Trumps: White Angry Middleclass

[ApatheticNoMore]

I saw life choices as:

Motherhood
School
Work

well you can't stay in school forever, even an MD eventually graduates. But I was good in school in a way I never am at work, so I should have stayed in school a little longer for certain. If you mean being a professor, once upon a time that would have sounded like a dream job, but now it's way too dog eat dog as so many try for it and so few get it. I don't think I'd be good at motherhood,so for the sake of the kids I never reproduced (I never though it was fair for them to have me as a mother, and in many ways I don't think it's fair to bring people into the world), however I think it would have real satisfaction in a way work has only deep soul sucking emptiness that leaves you deeply depressed and desparing at the end of the day wondering: "is this all there is?". Really though the full time motherhood choice isn't much respected (you are a traitor to feminism). The school forever choice isn't much respected (when are you going to get a job already, you shiftless good for nothing). Work is respected, in a way nothing else is, in this society.

[catherine]

So true, Catherine. I never realized how easy work was until I was home with my toddlers. Good God, that was exhausting. And it's not just being on 14 hours a day--there are the nights where you are up with croup, the visits to the ER, the constant vigilance. Work was much easier for me, and a hell of a lot more fun. And I adored my kids, and did not put them in day care. Who knows, maybe that would have been better for all of us.

So true! "Well-rested mother" is probably an oxymoron.

I do not blame ANM for thinking that endless rounds of finger painting, diaper-changing, cookie-making is free time. I realize a lot of people don't see that a mother's "free time" is having to plan and pack for every short trip out of the house and hope you get back having remembered everything you were there for, and without losing a kid, or having one have a tantrum in the check-out line. A mother's "free time" is going years without the simple pleasure of going to a movie because who wants to spend precious baby-sitting budget on a movie?*




*ETA: I remember my husband was out of town and a friend from church said, "Let's go to a movie," and I said, "I can't go to a movie! I've got the kids!" She talked me into getting a babysitter. I hadn't been to a movie in probably 4-5 years, and I still remember the pure pleasure of sitting and watching "Running on Empty" with River Phoenix in the dark with the popcorn and the soda. Every time I see that movie in the TV listings, I recall it fondly as my first post-Mom movie.

[Chicken lady]

Lol! I remember when we moved and they interviewed me for the church bulletin and asked what the last book was I read. I said "green eggs and ham.". You really had to go back more than three years to get the kind of answer they were looking for.

ApatheticNoMore, I think that the fact that we as a society repect work for which you get paid more than work for which you do not, and pay more for work that does not involve meeting basic human needs (advanced medicine excepted) is part of the problem. It's a key player in the suicidal middle class white male, the middle aged female executive heart attack, and the concept of the "welfare queen"

[Zoe Girl]

Choice is the greatest! I know that I was great at the million multi-tasks and now I basically do that at work. I get feedback that I am really patient and capable, but I did not start that way with my first kid. All I wanted for awhile was control of my life back!

[iris lily]

So true! "Well-rested mother" is probably an oxymoron.

I do not blame ANM for thinking that endless rounds of finger painting, diaper-changing, cookie-making is free time. I realize a lot of people don't see that a mother's "free time" is having to plan and pack for every short trip out of the house and hope you get back having remembered everything you were there for, and without losing a kid, or having one have a tantrum in the check-out line. A mother's "free time" is going years without the simple pleasure of going to a movie because who wants to spend precious baby-sitting budget on a movie?*

...

Make no mistake, as a working girl I did not resent coworkers being home "with sick kids" for more than a moment. Once or twice I probably did resent them, but I got over that fast, and early. Because I could see in my imagination what that sick kid thing all entailed, that was a big NOPE for me. Id rather be at work.

[Teacher Terry]

I stayed at home until the youngest of my 3 went to school f.t. It was hard work but I never regretted it. My youngest had a chronic illness that would sometimes have him miss a month of school at a time. ER visits in middle of night, etc. I was always on duty. I never had so much as a glass of wine because I had to be on it 24-7. It would have been much easier to work and when I did go back it was. Thankfully my hubby was supportive but yeah the only time I was free was when my Mom watched the kids. Easy to make assumptions when you have not done it.

[freshstart]

I chose to have children but I also chose a husband who I thought would truly co-parent with me and I would work half time, going back to full time once the kids were in school. I was raised not to be dependent on a man, I needed to work because that was what I deeply believed. We worked different shifts so our children didn't have to go to daycare. Both my pregnancies were high risk, DS was a preemie and after all those months on bed rest and being with him 24/7 for the first 9 mos of his life, eventually I needed the structure of work. We could've lived on ex's salary but I did not do well at home with no imposed schedule, I found being a SAHM very difficult, I also had PPD so that contributed to how hard it was. So I started back half-time and I was a better mother because of it. My ex switched to nights and he stayed up everyday until I got home from work. He was the most capable, nurturing dad I knew, he thrived when at home. We probably should've done the opposite, me work full time, him half time. Does that mean I should not have had children, that I found I needed to work outside the home meant I was unfit to mother? I think that's a load of crap. Children thrive with 2 loving parents and it matters not who works and who doesn't.

Eventually, for other reasons, we divorced and successful co-parenting ended because he chose to run me down to the kids, tried to break our bonds. That's not really germaine here, just being honest. But even without successful co-parenting, children can still thrive. And children thrive with single parents who have to work. Not for a second did I wish or believe that I should not have had children. That is an immensely personal decision that should not be determined or judged by others. I would argue we can agree on that. Why can we not agree on that when it comes to impoverished single moms?

I can attest that being a SAHM is work for the moms or for the dads. Was my career harder? It doesn't matter, it's comparing apples and oranges. It's time to stop arguing this issue, make your own choices to work or stay home, to breed or not, the grass is not greener on the other side. The feminists who went before us fought so that we could have a choice, not so we would argue endlessly about which is the better choice.

And it's really time to stop criticizing "welfare" moms who never got the Work to Welfare programs they were promised. It makes no sense for a woman to earn minimum wage if she has to pay the majority of that on day care. It is wrong to say who can breed and who has to be sterilized chemically so as not to add to children living in poverty. Provide training, child care and these women will work. But we will never know this because this country devalues this population of women so much, it's sickening. As for Welfare Queens, dig a little deeper, they are, for the most part, an urban myth. The majority of these moms grew up impoverished in broken homes, attended the shittiest of public schools, received no guidance that there even are better options after HS, were in no way prepared for college and we expect them to rise above all that with zero help and succeed. Could you do that? Maybe yes, because the users on here are above average intelligence. Some women can rise above the way they were raised totally on their own, but we should should offer a helping hand to those who can't.

[Teacher Terry]

I totally agree with you FS. I was a social worker and saw this stuff first hand. We had a really successful program that offered up to 2 years of job training and then free childcare, etc and these woman went back to work. It was also cheaper for society. Welfare queens are definitely an urban myth. I think having 1 parent working p.t. is great but you have to be in jobs that allow you to work different then the day shift so you don't need daycare. I have friends that never stopped working and that did not make them bad parents either. They all raised great kids.

[Zoe Girl]

And it's really time to stop criticizing "welfare" moms who never got the Work to Welfare programs they were promised. It makes no sense for a woman to earn minimum wage if she has to pay the majority of that on day care. It is wrong to say who can breed and who has to be sterilized chemically so as not to add to children living in poverty. Provide training, child care and these women will work. But we will never know this because this country devalues this population of women so much, it's sickening. As for Welfare Queens, dig a little deeper, they are, for the most part, an urban myth. .

thank you, the 'welfare moms' are people I work with. In fact until the last year our school district paid so low that half of our front line staff were on some type of social assistance. I now have many families who get the state child care assistance and they are working and doing great, I doubt they would be able to do all that they do for their kids without that support, and it is evaluated every year and a parent fee is set so the state also benefits from the parents getting better jobs, paying more into the system. I really like that grandparents who take their grandchildren get help through this system, several families have had the parents improve enough to take custody back which is a success.

Right now I am thinking a lot about Michigan, both the Detroit schools that have pictures posted of how they are crumbling but also the Flint water emergency. That is going to cause massive brain damage and learning disabilities in that city.

[freshstart]

thank you, the 'welfare moms' are people I work with. In fact until the last year our school district paid so low that half of our front line staff were on some type of social assistance. I now have many families who get the state child care assistance and they are working and doing great, I doubt they would be able to do all that they do for their kids without that support, and it is evaluated every year and a parent fee is set so the state also benefits from the parents getting better jobs, paying more into the system. I really like that grandparents who take their grandchildren get help through this system, several families have had the parents improve enough to take custody back which is a success.

Right now I am thinking a lot about Michigan, both the Detroit schools that have pictures posted of how they are crumbling but also the Flint water emergency. That is going to cause massive brain damage and learning disabilities in that city.

thank you for the work that you do, it must be satisfying to see families succeed. I always saw the crap end of the stick when I did traditional home care. Little kids being raised by grandma or great-grandma who was sick enough to need my services. They did their best to raise those kids but many of these women were very ill and unable to do a whole lot. So I saw kids being removed from the home or just being failed in every way but not on purpose. I hated that piece of my job, seeing what true poverty looks like for all involved.