The Future of Money and Historical Perspective

[dmc]

And how is Bitcoin and other digital currency's stable? What is backing them? I'll take a wait and see approach at this time and keep my dollars.

[ApatheticNoMore]

And what's to guarantee some other digital currency doesn't take the market from bitcoin?

I think I'll stay out of that market as well, though if I was to get in it wouldn't be 5% of my income (yikes) maybe more like 1%, 2% at max - because that's the most I'd consider "play money" as far as investment goes. Because I don't entirely know what to make of it but it seems a lot of smart people have raised their doubts about bitcoin.

Bitcoin seems based on a Ponzi scheme to me too, where everything depends on getting in first, hardly the most ethical monetary scheme in my view (but more or less ethical than the dollar? gah, I don't know! I'm not a fan of the empire either).

[jp1]

And how is Bitcoin and other digital currency's stable? What is backing them? I'll take a wait and see approach at this time and keep my dollars.

The context of stable I meant is simply that the quantity can't be expanded endlessly. Once 23 million, or whatever the number is, have been mined, that's it. After that, assuming that adoption of it for usage continues to grow, the value of each coin will grow in value due to their relative scarcity, as compared to the ever declining value of dollars due to their ever growing quantity.

[jp1]

And what's to guarantee some other digital currency doesn't take the market from bitcoin?

I think I'll stay out of that market as well, though if I was to get in it wouldn't be 5% of my income (yikes) maybe more like 1%, 2% at max - because that's the most I'd consider "play money" as far as investment goes. Because I don't entirely know what to make of it but it seems a lot of smart people have raised their doubts about bitcoin.

Bitcoin seems based on a Ponzi scheme to me too, where everything depends on getting in first, hardly the most ethical monetary scheme in my view (but more or less ethical than the dollar? gah, I don't know! I'm not a fan of the empire either).

It's certainly possible that some other digital currency might become more popular, or equally likely, that several digital currencies could coexist at the same time at a floating exchange rate no different from the way national currencies current float, except without central banks trying to constantly devalue them in an attempt to make exports more desirable even though it also makes saver residents poorer at the same time.

Over time the value of bitcoin, assuming that it becomes ever more widely adopted, will continue to go up because the same amount will be used to purchase more and more goods. Getting in early isn't really a necessity unless one's goal is only to get rich by speculating on them.

[Xmac]

The reason renewable energy is big in Germany is because they have an overly generous government subsidy, the feed in tarriff system, that promotes it. And you picked an odd example-- the German economy is very reliant on financing from big banks.

Yup, I withdraw it.
It's also about their strong manufacturing base...to give any example in what was basically a hypothetical was a mistake on my part because there are just a handful of countries that do not have central bank systems and there is myriad of factors involved.

I still say that the system makes all kinds of difficulties larger, whether for the planet or the people. We already know what we have hasn't worked, to say the least. The worst that could happen with Bitcoin is no worse than what we're facing globally now and the upside potential is so much higher.

[Xmac]

And what's to guarantee some other digital currency doesn't take the market from bitcoin?

Then good. Let the masses decide. I much more interested in the idea of the block chain and decentralization. It doesn't necessarily have to be one currency either. On average, one new cryptocurrency is launched everyday. Most will fail or not gain widespread adoption but some will and they have very interesting features.

I think I'll stay out of that market as well, though if I was to get in it wouldn't be 5% of my income (yikes) maybe more like 1%, 2% at max - because that's the most I'd consider "play money" as far as investment goes. Because I don't entirely know what to make of it but it seems a lot of smart people have raised their doubts about bitcoin.

I believe I said (or at least meant) disposable income.
I've waited to hear, and looked around for, a solid reason against it, but I haven't found one that holds up to scrutiny. The smart people that I hear against it are either don't understand it and/or are threatened by it.

Bitcoin seems based on a Ponzi scheme to me too, where everything depends on getting in first, hardly the most ethical monetary scheme in my view (but more or less ethical than the dollar? gah, I don't know! I'm not a fan of the empire either).

If you invested money into the internet when the media was saying it was going to be a den of thieves, prostitutes, terrorists and child pornographers et al, and nobody else would touch it, then I'd say you ought to be rewarded for your prescience. Early adopters made money, BUT, focusing on its price totally misses the boat AND focusing on just the currency still misses the greatness of the innovation.

I recommend to everyone to just take a deep breath and with an open mind search more videos with Andreas Antonopolous, especially the earlier ones. He understands it deeply and communicates it to the layman very effectively.

If you dig into this a bit you'll see that almost everyone who first came across it dismissed it, including Andreas A. If you listen to mainstream media, you will not understand it. You will hear nonsense, distractions or half truths.

This thing has crashed at least a couple times and keeps coming back. Since when do Ponzi schemes do that?

[ToomuchStuff]

It's superiority is in its potential, velocity, open ledger and advanced security.

Presently, the military can attack countries that openly stop using the dollar. It is ineffective, however, for stopping individuals and companies from using Bitcoin, assuming the companies have state of the art security.

Silk Road, an underground website that was known for selling and buying anything, was shut down by government authorities and in just a few months, Silk Road 2.0 was launched. Then, that was shut down and 3.0 was up in a day...or two?

But that's not the end of it. Open Bazaar will make any interference impossible because it is an open source market place, which, being de-centralized makes it impossible to shut down.

So, the military won't play much of a role, if any, in enforcing the dollar or stopping Bitcoin.

Bitcoin's traceability is questionable at best (anything electronic can be manipulated). Mt Gox ring a bell? (still haven't recovered peoples money and the place is out of business, so hard to go after)
Also anything webbased is subject to needing access (which can be hacked or traffic shut down as Korea was recently). That isn't to say there isn't other tech out there, to mirror bits (think of Echelon and such), physical seizure, lack of regulation etc. The goverment seized all the Silk Road bitcoins (we discussed that before) and can seize any property (property is NOT innocent until proven guilty), let alone they haven't decided on how they want to deal with it from a tax perspective.
And it has the same problem as ANYTHING that one wants to use as currency, both parties need to accept and believe in it.

[Xmac]

Bitcoin's traceability is questionable at best (anything electronic can be manipulated).

"Traceability is questionable". ???

Mt Gox ring a bell? (still haven't recovered peoples money and the place is out of business, so hard to go after)

How is that different than cash? And other currencies?
Have credit card companies fixed fraud and identity theft in that antiquated system?

Likening Mt Gox to Bitcoin is like likening a bank with shoddy security to the dollar and shows a profound misunderstanding of what Bitcoin is.

Also anything webbased is subject to needing access (which can be hacked or traffic shut down as Korea was recently).

Websites can be hacked, and will be hacked, the de-centralized network that Bitcoin uses has had many hacking attempts, to which none has prevailed and it has only served to make the network more resilient against attack.

One tiny communist country 'shutting down traffic' TEMPORARILY is a mere hiccup as it will be in the future. These shut downs can be easily worked around and you would know that if you watched the video.

That isn't to say there isn't other tech out there, to mirror bits (think of Echelon and such), physical seizure, lack of regulation etc. The goverment seized all the Silk Road bitcoins and can seize any property let alone they haven't decided on how they want to deal with it from a tax perspective.

If you don't have the keys, you don't get the Bitcoin. If people haven't been careful with the keys, which is to be expected with a new technology, they will learn digital security the hard way.

Governmental entities are not able to seize Bitcoin which is properly made secure. They can seize bodies which can be manipulated to give up keys, but governments that do this regularly, as a matter of policy, will expose their own tyranny, usage will become more stealth/underground and the larger Bitcoin commerce will move elsewhere in the world to develop and thrive.

And it has the same problem as ANYTHING that one wants to use as currency, both parties need to accept and believe in it.

That is not a problem to the millions exchanging it now all over the world.

Your statement demonstrates what I've been saying: anything has value and utility as a currency when there is agreement to use and hold it as such. That "problem" is quietly solving itself everyday as startups are launched, adoption spreads and usage grows.

California just passed a law making Bitcoin legal tender...BTW.

[bae]

http://www.businessinsider.com/bitco...ew-year-2015-1

"Bitcoin is under $300 for the first time since November of 2013. It's down ~16% to start 2015."

[Packy]

I tell you what---let you kids in on a little secret, just because you're my friends---I got my money tied up in Martian Real Estate. I always figure---Buy on the edge of town, and wait. It'll go up in Value.