The Trayvon Martin incident

[bae]

So many factions with agendas to sell you have seized onto the incident that at this point all you can do is watch the circus parade by and count the clowns.

Fascinating to see what peoples' reactions reveal though.

[loosechickens]

"Loosechickens, should they try Zimmerman before they convict him, or is it too late?" (Alan)

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I am afraid that because the Sanford police simply accepted his story, did not test him for drugs or alcohol, did not document and photograph any injuries he had, did not take the gun for evidence at that time, and allowed him to simply leave, wearing the clothing he had on at the time, losing what might have been critical forensic evidence, and without securing the scene, assessing him medically, having him examined at a hospital right then so any injuries he might have had be known, and it known that they were not inflicted afterward, the chances are that George Zimmerman will not even BE tried, much less convicted, so we won't really know what really happened.

The state and Federal folks will do what they can to reconstruct, etc., but so much possible evidence was destroyed, lost or contaminated, that it's unlikely that he won't walk whether guilty or not. If there is somewhere to point the real finger of blame here, it would certainly be at the Sanford Police Department for extremely sloppy policework. Which will probably prevent George Zimmerman from really being able to clear his name if he is innocent, or to be tried and convicted if he isn't.

In the end, George Zimmerman may have as much animosity against the police who did not do what should have been done so that his name could be cleared, as Trayvon Martin's family has because they feel his death was not sufficiently examined. It's a lose/lose all the way around.

I think that all of us come into this kind of an inkblot situation with our own biases. those of us who have seen minorities repeatedly get less than fair justice, often feel threatened ourselves with people who probably shouldn't be armed, packing things like 9mm guns while going to the store, will tend to feel more sympathy for the dead person, who has no more chances for any kind of a do over.

And for those of us who are committed to the idea of carrying weapons anywhere we go, defend to the death the right to pack heat, whether emotionally, tempermentally or otherwise showing the ability to have the judgement not to use it unwisely, as well as those with some racial biases and others will see a put upon upstanding citizen, just trying to protect his neighborhood, even if unasked, and being pilloried by the leftists and the gun control people for being a patriotic citizen.

And, of course, every shade of grey in between.

Which is why, as bae says, it's mostly watching the parade, knowing the players, knowing the preconceived ideas we each come to the party with, and the beat goes on......which is why I think I'm more or less finished even revisiting this thread. Honestly, it is depressing in the extreme.

[redfox]

My plan is to wait on facts, not media speculation and social media yammering.

I think we have processes for that. If I recall, they often involve trials, and juries.

+ 1

Which would, of course, first involve an arrest & charges. I had no prob in my hoodie as I traveled around Oakland & to Seattle today...

[CathyA]

Seems to me that Zimmerman has been tried and convicted already........without the facts. Isn't it also unfair to condemn him without the facts, just as it would be to condemn Martin without the facts? And the picture used for Martin is one at a younger age. I read somewhere (don't know if its true), that he's also over 190# and is 6'2" now. There is just as much "spin" on both sides. I fear there will be a huge forward momentum that can't be stopped, in spite of the facts, when they emerge.

[ctg492]

I told my sons never to get ****y with police, keep hands in plain sight if you get pulled over, ask if you can get the insurance papers out of the glove box before reaching for it, look respectable, be respectable......not much different then any family of any race tells their sons I imagine. I always question when I see a "black" family saying they teach their sons that, shouldn't every race?
I guess I will be more careful wearing my "My dog walks me" Hoodie. Maybe the lady on the trail I walk should not wear her Yellow "Don't tread on Me" Hoodie. We both get opinions of each other by those hoodies. Funny how clothes make the person, then again that is a saying for a reason I suppose.

sorry I did not know that was a bad word

[mtnlaurel]

I told my sons never to get ****y with police, keep hands in plain sight if you get pulled over, ask if you can get the insurance papers out of the glove box before reaching for it, look respectable, be respectable......not much different then any family of any race tells their sons I imagine. I always question when I see a "black" family saying they teach their sons that, shouldn't every race?
I guess I will be more careful wearing my "My dog walks me" Hoodie. Maybe the lady on the trail I walk should not wear her Yellow "Don't tread on Me" Hoodie. We both get opinions of each other by those hoodies. Funny how clothes make the person, then again that is a saying for a reason I suppose.

sorry I did not know that was a bad word

Since I initially brought up the Jonathan Capehart interview, I am going to post it here.
Capehart definitely emphasises that the approach police with respect part is for all races.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...RtTS_blog.html

Maybe, if Mr. Zimmerman had waited for the police to come, if there had been enough reason to merit the police to come, then none of this would have happened and Treyvon would have had the opportunity to respond respectfully to lawfully appointed authorities (as pathetic as the Sanford p.d. abilities seem to prove).
Right now it seems like an individual citizen carrying a deadly weapon was following a possibly stoned young person (and told not to do so by the police) after a munchy run.

I have been a young stoned person on a munchy run before.

(which we don't yet know for a fact if Treyvon was on drugs at the time, I'm going by the article that East River posted that stated Zimmerman "called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs')

It sounds to me that Mr. Zimmerman found exactly what he was looking for that day - trouble.
And as various details of Treyvon's school behavior problems come out -- it sounds like he paid the ultimate price for getting started down the wrong road.

What a sad, terrible event.

I do hope that we will be able to learn what happened that day.

[peggy]

That is just not true. There is solid witness testimony that TM was on GW beating him. There may be legitimate questions as to what got them there, but there is evidence concerning the circumstances of the shooting itself and GZ's story is backed by some witnesses and physical evidence. There may be more to the story, but let the investigation sort it out.

Well, considering the boy was being stalked, and being young and probably not having the best judgement, why is everyone assuming it was only Zimmerman who was 'standing his ground'? Zimmerman was stalking a young man who, I think it has been proven at least to this point, was only going to the store to get some candy and on his way home. He was being stalked by a stranger, which is enough to scare anyone. And that stranger, who was stalking and menacing, had a gun. If the young man was on top of him, don't you think it was to get a gun away from a total stranger who was threatening him? I wouldn't try to grab a gun from someone, but I can think of plenty of young men, lacking experience and getting angry at someone who threatened him, who would. Do you think that just maybe it was the young man who was 'standing his ground'?

[Yossarian]

Well, considering the boy was being stalked, and being young and probably not having the best judgement, why is everyone assuming it was only Zimmerman who was 'standing his ground'?

I don't know who everyone is. From my POV I just hate to see another Richard Jewel, Duke Lacrosse, Tawanna Brawley media trial so pointed out the agenda driven spin LC was shilling has major flaws. Let's wait until all the facts are known.

And your use of stalked is telling. We know GZ followed TM. Sometimes looking out for our for neighbors is good, in this case it seems unwise, creepy and potentially immoral. But it was unlikely illegal and I don't think it would justify being attacked

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

All we know for sure is at least one verision of events doesn't look good for TM and and why you are now hearing about TM being suspended for drugs and vandalism, being caught with potentially stolen goods, and sporting his gold teeth and attacking a bus driver. To some people it adds credence to GZ's version, which is probably wrong too and why this shouldn't be a media trial.

[bae]

Let's wait until all the facts are known.

Apparently though quite a few folks on the forum *already* know the facts. They must have been eyewitnesses, and also participated in the police questioning. I look forward to reading about their testimony, if there is enough evidence to move ahead to charge and try Zimmerman.

I wonder where you could even find a jury in America for the trial, given how much coverage of "the facts" there has been so far?

[mtnlaurel]

Apparently though quite a few folks on the forum *already* know the facts. They must have been eyewitnesses, and also participated in the police questioning. I look forward to reading about their testimony, if there is enough evidence to move ahead to charge and try Zimmerman.

I wonder where you could even find a jury in America for the trial, given how much coverage of "the facts" there has been so far?

I think it's fair for us to air our opinions and kick things around as things unfold.

This forum is a virtual front porch.