Here's something positive after all that drama in Missouri.....

[Alan]

Fun thing is that we were republican at the time......

Just out of curiosity, did you not accept assistance because you were Republican or did your belief in self-reliance make you a Republican? I'm not sure what role your political environment has to the subject unless you're saying that those traits which guided you to a particular party affiliation were the same traits which got you through a hard time.

[Tammy]

Our conservative brand of Christianity (pro life, anti big govt, suspicious of many things, God will heal us, etc) influenced our republicanism. Think Pat Robertson.

We really believed God would provide. We really believed democrats were a slippery slope to hell. Ergo: we can't accept food stamps and welfare because of these beliefs.

Staunch libertarianism meets fundamentalist Christianity meets people who actually tried to live what they believed.

[Tammy]

I'm not sure I answered your question ... I tell this story here first because we are using the bootstraps metaphor the opposite of its meaning which was humorous to me. Secondly I tell this story to show that I've been poor and I've been rich, and isn't it funny how now that I don't qualify for assistance I would actually accept it and I now believe in a safety net for everyone.

Maybe if everyone had the chance to live on both sides we would have more understanding and grace in the ferguson type debates.

[Alan]

I'm not sure I answered your question ... I tell this story here first because we are using the bootstraps metaphor the opposite of its meaning which was humorous to me.

Or perhaps there are multiple meanings to the phrase. Back in the 50's, early computer programmers used the term bootstrapping to describe the process of loading one function into a computer, which then loaded subsequent functions which eventually allowed the computer to "boot".

When I read the phrase, I think of those small actions which build upon themselves to eventually achieve a goal.

[Yossarian]

we are using the bootstraps metaphor the opposite of its meaning which was humorous to me.

It's an idiom, it doesn't need to be literal


http://www.usingenglish.com/referenc...ootstraps.html

Idiom: Pull yourself up by your bootstraps

Meaning 1:

If you pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you make the effort to improve things for yourself.

Meaning 2:

If you pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you improve your problem or situation by your own efforts, without anyone else's help.

[gimmethesimplelife]

About the young man shot and killed in Madison, Wisconsin - I'm not saying he wasn't a thug and I knew of his prior felony charge before posting as I did - I still don't believe shooting and killing him was justified. A spell in prison maybe yes - but killing him, no. It seems to me that for people who have made a serious mistake in their past - like this dead 19 year old, and like Michael Brown in Ferguson - it's way too easy to be deemed disposable by society and end out getting murdered by police. In the past there used to be this wonderful thing called second chances, but something I have learned during research after a post by Lainey a few months back is that if you commit a misdemeanor even - not a felony - good luck finding employment of any kind in this job market with background checks being what they are.

These two young men - Michael Brown and this 19 year old dead in Wisconsin - would really never have had a chance at employment in life due to background checks and not being worth a second chance in life in the United States. It's really depressing to me how easy it is to be disposable to society - even if convicted of a small misdemeanor - yet another reason to fear America. Who here hasn't done something that equals a misdemeanor these days in their life? It seems to me that eventually you could get hauled in and charged for sneezing too loud. Though I will admit that this 19 year old and also Michael Brown committed some serious mistakes, definitely not small misdemeanors. I still believe they were worth a second chance at employment and a place at the table in society. After that second chance, then yes I'm for more stringent punishment such as being unemployable - but then not for life as they would be if they were still alive. Rob

[dmc]

So your saying the thugs should be allowed to attack the police officers? I wonder how many police officers have been killed in the last year by some of these thugs?

[iris lilies]

I think a necessary condition is accepting that one has "agency", by that I mean, some people think they can change their lot in life, and some people think they have no control and are subject to whatever comes their way. The ones who believe they can change their lot in life often do. The ones who don't are not going to do anything to put themselves into a better situation, and "luck" is therefore unlikely to find them. My side of the family has agency, my husband's side of the family has many members who do not have agency. "It's just the way things are", "maybe we'll luck out", "maybe I'll win the lottery", "it'll all work out" (even though its unlikely to) are sayings one hears from people that don't believe they have any effect upon the world.

yes, great post. The concept of agency is, I guess, demonstrated within the culture and within families.

i am fortunate to have, as does, DH, Both sides of our families with agency. That gives one a great launching pad for life in middle class America.

[Tammy]

Regarding the idiom:

https://abetterworldisprobable.wordp...merican-dream/

Quote:

"... it is literally impossible for a person to lift themselves up by their bootstraps, which was the original intention of the expression."

[gimmethesimplelife]

So your saying the thugs should be allowed to attack the police officers? I wonder how many police officers have been killed in the last year by some of these thugs?

Wrong. I am not saying thugs should be allowed to attack police officers any more that police officers should be allowed to attack thugs (or non thugs) on the weakest and flimsiest of excuses such as in some high profile recent incidents. Case in point - if you want to learn something very dark about America, google the recent attack in Alabama on an elderly man from India - he was attacked because he could not speak English to respond to officers questions. The attack left him paralyzed on one side and he's suing for millions as he rightly should.

This is the country we live in - if you approve, more power to you. I did not sign up for out of control government thug police forces. All I can say is I'm grateful I have white skin - not that I believe this is great in and of itself but it does make me less likely to encounter police brutality than if I didn't have white skin. But you know what - if you were to come back and say, what are you doing about it, you'd have a point. This is an issue that causes such terror for so many - I need to be engaging in some kind of legal activism. If nothing else I have the righteous indignation to keep me going with it. Rob