View Full Version : Why NOT to vote Republican
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I see that the day after the President pronounced “There is no there there” (No doubt Gertrude Stein is grimacing in the Great Beyond) the FBI found a fourth batch of mislaid secrets at one of his houses.
I have begun to wonder if it's common for other high level officials to take these sorts of documents home and they could be everywhere. I've not really heard a reasonable explanation why anyone would take them out of a secure area and then just forget about them.
5123
I call it a sign of progress that politicians lie about being Jewish bankers to help their electoral chances. It makes lying about having been a truck driver seem quaintly outdated.
I have begun to wonder if it's common for other high level officials to take these sorts of documents home and they could be everywhere. I've not really heard a reasonable explanation why anyone would take them out of a secure area and then just forget about them.
Back in the day, I would have been shredded and pulped for mishandling classified material. They liked to make the occasional example to drive the point home.
I call it a sign of progress that politicians lie about being Jewish bankers to help their electoral chances. It makes lying about having been a truck driver seem quaintly outdated.
True. Although that is counteracted by the fact that republicans have so normalized lying, as Kevin McCarthy admitted last week, that they no longer think it’s a bad thing.
frugal-one
1-22-23, 5:47pm
Biden REQUESTED his home be searched for any other documents unlike his predecessor. Makes one wonder if some documents were planted? The timing seems too coincidental. If nothing else, it shows Biden wants to be in compliance.
Biden REQUESTED his home be searched for any other documents unlike his predecessor. Makes one wonder if some documents were planted? The timing seems too coincidental. If nothing else, it shows Biden wants to be in compliance.
That's quite a stretch isn't it?
frugal-one
1-22-23, 5:51pm
Hardly. I put nothing past trump.
If someone wanted to plant them, I wonder how they got into the locked garage where he keeps his corvette.
Assuming there is no big conspiracy or clandestine operations, he needs to fess up, say he was wrong, explain why the documents were in his possession, and apologize. That would be the honorable thing to do.
frugal-one
1-22-23, 8:34pm
Time will tell.
Time will tell.
The news reports say that some of the documents were from Biden's senate and VP days, some with hand written notes from the day. So that's pretty much before anything Trump. It did cross my mind that Trump had top secret documents in his residence so he could plant them in the Biden residence. Democrats need a Hanity to propagate conspiracies and raise suspicions. Biden's integrity has been diminished in my eyes from this. I think he is just going to ignore it rather than offer the public some sort of explanation, apology or excuse.
Biden REQUESTED his home be searched for any other documents unlike his predecessor. Makes one wonder if some documents were planted? The timing seems too coincidental. If nothing else, it shows Biden wants to be in compliance.
Sure he did. Once a subpoena was all but inevitable. This is the guy who hired a private legal team to clean out an office. The White House first tried to quietly return some documents to the National Archives, but their inspector general notified DOJ.
But then they started turning up in multiple places and it became less and less the nothingburger than originally claimed. Unless you consider comical incompetence to be nothing.
I don’t think we need a GOP plot to understand this situation. “Never attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity”.
iris lilies
1-23-23, 9:56am
That's quite a stretch isn't it?if anyone is planting documents it is the DNC who wants this old codger out of the running for 2024.
if anyone is planting documents it is the DNC who wants this old codger out of the running for 2024.
It's a shame no one thought of doing that to Reagan, the old fool.
It's a shame no one thought of doing that to Reagan, the old fool.
A hostile questioner at one of the debates raised that issue with him. He replied to the effect that he wouldn’t hold his opponent’s youth and inexperience against him.
It's a shame no one thought of doing that to Reagan, the old fool.
Given that he had probably never seen a classified document before his role as the doddering president that he eventually became it probably wasn't possible. Even though California is the biggest state it's unlikely that our governors have much occasion to see such things much less take them home at the end of their governorships.
Given that he had probably never seen a classified document before his role as the doddering president that he eventually became it probably wasn't possible. Even though California is the biggest state it's unlikely that our governors have much occasion to see such things much less take them home at the end of their governorships.
Well, it’s looking increasingly possible that Mr Reagan’s tenure as President will be twice as long as Mr Biden’s Maybe we should wait until then for a fair comparison.
Although you are making me nostalgic for the Great Satans of yesteryear. I miss the Gipper.
iris lilies
1-24-23, 12:51pm
In honor of these recent posts, today I’m wearing my “Reagan/Bush” t shirt.
Although you are making me nostalgic for the Great Satans of yesteryear. I miss the Gipper.
I know right? He just hated our country and didn't think the government could do anything right instead of actively trying to overthrow it like the current batch of assholes.
Regan would be the poster child for required mental competency testing.
So now classified documents have been found in Pence's house. Geez, wake me up when someone finds a dead body in some politician's closet. Until then, I'm bored already.
So now classified documents have been found in Pence's house. Geez, wake me up when someone finds a dead body in some politician's closet. Until then, I'm bored already.
It would have been funnier if he’d gone on “60 Minutes” the week before to scold someone else’s “irresponsibility.”
He didn’t say that apparently, but still pretty darn funny…
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1617933153376534567?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1617933153376534567%7Ctwgr% 5Ea8d3e160f4a0e847db1f3a549a7bfffb78df6ac2%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstories%2 F2023%2F1%2F24%2F2149018%2F-Classified-documents-found-in-unprotected-area-at-Indiana-home-of-Mike-Pence
It sort of makes one wonder what these guys may have digitized, put on a flash drive, and stashed somewhere. I guess DC hasn't gone paperless or the politicians are Luddites like me. I suppose there are reasons for paper versions, like the Top Secret stamps in red.
It sort of makes one wonder what these guys may have digitized, put on a flash drive, and stashed somewhere. I guess DC hasn't gone paperless or the politicians are Luddites like me. I suppose there are reasons for paper versions, like the Top Secret stamps in red.
When I worked with such things, we were not allowed to have our own electronic devices or cameras present when using the material.
When I worked with such things, we were not allowed to have our own electronic devices or cameras present when using the material.
Point taken. Since they seem to have gotten the documents to their closets from a secure area I can guess opportunities could arise.
frugal-one
1-24-23, 9:56pm
Still seems strange that trump’s “competition/enemies” both talked about not being irresponsible and now gov docs are found in both their possessions. Is it possible to find something similar or as damaging on DeSantis?
Someone I know who has worked for multiple defense contractors and had various levels of security clearance for much of their pre-retirement life commented "apparently elected officials and their staffs don't go through the same training regarding the appropriate handling of confidential documents that I did..." At this point I won't be surprised if over the coming weeks we learn that multiple elected people, both current and past, from both parties are finding documents in their homes.
The thing I find remarkable is that there doesn't seem to be some sort of overarching document control process for the government to keep track of every copy of any given document. I've never dealt with confidential materials but thinking back to the early years of my employment with my former mega-corp insurance company when they still had paper files for everything any time I needed to send a policy file to another office the whole process was tracked. The file had a barcode on it from the moment it was created and there was a master document system that kept track of that document everywhere it went. If I needed to transfer a policy file to the chicago or new york or whatever office I'd ask the file room to do so, they would scan it out as "in shipment" including the fedex tracking number, then when it arrived in the other office it would get scanned in to their file room, and then scanned out again once it was delivered to the specific underwriter in that office. At any time in the process the document management system knew exactly where the file was. I realize that confidential documents add a level of complexity to this, but 1) it seems even more critical that a system like this exist for confidential documents, and 2) it doesn't seem that difficult to make tracking of confidential documents confidential in itself. They just need names that are random as opposed to "XYZ corporation 2010 policy file" which would've been how I could look up a file's location in mega-corp's file tracking system.
Still seems strange that trump’s “competition/enemies” both talked about not being irresponsible and now gov docs are found in both their possessions. Is it possible to find something similar or as damaging on DeSantis?
Probably not. Like Reagan prior to his unfortunate election to the presidency, he's only a governor. He's probably never seen a confidential document unless it was shown to him by either someone who shouldn't have had it or by someone who should have known better than to show it to him. In other words, not completely impossible, but highly unlikely. And even more unlikely that someone with a confidential document would be dumb enough to let him keep a copy of it.
When I worked with such things, we were not allowed to have our own electronic devices or cameras present when using the material.
Back in the eighties, DoD had electronic security standards (TEMPEST) that everyone had to confirm to. Some rooms you worked in had degaussers built into the doorframes. They were constantly doing emanation security checks because early PC keystrokes had unique signals. Old hardware had to be destroyed by specialists.
It was a far cry from Mrs. Clinton’s closet server.
flowerseverywhere
1-26-23, 4:29pm
https://itep.org/fair-tax-plan-would-abolish-irs-shift-federal-taxes-from-wealthy/
meanwhile this national sales tax instead of all federal taxes and IRS would be abolished. I’ve read several articles about it. A big purchase like a car would cost Joe average much more. I don’t see how this would benefit the working middle class at all. If somebody has a different view I’d love to hear an explanation.
https://itep.org/fair-tax-plan-would-abolish-irs-shift-federal-taxes-from-wealthy/
meanwhile this national sales tax instead of all federal taxes and IRS would be abolished. I’ve read several articles about it. A big purchase like a car would cost Joe average much more. I don’t see how this would benefit the working middle class at all. If somebody has a different view I’d love to hear an explanation.
I am completely ignorant of most things that involve mathematics. I'm just trying to think of the things that would be taxable. It seems like a Consumption Tax. So people who buy the most stuff, pay the most tax. In theory, that's appealing to me. So, maybe it does impact the wealthy, but OTOH, how do you justify charging 30% extra for the basic things that the poor and middle class need?
Is this in any way similar to VAT taxes in Europe!
Would there be exceptions to these taxes--like not taxing food, for instance?
I'm interested in hearing other points of view on this. I haven't heard of this proposal. But if it was generated by the Church of Scientology, right away, I have to be skeptical
This idea has been proposed in each Congress for the past 30 years or so, sometimes by Republicans and sometimes by Democrats. It never goes anywhere, although I suppose it could lead to a productive conversation regarding the role of taxation and perhaps better ways to fund a government.
I'm more a fan of a flat tax on income, but it would take some fancy marketing for any major change to the way we're taxed. I remember campaign promises to simplify income tax reporting so it could be done on a postcard. I confess to not knowing much about a national sales tax but I can picture it as discouraging spending to avoid taxes, which is generally not good for a capitalist economy.
flowerseverywhere
1-26-23, 10:03pm
This idea has been proposed in each Congress for the past 30 years or so, sometimes by Republicans and sometimes by Democrats. It never goes anywhere, although I suppose it could lead to a productive conversation regarding the role of taxation and perhaps better ways to fund a government.
Good luck on any kind of productive conversation.
flowerseverywhere
1-26-23, 10:05pm
I'm more a fan of a flat tax on income, but it would take some fancy marketing for any major change to the way we're taxed. I remember campaign promises to simplify income tax reporting so it could be done on a postcard. I confess to not knowing much about a national sales tax but I can picture it as discouraging spending to avoid taxes, which is generally not good for a capitalist economy.
I totally agree about spending. Our economy is about buying lots of stuff we think we need. It would hurt many producers
rosarugosa
1-27-23, 6:55am
I've always heard that sales tax is more regressive than income tax, which sounds totally logical to me. Spending as a % of income or even of total assets is going to be much higher for poorer people.
I am completely ignorant of most things that involve mathematics. I'm just trying to think of the things that would be taxable. It seems like a Consumption Tax. So people who buy the most stuff, pay the most tax. In theory, that's appealing to me. So, maybe it does impact the wealthy, but OTOH, how do you justify charging 30% extra for the basic things that the poor and middle class need?
Is this in any way similar to VAT taxes in Europe!
Would there be exceptions to these taxes--like not taxing food, for instance?
I'm interested in hearing other points of view on this. I haven't heard of this proposal. But if it was generated by the Church of Scientology, right away, I have to be skeptical
In general, a sales tax gets collected once at the retail level, while a VAT gets collected at each stage of the production process. Exempting certain commodities or services is one way to address the regressive concern. It can get complicated when you quibble over, say taxable prepared meals vs groceries. My State’s statues, for instance, devote more space to the definition of a sandwich than to municipal accounting standards. Another method you sometimes see is an annual or quarterly rebate meant to cover basic necessities.
I think a VAT or flat income tax with few exceptions is about as fair and simple as you can get. Income taxes offer the greatest scope for using the tax system to reward friends or punish enemies. I read California is looking at a wealth tax that would employ armies of bureaucrats to determine the value of art, unrealized gains and other items. Elizabeth Warren keeps making noises about a constitutionally questionable federal wealth tax.
Income taxes offer the greatest scope for using the tax system to reward friends or punish enemies.
I suspect there's an army of K street lobbyists who would say "hold my chardonnay, watch this" if they heard this statement.
iris lilies
1-27-23, 1:58pm
In general, a sales tax gets collected once at the retail level, while a VAT gets collected at each stage of the production process. Exempting certain commodities or services is one way to address the regressive concern. It can get complicated when you quibble over, say taxable prepared meals vs groceries. My State’s statues, for instance, devote more space to the definition of a sandwich than to municipal accounting standards. Another method you sometimes see is an annual or quarterly rebate meant to cover basic necessities.
I think a VAT or flat income tax with few exceptions is about as fair and simple as you can get. Income taxes offer the greatest scope for using the tax system to reward friends or punish enemies. I read California is looking at a wealth tax that would employ armies of bureaucrats to determine the value of art, unrealized gains and other items. Elizabeth Warren keeps making noises about a constitutionally questionable federal wealth tax.
I welcome the State of California imposing the weath tax! I would like to see how that works.
There are European countries doing this and everything Euro is good.so yay, bring on the wealth tax—to the state of California. :~)
I welcome the State of California imposing the weath tax! I would like to see how that works.
There are European countries doing this and everything Euro is good.so yay, bring on the wealth tax—to the state of California. :~)
I understand Norway, Switzerland and Spain have recurring (ie not just at death) taxes on net worth. France and Italy have partial wealth taxes, I think on foreign residents or assets held outside the country.
A number of countries have tried and then discontinued it because it’s difficult to administer and incentivizes a certain level of gamesmanship.
My understanding of the California proposal was that it would be a tax on the worldwide assets of current and former residents.
My understanding of the California proposal was that it would be a tax on the worldwide assets of current and former residents.
Molon labe.
Molon labe.
Thermopylae will seem mild compared to the serried ranks of lawyers contesting the value of vineyards, Klimts and Gulfstreams.
Thermopylae will seem mild compared to the serried ranks of lawyers contesting the value of vineyards, Klimts and Gulfstreams.
Hmmm, I have a vineyard. Check. No Klimts but some Rodrigue paintings and some stunning Navajo/Hopi/Coast Salish art. Check. No Gulfstream, but I have a buddy with a De Havilland Beaver which I trade him wine for rides in. Check.
Out of California ~25 years now - check.
Dang. I’m impressed. Just when I thought republicans couldn’t get any creepier Florida’s high school athletics association decided to dial it up to 11. Student athletes will now have to provide their school administration details about their menstrual cycles. Such a weird look for the party that claims to be all about freedom.
To paraphrase dr oz ‘a girl’s sexual health should be between her , her doctor and her school administrator.’
iris lilies
1-30-23, 10:03am
I understand Norway, Switzerland and Spain have recurring (ie not just at death) taxes on net worth. France and Italy have partial wealth taxes, I think on foreign residents or assets held outside the country.
A number of countries have tried and then discontinued it because it’s difficult to administer and incentivizes a certain level of gamesmanship.
My understanding of the California proposal was that it would be a tax on the worldwide assets of current and former residents.
California will solve their homeless problem with all of those new tax dollars.
Dang. I’m impressed. Just when I thought republicans couldn’t get any creepier Florida’s high school athletics association decided to dial it up to 11. Student athletes will now have to provide their school administration details about their menstrual cycles. Such a weird look for the party that claims to be all about freedom.
To paraphrase dr oz ‘a girl’s sexual health should be between her , her doctor and her school administrator.’
Does the GOP run the Florida High School Athletic Association?
Does the GOP run the Florida High School Athletic Association?
No they don't, but dis-information and lack of context does seem to excite people.
Did Florida HS Athletics Association Recommend Requiring Student Athletes To Submit Menstrual Info? (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/did-florida-hs-athletics-association-recommend-requiring-student-athletes-to-submit-menstrual-info/ar-AA16Mnao)
Here are the facts: A (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2023/01/25/fhsaa-panel-backs-requiring-athletes-give-menstrual-history-to-schools/69834000007/) panel (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2023/01/25/fhsaa-panel-backs-requiring-athletes-give-menstrual-history-to-schools/69834000007/) of the FHSAA has submitted this recommendation to the FHSAA Board of Directors, which will meet on Feb 26-27, 2023, in Gainesville, Florida, to render a decision. Until then, submitting menstrual information is not yet a state requirement.
The committee voted to adopt a national registration form that makes answering questions on menstruation mandatory for student athletes, but diverges (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2023/01/20/fhsaa-panel-calls-special-meeting-on-athlete-menstrual-questions/69825933007/) from the guidance of that particular form by requiring all answers (medical and reproductive history) to be submitted to school officials — not just the page with doctors' signature clearance.
The ongoing controversy began in the fall of 2022. Florida student athletes, in general, are required (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2022/10/04/student-athletes-florida-asked-report-periods/10296029002/) to answer dozens of questions on a form before their doctors clear them for practice or play. These questions have to do with physical fitness, and aim to prevent injuries.
For around 20 years, Florida's female student athletes have been asked (https://fhsaa.com/documents/2020/3/26/el02_physical_2.pdf) to answer a number of additional questions that pertain to their menstrual periods. However, this section of the form has been optional, something that may change if, or when, the FHSAA sports medicine panel's recommendation receives full board approval.
The current version (https://fhsaa.com/documents/2020/3/26/el02_physical_2.pdf) of the form states "FEMALES ONLY (optional)" and asks the following:
When was your first menstrual period?
When was your most recent menstrual period?
How much time do you usually have from the start of one period to the start of another?
How many periods have you had in the last year?
What was the longest time between periods in the last year?
In Florida, these written forms with students' medical information are submitted (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2022/10/04/why-florida-student-athletes-asked-their-periods-play/8084649001/) to school officials, contrary to a number of other states where only a doctor's signature is required to clear an athlete for play. While period information is important for doctors to know as it affects an athlete's physical health, some parents and medical professionals raised red flags with the questioning, when, according to an October 2022 Palm Beach Post (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2022/10/04/student-athletes-florida-asked-report-periods/10296029002/) investigation, a number of school districts shifted the forms to a digital platform.
Hmmm, I have a vineyard. Check. No Klimts but some Rodrigue paintings and some stunning Navajo/Hopi/Coast Salish art. Check. No Gulfstream, but I have a buddy with a De Havilland Beaver which I trade him wine for rides in. Check.
Out of California ~25 years now - check.
I think you’re safe unless the rest of the PNW get ideas. They can get pretty creative with other people’s money too.
Rumors are that Nikki Haley is gearing up to announce a run for president. I'd have to learn more, but if it were Biden vs Haley it would be an interesting contest. I've always thought she is a sharp woman and a refreshing change from the old schools. Th little bit I get is that she may be promoting a new version of Republican, but that's probably too much to wish for.
Looks like Tim Scott is teasing a run now.
iris lilies
2-2-23, 10:17am
No they don't, but dis-information and lack of context does seem to excite people.
Did Florida HS Athletics Association Recommend Requiring Student Athletes To Submit Menstrual Info? (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/did-florida-hs-athletics-association-recommend-requiring-student-athletes-to-submit-menstrual-info/ar-AA16Mnao)
Here are the facts: A (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2023/01/25/fhsaa-panel-backs-requiring-athletes-give-menstrual-history-to-schools/69834000007/) panel (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2023/01/25/fhsaa-panel-backs-requiring-athletes-give-menstrual-history-to-schools/69834000007/) of the FHSAA has submitted this recommendation to the FHSAA Board of Directors, which will meet on Feb 26-27, 2023, in Gainesville, Florida, to render a decision. Until then, submitting menstrual information is not yet a state requirement.
The committee voted to adopt a national registration form that makes answering questions on menstruation mandatory for student athletes, but diverges (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2023/01/20/fhsaa-panel-calls-special-meeting-on-athlete-menstrual-questions/69825933007/) from the guidance of that particular form by requiring all answers (medical and reproductive history) to be submitted to school officials — not just the page with doctors' signature clearance.
The ongoing controversy began in the fall of 2022. Florida student athletes, in general, are required (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2022/10/04/student-athletes-florida-asked-report-periods/10296029002/) to answer dozens of questions on a form before their doctors clear them for practice or play. These questions have to do with physical fitness, and aim to prevent injuries.
For around 20 years, Florida's female student athletes have been asked (https://fhsaa.com/documents/2020/3/26/el02_physical_2.pdf) to answer a number of additional questions that pertain to their menstrual periods. However, this section of the form has been optional, something that may change if, or when, the FHSAA sports medicine panel's recommendation receives full board approval.
The current version (https://fhsaa.com/documents/2020/3/26/el02_physical_2.pdf) of the form states "FEMALES ONLY (optional)" and asks the following:
When was your first menstrual period?
When was your most recent menstrual period?
How much time do you usually have from the start of one period to the start of another?
How many periods have you had in the last year?
What was the longest time between periods in the last year?
In Florida, these written forms with students' medical information are submitted (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2022/10/04/why-florida-student-athletes-asked-their-periods-play/8084649001/) to school officials, contrary to a number of other states where only a doctor's signature is required to clear an athlete for play. While period information is important for doctors to know as it affects an athlete's physical health, some parents and medical professionals raised red flags with the questioning, when, according to an October 2022 Palm Beach Post (https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2022/10/04/student-athletes-florida-asked-report-periods/10296029002/) investigation, a number of school districts shifted the forms to a digital platform.
Havent we talked about this issue before? It seems familiar, but it’s fine if JP cycles it through “the GOP‘s greatest hits” even though it’s not a GOP lead issue.
iris lilies
2-2-23, 10:19am
Have we learned that taking home classified documents, and, well, taking them to all of your homes, it’s really not that big of a deal after all? Have we learned that lesson and can we move on now? It’s great when we can get educated and change our minds due to that education. Why just last fall, prior to the November elections, we thought it was a very big deal.
Have we learned that taking home classified documents, and, well, taking them to all of your homes, it’s really not that big of a deal after all? Have we learned that lesson and can we move on now? It’s great when we can get educated and change our minds due to that education. Why just last fall, prior to the November elections, we thought it was a very big deal.
I think what we've learned is that taking these documents home is situationally bad, depending upon who does it. Now, we get to enjoy watching folks attempt to explain the difference at every interaction in which they can't simply ignore it.
Teacher Terry
2-2-23, 2:29pm
Obviously it’s bad news for anyone to take home classified documents and staff needs to be trained better. The difference between Biden and trump is that Biden disclosed himself and allowed his homes to be searched. That’s the opposite of what trump did.
Obviously it’s bad news for anyone to take home classified documents and staff needs to be trained better. The difference between Biden and trump is that Biden disclosed himself and allowed his homes to be searched. That’s the opposite of what trump did.
He tried to quietly return documents found by the lawyers he hired to “clean out his office” to the National Archive. Only when their IG began looking into the matter did he decide to impress us with his “transparency”.
He tried to quietly return documents found by the lawyers he hired to “clean out his office” to the National Archive. Only when their IG began looking into the matter did he decide to impress us with his “transparency”.
Not like trump who refused to return documents and said some of them were his to keep (or sell.).
Not like trump who refused to return documents and said some of them were his to keep (or sell.).
So it really comes down to whether you consider arrogance and intransigence to be worse than incompetence and hypocrisy. Personally, I wouldn’t trust either of those gentlemen with my PIN.
Not like trump who refused to return documents and said some of them were his to keep (or sell.).
So, in your mind the difference is that Trump felt he was entitled to keep the documents and Biden couldn't say that after making such a big deal about Trump, yet probably felt the same since he distributed them to every location he may be at any given time, which would lead a reasonable person to believe he thought of them as his to keep (or allow his son to use the info for family profit). Is that about right?
In the world of us plebes I could see the judicial system making an example of someone to discourage more of the same, and to make a lasting impression on would-be-ers. I am correctly assuming that a law was broken?
iris lilies
2-2-23, 8:04pm
In the world of us plebes I could see the judicial system making an example of someone to discourage more of the same, and to make a lasting impression on would-be-ers. I am correctly assuming that a law was broken?
I don’t think it’s been established that a law is broken.
But yes, it would seem that somebody needs to be made an example of to curb this. The problem is it’s not gonna be either one of the presidents current or ex, it will be someone down the chain of responsibility to serve as the example.
and of course, now I wonder what documents the Obamas have.
I'm wondering what kind of documents Putin has. :devil:
Have we learned that taking home classified documents, and, well, taking them to all of your homes, it’s really not that big of a deal after all? Have we learned that lesson and can we move on now? It’s great when we can get educated and change our minds due to that education. Why just last fall, prior to the November elections, we thought it was a very big deal.
Apparently we have. The lesson seems to be that there's a big difference between accidentally taking them home versus intentionally taking them home and then denying it, obfuscating about it, and ultimately refusing to give them back until the FBI comes to your beach house and take them away after finding them in a scattered sloppy mess of storage that was likely accessed by multiple people without the security clearance to see them.
In the world of us plebes I could see the judicial system making an example of someone to discourage more of the same, and to make a lasting impression on would-be-ers. I am correctly assuming that a law was broken?
The laws regarding classified documents are fairly detailed on the subject and one of the key things in them is that presidents and VPs are treated differently from almost anyone else due to their ability to classify and declassify things. The laws that trump appears to have violated don't have to do with his taking the documents with him when he left the white house, they have to do with how he dealt with the situation when he was advised that he needed to give them back. Biden and Pence did not do anything (that we know of) to try and keep the documents once they were aware of the documents' existence in their homes and have both cooperated fully with the government in the government's efforts to retrieve them.
So, in your mind the difference is that Trump felt he was entitled to keep the documents and Biden couldn't say that after making such a big deal about Trump, yet probably felt the same since he distributed them to every location he may be at any given time, which would lead a reasonable person to believe he thought of them as his to keep (or allow his son to use the info for family profit). Is that about right?
No.
JP summed it up …
The lesson seems to be that there's a big difference between accidentally taking them home versus intentionally taking them home and then denying it, obfuscating about it, and ultimately refusing to give them back until the FBI comes to your beach house and take them away after finding them in a scattered sloppy mess of storage that was likely accessed by multiple people without the security clearance to see them.
The laws that trump appears to have violated don't have to do with his taking the documents with him when he left the white house, they have to do with how he dealt with the situation when he was advised that he needed to give them back. Biden and Pence did not do anything (that we know of) to try and keep the documents once they were aware of the documents' existence in their homes and have both cooperated fully with the government in the government's efforts to retrieve them.
The laws regarding classified documents are fairly detailed on the subject and one of the key things in them is that presidents and VPs are treated differently from almost anyone else due to their ability to classify and declassify things. The laws that trump appears to have violated don't have to do with his taking the documents with him when he left the white house, they have to do with how he dealt with the situation when he was advised that he needed to give them back. Biden and Pence did not do anything (that we know of) to try and keep the documents once they were aware of the documents' existence in their homes and have both cooperated fully with the government in the government's efforts to retrieve them.
So, if I'm getting this correctly, there is not a law prohibiting a president or VP from taking home top secret documents and then keeping them for some unknown time, even after they no longer hold office? I understand the difference between accidentally ending up with things vs. knowingly keeping them, which would be up to a court to decide if such a law exists. And that as you say, the law is fairly explicit about this?
I get the difference with Trump, which seems to fall into obstruction of justice realm from my basic understanding. And that the shear volume might indicate ill intent.
Dang. I’m impressed. Just when I thought republicans couldn’t get any creepier Florida’s high school athletics association decided to dial it up to 11. Student athletes will now have to provide their school administration details about their menstrual cycles. Such a weird look for the party that claims to be all about freedom.
To paraphrase dr oz ‘a girl’s sexual health should be between her , her doctor and her school administrator.’
It turns out that female athletes in San Francisco schools have been required to answer those questions for the past 20 years or so as well. Damn Republicans!
iris lilies
2-4-23, 11:40pm
It turns out that female athletes in San Francisco schools have been required to answer those questions for the past 20 years or so as well. Damn Republicans!
I’m actually relieved to hear there is a secret strong hold of Republicans in San Francisco. It’s a great and wonderful city, a jewel of our United States, so maybe it won’t go into the crapper completely after all.
It turns out that female athletes in San Francisco schools have been required to answer those questions for the past 20 years or so as well. Damn Republicans!
I’m actually relieved to hear there is a secret strong hold of Republicans in San Francisco. It’s a great and wonderful city, a jewel of our United States, so maybe it won’t go into the crapper completely after all.
So you're both into super creepy stuff regarding high school athletes having to divurge incredibly personal info about their sexual organ functioning.? Hmmmm. I'd ask you to tell me more but frankly in this case I'll just say " PLEASE STOP TALKING. YOU ARE BOTH CREEPY AS ****."
I guess if these folks were really concerned about the safety of women's sports, they'd do something about the coaches and team doctors that sexually abuse the young athletes.
iris lilies
2-5-23, 3:43am
So you're both into super creepy stuff regarding high school athletes having to divurge incredibly personal info about their sexual organ functioning.? Hmmmm. I'd ask you to tell me more but frankly in this case I'll just say " PLEASE STOP TALKING. YOU ARE BOTH CREEPY AS ****."
Not at all. If my daughter was into sports, which would be highly unlikely, and if she brought home that form, I’d say you don’t need to tell them that stuff. End of story.
So you're both into super creepy stuff regarding high school athletes having to divurge incredibly personal info about their sexual organ functioning.? Hmmmm. I'd ask you to tell me more but frankly in this case I'll just say " PLEASE STOP TALKING. YOU ARE BOTH CREEPY AS ****."
Who brought up this “super creepy stuff” in the first place?
Who brought up this “super creepy stuff” in the first place?
Lol. You’re probably right. I should’ve taken the Republican style for dealing with awkward topics like racism. Pretend the subject doesn’t exist and let the unfortunate girls suffer the embarrassment and indignity by themselves.
gimmethesimplelife
2-6-23, 12:22am
I'd have to live with myself if I voted Republican. It would also be a direct insult to my Grandfather on my mother's side - her father. When Mom was 18 and about to vote for the first time in Austria, her father took her aside and said words than resonate today. Namely, let us not forget why we have national health care and six paid weeks off a year plus one month's salary bonus at Christmas - the Social Democrats. Wise words to heed. Rob
Lol. You’re probably right. I should’ve taken the Republican style for dealing with awkward topics like racism. Pretend the subject doesn’t exist and let the unfortunate girls suffer the embarrassment and indignity by themselves.
So you raise a topic, making the reductive assumption that any “super creepy” practice in Florida must be the doing of dastardly Republicans. When others point out this has been the practice for decades in places like California and New York, you dissolve into splenetic name-calling because they mention the topic you introduced. And then the boilerplate accusations of racism and insensitivity.
But you’re not alone. There’s a great piece in the Washington Examiner about “The Media Menstruation Meltdown” that walks through the process.
iris lilies
2-6-23, 11:03am
So you raise a topic, making the reductive assumption that any “super creepy” practice in Florida must be the doing of dastardly Republicans. When others point out this has been the practice for decades in places like California and New York, you dissolve into splenetic name-calling because they mention the topic you introduced. And then the boilerplate accusations of racism and insensitivity.
But you’re not alone. There’s a great piece in the Washington Examiner about “The Media Menstruation Meltdown” that walks through the process.
If you are implying jp needs some new material…Agreed.
It’s depressing that this female sports medical questioning issue seems to be something that both republicans and democrats have participated in. The idea that anyone would think it’s ok to ask student athletes such intimately personal questions is awful. Not every kid has a theoretical (or real) parent like iris (or me) who would push back against sharing such info with school officials.
But either way I’ll let this ugly issue go. I’m sure the republicans won’t disappoint me by failing to come up with new absurd things to discuss.
It’s depressing that this female sports medical questioning issue seems to be something that both republicans and democrats have participated in. The idea that anyone would think it’s ok to ask student athletes such intimately personal questions is awful.
I could imagine there are legitimate health reasons for female athletes to be concerned about those sorts of questions, to avoid athletes causing themselves harm by overdoing training and/or eating in an unhealthy fashion. And I wonder if schools have been held responsible for those issues in the past when female athletes overtrained.
However, I'm not convinced the school or the coaches or the medical supervisor for the team should be the one asking the questions, perhaps an educational campaign directed at the athletes would be more appropriate.
I get subjected to all sorts of very intrusive ongoing personal health monitoring to be a firefighter, or even a mere EMT. If I wish to do the job, I cannot escape them. Then again, I'm not a minor.
My own daughter chose not to participate in the organized sports in her high school here, because they wanted the kids to sign some sort of demented "student athlete" contract controlling their behaviour outside school hours, and she found that alone repulsive enough, so she spent the time becoming a swordswoman with private instruction.
But either way I’ll let this ugly issue go. I’m sure the republicans won’t disappoint me by failing to come up with new absurd things to discuss.
They didn’t. You did. Just read the thread.
They didn’t. You did. Just read the thread.
Actually the republicans did. Because of course they did. In Missouri they looked at DeHateis from Florida and their don't say gay bill and said "hold my beer, watch this." And in Iowa they went with "lets make Dickens novels and Upton Sinclair's The Jungle look like sweet fairy tales." But whatever. Keep defending the gross idea that school officials, regardless of political affiliation, should be asking high school students for intimate details about the functioning of their sexual organs.
https://images.wsj.net/im-719839?width=599&height=399
https://images.wsj.net/im-719768?width=599&height=399
And then what about Huckabee's "normal vs crazy" speech. Based on bae's photos, I wonder what side of the aisle "crazy" is on?
Personally I loved the Jerry Springer vibe that republicans brought to the SOTU. It seemed very on brand for them.
Personally I loved the Jerry Springer vibe that republicans brought to the SOTU. It seemed very on brand for them.
I thought it was more of a pale imitation of Britain's Parliament in the midst of a campaign rally disguised as a SOTU address.
iris lilies
2-9-23, 10:30pm
I thought it was more of a pale imitation of Britain's Parliment in the midst of a campaign rally disguised as a SOTU address.
That’s what I thought of too, the jeering and yelling in Parliament. The first time I heard that it in the staid House of Commons I was shocked, but then later learned that not unusual.
I thought it was more of a pale imitation of Britain's Parliament in the midst of a campaign rally disguised as a SOTU address.
So you thought the republicans did a sad sack half assed attempt to look like British people? They worked really hard at their clown show. I’m sorry you weren’t impressed. Although I suppose you’ll keep voting for those clowns either way so you probably weren’t their target audience.
So you thought the republicans did a sad sack half assed attempt to look like British people? They worked really hard at their clown show. I’m sorry you weren’t impressed. Although I suppose you’ll keep voting for those clowns either way so you probably weren’t their target audience.
I thought the reaction to the President's attempt to slander them all by mis-representing their goals was reminiscent of most every meeting of Parliament I've ever seen. Nothing more, nothing less. Spin it as you wish.
I think the speech revealed the broad outlines of what a Biden presidential campaign will look like. Alternate calls for unity with partisan attacks. Portray climbing out of an economic hole as soaring. The early polls show it seemed to work with Democrats, with the percentage wanting him to run again increasing from 38% to 54%.
I thought the reaction to the President's attempt to slander them all by mis-representing their goals was reminiscent of most every meeting of Parliament I've ever seen. Nothing more, nothing less. Spin it as you wish.
My take was this was pre-planned to demonstrate that Biden is still sharp and in charge of his mental facilities. He laid a trap which the GOP fell for. I can guess it was something the speech writers came up with rather than Biden himself.
But yes, there was a reminisce of Parliament.
My take was this was pre-planned to demonstrate that Biden is still sharp and in charge of his mental facilities.
I was especially impressed with how he demoted Chuck Schumer to minority leader.
I think the speech revealed the broad outlines of what a Biden presidential campaign will look like. Alternate calls for unity with partisan attacks. Portray climbing out of an economic hole as soaring. The early polls show it seemed to work with Democrats, with the percentage wanting him to run again increasing from 38% to 54%.
If only there was an alternative party that actually was concerned about deficits.
If only there was an alternative party that actually was concerned about deficits.
I think both parties are concerned about deficits, the problem is there's only two obvious ways to deal with them, cut the rate of government spending or take more money from citizens tomorrow to pay for what you're spending today. There seems to be differing opinions on which one is better.
Yes. Republicans are so concerned about the deficit that the last time they controlled the White House and both branches of congress they implemented laws that both cut taxes (for rich people at least) and increased spending.
Both side want to spend your money like sailors in port for a weekend.
https://www.thebalancemoney.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296
iris lilies
2-10-23, 3:44pm
Entitlements take up so much of the US budget that there’s not much to play around with, it’s military, and the departments that are discretionary.
Entitlements take up so much of the US budget that there’s not much to play around with, it’s military, and the departments that are discretionary.
Well, we could start by cutting the military budget in half.
iris lilies
2-10-23, 5:16pm
Well, we could start by cutting the military budget in half.
Yes some could be cut, true. As could everything.
Food stamps are being reduced as we speak. Those wascally republicans! Or…maybe it has nothing to do with the current Congress.
frugal-one
2-10-23, 5:59pm
Yes. Republicans are so concerned about the deficit that the last time they controlled the White House and both branches of congress they implemented laws that both cut taxes (for rich people at least) and increased spending.
It was stated trump/republicans increased the deficit by 25% in just 4 years.
iris lilies
2-10-23, 6:13pm
It was stated trump/republicans increased the deficit by 25% in just 4 years.
I wish COVID emergency spending was more carefully done.Flinging thousands of dollars at me, for instance—dumb.
But already the hue and cry is happening all over about the perfectly reasonable cutback of “emergency” food stamp money.
perhaps you would rather the excessive spending continue? Also to remind you it is 2023 and Donald J. Trump is not President now, although I am not sure one could know that from dipping into places like MSNBC.
While it's true that trump is not the president currently, it's also true that he is currently the only republican who has announced a candidacy for 2024. But we could just as well be discussing the previous 3 republican administrations. The only one that actually attempted to be fiscally responsible only lasted one term because of that. If any voter is actually looking for fiscal responsibility they will have to look outside of our two main political parties because there's absolutely zero chance that we will ever see a candidate from either of them that actually delivers on that. They all realize that doing that will insure that they have as much success as Bush the elder did in his reelection effort. Voters only want cuts to programs that they don't benefit from and there are enough federal spending programs out there benefiting enough people that that makes pretty much all of them untouchable beyond a performative but meaningless level.
The current federal deficit reflects an approximately $250,000 debt for each US taxpayer. Should we take a greater interest in what the government asks us to pay for?
The current federal deficit reflects an approximately $250,000 debt for each US taxpayer. Should we take a greater interest in what the government asks us to pay for?
Ayup.
While it's true that trump is not the president currently, it's also true that he is currently the only republican who has announced a candidacy for 2024. But we could just as well be discussing the previous 3 republican administrations. The only one that actually attempted to be fiscally responsible only lasted one term because of that. If any voter is actually looking for fiscal responsibility they will have to look outside of our two main political parties because there's absolutely zero chance that we will ever see a candidate from either of them that actually delivers on that. They all realize that doing that will insure that they have as much success as Bush the elder did in his reelection effort. Voters only want cuts to programs that they don't benefit from and there are enough federal spending programs out there benefiting enough people that that makes pretty much all of them untouchable beyond a performative but meaningless level.
We can blame the political parties, corporate cabals, the deep state or CCP conspirators, but I think the fault for fiscal irresponsibility ultimately lies with us. We refuse to be spoken to like adults, and will savagely punish anyone in authority who tries to.
We much prefer pleasant myths. Our main entitlement programs are 10-12 years away from insolvency but we attack anyone talking about reform as heartless monsters bent on destroying them. Look at the moronic chanting at the SOTU.
Deficits don’t matter. We can have a Euro style welfare state without a Euro style tax regime if only we squeeze the rich for their “fair share”. There is a massive reserve of fraud, waste and abuse we can eliminate to fix everything. We can mint a miraculous platinum coin. Let’s give industrial policy another try. It’s all pretty much nonsense, but it’s preferable to making adult decisions.
littlebittybobby
2-12-23, 12:28pm
Okay---Here's ONE reason NOT to vote Rerpubbliccan: They are Not-seez! They owe their allegiance to Der Fuehrwer! Here's the proof, and the voices in my head tell me she's just the tip of the iceburg! Yup. Congerss, is fulla Not-sees! See photo below. Hope that helpsa you somer. Thankk Mee.5185
flowerseverywhere
2-12-23, 1:01pm
The problem is no one has the guts to stop worthless federal spending. Remembering the $28 million “bridge to nowhere” in Ketchikan that cost $28 million? Or the Abrams tanks the military said were unnecessary but were funded for millions anyway? We never learn from those past mistakes.
then of course we have the massive fraud in PPP loans to people who were not eligible. Medicare fraud. We get flyers about walk in tubs, scooters etc that they can provide for us and Medicare (aka taxpayers) will provide even though we have no disability.
No end to the crooks, liars and con men in and out of the government.
iris lilies
2-12-23, 1:17pm
The problem is no one has the guts to stop worthless federal spending. Remembering the $28 million “bridge to nowhere” in Ketchikan that cost $28 million? Or the Abrams tanks the military said were unnecessary but were funded for millions anyway? We never learn from those past mistakes.
then of course we have the massive fraud in PPP loans to people who were not eligible. Medicare fraud. We get flyers about walk in tubs, scooters etc that they can provide for us and Medicare (aka taxpayers) will provide even though we have no disability.
No end to the crooks, liars and con men in and out of the government.
To be fair, if you really go into the program to get funding for walkin tubs, would you actually get one? I doubt Medicare pays for that.
But no matter, I have been told here on this forum that some would rather tolerate a ‘lil bit of fraud in Medicare than deny the program benefits to those in need. As though challenging one negates the other.
Teacher Terry
2-13-23, 2:40pm
Flowers, I totally agree that we need to look at the fraud and corruption in all areas of government. We certainly would find plenty of money. We should also not limit the taxes that are paid towards SS at higher income levels. The last thing we should do is cut Medicare or SS checks. There’s money to be found in other places. Unfortunately the politicians are too corrupt from both parties.
From my humble sample size of work experience, once you get involved with big bureaucracy there is there is going to be waste and abuse. That said, I've found that private enterprise with competition operates far more efficiently than government monopoly, and privatizing Medicare would be a positive step. Of curse, then people would scream that greedy big pharma was raping them. Then there's the $400,000 sidewinder missiles used to shoot down balloons when a few bullets would probably work.
Then there's the $400,000 sidewinder missiles used to shoot down balloons when a few bullets would probably work.
The large balloon shot down of South Carolina was at 58,000 feet when they engaged. The operational ceiling of the F22 is ~50,000 feet, the effective range of the F22's cannon is ~2000 feet.
(And, wow, don't look up how much it costs to fly an F22 per hour! A single missile is in the noise, costwise, compared to flying these puppies around all the time. I am thinking a Piper Cub is more my speed, budget-wise)
The large balloon shot down of South Carolina was at 58,000 feet when they engaged. The operational ceiling of the F22 is ~50,000 feet, the effective range of the F22's cannon is ~2000 feet.
Maybe that set precedence for the other three. Actually using sidewinder was the most efficient and practical show of might against simple balloon technology, but I can only start to imagine the cost to build and operate an F22. It probably makes that 28 million dollar bridge to nowhere seem minor.
It costs almost as much to keep a decent Air Force trained and in a state of readiness as it does to conduct combat operations.
But it’s worth it. Look at how the Russians are suffering, with hordes of barely trained mobniks operating unfamiliar and poorly maintained equipment. CNN posted some drone video yesterday. Even the most committed pacifist would be able to see how they were blundering into kill zones without even the slightest attempt at mutual support.
The large balloon shot down of South Carolina was at 58,000 feet when they engaged. The operational ceiling of the F22 is ~50,000 feet, the effective range of the F22's cannon is ~2000 feet.
(And, wow, don't look up how much it costs to fly an F22 per hour! A single missile is in the noise, costwise, compared to flying these puppies around all the time. I am thinking a Piper Cub is more my speed, budget-wise)
From time to time over the past fifty years or so, they debate whether guns are worth the weight penalty on fighter aircraft. Modern air engagements are generally concluded before the combatants are within sight of each other. Pilots seem unwilling to give them up. Maybe for the same reason they used fly out to fight wearing jodhpurs, riding boots and spurs.
Of course, we are starting to see debates over whether pilots are worth the weight penalty. The day may be coming where fighter pilots go the way of the hoplite, hussar or halberdier.
frugal-one
2-14-23, 4:48pm
Way off topic
I listened to a few quips from Nikki Haley today. She proposed competency testing for all politicians over 75 (Trump is how old?) and a fresh approach outside of old school politics. I imagine that could be part of a successful platform to start out with. As little as I can tell she seems less offensive that some of her whining cohorts.
Ron DeSantis' ongoing kulturkampf in Florida doesn't predispose me to vote GOP anytime soon.
And the GOP's continuing toleration of George Santos in their ranks makes things pretty clear.
frugal-one
2-16-23, 12:29am
Ron DeSantis' ongoing kulturkampf in Florida doesn't predispose me to vote GOP anytime soon.
And the GOP's continuing toleration of George Santos in their ranks makes things pretty clear.
Add Marjorie Taylor Greene to the list of republicans whackos, as well as, a few others.
iris lilies
2-16-23, 1:27pm
Ron DeSantis' ongoing kulturkampf in Florida doesn't predispose me to vote GOP anytime soon.
And the GOP's continuing toleration of George Santos in their ranks makes things pretty clear.
so far, I like a lot of what I hear from Ron DeSantis. HOWEVER that doesn’t mean he’ll be a good campaigner in the national arena. It doesn’t mean that he’s ready to run the national arena.
iris lilies
2-16-23, 1:28pm
Way off topic
Thank you, thread police.
I’m impressed by Desantis consistency in using his power to bully and threaten any person or corporation that he doesn’t like. I doubt he’ll succeed in cancelling AP classes in Florida but I applaud his efforts to **** over education as much as possible since that seems to be a core part of the Republican brand currently.
I doubt he’ll succeed in cancelling AP classes in Florida but I applaud his efforts to **** over education as much as possible since that seems to be a core part of the Republican brand currently.
I'm impressed with the medias efforts to mischaracterize Floridas stance on this and saddened that so many otherwise knowledgeable people believe it. We no longer live in the Information Age, it's become the misinformation age.
I'm impressed with the medias efforts to mischaracterize Floridas stance on this and saddened that so many otherwise knowledgeable people believe it. We no longer live in the Information Age, it's become the misinformation age.
DeSantis: "Nobody elected [College Board], we can utilize their services or not. There are probably some other vendors who could do better."*
That sure sounds like he's considering trying to get rid of AP classes to me. I realize that republicans have different definitions for all sorts of words than the rest of us do so I can understand your confusion.
*https://twitter.com/DeSantisWarRoom/status/1625195210820186112?s=20&t=Y7Tuom9bhmcsfysvWc47gg
frugal-one
2-17-23, 9:17am
Thank you, thread police.
There are times when a new thread on a subject should be started…. just saying’.
That sure sounds like he's considering trying to get rid of AP classes to me. I realize that republicans have different definitions for all sorts of words than the rest of us do so I can understand your confusion.
*https://twitter.com/DeSantisWarRoom/status/1625195210820186112?s=20&t=Y7Tuom9bhmcsfysvWc47gg
That’s true. Republicans cling to outmoded traditional meanings of words like “woman” or “mother” while the lexicological pioneers of the left have opened up vast new vistas for us. Thinly disguised polemic becomes “history”. Corpses and smoking ruins result from “mostly peaceful protests”. It’s a brave new world of meaning the bitter clingers seem incapable of grasping.
iris lilies
2-17-23, 12:22pm
That’s true. Republicans cling to outmoded traditional meanings of words like “woman” or “mother” while the lexicological pioneers of the left have opened up vast new vistas for us. Thinly disguised polemic becomes “history”. Corpses and smoking ruins result from “mostly peaceful protests”. It’s a brave new world of meaning the bitter clingers seem incapable of grasping.
oh buddy, you had to go there with the “ woman” thing.
That’s true. Republicans cling to outmoded traditional meanings of words like “woman” or “mother” while the lexicological pioneers of the left have opened up vast new vistas for us. Thinly disguised polemic becomes “history”. Corpses and smoking ruins result from “mostly peaceful protests”. It’s a brave new world of meaning the bitter clingers seem incapable of grasping.
And an attempted coup is just "a bunch of tourists". And socialist and communist are simply words to describe anything democrats do. And guns being the leading cause of death for American kids is freedom.
oh buddy, you had to go there with the “ woman” thing.
If a Supreme Court Justice felt unqualified to offer a definition, how are the rest of us to proceed?
littlebittybobby
2-20-23, 9:21pm
Okay---My leftist ideologue test subjects are in mourning already over Jimmah Cahtah, one-term president who is reported to be near the end of his days. But yeah---he's 98 y.o., and has collected a pension & benefits galore, for the last 40 Years! All for 4 years of wqrk, if you can call it that. So anyway----the Dembs think he's soooo iconic, that he ought to be called Saint Jimmah. Yup. I have nothing against Jimmah & envy him. But, as a great President---he's right up there with Millard Fillmore or maybe Chester A. Arthur. Ha. Hope that helps you kids some. Thank mee.
frugal-one
2-20-23, 9:48pm
You can be assured lbb that there will be no loss when trump dies… at least Jimmy Carter was a decent human being…. trump not so much.
The similarity to China making it a crime to hold up a blank sheet of paper is uncanny.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/02/18/florida-teacher-empty-school-bookshelves-video-desantis/
littlebittybobby
2-21-23, 12:48pm
You can be assured lbb that there will be no loss when trump dies… at least Jimmy Carter was a decent human being…. trump not so much. As time passes, these pols seem to be even more beloved. No doubt Trump will be revered as one of the great Presidents, by his fans. Even Shrub 1 cultivated an image of a kindly old statesman. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.
frugal-one
2-21-23, 2:08pm
As time passes, these pols seem to be even more beloved. No doubt Trump will be revered as one of the great Presidents, by his fans. Even Shrub 1 cultivated an image of a kindly old statesman. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.
la la land
littlebittybobby
2-21-23, 4:29pm
la la landSo, what about Yobama? Where does he fit, on your measure of decency? Compared to ol' Bill Clintton? Like HST(Demmmacrat) is supposed to have said: You don't get rich in polliticks, unless your a crook." But they're both pretty well off, right? Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.
iris lilies
2-21-23, 4:34pm
So, what about Yobama? Where does he fit, on your measure of decency? Compared to ol' Bill Clintton? Like HST(Demmmacrat) is supposed to have said: You don't get rich in polliticks, unless you’re a crook." But they're both pretty well off, right? Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.you mean, rapist Bill?
He was pretty much a womanizer and I do not care what he did with Monica Lewinsky and any number of girlfriends, but he raped Juanita Broddick. I am certain of that.
frugal-one
2-21-23, 4:55pm
Compare the number of woman who are suing (much less complained) about the biggest rapist of women and young girls. The big buddy of Epstein….trump. There is no comparison.
What about... what about...
How about we just rid ourselves of *all* these sexual predators, no matter which Party they belong to?
frugal-one
2-21-23, 5:38pm
you mean, rapist Bill?
He was pretty much a womanizer and I do not care what he did with Monica Lewinsky and any number of girlfriends, but he raped Juanita Broddick. I am certain of that.
wrong….
Broaddrick filed an affidavit with Paula Jones's lawyers stating there were unfounded rumors and stories circulating "that Mr. Clinton had made unwelcome sexual advances toward me in the late seventies.... These allegations are untrue".Wikipedia
iris lilies
2-21-23, 8:12pm
wrong….
Broaddrick filed an affidavit with Paula Jones's lawyers stating there were unfounded rumors and stories circulating "that Mr. Clinton had made unwelcome sexual advances toward me in the late seventies.... These allegations are untrue".Wikipedia
If you read the entire Wikipedia article, you will see that Juanita Broddick said he raped her. She kept quiet for years, deflecting, deflecting, protecting him. Then, she spilled it.
I believe her.
I believe her.
Do you also believe that justice rapey mcbeer did what he was accused of in public testimony or is it only democrats whose rapiness you are certain of?
frugal-one
2-22-23, 6:20am
If you read the entire Wikipedia article, you will see that Juanita Broddick said he raped her. She kept quiet for years, deflecting, deflecting, protecting him. Then, she spilled it.
I believe her.
She filed an affidavit contrary to what you are saying.
iris lilies
2-22-23, 10:50am
Do you also believe that justice rapey mcbeer did what he was accused of in public testimony or is it only democrats whose rapiness you are certain of?
I think it is possible that liquored up 15 year old Brett participated in a pile on of a girl ( who cannot remember exact time or place). It was unacceptable if it happened.
iris lilies
2-22-23, 1:01pm
She filed an affidavit contrary to what you are saying.
And later recanted.
The reason why Broddick’s story didn't make bigger impact is because she was at the tail end of many of Bill’s highly publicized girl problems. Some of his were bullying efforts, some were with eager participants. By the time Broddick spilled the beans, America was sick and tired of it all. Next!
littlebittybobby
2-22-23, 2:14pm
Okay---it is generally agreed that Ol' Bill is a pathological sexpot. That's why he's faded away as a non-entity. If you read his biography--you have his biological father, a traveling salesman also named Bill, who greatly prioritized mating. And then--his adoptive father was a temperamental guy & a CAR DEALER for gods' sake, and you kind of get an idea of the formative influences on Ol' Bills' Psyche. See? Plus, the late, geat martyred JFK(also another narcissist demmacrat)was following the family turdition of being a womanizer, while his wife was expecting. His philanderer Dad alsohad 7 or 8 kids at hme! See? But yeah---libs won't rest until all actual men are politically marginalized & disenfranchised, and used for breeding & warfare, and only alphabet people and feminists are allowed to hold office! Yup. Trust me on that. Nother thing is, if you'd committed a deviant act, or was a party to one, you'd fully remember it. Yup. Believe me; you can take it to the bank. Yup. Forget all this phony-baloney sketchy "can't recall" BS. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.
frugal-one
2-22-23, 5:44pm
Truthfully, the Clinton era was so mild compared to the recent disgusting republicans it is not on a level for comparison.
frugal-one
2-22-23, 10:02pm
Moron trump is now in Ohio bombasting the current administration for his misdeed of deregulating the rail industry’s brake and minimum employee requirements on trains. As usual he is misplacing blame when it should be totally on republicans.
I have to admit that the whiplash of republicans suddenly embracing regulation is jarring. It seems like just the other day when trump was screeching about how he was going to get rid of 50% of them or whatever the eff that stupid eff said.
Is there any evidence that any eliminated rule contributed to this accident? Is there any reasonable expectation that the clutch of rules now being proposed by the Secretary of Waiting to Run for Another Office would have prevented it? Or are they just the usual pandering to union and environmental interests?
It's probably too early to go beyond speculation, although Trump making campaign platform out of it and passing out MAGA hats seemed bit out of line. I suspect the facts will come out eventually, unlike the three mystery balloons that were eliminated by trigger happy speculating strategists.
frugal-one
2-23-23, 3:00pm
[QUOTE=LDAHL;421658]Is there any evidence that any eliminated rule contributed to this accident? Is there any reasonable expectation that the clutch of rules now being proposed by the Secretary of Waiting to Run for Another Office would have prevented it? Or are they just the usual pandering to union and environmental interests?
Another reason not to vote for republicans…. no respect for the environment!
From what I've read the Obama era rule that trump rescinded wasn't broad enough to apply to the train in East Palestine. The rule for improved braking requirements apparently only applied if the train had more than 70 cars of what qualified as hazardous material. The derailed train "only" had 20 cars of what was obviously extremely hazardous material.
invisibleflash
2-26-23, 12:00pm
OP...don't worry. Kids will save us...
5223
Somehow I doubt Reddit poll respondents are representative of the real world.
Reason #987: Marjorie Taylor Greene's current secessionist antics, and her acceptance by the GOP leadership.
frugal-one
2-26-23, 10:20pm
Reason #987: Marjorie Taylor Greene's current secessionist antics, and her acceptance by the GOP leadership.
To not vote republican!
I really think the Republican party's gone mad. It used to produce a few good eggs, but now all their eggs are rotten.
From what I've read the Obama era rule that trump rescinded wasn't broad enough to apply to the train in East Palestine. The rule for improved braking requirements apparently only applied if the train had more than 70 cars of what qualified as hazardous material. The derailed train "only" had 20 cars of what was obviously extremely hazardous material.
It wasn’t even a rule. It was a proposed rule for which the National Academy of Sciences report was inconclusive and for which the GAO questioned the Obama Administration’s data. But if you listened to Chuck Schumer the other day, you could be forgiven for believing that this (apparently irrelevant) rule had been rescinded rather than never implemented in the first place.
It wasn’t even a rule. It was a proposed rule for which the National Academy of Sciences report was inconclusive and for which the GAO questioned the Obama Administration’s data. But if you listened to Chuck Schumer the other day, you could be forgiven for believing that this (apparently irrelevant) rule had been rescinded rather than never implemented in the first place.
You may well be right. I'm not going to go to the trouble of digging up news articles about this. Since you didn't bother sharing any I'll trust the accuracy of what you say.
That said I'm curious if you think the DOT is one of those government agencies that's a waste of tax money and should be reduced or eliminated? And if so, how exactly would we be less likely to have another tragedy like East Palestine? The republican mantra of "regulations bad, freedom good" often bumps up hard against the reality that many regulations are actually "consumer protections" or "environmental protections". Personally I'd rather live in a country where I could trust that regulations will significantly reduce the risk that buying a house near a railroad track means putting one's self and family at risk of exposure to deadly chemicals every time a train with an outdated braking system goes past. This tragedy was largely preventable but for the bribes contributions paid to politicians to minimize the safety requirements of railroad companies when transporting hazardous stuff.
So, some years back, I went to HAZMAT school to get some certifications. And I've had to respond to several "very not good" HAZMAT incidents, three of which involved evacuating most of a village and shutting down an airport.
I'm amazed there aren't more terrifying HAZMAT events - you'd be gobsmacked to know what's on the roads and rails near your homes. And pipelines...
Don't get rid of the DOT.
https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/training/hazmat/erg/emergency-response-guidebook-erg
You may well be right. I'm not going to go to the trouble of digging up news articles about this. Since you didn't bother sharing any I'll trust the accuracy of what you say.
That said I'm curious if you think the DOT is one of those government agencies that's a waste of tax money and should be reduced or eliminated? And if so, how exactly would we be less likely to have another tragedy like East Palestine? The republican mantra of "regulations bad, freedom good" often bumps up hard against the reality that many regulations are actually "consumer protections" or "environmental protections". Personally I'd rather live in a country where I could trust that regulations will significantly reduce the risk that buying a house near a railroad track means putting one's self and family at risk of exposure to deadly chemicals every time a train with an outdated braking system goes past. This tragedy was largely preventable but for the bribes contributions paid to politicians to minimize the safety requirements of railroad companies when transporting hazardous stuff.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-disinformation-train-keeps-on-chugging/?utm_source=recirc-&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=featured-content-trending&utm_term=second
Believe it or not, I don’t think everyone should decide for themselves which side of the road to drive on. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be a bit suspicious whenever government imposes new rules “for our own good”. I’m thinking of all those “emergency” measures that linger on long after the original justification. Or the rules aimed at privileging favored unions, industries or individual companies. Or rules that impose costs far in excess of any benefit they can reasonably be expected to provide.
frugal-one
3-1-23, 12:39pm
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-disinformation-train-keeps-on-chugging/?utm_source=recirc-&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=featured-content-trending&utm_term=second
Believe it or not, I don’t think everyone should decide for themselves which side of the road to drive on. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be a bit suspicious whenever government imposes new rules “for our own good”. I’m thinking of all those “emergency” measures that linger on long after the original justification. Or the rules aimed at privileging favored unions, industries or individual companies. Or rules that impose costs far in excess of any benefit they can reasonably be expected to provide.
Wouldn’t bank on getting a non biased review from the site you indicated. It is from a conservative (meaning big business) viewpoint. We all know how and who they would favor in any instance.
iris lilies
3-1-23, 12:49pm
Wouldn’t bank on getting a non biased review from the site you indicated. It is from a conservative (meaning big business) viewpoint. We all know how and who they would favor in any instance.
Can you show me the non-biased mainstream media sites you useL There are charts that show the political leanings of all mainstream media, and few are without bias.
I think a sophisticated news user peruses more than one news site about a topic while all the while understanding the political leaning of the site he is using.
A common “argument” in social media is casting doubt on the source without addressing the content. It is very easy to do that, the path most easily traveled.
Wouldn’t bank on getting a non biased review from the site you indicated. It is from a conservative (meaning big business) viewpoint. We all know how and who they would favor in any instance.
It provides links to the reports cited and a timeline of the brake rules passage through the government’s various nooks and crannies. But as AOC once opined, there can be a strong preference for being morally right over factual correctness. Once you’ve settled on a cast of heroes and villains, it can be painful to deviate from a preferred narrative.
It provides links to the reports cited and a timeline of the brake rules passage through the government’s various nooks and crannies. But as AOC once opined, there can be a strong preference for being morally right over factual correctness. Once you’ve settled on a cast of heroes and villains, it can be painful to deviate from a preferred narrative.
You have shown that… by voting for Ron Johnson who was a traitor and not factually or morally correct…. is a prime example!
[/B]
You have shown that… by voting for Ron Johnson who was a traitor and not factually or morally correct…. is a prime example!
Yes, and considering the ridiculous hack he was running against, I’d do it again. I was pleased to see he was one of the votes against Biden’s ESG rule.
Yes, and considering the ridiculous hack he was running against, I’d do it again. I was pleased to see he was one of the votes against Biden’s ESG rule.
Thanks for confirming once again that you are happy to vote for an asshat that participated in an attempt led by your party's president to overthrow the government. It's a good reminder of what Maya Angelou once said, “When people show you who they are, believe them the first time.”
Disgusting is all I can say. I hope you get what you deserve.
Disgusting is all I can say. I hope you get what you deserve.
Me too. I think I deserve a country where fewer people mistake hysteria for passion. I think I deserve a country where fewer people can live with an imperial presidency so long as they like the outcome. I think I deserve a country that doesn’t work to replace equality with an enforced “equity”; or that thinks justice applies on some sort of collective basis rather than how one person treats another. I think I deserve a country where the people who turn their cities into open sewers and anarchist playgrounds don’t pretend to be perpetual fonts of compassion and empathy.
It is obvious you are very confused. You have my sympathy.
Me too. I think I deserve a country where fewer people mistake hysteria for passion. I think I deserve a country where fewer people can live with an imperial presidency so long as they like the outcome. I think I deserve a country that doesn’t work to replace equality with an enforced “equity”; or that thinks justice applies on some sort of collective basis rather than how one person treats another. I think I deserve a country where the people who turn their cities into open sewers and anarchist playgrounds don’t pretend to be perpetual fonts of compassion and empathy.
Me too. I think many of us want the same thing with a few variations. There's some disagreement on how to get there.
Me too. I think many of us want the same thing with a few variations. There's some disagreement on how to get there.
Until a few years ago I would've assumed that most of us would've included "politicians that don't participate in an attempt to overthrow the government". I've since learned that for some people that's an entirely unimportant consideration when deciding who to vote for.
flowerseverywhere
3-3-23, 9:31pm
Here is an interesting bill being introduced in Florida requiring bloggers to register with the state if they write about officials. Link to actual proposal in article. it will be interesting to see where it leads but in the meantime lets spend time and taxpayer money on it since there are zero more important problems to worry about.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/florida-bill-require-bloggers-write-governor-legislators-register-stat-rcna73191
Here is an interesting bill being introduced in Florida requiring bloggers to register with the state if they write about officials.
Heck, I'm not even in favor of registering my firearms, much less my Tweets.
Me too. I think many of us want the same thing with a few variations. There's some disagreement on how to get there.
The time to worry is when there is no disagreement expressed.
flowerseverywhere
3-4-23, 10:26am
Here is another interesting bill introduction by another Florida Republican regarding the ability to take children away from parents if they undergo any sex changing treatments.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/254/?Tab=BillHistory
is this really a thing? I have not ever heard of a minor going through this. From what I interpret they can even intercept a child (under 18) from going to another state. Would a doctor even do this?
what is going on? Are these types of bills routinely introduced?
iris lilies
3-4-23, 10:47am
Here is another interesting bill introduction by another Florida Republican regarding the ability to take children away from parents if they undergo any sex changing treatments.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/254/?Tab=BillHistory
is this really a thing? I have not ever heard of a minor going through this. From what I interpret they can even intercept a child (under 18) from going to another state. Would a doctor even do this?
what is going on? Are these types of bills routinely introduced?
YES all kinds of gender medical transitioning is being performed on minors.I am talking about physical/medicalized treatment here. If you think hormone blockers are inconsequential to kids’ health I have a bridge to sell you. And not only the hormone blockers, kids are being given cross sex hormones. Natal females are being given testosterone at young ages fir example.
Like anything else I do not think it’s the business of the state to step in here. I can only hope that minors have thoughtful, intelligent parents who will weigh all options and guide them appropriately. Health practitioners who practice “affirming” care and are part of any sort of trans clinic have already drunk the Kool-Aid and may not be trustworthy.
The Missouri legislature, never a beacon of light, is looking at this issue because a whistleblower who worked at the Washington University Transgender clinic came forth to give lots of data about medicalized treatment of minors.
This whistleblower is a self acclaimed “queer lesbian married to a trans person who is to the political left of Bernie Sanders” so she aint no Trumpie. But what she had seen in her work at the transgender clinic is no longer conscionable to her. Yes, youth are being led into physically damaging their bodies forever.
https://news.stlpublicradio.org/government-politics-issues/2023-02-10/missouri-agencies-launch-investigation-into-health-center-for-transgender-youth
All you need to do is watch a TV show about Jazz Jennings, a youth who has been brutally maimed in multiple surgeries starting up as a minor, at 17. Her parents and surgeon (a trans person. Shock!) worked together thinking they were doing the best thing, but since the TV cameras followed her from a time when she was much younger, they were grooming her for the surgical brutalization.
The UK is years ahead of us, and facing squarely into these issues. Maybe it’s because they are a small island, and the concentration of insanity reached out into the general population quicker than here in the U.S. so that many could understand what was going on. What happened at the Mermaid center is truly unbelievable.
The UK’s main center for treating trans children has pulled back on much of their affirming treatment. Other Scandinavian countries have put a hold on their treatment standards until more research is available.
The world has gone mad.
iris lilies
3-4-23, 10:54am
In my example above Washington University in St. Louis is where this specific trans clinic drama is playing out, even though it’s playing out all over the country in very similar places.
I would like to point out that Washington University, the place of intellectual discovery and high ideals, for years sponsored the Mcdonnell Research Center for Psychic Activity. No children were harmed in that silly years long experiment, though, just millions of Sandy McDonnell’s dollars went down the drain.
iris lilies
3-4-23, 11:26am
Flowers, you are a nurse, do just a little bit of reading to see what’s being done medically to minors in the service of trans affirming care. And do pay attention to Joe Biden’s embracing of affirming care, he issued some sort of dictum about it. It is too bad this is now political because children are being harmed.
Hell, we in the dog world have to fight the “shelter standard “of neutering and spaying pets too early. Bulldogs who are neutered too early lose their sex hormones and they grow longer and leaner than nature intended. Sex hormones cause bone plates to close, slowing and stopping growth ( a good thing,)
This has consequences later in their lives for bone density, and other issues.
I see parallels to puberty blockers with kids.
iris lilies
3-4-23, 12:33pm
The time to worry is when there is no disagreement expressed.
Or also worry when the disagreement is not allowed to be expressed.
frugal-one
3-4-23, 12:40pm
Here is another interesting bill introduction by another Florida Republican regarding the ability to take children away from parents if they undergo any sex changing treatments.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/254/?Tab=BillHistory
is this really a thing? I have not ever heard of a minor going through this. From what I interpret they can even intercept a child (under 18) from going to another state. Would a doctor even do this?
what is going on? Are these types of bills routinely introduced?
I thought the premise of republicans is to want less government intervention? Or is it only when it serves their agenda?
iris lilies
3-4-23, 12:50pm
I thought the premise of republicans is to want less government intervention? Or is it only when it serves their agenda?
Small government is a goal for some of us Republicans.
Small government is a goal for some of us Republicans.
Yes. Small, local government without any messianic pretensions.
Yes. Small, local government without any messianic pretensions.
Then how do you explain post 1673 by flowerseverywhere?
Then how do you explain post 1673 by flowerseverywhere?
Is the GOP the perfect instrument for my brand of conservatism? No, although even in its present state it’s head and shoulders above the alternative. I’m not so trapped in the Guelph and Ghibelline mindset that so many suffer from that I feel the need to defend everyone in one camp and attack everyone in the other.
I will say that as a parent of a trans kid that I have little time or patience for either side of that ridiculous new branch of identity politics. Look at that imbecilic imbroglio currently playing out at the New York Times, for instance.
LDAHL, Which of the current republican party priorities are you such a fan of?
LDAHL, Which of the current republican party priorities are you such a fan of?
I like that they want to gain some measure of control over the southern border. I think setting up a Select Committee on the CCP was a good idea and long overdue. I know people are whining about how they “want to investigate every little thing”, but I think there is no shortage of abuse out there that could stand a little scrutiny. Everybody clapped like seals when the president called the big entitlement programs inviolate, but something will need to be done before long or they will go insolvent. I don’t see the Democrats doing anything about that. I liked that they worked to block that egregious new criminal code for DC. From what I am reading, they are looking for ways to keep the Executive Branch from exercising powers not granted it by the Constitution such as the ridiculous student loan giveaway.
As always, I’m guardedly optimistic about the future.
I noticed in today's news that the GOP is putting together an energy package what the news claims as their first big agenda item. It seems to have the trade mark of old school GOP fossil fuel encouragement, like opening up more public lands for oil development and renewing any keystone XL line efforts. Of course it has little chance of passing in the current regime, but I suppose they would like to keep the effort alive as a campaign issue since no one like expensive gas. In my biased view of things, human caused climate change denial, or at the best lip service, is the second big lie of the GOP.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/06/mccarthy-energy-bill-climate-house-republicans-00085415
I wonder if voters were offered the choice of SS and Medicare cutbacks, or an across the board tax increase, which the voters would choose?
I noticed in today's news that the GOP is putting together an energy package what the news claims as their first big agenda item. It seems to have the trade mark of old school GOP fossil fuel encouragement, like opening up more public lands for oil development and renewing any keystone XL line efforts. Of course it has little chance of passing in the current regime, but I suppose they would like to keep the effort alive as a campaign issue since no one like expensive gas. In my biased view of things, human caused climate change denial, or at the best lip service, is the second big lie of the GOP.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/06/mccarthy-energy-bill-climate-house-republicans-00085415
I wonder if voters were offered the choice of SS and Medicare cutbacks, or an across the board tax increase, which the voters would choose?
I don’t think you need to be a climate change denier to recognize the foolishness of scrapping sources of energy before the replacements are available.
early morning
3-6-23, 3:03pm
Scrapping and refusing to expand are NOT the same thing.
I don’t think you need to be a climate change denier to recognize the foolishness of scrapping sources of energy before the replacements are available.
I don't think it's quite that simple. There are fossil fuels replacements at a cost, and there is a cost with not doing anything about climate change. For those who don't recognize there is a problem or that it's not important, the solution will probably be very elusive.
flowerseverywhere
3-6-23, 9:39pm
Yes. Small, local government without any messianic pretensions.
I almost laughed out loud. Like the t shirt a woman wore in my local grocery store that said Trump is my Jesus? About people quoting the Christian bible to prevent abortions, morning after pills And some contraceptives? All the while advocating for the death penalty?
About demonizing women and subjecting them and their children to poverty while child support goes uncollected? Taking kids away from their parents because of their gender preferences?
I'm all for small government if schools, police, fire and healthcare are functioning well. But Our government, insurance companies, and Institutions are so bloated and full of consultants, managers, CEO's and so on things are totally out of whack. It runs across both parties.
iris lilies
3-7-23, 9:51am
I almost laughed out loud. Like the t shirt a woman wore in my local grocery store that said Trump is my Jesus? About people quoting the Christian bible to prevent abortions, morning after pills And some contraceptives? All the while advocating for the death penalty?
About demonizing women and subjecting them and their children to poverty while child support goes uncollected? Taking kids away from their parents because of their gender preferences?
I'm all for small government if schools, police, fire and healthcare are functioning well. But Our government, insurance companies, and Institutions are so bloated and full of consultants, managers, CEO's and so on things are totally out of whack. It runs across both parties.
Perhaps you didn't read the “ without messianic pretensions” part?
frugal-one
3-10-23, 6:09pm
Seeing republicans in a variety of states (OH and PA for starters) are trying to reduce child labor laws. One was to let kids go into coal mines if it was as a possible career choice. Really.
Seeing republicans in a variety of states (OH and PA for starters) are trying to reduce child labor laws. One was to let kids go into coal mines if it was as a possible career choice. Really.
So you don't appreciate the republican desire to romanticize the lifestyle of Oliver Twist? Personally I'm looking forward to the rollback of food safety rules so that we can relive Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle". Combine the two and you surely have a modern day capitalist's utopia!
Now here's an interesting Republican:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/10/opinion/thomas-massie-republican-party.html
catherine
3-11-23, 12:36am
Now here's an interesting Republican:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/10/opinion/thomas-massie-republican-party.html
I could get behind:
"But Mr. Massie’s lifestyle and brand of politics, the same brand that once marked him as a quirky outlier, have aligned with the current political moment — when many on the right and left are looking to pull back from the hyper-complex systems that govern the modern world, and move toward a more rooted way of life"
and
"The proposal that best shows his political vision is the PRIME Act, which would allow small farmers to process meat at local facilities, rather than at large slaughterhouses that have the funds to pay for a full-time, on-site U.S.D.A. inspector. This offers a way to sidestep a meat production system dominated by an oligopoly of four gigantic corporations whose environmentally destructive, deeply cruel processes barely resemble the act of farming as we once understood it."
and
"He suggested that it will be impossible for 'eight billion people on a finite planet' to build an ecological future while still maintaining our system of unrestrained material consumption."
Other things, not as much, but he certainly is an interesting Republican
frugal-one
3-11-23, 6:59am
Small farmers here go to local meat slaughtering facilities… that is nothing new or requires needed change?? USDA inspectors are not paid by private companies….definitely would be a conflict of interest. Sounds like this guy is just looking to push the “hot buttons” … to see what will stick?
BTW… Can’t read the article without signing in.
We get our beef processed at a small local place already. Not sure what this guy is crusading for.
Joel Salatin would like to be able to process his own beef.
https://a.co/d/ir01JxM
We get our beef processed at a small local place already. Not sure what this guy is crusading for.
He's crusading for making it easier for local farmers to have their beef slaughtered locally, so that meat processors can better compete with the extremely destructive, inhumane, pervasive practices of the concentrated animal feed lots that, as he says, are owned by an oligarchy of six corporations.
You think everyone gets their beef slaughtered by small local businesses? 90% of eggs and beef come from CAFOs. They shut out the small processors.
flowerseverywhere
3-12-23, 7:26am
Another “interesting” republican
Lauren Boebert is praising her son who at seventeen will be making her a 36 YO grandmother.
Hooray! A wonderful role model for our youth
https://people.com/politics/rep-lauren-boebert-reveals-she-will-be-a-grandmother/
party of family values.
iris lilies
3-12-23, 9:38am
Another “interesting” republican
Lauren Boebert is praising her son who at seventeen will be making her a 36 YO grandmother.
Hooray! A wonderful role model for our youth
https://people.com/politics/rep-lauren-boebert-reveals-she-will-be-a-grandmother/
party of family values.
would you rather she publicly shamed him?
I doubt she thinks this is a good and smart move.
I doubt she thinks this is a good and smart move.
Why wouldn't she? He's only slightly younger than she was when she had him.
iris lilies
3-12-23, 1:01pm
Why wouldn't she? He's only slightly younger than she was when she had him.
Maybe, who knows.
So much judginess for welcoming a grandchild. Gheesh.
How old are you supposed to be before you have a kid?
I doubt she thinks this is a good and smart move.
So much judginess for welcoming a grandchild. Gheesh.
Indeed.
frugal-one
3-12-23, 2:58pm
How old are you [B]supposed to be before you have a kid?
Dunno about supposed… but hopefully old enough to support and take care of it!
I have kin in Boebert territory. It's a whole other mindset over there.
I have kin in Boebert territory. It's a whole other mindset over there.
If it's a valuing children mindset, I hope it spreads.
It seems much less concerning than some of her official activities.
I was born and raised in Boebert's voting district. A lot of it is just poor rural and small town America with a fairly large Hispanic population, but unusually diverse. It also includes Aspen and some exclusive tourist ski towns. It certainly doesn't compare to the third world rural areas in the south. I doubt she will survive another election. She was sort of caught up on the Trump era coat tails.
Teens know how not to get pregnant but certainly don't understand the long-term consequences of having a child at a very young age.
Teens know how not to get pregnant but certainly don't understand the long-term consequences of having a child at a very young age.
If the only sex ed they've been taught is the foolishness of "abstinence only" they may well not know how to not get pregnant.
frugal-one
3-13-23, 3:52am
If it's a valuing children mindset, I hope it spreads.
At age 17? You want a run on 17 year old parents? Now that is sick.
rosarugosa
3-13-23, 5:58am
I'm very grateful to have been born to adult parents.
catherine
3-13-23, 10:08am
At age 17? You want a run on 17 year old parents? Now that is sick.
In the old days, it wasn't uncommon to have children at 18. Actually, my niece had a baby at 18. Her parents, with whom she has a very close relationship (she was living with them at the time) didn't even know! My SIL suspected. My brother got a call at work summoning him to the hospital where he learned that he had become a grandfather! There is nothing "wrong" with my niece and she raised her son and her other children spectacularly.
I don't think there is anything categorically wrong with having children young; it does require a lot of support, though. I think it's interesting that the pendulum has swung and the trend is to have kids in your 30s and beyond so you can "live life" first and "save for a house" first and all that. Nothing wrong with that either, of course, but different strokes for different folks. My brand of "living life" was to have children in my 20s, and although I didn't wait to have kids until after I had enough money for a house, I wound up with a house anyway, and a bunch of wonderful kids to fill it.
Social rules can be so punishing.
At age 17? You want a run on 17 year old parents? Now that is sick.
No, I'm not in favor of 17 year old parents, but it happens despite mine or your wishes. Having gone through that myself when my 18 year old daughter gave birth I understand that the worst thing a parent can do is stigmatize the event and I refuse to do so for anyone in that position. That's a sickness we can avoid.
frugal-one
3-13-23, 3:59pm
Alan.. You helped your kid and, most likely, the gov subsidized them too. At 17, it is unimaginable that they could be self sufficient. The sickness is those who promote having children at 17 or younger.
iris lilies
3-13-23, 4:01pm
Alan.. You helped your kid and, most likely, the gov subsidized them too. At 17, it is unimaginable that they could be self sufficient. The sickness is those who promote having children at 17 or younger.
I wouldn’t call it “promoting” so much as making the best of things that are real.
What is the age of marriage in various states in the USA? And what is that age with parental consent?
Alan.. You helped your kid and, most likely, the gov subsidized them too. At 17, it is unimaginable that they could be self sufficient. The sickness is those who promote having children at 17 or younger.
Who is promoting it?
I was out on my own and self sufficient at 17, my wife was in the same position at 18. My daughter was married at 18 and her husband was 19. They bought their first house when she was 20 and both have done very well. My mom was one month past her 18th birthday when I was born, my dad had just turned 21, it's not unimaginable.
When my paternal grandparents married, he was 17 and she was 14, they eventually thrived although he liked to remind her that during that first year or so of marriage, he nearly starved to death because when he came in from the fields at noon each day, she was was more often than not too busy playing with the neighbor kids to prepare lunch. So there's that.
frugal-one
3-13-23, 4:51pm
Who is promoting it?
I was out on my own and self sufficient at 17, my wife was in the same position at 18. My daughter was married at 18 and her husband was 19. They bought their first house when she was 20 and both have done very well. My mom was one month past her 18th birthday when I was born, my dad had just turned 21, it's not unimaginable.
When my paternal grandparents married, he was 17 and she was 14, they eventually thrived although he liked to remind her that during that first year or so of marriage, he nearly starved to death because when he came in from the fields at noon each day, she was was more often than not too busy playing with the neighbor kids to prepare lunch. So there's that.
How many years ago are you talking about, Alan? I seriously doubt a 17 year old could do what you describe today!
A kid in my daughter's high school class graduated pregnant. She was one of the top students. She got married before graduation, delivered after graduation, and she and her husband now have several kids, and a highly productive farm.
They had some family help in procuring the land for the farm, but built the house there and the outbuildings and barns with their own hands, and with $$$ they raised themselves. By the time my daughter had finished her Master's degree, these other kids were running a profitable and growing farm, and now have multiple children.
My own parents were ~19 when I was born.
How many years ago are you talking about, Alan? I seriously doubt a 17 year old could do what you describe today!
26 years ago for my daughter, 50 years ago for me, 68 years ago for my parents, about 86 years ago for my grandparents. What makes it more difficult now?
I certainly don't think it's "sick" for a 17-year old to have a baby. From the perspective of evolution and maturing, a woman's peak childbearing years are late teens through 20s, and then fertility starts to decline. So in that context it's perfectly natural for a 17-18-19 year old woman to have a baby. Maybe it's our culture that's "sick" by setting standards and expectations that run counter to nature.
frugal-one
3-13-23, 5:44pm
26 years ago for my daughter, 50 years ago for me, 68 years ago for my parents, about 86 years ago for my grandparents. What makes it more difficult now?
At age 17 or 18 now or even 20… what person can save enough for a home without help or a higher education? I had my own home at age 22 but that was 50 years ago. I doubt that would be likely now. The costs now are very prohibitive.
I don’t care about peak child rearing years. Is that person able to take care of the child and support themselves without help or living in poverty? At 17… I don’t think so.
iris lilies
3-13-23, 7:35pm
At age 17 or 18 now or even 20… what person can save enough for a home without help or a higher education? I had my own home at age 22 but that was 50 years ago. I doubt that would be likely now. The costs now are very prohibitive.
I don’t care about peak child rearing years. Is that person able to take care of the child and support themselves without help or living in poverty? At 17… I don’t think so.
I guess you have missed my oh-so-enlightening cost comparison studies of my home mortgage payments now vs. then 40 years ago and my graduate degree cost comparison of now vs. then.
hint: the typical mortage rate when I was single and looking to buy first house was 14%.
At this time last year, and for a few years prior, rates were 3% -4%.
That rate makes a huge difference. But today the rates have gone up. Thanks Joe Biden!
But today the rates have gone up. Thanks Joe Biden!
How did Joe Biden cause mortgage rates to go up?
iris lilies
3-13-23, 10:56pm
How did Joe Biden cause mortgage rates to go up?
Dude, he’s in the White House so he gets the credit. I don’t honestly think the president can do much about the economy outside of some tweaks that might result in slight changes. But he sure takes credit for the good stuff that happens.
frugal-one
3-14-23, 1:25am
I guess you have missed my oh-so-enlightening cost comparison studies of my home mortgage payments now vs. then 40 years ago and my graduate degree cost comparison of now vs. then.
hint: the typical mortage rate when I was single and looking to buy first house was 14%.
At this time last year, and for a few years prior, rates were 3% -4%.
That rate makes a huge difference. But today the rates have gone up. Thanks Joe Biden!
The cost of a house when I bought mine (actually was less than 50 years ago) was less than a price of a new car now. The interest rate was higher but the mortgage was, what, 1000% cheaper? It took us 2 years (without a college degree) to save for a down payment. I doubt a 17-20 year old could do that now!
The cost of a house when I bought mine (actually was less than 50 years ago) was less than a price of a new car now. The interest rate was higher but the mortgage was, what, 1000% cheaper? It took us 2 years (without a college degree) to save for a down payment. I doubt a 17-20 year old could do that now!
That's true, but you are assuming, as I said in an earlier post, that there is some rule that people have to go to college and buy a house. Some people prefer renting. There are jobs that pay well that don't require a college education. No one said raising kids is easy under any circumstance, but I never saw it written that people have to 1. graduate from HS, 2. graduate from college 3. secure good job. 4. save up for several years 5. buy house 6. have kids. 7. make sure you've traveled and had a good time because after you have kids your life is going to suck. I think this unwritten American playbook is in the collective consciousness and I don't buy it.
rosarugosa
3-14-23, 8:38am
I suppose maturity is the more critical factor for parenthood rather than age. I suspect my mother would have been mature enough to effectively parent at 18. As for myself, I feel like I'm not quite ready yet at age 64. :laff:
frugal-one
3-14-23, 9:04am
catherine…as noted above, I was expounding on IL post about purchasing a house. Obviously, it is not a prerequisite in life…. nor is college. But being very young and uneducated and having children has proven to be a more difficult or impossible endeavor (in today’s world especially) unless receiving government or family aid. With the recent republican recommendations of cutting food stamps and other child enrichment programs… it will only be more difficult. What jobs as a 17 year old do you know of that pay well (and your definition of paying well) and how many of them are available? And, catherine, you right in that there are no rules but why encourage hardship and possibly poverty … that was what I took from Alan’s previous post as being sick.
iris lilies
3-14-23, 10:38am
catherine…as noted above, I was expounding on IL post about purchasing a house. Obviously, it is not a prerequisite in life…. nor is college. But being very young and uneducated and having children has proven to be a more difficult or impossible endeavor (in today’s world especially) unless receiving government or family aid. With the recent republican recommendations of cutting food stamps and other child enrichment programs… it will only be more difficult. What jobs as a 17 year old do you know of that pay well (and your definition of paying well) and how many of them are available? And, catherine, you right in that there are no rules but why encourage hardship and possibly poverty … that was what I took from Alan’s previous post as being sick.
You mention chatter in Congress to cut food stamps, but you ignore the actual cutting of food stamps that went on in this White House administration. Now there are reasons for that, and I happen to agree with them, but in the interest of fairness I mention that food stamps have been actually cut in early 2023.
frugal-one
3-14-23, 11:50am
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2023/02/16/food-stamps-gop-proposed-cuts/
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/13/republicans-snap-benefits-cuts-00086638
catherine
3-14-23, 11:51am
catherine…as noted above, I was expounding on IL post about purchasing a house. Obviously, it is not a prerequisite in life…. nor is college. But being very young and uneducated and having children has proven to be a more difficult or impossible endeavor (in today’s world especially) unless receiving government or family aid. With the recent republican recommendations of cutting food stamps and other child enrichment programs… it will only be more difficult. What jobs as a 17 year old do you know of that pay well (and your definition of paying well) and how many of them are available? And, catherine, you right in that there are no rules but why encourage hardship and possibly poverty … that was what I took from Alan’s previous post as being sick.
I didn't take it that Alan was encouraging parenthood for 17-year olds.
And, to be clear, I defiinitely don't support 17 year olds having babies if they had the babies because their state outlaws abortion. But I still maintain that the culture is way more sick than a tolerance for teenage motherhood.
frugal-one
3-14-23, 11:56am
I agree catherine… cutting SNAP and other aid for mothers is unconscionable too. I would imagine few 17 year olds purposefully get pregnant?
iris lilies
3-14-23, 7:32pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2023/02/16/food-stamps-gop-proposed-cuts/
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/13/republicans-snap-benefits-cuts-00086638
right, you already said this.
I am getting crickets from you about the cuts that recently took place.
frugal-one
3-14-23, 8:47pm
crickets? So you already know why not to vote republican then.
iris lilies
3-14-23, 9:06pm
crickets? So you already know why not to vote republican then.
To make it clear, what do you think of the cuts that took place recently on Joe Biden’s watch?
frugal-one
3-14-23, 9:26pm
IL…you need to expound…
iris lilies
3-14-23, 9:33pm
IL…you need to expound…
Mr. Google is your friend here.
frugal-one
3-15-23, 1:34pm
Mr. Google is your friend here.
Google is your friend too…
I'm not sure google is anybody's friend.
iris lilies
3-15-23, 2:09pm
I'm not sure google is anybody's friend.
Haha! But really I LOVE the Google machine. Jeez, the stuff you can find now instantaneously while sitting on your couch at home. You once had to trudge down to the library to open musty old books and deal with musty old librarians.
You can now even get academic research reported verbatim in academic journals. That stuff used to be subscription only. I confess to not knowing exactly how much Google accesses and how that body of information differs from the expensive databases supplied to citizens by public libraries, but egad it is still wonderful even if limited.
Haha! But really I LOVE the Google machine. Jeez, the stuff you can find now instantaneously while sitting on your couch at home. You once had to trudge down to the library to open musty old books and deal with musty old librarians.
You can now even get academic research reported verbatim in academic journals. That stuff used to be subscription only. I confess to not knowing exactly how much Google accesses and how that body of information differs from the expensive databases supplied to citizens by public libraries, but egad it is still wonderful even if limited.
I'm with you. I get the Google Twitch all the time, at a moment's notice, if some question, with or without merit, pops into my head. Honestly, I have so much to criticize about modern technology, but I say this without exaggeration, I believe I am a better person because of the Internet.
I'm with you. I get the Google Twitch all the time, at a moment's notice, if some question, with or without merit, pops into my head. Honestly, I have so much to criticize about modern technology, but I say this without exaggeration, I believe I am a better person because of the Internet.
I used to have to simply remember things. Or remember which book in my library contained the thing.
This filled up a lot of brain space.
Now I just have to remember that a thing is a thing, and be able to construct a sufficiently-narrow search string to fetch up the information from The Planetary Overmind. It's sure increased productivity.
Speaking of Planetary Overminds, I think it’s interesting how programs like ChatGPT answer questions with replies that often reflect the biases, misconceptions and prejudices of a sort of rough internet consensus.
Speaking of Planetary Overminds, I think it’s interesting how programs like ChatGPT answer questions with replies that often reflect the biases, misconceptions and prejudices of a sort of rough internet consensus.
So, we typically like to keep children off the Internet until they develop critical thinking skills.
ChatGPT was *trained* on the Internet, from birth, so it's not surprising that it, and other similar AIs, behave the way they do....
(See also the "Terminator" franchise.)
All that effort and investment, and we just get lectured by a know-it-all adolescent?
All that effort and investment, and we just get lectured by a know-it-all adolescent?
The thing is, it's improving at a rate that is hard to comprehend. The version that went to beta this week is *vastly* more powerful than the version of a month ago. And it's still an infant.
Exponential processes are difficult to have an intuition for.
The thing is, it's improving at a rate that is hard to comprehend. The version that went to beta this week is *vastly* more powerful than the version of a month ago. And it's still an infant.
Exponential processes are difficult to have an intuition for.
Yes, and then we’ll be ruled by a know-it-all adolescent.
I’d like to offer my thoughts and prayers to Ron desantis. It appears that his efforts to use the state’s powers to punish Disney for having the nerve to exercise their first amendment rights haven’t worked out so well. It must suck to be outsmarted by Mickey Mouse.
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