Iris lilies, how are things in your hood?

[iris lilies]

Vic, not Vince. I know because my wife had a crush on the character, a bad boy with a heart of gold (says she).

Oh yes, Vic! Vic Mackey! He's one of the greatest characters of all times. And I got very choked up when Lemonhead (Curtis Lemenowsky or something like that) bought the farm.

[Alan]

IL, Thank You. You have made it clear here that you are not just handing out a free pass to the police. I really respect that. Rob

You know, I haven't seen anyone give a free pass to the police. What I've seen in this discussion is the tendency to blame the police without the benefit of facts. And by the way, more often than not social media does not deal in facts, but rather emotion and biases. Rabble rousing is not a sound basis for justice, and "what I would like to see" is a poor substitute for due process.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Though we can not know how this is going to unfold, has anyone thought of the consequences if there is no indictment of the officer involved? Ouch. Just ouch. All I can say is if there is no indictment, there better be extremely solid, logical, and easy to understand evidence backing this decision up. Vague legal games are not going to fly on this one, not with all the hate and tension simmering and not with all the international attention focused on Ferguson. Though I will say one thing - if there is no indictment - maybe this is what it will take for America in general to learn? Sad but maybe so.....Rob

[LDAHL]

I came across something scathingly brilliant online last night - someone suggested that with all the lawsuits coming up due to over the top police behavior in Ferguson, that the settlements come out of the pension fund for the Ferguson police department. I'd be down with that, too, and it would create peer pressure to behave as one of the big perks of being a cop would disappear. I think this idea is even better than mine as it would allow for due process - and since the eyes of the world are on this case, any perception of the Ferguson police being above the law will have international and economic consequences. It's about time the police were put under the microscope like that, especially after what I have witnessed here in Phoenix and after what the police have been pulling after the shooting death of Michael Brown.

You seem fixated on pensions, Rob. If a cop is found guilty, why not treat him like any other convicted murderer? It would seem that trying to assign some kind of collective guilt to the members of a police department smacks of the sort of thinking all the people that are so quick to attribute racist motivations to incidents like this are accusing the cops of.

But fear not, the unfunded obligations of many public pensions in this country are so egregious, you may get your wish anyway.

[gimmethesimplelife]

You know, I haven't seen anyone give a free pass to the police. What I've seen in this discussion is the tendency to blame the police without the benefit of facts. And by the way, more often than not social media does not deal in facts, but rather emotion and biases. Rabble rousing is not a sound basis for justice.

Perhaps there is something to what you say. I know that when I see the police anywhere, based on what I have witnessed them get away with, I auto-expect them to be up to no good and breaking laws with complete and total immunity. I can't see this ever changing on my part, either. America has taught me otherwise. But there is a tendency I have seen online to blame before the facts....very liberal of me but I do see a point here. The problem is, the heavy handedness of the police SINCE the shooting is leading to the perception that police are auto-guilty. Police behavior in Ferguson since the shooting is definitely not helping their side of the case and public perceptions of the police in Ferguson, and I've said before in this post, for better or worse, for many people this is all going to boil down to perception. It's kind of like being a waiter. You can get a guest who complains for something totally that you had no control over and you can get fired for this even though the guest was wrong - all due to something called perception. I believe police everywhere are going to be stunned to realize they are vulnerable to this concept too, and they may want to be making plan Bs and back up retirement plans to cover themselves. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

You seem fixated on pensions, Rob. If a cop is found guilty, why not treat him like any other convicted murderer? It would seem that trying to assign some kind of collective guilt to the members of a police department smacks of the sort of thinking all the people that are so quick to attribute racist motivations to incidents like this are accusing the cops of.

But fear not, the unfunded obligations of many public pensions in this country are so egregious, you may get your wish anyway.

To have that degree of immunity to the law and any consequences for breaking the law AND get a pension? This is too much for me, hence the resentment that police collect pensions. Rob

[LDAHL]

To have that degree of immunity to the law and any consequences for breaking the law AND get a pension? This is too much for me, hence the resentment that police collect pensions. Rob

So pursue the guy for wrongful death in civil court and attach his pension (provided you've got sufficient evidence). Why the drive for guilt by association?

[gimmethesimplelife]

So pursue the guy for wrongful death in civil court and attach his pension (provided you've got sufficient evidence). Why the drive for guilt by association?

I have seen police brutality just because someone is Hispanic - i.e, guilt by association, same thing. As to how this relates to pensions, it could create an environment of peer pressure to behave due to terror of pension loss. I can't think of a better way to keep the police in line - terror of economic loss can be quite an effective tool. Look at how corporations use this to squeeze the last drop out of workers these days. Rob

[dmc]

I thought the police in Ferguson showed great restraint. While under attach from an unruly mob they didn't open fire with real bullets.

[dmc]

I'd like to see Rob walk around North or East St. Louis at night. He would be hoping for a police escort and thinking the cops are way underpaid for what they have to deal with.