Iris lilies, how are things in your hood?

[gimmethesimplelife]

Witness saw the cop. His name has not been released.

Thanks for the update here. I read that the cop involved has been placed on administrative leave - with or without pay I don't know. But yup, no name out there just yet. Rob

[bae]

We don't know all the facts just yet as Bae has said.

In our system of justice, how are "facts" in these circumstances determined?

[iris lilies]

My problem is not so much with the arrest actually but with the use of excessive force and the witnesses to this.....Excessive force to me equals huge lawsuits and these reporters are probably well connected being from the Huffington and Washington Posts.....Were I the police chief I'd be with the city attorney right now trying to piece together an out of court settlement - but I also believe Bae has a point. The authorities do have the right to state their case and it would be great if more witnesses would step forward, perhaps on social media. We don't know all the facts just yet as Bae has said. It is even possible that I may end out changing my mind on this - though from what I'm seeing at the moment, not happening. The problem for Ferguson is how many people there would agree with me and how far will they go? And will the police use excessive force again - don't they get that any move they make at this point will go viral due to the Internet? I'm not seeing that level of basic common sense on their part here at all. Rob

The Huff Po reporter and his buddy from the Washington Post will not let this lie, and they are already crying "excessive force."

It's impossible to know if excessive force is being used. Last night a police officer shot a man in the riot area, a man who pulled a gun on him. That doesn't seem excessive to me. A local news reporter is whining because she got teargas in her face, as are some residents who were standing on their front porch. Well yeah, the wind blows it your way, you are going to get some in your face. But "being teargassed on my front porch" is now a story. Yet doesn't sound excessive to me.

But the facts will come out.

edited to make sense

[gimmethesimplelife]

It's impossible to know, but it doesn't sound like the Huff Po reporter and his buddy from the Washington Post will let this lie, and they are already crying "excessive force."

It's impossible to know is excessive force is being used. Last night a police officer shot a man in the riot area, a man who pulled a gun on him. That doesn't seem excessive to me. A local news reporter is whining because she got teargas in her face, as are some residents who were standing on their front porch. Well yeah, the wind blows it your way, you are going to get some in your face. But "being teargassed on my front porch" is now a story.

But the facts will come out.

Admittedly, I was not there. I am only going on what I am reading online and yes where I tend to go for my news does have a liberal slant. Based on what I have read, I'd better not get on that jury lol! To me so far it is clear cut excessive force - Huffpost went so far as to call it "assault". There is a naïve part of me that wants to believe the police are not that stupid if such took place.....don't they know they are in effect creating a dialing for dollars/never have to work again scenario by such actions? But I would still agree we need more people to come forward and more of both sides of the story. Who knows, maybe someone has all this captured on smartphone video and is holding out for maximum dollar for it? Wouldn't surprise me at all.

My overall take is that this situation outside St Louis is not going to die down soon - it's like a powderkeg and any little thing could set it off. Rob

Came back to add two things - A. Good for them for not letting it lie and die quietly, and B. Throwing someone against a countertop at a fast food restaurant because they did not pack up and leave fast enough in an area that is this unstable - were it me, I'd see a new life in Canada and a nice condo in Vancouver in my future after the drawn out lawsuit settlement. But this is just me. My real point here - most would sue these days I believe. I would feel morally compelled to beyond the money as if I chose not to, this is just the same as saying it's OK for the police to behave this way again in the next similar situation. I would not want to live with that. Rob

Came back to further add - your first example? I don't believe it's excessive force for a cop to shoot someone who pulls a gun on him/her. But teargassed on your front porch? I don't know.....that to me is excessive if there was no clear cut warning to vacate as teargas was being used and also a warning of how much of an area the teargas would impact. I'm going to vote excessive on your second example. Rob

[dmc]

Maybe it would be better if the police just left the area. See what happens then.

[pinkytoe]

Regarding the initial shooting incident, seems like cops all over are over-reacting in many cases. We have had multiple incidents in our city of cops shooting and or killing young black men - justified or not. Most often, the city has to settle via lawsuit to the victim's family but the episodes just keep happening. We just don't have a very large African-American population here to rise up and protest but if these things keep happening...

[gimmethesimplelife]

Regarding the initial shooting incident, seems like cops all over are over-reacting in many cases. We have had multiple incidents in our city of cops shooting and or killing young black men - justified or not. Most often, the city has to settle via lawsuit to the victim's family but the episodes just keep happening. We just don't have a very large African-American population here to rise up and protest but if these things keep happening...

It really does seem to me that the police are growing more and more out of control. Witness the publicity about the recent police killings in Albuquerque, for example. In Phoenix this type of police hostility seems to be directed more towards Hispanics, but it had not reached these kinds of levels, knock on wood. Given that I live in a lower income Hispanic area, I know when I see a police car coming these days I feel fear and instant distrust. I doubt at this point this will ever go away. I do believe there must be some good cops out there - the problem is that more and more our rights have been eroded away and it seems this has attracted a different kind of police officer and encouraged over the top police behaviors. I really don't see how what is going on in Ferguson is much different from what is going on in Caracas, though in Venezuela the numbers of dead are much higher as are the cases of police harassment. But the basis have third world stamped all over them to me. Rob

[iris lily]

... were it me, I'd see a new life in Canada and a nice condo in Vancouver in my future after the drawn out lawsuit settlement.

Oy vey.

My real point here - most would sue these days I believe. I would feel morally compelled to beyond the money as if I chose not to, this is just the same as saying it's OK for the police to behave this way again in the next similar situation. I would not want to live with that. Rob

Well, at least your life would finally be worth something in Amerikkka, financed again and as always by the taxpayers. Score!

Curious to know why you'd skip off to Vancouver rather than the beloved Mexico, but I guess that's a different thread.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Oy vey.



Well, at least your life would finally be worth something in Amerikkka, financed again and as always by the taxpayers. Score!

Curious to know why you'd skip off to Vancouver rather than the beloved Mexico, but I guess that's a different thread.

Hi IL...couple of questions for you......I don't understand the "financed by the taxpayers" line - at least in the sense of if the police were not breaking the law there would be no possibility of a huge settlement. Cause and effect here. Treat me like those reporters were treated, break the law like that, I or anyone else would be a FOOL not to sue and also for reasons beyond mere money. Why Canada you ask? Canada used to have an immigration program whereby if you had a lot of money - the kind of money such a lawsuit could generate - they'd let you in as an investor class - I forget the name of the immigration class but it had to do with your having lots of resources. Shatter my rights like that, you can't expect everyone to stay in the United States after that. Many will, true, but some will take the money and run and try their luck elsewhere. What's so wrong about that? If the police hadn't of done what it seems they had done, once again the lawsuit to finance this would not be taking place. I'd be pointing the finger at the cops for causing situations where people can realistically cash in.

Why the free pass for the cops but not for those seeking settlements based on usage of excessive force? Why not use such lawsuits as a way to keep the police in line and teach others that litigation is perhaps a good way to accomplish this - provided it's successful. It's not the fault of the reporters yesterday in my book that the police went far far far over the line.....if there's no lawsuit, what's to stop them from going even further over the line next time, and if any of us were in that situation and did not go for the settlement, wouldn't WE also be partly guilty for condoning this police behavior via non-action? The police here are really going too far, and I don't see any other means to reign it in other than litigation. Rob

Came back to add - I really don't like it that Obama hasn't really tried to handle this one yet.....This is such a powderkeg and what is our President doing about it at the moment? Rob

Came back to add further - apparently the plot seems to be thickening. It seems as if a Democratic State Senator in Missouri named Maria Chapelle Nadal was among those gassed recently and bless her, she's had no issues at all it seems with taking it to the press and with being critical of police response in Ferguson. Points she's making include that she was peaceful and that she's not a troublemaker - she's a state Senator. Also I'm reading that there's mounting pressure to release the name of the officer involved in the first incident and the authorities refuse to cave. Ouch. Not very bright on their part - anything could set this powder keg off and there seem to be those very angry that the name has not yet been released.....why do the police insist on ratcheting up the tension? What's in it for them, realistically? Rob

[bae]

Rob - Vancouver, a couple years ago when I stepped out of a concert:





You might want to try Mexico, I hear the police there are very friendly and honest.