Prayapolooza in Houston

[Zigzagman]

@Flowerseverywhere - the initial tone taken by the OP was disdainful, oozed contempt for and frankly, made fun of Chrisitans uniting to pray. Granted, it was toned down but that's what all this fuss is about (on my part). The very title of the thread "Prayerpalooza" is making fun of prayer. Hate Speech? Maybe not ...but what if the tables were turned and someone posted something ugly about say Islam, example, calling Arabs "Ragheads" or saying "they face the East and beat their heads on the ground" that's offensive, no? I think so. Having a whole thread dedicated to bashing Rick Perry is one thing. Having a thread titled "Prayerpalooza" is not funny.

Since I am responsible for the OP I feel obligated to reply (out of remorse and uninvited). Where did you hear those "Raghead" slurs? beat their heads on the ground? Is that kinda like the up and down at your local Catholic Church?

My intent was indeed to make fun of people so naive that they would gather at a football stadium via the coaxing of our beloved Gov. Rick Perry to "pray" for our nation. It should be made fun of. Why not? You said in a earlier post that you agreed that Perry's motives were not anything other political pandering to the religious right.

Reliant Stadium is big enough to hold an indoor deer hunt. Rick is planning on filling it with people to holler at Jesus and to adore Rick Perry. I’m not saying his ego is big, but you could use it to jump-start a nuclear submarine.First off, let me explain that this is a pray and don’t eat all day function. That’s just damn unTexan. In Texas, you can’t have any manner of people gettin’ together without food being involved. Even Juanita knows that every child in Texas learns to eat fried chicken on a blanket on the church grounds. And, most Baptist churches in Texas have a bigger reception hall than sanctuary. Covered dishes are a sacrament in Texas.

So, in order to fill up Reliant Stadium, Rick Perry has had to associate with some odd groups. Like, for odd example, The American Family Association, which is listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

AFA insists that the “seculars” pick on them because they are Christians. There is hardly nothing creepier than whiny extremist Christians. Ho Boy, you’d think we were feeding them to the lions daily. They think gay people are gay just to piss them off, and women only want equal pay for equal work because it’s anti-Christian.
So, AFA insists they are normal and all the rest of us are crazy. Not even to mention that hell thing. Rick Perry says that all people of all faiths are invited to his Six Flags Over Jesus event, but maybe not.

But Wildmon, AFA’s president, stressed the Christian nature of the event and said people of other religions were “free to have their own events.” He insisted his group did not hate anyone, but he said that people who do not embrace Christianity were headed for eternal damnation.
“It’s not just Jews or Muslims,” Wildmon said. “It’s anybody that rejects the free gift of salvation through Christ. The Bible teaches there’s heaven and hell. Those who believe go to heaven. Those who don’t go to hell.”

Don’t you think he seems a tad too gleeful about all this going to hell stuff?
But, Rick Perry is running for President so his giveadamner is broken. He’s willing to cahoot with anybody who can get warm bodies to Reliant Stadium.

One other thing: Rick says this event will not be political. The event coordinator is Wayne Hamilton.

Wayne Hamilton is the founding partner of San Jacinto Public Affairs. Hamilton was senior aide to Congressman Joe Barton as well as serving three State Chairmen. He served as Governor Rick Perry’s Executive Director of the 2003 and 2007 Texas Inaugural Committees and currently working with events and consulting for the Governor in Austin, Texas.

Yeah, sure. Not political. Not at all. Nope. Not. political.

- comments from Juanita Jean's Beauty Shop

Peace

[peggy]

You'll have to explain that a little further before I can comment.


I think you're confusing the concept of religion with specific religions. I would agree that no specific religion should be sanctioned by the government, although I also believe that no followers of an established religion should be forbidden from having a voice in or champions within a government.
And by the way, if you haven't heard, San Francisco would like to mandate that no boys be circumcised.



I'm not skipping over that point, you're just not recognizing it when you see it. Everyone expects their leaders to be guided by shared moral values, even the religious. You may disagree with the source of their moral viewpoints but that doesn't invalidate their right to express them or for an elected official to represent them.
As a totally secular individual, I completely agree that you don't need religion in order to have moral values, but I don't buy the argument that secular morals are superior to the religious ones. It takes a real ideologue to believe that.


I agree with everything preceding the last line and only quibble with it because you're insisting that you have representation which you would deny to others. Again, I'm not enough of an ideologue to insist upon such a thing.


I love talking ideology, but you can't mix strawman arguments with it and expect to get anywhere.

Alan, Alan,Alan...here you go again. You keep twisting my words to demonize me.
This is not a theocracy. THIS IS NOT A THEOCRACY! THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT A THEOCRACY! Sorry to shout, but why are you insisting our elected leaders be allowed to govern/advocate for/ make laws to reflect their particular religion? Any religion?
Show me where I said our leaders couldn't practice their religion. Show me where I said secular values were superior to religious values. Actually, what i said was, WE SHARE THE SAME VALUES. As in, our values are the same, same moral values, values the same....get it! Wow! You are really invested into this whole republican meme.
How is it I have representation you don't? Do you mean representation as in, leaders who REALIZE THIS ISN'T A THEOCRACY? Who don't try to pray their way out of very real and very serious issues?
You haven't answered my question. How exactly do you want religion to figure into our public lives/public leaders? If you were truly secular then you would be offended by all this religion as politics/politics as religion crap. When you call it the 'values vote' then you need to be prepared to know that vote reflects your values. Again, defunding medicare for the elderly while giving a huge tax break to the wealthy reflects what value? Eliminating head start and WIC while giving another gift to the big oil companies reflects which value?
Are these really values, or political ideology?

If you don't really know the difference between political ideology and moral values, well, then, there really isn't any thing else to discuss. And the republican strategist have done their job. I'm sure they're proud!

[kib]

I think the biggest problem with this whole thing is that Perry has invited other governors. If Perry and his followers wished to hold a prayer rally it would be one thing, but this basically pits politics against religion on a broad secular scale. Are you with us or are you against us, American Government??? As a good - strike, as a politically savvy governor, how could anyone actually stand up and say, "this priapalooza is a load of hooey, I'm not participating." He'd be blamed by the faithful for everything from plague to drought. I have a feeling all this is going to be bringing forth in Texas is a lot of claims of hypoglycemia in high places.

[flowerseverywhere]

@Flowerseverywhere - the initial tone taken by the OP was disdainful, oozed contempt for and frankly, made fun of Chrisitans uniting to pray. Granted, it was toned down but that's what all this fuss is about (on my part). The very title of the thread "Prayerpalooza" is making fun of prayer. Hate Speech? Maybe not ...but what if the tables were turned and someone posted something ugly about say Islam, example, calling Arabs "Ragheads" or saying "they face the East and beat their heads on the ground" that's offensive, no? I think so. Having a whole thread dedicated to bashing Rick Perry is one thing. Having a thread titled "Prayerpalooza" is not funny.

thank you for your explanation. I thought most of the comments were respectful enough not to be offensive, and I think some of my interpretations were different than yours because I am coming from a different perspective. I have no problems if anyone wants to pray or fast, set up tents, go to stadiums, put up billboards etc. I just wish it was separate from the government and I get the feeling from reading about this event it is all a publicity stunt. I also wish they didn't involve organizations like that american family association that is very clear in their agenda of hate.

I have studied a lot about religion and religious beliefs, and attended a lot of churches. I went to a Sikh temple, Jewish synagogue, Roman Catholic Church, several Protestant churches from strict to liberal in my journey. As I met people of different faiths I would ask to attend a service with them and every single one was willing and proud to display their faith. I really wanted to understand and most people are more than willing to explain and share their beliefs to anyone who will listen with an open mind. In all of my reading and my witness of faith practice I never saw any mention of using faith to further your own agenda or spread a message of hate or discrimination. When I read the bible the biggest impression I was left with was the Jesus was accepting and loving of societies outcasts, the prostitutes, beggars, poor and disabled and used his love and example to bring them into the fold. What a wonderful ministry, full of love and joy. Unfortunately I don't think Rick Perry's event has even a sprinkling of the love and goodness of what I can figure out is true Christianity. You are lucky indeed if you have been able to embrace your God and use your faith to make the world a better place.

[Gregg]

thank you for your explanation. I thought most of the comments were respectful enough not to be offensive, and I think some of my interpretations were different than yours because I am coming from a different perspective. I have no problems if anyone wants to pray or fast, set up tents, go to stadiums, put up billboards etc. I just wish it was separate from the government and I get the feeling from reading about this event it is all a publicity stunt. I also wish they didn't involve organizations like that american family association that is very clear in their agenda of hate.

I have studied a lot about religion and religious beliefs, and attended a lot of churches. I went to a Sikh temple, Jewish synagogue, Roman Catholic Church, several Protestant churches from strict to liberal in my journey. As I met people of different faiths I would ask to attend a service with them and every single one was willing and proud to display their faith. I really wanted to understand and most people are more than willing to explain and share their beliefs to anyone who will listen with an open mind. In all of my reading and my witness of faith practice I never saw any mention of using faith to further your own agenda or spread a message of hate or discrimination. When I read the bible the biggest impression I was left with was the Jesus was accepting and loving of societies outcasts, the prostitutes, beggars, poor and disabled and used his love and example to bring them into the fold. What a wonderful ministry, full of love and joy. Unfortunately I don't think Rick Perry's event has even a sprinkling of the love and goodness of what I can figure out is true Christianity. You are lucky indeed if you have been able to embrace your God and use your faith to make the world a better place.

Very, VERY well said. Thank you flowerseverywhere.

[Catwoman]

I was about to reply also, nicely put Flowers. You described the Jesus I know...

[Gregg]

@Flowerseverywhere - the initial tone taken by the OP was disdainful, oozed contempt for and frankly, made fun of Chrisitans uniting to pray. Granted, it was toned down but that's what all this fuss is about (on my part). The very title of the thread "Prayerpalooza" is making fun of prayer. Hate Speech? Maybe not ...but what if the tables were turned and someone posted something ugly about say Islam, example, calling Arabs "Ragheads" or saying "they face the East and beat their heads on the ground" that's offensive, no? I think so. Having a whole thread dedicated to bashing Rick Perry is one thing. Having a thread titled "Prayerpalooza" is not funny.

I can't make the leap from a thread title that mocks an event (that is by all indication a political stage) to saying the title mocks prayer in general simply because the word is used. As a mod I appreciate Zig knocking it down a notch in the name of civility, but as a participant I really didn't think that was necessary. Everything I read was directed toward this event and the political figure leading it, not at Christians in general or the practice of praying. There were certainly no racial slurs.

Rick Perry is apparently gearing up a presidential campaign. If he wants to be the leader of a country that includes a whole lot of people that are NOT devout Christians he is going to get, and deserves, a VERY high level of scrutiny for his actions. The fact that he chose now to stage this event speaks volumes to me. Truth be told the fact that he has anything at all to do with it speaks volumes. I won't question Gov. Perry's faith because I don't know the man, but even if he is a true believer this event wreaks of political grandstanding. Old Governor Perry's Tonic may not come in a bottle, but you can bet he is trying to sell something.

[Alan]

Alan, Alan,Alan...here you go again. You keep twisting my words to demonize me.

Now now Peggy, I'm not trying to demonize you. Just trying to nudge you out of your box a little.

You keep bringing up, and exaggerating, specific differences between two parties and then imply that it has something to do with religion. You also imply that a person's religious beliefs should have no influence on the manner in which they represent their constituencies.

You're right that this is not a theocracy, and I'm not advocating that, but religion is a major influence in the lives of a very large part of our population and there is no requirement that our politicians not allow it to influence their words, deeds or actions.

You haven't answered my question. How exactly do you want religion to figure into our public lives/public leaders? If you were truly secular then you would be offended by all this religion as politics/politics as religion crap.

In answer, I would prefer that everyone not be required to hide their religious views in order to be accepted. I am secular and secure enough in my beliefs not to be offended or intimidated by others beliefs. Thanks for asking.

[LDAHL]

I think that most progressives (those that think practices ought to be adjusted as society evolves) think that the establishment clause was intended to ensure that all citizens should have freedom of conscience. We all should be able to choose our own religious path or none without interference from the government. The state should not tell people what to believe, how to believe, or how to practice their beliefs. Also government should be prevented from enforcing anyone’s religious rules on the public.

Peace

That would explain your shrieking "stop it" in bold caps at the start of this thread. Your concern over free religious expression.

[The Storyteller]

Having a thread titled "Prayerpalooza" is not funny.

I find it hilarious. The whole thing is a freaking joke and deserves to be made fun of.

What a cynical ass this guy is. I hope he goes through with it and only a couple hundred people show up, half of them media. Any idea how it would look for a few hundred people to show up in a massive football stadium?

The only thing I resent about the whole thread is ZagMan saying the Texans aren't good at what they do and comparing them to Rick P. That is downright blasphemous. They are after all the best team in Texas.