The Pope vs The Donald

[Alan]

Peggy, I dearly love the way you vocalize every absurd thing you can imagine. It's very entertaining .

But honestly, I believe it is equal life. You talk about the woman being burdened or enslaved by the fetus against her will while I think it works both ways, the fetus didn't create the woman. I believe the fetus deserves the same rights you demand solely for the mother and can't quite wrap my head around anyone thinking otherwise.

[catherine]

When there are words thrown around like "viability" and "pain-sensitive" when it comes to fetus rights vs mother's rights, I believe the line in the sand should be drawn before then. I am a pro-choice women who objects to late-term abortion except when it comes to medical necessity, and for me, as a lapsed Catholic with those values embedded in my DNA at this point, from a personal standpoint, I even waver on that.

For the record, I'm also against eating animals that have been cruelly-raised and the death penalty.

[peggy]

Peggy, I dearly love the way you vocalize every absurd thing you can imagine. It's very entertaining .

But honestly, I believe it is equal life. You talk about the woman being burdened or enslaved by the fetus against her will while I think it works both ways, the fetus didn't create the woman. I believe the fetus deserves the same rights you demand solely for the mother and can't quite wrap my head around anyone thinking otherwise.

Alan, again, tell me how that is equal. They can't both have equal rights to that blood, tissue, womb, time. The woman doesn't want to share her body. Period.

If it works both ways then, free that fetus. Let it go free, right? Oh, wait, it can't go free because it NEEDS someone elses blood, tissue, time, life, in order to exist.
How is that equal? it doesn't matter who created who. That has nothing to do with equal rights. And the point is, the fetus isn't created, is it. Not fully. If it were it could live outside the woman. What the woman is saying is, I don't want to create a life. Isn't that kind of her choice?

A fetus is only a potential human, much in the same way your scrambled eggs are potential chickens, but not chickens.

[Alan]

What the woman is saying is, I don't want to create a life. Isn't that kind of her choice?

Yeah, but that's kind of time sensitive. When you're talking late term abortions, it's way too late.

[bae]

I'm perfectly fine with considering the fetus a human being at the moment of conception, and granting its interests equal consideration.

However, that leads me to the conclusion that the woman carrying the child can decide to remove it from her body.

[peggy]

Yeah, but that's kind of time sensitive. When you're talking late term abortions, it's way too late.

You keep going back to late term abortions, and I realize it's for emotional effect, but the truth is, no one is having a late term abortion on a whim. A late term abortion, for all truth, is giving birth. Not easy, not always safe, and not taken lightly.
It is the height of cruelty, and yes, ignorance, to vilify these women and their painful circumstances that brought them there. To you it's just a political ploy to push the emotional buttons of less informed voters, but these are real families experiencing incredible pain and loss.
I guess this has never happened in your family, and I hope it never does because then they would have someone like you shaming and condemning them at a time when they are at their greatest need of support.

But, go ahead and wave your signs and blow the dog whistles. It's certainly your right. I suppose this all does serve one purpose. It reveals you. It reveals your opinion of women, of your version of rights, and what you will say or do to push your ideology. And it reveals willful ignorance, cause I'm pretty sure you know how the vast majority of late term abortions occur. I'm pretty sure that you're smart enough to understand false impression you want to push about late term abortions and the families who have to go through that. But by golly you aren't going to give an inch to concede that these are tragic family affairs, cause compassion just doesn't fit into the right wing narrative of no abortion no how no way.

[iris lilies]

I'm perfectly fine with considering the fetus a human being at the moment of conception, and granting its interests equal consideration.

However, that leads me to the conclusion that the woman carrying the child can decide to remove it from her body.

bae, I'll bite.

What is the logical progress from point A to point B in your above statement? How do you you get to that conclusion, logic wise?

I'll try the answer: because the baby human is inflicting harm on the adult human by bodily occupying her space against her will, that allows the adult human to exercise force in protecting herself.

Did I get it right? Ive been reading bae-isms for quite a few years now.

[peggy]

I'm perfectly fine with considering the fetus a human being at the moment of conception, and granting its interests equal consideration.

However, that leads me to the conclusion that the woman carrying the child can decide to remove it from her body.

I completely agree. I wish it were a perfect world where every baby was wanted and every pregnant woman was capable physically, emotionally and financially to have a baby. I had two myself and it was the best thing I ever did.

But the reality is, this isn't a perfect world. No one is 'pro-abortion'. I wish there was no need for abortion. But we do need it. So i am pro-choice, cause it isn't any of my business what any other woman wants to do with her body. Her body.
Two entities, people if you want to call a zygote a person, in one body. One is the host and the other is, by all definition, a parasite. (No, I don't like that term but it is what it is). When the host says i don't want to host that's it.
As you say, all things being equal, the independent owner of the body has final say.

[Alan]

You keep going back to late term abortions,

I don't go back, it's where this conversation started.

It is the height of cruelty, and yes, ignorance, to vilify these women and their painful circumstances that brought them there. To you it's just a political ploy to push the emotional buttons of less informed voters, but these are real families experiencing incredible pain and loss.

Show me where that's happened, I'm at a loss.

I guess this has never happened in your family, and I hope it never does because then they would have someone like you shaming and condemning them at a time when they are at their greatest need of support.

As you may recall, my oldest grandson has chromosomal abnormalities which were discovered prior to his birth but past 20 or so weeks. Medical professionals and friends counseled my daughter to abort and I must admit that not knowing the limits to his health or quality of life I was prepared to accept her decision in the matter. He's now 19 years old, is happy, relatively healthy and a joy to be around.
Later, when my daughter again got pregnant, the medical community again urged her to abort early because of the first childs condition. He's now 14 (as of last Friday) and absolutely normal in every respect. So if you want to talk about shaming and condemning when they are at their greatest need of support, you're pointing at the wrong group.

But, go ahead and wave your signs and blow the dog whistles. It's certainly your right. I suppose this all does serve one purpose. It reveals you. It reveals your opinion of women, of your version of rights, and what you will say or do to push your ideology. And it reveals willful ignorance...

Peggy, that's BS and you know it.