Let the deportations begin?

[bae]

One Googled source I read said that. I’ll go back and see if I can find it.

It doesn’t even pass the back-of-the-envelope test. The population of the USA was 328 million in 2019, you’d think 44 million new immigrants in the year 2020 would have been noticed, as that would be a >13% increase in the total US population. The total US population in 2023 was 335 million, so, assuming no births at all, 37 million of those purported 2020 immigrants somehow died, were deported, or otherwise vanished. Doesn’t make any sense.

I suspect your figure was probably “total number of immigrants in the USA in 2020”, and the interesting thing would be to see what that curve looks like over the past 50 years or so.

[iris lilies]

It doesn’t even pass the back-of-the-envelope test. The population of the USA was 328 million in 2019, you’d think 44 million new immigrants in the year 2020 would have been noticed, as that would be a >13% increase in the total US population.

I suspect your figure was probably “total number of immigrants in the USA in 2020”, and the interesting thing would be to see what that curve looks like over the past 50 years or so.

yes, you are right. Mea culpa. This is the number you are citing most likely.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...0respectively.

I definitely saw the number 44 million but that was just in a headline when I did a lazy Google, I didn’t look at the source and it was wildly wrong.

We can all recognize that it’s impossible to know the real number of immigrants coming into this country in the year 2020 because illegal immigration makes up part of that number. And, it is to the advantage of the Biden White House to under estimate .

I will poke around further to see if I can find the total number of estimated immigrants in 2020.

…………….…………………..

i give up. It appears estimates of 10 million to 11+ million undocumented person here illegally IN TOTAL is one number, but how many cane in 2020 is unclear. Note that I chose the year 2020 at random but it does not apoarently reflect much Biden policy.

The number of persons processed legally seems to be in the range of 700,000 to 800,000 each year in recent years.

sorry, “44 million” is completely wrong. Slap me.

https://www.statesman.com/story/news.../74047477007/#

[LDAHL]

There seem to be two primary arguments against maintaining better control over who can enter and stay in this country. The first is the emotional “nation of immigrants” argument. Often made by the sort of people who mobilized the National Guard when exasperated Texans sent a few busloads of immigrants their way. I would argue that being in a position to decide who gets in allows us to then argue over how generous we want to be. The second is the fear that we will lose an economically valuable serf class if we discourage illegal immigration. I would think that we could address that through some sort of guest worker program. But once again, we would need to maintain some level of control over who comes in for such a program to work.

[iris lilies]

There seem to be two primary arguments against maintaining better control over who can enter and stay in this country. The first is the emotional “nation of immigrants” argument. Often made by the sort of people who mobilized the National Guard when exasperated Texans sent a few busloads of immigrants their way. I would argue that being in a position to decide who gets in allows us to then argue over how generous we want to be. The second is the fear that we will lose an economically valuable serf class if we discourage illegal immigration. I would think that we could address that through some sort of guest worker program. But once again, we would need to maintain some level of control over who comes in for such a program to work.

Right. I have nothing against documenting on a temporary and controllable basis people who pick my strawberries. This assumes of course that it WILL be controlled. Protests in England this year showed the controllers are not controlling according to the promises they made when elected.England has an immigration problem , real or perceived, but certainly an issue to large swaths of their population.


I don’t even mind if Gavin Newsom extends social services benefits to those strawberry pickers, state funded services of course. California is rich and can afford it.

[LDAHL]

I DON’t even mind if Gavin Newsom extends social services benefits to those strawberry pickers, state funded services of course. California is rich and can afford it.

I suspect we will see a renaissance of interest in federalism in blue states as people like Newsom seek to be seen as leaders of the “resistance”. They may even develop an appreciation for the Chevron decision now that they’re not the ones doing the Executive Ordering.

[frugal-one]

[QUOTE=LDAHL;440822]There seem to be two primary arguments against maintaining better control over who can enter and stay in this country. The first is the emotional “nation of immigrants” argument. Often made by the sort of people who mobilized the National Guard when exasperated Texans sent a few busloads of immigrants their way. I would argue that being in a position to decide who gets in allows us to then argue over how generous we want to be. The second is the fear that we will lose an economically valuable serf class if we discourage illegal immigration. I would think that we could address that through some sort of guest worker program. But once again, we would need to maintain some level of control over who comes in for such a program to work.[/QUOTE]

This has been done for many years. However, for many occupations it is just easier to have migrant workers. Some of the other programs are complicated or time-consuming to initiate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guest_worker_program

[LDAHL]

[QUOTE=frugal-one;440830]

There seem to be two primary arguments against maintaining better control over who can enter and stay in this country. The first is the emotional “nation of immigrants” argument. Often made by the sort of people who mobilized the National Guard when exasperated Texans sent a few busloads of immigrants their way. I would argue that being in a position to decide who gets in allows us to then argue over how generous we want to be. The second is the fear that we will lose an economically valuable serf class if we discourage illegal immigration. I would think that we could address that through some sort of guest worker program. But once again, we would need to maintain some level of control over who comes in for such a program to work.[/QUOTE]

This has been done for many years. However, for many occupations it is just easier to have migrant workers. Some of the other programs are complicated or time-consuming to initiate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guest_worker_program

There are many areas where breaking the law is easier. But that isn’t much of an argument for breaking the law.

[Tybee]

Lazarus wrote the poem in 1883 to raise money for the pedestal for the Statue of Liberty. In 1880, immigrants represented 13.3% of the US population. In 2023, they represented 14.3% of the US population.

U.S. Immigrant Population and Share over Time, 185.. | migrationpolicy.org

[frugal-one]

[QUOTE=LDAHL;440832]

There are many areas where breaking the law is easier. But that isn’t much of an argument for breaking the law.

What are you talking about? Migrant or guest workers are not breaking the law?

[jp1]

I'm not okay with the kind of deportations you are okay with. I am not okay with children's lives being ruined, especially when they are my fellow American citizens born here as we were. I'm not okay with the viciousness with which the president-elect's people talk about other people.

Not finding a lot of common ground, are we.

And I’m no longer ok with the “ you’re putting words in my mouth” excuses that the people on the right here routinely use. It’s tired and childish and doesn’t convince anyone that they are sincere. Especially when they toss out absurd immigration statistics and other such nonsense. It’s also a large part of why I’m pulling away from this site and will probably be gone by Inauguration Day. There are better uses of my time than arguing with a bunch of people that think anything about a second trump administration will be acceptable. The upper middle class straight white old person privilege they display is galling to say the least.