Let the debate begin?

[iris lilies]

Even Paul Krugman, the economic writer for the NYT has turned on him. He'd been praising Biden's economy for months recently. Et Tu Burte? If there is any plan B being planned, I could only hope Harris isn't automatically the default candidate without thinking through the choices, although it's probably the case.

there are forum posters over on the Mr. Money Mustache website who are claiming Russian influence in the media that has turned them against Biden. I guess now even George Clooney is subject to those Russian bots.


Yes, these are people who expect to be taken seriously. I just… Can’t.

[Alan]

Project 2025 was twittered about and I heard about it on Reddit some weeks ago. Maybe it’s been months. I halfheartedly took a look at it and it’s quite dense, 900 pages. it presents a blueprint for what SOME conservatives would like to see happen to the federal government. Trump may or may not adopt some of it.

Since my last post I've looked into it a bit and found that it's nothing more than a recommended policy statement created and promoted by the Heritage Foundation and it's several years old. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with the Republican Party itself or Trump specifically.

I think the only reason it's gotten any media coverage recently is because the Democratic Party is using it as a scare tactic and attention diverter from their immediate problem of no confidence in their candidates. They've even created their own website to promote it as Trumps Project 2025 and sent President Biden out to personally scare their base and anyone else who only reads headlines.

https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/181101...biden-n2398226

[Rogar]

there are forum posters over on the Mr. Money Mustache website who are claiming Russian influence in the media that has turned them against Biden. I guess now even George Clooney is subject to those Russian bots.


Yes, these are people who expect to be taken seriously. I just… Can’t.

Will it ever end. The other conspiracy is coming from the conservatives who claim Biden's poor mental health has been part of a big cover up by the dems and by the mainstream media. I'm not sure of all the parties behind it other than the evil Miller.

"Donald Trump adviser Stephen Miller decried the “Biden cognition hoax,” claiming (without citing specific evidence) that senior Democrats had conspired with sympathetic elements in the media to hide the truth about the president’s health. “The biggest hoax in history has been exposed,” said Miller, who is expected to assume a senior position in a possible second Trump White House.

Fox News host Sean Hannity singled out the “cabal of Biden enablers and liars and state-run media” for seeking to obscure Biden’s health.

Ramaswamy explained that conservatives view the media’s role in the debate debacle “in the context of the last four years” of what he alleged was collusion between the media and the Democratic Party."

[iris lilies]

Will it ever end. The other conspiracy is coming from the conservatives who claim Biden's poor mental health has been part of a big cover up by the dems and by the mainstream media. I'm not sure of all the parties behind it other than the evil Miller.

"Donald Trump adviser Stephen Miller decried the “Biden cognition hoax,” claiming (without citing specific evidence) that senior Democrats had conspired with sympathetic elements in the media to hide the truth about the president’s health. “The biggest hoax in history has been exposed,” said Miller, who is expected to assume a senior position in a possible second Trump White House.

Fox News host Sean Hannity singled out the “cabal of Biden enablers and liars and state-run media” for seeking to obscure Biden’s health.

Ramaswamy explained that conservatives view the media’s role in the debate debacle “in the context of the last four years” of what he alleged was collusion between the media and the Democratic Party."

soooooo….Roger. if I say “ Joe Biden’s frailty has been hidden and his declining mental acuity has been downplayed “do you think that’s a true statement? Or do you think that’s a conspiracy theory?

[Rogar]

soooooo….Roger. if I say “ Joe Biden’s frailty has been hidden and his declining mental acuity has been downplayed “do you think that’s a true statement? Or do you think that’s a conspiracy theory?

I think it's either a fabrication or an exaggeration, especially when it comes to the dems colluding with mainstream media in some sort of dem/media coverup scheme. Do you think the Russian trolls or influencers are turning the media against Biden?

I don't think there is a "cabal of Biden enablers and liars and state run media" obscuring Bidens health. That's a dark state conspiracy theory. I don't think it covers the last four years, as Ramaswamy implies. And especially in light of Trump's Big Lie, it's hardly the "biggest hoax" in history or even close as Miller claims. I would consider that three gross exaggerations, conspiracy theories, or lies right in a row.

I honestly don't have any evidence his inner circle has been hiding things and/or colluding with the media, but show me clear evidence and I might be convinced.

I do think Biden is not on top of the presidential game and should step aside. But I think he has been an historically good president, as presidents go.

[iris lilies]

I think it's either a fabrication or an exaggeration, especially when it comes to the dems colluding with mainstream media in some sort of dem/media coverup scheme. Do you think the Russian trolls or influencers are turning the media against Biden?

I don't think there is a "cabal of Biden enablers and liars and state run media" obscuring Bidens health. That's a dark state conspiracy theory. I don't think it covers the last four years, as Ramaswamy implies. And especially in light of Trump's Big Lie, it's hardly the "biggest hoax" in history or even close as Miller claims. I would consider that three gross exaggerations, conspiracy theories, or lies right in a row.

I honestly don't have any evidence his inner circle has been hiding things and/or colluding with the media, but show me clear evidence and I might be convinced.

I do think Biden is not on top of the presidential game and should step aside. But I think he has been an historically good president, as presidents go.

now this is fascinating to me because it seems like an absolutely clear and ringing true fact that Joe Biden‘s frailty and mental acuity has been…hidden.

Don’t place too much emphasis on the word “hidden “if that triggers a conspiratorial sense for you.

By no means do I think that there were conference calls and meetings surrounding Biden‘s frailty, with groups of people vowing to keep this quiet from the American public. I want to emphasize I DO NOT think there was a coordinated effort here.

I *DO* think many people, those in President Biden‘s inner circle have been gradually surprised and distressed at his failing abilities. I think they immediately kicked into gear to help him and by that I mean produce aids, design easy schedules, etc. to carry out his responsibilities. They are not consciously thinking “I’m going to screw the American public by lying about Joe Biden‘s condition “ instead they are doing their jobs and supporting their boss.

For the mainstream media, there’s not one monolithic media. But there are many many news operatives who will not give real criticism to President Biden because they think that feeds into any kind of support for Donald Trump. They just won’t. And the real story with the media is not necessarily cover-up, but their complete and utter failure to investigate this giant news story that we’ve been living with for a couple of weeks. Biden is not fit for office. It is literally their job to investigate news stories like this.

So a broad use of the word “ conspiracy” in this case seems ok to me. but if one has a narrow and more legalistic definition of the word “conspiracy “then the word does not fit.

[LDAHL]

I don’t think obnubilating Biden’s infirmity was a conspiracy. It was more like the murmuration displayed by a flock of birds or a school of fish. Like when NPR staffers objected to running a story that “might help Trump”. They thought of it more as spin than lies. Biden’s handlers did their best to avoid public appearances unsupported by notes and teleprompters and a solicitous media. It was just part of the job. They got to the point where they could say “I can hardly keep up with him” without blushing. Maybe they even believed it.

Ultimately, the debate provided an emperor has no clothes moment that stripped away the carefully crafted illusion. The media broke first. They have a certain level of credibility to preserve. The people whose careers depended on maintaining the illusion are taking a little longer.

[iris lilies]

I don’t think obnubilating Biden’s infirmity was a conspiracy. It was more like the murmuration displayed by a flock of birds or a school of fish. Like when NPR staffers objected to running a story that “might help Trump”. They thought of it more as spin than lies. Biden’s handlers did their best to avoid public appearances unsupported by notes and teleprompters and a solicitous media. It was just part of the job. They got to the point where they could say “I can hardly keep up with him” without blushing. Maybe they even believed it.

Ultimately, the debate provided an emperor has no clothes moment that stripped away the carefully crafted illusion. The media broke first. They have a certain level of credibility to preserve. The people whose careers depended on maintaining the illusion are taking a little longer.

Some elements of our American populace are telling everyone to ignore this emperor has no clothes moment. It isn’t important. Don’t believe your lying eyes!

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell, 1984

[catherine]

I don’t think obnubilating Biden’s infirmity was a conspiracy. It was more like the murmuration displayed by a flock of birds or a school of fish. Like when NPR staffers objected to running a story that “might help Trump”. They thought of it more as spin than lies. Biden’s handlers did their best to avoid public appearances unsupported by notes and teleprompters and a solicitous media. It was just part of the job. They got to the point where they could say “I can hardly keep up with him” without blushing. Maybe they even believed it.

Ultimately, the debate provided an emperor has no clothes moment that stripped away the carefully crafted illusion. The media broke first. They have a certain level of credibility to preserve. The people whose careers depended on maintaining the illusion are taking a little longer.

I agree. Just for the fun of it I googled "when did they know Reagan had Alzheimer's"--and his son Ron said, in his book about his dad, that he knew he was "slipping" as early as October 1984...so perhaps Reagan had a similar cadre of aides who protected him with their silence about it. Cognitive decline isn't a light bulb--it's a slow burn so it's possible that these slips of the tongue or momentary confusion are not diagnosable as senility or dementia, and that, as Biden alluded to, a person of advanced age is bolstered by their wisdom and life experience--for a time at least.

I feel that the pressure will get too great for Biden and too distracting for the campaign and they'll find some way to get him to step down. I think that at the very least, his hubris about his capabilities may stem from a hope that he can slip in to win the election and then he would be able to step aside "for medical reasons". As good and a selfless leader his reputation reflects (at least compared to Trump's), I do think it's hubris for him to believe that he's the ONLY one who can carry on the party's values and make things happen across party lines--especially when he is losing the public's confidence at a rapid pace

[LDAHL]

Robert Hur must be feeling vindicated right now.