Page 9 of 12 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 116

Thread: In a housing pickle. Thoughts? Ideas?

  1. #81
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    9,681
    I just see voting as futile, counterproductive, and a waste of time. So I would rather do something constructive.
    good men doing ineffective things, could also lead to the triumph of evil? That's way too broad a statement about voting though. Are direct referendums a waste of time? I definitely don't think so. Is the school board a waste of time? Not necessarily. But bought and paid politicians at high levels very well might be.

    Honestly what hurts me most is not that our rulers are evil, evil rulers, that's not exactly historically unique is it. And they rule by police state measures anyway. Not the they are the most oppressive measures there have ever been, they aren't. But that people often don't even see how evil are rulers are is what hurts me most. THAT is why I'm hopeless about the social and political situation.
    Trees don't grow on money

  2. #82
    Senior Member catherine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    15,607
    Quote Originally Posted by UltraliteAngler View Post
    I just see voting as futile, counterproductive, and a waste of time. So I would rather do something constructive.
    It takes no time for me to walk through my back yard to our polling station and vote. I almost always vote Democrat and DH almost always votes Republican, so we could save ourselves the time it takes to cancel out each others' votes and just stay home and watch Jeopardy. But, I still choose to exercise my right to vote because I can.
    "Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
    www.silententry.wordpress.com

  3. #83
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    10,216
    I am hopeless too. haha

    Go Team Hopeless!

  4. #84
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    2,758
    Quote Originally Posted by catherine View Post
    We're never going to have perfect. Perfect is the enemy of the good. If you are disappointed, perhaps your expectations were too high? Obama had some failures, but he had some solid successes. We all know there's no such thing as a Knight in Shining Armor in politics. But I'd rather have the the person with MY vision wearing the tarnished armor.
    that is a saying used in medicine, if you really think about it, it applies to a lot IRL. Agreed on the rest of your post, as well.

    I consider voting to be a privilege and it's your responsibility to inform yourself and use your vote wisely. If you don't vote, don't bitch and moan if someone horrible becomes President or member of Congress. Those stats on liberal leaning people who no longer vote, they just gave up, are scary. If enough come out and vote, change can happen. If we did the ethical thing of making voting easier, more impoverished and sick people would have the opportunity, if ballots accommodated citizens with ESL, more would vote, etc. I mean this for all voters, but I'm partial to the left, lol.

    Women didn't even have the right to vote 100 yrs ago, 50 years after black people got the vote. If suffragettes fought for 50 YEARS during a time when it was not easy for women to speak out, the very least I can do is vote. People die keeping this country free, if they are willing to do that, then I guess I can find 15 mins to vote, even if I am just choosing between the lesser of two evils, and I acknowledge this is often the case. And if you want bad asses, like the notorious RBG, to be Supreme Court Justice, well, that's initiated by the President and confirmed by your senators. I may sound totally naive, that's fine.

    Angler I am surprised that you don't vote, you seem to care very much about many issues. How can they be advanced if you don't vote? It's none of my business, but it does surprise me.

  5. #85
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    9,681
    If you don't vote for a THIRD PARTY candidate, don't bitch and moan if someone horrible becomes President or member of Congress!

    People may have fought for the vote but the oligarchs actually won that fight as they made voting (close to) irrelevant. It's a case of winning the battle and losing the war. Although I don't think it's accurate to describe most suffragettes as only be interested in the vote for it's own sake, since I think most of them had much larger agendas and wanted the vote for very specific reasons (like labor issues etc.).

    Angler I am surprised that you don't vote, you seem to care very much about many issues. How can they be advanced if you don't vote?
    just about any avenue would seem more promising. But the thing is if people insist on voting for a lesser evil or something, so be it, I don't actually see it as the worst thing in the world (though if they vote major party they will likely get someone horrible - but maybe slightly lesser horrible - although I think the evidence points to one party being better is very questionable. But since the game is rigged anyway I don't even blame the people for what they do there, vote lesser evil, vote 3rd party, or don't vote. 3rd party may be the best option but the game is rigged regardless). It's just when they start to believe the hype about the lesser evil not being evil and so on that I dislike. If voting does that to people, I don't like it at all!
    Trees don't grow on money

  6. #86
    Senior Member SteveinMN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Saint Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    6,618
    Quote Originally Posted by Kestra
    Twin Cities report. Have you been? It is so awesome here and I've only seen a little bit. Too bad I only have a day and a few hours here. I wasn't that serious when I mentioned it before, but now I am. The trees, the lakes - there are kayakers and canoers everywhere right in the city. And all the SLers. I am so getting a van within a few years so I can live throughout Minnesota, especially here.
    SSSSSHHHHHHH!!!!!1!!! You're gonna ruin it for those of us who've already discovered the place!

    It is a beautiful state -- well, most of it. Fortunately Minnesotans enjoy the outdoors enough -- year-round -- to believe tax money spent on preserving and maintaining lakes and parks and wildlife areas is not "wasteful government spending".

    I don't know about living in a van here, though. It does get cold in the winter. Even a mobile home is a little iffy when the air temperature outside is -15/-20* F. And, so far this year, we've had only a couple of days with a high above 90* F; usually there are 10-12 in an average summer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kestra
    Well, luckily you're already in Ohio, so you're used to some cold. I'm not sure how much of a difference there is. What helps in Winnipeg, and I've heard in Minneapolis is if you live downtown there are indoor walkways so you don't have to actually walk outside that much in the winter if you live and work in those areas. But there are of course benefits to not living in the core, and in the winter is it better to bus or drive? I hate transferring buses and also driving in the winter so I try to just live where it's one bus to most places.
    Winter's also great for practicing your stoicism techniques, which you might enjoy.
    Minneapolis, in particular, has an extensive skyway system. A woman I dated for a while lived at the north edge of downtown and worked at an office downtown. Even in the middle of winter, she could go to work without a coat (!). St. Paul's and Duluth's skyway systems are nowhere near as extensive. We just know to bundle up. It's a great market for Thinsulate and Polartec and GoreTex.

    As for riding the bus or driving, the main problem there is that the buses share the roads with the cars. If it's difficult for the cars to get around and they get stuck, the buses are stuck, too. There are some freeways here on which buses may drive on the shoulder -- assuming a stall or accident isn't blocking the shoulder. The light rail (primarily around Minneapolis) is a better bet because it's dedicated roadway. But it may not get you as close to your destination as the bus or a car (parked in a garage connected by a skyway). "One bus to most places" can work; some routes are so frequent and some transfer areas are indoors, that transferring may not be a big issue. Mass transit, though, is one area in which the Twin Cities could improve greatly, but the folks in the suburbs don't believe they'll ever see a benefit for it, so improvement is talked about far more than it's executed.
    Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. - Booker T. Washington

  7. #87
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    2,758
    Quote Originally Posted by ApatheticNoMore View Post
    If you don't vote for a THIRD PARTY candidate, don't bitch and moan if someone horrible becomes President or member of Congress!
    this is what I want more than anything and I keep not voting that way because I'm afraid to take the vote away from the Dems. In elections where NY seems to be leaning blue and the projections are good, then I vote 3rd party. Like Nader. But I don't see how to get one in office without a revolt or something, do you?

  8. #88
    Senior Member Ultralight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    10,216
    Disclaimer: Sarcasm on the way!

    Quote Originally Posted by freshstart View Post
    that is a saying used in medicine, if you really think about it, it applies to a lot IRL. Agreed on the rest of your post, as well.

    I consider voting to be a privilege and it's your responsibility to inform yourself and use your vote wisely. If you don't vote, don't bitch and moan if someone horrible becomes President or member of Congress. Those stats on liberal leaning people who no longer vote, they just gave up, are scary. If enough come out and vote, change can happen. If we did the ethical thing of making voting easier, more impoverished and sick people would have the opportunity, if ballots accommodated citizens with ESL, more would vote, etc. I mean this for all voters, but I'm partial to the left, lol.

    Women didn't even have the right to vote 100 yrs ago, 50 years after black people got the vote. If suffragettes fought for 50 YEARS during a time when it was not easy for women to speak out, the very least I can do is vote. People die keeping this country free, if they are willing to do that, then I guess I can find 15 mins to vote, even if I am just choosing between the lesser of two evils, and I acknowledge this is often the case. And if you want bad asses, like the notorious RBG, to be Supreme Court Justice, well, that's initiated by the President and confirmed by your senators. I may sound totally naive, that's fine.

    Angler I am surprised that you don't vote, you seem to care very much about many issues. How can they be advanced if you don't vote? It's none of my business, but it does surprise me.
    Ah yes... the "If you don't vote you can't complain" refrain. It is as old as the farce of democracy itself.

    Let me first quote my main man George Carlin: "The next time they give you all that civic bullshit about voting, keep in mind that Hitler was elected in a full, free democratic election."

    Then let me zing you with this: "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to eat for lunch." I am a lamb. You are a lamb. Why would you want this system?

    Okay, let me explain in my own words why I do not vote.

    1. I don't want to live in a hierarchy, why would I vote to keep one in place?
    2. I like to order off the menu. Apparently, you don't. The power elite give you a menu. It has two items on it. Then you say: "Better than not eating in a restaurant!" I'd rather eat at my neighborhood chili cook-off! Ya dig?
    3. What about the people all over the world that feel the effects of US policies? They did not vote. Can they complain?
    4. There are so, so many powerful positions in "our" government that people get appointed to. But you cannot complain about anything they do because you did not vote for them! Gotcha!
    4 and a half. "But the people I voted for appointed those un-elected power elites." Democracy in action! Enjoy!
    4 and three quarters. The people you voted against also get to appoint un-elected powerful positions because they often win. How you like that?
    5. I voted from 1998 through 2012. And every year the water, air, and soil has gotten more polluted. Wars kept happening. The healthcare "system" got worse. Corporations have gotten more power. Overall -- things got worse! My vote did nothing.
    6. Here is the real zinger. Voting functions nicely for those in power to, not only give you a false/very limited choice, but it also pushes the blame for everything back on you, the salt-of-the-earth, well-meaning voter. The president did not turn out the way you expected? Oh! You should have voted for someone else. You have no one to blame but yourself. Oh, you don't blame yourself? Maybe you can excuse yourself by saying: "I voted for the lesser of two evils." Congrats on that! Well done. Or...You can say: "Well, I guess we'll just have to elect someone better next time." Look back through history. That does not happen much. It is a trend downward, not upward.

    How many women voted for whichever candidate you did not like last presidential election? How many voted for the one you did like? Perfect system. Women vote in their best interest every time. So do men, oh wait... not really on either account.

    So you vote to honor women and black people? I thought you voted because you were civic-minded and wanted to select the next great leader of whatever.

    Oh... you vote because of all the people that died for voting? How does that make sense? Maybe if you stop voting then people will stop dying for voting.

    Here is how I think I can advance my causes: DIY. Learn to take care of yourself, your family, friends, and community without the government or its bosses (the corporations). Being a frugal minimalist means that corporations have fewer tethers on me. And even if nobody else lives this way, I still gain some freedom. If you were the only one to vote for the best candidate you get nothing. Which is a better way to see results?

    We need to create communities of resilience, not vote for evils of any extent.

  9. #89
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    9,681
    There may not be very good options to advance one's causes. But maybe better to admit that than pretend voting provides them.

    I try to support ethical alternatives as they emerge, more ethical ways of doing business etc.. Do I donate to political campaigns? No (though really I'm not going to fault someone too much if it's Sanders ). Do I donate to people trying to organize unions? Yes.

    Yes I've been to a few protests etc., though I'm not sure it does that much good either. Anyway I don't have problems with voting for direct democracy referendums (provided the votes aren't hacked). It's just believing that much hope lies with bought and paid for politicians. Continually trying a failed method to solve problems is one way to guarantee they won't get solved. And believing it solves anything is the nail in the coffin.

    Even ex-presidents don't believe the U.S. has a functioning democracy:
    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...ibery-20150731
    Trees don't grow on money

  10. #90
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    2,758
    ok, I hear your points, agree with some, except that nothing has changed, Obamacare may not be perfect but it is a gigantic leap forward. And I do not agree that I got "nothing from the best candidate", I got that and much, much more. My investments are rocking. He supports things I believe in, I am pretty content, I'm sorry you aren't. I can't say that about every candidate I voted for, because sometimes I was really voting party. You can say whatever you want about why I vote, that's fine, I will still always vote. I'm not stupid, I know the Koch brothers, super PACS, the 1%, corporations will never be stopped with my one lousy vote. The system sucks, it's a giant game played out by the elite. But I'm still voting, because sometimes you get a really good one, like Obama, IMHO and we creep slowly toward a country that I'd like to be in. If Congress had been dem majority, great things, IMO, could have been accomplished.

    I am not a frugal minimalist because how are you going to really create this community of resilience and no government? Friends and family taking care of each other, sounds good, utopian. Until one of you gets a mass in your brain (kinda like me). Was I supposed to "learn to take care of myself" and thus be able to saw that sucker outta there? I don't think so. Who amongst your frugal minimalist society happens to be a brain surgeon? Likely no one, I die, other people get sick, there is no healthcare system, more die or come to their senses and realize maybe some government is a good idea. You get old, do you really trust your community is going to provide your care? I wouldn't bank on that. You gain freedom, ok, but freedom from anything may not be so great. No police if you are robbed, beaten, killed. Your plan sounds good for you and others like you but do you honestly think your plan is sustainable and all walks of life will agree to it? The crazy Christians breaking bread with LGBTQs? Where does everyone work or is the plan to not work except for what it takes to sustain the community? People cannot even agree on a flag, but they will be willing to work side by side with groups they hate creating the community's sustainability? Sorry, I do not see any signs of great unity in this country and I do not think that what you suggest will ever happen. You could start a community with like-minded folks, but I doubt that it can be sustained and grow.

    "And even if nobody else lives this way, I still gain some freedom", if that works for you, that's great. Get rid of the gov't, healthcare, social programs, whatever you would like to see gone. But if you are really gonna follow your beliefs, when you get the mass in your brain (may this never, ever happen to you),
    seriously, what's your plan if you are avoiding the system you don't believe in? Are you really willing to die than succumb to a gov't you do not believe in, do not want in any way, so you don't use its benefits? That's pretty hardcore and a waste of a good life.

    And aren't you working for the government mainly for loan forgiveness? So I guess that makes us both hypocrites. I can live with that. I will hope you find that life you want and even a community of like-minded folks. Live a healthy lifestyle so you can take care of each other. But dude get a mass, break your beliefs and seek help, even if that help comes from corporations and the government. Use them like they try to use you.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •