View Full Version : Why NOT to vote Republican
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Oh, and I just double-checked the list, we're also an "Immigration Sanctuary County".
Perhaps the Governor of Texas or Florida can help you out with a few busloads (free shipping!). What a great virtue demonstration that would be. Why should Martha’s Vineyard get all the glory?
iris lilies
9-15-22, 2:35pm
Perhaps the Governor of Texas or Florida can help you out with a few busloads (free shipping!). What a great virtue demonstration that would be. Why should Martha’s Vineyard get all the glory?
Our president has encouraged illegal aliens in our country with his policies. That is yet another reason not to vote for him.
If I was employed by him I would not be allowed to use the term “illegal alien “but since I am not in his employment, I can say whatever I like. At the moment, anyway,
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/22/us/politics/border-crossings-immigration-record-high.html
Perhaps the Governor of Texas or Florida can help you out with a few busloads (free shipping!). What a great virtue demonstration that would be. Why should Martha’s Vineyard get all the glory?
At the moment, most of our under-the-radar immigrants here come in from Canada, which is an easy row on a foggy night.
Since the 1800s, this has been a human-trafficking route, due to being right on the border and having plenty of natural advantages to nautical smuggling. (On edit: and well before the 1800s - the Haida used to raid the area regularly to take slaves.)
I bet you are relieved people put time and effort into the first two extremely important items.
See, you think you are joking, but you wouldn't believe how much energy was spent on those two.
For instance, the initial attempts at the "Nuclear Free Zone" legislation would have prevented smoke detectors, some medical diagnostic equipment, and some of the toys I have in my lab from being allowed. And would have eliminated the possibility of ever installing one of the clever new micro-nuclear power generation facilities. Meanwhile, functioning nuclear reactors and live nuclear weapons transit our county waters almost every day.
(I'm also pretty sure birds from the mainland manage to bring over GMO seeds in their travels, as they don't have to deal with the checkpoint....)
At the moment, most of our under-the-radar immigrants here come in from Canada, which is an easy row on a foggy night.
Since the 1800s, this has been a human-trafficking route, due to being right on the border and having plenty of natural advantages to nautical smuggling. (On edit: and well before the 1800s - the Haida used to raid the area regularly to take slaves.)
You don’t need to worry about that anymore. I hear VP Harris has declared the southern border secure. I’m sure she can do the same for you.
No one is encouraging illegal immigration--unless you consider humane treatment of humans seeking asylum "encouraging." Many people have pointed out that our border policy hasn't much changed from the Trump/Miller regime, but that doesn't get through the haze of misinformation. We need to robustly fund agencies overseeing immigration, that's for sure.
"However, the accusation of open borders under Democrats holds little weight. The Biden administration has so far admitted the lowest number of refugees in the history of the U.S. refugee program. According to the latest numbers from the U.S. State Department, since 2020, the U.S. has admitted only around 11,000 refugees per year, and that number has barely fluctuated." (Snopes)
iris lilies
9-15-22, 3:21pm
See, you think you are joking, but you wouldn't believe how much energy was spent on those two.
For instance, the initial attempts at the "Nuclear Free Zone" legislation would have prevented smoke detectors, some medical diagnostic equipment, and some of the toys I have in my lab from being allowed. And would have eliminated the possibility of ever installing one of the clever new micro-nuclear power generation facilities. Meanwhile, functioning nuclear reactors and live nuclear weapons transit our county waters almost every day.
(I'm also pretty sure birds from the mainland manage to bring over GMO seeds in their travels, as they don't have to deal with the checkpoint....)
I don’t think she was joking.
You would think there would be little fall out of a Reproductive Rights Sanctuary City like Saint Louis, but the Catholic Church had some real issues with it because they thought it hampered their ability to hire employees and do a couple of other things perhaps. I don’t know how that worked out. It was just dumb. But I think the ?status of our city still stands.
iris lilies
9-15-22, 3:26pm
No one is encouraging illegal immigration--unless you consider humane treatment of humans seeking asylum "encouraging." Many people have pointed out that our border policy hasn't much changed from the Trump/Miller regime, but that doesn't get through the haze of misinformation. We need to robustly fund agencies overseeing immigration, that's for sure.
"However, the accusation of open borders under Democrats holds little weight. The Biden administration has so far admitted the lowest number of refugees in the history of the U.S. refugee program. According to the latest numbers from the U.S. State Department, since 2020, the U.S. has admitted only around 11,000 refugees per year, and that number has barely fluctuated." (Snopes)
What then is Daddy Joe doing to encorage more illegal border crossings? I was just this moment reading a headline from New York Times that says this problem is at record high. I don’t have an NYT subscription but I can read the headline.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/22/us/politics/border-crossings-immigration-record-high.html
I believe you’re mixing up concepts. “refugees” are a specific immigration status of persons entering our borders. Those are not the illegals who cross from Mexico, necessarily.
See, you think you are joking, but you wouldn't believe how much energy was spent on those two.
For instance, the initial attempts at the "Nuclear Free Zone" legislation would have prevented smoke detectors, some medical diagnostic equipment, and some of the toys I have in my lab from being allowed. And would have eliminated the possibility of ever installing one of the clever new micro-nuclear power generation facilities. Meanwhile, functioning nuclear reactors and live nuclear weapons transit our county waters almost every day.
(I'm also pretty sure birds from the mainland manage to bring over GMO seeds in their travels, as they don't have to deal with the checkpoint....)
There was a cartoon circulating around the USAF back in the eighties. A group of Soviet generals in a bunker are sitting around a table, and one is saying to the others “No comrades, targeting Chicago isn’t an option. They’re a nuclear free zone.”
frugal-one
9-15-22, 6:54pm
And yet I still prefer Johnson over Mandela Barnes, who in addition to the usual menu of left wing foolishness is a bit of a tax deadbeat himself.
Neither Johnson or Barnes would be my choice. This is a choice between the best of 2 evils. I would NEVER consider trump's minions such as mega republican traitor johnson or nutjob Michels. How you can vote for someone who tried to overturn the government ... it is beyond comprehension.
frugal-one
9-15-22, 6:55pm
There are any number of reasons to vote against Barnes that have little to do with money. He sneered at the cops the whole time Kenosha was burning while spending taxpayer funds on private security for himself. He supports a law for the de facto federal takeover of state elections. He’s always been a willing pawn of public employee unions.
I’m not sure where you got the idea I was a cop. I’m not nearly brave enough or good enough to do that kind of work.
So what type of work did you do?
Sneering... kinda reminds me when my kid's teacher years ago called us in because our kid was smiling at her... yikes! Sneering is worse than trying to engage fake electors? Priorities seem off base here.
frugal-one
9-15-22, 7:02pm
Perhaps the Governor of Texas or Florida can help you out with a few busloads (free shipping!). What a great virtue demonstration that would be. Why should Martha’s Vineyard get all the glory?
Yeah, FL and TX should be charged with illegal smuggling. From what I hear these people are transported against their will.
Yeah, FL and TX should be charged with illegal smuggling. From what I hear these people are transported against their will.
I heard someone on MSNBC speculate on that several months ago, turned out there was nothing to it. The only difference I can see between the transports those Governors are facilitating and the ones the US Government are responsible for is that the Feds are bringing them into cities at night in hopes no one will notice.
I've read that last year there were 2,000,000 migrants processed by CBP personnel, not counting those who evaded capture, and a similar number is expected this year. Does anyone really believe those TX and AZ border areas can absorb those numbers while Martha's Vineyard can't accommodate 50?
iris lilies
9-15-22, 7:38pm
Yeah, FL and TX should be charged with illegal smuggling. From what I hear these people are transported against their will.
No they’re not. They are happy because it gets some further into the United States, further north. At least, that’s what I heard in the radio interview yesterday..I heard an interview with a mayor of a Chicago suburb yesterday on NPR, so you know that it’s all correct because it’s NPR! Anyway, the mayor seemed pretty even handed in talking about the bus loads of illegal immigrants his suburban city received. Maybe is was Burr Ridge? Sorry I can’t remember for sure.
He said they had been tested for Covid, monkeypox, and then tested a second time for covid. He said that even tho he was told they were getting families in their busloads of 100 illegal aliens, they got some thing like 65 single men 22 single women, a pregnant woman or two, and a few children.
he was irritated with the state of Illinois because he thinks it’s at the state level that’s a deal was made to send illegal aliens to Chicago suburbs. He was annoyed because he couldn’t get any Illinois state officials to talk to him on the phone about it, and apparently that’s true with other suburbs receiving illegal aliens.
He said they had already put two or three of these busting people to work, they found a job for them.
Your characterization of positions of people who sometimes vote Republican is just ridiculous.
Let’s take the issue you keep harping about which is granted, a VERY BIG DEAL. The insurrection of January 6 was a nightmare situation. Please know that The Republican Party did not plan it or execute it.
Ummm. The ****ing Republican president planned and executed it with the help of a bunch of shitbags. If he wasn’t the head of the Republican Party at the time please tell me who the **** was.
The problem is you keep focusing on J6. As if that was the only thing in the attempt to overthrow the government. That was just one piece of your traitorous party’s attempt to overthrow the government. And the whole thing was lead by your ****ing traitorous party’s leader.
frugal-one
9-15-22, 10:27pm
I heard someone on MSNBC speculate on that several months ago, turned out there was nothing to it. The only difference I can see between the transports those Governors are facilitating and the ones the US Government are responsible for is that the Feds are bringing them into cities at night in hopes no one will notice.
I've read that last year there were 2,000,000 migrants processed by CBP personnel, not counting those who evaded capture, and a similar number is expected this year. Does anyone really believe those TX and AZ border areas can absorb those numbers while Martha's Vineyard can't accommodate 50?
I watched interviews of people transported. They said they were taken without any idea of where they were going. I’m sure some did not care but happy to be away but others were not. Think what you will.
Personally I’d be curious to know what Florida taxpayers think about their tax dollars being spent to send immigrants in Texas on a trip to Massachusetts.
flowerseverywhere
9-16-22, 8:23am
Personally I’d be curious to know what Florida taxpayers think about their tax dollars being spent to send immigrants in Texas on a trip to Massachusetts.
Actually it is the tourists tax dollars. There is no Florida state tax. Our sales tax ranges from about 6 to 8.5% and hotel tax around 13%. Out toll roads are very expensive as well compared to other states. People spend thousands of dollars for a few days at theme parks and the parks are packed.
From the comment section in the newspaper people are overjoyed DeSantis is owning the libs. There is a huge service economy of lawn care, hotel and restaurant workers, Farmworkers, palm tree trimmers and so on. Plus many services that come with large swaths of retirees like housecleaning, driver services like uber and private companies. even Trumps properties were found to have people working without legal status. Many employment opportunities exist where it would be easy to hide people in Florida. Unemployment benefits are very low, no expanded Medicaid and not very generous welfare type benefits as well.
Desantis did not win by much but unfortunately Andrew Gillam, who he ran against got involved in some crazy hotel room nude drug situation which was a huge blow to Democrats. And he was a well spoken, well educated black man so that only serves to fuel the fires of racist leaning people.
So in my opinion this is all about him getting free campaign coverage as he has been all over the news railing against open borders and the lawlessness of sanctuary cities. I sincerely doubt there will be much of a democratic presence in government here in the future.
flowerseverywhere
9-16-22, 8:37am
People often wonder why so many are attracted to Florida. Well the weather is gorgeous year round. And another thing in Florida is if you file for bankruptcy, your home is exempt if it is on less than one half acre. Your retirement accounts and government benefits are exempt. So for the right people it is a very attractive state to own property in. Of course for normal people they just want beautiful weather in their sunset years but many wealthy people find it is a way to have huge amounts of wealth protected.
So what type of work did you do?
I mostly worked in local government finance.
You may be confusing me with Alan, which I consider a bit flattering.
frugal-one
9-16-22, 9:36am
I mostly worked in local government finance.
You may be confusing me with Alan, which I consider a bit flattering.
No. I knew Alan was in law enforcement. You are not similar but thought you had the same occupation.
Desantis did not win by much but unfortunately Andrew Gillam, who he ran against got involved in some crazy hotel room nude drug situation which was a huge blow to Democrats. And he was a well spoken, well educated black man so that only serves to fuel the fires of racist leaning people.
Gillum was indicted earlier this year on multiple federal charges related to campaign finance fraud and other irregularities.
As always with Republicans, cruelty is the point. These poor people who Desantis is playing politics with are no different than the Cuban refugees Florida has long championed. I wonder again if any of the party's fake Christians have ever read, let alone followed, the Bible.
Teacher Terry
9-16-22, 1:20pm
I have a good friend that loves heat and humidity so loves it there. Personally I went in April and thought I was going to die.
No they’re not. They are happy because it gets some further into the United States, further north. At least, that’s what I heard in the radio interview yesterday..I heard an interview with a mayor of a Chicago suburb yesterday on NPR, so you know that it’s all correct because it’s NPR! Anyway, the mayor seemed pretty even handed in talking about the bus loads of illegal immigrants his suburban city received. Maybe is was Burr Ridge? Sorry I can’t remember for sure.
He said they had been tested for Covid, monkeypox, and then tested a second time for covid. He said that even tho he was told they were getting families in their busloads of 100 illegal aliens, they got some thing like 65 single men 22 single women, a pregnant woman or two, and a few children.
he was irritated with the state of Illinois because he thinks it’s at the state level that’s a deal was made to send illegal aliens to Chicago suburbs. He was annoyed because he couldn’t get any Illinois state officials to talk to him on the phone about it, and apparently that’s true with other suburbs receiving illegal aliens.
He said they had already put two or three of these busting people to work, they found a job for them.
Yeah, it was Burr Ridge and Elk Grove Village that have gotten illegals. Apparently JB Prickster and Groot (Lori Lightfoot) knew about bus loads and didn’t bother letting the burbs know. The Burr Ridge mayor went after both of them publicly and Groot actually apologized. Nothing from Prickster yet. EGV and BR are both pretty nice, well off suburbs. They may lean right, so I’m not surprised Prickster and Groot sent buses there.
I have no problem with what the TX gov is doing. The feds refuse to do pretty much anything about the border situation and TX is overrun with them. The blue states support anyone coming in, so let them shoulder the burden. I heard on a mainstream radio news (CBS?) that the illegals on any given bus pretty much vote where they want to go of the choices available. Chicago is a sanctuary city. They want illegals, they can deal with them.
How are they "illegals" if the are registered and vetted at the border? Now they're awaiting a hearing and may very well be denied immigrant status anyway. We need more border agents so people can be processed quickly, and they shouldn't all be assigned to a few border states. Our immigration system has been problematic for years.
Did they enter the US legally? As in with a visa, etc.? Highly doubt it. Pretty much catch and release. Who knows if they’ll ever show up back for any court dates.
iris lilies
9-16-22, 1:48pm
How are they "illegals" if the are registered and vetted at the border?
….
so now putting their (?real?) names on a bus list and doing the equivalent of spraying them down with DDT now makes them legal residents?
haha, ok. I’m never interested in sparring about labels because I find it to be a bore, so you can consider them to be whatever legal status you wish to assign to them. You and President Biden. I don’t think that will play well at the polls but we shall see.
flowerseverywhere
9-16-22, 1:52pm
Gillum was indicted earlier this year on multiple federal charges related to campaign finance fraud and other irregularities.
Yes he was. He is claiming it is political and he is innocent although he has not claimed it is a witch hunt (yet).
DeSantis got mad at Disney and wants to dissolve their special Reedy creek tax status. Kind of playing with fire to punish such a big employer who draws an enormous amount of dollars here. But have no doubts, DeSantis is very smart and knows exactly what he is doing. And he is far more clever and charismatic than many of the MAGA type politicians. As I said, he is very popular. And not enormously Wealthy like many candidates who are very far removed from what ordinary people want.
Regardless of whom the democrats run he could very well be our next president. He knows how to work a crowd without inciting violence too.
They legally registered at the border in hopes of securing refugee or immigrant status, which, as I understand it, is the appropriate process.
Spraying them with DDT? Isn't that a poison?
In your eyes, apparently, anyone seeking to enter the country at the southern border is basically vermin. Nice.
iris lilies
9-16-22, 2:12pm
They legally registered at the border in hopes of securing refugee or immigrant status, which, as I understand it, is the appropriate process.
Spraying them with DDT? Isn't that a poison?
In your eyes, apparently, anyone seeking to enter the country at the southern border is basically vermin. Nice.
It’s a reference to past immigration practices, probably too obscure for most people.
https://www.vox.com/2019/7/29/8934848/gasoline-baths-border-mexico-dark-history
edited to add: The medical testing and treatment of border jumpers today is probably more akin to what our immigrant ancestors encountered at Ellis island. Anyone who looks sickly failed a TB test wouldn’t have been able to get on a bus to go to Martha’s Vineyard.
frugal-one
9-16-22, 3:40pm
Yes he was. He is claiming it is political and he is innocent although he has not claimed it is a witch hunt (yet).
DeSantis got mad at Disney and wants to dissolve their special Reedy creek tax status. Kind of playing with fire to punish such a big employer who draws an enormous amount of dollars here. But have no doubts, DeSantis is very smart and knows exactly what he is doing. And he is far more clever and charismatic than many of the MAGA type politicians. As I said, he is very popular. And not enormously Wealthy like many candidates who are very far removed from what ordinary people want.
Regardless of whom the democrats run he could very well be our next president. He knows how to work a crowd without inciting violence too.
Dear God, I pray you are wrong!
Dear God, I pray you are wrong!
I hope she's right! It would ensure years of entertaining hand wringing from you and JP1.
On the one hand, I hate seeing people used as political pawns. On the other, I will admit I enjoy seeing some of these insufferably self-righteous progressives whining about the impact of a tiny fraction of what poor Texas border towns are expected to absorb every day. I heard Massachusetts called out the National Guard to deal with fifty people.
ApatheticNoMore
9-16-22, 4:34pm
I hope she's right! It would ensure years of entertaining hand wringing from you and JP1.
They do say with conservatives the cruelty is the point. Exhibit A.
On the one hand, I hate seeing people used as political pawns. On the other, I will admit I enjoy seeing some of these insufferably self-righteous progressives whining about the impact of a tiny fraction of what poor Texas border towns are expected to absorb every day. I heard Massachusetts called out the National Guard to deal with fifty people.
JB Prickster in IL issued a state of emergency. I laughed when I heard that.
frugal-one
9-16-22, 4:47pm
I hope she's right! It would ensure years of entertaining hand wringing from you and JP1.
You want more Hitler wannabes, I see. ... more maga republicans. Thought you were against trump... this is his minion???
frugal-one
9-16-22, 4:48pm
They do say with conservatives the cruelty is the point. Exhibit A.
That and enraging their base.
"Caring about these people (Venezuelans fleeing communism) would require empathy, which would require a heart, and I guess we know where that goes... --Nicolle Wallace, former White House Communications Director for GW bush, former Republican
Please explain to me how these asylum-seekers are less worthy than those fleeing communist Cuba.
ETA: Oh, this just keeps getting worse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NxX_orvxhw "It is sickeningly cruel," said an official in Martha Vineyard.
Apparently, agencies lied and conspired to thwart these people's attempts to gain any chance of asylum.
flowerseverywhere
9-16-22, 5:14pm
Dear God, I pray you are wrong!
I could be, but the second Trump came down that escalator I said he would be the next president. Everyone (especially my kids) said I was crazy. And then there we were. I can’t see the republicans put up a moderate at this point and I have no idea who the dems are going to run. Biden and Harris are not very popular with some democrats and enormously unpopular with republicans. Abbot does not come across the strong and charismatic way Desantis does. So who else might be the next President?
"Caring about these people (Venezuelans fleeing communism) would require empathy, which would require a heart, and I guess we know where that goes... --Nicolle Wallace, former White House Communications Director for GW bush, former Republican
Please explain to me how these asylum-seekers are less worthy than those fleeing communist Cuba.
It’s easier to preen about your empathy from a safe distance.
It’s easier to preen about your empathy from a safe distance.
It has to do with fairness, humanity, and following the rules. Empathy is extra.
That official in Martha's Vineyard is confronting Republican ugliness and cruelty right up close.
On the one hand, I hate seeing people used as political pawns. On the other, I will admit I enjoy seeing some of these insufferably self-righteous progressives whining about the impact of a tiny fraction of what poor Texas border towns are expected to absorb every day. I heard Massachusetts called out the National Guard to deal with fifty people.
So is this what the National Guard looks like in Martha's Vineyard? They don't look like NIMBY's to me.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/16/us/marthas-vineyard-community-response-migrants/index.html
Martha's Vineyard is a pretty small island with a small population. And I suspect it lacks in services for migrants.
Much like my own island. It is not uncommon here to call on state/federal resources when there are problems, as low-population remote areas typically don't have resources on-hand to deal with significant outlying events.
iris lilies
9-16-22, 6:07pm
You want more Hitler wannabes, I see. ... more maga republicans. Thought you were against trump... this is his minion???
I’ve heard quite a lot of good things about DeSantis from people I respect, so no I don’t think he’s a Trump toady. I will vote for him. I might even send him money if it looks like it’s DeSantis vs Donald Trump and DeSantis needs my cash to get ahead.
iris lilies
9-16-22, 6:13pm
"Caring about these people (Venezuelans fleeing communism) would require empathy, which would require a heart, and I guess we know where that goes... --Nicolle Wallace, former White House Communications Director for GW bush, former Republican
Please explain to me how these asylum-seekers are less worthy than those fleeing communist Cuba.
ETA: Oh, this just keeps getting worse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NxX_orvxhw "It is sickeningly cruel," said an official in Martha Vineyard.
Apparently, agencies lied and conspired to thwart these people's attempts to gain any chance of asylum.
Are all of “these people “meaning illegal aliens being bussed into Northern states fleeing communism from Venezuela? I did not know that. Or is this just for the Martha’s Vineyard group? Just musing here, no answer necessary.
Are all of “these people “meaning illegal aliens being bussed into Northern states fleeing communism from Venezuela? I did not know that. Or is this just for the Martha’s Vineyard group? Just musing here, no answer necessary.
I think just the MV group, who are no longer on the island.
Asylum seekers are not, and never have been, "illegal aliens."
DeSantis is very much a typical Republican politician--dishonest and vindictive. Maybe more politically Savvy and slightly less crude than Trump.
ETA:"politician"
frugal-one
9-16-22, 7:28pm
I’ve heard quite a lot of good things about DeSantis from people I respect, so no I don’t think he’s a Trump toady. I will vote for him. I might even send him money if it looks like it’s DeSantis vs Donald Trump and DeSantis needs my cash to get ahead.
Another wasteful, lying republican that is now involved in human trafficking.... Another good reason to avoid voting republican. BTW... DeSantis is a trump toady.... see below.
Since DeSantis didn't have any refugees readily available to expel this week, he used his forced deportation money to charter a couple of jets and coerce migrants who were in Texas — halfway across the country — to board them, claiming they were being sent to Boston with promises of resources and support. Instead the migrants were dropped off on Martha's Vineyard, a famous summer resort with a year-round population of around 15,000. No one there knew they were coming, and they were essentially dumped at the island's tiny airport like cargo.
DeSantis arranged for a video crew to record this atrocity for the entertainment of the xenophobic miscreants who watch Tucker Carlson's network. No doubt they enjoyed watching the footage of exhausted mothers and fathers with small children in their arms walking across the tarmac and wondering where the hell they were. Locals on Martha's Vineyard rose to the occasion, somewhat redeeming the reputation of human beings by offering the new arrivals food and shelter, along with legal advice and emotional support.
DeSantis seems exceedingly proud of his immoral little stunt. He held a press conference in which he claimed that his reasoning for chartering airplanes to abduct migrants in Texas and fly them to the New England coast was to save money:
One of the reasons why we want to transfer [people is] because, obviously it's expensive if people are coming here, you got to pay taxes, social services, and all these other things.
A lot of Floridians love this stuff, apparently. Consider, DeSantis' "election police force," a particularly flamboyant display of government waste. He's up for re-election and leading Democrat Charlie Crist in the polls. Most observers don't think it will be all that close. Greg Abbott is also running for another term (against Democrat Beto O'Rourke), and he dropped off a busload of asylum seekers in front of the Naval Observatory in D.C. this week — that's the official residence of Vice President Kamala Harris. Abbott and DeSantis' biggest fans are uncomfortably similar to the White Citizens' Council members who clearly enjoyed the misery they inflicted by sending Black citizens north under false pretenses. They are cruel, immoral bigots who take pleasure in hurting others.
I'm sure the other Big Florida Man is gnashing his teeth in Mar-a-Lago over DeSantis, his likely 2024 opponent, getting all this great press for owning the libs when Trump thinks it was all his idea in the first place. If he slithers back to the White House you can bet he'll seek to get this done on a national scale. But so will any other Republican likely to get elected to national office anytime soon. The red-state "laboratories of democracy" are leading the way.
-------------
Tucker Carlson..An advocate of former U.S. president Donald Trump, Carlson was described by Politico as "perhaps the highest-profile proponent of 'Trumpism'"
frugal-one
9-16-22, 7:34pm
It’s easier to preen about your empathy from a safe distance.
Unlike those of your ilk who have no empathy.
Unlike those of your ilk who have no empathy.
Ldahl thinks empathy is just a performance people do to show other people they are decent human beings. Doing kind things for others, like spending 40 years of one’s life building homes for low income people, is something people do to impress others, not something that is done because they care about those who are less fortunate than them. Personally I can’t imagine how depressing it would be having such a cynical view of the world.
iris lilies
9-16-22, 10:03pm
Ldahl thinks empathy is just a performance people do to show other people they are decent human beings. Doing kind things for others, like spending 40 years of one’s life building homes for low income people, is something people do to impress others, not something that is done because they care about those who are less fortunate than them. Personally I can’t imagine how depressing it would be having such a cynical view of the world.
I mean, you do know that he has some knowledge about that topic because he was involved in building homes for low income come people at no pay, right?
I mean, you do know that he has some knowledge about that topic because he was involved in building homes for low income come people at no pay, right?
So are you saying that ldahl’s motivation was performative? If it wasn’t why would he assume that someone who spent half their life doing the same thing had that motive?
iris lilies
9-16-22, 11:35pm
So are you saying that ldahl’s motivation was performative? If it wasn’t why would he assume that someone who spent half their life doing the same thing had that motive?
Because he might have some insight into that organization and an individual’s operation within that organization.
maybe. I’m not making declarative fact out of any of it. Neither should you.
flowerseverywhere
9-17-22, 12:28pm
I’ve heard quite a lot of good things about DeSantis from people I respect, so no I don’t think he’s a Trump toady. I will vote for him. I might even send him money if it looks like it’s DeSantis vs Donald Trump and DeSantis needs my cash to get ahead.
I think your sentiment is exactly what many republicans and independents think just from listening to those around me. I have met many people in Florida who moved here because they had homeless encampments in their parks complete with drugs and excrement. They saw teachers spending huge amounts of time with kids who did not speak one word of English. And the fact that schools cannot ask legal status totally annoys them. Just lots of democrat supported policies like sanctuary cities.
I will confess that picking where we lived involved carefully looking into school districts so naturally they were in communities with more money. I guess deep down I am as selfish and discriminatory as others. I live in a sea of red and I can truly understand why so many oppose illegally crossing the border (not through legal border crossings). I can see why many do not want their taxes to go to non citizen benefits like schools, food assistance and Medicaid when they struggle day after day and they perceive they have been left behind in favor of people coming across the border without permission. Not saying I agree with what they feel but I cannot argue what many of them feel, especially in southern Texas. Their border is huge and in many places the Rio grand is not amenable to a wall and very easy to cross.
flowerseverywhere
9-17-22, 12:34pm
Also DeSantis will run on early opening of the state. Our schools were open way before those in the north and businesses were given way more leeway to open. Tons of people came here to escape lockdown policies. Of course it is much easier when people can spend way more time outdoors in our parks and beaches and not stuck inside. He is married with a young family. I have not heard any dirt on him which surely would have been dug up.
Personally I love the way he uses the power of the government to bully people who use their first amendment rights in ways that he doesn't approve of. And denigrates high school kids who dare to be concerned about their health in the middle of a pandemic. And supports the republican policy of trying to bully LGBTQ folks back into the closet, even getting legislation passed in support of that goal. And now he's getting his "hate the brown people" cred. This guy is a rockstar of republican values.
flowerseverywhere
9-17-22, 12:58pm
Personally I love the way he uses the power of the government to bully people who use their first amendment rights in ways that he doesn't approve of. And denigrates high school kids who dare to be concerned about their health in the middle of a pandemic. And supports the republican policy of trying to bully LGBTQ folks back into the closet, even getting legislation passed in support of that goal. And now he's getting his "hate the brown people" cred. This guy is a rockstar of republican values.
Many people think he is right. Not me. I don’t believe the Bible he and others quote tells people to hate those who are not the same color, religion, sexual orientation or economic status. That was something that puzzled me about Trump. Standing with an upside down bible after a peaceful crowd was dispersed with rubber bullets does not seem right no matter what your religious bent is. Plus the boasting of sexual prowess and having three wives with five children among them. Not the Christian and family values I was raised with. And banning books. Power can become very ugly in the hands of some entitled rich people.
Personally I love the way he uses the power of the government to bully people who use their first amendment rights in ways that he doesn't approve of. And denigrates high school kids who dare to be concerned about their health in the middle of a pandemic. And supports the republican policy of trying to bully LGBTQ folks back into the closet, even getting legislation passed in support of that goal. And now he's getting his "hate the brown people" cred. This guy is a rockstar of republican values.
Do you think maybe you're misrepresenting all this just a bit?
Do you think maybe you're misrepresenting all this just a bit?
No. I have eyes and ears that work just fine.
No. I have eyes and ears that work just fine.
I'm glad to know that, I was afraid you may have been closing one eye and squinting with the other to see only what you want while simultaneously blasting rap music loud enough to shake the windows to screen out what you'd rather not hear. Based upon your proclamations, I'm still not certain that you're not. :D
Teacher Terry
9-17-22, 5:24pm
The people registered and were given hearings on Monday morning for example in Washington state and then sent to Massachusetts. I would think the border agents that did this would face consequences for their actions. I have lived in Kansas and it’s a red state. 3 1/2 years was sufficient.
Personally I love the way he uses the power of the government to bully people who use their first amendment rights in ways that he doesn't approve of. And denigrates high school kids who dare to be concerned about their health in the middle of a pandemic. And supports the republican policy of trying to bully LGBTQ folks back into the closet, even getting legislation passed in support of that goal. And now he's getting his "hate the brown people" cred. This guy is a rockstar of republican values.
And don't forget how he fired the whistleblower who exposed the COVID statistics he was concealing. I haven't heard anything good about him yet. And I have a built-in bias against mean-spirited, vindictive bullies.
The people registered and were given hearings on Monday morning for example in Washington state and then sent to Massachusetts. I would think the border agents that did this would face consequences for their actions. I have lived in Kansas and it’s a red state. 3 1/2 years was sufficient.
There are attorneys working on this, I understand. Apparently DeSantis broke a federal law against kidnapping by inveiglement (laws are only for the little people, right?} in which the kidnappers lie to their victims in order to get them on transport. I'd love to see him charged and convicted, but I don't hold out much hope.
I'm glad to know that, I was afraid you may have been closing one eye and squinting with the other to see only what you want while simultaneously blasting rap music loud enough to shake the windows to screen out what you'd rather not hear. Based upon your proclamations, I'm still not certain that you're not. :D
I’ll indulge you one example this week and then you can go back to sleep. Only 3 Republican senators don’t hate gay people enough that they’d re willing to support the marriage equality act.
frugal-one
9-17-22, 6:23pm
I'm glad to know that, I was afraid you may have been closing one eye and squinting with the other to see only what you want while simultaneously blasting rap music loud enough to shake the windows to screen out what you'd rather not hear. Based upon your proclamations, I'm still not certain that you're not. :D
Talking about yourself. Blind to what you don't want to see.
Talking about yourself. Blind to what you don't want to see.
Please tell me what I don't want to see, and be specific if you can, I'm interested.
I’ll indulge you one example this week and then you can go back to sleep. Only 3 Republican senators don’t hate gay people enough that they’d re willing to support the marriage equality act.
Oh, I doubt any of those Senators hate gay people as a group, maybe a few obnoxious ones but that doesn't make your point. I think it's more likely that they are not in favor of taking yet another action designed to usurp authority from states (which actually have that authority) and transferring it to the Federal Government (which does not). The idea of legislating something you have no authority over seems to be one of those assaults against democracy that everyone gets worked up over, when it suits them.
Oh, and I tried naps for a while after retiring but found that they disrupted my night-time rest. YMMV
Leaving human rights to the states has been tried before. It never ends well.
frugal-one
9-17-22, 7:31pm
Please tell me what I don't want to see, and be specific if you can, I'm interested.
I have done that ad nauseam. Go go back and you shall see. Getting old repeating... That is your mode of operation.
I have done that ad nauseam. Go go back and you shall see. Getting old repeating... That is your mode of operation.
I went back for a bit and reviewed your posts. I see that you make accusations such as in your latest post and express a few opinions, which can all be summed up in just a couple of words such as "Republicans suck", but I don't see anything specific. I'll keep my eyes open for it though.
Oh, I doubt any of those Senators hate gay people as a group, maybe a few obnoxious ones but that doesn't make your point. I think it's more likely that they are not in favor of taking yet another action designed to usurp authority from states (which actually have that authority) and transferring it to the Federal Government (which does not). The idea of legislating something you have no authority over seems to be one of those assaults against democracy that everyone gets worked up over, when it suits them.
Oh, and I tried naps for a while after retiring but found that they disrupted my night-time rest. YMMV
Thanks for confirming that you wouldn’t understand. I’m sure you thought the civil rights acts of the 60’s were a bad idea too. Jesse helms and David duke thank you for your support.
frugal-one
9-17-22, 8:00pm
I went back for a bit and reviewed your posts. I see that you make accusations such as in your latest post and express a few opinions, which can all be summed up in just a couple of words such as "Republicans suck", but I don't see anything specific. I'll keep my eyes open for it though.
MANY MANY times I have told you to "get your head out of the sand!" That is your mode of operation. It is understandable though, you want to believe things are a certain way, even if they are not....
Passing the Equal Rights Amendment still hasn't happened. Hope springs eternal, though. Such an enlightened country...
MANY MANY times I have told you to "get your head out of the sand!" That is your mode of operation.
LOL, I guess that makes sense to someone, but unfortunately not me.
Thanks for confirming that you wouldn’t understand. I’m sure you thought the civil rights acts of the 60’s were a bad idea too. Jesse helms and David duke thank you for your support.
I don't have a problem with civil rights, the Declaration of Independence specifically states that all men are created equal, which was an important part of our break from Britain and just an overall good thing to base a new government on, even if it took a while.
I think the tendency among some of you here to tarnish other members with wild, unsubstantiated accusations is in bad form, we can do better than that.
Yes. Perhaps we can do better. Like not throwing out the racist canard ‘states rights’ when discussing civil rights.
Yes. Perhaps we can do better. Like not throwing out the racist canard ‘states rights’ when discussing civil rights.
That's another thing, I think the popular habit of calling everything racist and everyone we disagree with fascists has completely taken the stigma out of the terms. We shouldn't do that either.
I don't have a problem with civil rights, the Declaration of Independence specifically states that all men are created equal, which was an important part of our break from Britain and just an overall good thing to base a new government on, even if it took a while. ....
Yeah--it makes me feel so secure and included to know the government considers all men created equal.
Yeah--it makes me feel so secure and included to know the government considers all men created equal.
LOL, I knew the founders were brilliant but I suppose they were prescient too. They probably knew that someday gender would just be a state of mind and used 'man' as a placeholder for everyone.
That's another thing, I think the popular habit of calling everything racist and everyone we disagree with fascists has completely taken the stigma out of the terms. We shouldn't do that either.
If you aren’t aware of the fact that the southern states screeched ‘STATES RIGHTS’ all through the civil rights era than we might as well stop talking because you need a more basic education before we can even have a reasonable conversation.
If you aren’t aware of the fact that the southern states screeched ‘STATES RIGHTS’ all through the civil rights era than we might as well stop talking because you need a more basic education before we can even have a reasonable conversation.
Actually, I think a more encompassing education would be in order so we could better understand the roles and responsibilities of various governmental entities. As a nation, we're sorely missing that.
Besides, we solved the civil rights aspects of all those southern states by replacing a majority of the Democratic Governors and Legislators with Republicans. That problem then pretty much solved itself.
frugal-one
9-17-22, 9:19pm
LOL, I guess that makes sense to someone, but unfortunately not me.
Obviously.
frugal-one
9-17-22, 9:20pm
That's another thing, I think the popular habit of calling everything racist and everyone we disagree with fascists has completely taken the stigma out of the terms. We shouldn't do that either.
If the shoe fits.
frugal-one
9-17-22, 9:22pm
Actually, I think a more encompassing education would be in order so we could better understand the roles and responsibilities of various governmental entities. As a nation, we're sorely missing that.
Besides, we solved the civil rights aspects of all those southern states by replacing a majority of the Democratic Governors and Legislators with Republicans. That problem then pretty much solved itself.
Haha... that's a joke. That is why NOT to vote republican... the title of this thread.
LOL, I knew the founders were brilliant but I suppose they were prescient too. They probably knew that someday gender would just be a state of mind and used 'man' as a placeholder for everyone.
Or not.
Actually, I think a more encompassing education would be in order so we could better understand the roles and responsibilities of various governmental entities. As a nation, we're sorely missing that.
Besides, we solved the civil rights aspects of all those southern states by replacing a majority of the Democratic Governors and Legislators with Republicans. That problem then pretty much solved itself.
So can I assume that you are dead set against lindsay graham’s proposed nationwide abortion ban because you believe that the states should have the right to allow abortion under whatever rules they deem appropriate?
We shouldn't have to depend on the vagaries of local elections to ensure human rights.
If I'm not mistaken, Dr. Martin Luther King and Lyndon Johnson had much to do with solidifying hard-fought civil rights. Neither of them Republican.
So can I assume that you are dead set against lindsay graham’s proposed nationwide abortion ban because you believe that the states should have the right to allow abortion under whatever rules they deem appropriate?
I think Mr Graham is trying to protect human life at the point where the rest of the civilized world recognizes the difference between a mother's unwanted tissue and a human being. Sometimes individual civil rights are contradictory, there needs to be a balance acknowledged across the board and I support his efforts. Plus, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is another founding principle, I think the Federal government has an interest in protecting life regardless of jurisdiction.
Thank you for confirming that states rights only matters if it’s a topic with which you agree.
Thank you for confirming that states rights only matters if it’s a topic with which you agree.
You're confusing the right to an abortion with the right of a human being to live. One is outside the federal government's purview and the other is not.
You're confusing the right to an abortion with the right of a human being to live. One is outside the federal government's purview and the other is not.
And you’re confusing the rights of actual existing human beings with the rights of a blob of cells that may one day become a human being.
The fact that you prioritize the blob of cells over me, a living, breathing human being tells me all I need to know about your priorities.
frugal-one
9-18-22, 4:37am
I think Mr Graham is trying to protect human life at the point where the rest of the civilized world recognizes the difference between a mother's unwanted tissue and a human being. Sometimes individual civil rights are contradictory, there needs to be a balance acknowledged across the board and I support his efforts. Plus, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is another founding principle, I think the Federal government has an interest in protecting life regardless of jurisdiction.
Another reason NOT to vote republican!
The fact that you prioritize the blob of cells over me, a living, breathing human being tells me all I need to know about your priorities.
Yes, I guess it does.
Unlike those of your ilk who have no empathy.
I think empathy is a virtue better demonstrated than talked about.
Another problem with using “empathy” to advance a narrative of ethical superiority is that it fails to balance the moral equation. Forty-four hours of would be immigrants on Martha’s Vineyard is of great consequence, but years of the same in Brownsville or Del Rio need not be mentioned. The interests of student loan borrowers are a big deal, but the that of less affluent people who will have the burden thrust open them is not. People in safe neighborhoods will talk endlessly about a relative few cases of police violence or dismiss certain crimes as not worth prosecuting, never giving much thought to tens of thousands of victims of common, everyday crime.
That why my ilk and I tend not to give too much credence to virtue signaling or accusations of callousness stemming from such thinking.
Nature isn't as enamored of zygotes/fetuses as Republicans pretend to be, given the high percentage of natural abortions/miscarriages that occur as a matter of course. And Republicans drop the pretense as soon as the fetuses turn into actual human beings at birth. (You're on your own, kid!)
iris lilies
9-18-22, 11:42am
Nature isn't as enamored of zygotes/fetuses as Republicans pretend to be, given the high percentage of natural abortions/miscarriages that occur as a matter of course. And Republicans drop the pretense as soon as the fetuses turn into actual human beings at birth. (You're on your own, kid!)
Is there some special program for Republicans to drop out of income taxes paid toward social services? I would like to know about that program. I’m not saying I would drop out, I’m just saying I would like to know about it.
Now realistically, your broad brush theme that Republicans don’t pay taxes that support social welfare programs is silly. And then add on all of the faith-based programs out there (and if you think they do not exist, you arent looking) there certainly is societal support for children.
You could argue that it’s not enough and on that argument we could talk all day about what is “enough “but at least that is a rational conversation.
Republicans are famous for voting against social programs--at least in recent history--for example, the expanded child tax credit, which lifted a lot of children--albeit temporarily--out of poverty.
I don't know how faith-based programs work for children who aren't members of the congregation in question, or how sustainable they are, but it's clear they can't meet the nation's needs by themselves.
So apparently Abbott and DeSantis' ugly stunt wasn't even a new idea. They just dragged it out of the racist playbook from 60 years ago and updated it for modern times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Freedom_Rides
frugal-one
9-18-22, 4:09pm
I think empathy is a virtue better demonstrated than talked about.
Another problem with using “empathy” to advance a narrative of ethical superiority is that it fails to balance the moral equation. Forty-four hours of would be immigrants on Martha’s Vineyard is of great consequence, but years of the same in Brownsville or Del Rio need not be mentioned. The interests of student loan borrowers are a big deal, but the that of less affluent people who will have the burden thrust open them is not. People in safe neighborhoods will talk endlessly about a relative few cases of police violence or dismiss certain crimes as not worth prosecuting, never giving much thought to tens of thousands of victims of common, everyday crime.
That why my ilk and I tend not to give too much credence to virtue signaling or accusations of callousness stemming from such thinking.
You have just proven the point ... you have no empathy. This diatribe proves it.
Most faith based programs are open to all. They certainly were open to me when as a non-believing single parent I was looking for affordable daycare for my son. He attended nondenominational Christian, Adventist, and Baptist programs.
People in safe neighborhoods ... or dismiss certain crimes as not worth prosecuting, never giving much thought to tens of thousands of victims of common, everyday crime.
Indeed. And the definition of crimes not worth prosecuting can be mindboggling to me. For instance I know of some people who think that stealing national defense secrets and putting together and implementing a complex multi-pronged plan to overturn a valid election are crimes not worth investigating or prosecuting. Some of those people have even gone so far as to accuse others who would like to see investigation and, if warranted, prosecution of those crimes of attempting a "purge" of the criminals involved.
Many crimes my city doesn't prosecute so the Chief can say crime is going down and get a good raise. I reported theft from a disabled person. They wouldn't even write up an incident report.
But the Chief did find an hour to come sit and stare at me the first time I met with the Board of Health to try to intimidate me into following the mask mandate. I guess civil offenses don't count towards his crime stats.
iris lilies
9-19-22, 8:11am
Many crimes my city doesn't prosecute so the Chief can say crime is going down and get a good raise. I reported theft from a disabled person. They wouldn't even write up an incident report.
But the Chief did find an hour to come sit and stare at me the first time I met with the Board of Health to try to intimidate me into following the mask mandate. I guess civil offenses don't count towards his crime stats.
Police brutality! I hope you got it all recorded on your cell phone!
Police brutality! I hope you got it all recorded on your cell phone!
I didn't, but since then they got paranoid and now have an announcement at the start of every meeting that anyone recording the meeting must identify themself by name and address, although everything is already broadcast on local cable access TV.
frugal-one
9-19-22, 8:31am
Many crimes my city doesn't prosecute so the Chief can say crime is going down and get a good raise. I reported theft from a disabled person. They wouldn't even write up an incident report.
But the Chief did find an hour to come sit and stare at me the first time I met with the Board of Health to try to intimidate me into following the mask mandate. I guess civil offenses don't count towards his crime stats.
Republican rant?
catherine
9-20-22, 10:53am
Why TO vote Republican?
Shoot, even I would consider voting for this gutsy, fun-loving candidate for Utah Senator! The medium is the message.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXyRPEscXCQ
Why TO vote Republican?
Shoot, even I would consider voting for this gutsy, fun-loving candidate for Utah Senator! The medium is the message.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXyRPEscXCQ
There was a sane and sensible Republican in Washington--Kim Wyman--who, as secretary of state, defended the 2020 election against local election deniers. I was considering voting for her until I found out she had been hired away by the Biden administration. Oh well.
frugal-one
9-20-22, 4:07pm
Not enough info ... generalizations... would check further if I could vote for her. BUT at least her ad was not insulting or cutting anyone down.. which is something.
Not enough info ... generalizations... would check further if I could vote for her. BUT at least her ad was not insulting or cutting anyone down.. which is something.
Oh, I was just responding to her unique way of messaging, not her message
frugal-one
9-20-22, 7:13pm
See desantis has a class action lawsuit filed against him for his duplicity in transporting Venezuelan migrants from Texas to Martha's vineyard. Why anyone considers desantis a good choice for anything is beyond me....
See desantis has a class action lawsuit filed against him for his duplicity in transporting Venezuelan migrants from Texas to Martha's vineyard. Why anyone considers desantis a good choice for anything is beyond me....
I wonder if the lawyer involved has a client or simply filed the lawsuit on his/her own?
frugal-one
9-20-22, 7:18pm
I wonder if the lawyer involved has a client or simply filed the lawsuit on his/her own?
Look it up... at least 3 migrants have filed so far.
Look it up... at least 3 migrants have filed so far.
Only 3? I would think all 48 would have had multiple lawyers soliciting their permission by now, perhaps guaranteeing large cash settlements as an incentive.
frugal-one
9-20-22, 8:28pm
News just broke….more to come?
More interesting will be the investigations into the lies they were told to coerce them onto the planes. Apparently they left a paper trail of a crudely done document promising stuff that wasn’t waiting for them. Wonder who made the decision to do that? Will Perla take the fall for it? I don’t know about texas law or federal law but Florida law is clear that lying to people to coerce them to cross state lines is a human trafficking violation.
Only 3? I would think all 48 would have had multiple lawyers soliciting their permission by now, perhaps guaranteeing large cash settlements as an incentive.
Personally, I hope this ends with all of them being granted asylum. I'm sickened at the way they were treated and used for political advantage by Abbott and DeSantis.
I watched The De-Population Bomb on YT recently in which two snooty Republican sat around discussing how the little people (women) should step it up and have more babies, while admitting that more immigration was probably the answer to our rapidly declining population. But I guess cruelty toward desperate petitioners at the border plays better to their base.
Well, gotta give the Republicans credit. They run their human trafficking operations right out in the open, not lurking in the basement of a pizza parlor where nobody can see a thing.
Well, gotta give the Republicans credit. They run their human trafficking operations right out in the open, not lurking in the basement of a pizza parlor where nobody can see a thing.
True. The democrats were so secretive they ran their operation out of the NONEXISTENT basement of a pizza parlor.
Well, gotta give the Republicans credit. They run their human trafficking operations right out in the open, not lurking in the basement of a pizza parlor where nobody can see a thing.
You can thank Trump for this trend; he never bothers to hide his criminality, knowing that he'll never have to pay for it. He never has.
frugal-one
9-21-22, 3:12am
More interesting will be the investigations into the lies they were told to coerce them onto the planes. Apparently they left a paper trail of a crudely done document promising stuff that wasn’t waiting for them. Wonder who made the decision to do that? Will Perla take the fall for it? I don’t know about texas law or federal law but Florida law is clear that lying to people to coerce them to cross state lines is a human trafficking violation.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/texas-sheriff-investigates-migrant-relocation-to-marthas-vineyard-11663689981
frugal-one
9-21-22, 9:09am
Looks like trump should be worried… his special master is not behaving the way he wants. We can only hope….
Snippet..
But Dearie said that if Trump’s lawyers will not actually assert that the records have been declassified, and the DoJ makes an acceptable case that they remain classified, he will be inclined to regard them as classified.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/21/trump-special-master-documents-declassified
catherine
9-21-22, 10:27am
You can thank Trump for this trend; he never bothers to hide his criminality, knowing that he'll never have to pay for it. He never has.
At least he's never stood in the middle of 5th Avenue and shot anyone yet.
At least he's never stood in the middle of 5th Avenue and shot anyone yet.
Well there's that. But I bet he envies Putin's ability to neutralize his enemies--quite a few lately--at a dizzying clip. :0!
frugal-one
9-21-22, 5:30pm
trump and 3 of his kids accused of business fraud by New York AG.... hope they get more than a slap!!!!!!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/donald-trump-3-of-his-children-accused-of-business-fraud-by-new-york-ag/ar-AA125qry
trump and 3 of his kids accused of business fraud by New York AG.... hope they get more than a slap!!!!!!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/donald-trump-3-of-his-children-accused-of-business-fraud-by-new-york-ag/ar-AA125qry
It's a civil case, not criminal. I'm guessing that's because there's not enough there there for anything more.
frugal-one
9-21-22, 5:47pm
It's a civil case, not criminal. I'm guessing that's because there's not enough there there for anything more.
Wait...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/new-york-lawsuit-against-trump-family-could-prompt-new-federal-criminal-inquiries/ar-AA126ekS
Plus he has so many other cases in the works. I don't see how he can come through unscathed (nor should he because he is not supposed to be above the law).
iris lilies
9-21-22, 5:49pm
I wonder if the Trump haters, all of them and me included would take this deal with the devil:
Trump goes away permanently from politics in exchange for dropping all of the current, outstanding legal issues against him everywhere.
For me, that is a deal I would take in a New York minute.
frugal-one
9-21-22, 5:52pm
I wonder if the Trump haters, all of them and me included would take this deal with the devil:
Trump goes away permanently from politics in exchange for dropping all of the current, outstanding legal issues against him everywhere
For me, that is a deal I would take in a New York minute.
I would LOVE to see him gone in any way possible but feel he should have to pay the price as anyone else would have to pay. he is not special.
I wonder if the Trump haters, all of them and me included would take this deal with the devil:
I'm not a Trump-hater, as such.
However, I do believe that if you do the crime, you should do the time. And not be able to use your wealth, power, and the fear you inspire to avoid justice.
If he did anything, let's follow the same process that any other citizen would go through and see how that goes.
iris lilies
9-21-22, 6:36pm
But in my fantasy deal with the devil, would you take it?Trump goes away permenantly in exchange for all current legal threats and charges dropped.
Deal?
Teacher Terry
9-21-22, 6:59pm
No deal IL. I want him to pay the price for his crimes unless by disappearing you mean dying.
IL will get her deal eventually because Trump is old and overweight and will die and no one will bother to prosecute once he is gone.
ApatheticNoMore
9-21-22, 7:15pm
Bet his whole family is in on the grift though.
iris lilies
9-21-22, 7:21pm
No deal IL. I want him to pay the price for his crimes unless by disappearing you mean dying.
So, you will risk him being President of the United States again. Alrighty then.
If it can be proved that he is involved in espionage--like selling classified information to Putin, I don't believe he will be allowed to just walk away.
iris lilies
9-21-22, 8:40pm
If it can be proved that he is involved in espionage--like selling classified information to Putin, I don't believe he will be allowed to just walk away.
You all remind me of the romance scammer victims I have been watching on Youtube. Hope springs eternal with them:Just another $3,200 will get their boyfriend home. Then another $1480. Next week it is $16,780. Then,…wait!here is the BIG event that will finally get their boyfriend into their arms from his oil rig/prison/hospital bed etc. and it is $138,000!
with Trump you all are saying “THIS time we will get him! “ yet he wiggles out of jail time over and over.
Whatever happens, Trump will have the best lawyers in the world. I imagine the bar is high for conviction. In fact it should be because isn’t espionage a capital offense? Don’t you all often tell me you would rather see someone go free than be wrongly convicted and given the chair?
People, take the deal. Say goodbye to Trump.
frugal-one
9-21-22, 8:49pm
trump is known not to pay his lawyers. Heard tell he had to pay $3 million up front for the current one....
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/trump-hired-credible-attorney-pay-lot-upfront-rcna48109
trump will not be wrongly convicted. There is so much evidence against him plus many people who can testify.
IL maybe you should start a new thread that is a poll.. As others have stated, rump should be subject to the law as we all are... no special treatment.
Judging from the lawyers he currently has he most certainly will not have the best. Even his bought and paid for judge can only protect him so much. Her delusions of a Supreme Court appointment fit right in with IL’s romance fantasy.
You all remind me of the romance scammer victims I have been watching on Youtube. Hope springs eternal with them:Just another $3,200 will get their boyfriend home. Then another $1480. Next week it is $16,780. Then,…wait!here is the BIG event that will finally get their boyfriend into their arms from his oil rig/prison/hospital bed etc. and it is $138,000!
with Trump you all are saying “THIS time we will get him! “ yet he wiggles out of jail time over and over.
Whatever happens, Trump will have the best lawyers in the world. I imagine the bar is high for conviction. In fact it should be because isn’t espionage a capital offense? Don’t you all often tell me you would rather see someone go free than be wrongly convicted and given the chair?
People, take the deal. Say goodbye to Trump.
You may very well be right, considering his history.
Those romance scams are fascinating to me. I don't understand how anyone, no matter how lonely, could be taken in by them. Unless you were a close relative or a lifetime friend, there's no way I'd send you any meaningful amount of money, let alone my life savings. Mind-boggling.
Spending $1.6m of tax money to pay a big Republican donor to fly 50 immigrants from not Florida to not Florida. Republican fiscal responsibility at its finest.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/florida-migrant-moving-company-gave-gop-cash-ties-desantis-immigration-rcna48967
flowerseverywhere
9-22-22, 10:19pm
Spending $1.6m of tax money to pay a big Republican donor to fly 50 immigrants from not Florida to not Florida. Republican fiscal responsibility at its finest.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/florida-migrant-moving-company-gave-gop-cash-ties-desantis-immigration-rcna48967
He has twelve million to spend on migrant relocation but these souls were not in Florida and were here legally. Last night someone told me every penny is worth it because DeSantis made a bold statement. Some people have so much hate in their hearts they will defend anything. Of course some people are speaking out but he has a hold on republicans and is very clever and much smarter than Trump I think.
In other news, the special master is one tough cookie. I guess today, after Trump told Sean Hannity the FBI planted documents he wanted proof of that in a signed statement. And famous Alex Jones is is making an ass out of himself in court. Maybe all the liers are finally facing the music. I predict once midterms are over more Republicans will denounce or distance from Trump. Plus the NY indictment. Interesting that no other Republican or Democratic president had anywhere near the lawsuits, accusations and investigations surrounding trump.
I hope someone saved the gallows the Jan 6 tourists put up.
Interesting that no other Republican or Democratic president had anywhere near the lawsuits, accusations and investigations surrounding trump.
Yeah but bill Clinton lied about a blowjob…
flowerseverywhere
9-23-22, 7:12am
I hope someone saved the gallows the Jan 6 tourists put up.
I shudder when I think what could have happened on that day, although it certainly was horrible enough. An angry mob out of control. Pence or Pelisi could have been killed.
iris lilies
9-23-22, 10:21am
He has twelve million to spend on migrant relocation but these souls were not in Florida and were here legally. Last night someone told me every penny is worth it because DeSantis made a bold statement. Some people have so much hate in their hearts they will defend anything. Of course some people are speaking out but he has a hold on republicans and is very clever and much smarter than Trump I think.
In other news, the special master is one tough cookie. I guess today, after Trump told Sean Hannity the FBI planted documents he wanted proof of that in a signed statement. And famous Alex Jones is is making an ass out of himself in court. Maybe all the liers are finally facing the music. I predict once midterms are over more Republicans will denounce or distance from Trump. Plus the NY indictment. Interesting that no other Republican or Democratic president had anywhere near the lawsuits, accusations and investigations surrounding trump.
flowers, I do feel sorry for you, having a governor who is playing to the cameras for a possible Presidential run. That would annoy me greatly, that he is grandstanding rather than tending to business of my state.
That said, I like DeSantis well enough and will gladly vote for him over Trump. I wish him well, very well, in a showdown with Trump. He has governed well IMHO. He is smart, not only politically smart, but intelligent and hardworking. I do not know where exactly he comes down in traditional conservative values but I am guessing he is more thoughtfully conservative in those principles than is Trump.
"I do not know where exactly he comes down in traditional conservative values but I am guessing he is more thoughtfully conservative in those principles than is Trump."
That's a low bar, as Trump's never had even the slightest interest in the workings of government, save what's in it for him.
But in my fantasy deal with the devil, would you take it?Trump goes away permenantly in exchange for all current legal threats and charges dropped.
Deal?
Nope. I'd like to see the legal system convict Trump of felonies committed and exposed as a con man. He may not permanently go away, but would be significantly diminished and there would be some legal precedence to discourage others from following in his footsteps.
frugal-one
9-23-22, 2:25pm
flowers, I do feel sorry for you, having a governor who is playing to the cameras for a possible Presidential run. That would annoy me greatly, that he is grandstanding rather than tending to business of my state.
That said, I like DeSantis well enough and will gladly vote for him over Trump. I wish him well, very well, in a showdown with Trump. He has governed well IMHO. He is smart, not only politically smart, but intelligent and hardworking. I do not know where exactly he comes down in traditional conservative values but I am guessing he is more thoughtfully conservative in those principles than is Trump.
You need to do more research. Guessing doesn't cut it. If you remember, trump endorsed him. Now he is an adversary so that is not the case. We can only hope some truly "conservative" republican" comes forward.
flowerseverywhere
9-24-22, 2:40pm
flowers, I do feel sorry for you, having a governor who is playing to the cameras for a possible Presidential run. That would annoy me greatly, that he is grandstanding rather than tending to business of my state.
That said, I like DeSantis well enough and will gladly vote for him over Trump. I wish him well, very well, in a showdown with Trump. He has governed well IMHO. He is smart, not only politically smart, but intelligent and hardworking. I do not know where exactly he comes down in traditional conservative values but I am guessing he is more thoughtfully conservative in those principles than is Trump.
I agree that speaking at rally’s around the country, probably on our dime is very annoying. I guess Florida has no problems he could work on . He is being sued for firing an elected official so what he may be all about may come to light
I’m interested to know what you would call traditional conservative values. I remember Bush the greater being a family man. He was not boastful or mean. He was for smaller government and family values. I don’t recall him spending huge amounts of time traveling and spending wads of cash at his own properties and he was not constantly stirring up the pot. He was liked by the right and at least tolerated if not liked well enough by the left. Kind of the opposite of our last president.
iris lilies
9-24-22, 3:43pm
I agree that speaking at rally’s around the country, probably on our dime is very annoying. I guess Florida has no problems he could work on . He is being sued for firing an elected official so what he may be all about may come to light
I’m interested to know what you would call traditional conservative values. I remember Bush the greater being a family man. He was not boastful or mean. He was for smaller government and family values. I don’t recall him spending huge amounts of time traveling and spending wads of cash at his own properties and he was not constantly stirring up the pot. He was liked by the right and at least tolerated if not liked well enough by the left. Kind of the opposite of our last president.
Right, I am well aware of Governor DeSantis’ action in firing an elected prosecutor. When I first heard about it, related to me by a liberal voting friend, I thought that might not be a good idea or even a constitutionally supported idea. You (the generic you) have to be careful in removing from office an elected-by-the-people officer holder. The people are in charge.
However, the prosecutor openly said he would not prosecute crime he didn’t believe should be on the books. Well, he doesn’t get to decide that although granted, prosecutors do not go after every crime because they look for evidence to convict, and even cops don’t go after every crime.
But I wondered in my own little prosecutorial blue area how that would embolden our own city prosecutor who flagrantly fails to prosecute, sometimes due to lack of resources due to her own mismanagement and sometimes for her own idealogical reasons.
But then I read that DeSantis DOES have the constitutionally given power to remove from office elected officials who fail to do their job.
This Florida prosecutor stated he wouldn’t do his job.
Making a grandstand declaration “I will not prosecute [certain ] laws” is a BIG noisy political position and the governor has the right AND the responsibility to address that bullshxt.
It looks as though a judge agrees that
DeSantis has the constitutionally required authority to remove that prosecutor.
flowerseverywhere
9-24-22, 4:09pm
Here is an interesting opinion about a sheriff which is making the AG say his firing is political
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/editorials/os-op-dennis-lemma-constitutional-sheriffs-gun-laws-20200121-sshjhfcefjd7xdsx7zksc5qacq-story.html
I'm not saying I agree with anything just more drama
iris lilies
9-24-22, 4:11pm
And speaking of elected prosecutors who should be removed from office by the governor of the state, our own city prosecutor lied on a super high profile case, and was brought up on ethics charges for it. The lying prosecutor got off by a plea agreement where she stated she had “made mistakes” in her handling of the politically charged case.
While I would like our governor to remove her for the incompetence she shows again and again in addition to her political avenger-lying actions, I do not know if he has the constitutional authority. And realistically, the cesspool that is St.Louis would just elect someone else likely as bad.
iris lilies
9-24-22, 4:15pm
Here is an interesting opinion about a sheriff which is making the AG say his firing is political
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/editorials/os-op-dennis-lemma-constitutional-sheriffs-gun-laws-20200121-sshjhfcefjd7xdsx7zksc5qacq-story.html
I'm not saying I agree with anything just more drama
This article references an entirely theoretical discussion.
why don’t you and I talk when the “constitutional amendment” referenced in this article goes through. Hint: that will be the 12th of never.
frugal-one
9-25-22, 9:39am
The polls show Most republicans (61%) support declaring the US a Christian nation…. meaning those not a christian lose a variety of rights.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_nationalism
Critics have raised concerns about racist tendencies, male violence, and anti-democratic sentiment that is often associated with the modern white Christian nationalist movement.[23][24]
Shows Putin embraces this stance. Not a government we should emulate IMO!!!
Why NOT to vote republican!!!
flowerseverywhere
9-25-22, 3:34pm
This article references an entirely theoretical discussion.
why don’t you and I talk when the “constitutional amendment” referenced in this article goes through. Hint: that will be the 12th of never.
but I agree with you. The arguments put forth by the talking heads, political ads and candidates are ridiculous. Whether you watch CNN or Fox or whatever are meaningless unless you look into the issue yourself. But none of us are constitutional experts in my opinion. Even the Supreme Court justices don’t agree after years of study. It will play out in the courts at taxpayer expense. And as usual the mantra of distract, exaggerate or make up claims continues to bombard voters.
frugal-one
9-26-22, 4:44pm
Asshole republicans... trying to kill women. Hope they rot in hell.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/20/politics/abortion-bans-murder-charges-invs/index.html
Asshole republicans... trying to kill women. Hope they rot in hell.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/20/politics/abortion-bans-murder-charges-invs/index.html
Women are just vessels--a means to an end. Didn't you know that?
As my friend would say "they walk among us."
littlebittybobby
9-27-22, 11:12pm
Okay---Where are we on this debate? I have no time to sit here, and split hairs and go back and forth. See? I'm so thoroughly polarized at this point, that I hope to wake up in a world with no "liberals", or illiberal liberals. But yeah--I'll be voting by the same old present-your-ID at the polling place at the Church nearby, and vote straight-ticket, except for Libertarians. Yup. Unless--there's a save-the-animals candidate, running as an independent. Then sure. Hope that helps you kids some. Thankk Mee.
Apparently now it’s acceptable for Republican state attorneys general to run from process servers and then lie later, claiming that they didn’t know who the person was. (Despite the process server having handed their card to the AG’s wife 20 minutes earlier). The absolute contempt that republicans take towards law and order ought to be remarkable but it’s become so commonplace that it just gets accepted.
iris lilies
9-28-22, 2:13pm
Now President Biden hints he may not run. That would be nice. He is too old. He is making so many errors in speech that even mainstream media is now covering it. Looks like he’s not their darling any more.
He said this during the recent 60 Minites tv show interview:
“Look, my intention as I said to begin with is that I would run again," the president said. "But it's just an intention. But is it a firm decision that I run again? That remains to be seen."
There should be a mandatory retirement age for politicians and judges.
Now President Biden hints he may not run. That would be nice. He is too old. He is making so many errors in speech that even mainstream media is now covering it. Looks like he’s not there darling at the moment.
This morning he was speaking at the White House Conference on Hunger, Nutrition and Health and wanted to recognize someone who was a past co-chair of the House Hunger Caucus. He looked around the room and asked "Jackie are you here? Where's Jackie? I think....she was going to be here". He apparently forgot that Representative Jackie Walorski died in a car crash nearly 2 months ago.
There should be a mandatory retirement age for politicians and judges.
Agree 100%.
iris lilies
9-28-22, 4:13pm
This morning he was speaking at the White House Conference on Hunger, Nutrition and Health and wanted to recognize someone who was a past co-chair of the House Hunger Caucus. He looked around the room and asked "Jackie are you here? Where's Jackie? I think....she was going to be here". He apparently forgot that Representative Jackie Walorski died in a car crash nearly 2 months ago.
Yeah that’s another incident, they pile up.
Oh but this is a thread about why not to vote for Republicans.
ApatheticNoMore
9-28-22, 4:24pm
Oh but this is a thread about why not to vote for Republicans.
Yes because I don't think most people who voted for Biden care about that AT ALL. I mean he wasn't many people's first choice in the primaries (nearly my last choice though a few who went absolutely nowhere were worse). But hey lot's of dumb voters in this country and he was the Dem nominee - shrug, what can you do, this country and it's dumb voters. And the states given strategic importance in the Dem primaries mostly don't vote for Dems in the general anyway, so it gives a pretty skewed (but more electable? who knows) take.
But after he was the nominee, I and I'm sure I am far from alone figured we would rather have whatever was the Dem machine running things than Trump. Even if Biden ran little, Dem machine versus Trump. So it never was really about Biden at all. Now did I anticipate they would do a better job than they have? Well yes, in terms of basic competence (not some super high expectation), I expected the Dem machine to do better, but we definitely didn't have that with Trump either.
Oh but this is a thread about why not to vote for Republicans.
Yeah, but it's only real premise is for a few people to attempt to publicly justify their hatred for anyone without the correct political ideology. It got boring about 900 posts ago.
I don't hate the "never-Trumper" Republicans and former Republicans I'm aware of (and it seems there are a large number of them), even though we have areas of disagreement ("the correct political ideology"). I'm not particularly inclined to hatred, but I make exceptions for bigots and bullies.
I'm not particularly inclined to hatred, but I make exceptions for bigots and bullies.
I don't hate them. I pity them.
What trauma happened to drive them to their behaviour? At one point, they were happy little kids without a care in the world, and then something changed...
I don't hate them. I pity them.
What trauma happened to drive them to their behaviour? At one point, they were happy little kids without a care in the world, and then something changed...
They were probably miserable little wretches tormenting small animals for fun...
OK--I acknowledge your position, but I wonder what Tucker Carlson was like as a child--Little Lord Fauntleroy? Lauren Boebert--the Bad Seed? Potential party game.
frugal-one
9-28-22, 5:09pm
Yes because I don't think most people who voted for Biden care about that AT ALL. I mean he wasn't many people's first choice in the primaries (nearly my last choice though a few who went absolutely nowhere were worse). But hey lot's of dumb voters in this country and he was the Dem nominee - shrug, what can you do, this country and it's dumb voters. And the states given strategic importance in the Dem primaries mostly don't vote for Dems in the general anyway, so it gives a pretty skewed (but more electable? who knows) take.
But after he was the nominee, I and I'm sure I am far from alone figured we would rather have whatever was the Dem machine running things than Trump. Even if Biden ran little, Dem machine versus Trump. So it never was really about Biden at all. Now did I anticipate they would do a better job than they have? Well yes, in terms of basic competence (not some super high expectation), I expected the Dem machine to do better, but we definitely didn't have that with Trump either.
This. Never trump.
frugal-one
9-28-22, 5:11pm
Yeah, but it's only real premise is for a few people to attempt to publicly justify their hatred for anyone without the correct political ideology. It got boring about 900 posts ago.
There isn't a correct political ideology. It is about decent, human beings. The premise of the current republican party has deteriorated so that they no longer meet this criteria.
There isn't a correct political ideology.
I think there's something to that. Our political discourse, especially on the national level, has drifted away from how best to oversee and provide security to a collection of states to a more culturally based enforcement bureau designed to reward members of whichever party is currently in power and punish members of the opposition.
I blame most of this on media, all media be it newspapers, tv news, social media, whatever, who all exist not to provide a public service but rather to inflame the emotions of its consumers in order to build a brand loyalty and keep those consumers coming back for more. You couple that with a political environment where power can only be held by appealing to those emotions by ensuring that the other side is seen as an enemy and you end up with threads like this.
You also end up with official governmental activities such as the Jan 6 Committee whose goal is not to root out and punish offenders but to establish a narrative that the other side is bad. You can see that in the fact that all hearings are staged for the media, even to the point that they hired a TV producer to oversee the events and witnesses are chosen based upon their ability to provide the proper narrative. It's especially obvious today where the regularly scheduled episode was canceled, not because they had other things to do, but because a hurricane has struck Florida and usurped their TV time. If they can't promote their 'other side is bad' narrative to millions of people on any given day, that day is not worth doing.
I .
...
You also end up with official governmental activities such as the Jan 6 Committee whose goal is not to root out and punish offenders but to establish a narrative that the other side is bad. You can see that in the fact that all hearings are staged for the media, even to the point that they hired a TV producer to oversee the events and witnesses are chosen based upon their ability to provide ..the proper narrative. It's especially obvious today where the regularly scheduled episode was canceled, not because they had other things to do, but because a hurricane has struck Florida and usurped their TV time. If they can't promote their 'other side is bad' narrative to millions of people on any given day, that day is not worth doing.
I'm curious as to how you might frame an investigation into an attempt--by planned disruption and violence--to overthrow an election in some more "even-handed" way. It was an ugly chapter in the nation's history, and I can't see it otherwise. I have visions of Matt Gaetz and Jim Jordan yelling "Antifa! and "BLM!" though there was no evidence at all of them being there, or maybe pulling the "rowdy tourist" trope out of their bag of tricks.
“Unruly tourists”
Yes--I added that to my post, belatedly. I don't have a problem with shades of difference; we all should have a problem with outright lies.
frugal-one
9-29-22, 11:17am
I think there's something to that. Our political discourse, especially on the national level, has drifted away from how best to oversee and provide security to a collection of states to a more culturally based enforcement bureau designed to reward members of whichever party is currently in power and punish members of the opposition.
I blame most of this on media, all media be it newspapers, tv news, social media, whatever, who all exist not to provide a public service but rather to inflame the emotions of its consumers in order to build a brand loyalty and keep those consumers coming back for more. You couple that with a political environment where power can only be held by appealing to those emotions by ensuring that the other side is seen as an enemy and you end up with threads like this.
You also end up with official governmental activities such as the Jan 6 Committee whose goal is not to root out and punish offenders but to establish a narrative that the other side is bad. You can see that in the fact that all hearings are staged for the media, even to the point that they hired a TV producer to oversee the events and witnesses are chosen based upon their ability to provide the proper narrative. It's especially obvious today where the regularly scheduled episode was canceled, not because they had other things to do, but because a hurricane has struck Florida and usurped their TV time. If they can't promote their 'other side is bad' narrative to millions of people on any given day, that day is not worth doing.
You twist the facts to meet your agenda OR because you don’t want to face reality. My guess is the later. And, yes they are showing the perpetrators are bad… which is an understatement. How you can infer otherwise is unconscionable…. they tried to overthrow the government and wanted to hang the VP!!!
I listened live to most of the Watergate hearings. There wasn't a phalanx of Republicans trying to obfuscate, excuse, or defend Nixon--who was half the crook Trump is. How times change.
catherine
9-29-22, 11:37am
I blame most of this on media, all media be it newspapers, tv news, social media, whatever, who all exist not to provide a public service but rather to inflame the emotions of its consumers in order to build a brand loyalty and keep those consumers coming back for more. You couple that with a political environment where power can only be held by appealing to those emotions by ensuring that the other side is seen as an enemy and you end up with threads like this.
You also end up with official governmental activities such as the Jan 6 Committee whose goal is not to root out and punish offenders but to establish a narrative that the other side is bad. You can see that in the fact that all hearings are staged for the media, even to the point that they hired a TV producer to oversee the events and witnesses are chosen based upon their ability to provide the proper narrative. It's especially obvious today where the regularly scheduled episode was canceled, not because they had other things to do, but because a hurricane has struck Florida and usurped their TV time. If they can't promote their 'other side is bad' narrative to millions of people on any given day, that day is not worth doing.
I completely agree with the first paragraph excerpted here.
As for the second--what would you call, not "bad," (which carries moralistic tones) but maybe "undesirable" in our democracy? If not an attempted coup, what? It would be better if we stop trying to create Marvel comic book heroes and villains out of our legislators and their constituents--which as you said, is totally perpetrated by the media--but let's get real. People were incited by our outgoing President to attack the Capitol building and inflict harm on people who were trying to uphold the democratic process most of us are happy to abide by. Is that a response you find to be OK? I don't blame the Republican Party for that horrific response to January 6 proceedings, but I blame them if they support the players--either by overt or tacit agreement with the behavior or by keeping quiet in order to follow the Party line and protect their own agendas.
iris lilies
9-29-22, 12:01pm
You twist the facts to meet your agenda OR because you don’t want to face reality…!
Wait, I thought Alan’s problem was that his head was in the sand. Can he twist facts with his head in the sand? Can one do any twisting at all with one’s head stuck in sand?
Also, another question I’ve been wanting to ask you – you use a lot of !!! in your writing. Do you think if you use one or two more !’s you would convince me of anything? Is good debate technique just a matter of quantity of exclamation points?
I completely agree with the first paragraph excerpted here.
As for the second--what would you call, not "bad," (which carries moralistic tones) but maybe "undesirable" in our democracy? If not an attempted coup, what? It would be better if we stop trying to create Marvel comic book heroes and villains out of our legislators and their constituents--which as you said, is totally perpetrated by the media--but let's get real. People were incited by our outgoing President to attack the Capitol building and inflict harm on people who were trying to uphold the democratic process most of us are happy to abide by. Is that a response you find to be OK? I don't blame the Republican Party for that horrific response to January 6 proceedings, but I blame them if they support the players--either by overt or tacit agreement with the behavior or by keeping quiet in order to follow the Party line and protect their own agendas.
Not a few Republicans--like Barry Loudermilk, Lauren Boebert and others--actively aided the insurrectionists, and countless others--including Trump--are still championing the thugs who carried it off.
iris lilies
9-29-22, 12:58pm
I completely agree with the first paragraph excerpted here.
As for the second--what would you call, not "bad," (which carries moralistic tones) but maybe "undesirable" in our democracy? If not an attempted coup, what? It would be better if we stop trying to create Marvel comic book heroes and villains out of our legislators and their constituents--which as you said, is totally perpetrated by the media--but let's get real. People were incited by our outgoing President to attack the Capitol building and inflict harm on people who were trying to uphold the democratic process most of us are happy to abide by. Is that a response you find to be OK? I don't blame the Republican Party for that horrific response to January 6 proceedings, but I blame them if they support the players--either by overt or tacit agreement with the behavior or by keeping quiet in order to follow the Party line and protect their own agendas.
I want the perpetrators of January 6 to be prosecuted. I do not have evidence that is not happening. I do not want the Republican party as a whole to support the craziness of January 6. Whether Donald Trump meets a legal definition of responsibility for January 6 is Not clear to me but I know to others here it’s a slam dunk. Life is easy in black and white land.
Yeah I wish the whole thing wasn’t “political “but everything is political and most things these days are performed for the cameras. That is unfortunate for our democracy.
What is slam dunk for me is that Donald Trump is not temperamentally suited to be the President of the United States and I will have to actively vote against him next time around if he’s on the ballot. This is why I like Ron DeSantis who not only seems rational, he is YOUNG.
And once again republicans keep pretending that Jan 6 was a discrete event and not part of a significantly bigger plot to overturn the election. Alan may or may not have his head in the sand, but Iris you certainly do.
frugal-one
9-29-22, 4:03pm
Wait, I thought Alan’s problem was that his head was in the sand. Can he twist facts with his head in the sand? Can one do any twisting at all with one’s head stuck in sand?
Also, another question I’ve been wanting to ask you – you use a lot of !!! in your writing. Do you think if you use one or two more !’s you would convince me of anything? Is good debate technique just a matter of quantity of exclamation points?
Not facing reality is the same as putting one's head in the sand. Don't want to see what they don't want to see. I only use exclamation points when warranted IMO.... extreme behavior is one! Some people capitalize or use other modes of conveyance YLMV. It is evident those that don't want to see ... won't. It is exasperating though when they try to justify the unjustifiable .... hang Mike Pence or try to overthrow the government are prime examples.
I think it's clear why the January 6 Committee wants to get their findings in front of the public--and not allow them to be buried as the Mueller Report was--because it's critical that Americans see the extent of the crime and the evidence for it.
ApatheticNoMore
9-29-22, 7:41pm
This is why I like Ron DeSantis who not only seems rational, he is YOUNG.
thinking gosh he doesn't look it. Ok he looks 50 something but apparently is actually 44, not that that is young.
thinking gosh he doesn't look it. Ok he looks 50 something but apparently is actually 44, not that that is young.
44 is only 9 years older than the constitutional minimum age for the office, and it's the same age as my daughter. I think that's young.
I think it's clear why the January 6 Committee wants to get their findings in front of the public--and not allow them to be buried as the Mueller Report was--because it's critical that Americans see the extent of the crime and the evidence for it.
Buried? You can get it from Amazon for $26.19.
frugal-one
9-30-22, 8:15am
Buried? You can get it from Amazon for $26.19.
Who ever would think to check Amazon? That is buried for many (including me). Sad commentary above.
You shouldn't have to pay $26.19 to find out the president was colluding with Putin.
This is why I like Ron DeSantis who not only seems rational, he is YOUNG.
Plus, he has nice hair, which could be as important as youth.
I wonder if Bernie will expose us to more snarling in a presidential bid.
You shouldn't have to pay $26.19 to find out the president was colluding with Putin.
If there is damning evidence available, why isn’t it being broadcast far and wide for free? What do you think is being suppressed, and who do you think is doing the suppressing?
If Trump’s enemies were willing to spend big money on the Steele dossier or supporting Trumpy candidates, do you really think resources are lacking to spread any truths uncovered by Mueller’s investigation?
iris lilies
9-30-22, 10:31am
Who ever would think to check Amazon? That is buried for many (including me). Sad commentary above.
The information is out there for heaven’s sake. The only reason it is “buried “in your mind is because mainstream media has moved on to other issues as they always do.
iris lilies
9-30-22, 11:36am
If there is damning evidence available, why isn’t it being broadcast far and wide for free? What do you think is being suppressed, and who do you think is doing the suppressing?
If Trump’s enemies were willing to spend big money on the Steele dossier or supporting Trumpy candidates, do you really think resources are lacking to spread any truths uncovered by Mueller’s investigation?
Agreed. I think Jane and etc. just want the information out there in front of everybody all the time. So mainstream media is not covering their issues. To that I say, ladies, welcome to my world.
frugal-one
9-30-22, 8:22pm
Agreed. I think Jane and etc. just want the information out there in front of everybody all the time. So mainstream media is not covering their issues. To that I say, ladies, welcome to my world.
What, never checking things out but listening to people that you think are "credible"? No thanks.
I agree with Jane.
frugal-one
9-30-22, 8:24pm
]If there is damning evidence available, why isn’t it being broadcast far and wide for free? [/B] What do you think is being suppressed, and who do you think is doing the suppressing?
If Trump’s enemies were willing to spend big money on the Steele dossier or supporting Trumpy candidates, do you really think resources are lacking to spread any truths uncovered by Mueller’s investigation?
You say this. Then it is said things like the Jan 6 hearings should not be broadcast. Jeez..... I hope the whole lot of crooks are sent uphill.
iris lilies
9-30-22, 9:37pm
What, never checking things out but listening to people that you think are "credible"? No thanks.
I agree with Jane.
Yes, I think it is important to listen to credible people. YMMV
You say this. Then it is said things like the Jan 6 hearings should not be broadcast. Jeez..... I hope the whole lot of crooks are sent uphill.
I didn't say it shouldn't be broadcast, I implied that it shouldn't be used as a partisan political tool, enhanced for maximum effect to smear an entire political party. The investigation is conducted in private and the preferred narrative is scripted by show business professionals and presented without benefit of debate or cross examination. We'll probably never know the actual results.
About half the population loves it and the other half see's that the real investigation is being bastardized by political theater.
So what part of the public hearings are lies? And how exactly do you expect democrats to be implicated in a Republican plan to overturn the election?
frugal-one
10-1-22, 2:24am
I didn't say it shouldn't be broadcast, I implied that it shouldn't be used as a partisan political tool, enhanced for maximum effect to smear an entire political party. The investigation is conducted in private and the preferred narrative is scripted by show business professionals and presented without benefit of debate or cross examination. We'll probably never know the actual results.
About half the population loves it and the other half see's that the real investigation is being bastardized by political theater.
When an entire party is in cahoots such as during Jan 6th…. immediately after the incident republicans were ostracizing the perpetrators and now comparing Capitol rioters to tourists… Talk about a complete travesty! There is no smear campaign …. just a relaying of facts for the public to see. If you watched the hearings a few brave people (republicans) came forward and told what transpired behind the scenes….thereby, being shown the results. Shocking to say the least! We all should be sickened by what the “republican” party has become.
rosarugosa
10-1-22, 6:09am
Plus, he has nice hair, which could be as important as youth.
I wonder if Bernie will expose us to more snarling in a presidential bid.
I used to have an admittedly crackpot theory that the candidate with the best hair wins, but Trump certainly disproved that one in 2016.
iris lilies
10-1-22, 8:30am
I used to have an admittedly crackpot theory that the candidate with the best hair wins, but Trump certainly disproved that one in 2016.
I agree that Hillary’s hair was nicer.
I wonder what a truly educated, informed population would look like.
We've can see the opposite in Russia, the international poster child for "I don't care about politics." Man in the street interviews suggest that most citizens there are ignorant, apathetic, scared, or all three. All of a sudden it's hitting them that it's not just ethnic minorities in the East who are being sent to near-certain death or dismemberment.
I, for one, don't want to live in a country where plausible deniability is a national pastime.
frugal-one
10-1-22, 2:22pm
Plausible deniability .... exactly what is happening... from the "republicans"
littlebittybobby
10-2-22, 11:12am
Okay----I'm beginning to like what summa those political subdivisions are doing---holding primaries in which ALL the candidates are together on the ballot, and the top two vote-getters are on the ballot for the general election. See? It would still be beneficial to have a significant multi-party system, that fields candidates who promote their platform & personal agenda. As it is, we have a system of fanatic partisanship, with only two brands on the shelf. Not good. See? So, yeah---I have no problem with two dems or two Repubs or two national socialists' or whatever, on the November(runoff) ballot, opposing each other. This I believe would: A) lead to less mindless fanatical partisanship; and B) Restore the concept of representative democracy to this country. Yup. Hope that helps you kids some. And, as always----4864
iris lilies
10-2-22, 11:18am
Okay----I'm beginning to like what summa those political subdivisions are doing---holding primary runoffs in which ALL the candidates are on the ballot, and the top two vote-getters are on the ballot for the general election. See? It would be beneficial to have a significant multi-party system, that fields candidates who promote their platform & personal agenda. As it is, we have a system of fanatic partisanship, with only two brands on the shelf. Not good. See? So, yeah---I have no problem with two dems or two Repubs or two national socialists' or whatever, on the November(runoff) ballot, opposing each other. This I believe would: A) lead to less mindless fanatical partisanship; and B) Restore the concept of representative democracy to this country. Yup. Hope that helps you kids some. And, as always----4864
I think I like the runoff system too, bobby. Sometimes good candidates with crossover appeal are knocked out of straight party-to-party conflicts. I am not entirely sure of consequences of this new voting method, but am keeping an eye on it.
I love the jungle primary system. California has done it for everything but president for a decade or so. In 2018 it resulted in an actual viable competitor for Diane Fienstein for senate instead of a republican who would have had zero chance of winning.
iris lilies
10-2-22, 11:40am
I love the jungle primary system. California has done it for everything but president for a decade or so. In 2018 it resulted in an actual viable competitor for Diane Fienstein for senate instead of a republican who would have had zero chance of winning.
Yes, in city politics often the strongest candidates are from the same party.
rosarugosa
10-3-22, 6:26am
Maybe a different system would have provided a pathway for a political future for Charlie Baker. He's the most popular governor in the US, but he is not running for re-election. Apparently he has no future in the Republican party because he is not Republican enough, or RINO. I like him a lot and I really appreciated his leadership during the worst of the pandemic. He definitely has cross-over appeal for Dems and Independents.
He sounds like our Governor Larry Hogan. He was superb during the pandemic. Republican in a very Democrat state. He negotiates well and compromises. He is NOT supporting the Trump candidate who won the primary. He also said he did not vote for Trump in either election. He's had 2 terms so cannot run again.
The big end of the year county fair in Maine had ranked voting for the Best Fiber Art, so I guess the ranked voting we have is now trickling down to life in the real world.
rosarugosa
10-3-22, 1:28pm
He sounds like our Governor Larry Hogan. He was superb during the pandemic. Republican in a very Democrat state. He negotiates well and compromises. He is NOT supporting the Trump candidate who won the primary. He also said he did not vote for Trump in either election. He's had 2 terms so cannot run again.
Same dynamic here; we are a very blue state that often elects a moderate Republican governor and it seems to work quite well for us. Baker also made no secret of his dislike for Trump. We need people who can compromise and reach across the aisle or I fear we are doomed.
We also need politicians with enough integrity to not continue supporting their party’s leader if he goes full traitor and attempts a coup to overthrow an election. Until that happens there is no ‘working together’.
ApatheticNoMore
10-3-22, 2:50pm
Maybe a Republican governor and a Dem legislature on the state level works. A Dem governor and a Republican legislature like WI just leads to stripping the governor of all power though,and gerrymandering everything else.
It's a dangerous game of Russian roulette against democracy, and one I am perfectly happy not playing at all (obviously Republicans control nothing much here, fine by me. Then when they try to replace the elected governor they run Larry Elder :laff:, such a joke). And despite the state being very blue I have not noticed the Republican candidates being moderates at all for the most part, just content to always lose pretty much.
frugal-one
10-3-22, 4:20pm
Maybe a Republican governor and a Dem legislature on the state level works. A Dem governor and a Republican legislature like WI just leads to stripping the governor of all power though,and gerrymandering everything else.
It's a dangerous game of Russian roulette against democracy, and one I am perfectly happy not playing at all (obviously Republicans control nothing much here, fine by me. Then when they try to replace the elected governor they run Larry Elder :laff:, such a joke). And despite the state being very blue I have not noticed the Republican candidates being moderates at all for the most part, just content to always lose pretty much.
The newest thing is republicans in WI trying to make into law that if the candidate they want does not win the election, they replace them with the candidate they want. Talk about going against democracy.
Heard this song today...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8S8gWBN9yE
Those in the 60's really took these words to heart. Sadly, they are as relevant now as they were then.
Maybe a Republican governor and a Dem legislature on the state level works. A Dem governor and a Republican legislature like WI just leads to stripping the governor of all power though,and gerrymandering everything else.
The Democrats had a pretty aggressive gerrymander of their own that won approval by the state Supreme Court, but the SCOTUS shot it down in March because it violated the Voting Rights Act. The Democrats’ map diluted the black vote in SE Wisconsin to create more safe districts for their side.
frugal-one
10-3-22, 5:23pm
That is not true. republicans made it difficult for blacks to vote. Blacks had to travel out of their district that was not even covered by a bus route to vote. The republicans are doing whatever they can to make sure the blacks have a difficult time. That is the deal with their gerrymandering.
That is not true. republicans made it difficult for blacks to vote. Blacks had to travel out of their district that was not even covered by a bus route to vote. The republicans are doing whatever they can to make sure the blacks have a difficult time. That is the deal with their gerrymandering.
The district maps cases are a matter or record.
Just as it is a matter of record that Stacey Abrams ridiculous voter suppression suit was recently tossed out.
So apparently Perla, the person that recruited the migrants for desantis’ stunt, has been identified. This may get interesting. Especially as the civil suit against desantis, which also names her, moves forward. Wonder if he paid her enough florida taxpayer money to take the fall.
frugal-one
10-3-22, 8:37pm
[QUOTE=LDAHL;415093]The district maps cases are a matter or record.
That is true. That is why it is apparent republican gerrymandering. Problem in WI is the republicans are trying to make it so they are in control of everything. Wait... not just in WI. Some will go to the supreme court where... republicans are in the majority also. We are doomed in this country.... democracy is on the way out. Like the song says... Eve of Destruction.
Like the song says... Eve of Destruction.
Sounds ominous! But then when you see the lyrics, it sorta makes sense.
Yeah, my blood's so mad, feels like coagulatin'
I'm sittin' here just contemplatin'
I can't twist the truth, it knows no regulation
Handful of Senators don't pass legislation
And marches alone can't bring integration
When human respect is disintegratin'
This whole crazy world is just too frustratin'
And you tell me over and over and over again my friend
Ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction
frugal-one
10-4-22, 7:10am
“you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction”
Disturbing…. to say the least. trump put his henchmen on the supreme court for a reason…
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/moore-v-harper-explained
iris lilies
10-4-22, 11:09am
“you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction”
Disturbing…. to say the least. trump put his henchmen on the supreme court for a reason…
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/moore-v-harper-explained
From this article is this conclusion:
So the fact that four justices voted to hear Moore doesn’t mean that a majority is willing to endorse the unprecedented arguments offered by the state lawmakers in the case. The Court could still reject the theory and reaffirm the way our elections have worked for over two centuries.
so no, it isnt a done deal. But that said—
This is an opinion article. It is the opinion of Berenstein and sweren-Becker. What is YOUR opinion? Are you relying on the opinion of these two authors? Isn’t this exactly what you berate me for doing?
Personally, I think it’s a good article but – it’s just an opinion, a projection of what the United States Supreme Court might do and why.
[QUOTE=LDAHL;415093]The district maps cases are a matter or record.
That is true. That is why it is apparent republican gerrymandering. Problem in WI is the republicans are trying to make it so they are in control of everything. Wait... not just in WI. Some will go to the supreme court where... republicans are in the majority also. We are doomed in this country.... democracy is on the way out. Like the song says... Eve of Destruction.
Control of everything? The Democrats’ gerrymander fell foul of the federal gerrymander mandated by the Voting Rights Act. As to your claim about polling places being affected by redistricting, the number and location of polls is administered by the overlying local governments, which in the case of Milwaukee have been in the hands of the Democratic Party for many years.
And the judge who found Stacey Abrams’ lawsuit to be without merit? An Obama appointee.
If the Republicans are plotting to achieve Space Lizard Overlord status, they certainly seem to have a long way to go.
frugal-one
10-4-22, 4:23pm
From this article is this conclusion:
So the fact that four justices voted to hear Moore doesn’t mean that a majority is willing to endorse the unprecedented arguments offered by the state lawmakers in the case. The Court could still reject the theory and reaffirm the way our elections have worked for over two centuries.
so no, it isnt a done deal. But that said—
This is an opinion article. It is the opinion of Berenstein and sweren-Becker. What is YOUR opinion? Are you relying on the opinion of these two authors? Isn’t this exactly what you berate me for doing?
Personally, I think it’s a good article but – it’s just an opinion, a projection of what the United States Supreme Court might do and why.
This scares the bejesus out of me. This is a bellwether of what may come. Read further up and you will know my stance.
frugal-one
10-4-22, 4:25pm
[QUOTE=frugal-one;415096]
Control of everything? The Democrats’ gerrymander fell foul of the federal gerrymander mandated by the Voting Rights Act. As to your claim about polling places being affected by redistricting, the number and location of polls is administered by the overlying local governments, which in the case of Milwaukee have been in the hands of the Democratic Party for many years.
And the judge who found Stacey Abrams’ lawsuit to be without merit? An Obama appointee.
If the Republicans are plotting to achieve Space Lizard Overlord status, they certainly seem to have a long way to go.
Wrong. There used to be many locations for the black people to vote and then the republicans gerrymandered so there was only one.... not on a bus line.
Weird - my whole state has been vote-by-mail for years now, seems to work well and seems to improve voter turnout.
[QUOTE=LDAHL;415111]
Wrong. There used to be many locations for the black people to vote and then the republicans gerrymandered so there was only one.... not on a bus line.
And once again, a change in the legislative district you live in doesn’t move polling places around. It just changes the choices on your ballot. Changes in polling places are made by your local government officials.
frugal-one
10-4-22, 5:31pm
[QUOTE=frugal-one;415124]
And once again, a change in the legislative district you live in doesn’t move polling places around. It just changes the choices on your ballot. Changes in polling places are made by your local government officials.
https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2022/03/wisconsin-legalizes-racial-gerrymandering/
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/republican-gerrymandering-wisconsin-elections-rcna7229
iris lilies
10-4-22, 7:39pm
[QUOTE=LDAHL;415127]
https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2022/03/wisconsin-legalizes-racial-gerrymandering/
https://www.msnbc.com/the-reidout/reidout-blog/republican-gerrymandering-wisconsin-elections-rcna7229
I am curious as to what you’re trying to convey with the two article links you posted. Neither one of them address the issue you claim, that lack of polling places and adequate bus transportation in black Neighborhoods resulted in them not voting. Sounds to me like you’re just parroting some CNN line and then failing to logically defend it.
As for parties drawing voting districts that favor them, I’m shocked, shocked I tell you that the Republican party would draw districts to favor their outcome! Not. Do you think that’s a new thing?
I heard a long explanation on NPR a few years ago About how algorithmic science is increasingly being used to determine fair versus non-fair voting district lines. It is a complex science. I’m glad I’m not on any court whether state or national Supreme Court to have to determine this issue. It is complicated and not given to summary in breathless CNN/MS NBC nuggets of headline wisdom.
frugal-one
10-5-22, 5:01am
Wi …yesterday the governor had wanted special meeting to get a referendum on abortion in WI. republicans gaveled in and out … 32 seconds. They OBVIOUSLY don’t care what the people want. Another reason NOT to vote republican. Traitor ron johnson in the news again showing how he lied about his involvement in Jan 6th. Unbelievable that people vote for this lowlife.
frugal-one
10-5-22, 5:04am
[QUOTE=frugal-one;415130]
I am curious as to what you’re trying to convey with the two article links you posted. Neither one of them address the issue you claim, that lack of polling places and adequate bus transportation in black Neighborhoods resulted in them not voting. Sounds to me like you’re just parroting some CNN line and then failing to logically defend it.
As for parties drawing voting districts that favor them, I’m shocked, shocked I tell you that the Republican party would draw districts to favor their outcome! Not. Do you think that’s a new thing?
I heard a long explanation on NPR a few years ago About how algorithmic science is increasingly being used to determine fair versus non-fair voting district lines. It is a complex science. I’m glad I’m not on any court whether state or national Supreme Court to have to determine this issue. It is complicated and not given to summary in breathless CNN/MS NBC nuggets of headline wisdom.
Read what you want into it. I have no desire to discuss/debate with you ad naseum.
frugal-one
10-5-22, 9:13am
Actually something positive…. Word is a few state like Michigan and Pennsylvania.. some republicans are starting to vote against election deniers and whacky conspiracy theorists. Hopefully more republicans and states will join suit.
Republican in good standing Marjorie Taylor Greene recently said "I am not going to mince words with you all. Democrats want Republicans dead, and they have already started the killings."
Does anyone have any idea what the hell she's talking about?
Republican in good standing Marjorie Taylor Greene recently said "I am not going to mince words with you all. Democrats want Republicans dead, and they have already started the killings."
Does anyone have any idea what the hell she's talking about?
I think people sometimes betray their inner thoughts by what they seem concerned with...
I also seem to recall MTG calling for the execution of elected officials. I suspect they were democrats, but I admit I haven't really been paying attention to the clown college.
I think people sometimes betray their inner thoughts by what they seem concerned with...
I also seem to recall MTG calling for the execution of elected officials. I suspect they were democrats, but I admit I haven't really been paying attention to the clown college.
Ha! I'm concerned that she seems to be fomenting mass violence, even though my chances of getting caught in the crossfire are slim.
iris lilies
10-5-22, 1:38pm
[QUOTE=iris lilies;415136]
Read what you want into it. I have no desire to discuss/debate with you ad naseum.
hunh, have we actually debated? I guess I missed that. I see you post links, say mean things about all Republicans which does not bother me, berate Alan for having his head in the sand, tell me I am stupid for not thinking for myself/failing to watch CNN/MSNBC/other mainstream teevee (also—does not bother me) and post in a shouty way more links.
I guess I don’t consider those actions “ debate” but ymmv as it obviously does.
Now apparently newt Gingrich believes there should be an exception to abortion restrictions. For people who are deeply committed to Christ.
iris lilies
10-5-22, 6:40pm
Now apparently newt Gingrich believes there should be an exception to abortion restrictions. For people who are deeply committed to Christ.
That is interesting. I’m going to go check that out.
Edit to add: what an odd interpretation you’ve made if you’re talking about Newt defending Senate candidate Walker. There’s nothing in the news report I read that is about a woman who is committed to Christ being allowed an exception abortion in a restricted state.
That is interesting. I’m going to go check that out.
Edit to add: what an odd interpretation you’ve made if you’re talking about Newt defending Senate candidate Walker. There’s nothing in the news report I read that is about a woman who is committed to Christ being allowed an exception abortion in a restricted state.
I suppose you’re right. His exception is only that a man can pay for a woman he impregnated to get an abortion if the man is deeply committed to Christ.
I suppose that difference is significant since we all know that republicans think men should be the ones deciding what women do with their bodies.
iris lilies
10-5-22, 7:49pm
I suppose you’re right. His exception is only that a man can pay for a woman he impregnated to get an abortion if the man is deeply committed to Christ.
I suppose that difference is significant since we all know that republicans think men should be the ones deciding what women do with their bodies.
Hunh? If Walker paid for an abortion, and it looks like he did, it was legal. Of course he “ can oay fir a woman…to get an abortion,” What exception is needed? You may remember that Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision. Walker isnt old enough to have predated that.
Geez JP you really do twist points that seem… Not a point.
I’m simply pointing out that a) it’s wildly hypocritical that republicans are defending he fact that he impregnated someone and then paid for her abortion while simultaneously vowing to outlaw all future abortions, and b) calling that dirtbag ‘deeply committed to Christ’ when the other candidate in his race is a preacher. One who didn’t commit domestic violence, father several children that he pretends don’t exist or pay for an abortion of a fetus that he fathered.
If walker is the kind of person republicans think is ‘deeply committed to Christ’ it’s no wonder so many people think Christianity, at least as practiced by some republicans, is a clown car farce of a religion.
iris lilies
10-5-22, 10:05pm
Oh! Do you think he’s a hypocrite!
Why didn’t you just say so.
:~)
Oh! Do you think he’s a hypocrite!
Why didn’t you just say so.
:~)
You’ve got a point. Anyone who has even sort of been paying attention for the past several years has figured out that hypocrisy is the only Republican value that they actually cherish. Well, that and winning regardless of how many ‘highly cherished’ values they have to toss in the trash can along the way. Being against abortion is just another one of those values that they don’t actually care about.
Lol. Now it turns out that the woman who walker paid for the abortion is also the mother of one of his kids he pretended didn’t exist. I wonder how this new detail fits into Gingrich’s belief that walker has deeply held belief in Christ?
I wonder how this new detail fits into Gingrich’s belief that walker has deeply held belief in Christ?
That we are all sinners trying to be better?
That we are all sinners trying to be better?
There is no redemption of sin with our new Puritans, only cancellation.
There is no redemption of sin with our new Puritans, only cancellation.
There’s no amount of good work to prove that one isn’t being performative either.
That we are all sinners trying to be better?
He lies every time he opens his mouth. Maybe he hasn't read the "false witness" part of the Ten Commandments.
Republicans are scraping the bottom of the barrel for candidates, witness Lauren Boebert.
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