Pizza Place Closes On Account Of Harrassment....

[Gregg]

And no, unfortunately, 'the market' won't control these bigots. It won't shut them down, That is a bogus meme put forth by the very bigots who desperately want these laws.

This is one example where I think the market really could ultimately work things out. It will not eliminate the extreme wingtips, right or left, but it will very likely create a comfortable buffer for 99% of us that reside in the middle. Utopia simply doesn't exist and can't be created through force, but society can continue to evolve to give the most people the best opportunity with the least amount of interference from outside.

As a business owner I never felt that anyone simply had a right to my goods and services. I knew there were people in the world that I did not want to, and frankly would not have interacted with. If a group of Nazi skinheads would have come knocking I would have found a polite way to let them know they were in the wrong place. That is one kind of market pressure. A group like that would have a hard time finding vendors to work with and when they eventually did the odds are it would be in a place that very few people with the opposite sensibility would want to be. On the other side of market forces, we had a long list of gay clients who were acutely aware of the experience other gay clients had working with our company. It was probably never the final factor in getting ink on a contract, but it was certainly a reason we were invited to make a presentation. A lot of companies who were more limited in their customer scope came and went while we were in business. Just sayin...

[Gregg]

Let's be clear on this point...

If the pizza baker refuses to comply, and continues to refuse, and resists attempts to force him, at some point men in uniforms with guns will arrive on his property, and shoot him dead.

Yes. In a nut shell that is exactly what will eventually end up happening. Anyone who doesn't think so isn't paying attention.

[gimmethesimplelife]

This is one example where I think the market really could ultimately work things out. It will not eliminate the extreme wingtips, right or left, but it will very likely create a comfortable buffer for 99% of us that reside in the middle. Utopia simply doesn't exist and can't be created through force, but society can continue to evolve to give the most people the best opportunity with the least amount of interference from outside.

As a business owner I never felt that anyone simply had a right to my goods and services. I knew there were people in the world that I did not want to, and frankly would not have interacted with. If a group of Nazi skinheads would have come knocking I would have found a polite way to let them know they were in the wrong place. That is one kind of market pressure. A group like that would have a hard time finding vendors to work with and when they eventually did the odds are it would be in a place that very few people with the opposite sensibility would want to be. On the other side of market forces, we had a long list of gay clients who were acutely aware of the experience other gay clients had working with our company. It was probably never the final factor in getting ink on a contract, but it was certainly a reason we were invited to make a presentation. A lot of companies who were more limited in their customer scope came and went while we were in business. Just sayin...

Greg, with all due respect, 99% of us don't reside in the middle, especially after 2008 and the meltdown and the ramped up erosion of what was left of America's middle class. There may be 99% wishing to belong to and wishing to identify with the middle class, but people all around America fall out of it every day due to job loss and if they are over 40, the lesser chance of matching prior salaries once again. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Our friends with a lovey B & B Inn started doing weddings but the male owner joked "we can't do gay weddings--we aren't that high end." He is kidding, of course.

All of the gay weddings that have been taking place among our friends this year have been nice, sensible, low key affairs. Men do not make good bridezillas.

What a true to life post! My wedding will be exactly like this - nice, sensible, and definitely low key. Rob

[bae]

Greg, with all due respect, 99% of us don't reside in the middle,

I think your math or observational skills need some assistance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

[ApatheticNoMore]

Greg, with all due respect, 99% of us don't reside in the middle, especially after 2008 and the meltdown and the ramped up erosion of what was left of America's middle class.

I think he meant in the middle politically. I don't think everyone was radicalized politically by job loss or something (and in which direction? unfortunately it can go either way ...)

[gimmethesimplelife]

I think your math or observational skills need some assistance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class

The high end of your post quotes 66% of households in the US being middle class. Let's give you the benefit of doubt and give the high end statistic. 99% minus 66% equals 34% not in the middle class. Surely you don't believe that all of the remaining 34% are upper middle class or above? Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I think he meant in the middle politically. I don't think everyone was radicalized politically by job loss or something (and in which direction? unfortunately it can go either way ...)

Fair enough.....if Greg meant in the middle way politically, my bad if I misinterpreted his meaning. Rob

[bae]

You said 99% aren't in the middle.

[ApatheticNoMore]

think a better understanding of conscientious objection may be in order. It is not selective, as it doesn't apply to a specific war, but rather to the overall objection to taking up arms against another person. During the Vietnam era, many applied for and received conscientious objector status due to their overall belief set. Others were denied because they objected to a specific military action, most of those migrated to Canada.

either are conscientious objection. Why isn't it an act of such to oppose a particular war or a type of war? Why couldn't one be morally opposed to such. Besides it seems a difficult thing to prove at 18 anyway (but, but I wrote a term paper vigorously declaring the pointlessness of war when I was 14!!!).

Maybe you should only be able to refuse pizzas if you are opposed to ALL weddings straight and gay. But yea laws aren't made to respect real conscientious objection by the powerless, as laws are made by those with some power (though the theocrats may be fighting a losing battle at this point, they still have some power some places). Those who really conscientious object to something often end up spending time in jail.

I do think the issue of businesses serving gays will probably resolve itself as it's the direction the culture is moving toward. People resist to prevent the culture from moving in a theocratic direction instead, because nothing is preordained, but I think odds are against it (but not that it can't happen).