Trumps: White Angry Middleclass

[peggy]

Rob, the issue you bring up is narrow considering all the issues facing the nation as a whole. Mexico is foreign policy, security and economics as well.

But take a look at Clinton. She was leading the charge on Iraq in 2002. Gaddafi is dead almost directly because of Clinton foreign policy. She was deeply involved in regime change in Libya and created the mess we call ISIS in Syria. She has a consistent record......she makes things worse than any problem she tries to resolve. Does she get good marks for the Iranian Agreement? She is an ends justify the means foreign policy expert. She is an expert in using the United Nations as cover for military intervention without congressional approval. How about the annex in Benghazi and that fiasco. Her lies to the families of those killed?

I have to to laugh at the hypocracy of a candidate who rails against gun ownership in her own country when she is the architect of arms and ammunition smuggling which destabilized middle eastern countries not to mention fueled the murder of countless innocent citizens.

A famous joke goes like this, "If you hate this country so much, why don't you go live in another country?" And the answer to that is, "Because I don't want to be a victim of its foreign policy." Clinton has a real record of oppressing citizens from other countries.

Trump does not have a diplomatic bone in his body but please don't over look the abusive real historical record of Hillary Clinton and her global interventionism and love affair with the military.

Oh my god! Your hyperbolic hyperventilating is off the charts!
She 'led the charge on Iraq?' Really?! yes of course, cause Bush and Rumsfeld and Cheney and Rice and Powell were all just following little ol senator Clinton. As were all the other Senators and House members and state gov types and, well, just about everyone. Right? Everyone was just waiting for Clinton's move on Iraq...and of course HER involvement is what created Isis. Bush and Rumsfled, etc. were just pawns in Senator Clinton's evil hands. She alone knew they were lying and she did nothing! Nothing I tell you! How dare her pretend that she believed her president had only the countries best interest at heart.

Clinton's foreign policy...Clinton's foreign policy? Gee, here she was President and we didn't even know it. Go figure. Everything bad or that you disagree with that happened on the watch of...now what was his name? Obama?, Is directly cause by Clinton.

And Benghazi? Really? Really? Come on guy, you're just embarrassing yourself here. You do realize that the more you keep beating that horse the more ridiculous you look. Even the people in your own party don't want to talk about it. That's how ridiculous this 8 investigations and counting (I'm sure) is. Oh, and the guy running the last cartoon hearing was caught FORGING DOCUMENTS TO TRY TO FRAME HER.

Please please please show me where she said she was against gun ownership. I dare you...really. "Watch out! Carter...uh Clinton...uh Obama...I mean Clinton is coming for your guns! And I really mean it this time! Really really!"

Clinton oppresses citizens huh? Again, her apparent Presidency was a secret to us all.

You forgot she kicks puppies and spits on babies...
Sheesh! If you believe all this crap it's because the right has made a cottage industry out of spinning crap on her.

[gimmethesimplelife]

You've made this point several times and yet I can't figure out how Trump will prevent doctors and dentists in Mexico from taking your money. Can you elaborate?

The wall. If truly the wall does go up and relations with Mexico become tense, they are under no obligation to allow US citizens to enter the country. I worry a great deal about this and so do many people I know in the 85006. Beyond that, common sense dictates a high value being placed on your safety valve.....naturally I am going to keep up with current events and scan them for what impact they may have for my safety valve. Rob

[JaneV2.0]

We don't need a wall to "protect" us from a few dangerous drug dealers. The very idea is an abomination; even Ronald "Tear down this wall!" knew that.
What a bunch of neurotic pissants we've become.

[Williamsmith]

Oh my god! Your hyperbolic hyperventilating is off the charts!
She 'led the charge on Iraq?' Really?! yes of course, cause Bush and Rumsfeld and Cheney and Rice and Powell were all just following little ol senator Clinton. As were all the other Senators and House members and state gov types and, well, just about everyone. Right? Everyone was just waiting for Clinton's move on Iraq...and of course HER involvement is what created Isis. Bush and Rumsfled, etc. were just pawns in Senator Clinton's evil hands. She alone knew they were lying and she did nothing! Nothing I tell you! How dare her pretend that she believed her president had only the countries best interest at heart.

Clinton's foreign policy...Clinton's foreign policy? Gee, here she was President and we didn't even know it. Go figure. Everything bad or that you disagree with that happened on the watch of...now what was his name? Obama?, Is directly cause by Clinton.

And Benghazi? Really? Really? Come on guy, you're just embarrassing yourself here. You do realize that the more you keep beating that horse the more ridiculous you look. Even the people in your own party don't want to talk about it. That's how ridiculous this 8 investigations and counting (I'm sure) is. Oh, and the guy running the last cartoon hearing was caught FORGING DOCUMENTS TO TRY TO FRAME HER.

Please please please show me where she said she was against gun ownership. I dare you...really. "Watch out! Carter...uh Clinton...uh Obama...I mean Clinton is coming for your guns! And I really mean it this time! Really really!"

Clinton oppresses citizens huh? Again, her apparent Presidency was a secret to us all.

You forgot she kicks puppies and spits on babies...
Sheesh! If you believe all this crap it's because the right has made a cottage industry out of spinning crap on her.

Peggy,

I knew I could count on you to spice up this conversation.

As far as Clinton's foreign policy goes and her practice Presidency......she says fairly often on the campaign trail that President Obama trusted her judgement on foreign policy enough to make her his first Secretary of State. Obama often refused to take more aggressive interventions that Clinton encouraged him to do, like the No Fly Zone over Syria.

She does a fine job of spinning crap on herself without the rights help. And I am Independent. Not Republican.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Oh my god! Your hyperbolic hyperventilating is off the charts!
She 'led the charge on Iraq?' Really?! yes of course, cause Bush and Rumsfeld and Cheney and Rice and Powell were all just following little ol senator Clinton. As were all the other Senators and House members and state gov types and, well, just about everyone. Right? Everyone was just waiting for Clinton's move on Iraq...and of course HER involvement is what created Isis. Bush and Rumsfled, etc. were just pawns in Senator Clinton's evil hands. She alone knew they were lying and she did nothing! Nothing I tell you! How dare her pretend that she believed her president had only the countries best interest at heart.

Clinton's foreign policy...Clinton's foreign policy? Gee, here she was President and we didn't even know it. Go figure. Everything bad or that you disagree with that happened on the watch of...now what was his name? Obama?, Is directly cause by Clinton.

And Benghazi? Really? Really? Come on guy, you're just embarrassing yourself here. You do realize that the more you keep beating that horse the more ridiculous you look. Even the people in your own party don't want to talk about it. That's how ridiculous this 8 investigations and counting (I'm sure) is. Oh, and the guy running the last cartoon hearing was caught FORGING DOCUMENTS TO TRY TO FRAME HER.

Please please please show me where she said she was against gun ownership. I dare you...really. "Watch out! Carter...uh Clinton...uh Obama...I mean Clinton is coming for your guns! And I really mean it this time! Really really!"

Clinton oppresses citizens huh? Again, her apparent Presidency was a secret to us all.

You forgot she kicks puppies and spits on babies...
Sheesh! If you believe all this crap it's because the right has made a cottage industry out of spinning crap on her.

Peggy, just wanted to say Glad to see you back here. It's been awhile since I have seen your pixels. Rob

[Alan]

Oh my god! Your hyperbolic hyperventilating is off the charts!
She 'led the charge on Iraq?' Really?!

Oh I don't know about leading the charge, but she did her best to sell it.

[frugal-one]

Considering The diplomatic failures of the last eight years, how could Trump do any worse. North Korea plays with Nukes, Iran develops them, Russia routinely does practice attacks on our military, Crimea got annexed, Ukraine is a mess, Syria is a den of terrorists, Lybia, Somalia, Afghanistan, Turkey......all training grounds for radical Islam, Isreal is no closer to peace, geez I could go on. Do you really think the Trump movement is a groundswell of "backwards racists and uneducated bums? There really are articulable reasons to be fearful of the great diplomat Clinton.

Months ago Trump stated that people would continue to vote for him even if he killed somebody. After all the gaffes he has made... I think he is right! He does not have to be diplomatic in any sense. Whatever he decides to spew from his mouth is ok by his followers. I just don't get it!

ETA ... Don't see where you can get both posts... the original was how can you condone him not being diplomatic in any way.....

[Alan]

ETA ... Don't see where you can get both posts... the original was how can you condone him not being diplomatic in any way.....

To reply to two different posts, for the first post, click on the 'Multi-Quote" symbol on the far right, then follow up with the "Reply With Quote" button for the second.

[Rogar]

Some of Trump's proposed policies might be interesting to see. Much of what he wants is just hype to get media attention and will never get by the government system of checks and balances, even if he is serious. It's not so much his policies as his persona that are the most disagreeable. When ever I've done a fact checker on his statements, what he says is generally inaccurate. I've only to conclude that he is not very smart, or he is a liar. His arrogance is almost off the scale and not even close to being a good example for other people or children.

If he is elected, I don't think it will be a big disaster. I could see it as sort of like the alcoholic who won't start back up until he's reached rock bottom. It would be an example of what a failure our political system has become and maybe be the impetus for reform. The Republican party could be reduced to rubble.

Seems like we've been talking Clinton and foreign policy. I could see Trump's avenues of foreign diplomacy or cooperation closing down as he builds his wall, alienates parts of the world with his racism, and starts reducing foreign economies by reversing trade agreements. And for that matter, what of the HUGE escalation of cost of goods when we bring manufacturing industry back from counties with lax environmental regulatory costs and dirt cheap labor. Especially after all our cheap illegal labor is deported. The effect on the economy could well be off set by the stimulus from a build up of the military, though.

[LDAHL]

I liked Victor Davis Hanson's take on the Trump/Clinton Dilemma: Do you prefer your obtuseness cooked or raw?

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ver-trump-2016

He considers Clinton "far, far worse", because she is far more effective in her prevarication and part of a Party establishment that uses the same tactics rather than a one-off demagogue like Trump. I'm not sure I completely agree, but he makes a good argument.