Iris lilies, how are things in your hood?

[gimmethesimplelife]

I have to say that I can't even begin to fathom this way of thinking - not making a simple phone call to get help for someone that was suffering and possibly being murdered. I think it's inhuman not to do so....

Rob, I've had some bad experiences with the police in my lifetime, directly affecting my family when I was a kid. But I've also seen cops do some amazing heroic things. They lay their lives on the line everyday in their profession. I have utmost respect for most of them and fear some of them as well, so I do understand some of your issues with them. But not making a simple 911 call for someone that needs urgent help is just WRONG as a human being!! You don't even have to be there when the cops and paramedics arrive, just simply get the person some HELP....

I'm not an inhumane person. I do struggle with this. I find it very difficult to live in a country where realistically I am taking a risk making such a call to the police to help someone - I am putting my health and well being on the line as there is no way of knowing if I am going to get a decent cop or if I am going to get power tripping trash. And as you have seen here in this miles long thread there sure is a lot of denial and or acceptance and or pretending it's not happening or at least this doesn't happen in my neighborhood going on - how do I forgive America for the risk making such a call places me at ? How on earth as an adult am I ever supposed to forgive such a thing ? You can perhaps see why I have such problems living in this country when faced with such issues constantly. Though I will say that it's not quite as bad as it used to be - at least now there is access in some states to health care via Medicaid expansion - imagine lack of access to health care coupled with fear of police brutality - really, for some of it's citizens/legal residents, America is no great prize and I rather think that those who sacrificed in World War 2 (and other wars) would be ashamed if they saw what things had deteriorated to. Perhaps this is why I have continued on with this thread so - I am a bit of breath of fresh air around here as I am the one voice here for those who knows this America, who know this reality. Given that I feel nothing for America at this point I don't mind being a voice for the disenfranchised. Here I can change nothing on this thread, that much is true, but at least someone out there has been exposed to a voice that runs counter to what they hear everyday and what society says. At least I have done that much on this thread.

For those of you who think so highly of the police - please answer me this if you would. How do I realistically forgive America for putting me in a position whereby calling the police to come to the aid of someone else places me at risk for illegal attack/assault on the part of the police? How does one realistically forgive America for this risk and why am I supposed to just accept it and pretend it's not there - why is America worth this denial? For those who spring so quickly to the defense of the police, imagine living with such questions that pretty much will never go away unless leaving America permanently - even if I were to move to a better area where I'd be at much less risk of the police, I would still know this fear, it will never go away without leaving America. Heavy stuff but very true. The next time you say something or think something nice about the police, remember me and my neighborhood full of people who are afraid of the police - certainly they are best avoided at all costs has been my experience, and I have America to thank for this. At least I'm not in denial and I am speaking the truth of lower income America. Rob

[iris lilies]

...I'm not an inhumane person... I do struggle... I find it very difficult... I am taking a risk... I am putting my health and well being on the line as there is no way of knowing if I am going to get a decent cop or if I am going to get power tripping trash.

...how do I forgive America ...How am I ever... I have such problems living in this country...

But buddy, in this theoretical situation where a girl is being raped, it's not about you.

Theoretical situations aren't very interesting to me in use for argument, but in this one it would be easy to hide behind your door, close the curtains, and call the cops anonymously. Why this is putting your "health and well being on the line" is impossible for me to understand. I would argue that ethically in this situation if you don't call police, you have a moral obligation to go out and pull off the attacker and keep him from further harming her. Or why don't you go flash a smart phone at them? Hey, that'll teach 'em.

In reality, by the time cops get there, the girl will have been brutalized anyway, so she's in a lose/lose situation.

[gimmethesimplelife]

But buddy, in this theoretical situation where a girl is being raped, it's not about you.

Theoretical situations aren't very interesting to me in use for argument, but in this one it would be easy to hide behind your door, close the curtains, and call the cops anonymously. Why this is putting your "health and well being on the line" is impossible for me to understand. I would argue that ethically in this situation if you don't call police, you have a moral obligation to go out and pull off the attacker and keep him from further harming her. Or why don't you go flash a smart phone at them? Hey, that'll teach 'em.

In reality, by the time cops get there, the girl will have been brutalized anyway, so she's in a lose/lose situation.

Other than the experience witnessing police brutality next door to me I have referenced repeatedly, in another thread recently I highlighted a negative experience I had with the police last year in Utah. I will summarize this experience once again IL, and maybe you can understand why I am so afraid of American police.

Last year I accepted a position waiting tables at a lodge near the Flaming Gorge Resort Area of far NE Utah. I was there for a few days and doing well when I had a panic attack on the floor - this is something I had never experienced. Two other servers were nearby in the employee housing and were also trained EMT's - they came over to the restaurant, got me off the floor, and took my BP and pulse, both of which were sky high. They ended out calling an ambulance and the sheriff's office and a hospital in Rock Springs, Wyoming - the closest hospital. The doctor on the phone in Wyoming wanted me to come in via ambulance as my BP and pulse were scary high and I refused as I did not have insurance at the time and THE SHERIFF THREATENED TO TASER AND ARREST ME for my refusal. I ended out crying as I was so frustrated - terrified of my citizenship in action right in front of me, terrified of bankruptcy, terrified of the panic attack which was only getting worse due to all these outside issues - anyway, my pulse and BP went down and the doctor ended out saying I didn't have to come in to the hospital due to this so I dodged a huge bullet. And I'm glad.

Now, my question is - how do I ever forgive America for the sheriff threatening to taser and arrest me? And force me into bankruptcy? I am unable to pretend this didn't happen and I am unable to forgive America for this - this is inexcusable. Here I am in Utah, working, and being productive in society and doing nothing wrong when I am made vulnerable to both my citizenship and the police and how few rights I truly have as an American citizen - I will never be able to interact with the police again after this - I don't even want a pleasant interaction. I'd rather never deal with them again and certainly at this late date I will never be able to trust them again. That is no longer possible now.

Point of all this - I've done no wrong in any of my interactions with the police and I've been pushed into active terror of them through no fault of my own.

PERHAPS THAT FINGER SHOULD BE TURNED AROUND AND POINTED TOWARDS THE POLICE FOR ONCE and not towards me, hmmmm? Just sayin'. Have such experiences with the police through no fault of your own and see how you feel about them then is my suggestion. Then I can realistically talk about the police on equal footing with someone else.....Before this happened, I'm not sure I would have believed it, either.....now, morally and ethically I can't have anything to do with the police as some of them are morally corrupt agents of evil as far as I am concerned. And that's being nice on my part, giving them too much credit. Rob

[iris lilies]

...I will never be able to interact with the police again after this - I don't even want a pleasant interaction. I'd rather never deal with them again...

In the theoretical situation named above:
Surely you can see that a phone call to a dispatcher isn't the same as face to face encounter with the evil police man.

Or maybe not.

[gimmethesimplelife]

In the theoretical situation named above:
Surely you can see that a phone call to a dispatcher isn't the same as face to face encounter with the evil police man.

Or maybe not.

I'd vote for maybe not. As I have explained above, due to these negative experiences with the police through no fault of my own, I have nothing towards them but fear. This will never go away at this late date. Thanks to them, and not me as I have done nothing to warrant this - I am afraid to even pick up the phone and call a dispatcher. Yes. True. I'd thank America for that as this is where the blame belongs and not on me as I have done no wrong that lead to this reaction on my part - it's all on the police in this case. For once someone might want to look at their part and not blame one of the many who have legitimate reasons to fear them. Rob

[dmc]

Rob, you really need to talk with a shrink about this. Your way over the top on this.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob, you really need to talk with a shrink about this. Your way over the top on this.

Hmmmm.....I wonder what your take would be had you had these experiences with the police that I have had? Witnessing police brutality right next door to you? And then at a later date being threatened with taser and arrest due to not wanting to face bankruptcy via being brought to a hospital against your will back when I did not have insurance last year?

See why I have such issues with America and living here? dmc, you don't address the true and honest issues I have brought up but rather point that finger right back at me and find fault with me somehow, saying I might want to see a shrink.....but you don't address the issues behind my beefs with American police. And don't feel singled out - this in my experience is how Americans tend to be - why would I want to citizenship of a country in which such is going to be the dominant reaction to legitimate issues? What kind of hope or joy or meaning can there be in such a country where such statements as yours above are commonplace and real issues are not worth the time of day? Rob

[dmc]

It to bad your neighbors got ruffed up, I wasn't there and don't have any of the facts. And did the police actually do anything to you? They can say anything to try and get you to comply, were they not trying to get you to do what the doctor wanted? If they were really evil they would have just taken you out back and shot you. Instead they were trying to get you to a doctor, the bastards.

And if I was truly worried about my health, bankruptcy is not what I would be worrying about at the time. Get me to an emergency room.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Well I don't think the thread has been about real issues for awhile. Police brutality in this country is a plenty real issue (though I doubt anyone will be converted), but whether or not some police brutality from calling the cops is worth the risk in a case of rape is a time when I think many of those who are plenty critical of the police would consider it. HOWEVER there is a decent chance I wouldn't have a cellphone on me ....

[gimmethesimplelife]

It to bad your neighbors got ruffed up, I wasn't there and don't have any of the facts. And did the police actually do anything to you? They can say anything to try and get you to comply, were they not trying to get you to do what the doctor wanted? If they were really evil they would have just taken you out back and shot you. Instead they were trying to get you to a doctor, the bastards.

And if I was truly worried about my health, bankruptcy is not what I would be worrying about at the time. Get me to an emergency room.

It's not OK to threaten me with taser and arrest for refusing to go to the hospital, dmc. This is completely unacceptable - it is very much the action of a police state. I will never forgive America for this. Ever. How could I? How could anyone? I will say that after the doctor in Wyoming said that I didn't have to come in to the hospital due to my BP and pulse going down, the sheriff left without a word as did the ambulance. But the scars will never go away. You don't threatened someone with taser, arrest and bankruptcy.....not in a country where at the time my life was not worth access to health care without bankruptcy. (though this still holds true in Utah for the next victims of the Daggett County Sheriff's Office as Utah has not expanded Medicaid to date.....) Dmc maybe in your line of thinking this all is acceptable, in mine, it's not. You get to see things your way but don't expect me to ever trust the police again and to feel anything but fear of them and all they stand for. Though one thing I can say as to my part - what I can do is to boycott any state that has not expanded Medicaid, to not waste my time with such states. That won't change anything, I understand that, but it is what little I can realistically do. Rob