Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
You'll have to explain that a little further before I can comment.


I think you're confusing the concept of religion with specific religions. I would agree that no specific religion should be sanctioned by the government, although I also believe that no followers of an established religion should be forbidden from having a voice in or champions within a government.
And by the way, if you haven't heard, San Francisco would like to mandate that no boys be circumcised.



I'm not skipping over that point, you're just not recognizing it when you see it. Everyone expects their leaders to be guided by shared moral values, even the religious. You may disagree with the source of their moral viewpoints but that doesn't invalidate their right to express them or for an elected official to represent them.
As a totally secular individual, I completely agree that you don't need religion in order to have moral values, but I don't buy the argument that secular morals are superior to the religious ones. It takes a real ideologue to believe that.


I agree with everything preceding the last line and only quibble with it because you're insisting that you have representation which you would deny to others. Again, I'm not enough of an ideologue to insist upon such a thing.


I love talking ideology, but you can't mix strawman arguments with it and expect to get anywhere.
Alan, Alan,Alan...here you go again. You keep twisting my words to demonize me.
This is not a theocracy. THIS IS NOT A THEOCRACY! THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT A THEOCRACY! Sorry to shout, but why are you insisting our elected leaders be allowed to govern/advocate for/ make laws to reflect their particular religion? Any religion?
Show me where I said our leaders couldn't practice their religion. Show me where I said secular values were superior to religious values. Actually, what i said was, WE SHARE THE SAME VALUES. As in, our values are the same, same moral values, values the same....get it! Wow! You are really invested into this whole republican meme.
How is it I have representation you don't? Do you mean representation as in, leaders who REALIZE THIS ISN'T A THEOCRACY? Who don't try to pray their way out of very real and very serious issues?
You haven't answered my question. How exactly do you want religion to figure into our public lives/public leaders? If you were truly secular then you would be offended by all this religion as politics/politics as religion crap. When you call it the 'values vote' then you need to be prepared to know that vote reflects your values. Again, defunding medicare for the elderly while giving a huge tax break to the wealthy reflects what value? Eliminating head start and WIC while giving another gift to the big oil companies reflects which value?
Are these really values, or political ideology?

If you don't really know the difference between political ideology and moral values, well, then, there really isn't any thing else to discuss. And the republican strategist have done their job. I'm sure they're proud!