I was especially shocked by that ad that ran the clip of Obama promising to cut the deficit in half in his first term. Vicious!Originally Posted by Rogar
I was especially shocked by that ad that ran the clip of Obama promising to cut the deficit in half in his first term. Vicious!
Our economic woes? Just who is "us", anyway? There's a lot of people who have done pretty well the last couple of years. I haven't watched, but I haven't heard of anyone speaking at the convention turn out their pockets and say how much they've lost recently.
If the government stayed out of it, we'd have a much stronger recovery - because we would have had a much stronger crash. A little intransigence now and then is a good thing - but not for everyone.
You mean those felonious, women hating, dog abusing, wife killing, plant closing, tax cheating, pushing Grandma off the cliff ads? Yep, funny stuff.
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein
Now there's some elements of a pretty interesting discussion.
If you think the crash would have been stronger without government intervention, are you discounting the possibility that the governments meddling in the housing market was a major aspect of the initial housing crash, from which all else followed?
If you believe that the country does not have economic woes, are you simply forgetting that our government is running annual deficits of over $1T with no end in sight? That we are borrowing 40% of our annual spend without any plan to stop? That unemployment hasn't been this high, for this long since the great depression?
Or, by asking "Just who is 'us', anyway", are you really just making an "Us vs Them" argument, preferring to promote division rather than problem solving?
It's obvious that you didn't watch because you would have heard several small business owners talk about the effects that government has had on their businesses and their ability to provide jobs for others.
If you're up for it, let's explore these things in detail. That might be productive.
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein
Putting the wars on the budget would be a good start to financial health.
Naw, I was more thinking of the irony that the bulk of the republican campaign is based on slamming Obama. Even Conan found some humor in it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1615877.html
What budget is that? You know the Senate hasn't approved one since 2009. Not the ones approved by the House, not even two budget proposals that came from President Obama himself. Proposals with the dubious distinction of not receiving even one affirmative vote from his own party.
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein
if defined very very broadly, I mean if by government meddling we are including federal reserve interest rate policy and so on ... then yea that help create the problem, to see a bubble building and keep on adding fuel to the fire ... irresponsible for sure. Maybe past bailouts have created an environment of moral hazard. Fine, they probably haven't helped though I haven't seen direct causation, but you can argue broad effects. I mean if you define in very broad terms then I don't disagree. But no I don't agree with attempts to blame the entire housing crisis on subprime borrowers or something.
What are we talking about watching? The convention itself? I think refusing to subject one's perfectly decent brain to a barrage of pure unadulterated propaganda is nothing short of wisdom personallyIt's obvious that you didn't watch because you would have heard several small business owners talk about the effects that government has had on their businesses and their ability to provide jobs for others.(oh and it's not only the Republican convention that will be a barrage of propaganda (I first typed it's not only the Republican propaganda that will be a pure barrage of propaganda - freudian typo).
But it is important to know what is going on to know candidates policy positions one might argue. Ok very well but can't one just read the plank, read other statements of their positions, that are less designed to manipulate emotions (not that they might still not be dishonest and manipulative but ...).
I don't even doubt that some business owners have been negatively impacted by some regulations. Actually I'd almost think duh. Anecdotes versus statistics though ...
Last edited by ApatheticNoMore; 8-30-12 at 1:40pm.
Trees don't grow on money
There, I fixed it for ya.
"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler." ~ Albert Einstein
I think the crash was the result of more than the burst of the housing bubble (though that did have repercussions as widespread as manufacturing and individual borrowing [nothing to borrow when you're underwater]). And the housing bubble was caused by more than just some low-income buyers being "assisted" into owning homes. The big lenders had incentive after incentive to continue to loan money to any home buyer and fuel the bubble. If it was not in the lenders' interests to make ever-improbable RE loans, they woudn't have.
That said, I believe the stimulus package that was passed was inadequate. Either the government should have let GM, Chrysler, and Wall Street fail on their own or the government should have taken a much larger, more direct role in supporting the kind of businesses which will help the economy of this country. It was a half-a$$ed response and really did not have the effect it should have.
As ANM said, the Republican convention is a lesson in propaganda and lies in the service of propaganda. I don't expect the Democratic convention to be any different. Each convention will feature people whose ox has been gored by recent events. I don't plan to watch either convention.
The bit with the small-business owners is misleading, too. Many (n.b., not "most" or "all") small-business owners establish their niche in part through preferential hiring and bidding, and I'm not sure small-business owners would consider the SBA a government agency of the devil (especially since it was created during the administration of a Republican President). Oh, and I am a small-time landlord (one investment property) and a small-business owner (my photography business), so I have a good idea of the challenges small-business owners face. It ain't pretty. But it's not like the Republicans will lead us to the promised land.
Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome. - Booker T. Washington
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