Quote Originally Posted by peggy View Post
I said their IDEOLOGY was nasty.
You'll have to explain that a little further before I can comment.

No, religion should NOT play a part in how this country is run. I ask you, which religion should we pick to play this part? If there is prayer in school, whose prayer do we say? Whose prayer do we compel all the little children to repeat? Whose religion do we follow in making our laws? Do we make it a law that women dress a certain way? Do we eliminate battlefield medical care because some religions don't believe in blood transfusions? Perhaps we mandate all little boys get circumcised.
I think you're confusing the concept of religion with specific religions. I would agree that no specific religion should be sanctioned by the government, although I also believe that no followers of an established religion should be forbidden from having a voice in or champions within a government.
And by the way, if you haven't heard, San Francisco would like to mandate that no boys be circumcised.

I'll say it again because you seem to keep skipping over this point, I do expect our leaders to be guided by our shared moral values, which have absolutely nothing to do with religion. Pick a successful society, any society, and you will find they have shared moral values. Even the totally secular ones. I realize this is hard for some to wrap their minds around, but it's the truth. You don't have to have religion to have moral values.
I'm not skipping over that point, you're just not recognizing it when you see it. Everyone expects their leaders to be guided by shared moral values, even the religious. You may disagree with the source of their moral viewpoints but that doesn't invalidate their right to express them or for an elected official to represent them.
As a totally secular individual, I completely agree that you don't need religion in order to have moral values, but I don't buy the argument that secular morals are superior to the religious ones. It takes a real ideologue to believe that.

My values are what guide me each day in how i live my life and treat people, especially those who are less fortunate than i am.
I am good, I am moral, and I'm actually a pretty nice person.
And I think god is a fairy tale.
I don't want my elected leaders governing by their particular religious belief any more than I want them passing laws regarding the tooth fairy.
I agree with everything preceding the last line and only quibble with it because you're insisting that you have representation which you would deny to others. Again, I'm not enough of an ideologue to insist upon such a thing.
Yes, I do expect everyone to vote their conscience, but voting for an ideology is not voting for values, unless your values are reflected in that particular ideology. So, when you vote to defund medicare while giving yet another tax break to the very wealthy, what value is that connecting?
I love talking ideology, but you can't mix strawman arguments with it and expect to get anywhere.