Iris lilies, how are things in your hood?

[Tradd]

So, Rob, you've made it very clear that your fear and utter contempt of the police are such that you will likely not call.them for anything. I hope you never see a child being abducted or something of similar horrible magnitude. YOUR fear/contempt of cops is such that it sounds to.me like you would just turn a blind eye and leave someone in terrible trouble so YOU don't have to deal with the cops at all.

You talk about wanting to help others in your community, but it.sounds like your.attitude would likely have the opposite effect. Would you really like to.tell the family members of a victim of a horrible.crime that you could have called but didn't because you didn't want to.invite the man into your life?

I'm going to say this once:

Dude, man up! Quit playing the victim. Or is that simply a.foreign concept to you? Do you actually do things to help.in your community or are you all talk?

[bae]

Rob,

I haven't seen anyone in this thread claim that police brutality and abuse of power don't exist in this country.

I *have* seen people ask that we follow due process, rule of law, and don't rush to mob justice.

The only person I have seen arguing the position of "all cops are bad, fear them, because I saw a bad thing once" is you.

I've seen people do horrible horrible things. I don't judge and condemn all other people who share characteristics with them. That's prejudice. I saw a black man beat and rob someone once, do I as a result fear all black men? If I did, what would that make me?

I think you are suffering from some sort of PTSD from the horror of the incident you witnessed, and need to talk to someone about it, instead of hiding under a rock gleefully looking forward to lawsuits and bloody uprisings.

[Gregg]

I occasionally try to help out a group that develops, or more appropriately raises the visibility of safe havens. A large number of the folks who do more there than I do are police officers. That is part of my experience with cops. Another part is from when I got pulled over for speeding. The cop was polite, respectful, professional. I can't say I was happy about the incident, but have no reason to malign the force based on his behavior. Is there any thing I have seen that would convince me that a vast majority of cops are behaving in a manner that is diametrically opposed to my experience? Nope. A few are. Those few need to be weeded out in the same legal and civilized fashion that poor teachers or doctors are. If we resort to vigilante justice and kangaroo courts we're no better than those we condemn.

[gimmethesimplelife]

So, Rob, you've made it very clear that your fear and utter contempt of the police are such that you will likely not call.them for anything. I hope you never see a child being abducted or something of similar horrible magnitude. YOUR fear/contempt of cops is such that it sounds to.me like you would just turn a blind eye and leave someone in terrible trouble so YOU don't have to deal with the cops at all.

You talk about wanting to help others in your community, but it.sounds like your.attitude would likely have the opposite effect. Would you really like to.tell the family members of a victim of a horrible.crime that you could have called but didn't because you didn't want to.invite the man into your life?

I'm going to say this once:

Dude, man up! Quit playing the victim. Or is that simply a.foreign concept to you? Do you actually do things to help.in your community or are you all talk?

I have manned up. I have made the only logical choice based on what I have seen and experienced. Had you witnessed the police brutality incident I had, might your views on the police be just a tad different? Perhaps? I've manned up in the sense that I don't trust them and don't want anything to do with them until such a date as they don't get a free pass to behave as if above the law until taken down via litigation. Until such a date that I don't have to live in fear of being assaulted by the police for no legal reason, I have manned up by making the only sane and logical choice I certainly don't mind sharing my views with others lol - as you can see over this 70 plus pages.

Here and now I will grant that not all cops are bad. I'm sure there are decent ones, too - folks I'm not ashamed of America for that they get a pension when most are not worth this any more - as it is hard work, I won't deny that. Only problem is, in lower income neighborhoods - please note this as no one seems to want to wrap their heads around this - you really are rolling the dice as to what kind of cop you get and if they are going to escalate/attack/brutally and illegally assault you in some way. If I want to roll the dice, I'll man up by rolling the dice in Vegas or at one of the casinos scattered around the edges of Phoenix - I won't roll the dice taking the risk of illegal police misconduct that could see me dead or seriously injured at a local hospital for no legal reason. In short, as a man, I have made the only choice. There is no victim playing here - I am making a conscious effort NOT TO BE A VICTIM. I also man up by always carrying a smartphone with me at all times with video and audio capabilities - you never know when it might come in useful against the police, or even to help someone else attacked by the police in their retaliatory lawsuit.

I will say however I'm glad I'm the only one here who has experienced such evil.....Experience this and I bet you'll never see the police the same way again. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob,

I haven't seen anyone in this thread claim that police brutality and abuse of power don't exist in this country.

I *have* seen people ask that we follow due process, rule of law, and don't rush to mob justice.

The only person I have seen arguing the position of "all cops are bad, fear them, because I saw a bad thing once" is you.

I've seen people do horrible horrible things. I don't judge and condemn all other people who share characteristics with them. That's prejudice. I saw a black man beat and rob someone once, do I as a result fear all black men? If I did, what would that make me?

I think you are suffering from some sort of PTSD from the horror of the incident you witnessed, and need to talk to someone about it, instead of hiding under a rock gleefully looking forward to lawsuits and bloody uprisings.

Bae, I say this with no sarcasm. You surprise me here, but in a very good way. In this 70 plus pages this is the first time I have noted considering that the police might engage in misconduct. Thank You, I really appreciate the mention of the possibility. I can't speak for you as I don't know you, ok? I'm guessing (? and I could be wrong here?) as I posted in response to Tradd - had you witnessed what I have, your views on the police might just be a tad different? And every brutality incident that came along after that might only serve to solidify your views?

Here's a big point I am trying to make here. My opinions here really are not all that relevant - what DOES matter is there is a sizable subset of the US population that feels and thinks the same way as I do. I live in a large inner city neighborhood of such people - no one here trusts the police or wants anything at all to do with them - we don't even want them speaking at our neighborhood meetings and have turned down their offers of speaking at such, so as not to lose participants and so as to have more folks on the Block Watch. And yes I do see the irony in what I just typed but it's true nonetheless. When a day comes that I can walk home from the bus stop down the street, about 1/2 mile away from where I live, at 10 PM on a Wednesday night after having stayed to close at the Phoenix Art Museum (they are open late every Wednesday) without living in fear of being attacked, assaulted, or hassled in some way illegally by the police, then I will post differently. To date, that day has not yet arrived and I hand out no trust or free passes to anyone in a police uniform. They have not earned my trust - in fact, they have earned my fear and distrust. Why it should be surprising that I'd post as I do given the givens, I don't understand but as they say in Spanish - Asi es la vida. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I occasionally try to help out a group that develops, or more appropriately raises the visibility of safe havens. A large number of the folks who do more there than I do are police officers. That is part of my experience with cops. Another part is from when I got pulled over for speeding. The cop was polite, respectful, professional. I can't say I was happy about the incident, but have no reason to malign the force based on his behavior. Is there any thing I have seen that would convince me that a vast majority of cops are behaving in a manner that is diametrically opposed to my experience? Nope. A few are. Those few need to be weeded out in the same legal and civilized fashion that poor teachers or doctors are. If we resort to vigilante justice and kangaroo courts we're no better than those we condemn.

Part of my stance may be due in part to the fact that I live in the inner city very close in to downtown - it seems to me the tendency here is to use excessive force and ask questions later as the belief seems to be that the cops are safe in doing so as people here can't afford to litigate. It warms my heart that my Guatemalan neighbors were able to successfully retaliate in court - they are considered heroes in the neighborhood and are very much looked up to for this. I feel fortunate living next door to them, I really do. In English you'd say my kind of people. But I digress. I do believe in "better" areas and in small towns you tend to get a different kind of cop as there would be more likely consequences for misbehavior and certainly more risk of litigation/negative publicity/job and pension loss. This is why I feel so much joy when people sue the police in legit cases of brutality/misconduct/excessive force - it's the people's way of fighting back and in a way that really does hurt. Rob

[flowerseverywhere]

Rob, I am really sorry I asked my question. I am mixed race and was raised in foster care. I have seen my share of bad people. I know that those entrusted to protect the innocent can run amok. I do not think anyone has disagreed that authority figures can abuse their office. Police brutality, politicians who put their own financial interests above their constituents, sex abuse by priests...only a sampling of those who have power who abuse it. But they are the ones we hear about. Not the majority who are good people who are only trying to raise a family, contribute to their community and make the world a better place.
I owe my life to a neighbor who had the courage to call the police who removed us from a house where we surely could have been killed. This was back in the days when parents were allowed to "discipline" their kids. I would never turn my back on someone who was being robbed or raped to protect myself. My life experience has made me fearless.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob, I am really sorry I asked my question. I am mixed race and was raised in foster care. I have seen my share of bad people. I know that those entrusted to protect the innocent can run amok. I do not think anyone has disagreed that authority figures can abuse their office. Police brutality, politicians who put their own financial interests above their constituents, sex abuse by priests...only a sampling of those who have power who abuse it. But they are the ones we hear about. Not the majority who are good people who are only trying to raise a family, contribute to their community and make the world a better place.
I owe my life to a neighbor who had the courage to call the police who removed us from a house where we surely could have been killed. This was back in the days when parents were allowed to "discipline" their kids. I would never turn my back on someone who was being robbed or raped to protect myself. My life experience has made me fearless.

You say you are sorry you asked your question. Would you be surprised if I said I am saddened by this? I am. I am saddened by this and I am also saddened by the fact that society has slid to the point where I have made the decisions I have (based on my experiences) as a way to lessen the chances of becoming a victim. That's really sad, too. Both examples here are sad and I wish I could just wave a magic wand and make it all go away. I would if I could. I don't have any answers other than awareness and distrust and standing up against the police when they cross the line - not answers that you wanted to hear I wager and not answers that are going to fix the underlying problem, either. I am aware of that. I am of the opinion that it is unlikely the underlying problems with the police will be fixed any time soon if ever at all - at least as far as their relations with disadvantage segments of society go - it is pathetic to live in such an overall wealthy country and be confronted with these issues and these decisions, it really is.

BTW, I admire your fearlessness. I really do. I take my hat (and I often do wear a hat) off to you. My take however is that the police are supposed ( in theory, anyway) to protect and serve, not terrorize and cause fear. Faced with the latter, I don't know how anyone could question my thought process and my take on this issue. But still - more power to you for being fearless - I'm afraid I'm not equal to this. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Well, here's some good news. In an unrelated case, in California, an African American woman who was punched repeatedly by an officer settled for 1.5 million dollars and the officer's agreement to resign. After reading of this case on yahoo.com/news today, I think lady involved settled too cheaply - I would have gunned for 50 million personally, and not for the money but to inspire others to do the same to do lasting economic damage - but at least she got publicity, she did get a large settlement, and more people know they can retaliate against the police with possible large paydays. This truly warms my heart. Rob

[bae]

... to do lasting economic damage -... This truly warms my heart. Rob

Lasting economic damage....

Did you take Econ 101? Who pays that settlement? Where do they ultimately get that money from?

What's the nexus between the $50 million figure you pulled out of your...hat, and direct influence over the behavior of an individual officer?

I'd rather see the officer thrown into prison for assault/battery if that's what he indeed did, pour encourager les autres.