there is part of this that is lonely huh

[ApatheticNoMore]

Yesterday this story occurs to me, and I realize that there is no fairness on this earth, or maybe there is, but it is much, much bigger than my ability to perceive it. I.e. there are all sorts of things going on and all sorts of karma being worked out and all sorts of grace being freely given and I am not God or the judge and that is just the way it is. This friend is always going to have more money than I, even though he is not working a day in his life and never cleaned up his act.

yes there is no fairness and virtue is it's own reward and sometimes the only reward, and maybe the reward is just one doesn't want to carry around unnecessary conscious and subconscious guilt (we're so sure we can repress it. But that may not be the case. Sociopaths exempted of course!). And not carrying it around means greater possibilities for contentment.

Guilt is a tricky one of course as it can be taken way too far unnecessarily if one was raised guilty, but taken less far it is merely a desire to live congruent with oneself, as is possible for one's imperfect self in a very very very flawed society (that most will end up making some compromises to live in). I'm speaking mostly of environmental ethics in this context, of course.

[JaneV2.0]

Your living lightly on the earth is more likely to influence others if you just go about doing it quietly and serve as a good example. (Frankly, I think the earth will go along just fine no matter what we do--people, not so much.) It's more important to maintain loving relationships than to always be right, IMO.

Your mother brings hearty protein dishes because she's concerned for you--my mother always told us, if we seemed peckish or depressed, to "have a nice steak." I've never liked steak, but it turns out she was right about its nutrient profile, and I make it a point to eat plenty of red meat, as I tend toward anemia. She's probably not going to change, so just continue to send food gifts home with your kids.

Appreciate your friend for who she is, be supportive as necessary, offer advice if she asks for it, that kind of thing. Simmering resentment is corrosive--to you, not to her. She'll probably be fine.

The important thing here is that your son had a happy birthday, and it sounds like he did.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Your living lightly on the earth is more likely to influence others if you just go about doing it quietly and serve as a good example. (Frankly, I think the earth will go along just fine no matter what we do--people, not so much.)

some examples are loud and they can make an impression. But obviously guilt tripping lectures probably won't. The earth may survive, but life on earth who knows. How tough are those cockroaches anyway? (Yes I'm known for my optimism /sarc) The universe will survive but whether or not there is other life in it beyond this planet, who knows (I'd tend to think there must be somewhere, but I do not know so.).

Wasteful consumerism far beyond what I would do makes me angry, genuinely angry. But am I perfect?

Suppose one grew up in a family with some atypical nuttiness. One would probably see this for a long time as normal, and one might find it hard to change, and changing it might even feel like one was betraying one's family, etc.. Ok therapy issues or whatever. But what if instead your whole society ... teaches you to be a certain way (wasteful, consumerist, etc.)? Where does one learn to undo that? And even if it's not all of one's current society (who one currently spends time with), it is afterall probably to some degree how one was raised!

[Zoe Girl]

I think the point is that I thought we (my friend and I) had a connection in this area, and connections (as an INFJ) are very valuable to me. We have talked over the years on many issues, she is not as interested in the environmental concerns as I am so I have never had the expectation that she would use reusable bags or eat vegetarian or a lot of other things that I feel strongly about. That is fine, she absolutely does not need to do these things or feel bad for it or be influenced by me. However we have talked a lot about financial sustainability and simple living topics. She works in a mortgage industry with the foreclosure department and we have had many conversations when she sees the financial statements of people not paying their mortgage and fighting foreclosure yet they still have large cell phone and cable and car loan bills. So that is where I get disconnected. She did say today when we talked that she thinks it is important for kids to have bills when they start working, the boys will be paying cell phone and car insurance in addition to the car loan. I am just concerned because there is a difference between a bill and a debt.

As for my mom, I may come and blow off steam now and then. She has improved and I am trying to pay more attention to that. I think any more directing her spending would just be confusing. She is not going to stop, that is just not possible, it is internal for her but also heavily culturally supported to be honest. This is what people in her group and with her sisters do. I probably get more upset about this because being upset about the drinking is something I am clear that I have no power over. I will say the functional alcoholism of my parents is a big factor in having these honest conversations, sometimes my mom doesn't remember the conversations or just blows them off. But until she drives impaired or needs help I am out of the realm of acting.

[kib]

I think underneath it, we want to bond. We want someone to agree with our ideas and behaviors, sympathize with us, make us feel less alone with our problems, admire our fortitude in the face of difficulty. It gets exhausting when the people around us seem to really need this reassurance and we don't agree, we don't precisely sympathize, because we can see how behavior we question has led Our People down the wrong roads. It can also be hurtful - and make us question ourselves - to be on the needing end of this bonding and feel like everyone we speak to has a solution to our problems that doesn't honor our values or acknowledge the difficulty of our lives.

Last week in a disagreeing situation, a political discussion, I said, "well, your pov is definitely more generous than mine!" The person on the other end heard a compliment and a little apology about my attitude (even though I wasn't actually giving one, generosity was the last thing I advocated in this particular situation), and that seemed to soothe her, we moved on to greener pastures.

Finding and giving love and kindness without losing your boundaries can be the hardest thing on earth. Breathe, breathe, breathe.

[Tammy]

You can only control yourself. Good thing to remember on those kinds of days.

[Zoe Girl]

wow, talk about a weird thing here. i went to my meditation group tonight, we are a unique group but i want my anonymity so i won't name us. the facilitator was talking to a friend she hadn't seen in a long time so the conversation was cars and finding the right location when someone got a new car and they didn't recognize it in the parking lot. turns out i was in the company of 2 people who have never had car loans! the one guy has a volvo with 320,00 miles, my subaru has 270,000. so i felt like i had some people with this in common and i felt so much better. at least like when something comes up with my car not everyone is just looking at me frustrated that i haven't just bought a new car already! the facilitator is in the same study group i am so we do 5 am phone calls, study groups, retreats, and support our teacher together. so we do share rides and make arrangements to deliver things to our teacher over an hour away (our teacher is an alms mendicant buddhist nun, she doesn't drive). it was a nice revelation to find out she bought her car for $4k cash.

[sweetana3]

One of my Honda's almost made it to 200,000. I was so proud of that little car and was planning on keeping it forever. It was almost crushed by an 18 wheeler but saved the life of my husband. Will always remember that car with love. Donated its remains so a small amount served our local public tv channel.

[Radicchio]

Maybe it would help to think about how your mom and friend are feeling. They undoubtedly feel their choices are valid and may feel a bit frustrated and lonely, too. Try to focus on the things you have in common, not your differences. You're never going to get support for all of your choices and preferences from them, and they will never get it from you. So just appreciate them for their good qualities or whatever it is that ties you together.