Iris lilies, how are things in your hood?

[iris lilies]

Well, Iris: I'm just trying to figure out what you kids are still doing in da hood after what--25 years? It sounds like you are very much at-risk for being a crime victim of the hard-core underclass, there. As you said, many disadvantaged people(immigrants) have come and gone on to safer areas, as soon as they climbed the economic ladder. Again, my question is: Whaddya waiting for?

You will not pry my old, Victorian house and this neighborhood from my cold, dead hands. That is, until I am done with it.
The thugs and fools won't be pushing me out.

[CathyA]

I suppose I would get flamed, if I offered up the possibility that some people are driven genetically to be violent and fairly incapable of ever becoming "civilized"?

Iris Lily......about your picture.........we could only hope that his pants finally fell down, causing the gun to go off and shoot him and his cohort.

[catherine]

I wondered how you were counting "generations" since I figured 1=20 years and that ticking clock rang a few years ago. about 2005. Notice that nothing has changed. Derrick Jensen is just one more pontificating blowhard.

There is institutionalized racism in this country, and in all countries. It's sad and unfortunate that dark skin=more distrust and dislike heaped upon people. Of course, it's not just skin color in the U.S., it's a whole culture of values and behaviors that the underclass cling to, and that cause disrespect/fear/distrust/ and that does not serve them well, at least if they aspire to secure a stable economic place in our society. Is it worse in the U.S? It's worse here than in some places. It's better here than in some places. And it's worse/better here in the U.S. depending upon region. But "women are the n.i.g.g.e.r.s of the world" according to famed philosophers* so African Americans do not have the market cornered on victim-hood.

Now that the looting and rioting is over for the moment in my metro area, the airwaves, print media and tv are overwhelmed with racism discussions, calls for race discussion, and planning for discussion of race.

Yawn, I think I will avoid "The Conversation" since I've been hearing this stuff for 25 years and it bores me. At one time I was open and willing to participate, having been well trained up by educated liberal parents who lived in a lily white state in a white suburb (we had one African American in my class of 240 students and he was elected class President. His father was a physician. He was pretty suburban) then I moved to the 'hood and got real about criminals and the po-lice here.

In my neighborhood the po-lice are on my side, no questions, it is clear.We know our beat cop by name, DH regularly calls him (just called him this week in fact about a door nob theft) and we strive toward good relations with the police department. We take up collections for him, we attend Guns And Hoses each year and/or donate (fundraiser fo Backstoppers) and we furnish the police substation with food and drink. We cultivate the presence of police here because they keep the bad guys at bay.


*yoko and john lennon

Well, IL, Derrick Jensen may be a pontificating blowhard (and in many cases he is, as I'm getting to know him, yet he raises a lot of really good points about civilization). But the 7 generations thing is all me. I thnk the point is, it takes a very long time to undo the "sins of the father." And yes, we're still in it, but we've made great progress overall.

I also agree with you that discrimination against women is also formidable. Didn't Shirley Chisholm state once that she experienced much more discrimination on the basis of her being a woman than on the basis of her race?

I also am not prepared to start up the Race Talk, just like I'm also sick of the Abortion Talk, but to me, watching Ferguson play out on TV, it's like watching the epidermis of society peeled off, and all the stuff that's underneath that doesn't get talked about starts oozing out.

And, IL, I totally respect your viewpoint over that of educated liberal parents in the lily white suburbs.

[Florence]

What an interesting thread this is! Iris is a much braver person than I am. We moved out to the country about 10 years ago when our little neighborhood got ringed by rent-subsidized apartments.

[sweetana3]

We have a suddenly exploding inner city. Three Section 9 complexes in one area are now being converted to market rate. They have always been near the hospital and university but the demand is off the charts. Thousands (really!) of new apartments have recently come on the market and filled immediately. I wonder if this is the fallout now of the mortgage crisis and the cost of gas?

[jp1]

I suppose I would get flamed, if I offered up the possibility that some people are driven genetically to be violent and fairly incapable of ever becoming "civilized"?

I doubt that's the case. If I had to guess I'd say that every ethnic group (or any other segment of society) has a certain percentage, maybe 10%?, who are sociopaths that don't give a shit about other people. At the lower end of the economic spectrum they display this behavior through activities like looting (does anyone honestly believe that anywhere near a majority of the people in Ferguson were looting as opposed to just protesting?) At higher levels this sociopathic behavior presents itself in more "acceptable" ways (Wall Street banksters and mortgage brokers knowingly signing people up for debt they can't possibly pay just because it's profitable.) Among cops the same thing. 90% are probably good decent people who really want to serve their community but 10% take the job because of the power it will give them to be cruel and mean to people without much likelihood of facing consequences.

The only way that a certain group would genetically become more violent would be if they lived in such a brutal world that violent parents were more likely to successfully raise children to adulthood than non-violent people in the same population. Historically black Americans have certainly been mistreated, but I don't think that it's been anywhere near to the level that violent behavior would have resulted in more successful propagation of the next generation.

[JaneV2.0]

I doubt that's the case. If I had to guess I'd say that every ethnic group (or any other segment of society) has a certain percentage, maybe 10%?, who are sociopaths that don't give a shit about other people. At the lower end of the economic spectrum they display this behavior through activities like looting (does anyone honestly believe that anywhere near a majority of the people in Ferguson were looting as opposed to just protesting?) At higher levels this sociopathic behavior presents itself in more "acceptable" ways (Wall Street banksters and mortgage brokers knowingly signing people up for debt they can't possibly pay just because it's profitable.) Among cops the same thing. 90% are probably good decent people who really want to serve their community but 10% take the job because of the power it will give them to be cruel and mean to people without much likelihood of facing consequences.
...

So good it bears repeating. And I do think there's a strong genetic component to whatever we are.

[CathyA]

I doubt that's the case. If I had to guess I'd say that every ethnic group (or any other segment of society) has a certain percentage, maybe 10%?, who are sociopaths that don't give a shit about other people. At the lower end of the economic spectrum they display this behavior through activities like looting (does anyone honestly believe that anywhere near a majority of the people in Ferguson were looting as opposed to just protesting?) At higher levels this sociopathic behavior presents itself in more "acceptable" ways (Wall Street banksters and mortgage brokers knowingly signing people up for debt they can't possibly pay just because it's profitable.) Among cops the same thing. 90% are probably good decent people who really want to serve their community but 10% take the job because of the power it will give them to be cruel and mean to people without much likelihood of facing consequences.

The only way that a certain group would genetically become more violent would be if they lived in such a brutal world that violent parents were more likely to successfully raise children to adulthood than non-violent people in the same population. Historically black Americans have certainly been mistreated, but I don't think that it's been anywhere near to the level that violent behavior would have resulted in more successful propagation of the next generation.

But isn't that sort of what's happening? The parents of these violent young adults probably have 4-6 other children at home, being raised to turn out the same. While the more educated/"civilized", couples are choosing not to have children.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I think the nice thing about Ferguson - the good that is coming out of this? People are going to be more likely to litigate against the police going forward and ask the hard questions of America and this citizenship going forward. Also - police everywhere are going to have to get used to the power of social media being used against them when they step over the line. Overall, their power going forward is going to be questioned and hopefully flattened a bit. My belief is that this is long, long, long overdue. Rob

[Packy]

I suppose I would get flamed, if I offered up the possibility that some people are driven genetically to be violent and fairly incapable of ever becoming "civilized"?

Iris Lily......about your picture.........we could only hope that his pants finally fell down, causing the gun to go off and shoot him and his cohort.

Cathy, I have a theory that I am genetically driven to be fairly silly, and a littlebittybit uncivilized. So, your theory about a significant number of those people carries some credence with mee. I presume you are referring to those Scots. Well, aren't you?