Baltimorei

[gimmethesimplelife]

Welcome to Rob's World:

Bae.....I don't approve of the hose being ruined like this, please have the respect not to attach my name to such an image - I've never once done this to you and no, I don't intend to start.

That out of the way, I've been doing some thinking about Baltimore today and once again, no surprise here, I've got a different take on it than most here will. My take is this - I believe there is a lot of anger out there in society in general. I believe this transcends race, orientation, social class, etc. But here we are dealing with anger from the lower end of society - racial issues and economic issues from those who don't really have much to lose and don't have much stake in society. I'm going to state something here I believe few will actually understand if they have known some level of security in their life and if they have never known fear of the United States. But I'm going to say it anyway.

Be grateful that this event happened and these thugs were able to vent some steam with minimal overall losses. And yes I know there have been some businesses totally unfairly lost, and some very unfair events raining down on those living/doing business in the affected areas of Baltimore. And I'm in no way saying that what has happened is right and I am also not justifying it. My point is - be grateful these thugs were able to vent steam this way without it getting much further out of hand.

Once again, we are talking of a subset of the population that has no real stake in society and does not have much to lose - be grateful they have not banded together from urban area to urban area to urban area to cause widespread mass destruction - some of these thugs have anger to that level and it wouldn't take them much at this point to try at least to cause widespread anarchy.

These thugs are hardly angels and various posters here could go on and on and on about how these thugs broke the law and how they are in the wrong etc, etc, etc. I won't completely disagree with such posts, either. My point is I have the courage to look at society in general and see where society has done these thugs wrong and I have no problem whatsoever with levying some blame at the doorstep of this citizenship. This situation has two sides, it has taken two sides to dance the tango until this happened. Might I suggest having the courage to look and see where society has gone wrong here after blaming the thugs? I have this courage - but then I don't have much stake in this society, either, when you get right down to it. Maybe that's where I am lucky - since I don't have much to lose I can see things differently than most. A dark and ironic and strange gift but a gift nonetheless.

I'm just crossing my fingers and hoping this does not spread to other urban areas - but I don't have faith that the police won't stir the drama pot and I don't have faith that lower income communities won't provoke some of this police behavior that leads to nightmares like the one in Baltimore. Rob

[Yossarian]

Might I suggest having the courage to look and see where society has gone wrong here after blaming the thugs?

I would say we have done them wrong by enabling a victim mindset and fostering a debilitating dependency on public institutions. But you'd never sign off on a productive change to that destructive dynamic. I would however bet you the amount of any large lawsuit verdict you are dreaming of that the problems are cultural and not about class, race or other inflammatory dividers.

What are the differences in subcultures that make one a success and another failures. Why do they call the highest level math classes at our school "asian math"? Genetics, or culture? Why do jews have 0.2% of the world population but 20% of the Nobel prize winners? Why do african immigrants do so much better than native african-americans?

The system is not keeping minorities or the poor down. At least not in my experince. There is however a reality in the world to reinforcing cycles, and they can be hard to break. We probably do need a change to the educational system to better support people who should not go to college. We should make sure the most qualified students get to advance regardless of their economic situation. We should provide a framework of basic care (health or otherwise) to make sure people have a safety net. But at the end of the day the only thing that will drive improvement is people taking responsibility for their own progress.

[Packy]

I was just thinking Yossarian--this whole situation is ALL your fault, due to your very conservative outlook.. the 400 years of slavery, the 150 years of rayciss oppression. You may as well change your screen name to George Wallace or Lester Maddox. Sorry if I sound too crazy. I'm not--just TV-educated. Thankk Mee. You kids should recll that 1989 mooovvee I assigned you to watch? Called: Do The Right Thing? Well, just thought I'd mention that there were two(2) yes two separate scenes in the mooovvee--incidents involving Fire Hydrants. I would elaborate, but don't want to be a spoiler. I would suggest that you find a still-extant video store, and either shoplift a copy of this old mooovvvee(if they have it); or wait until after hours, and smash the windows and steal it. zJust kidding. It is an interesting mooovvee, though.

[jp1]

As someone that lives in a city that routinely has riots over our sports teams (with burning buses and all that, win or lose doesn't seem to matter, just making it to the final game of whatever sport it is) it occurs to me that we've never had a heart wrenching thread regarding what to do about the mostly white thugs that cause those riots. Can we mix that in here or should I start a new thread about it?

[bae]

Bae.....I don't approve of the hose being ruined like this,

.... Be grateful that this event happened and these thugs were able to vent some steam with minimal overall losses.

Rob.

That is a fire hose. The issue isn't that it was ruined. The issue is that there were firefighters at the end of that hose line fighting a fire. The loss of pressure could well have killed or injured them. The hose is their lifeline, especially if there are people working interior. Slashing that hose is little different from shooting at the firefighters.

I realize they have a low stress job compared to waiting tables, but still...

[Packy]

Rob.

That is a fire hose. The issue isn't that it was ruined. The issue is that there were firefighters at the end of that hose line fighting a fire. The loss of pressure could well have killed or injured them. The hose is their lifeline, especially if there are people working interior. Slashing that hose is little different from shooting at the firefighters.

I realize they have a low stress job compared to waiting tables, but still...

Yah, they beez oppresss--how you like it eff you beez oppress?

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob.

That is a fire hose. The issue isn't that it was ruined. The issue is that there were firefighters at the end of that hose line fighting a fire. The loss of pressure could well have killed or injured them. The hose is their lifeline, especially if there are people working interior. Slashing that hose is little different from shooting at the firefighters.

I realize they have a low stress job compared to waiting tables, but still...

Bae, please drop the sarcasm.....please. If we can't have a little respect here on this board, how can we expect situations like the one in Baltimore not to erupt, given the givens and the issues behind them?

Did you not see that I don't side with those who did this? Actions such as this are not going to make friends or influence people.....common sense there. OTOH, Bae, if you lived in poverty in Baltimore I'd be willing to bet your take on life in general might be very different that the one you post here? This situation did not just occur in a vacuum - there are long standing issues behind it. I am against the rioting and the looting and most especially the burning - what possible good can such achieve? But I also understand the anger that causes situations like this to happen.....I've lived in fear of America long enough to "get it" and I'm not siding with the rioters here, I'm just saying that I can understand what drives them to behave this way - right or wrong is not what I am debating when I say this.

What I am really afraid of is this situation spreading to other potential powder keg areas......Cleveland, Chicago, Atlanta, Birmingham, DC, New York, Hartford, Indianapolis, Louisville, Los Angeles, New Orleans, Dallas - all come to mind. There are many angry disenfranchised people out there Bae and I have a feeling we as a nation may be entering a period where a). We are going to start paying a price for it more than can be stifled by government programs, and b). this situation is just not going to be swept under America's carpet any more. I'm of the opinion that long term, this may be a good thing. YMMV.....I understand that people's opinions on this topic are going to be shaped by social class first and life experiences second. I also believe there are no easy answers to this issue but thankfully, I really don't believe it can be stifled any longer. Rob

[creaker]

As someone that lives in a city that routinely has riots over our sports teams (with burning buses and all that, win or lose doesn't seem to matter, just making it to the final game of whatever sport it is) it occurs to me that we've never had a heart wrenching thread regarding what to do about the mostly white thugs that cause those riots. Can we mix that in here or should I start a new thread about it?

Actually there were stories that one of things that initially escalated the riots was people coming out of the bars after the game and taunting and throwing things at the protesters.

[Tammy]

I read something this morning about rioting and destruction of property being reframed when it's done by people we like. We call it the Boston tea party.

[Suzanne]

As someone that lives in a city that routinely has riots over our sports teams (with burning buses and all that, win or lose doesn't seem to matter, just making it to the final game of whatever sport it is) it occurs to me that we've never had a heart wrenching thread regarding what to do about the mostly white thugs that cause those riots. Can we mix that in here or should I start a new thread about it?

I'm with you. A riot is a riot, a thug is a thug, destruction is destruction. Why are the Baltimore protestors, who are protesting police killings of unarmed Black men, evil while white rioters who carry out exactly the same actions because their team won or lost are described as celebrants? Just to make it crystal clear: I am very much against violence and destruction. I'm also against flat-out hypocrisy and double standards. And I consider the violence and rioting over a game - a GAME - immeasurably worse than riots over violated civil rights.

http://mic.com/articles/116680/11-st...like-baltimore