End of the American Dream

[JaneV2.0]

This infographic sums it up nicely:
http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6...o1_r5_1280.png

[Ultralight]

Two parents, both working outside the home, is what has increased the *household* income.

Who is raising their kids?

[jp1]

Who is raising their kids?

Depends on how much money they have to pay for childcare. As someone who was a kid during the big change from mom raising the kids to random strangers raising the kids I can remember my parents lamenting whether it was a good thing for families to have two incomes. Personally I'm glad my parents were financially able to have mom stay home.

[jp1]

This infographic sums it up nicely:
http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6...o1_r5_1280.png

Yes it does. Investing in the next generation shouldrank as one of the most important things society spends money on. Over the last several decades we've obviously decided that it's not.

[Gregg]

I figured out how much it would cost me to get the same graduate degree I have today, at today's prices, and living the way I lived. It would cost $18,000 today. I don't know how much my degree cost in 1980's dollars, but I consider $18,000 for a graduate degree that propels me into the workforce to be eminently reasonable.

Why people have to borrow $35,000 - $50,000 for this type of degree, and they do, is utterly beyond me. But greed is one reason. They need to live in a 2BR apartment, drive a newish car, and have cell phones, gym memberships, restaurant meals out 3x weekly is all part of the new graduate student lifestyle and baby that cost $$$.

I lived in a dorm. I had no car. I sold plasma for beer and cigarette money. It was a simple life, and I enjoyed it.

Also, I find the excess campus amenities out there now, the huge sports complexes and gym complexes, to be ridiculous examples of excess. That is one reason why education costs have gone up. Certainly easy access to borrowed money is another.

Yea, that easy access to borrowed money is a real problem. And its far worse more blatant now that the banks know the debt won't go away in BK court. Our primary goal in latter stage child rearing was to get all three through college (undergrad) with no debt. We were lucky to have been in a position to do that. After his graduation we found out DS took out student loans for at least the last 3 of his 7 year university career, obviously without any need for us to cosign. In his defense he moved to CA and spent a few years going part time to community college and establishing residency before he dove in to a full university schedule. Anyway, he borrowed money to live the life in La Jolla, CA where his school was located, not because he needed the funds for school or basic living expenses. His gf, and soon to be wife, has a trust fund that wasn't huge, but was plenty to allow her to live very comfortably and do a lot of fun things without working her way through school. Needless to say DS didn't have that so he borrowed to keep up with Miss Jones. Now he bitches about the debt and I get to remind him how foolish it was to live large on borrowed money. Also needless to say that he's on his own to pay those loans back. Hopefully it bought him with $50K of common sense going forward, but its still mind boggling that a bank would lend that kind of money to a kid in school with no assets and a part time job. Makes it pretty obvious that they know they have the rest of his life to get it back.

[Gregg]

Yes it does. Investing in the next generation shouldrank as one of the most important things society spends money on. Over the last several decades we've obviously decided that it's not.

+1

[Zoe Girl]

Who is raising their kids?

Me! and the school. I know we have this wonderful idea about it only being parents with kids but there are some great programs and people out there to create that village that raises a child. Now there is the problem that families on a limited income have a hard time getting high quality and child care workers are often very low paid. So that gap creates a lot of issues, but high quality care is a wonderful thing that can support families. I stayed home for years due to my kids being sick a lot. I think it would have helped me in various ways to be able to work outside and use other parts of my being!

[Tenngal]

When my parents were young and first married (1950's), my Dad, with only a GED, made enough money to own a house and allow my Mom to stay at home. He didn't have a fancy white collar job either. That scenario does not happen today. A high school graduate working full time at a minimum wage job (or even a couple of dollars above minimum) can barely afford to pay rent on a one bedroom apartment. I'd hardly say that's a spending problem. It's a everything-has-increased-in-price-except-wages problem. Minimum wage jobs are only meant to be for high school and college students (as most conservative politicians say)? Tell that to my husband (48) who has a masters degree and has to work two part time low wage jobs to equate one full time one because its impossible to find higher paying "career" jobs here. I've worked at my job (office job) for 13 years and only this year finally hit $15.00/hr. We're fortunate that we live in a state that has one of the lowest costs of living in the country, otherwise we'd be screwed financially. And to hint that we're lazy and it's our own fault for making so little really makes me see red.

another +1.........this is what I also see.

[Williamsmith]

The American Dream is still alive and well.....as long as you realize it is built on the principle of ever increasing debt. The title should read....End of America. Our standard of living is being reduced daily. We have a right to be worried about the fiscal irresponsibility that is causing our indebtedness to increase.

Congress has just agreed in principle to raise the debt limits on our credit card so that we can continue our spendthrift ways. We are debt addicts. The Baby Boomers, of which I am counted, will force us to that realization that we have not saved up for a rainy day. In fact, we have laughed in the face of an oncoming category 5 hurricane.

Healthcare needs a dramatic change, not just the screwed up facelift Obamacare provided. Our taxes need to get realistic.....it's going to take some pitching in from everybody and the more you have benefited from previous tax loopholes the more you should be chipping in. The military needs to be brought back to a level where we can mount a vigorous defense but not one that punishes other countries for being in our way of manifest destiny. And the stupid Citizens United must be reversed so that corporate money does not influence the rules of the game. Glass Steagle needs reinstated so that banks and Wall Street investment entities don't get too big. And the five largest banks need to be busted up.

Or maybe just a hunter and gatherer subsistence life in Alaska with a few good books might do the trick.

[Ultralight]

The American Dream is still alive and well.....as long as you realize it is built on the principle of ever increasing debt. The title should read....End of America. Our standard of living is being reduced daily. We have a right to be worried about the fiscal irresponsibility that is causing our indebtedness to increase.

Congress has just agreed in principle to raise the debt limits on our credit card so that we can continue our spendthrift ways. We are debt addicts. The Baby Boomers, of which I am counted, will force us to that realization that we have not saved up for a rainy day. In fact, we have laughed in the face of an oncoming category 5 hurricane.

Healthcare needs a dramatic change, not just the screwed up facelift Obamacare provided. Our taxes need to get realistic.....it's going to take some pitching in from everybody and the more you have benefited from previous tax loopholes the more you should be chipping in. The military needs to be brought back to a level where we can mount a vigorous defense but not one that punishes other countries for being in our way of manifest destiny. And the stupid Citizens United must be reversed so that corporate money does not influence the rules of the game. Glass Steagle needs reinstated so that banks and Wall Street investment entities don't get too big. And the five largest banks need to be busted up.

You sound like some kind of liberal!

I agree with you a lot.

I used to be a total spendthrift and went into various forms of debt -- some tiny and some absolutely mountainous.

I wonder what can change people's minds about debt? When I talk to people about debt they just think of it as a fact of life. Or they note that it is not ideal, but say it is only temporary "until ________."

After "_______" they will be out of debt and ahead of the game. But our economic system -- and probably more largely -- they themselves keep moving the finish line farther away.

Thoughts?