Why NOT to vote Republican

[jp1]

I haven't screamed, or even whispered, about the FDA being too quick, just pointing out that standard procedure was not followed. You must have intentionally missed the earlier post where I said I was in favor of fast tracking when warranted, and I believe in this case it was. The only thing predictable is your misrepresentation. Try again.

And you must have missed my post where I asked what standard procedure wasn’t followed which you didn’t answer.

[Alan]

Just because they worked faster doesn’t mean they ignored their procedures. Can you point to something that says they did?

The last phase of the approval process involve prolonged studies to show that the benefits of a vaccine are greater than it's risk, along with a prolonged review of the manufacturing process to ensure proper quality controls are in place and enforced. Those actions took place after the vaccines were authorized for emergency use and before full approval was granted at a later time.

While it's not the first time that's been done, it's not standard procedure.

And you must have missed my post where I asked what standard procedure wasn’t followed which you didn’t answer.

Really? I thought I did.

[jp1]

Really? I thought I did.

And I thought I addressed that. Perhaps you can point to an independent source that provides details beyond your preferred narrative about that.

[Teacher Terry]

That’s wonderful news Flowers!!

[catherine]

And I thought I addressed that. Perhaps you can point to an independent source that provides details beyond your preferred narrative about that.

jp, Alan is right. There are very rigid protocols for approvals of new drugs. It takes years, typically, mainly because of the four phases of clinical trials they have to go through.
"On average, it takes at least ten years for a new medicine to complete the journey from initial discovery to the marketplace, with clinical trials alone taking six to seven years on average."
http://phrma-docs.phrma.org/sites/de...ure_022307.pdf

https://www.drugwatch.com/fda/approval-process/

Occasionally a drug that is deemed to be necessary given a specific condition and benefits derived in the trials can be be "fast tracked" But the only thing "fast tracked" in that situation is the bureaucracy of moving through the FDA--it's not a clinical shortcut.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_track_(FDA)

What was different in the case of COVID is that they collapsed some of the normal steps of development. Here's an article that explains exactly what those shortcuts were. The main point about how they were able to move through the process for the COVID vaccines is because it's a vaccine. Vaccine technology and surveillance has gone on for a long time--you could say since the late 18th century. It's not like creating a whole new mechanism of action. The companies that were able to come up with the vaccines so quickly are well established vaccine manufacturers.

So some might be fearful that getting a small dose of COVID will cause terrible effects, but in all, it's a pretty safe bet that a vaccine against COVID is not much different than a vaccine against polio, smallpox, or measles.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...elopment-speed

[jp1]

catherine, thank you for that. The next to the last paragraph from your article sums up what I was trying to say:

Decades of previous work combined with a fast-moving virus, a public willingness to help and elimination of wait times drove the rapid development of COVID-19 vaccines. No safety steps were skipped, says Stanley Plotkin, emeritus professor of pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania, who is perhaps best known for his work developing the rubella vaccine.

Alan's and my disagreement stems from whether all the delays that are built into the process in normal time but were avoided for the covid vaccine development constitute deviating from standard procedure. I don't think they do since the elimination of the delays didn't alter any of the active actions that would have taken place in developing and getting approval for these vaccines. Alan apparently has a different opinion on that.

I was also referencing how trump, months before the election was strongly pushing to have the vaccine rushed through the process and after the election was livid, blaming the "deep medical state" for it not getting released prior to the election.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...cine-politics/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...fizer-vaccine/

[gimmethesimplelife]

catherine, thank you for that. The next to the last paragraph from your article sums up what I was trying to say:

Decades of previous work combined with a fast-moving virus, a public willingness to help and elimination of wait times drove the rapid development of COVID-19 vaccines. No safety steps were skipped, says Stanley Plotkin, emeritus professor of pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania, who is perhaps best known for his work developing the rubella vaccine.

Alan's and my disagreement stems from whether all the delays that are built into the process in normal time but were avoided for the covid vaccine development constitute deviating from standard procedure. I don't think they do since the elimination of the delays didn't alter any of the active actions that would have taken place in developing and getting approval for these vaccines. Alan apparently has a different opinion on that.

I was also referencing how trump, months before the election was strongly pushing to have the vaccine rushed through the process and after the election was livid, blaming the "deep medical state" for it not getting released prior to the election.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...cine-politics/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...fizer-vaccine/

DJT actually said that - "the deep medical state"? A new low for him, though I'm not surprised. I just hope he doesn't run in 2024 - America can't afford another Trump run if it doesn't want to split apart. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

And a simple reason for yours truly not to vote Republican - to do so would be inappropriate based on my life experience thus far. Rob

[flowerseverywhere]

Thank you for the good wishes. DH currently has no evidence of disease and is healing nicely. We still have a long hill to climb to keep him so but I have confidence that science and medicine will conquer this.

perhaps this is the biggest reason I will never ever vote for a Republican again. The trump disrespect for nurses, doctors and scientists was encouraged. Climate change causing more wildfires? Rake the forests. COVID is a hoax? Patients insisting on unproven drugs be given them and threatening ER staffs. These are my documents? No, they belong in the archives as the law says. Not working for affordable accessible healthcare. Advocating guns that can mow down a classroom of kids. But what about those tax cuts for the wealthy?

one of my neighbors who still flies a trump Rambo flag calls the educated useful idiots. Well medical personnel certainly come in handy when you need them. And lawyers. I know very few people who have had any kind of lawsuit in their lives. The constant lawsuits and threats of lawsuits by Trump are ridiculous. Lead a lawful life and you have far more peace and serenity.

and as for climate change, Miami already has raised streets, Key Biscayne national park has boardwalks that are frequently under water and the keys are fighting which streets to raise although it has no money to do so. The price of free dumb.

[JaneV2.0]

"one of my neighbors who still flies a trump Rambo flag calls the educated useful idiots."

Ironically, "Useful idiot" is defined as "... used during the Cold War to describe non-communists regarded as susceptible to communist propaganda and manipulation, " (Wikipedia) and it perfectly describes Trump's early years before he became a Russian asset--as is meticulously outlined in the rarely read and often-ignored Mueller Report.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...ty-report.html