View Full Version : Why NOT to vote Republican
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frugal-one
5-20-22, 2:23pm
I don't understand how anyone can even think of voting Republican! They just vetoed getting formula from other countries but now are complaining Biden is not doing enough. WTH....
The majority of the population (something like 71%) is in favor of Roe v Wade yet Republicans are trying to make it difficult (if not impossible) for abortions. WTH The Republicans are not abiding to the WISHES OF THE PEOPLE! Vote them out, I say!
These are just the few recent happenings. UNBELIEVABLE that people even consider a Republican when they don't do what the people want or try to help those in need. I truly don't understand....
I no longer see much difference between the two parties and thus we remain stymied in all endeavors.
frugal-one
5-20-22, 2:33pm
I no longer see much difference between the two parties and thus we remain stymied in all endeavors.
Seriously?
Yes, they have very ideological differences but they're all just politicians.
ApatheticNoMore
5-20-22, 3:09pm
Most who vote for Republicans are Republican partisans, they petty much always vote Republican. True the Dems performance has not been anything to impress anyone. But at least as much and maybe far more depends on, for the Senate, which Senators are up for vote and if the state is competitive (it's not all of them that are up for vote, and even if a far larger percent of voters vote Dem it doesn't mean Reps don't take congress because of how skewed the population distribution is). Also how successful attempts at voter suppression are.
You vote for Dems and you get shit holes like Chicago. Last Republican mayor was in the 50s, I think.
I don't understand how anyone can even think of voting Republican! They just vetoed getting formula from other countries but now are complaining Biden is not doing enough. WTH....
I believe there were two different bills passed in the House dealing with this issue, and as I understand it that Republican resistance had to do with the legislation doing nothing to correct the issues causing the problem in this country. In other words it didn't do enough to solve the problem.
You seem to be implying that Republicans stopped the legislation from passing, that's not true.
The majority of the population (something like 71%) is in favor of Roe v Wade yet Republicans are trying to make it difficult (if not impossible) for abortions. WTH The Republicans are not abiding to the WISHES OF THE PEOPLE! Vote them out, I say!
Do you think that 71% of the population is in favor of unrestricted abortion up till birth or do you think that 71% of the population believes that abortion should be available up to a certain point, perhaps only in the first trimester?
It seems to me that the political debate seems to be for all or nothing on the issue which I think has very little support on either side.
frugal-one
5-20-22, 3:15pm
Most who vote for Republicans are Republican partisans, they petty much always vote Republican. True the Dems performance has not been anything to impress anyone. But at least as much and maybe far more depends on, for the Senate, which Senators are up for vote and if the state is competitive (it's not all of them that are up for vote, and even if a far larger percent of voters vote Dem it doesn't mean Reps don't take congress because of how skewed the population distribution is). Also how successful attempts at voter suppression are.
There’s another reason to NOT vote for Republicans.
frugal-one
5-20-22, 3:20pm
You vote for Dems and you get shit holes like Chicago. Last Republican mayor was in the 50s, I think.
Be careful what you wish for…. there were shit hole Republicans too
https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/chicago/most-corrupt-illinois-politicians-of-all-time
frugal-one
5-20-22, 3:26pm
[QUOTE=Alan;408108]I believe there were two different bills passed in the House dealing with this issue, and as I understand it that Republican resistance had to do with the legislation doing nothing to correct the issues causing the problem in this country. In other words it didn't do enough to solve the problem.
You seem to be implying that Republicans stopped the legislation from passing, that's not true.
They did yesterday. They vetoed getting help from other countries.
Do you think that 71% of the population is in favor of unrestricted abortion up till birth or do you think that 71% of the population believes that abortion should be available up to a certain point, perhaps only in the first trimester?
It seems to me that the political debate seems to be for all or nothing on the issue which I think has very little support on either side.
Abortion IMO should be up to the individual. I believe in separating church from state. This issue should not be regulated in any case IMO. Interestingly, Republicans want few regulations. I don’t get why this is any different.
They did yesterday. They vetoed getting help from other countries.
I think you're mistaken.
Assuming Roe vs. Wade is formally overturned, I understand it would become a state by state issue. Without looking up the specific demographics, I could suppose the red states get their voter desires and the blue states get theirs? It does seem like a bit of a conundrum regardless.
iris lilies
5-20-22, 3:44pm
[QUOTE=Alan;408108]I believe there were two different bills passed in the House dealing with this issue, and as I understand it that Republican resistance had to do with the legislation doing nothing to correct the issues causing the problem in this country. In other words it didn't do enough to solve the problem.
You seem to be implying that Republicans stopped the legislation from passing, that's not true.
They did yesterday. They vetoed getting help from other countries.
Do you think that 71% of the population is in favor of unrestricted abortion up till birth or do you think that 71% of the population believes that abortion should be available up to a certain point, perhaps only in the first trimester?
It seems to me that the political debate seems to be for all or nothing on the issue which I think has very little support on either side.
Abortion IMO should be up to the individual. I believe in separating church from state. This issue should not be regulated in any case IMO. Interestingly, Republicans want few regulations. I don’t get why this is any different.
I’m not surprised that you didn’t answer Alan’s question.
frugal-one
5-20-22, 5:13pm
[/B]I think you're mistaken.
I am. 9 Republicans voted against. I misread. Still surprises me that anyone would vote against such a thing!
I am. 9 Republicans voted against. I misread. Still surprises me that anyone would vote against such a thing!
That sort of thing usually happens with bills enjoying overwhelming bipartisan support when someone doesn't want to settle for something that could be done better with a few changes to the legislation. It surprises me that anyone would hold that against them.
Seems to me like a poor reason to hate Republicans, assuming that a reason is needed.
frugal-one
5-20-22, 7:00pm
That sort of thing usually happens with bills enjoying overwhelming bipartisan support when someone doesn't want to settle for something that could be done better with a few changes to the legislation. It surprises me that anyone would hold that against them.
Seems to me like a poor reason to hate Republicans, assuming that a reason is needed.
You have not been reading my posts. Also, 192 Republicans voted against the other regarding formula listed above.
I don't hate Republicans ... just feel like they are not representing the majority of the people and are gerrymandering and trying to make it so they are elected whether they have been legitimately or not. Scary. I used to vote Republican but IMO the party is no longer.
You have not been reading my posts. Also, 192 Republicans voted against the other regarding formula listed above.
I don't hate Republicans ... just feel like they are not representing the majority of the people and are gerrymandering and trying to make it so they are elected whether they have been legitimately or not. Scary. I used to vote Republican but IMO the party is no longer.
Gerrymandering originated in my state and I have seen plenty of it. Elbridge Gerry was a member of the Democratic-Republican Party, which evolved into the Democratic Party. But the original name of his party is fitting, as both Democrats and Republicans have gerrymandered. Things are nowhere near as black and white as you think.
You have not been reading my posts. Sure I have.
Also, 192 Republicans voted against the other regarding formula listed above. Yes, that one was basically just giving the FDA a crap load of money under the guise of them correcting the formula problem. Democrats didn't seem to care that the FDA doesn't produce infant formula and the Republicans did. Damn Republicans!
I don't hate Republicans ... just feel like they are not representing the majority of the people and are gerrymandering and trying to make it so they are elected whether they have been legitimately or not. The latest gerrymandering news has to do with New York state, and not a single Republican was involved. Imagine that!
frugal-one
5-20-22, 8:07pm
I was referring to gerrymandering in WI. It is ridiculous!
FDA and formula article.... No one said the FDA produces formula.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/baby-formula-fda-doing-alleviate-164123860.html
ApatheticNoMore
5-20-22, 8:24pm
Assuming Roe vs. Wade is formally overturned, I understand it would become a state by state issue. Without looking up the specific demographics, I could suppose the red states get their voter desires and the blue states get theirs?
see the part about gerrymandering, many states don't really represent citizen desires anymore above. Also if people want to order abortion pills fine, but I resent that state healthcare resources in blue states will be used for people in other states that cross state lines for an abortion, stretching our resources (not just abortion resources).
I was referring to gerrymandering in WI. It is ridiculous! Don't you just hate it when Republicans in Wisconsin act like Democrats wherever they may enjoy a legislative majority? Again, damn Republicans!
FDA and formula article.... No one said the FDA produces formula.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/baby-formula-fda-doing-alleviate-164123860.htmlYes, this legislation (not the same as the bill you originally mentioned as being 'vetoed' by Republicans) provides funding for the FDA to, among other things, provide additional WIC payments for formula but does nothing to increase the supply of formula. I think that's why Republicans found issue with the legislation. But, it still passed the House and if the Senate and President concur, there'll be plenty of government money to buy a decreasing supply of formula. I'm not sure if it applies to the product coming from Europe after the other bill was approved through bipartisan support in both the House and Senate (I believe it's actually 'veto' proof after passing with such huge majorities), I think WIC requirements are pretty specific.
iris lilies
5-20-22, 9:05pm
Isn’t it” gerrymandering” when Republicans are in charge of re-drawing the voting district boundaries, but “ re-drawing voting districts” when the Dems do it?
Isn’t it” gerrymandering” when Republicans are in charge of re-drawing the voting district boundaries, but “ re-drawing voting districts” when the Dems do it?
So it would seem.
I no longer see much difference between the two parties and thus we remain stymied in all endeavors.
You could probably say that 60 years ago. Now the differences are stunningly obvious, IMO.
frugal-one
5-20-22, 9:59pm
Don't you just hate it when Republicans in Wisconsin act like Democrats wherever they may enjoy a legislative majority? Again, damn Republicans!
Yes, this legislation (not the same as the bill you originally mentioned as being 'vetoed' by Republicans) provides funding for the FDA to, among other things, provide additional WIC payments for formula but does nothing to increase the supply of formula. I think that's why Republicans found issue with the legislation. But, it still passed the House and if the Senate and President concur, there'll be plenty of government money to buy a decreasing supply of formula. I'm not sure if it applies to the product coming from Europe after the other bill was approved through bipartisan support in both the House and Senate (I believe it's actually 'veto' proof after passing with such huge majorities), I think WIC requirements are pretty specific.
Yeah, I agree. Damn Republicans. They are gerrymandering big time. Wish we had the Republican party of old.
ApatheticNoMore
5-21-22, 12:27am
Don't you just hate it when Republicans in Wisconsin act like Democrats wherever they may enjoy a legislative majority?
whenever the enjoy? no, that's not how it works, there is no chance nor will of the voter to it, they have engineered a permanent majority through gerrymandering. But it's just a red state? No, it's not only not historically, but it's not presently, the presidency doesn't always go Republican, nor the governorship, but the legislature is gerrymandered so that even when the majority of people vote for Dems it goes Republican.
It shocked me that over half of formula in the US is paid for by WIC. Don't people support their own kids anymore? I struggled but I did it.
I also wonder is there a black market in it like there is with people reselling food stamps?
It shocked me that over half of formula in the US is paid for by WIC. Don't people support their own kids anymore? I struggled but I did it.
I also wonder is there a black market in it like there is with people reselling food stamps?
It shocked me to learn that republicans weren’t actually prolife but were just pro fetus and then eff everyone once they squirt out of the womb. /snark
You could probably say that 60 years ago. Now the differences are stunningly obvious, IMO.
Anyone who says that today is either a Republican or hasn’t been paying attention. I know the whiny brats will get their panties all in a twist when I point this out but only one party has ever tried to overthrow the government in any of our lifetimes and it ain’t the democrats. Call me old fashioned but to me that’s a big effing deal that renders anyone from that party unacceptable for any elected role higher than dog catcher. I might think differently if the attempt to overthrow the government didn’t include the bitch married to one of the lifetime appointed Supreme Court justices but since it did, I do.
It shocked me to learn that republicans weren’t actually prolife but were just pro fetus and then eff everyone once they squirt out of the womb. /snark
How is society sustainable when you have an aging population collecting Social Security from fewer and fewer taxpayers and more and more of the young also collecting from social programs? Those of us working and not collecting are going to be crushed. It's already starting. No one subsidizes our food and they won't even suspend the gas tax.
If abortion is outlawed this will only intensify because all the babies aborted for economic reasons will be fed with WIC.
Meanwhile we could be creating good paying jobs to lift people out of power but idiots like my (Democratic) mayor are not using infrastructure bill funds. Instead he keeps adding to the city payroll.
gimmethesimplelife
5-21-22, 9:05am
I believe BOTH parties are scary when they go too far, and I do have some issues with the Democratic party believe it or not. But it is a much better fit for me than the Republican party. I just don't believe in normalizing profits over people to the degree Republicans do. I also don't believe in winner takes all but a few crumbs off the table - I'm just too humane for this line of thinking.
It turns out that the majority of US Police are Conservatives and with their many over the top illegal actions, this does not surprise me. Not at all. Rob
I've been watching a lot of Youtube videos of Russian prisoners of war in Ukraine and man in the street interviews of citizens in Russia. The common theme among them, repeated over and over, is "I don't pay attention to politics." Maybe it's because they're all afraid Putin will take offense and put them on his hit list, and they aren't really clueless herd animals, but the phenomenon is chilling to me.
For example, the relatives of prisoners often argue that Russia wouldn't attack civilians even as the prisoners describe seeing the carnage with their own eyes.
If you're interested, search for Volodymyr Zolkin on YouTube. His interviews give insight as to the state of the Russian military.
iris lilies
5-21-22, 10:13am
I've been watching a lot of Youtube videos of Russian prisoners of war in Ukraine and man in the street interviews of citizens in Russia. The common theme among them, repeated over and over, is "I don't pay attention to politics." Maybe it's because they're all afraid Putin will take offense and put them on his hit list, and they aren't really clueless herd animals, but the phenomenon is chilling to me.
For example, the relatives of prisoners often argue that Russia wouldn't attack civilians even as the prisoners describe seeing the carnage with their own eyes.
If you're interested, search for Volodymyr Zolkin on YouTube. His interviews give insight as to the state of the Russian military.
I believe you and do not need to witness that horrific situation for myself. It’s all so completely shitty.
gimmethesimplelife
5-21-22, 10:28am
I believe you and do not need to witness that horrific situation for myself. It’s all so completely shitty.Agreed 100 percent, IL. Rob
I think the Ukrainian situation demonstrates the limits of intimidation. At some point, the intimidator pushes things so far that compliance with his wishes simply becomes too painful or threatening.
After years of appeasement and hollowing out their military under Shroeder and Merkel, the Germans are waking up to their situation and taking action.
After years of studied neutrality, Finland and Sweden are looking to sign up with NATO, having finally concluded that the benefits of neutrality are outweighed by the risks of having a predatory neighbor.
And if the pain of living with the economic privation and casualties of a poorly executed war becomes high enough, both elites and the general Russian population may make the calculation that rising up will ultimately be less dangerous than continuing to submit. It’s happened before in many times and places.
And this shitty, shitty invasion--all the suffering of innocents on both sides--is brought to you by one murderous little autocrat who, amazingly, at least some Russians actually voted for. Autocracy is becoming increasingly appealing to the right, as witness the recent CPAC conference in Hungary.
I think the Ukrainian situation demonstrates the limits of intimidation. At some point, the intimidator pushes things so far that compliance with his wishes simply becomes too painful or threatening.
After years of appeasement and hollowing out their military under Shroeder and Merkel, the Germans are waking up to their situation and taking action.
After years of studied neutrality, Finland and Sweden are looking to sign up with NATO, having finally concluded that the benefits of neutrality are outweighed by the risks of having a predatory neighbor.
And if the pain of living with the economic privation and casualties of a poorly executed war becomes high enough, both elites and the general Russian population may make the calculation that rising up will ultimately be less dangerous than continuing to submit. It’s happened before in many times and places.
I fully agree with this.
gimmethesimplelife
5-22-22, 11:58am
And this shitty, shitty invasion--all the suffering of innocents on both sides--is brought to you by one murderous little autocrat who, amazingly, at least some Russians actually voted for. Autocracy is becoming increasingly appealing to the right, as witness the recent CPAC conference in Hungary.I really wish human beings could come up with some.form of basic governance that thwarts a Putin from being able to cause such carnage, such ruin, such destruction. I know the more patriotic of you will point to the US - to which I say January 6th, 2021. But at least this day was unsuccessful. I tremble to.think of the fallout had things worked differently. Had January 6th been successful - how far would DJT have gone - I would not have been surprised had there been an invasion of Mexico - or at least an attempt - based on his disdain for Mexico.
Long winded point - We are not quite as far away from this ourselves.....Beyond that, is there hope for a form of.governance that FULLY thwarts the ability of.one individual to do affect the entire planet?
Rob
I really wish human beings could come up with some.form of basic governance that thwarts a Putin from being able to cause such carnage, such ruin, such destruction. I know the more patriotic of you will point to the US - to which I say January 6th, 2021. But at least this day was unsuccessful. I tremble to.think of the fallout had things worked differently. Had January 6th been successful - how far would DJT have gone - I would not have been surprised had there been an invasion of Mexico - or at least an attempt - based on his disdain for Mexico.
Long winded point - We are not quite as far away from this ourselves.....Beyond that, is there hope for a form of.governance that FULLY thwarts the ability of.one individual to do affect the entire planet?
Rob
People who feel the need to describe themselves as "patriots" are like Elon Musk characterizing himself as an "alpha." Laughable.
People who feel the need to describe themselves as "patriots" are like Elon Musk characterizing himself as an "alpha." Laughable.
Easy there. I live in Patriots territory. Only Brady is laughable because he is a traitor.
People who feel the need to describe themselves as "patriots" are like Elon Musk characterizing himself as an "alpha." Laughable.
Oh, I don't know about that. To me, someone considering themselves as patriotic are just expressing their love for something bigger than themselves, in this case their country, in a succinct manner. People who consider themselves patriots generally do it alone and do not expect others to validate it for them.
I save my laughter for those who feel entitled to perhaps choose their own pronouns and demand everyone else respect them, or use their adjectives improperly such as someone politically 'progressive' calling themselves 'liberal'. That's a real knee slapper.
frugal-one
5-22-22, 4:06pm
Those who stormed the capital on Jan 6th (or provoked them to do so) are NOT patriots IMO but traitors who should be treated as such. The damage done and talk of hanging Pence, etc. One person was shot and killed on the spot. Surprisingly, there were not more. What is laughable is these low lifes calling themselves patriots.
iris lilies
5-22-22, 5:46pm
Those who stormed the capital on Jan 6th (or provoked them to do so) are NOT patriots IMO but traitors who should be treated as such. The damage done and talk of hanging Pence, etc. One person was shot and killed on the spot. Surprisingly, there were not more. What is laughable is these low lifes calling themselves patriots.
People can call themselves whatever they like and they could call other people whatever they like. It’s just a dumb label.
The people who stormed the capital, who actually broke down doors and acted like fools are what
I call “fools. “
frugal-one
6-10-22, 3:35pm
Liz Cheney's opening remarks at the Jan 6th Hearing are spot on!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/liz-cheney-fires-warning-to-pro-trump-republicans-during-jan-6-hearing/ar-AAYiKz7
People can call themselves whatever they like and they could call other people whatever they like. It’s just a dumb label.
The people who stormed the capital, who actually broke down doors and acted like fools are what
I call “fools. “
They might more accurately be called "tools." They acted in service to a fool.
Liz Cheney's opening remarks at the Jan 6th Hearing are spot on!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/liz-cheney-fires-warning-to-pro-trump-republicans-during-jan-6-hearing/ar-AAYiKz7
I wasn't a fan of her father, but I really admire her integrity and willingness to speak truth to power, despite the impact on her own standing in her party.
I wasn't a fan of her father, but I really admire her integrity and willingness to speak truth to power, despite the impact on her own standing in her party.
I agree. She is courageous in comparison to the latter-day quislings in her party.
The people who stormed the capital, who actually broke down doors and acted like fools are what
I call “fools. “
"Fools" works for me, but "criminals" is the first word that comes to my mind.
The Proud Boys (sic) have been on my radar since they violently and repeatedly disrupted BLM demonstrations in Portland. They were thugs and criminals long before they were involved in the insurrection.
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2021/08/25/proud-boys-are-still-violent-despite-legal-woes
frugal-one
6-13-22, 5:47pm
We can only hope all republicans and those small r republicans (whatever that means) are watching the Jan 6th hearings and vote trump supporters out of office. What I don't understand is why traitor trump is not in jail??? Supposedly the Justice Department has to investigate him. It makes one wonder if that department is in his pocket too??
The few things that are talked about being done to control gun violence is another story. The NRA contributes to too many republicans so they are afraid of losing their backing...
iris lilies
6-13-22, 6:10pm
We can only hope all republicans and those small r republicans (whatever that means) are watching the Jan 6th hearings and vote trump supporters out of office. What I don't understand is why traitor trump is not in jail??? Supposedly the Justice Department has to investigate him. It makes one wonder if that department is in his pocket too??
The few things that are talked about being done to control gun violence is another story. The NRA contributes to too many republicans so they are afraid of losing their backing...
Is the Devil Trump so awesomely powerful that he has the Justice Department in his pocket? Wow, what a thought. Who knew?!!!!
What I don't understand is why traitor trump is not in jail??? Our justice system is probably having a difficult time finding prosecutable charges based on Jan 6 Committee feelings and innuendo. Of course, the committee isn't actually looking for those charges, preferring to create the first Congressional reality show in hopes of making their dominant brand less odious prior to the mid terms.
Our justice system is probably having a difficult time finding -prosecutable charges based on Jan 6 Committee feelings and innuendo. Of course, the committee isn't actually looking for those charges, preferring to create the first Congressional reality show in hopes of making their dominant brand less odious prior to the mid terms.
Because Liz Cheney is secretly a Democrat sympathizer...(sarcasm, if its not obvious)
frugal-one
6-13-22, 7:11pm
Our justice system is probably having a difficult time finding prosecutable charges based on Jan 6 Committee feelings and innuendo. Of course, the committee isn't actually looking for those charges, preferring to create the first Congressional reality show in hopes of making their dominant brand less odious prior to the mid terms.
Are you one of the ones who contributed to trump? If so, you were ripped off. Showed mega bucks given to his hotel corporation, as well as, to other odious endeavors. trump is a big-time grifter.
And, IL remember trump getting rid of Justice attorneys who did not agree with him. There was also a mass exodus in the Justice Dept based on his lunacy.
And yes, I believe our democracy is in jeopardy based on all that has transpired.
Are you one of the ones who contributed to trump? Nope, I've never attempted to buy favor with a politician. It only encourages them to ask for more.
And, IL remember trump getting rid of Justice attorneys who did not agree with him. US Attorneys hold political positions and serve at the whim of the President. It's a pretty common occurrence to replace many during each administration.
I have a friend who contributed a tiny amount to Trump years ago to get on his mailing list. She gets near constant emails begging and cajoling her to send money.
frugal-one
6-15-22, 9:35am
Rachel Maddow show yesterday illustrated a number of reasons where republican is not the way to vote. The program started out talking how in 2017 when republicans had all the power the FIRST thing they did was pass a law making it easier for those mentally ill to get guns. NOW they will make a big deal about doing more about mental health when in fact …. If you an opportunity to watch her show, it is worthwhile IMO.
gimmethesimplelife
6-15-22, 12:03pm
Because Liz Cheney is secretly a Democrat sympathizer...Gotta say, Liz Cheney may be a Republican but I have a huge amount of respect for her.
Rob
A new poll shows Biden's positive approval ratings outweigh his negatives in only two states, Vermont and Hawaii. Massachusetts is the latest to drop off the list.
Gotta say, Liz Cheney may be a Republican but I have a huge amount of respect for her.
Rob
Absolutely. Historians will be kind to her.
Teacher Terry
6-15-22, 4:02pm
Liz Cheney values doing the right thing over winning re-election. We need more people like her on both sides.
We can only hope all republicans and those small r republicans (whatever that means) are watching the Jan 6th hearings and vote trump supporters out of office. What I don't understand is why traitor trump is not in jail???
I am no big fan of Trump and have watched parts of the hearings. I've not seen evidence of anything he has done that is glaringly illegal. Apparently sedition is a charge they will be going after, and I think that thread is pretty thin and even if it goes through the judicial system, Trump strategy of high power lawyers and tying things up in the court system forever will probably be the case. It feels more like a rerun of the failed impeachment trials rather and less about restoring faith in the election process and discrediting everyone who supports the big lie. But I'm not a legal expert and can hope I'm wrong.
Since presumably Trump would receive a jury trial if they ever charge him with something specific, I wonder what the odds are of getting a jury that would manage to convict?
I'm pretty sure if he shot someone to death on the 8PM News, there'd still at this point be at least one person on the jury who would vote to acquit.
I've always assumed that if trump was going to end up in a jumpsuit to match his ugly spray tan that it would be because of the BS real estate/tax crap he did for decades that's currently being investigated by Letitia James. There are simply too many people like some on this forum who are completely incapable of viewing any action by him, at least when related to his time in the White Supremacy House, as having been meaningfully wrong in any way shape or form. Distasteful, perhaps, but not wrong in any way that people should care about according to those people.
There are simply too many people like some on this forum who are completely incapable of viewing any action by him, at least when related to his time in the White Supremacy House, as having been meaningfully wrong in any way shape or form. Distasteful, perhaps, but not wrong in any way that people should care about according to those people.Which people are those? Might it be the highly partisan members of the Jan 6 committee who seem to have given up on uncovering anything illegal and are now producing reality TV shows in hopes of putting enough doubt in peoples minds to influence a potential 2024 run?
Which people are those? Might it be the highly partisan members of the Jan 6 committee who seem to have given up on uncovering anything illegal and are now producing reality TV shows in hopes of putting enough doubt in peoples minds to influence a potential 2024 run?
Thanks for proving my point.
Thanks for proving my point.
Maybe, but I don't think it was the point you intended. Personally, I think Trump is a ego-maniacal bully with low self esteem issues, I wish he'd just fade away. I also think people hate him for just that reason and many seem to spend too much of their lives trying to promote or build a case for retaliating against him for hurting their feelings. A good portion of our House of Representatives has spent nearly 6 years trying to achieve that goal without any measurable success, and it continues.
I think the Jan 6 committee is using him to build a case against Republicans in general in hopes of enhancing their political fortunes and I believe that's just as dis-tasteful as Trump's ongoing buffoonery. I'm also disappointed to see that roughly half our population have no issues disparaging the other half for seeing that.
If you, the media, and congress really want to hurt Trump you should ignore him, that would hurt him much more than your daily dose of hate ever will, and the country will be better off for it.
iris lilies
6-16-22, 8:56am
…If you, the media, and congress really want to hurt Trump you should ignore him, that would hurt him much more than your daily dose of hate ever will, and the country will be better off for it.
This right here.
you just know The Donald loves taking up so much space in JP’s brain. What’s that saying about living rent free in someone’s head? Well, The Donald is a real estate expert so there ya go.
With apologies to Voltaire, if Trump didn’t exist, it would be necessary to invent him. Absent him, people might be talking about things like crime or inflation.
It's funny how some people think that being pissed that a president, with the support of a significant chunk of his political party*, attempting to overthrow the government is just hurt feelings. I can't imagine caring so little for this country that that would be my only reaction.
*apparently including some of the conservative hacks on the supreme court as well according to yesterday's news.
It's funny how some people think that being pissed that a president, with the support of a significant chunk of his political party*, attempting to overthrow the government is just hurt feelings. I can't imagine caring so little for this country that that would be my only reaction.
*apparently including some of the conservative hacks on the supreme court as well according to yesterday's news.
JP you've been pissed at the same guy for over 4 years, saying the same things over and over, hating him and disparaging anyone who doesn't hate as much as you do. The events of Jan 6 only piss you off even more because it wasn't BLM or Antifa or some other group you approve of storming the Capitol. The Democratic Party and the media both encourage you for their own purposes and you don't even realize it. Of course, you're in good company there.
The trump problem is t going to go away once he’s died and gone to hell. Republicans have simply decided that elections just don’t matter and won’t respect them.
https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-new-mexico-voting-election-recounts-general-54745f2169166e82090d0f7bc1ddc1b2
Trump has never hurt my feelings, but he's often triggered my gag reflex and made me ashamed and embarrassed for my country.
I remember when Watergate happened and we were lucky enough to be able to listen to a live feed at work. What I don't remember is the whole Republican party encircling and protecting Nixon--whose crimes, IMO, were similar--trying to maintain political power--but much less egregious. And I don't remember a television network stubbornly supporting his lies, or "militias" full of thugs devoted to his cause, or Russian talking points being uttered by pundits and men in the street. You didn't see the hearings being characterized as partisan theater. As long as today's Republicans--with a very few notable exceptions--persist in defending Trump to the bitter end, with all that entails--I have no hope for his party. I agree with Senator Cheney that Trump will be gone some day, but the dishonor of his defenders will remain.
JP you've been pissed at the same guy for over 4 years, saying the same things over and over, hating him and disparaging anyone who doesn't hate as much as you do. The events of Jan 6 only piss you off even more because it wasn't BLM or Antifa or some other group you approve of storming the Capitol. The Democratic Party and the media both encourage you for their own purposes and you don't even realize it. Of course, you're in good company there.
It's not just the ****ing events of J6 that piss me off. It's the fact that a damn president along with many people inside and outside of his administration made a month's long, deadly serious attempt to overthrow the government. Frankly I find it appalling that some people just don't seem to give a crap and would happily let all those involved not be held responsible for their actions. Law and order party indeed. Like so much of the republican party that was just another lie. So, no, I'm not going to stop disparaging the people I am appalled by.
It's occurred to me that Trump will be trying extra hard to get elected again so he can once again be protected by presidential immunity and also pardon any of his accused cohorts.
frugal-one
6-16-22, 8:59pm
Since presumably Trump would receive a jury trial if they ever charge him with something specific, I wonder what the odds are of getting a jury that would manage to convict?
I'm pretty sure if he shot someone to death on the 8PM News, there'd still at this point be at least one person on the jury who would vote to acquit.
Sadly, trump himself said something to that effect earlier... basically that he could get away with anything.
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Sadly, trump himself said something to that effect earlier... basically that he could get away with anything.
I suspect he is accurate, as it only takes a single person to keep a jury from convicting.
frugal-one
6-16-22, 9:02pm
Maybe, but I don't think it was the point you intended. Personally, I think Trump is a ego-maniacal bully with low self esteem issues, I wish he'd just fade away. I also think people hate him for just that reason and many seem to spend too much of their lives trying to promote or build a case for retaliating against him for hurting their feelings. A good portion of our House of Representatives has spent nearly 6 years trying to achieve that goal without any measurable success, and it continues.
I think the Jan 6 committee is using him to build a case against Republicans in general in hopes of enhancing their political fortunes and I believe that's just as dis-tasteful as Trump's ongoing buffoonery. I'm also disappointed to see that roughly half our population have no issues disparaging the other half for seeing that.
If you, the media, and congress really want to hurt Trump you should ignore him, that would hurt him much more than your daily dose of hate ever will, and the country will be better off for it.
Kinda hard when he has republicans still kowtowing to him.
frugal-one
6-16-22, 9:04pm
Trump has never hurt my feelings, but he's often triggered my gag reflex and made me ashamed and embarrassed for my country.
I remember when Watergate happened and we were lucky enough to be able to listen to a live feed at work. What I don't remember is the whole Republican party encircling and protecting Nixon--whose crimes, IMO, were similar--trying to maintain political power--but much less egregious. And I don't remember a television network stubbornly supporting his lies, or "militias" full of thugs devoted to his cause, or Russian talking points being uttered by pundits and men in the street. You didn't see the hearings being characterized as partisan theater. As long as today's Republicans--with a very few notable exceptions--persist in defending Trump to the bitter end, with all that entails--I have no hope for his party. I agree with Senator Cheney that Trump will be gone some day, but the dishonor of his defenders will remain.
Oops--that should be Congresswoman Cheney.
I would vote for Congresswoman Cheney for president, and I'm not a Republican.
While she has integrity I would not vote for Cheney because she is a warmonger. She fought against the withdrawal from Afghanistan among other things.
I would vote for Congresswoman Cheney for president, and I'm not a Republican.
I'm pretty sure we agree on absolutely nothing, including that her father is a war criminal, and I wouldn't vote for her under any foreseeable circumstances, but I would be interested to see how she would run the country.
catherine
6-17-22, 10:27am
Yeah, I'll give Cheney credit for defying her party, but that doesn't make me her potential voter.
Coincidentally, DH and I watched the movie VICE, with Christian Bale. Later I looked it up to see what was factual and what was dramatic license, because it certainly didn't paint a flattering picture of Dick Cheney. Also, it shed light on interesting family dynamics and how politics impacted relationships, like when Liz Cheney said she didn't support same-sex marriage in order to win a congressional seat, even though she fully backed her gay sister Mary's relationship. She basically threw her sister under the bus for political capital. And, according to other sources, that was fact.
Interesting movie, directed in an interesting way. I liked it. Christian Bale was incredible, as he always is. And it was a star-studded movie. Steve Carrell as Donald Rumsfeld was a surprise.
Yeah, I'll give Cheney credit for defying her party, but that doesn't make me her potential voter.
Coincidentally, DH and I watched the movie VICE, with Christian Bale. Later I looked it up to see what was factual and what was dramatic license, because it certainly didn't paint a flattering picture of Dick Cheney. Also, it shed light on interesting family dynamics and how politics impacted relationships, like when Liz Cheney said she didn't support same-sex marriage in order to win a congressional seat, even though she fully backed her gay sister Mary's relationship. She basically threw her sister under the bus for political capital. And, according to other sources, that was fact.
Interesting movie, directed in an interesting way. I liked it. Christian Bale was incredible, as he always is. And it was a star-studded movie. Steve Carrell as Donald Rumsfeld was a surprise.
She reversed her stand on gay marriage after she won her election, quietly and belatedly. Not a sister's finest hour,
I think I'd like that film; I remember thinking the casting and/or makeup was outstanding.
She reversed her stand on gay marriage after she won her election, quietly and belatedly. Not a sister's finest hour,
Barack Obama did as well, and yet he's loved and adored. Are you sure you're not being misogynistic?
Barack Obama did as well, and yet he's loved and adored. Are you sure you're not being misogynistic?
A lot of people have changed their minds on this issue, me included. We had a domestic partnership law, which seemed adequate until I educated myself on the benefits of marriage (what did I know?) And my sibling wasn't "gay-married" yet. I just wish Cheney hadn't embarrassed her sister while she was pondering the issue. That's certainly not my main issue with her.
It’s a cynical flip-flop when the other side does it. It’s “evolving” when our side does it.
Well it's not like I was making public pronouncements during my thought process...I suppose politicians can't ever say "I'm still formulating an opinion on that issue."
iris lilies
6-17-22, 5:46pm
Well it's not like I was making public pronouncements during my thought process...I suppose politicians can't ever say "I'm still formulating an opinion on that issue."
Yes I wish they would say that. My local alderman guys do say that but then we’re more in touch with them
Well, the Texas GOP sure went full-Trump at their convention this week.
Among other things, they passed this resolution:
"We reject the certified results of the 2020 Presidential election, and we hold that acting President Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. was not legitimately elected by the people of the United States. We strongly urge all Republicans to work to ensure election integrity and to show up to vote in November of 2022, bring your friends and family, volunteer for your local Republicans, and overwhelm any possible fraud."
And the platform they adopted contains the usual motherhood, apple-pie, and hatred we have come to expect.
frugal-one
6-20-22, 4:17pm
Well, the Texas GOP sure went full-Trump at their convention this week.
Among other things, they passed this resolution:
"We reject the certified results of the 2020 Presidential election, and we hold that acting President Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. was not legitimately elected by the people of the United States. We strongly urge all Republicans to work to ensure election integrity and to show up to vote in November of 2022, bring your friends and family, volunteer for your local Republicans, and overwhelm any possible fraud."
And the platform they adopted contains the usual motherhood, apple-pie, and hatred we have come to expect.
Ludicrous! Unbelievable that anyone would vote republican in the future.... The article below was from 2017, interestingly that is what trump wanted done to his VP.
https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/donald-trump-effigy-hangs-from-tree-with-noose-around-its-neck
I am so embarrassed of Texas lately. They have gone certifiably nuts.
iris lilies
6-20-22, 7:02pm
Well, the Texas GOP sure went full-Trump at their convention this week.
Among other things, they passed this resolution:
"We reject the certified results of the 2020 Presidential election, and we hold that acting President Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. was not legitimately elected by the people of the United States. We strongly urge all Republicans to work to ensure election integrity and to show up to vote in November of 2022, bring your friends and family, volunteer for your local Republicans, and overwhelm any possible fraud."
And the platform they adopted contains the usual motherhood, apple-pie, and hatred we have come to expect.
there’s nothing wrong with motherhood and apple pie although I’m not so keen on hatred. But if more Republicans step up to work the election process, that would be great. Nothing is going to stop any real fraud in St. Louis since it is deeply ingrained, most likely. But if more Republicans would volunteer regularly at the polls, it could make an impact long-term.
years ago I knew the process here and it was that there was supposed to be Democrat and Republican “election judges “and each polling place. The “Republicans “are so few and far between that people who are actually Democrats fill the role sometimes. I believe the process was the local precinct committeeman had to approve the person claiming to be Democrat or Republican. I’m not sure if that process is still in place. I just remember thinking that a couple of the people I saw appointed as Republicans were honest friends, so whether or not they were actually Republicans did not matter to me.
Same where I am IL. Not enough Republicans to poll watch but here independents fill the gap not Dems.
"We strongly urge all Republicans to work to ensure election integrity..."
Translation: "If the Republican didn't win, yell "fraud."
You notice they never challenge or question the results in their favor.
"We strongly urge all Republicans to work to ensure election integrity..."
Translation: "If the Republican didn't win, yell "fraud."
You notice they never challenge or question the results in their favor.
I have never once heard of this in my state. Must be a swing state phenomenon.
I have never once heard of this in my state. Must be a swing state phenomenon.
Not necessarily--this is a concerted effort to make the electorate skeptical of election results throughout the country.
https://news.yahoo.com/lawsuits-filed-washington-state-over-180000969.html
"Secretary of State Kym Wyman, the only Republican currently holding statewide office, said in a statement that this is “the new reality” for elections officials.
“It doesn’t matter how wide a margin in the results,” she said. “You call everything into question and it undermines the validity of everything in the process.” (Yahoo News)
This bullshit fake election fraud is going to be the undoing of our country. Some people will quietly sit by and be pleased with the results since team ugly red will be the winner when that happens. All I can say is **** them and the god damn ugly horse they rode in on.
This bullshit fake election fraud is going to be the undoing of our country. Some people will quietly sit by and be pleased with the results since team ugly red will be the winner when that happens. All I can say is **** them and the god damn ugly horse they rode in on.
With eloquence like that, you should consider running for office yourself.
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 10:18am
I thought I'd step in with a potential topic changing tidbit. Astrid calls me around every national election to make sure I don't vote Republican. I do find this annoying as I'd never do such a thing and I expect to be trusted as I've always kept this integrity intact.
When asked she said the following - You are disadvantaged and disenfranchised in that strange country. As if that were an explanation for not trusting my voting integrity! I'd never suspect them of voting OVP (Osterreichische Volkspartei) - The Austrian People's Party, what passes for Austrian Republicans.
I find it funky that even on a family level, there can be voting distrust/suspicion.
Rob
When asked she said the following - You are disadvantaged and disenfranchised in that strange country. Did she explain why she believes that to be true?
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 11:18am
Did she explain why she believes that to be true?Alan.....do you really need to ask that at this point? Rob
Alan.....do you really need to ask that at this point? Rob
Just curious why she would think that way and if you agree with her. You present yourself as a fairly successful, happy, loved and appreciated person living the American dream. I'm just wondering why either of you would see yourself differently.
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 11:36am
Just curious why she would think that way and if you agree with her. You present yourself as a fairly successful, happy, loved and appreciated person living the American dream. I'm just wondering why either of you would see yourself differently.It IS true that I am doing better, even much better, than when I first arrived here waiting tables in 2005. That said, I will never unsee the truths of America that I learned lucking out and getting to this point, much.of which was sheer luck and having the right people like me. And the virus definitely helped me break out of.hospitality.
And I'm getting off point. I am doing.better but I will always distrust and fear this country - as I said, I learned too much of the truth of it getting to thus current station in life. Disadvantaged though - maybe not so.much these days, I'll give you that. But definitely disenfranchised- I just know how to act as if this is not the case. I guess my.point is as follows - Deficiencies in citizenship have consequences. Something I wish more Americans were capable of grasping.
Rob
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 11:40am
Just curious why she would think that way and if you agree with her. You present yourself as a fairly successful, happy, loved and appreciated person living the American dream. I'm just wondering why either of you would see yourself differently.As to why Astrid would think this way - all she has to do is comparison shop modern day Austria vs. modern day Austria. The United States cones off as pathetically lacking in any such comparison - though as always I'll give you that Austria has a darker past than the US.
Rob
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 11:41am
Should have been modern day Austria vs modern day America. My mistake, my bad. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 11:49am
One last point - how attached can a thinking person possibly be to a country in which Uvalde can happen; police can get away with this utterly inexcusable behavior AND a country in which the right to bear arms is more important than young life?
I'm not capable of much attachment to such a country. I see myself and most people I know as too inherently decent to have attachment to a country in which my first paragraph holds true.
Rob
I guess my.point is as follows - Deficiencies in citizenship have consequences. Something I wish more Americans were capable of grasping.
Rob
So, are you implying that all citizens of this country are disadvantaged and disenfranchised due to some sort of comparison to Austria or some other country? Or is it more granular than that?
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 12:11pm
So, are you implying that all citizens of this country are disadvantaged and disenfranchised due to some sort of comparison to Austria or some other country? Or is it more granular than that?I would agree that Uvalde disenfranchised decent everyday people capable of seeing the implications for what they are. Disadvantaged? Go to any US urban area and look around you - if you are capable if grasping implications. And it's getting worse not just every year but every few months now.
Rob
I would agree that Uvalde disenfranchised decent everyday people capable of seeing the implications for what they are.
What does this sentence mean?
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 12:17pm
So, are you implying that all citizens of this country are disadvantaged and disenfranchised due to some sort of comparison to Austria or some other country? Or is it more granular than that?Access to health care - a basic human right in every other developed country and even some developing countries (Thailand is an example) very much disadvantages many US citizens. I may have health insurance now but I can not unsee what America has shown me on my way getting to this station in life. And I'm far too decent to ever be like I've got mine, go get yours - I will not co-sign the deficiencies of this citizenship that way. We ALL deserve better.
Rob
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 12:20pm
What does this sentence mean?After Uvalde and being proven that the right to bear arms is more important than those murdered children, how could anyone ever have warmth towards or loyalty to the United States ever again? Uvalde is proof that realistically, the US is not a developed country - at least not in terms of basic human rights. We all deserve BETTER.
Rob
... the right to bear arms is more important than those murdered children,
Your analysis is deficient. You know this, but yes, it's a good sound bite.
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 12:44pm
Your analysis is deficient. You know this, but yes, it's a good sound bite.Ummmmm......when Australia had a mass shooting in the 90's, it's government moved swiftly to limit access to weapons. Human life is worth this in Australia. Human life is not worth this in the US - not even for innocent children. There is no unseeing this - Uvalde will for the remainder of my life block any attachment for me to the US. There is no excuse for this citizenship deficiency. None whatsoever.
Rob
frugal-one
6-21-22, 3:38pm
I taped the hearings to watch later today. Have a feeling it will reveal (by sworn republicans) what a slimeball trump is. Tonight at 7pm central a recap will be on Rachel Maddow. Stephen Colbert will have something to say too, I am sure.
iris lilies
6-21-22, 3:45pm
I thought I'd step in with a potential topic changing tidbit. Astrid calls me around every national election to make sure I don't vote Republican. I do find this annoying as I'd never do such a thing and I expect to be trusted as I've always kept this integrity intact.
When asked she said the following - You are disadvantaged and disenfranchised in that strange country. As if that were an explanation for not trusting my voting integrity! I'd never suspect them of voting OVP (Osterreichische Volkspartei) - The Austrian People's Party, what passes for Austrian Republicans.
I find it funky that even on a family level, there can be voting distrust/suspicion.
Rob
This is all performative BS from the both of you.
Am I alone in wishing cousin Astrid a trip to the moon, as Ralph Kramden would say?
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 4:13pm
This is all performative BS from the both of you.
Am I alone in wishing cousin Astrid a trip to the moon, as Ralph Kramden would say?IL, IL, IL.....When America behaves as if human life means nothing (Uvalde), persons with better citizenship - at least some of them - are going to call the United States out for what it really is. Consider it a well deserved price tag. Austria and Germany dealt with this after WW2....they've had their turn. Don't like it? Don't blindly a support the US after extremely telling incidents such as Uvalde.
About Astrid - she is entirely correct and within her rights in her call on America on this one. I find it utterly amazing that this passes by you. No need to send her off to the moon - someone like her needs some US national airspace to at least try to clue in a few Americans as to how the rest of the world sees this country. Hint: It's not very flattering.
This, to date anyway, is unlikely to happen in Austria. It's a more cohesive society overall and more help is available to those who need it - I'm thinking government checks to those facing legit struggles (and no shame surrounding this assistance) plus easier access to mental health help - and much more societal expectation(s) as to your behavior.
True Austria is no innocent nation. That said, since it's return to First World Status in the mid to late 70's, it's taken much better care of it's citizenry than America ever has. I have the emotional strength to not only face this but also to never in my lifetime unsee this. YMMV and that's cool - just don't expect persons with better citizenship to unsee something like Uvalde. It's not going to happen.
Rob
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 4:26pm
I am so embarrassed of Texas lately. They have gone certifiably nuts.I feel very sorry for the residents of Austin - they deserve to be part of a much better state than what Texas is showing itself to be. I can't unsee the latest from Texas, either. Not only the belief that the 2020 election was stolen but the GOP's stance in Texas that homosexuality is an "Abnormal Lifestyle Choice" - boy howdy I'd love an audience with these utter bufoons. They of course would not listen to a word I'd say so perhaps it's for the best that this won't happen. What an utter embarrassment even for a rapidly sliding country such as this.
I'm glad I saw Austin when I did. I could not enter Texas now.
Rob
I feel very sorry for the residents of Austin - they deserve to be part of a much better state than what Texas is showing itself to be. I can't unsee the latest from Texas, either. Not only the belief that the 2020 election was stolen but the GOP's stance in Texas that homosexuality is an "Abnormal Lifestyle Choice" - boy howdy I'd love an audience with these utter bufoons. They of course would not listen to a word I'd say so perhaps it's for the best that this won't happen. What an utter embarrassment even for a rapidly sliding country such as this.
I'm glad I saw Austin when I did. I could not enter Texas now.
Rob
A friend's son, a young gay man, moved to Austin this year. I'm baffled, but I hope the influx of sane people like him will eventually supplant the barbarians who apparently run most of the state.
rosarugosa
6-21-22, 4:59pm
I think your cousin has a nerve to think that how you vote is any of her business, or that she is entitled to any input in the matter, but I guess if you're OK with it, that's all that matters.
I also think we should give TX back to Mexico, if they are willing to take it.
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 5:39pm
A friend's son, a young gay man, moved to Austin this year. I'm baffled, but I hope the influx of sane people like him will eventually supplant the barbarians who apparently run most of the state.I wish this young man happiness and safety - though I will say that when I was in Austin pushing 10 years ago. I did run across many young guys wearing pride button's and such in public. Austin, at least then, was a sane reprieve from the remainder of Texas. Hopefully it remains this way. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 5:40pm
I think your cousin has a nerve to think that how you vote is any of her business, or that she is entitled to any input in the matter, but I guess if you're OK with it, that's all that matters.
I also think we should give TX back to Mexico, if they are willing to take it.LOL as long as we can keep Austin I'm all for it. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 5:46pm
I think your cousin has a nerve to think that how you vote is any of her business, or that she is entitled to any input in the matter, but I guess if you're OK with it, that's all that matters.
I also think we should give TX back to Mexico, if they are willing to take it.Forgot to add - Rugarosa, I can see where you are coming from and I can see why this would creep some out. In Austria, such is not considered intrusive - seriously - because how one votes is considered to have impact on the well being of society.
I am American enough to find this annoying, but Austrian enough to understand and even agree - to a point. Astrid means well and as I've stated before those at Schiffmuhlenstasse in Vienna do worry about me being in the US. They very much mean well.
Rob
A friend's son, a young gay man, moved to Austin this year. I'm baffled, but I hope the influx of sane people like him will eventually supplant the barbarians who apparently run most of the state.
Mayra Flores anyone?
gimmethesimplelife
6-21-22, 6:12pm
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/20/1106229988/texas-gops-new-platform-says-biden-didnt-really-win-it-also-calls-for-secession
Perhaps there is no need to give Texas - minus Austin of course - back to Mexico. Per the above, apparently the GOP platform in Texas calls for a vote on secession! I won't be running to Texas to be part of a new Texas Nation, that's for sure.
Rob
Per the above, apparently the GOP platform in Texas calls for a vote on secession!
Well, the International Covenant on Human Rights, Article 1, item 1 states:
All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
So, godspeed and farewell to Texas.
Austin is a tiny island in a sea of Republicans.
ApatheticNoMore
6-21-22, 8:38pm
I'm not sure Texas is as Republican as it appears, though it did go for Trump, it's heavily gerrymandered. It's not the most blue state out there either, but it's engineered to be redder than it is.
"As Republicans push extreme bills in the legislature, they’re also bolstered by an extremely powerful political advantage. A decade ago, Republicans had complete control over the process of drawing the boundaries for state legislative and congressional districts. It allowed them to distort the lines to help Republicans win elections and guarantee their election in the state legislature over the past 10 years. This year the lines will be redrawn again and Republicans once again will have complete control of the process.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/05/gerrymandering-empowered-hard-right-texas
Texas may have the worst gerrymander in the country:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/videos/texas-may-have-the-worst-gerrymander-in-the-country/
So people moving there isn't easily going to change things (even all the liberals in California ha - but why would they want to? Might be okay for retirement but for young people or to raise kids? yikes) because there are a lot of gerrymandering backstops to prevent majority representation via voting.
frugal-one
6-21-22, 9:27pm
Watched the hearings today. Sworn testimony by republicans ... trump needs to be made to account for his actions. Wish all people would watch and make their own determination.
So people moving there isn't easily going to change things (even all the liberals in California ha - but why would they want to? Might be okay for retirement but for young people or to raise kids? yikes)
1. In person school.
2. Lower taxes.
3. Lower crime.
4. Stores in the area where you can shop, not closing down due to brazen robberies.
Why do you think California's electoral votes are down and Texas's are up?
With eloquence like that, you should consider running for office yourself.
Do you simply disagree with my presentation or the actual point itself? And considering that you’re part of the party that has a senatorial candidate in Missouri (who was previously the governor) recommending the killing of rino’s like you I’d suggest that republicans have effing killed eloquence. Don’t blame me. I’m just the messenger you keep pretending isn’t making a valid point.
ApatheticNoMore
6-22-22, 1:17am
1. In person school.
2. Lower taxes.
3. Lower crime.
4. Stores in the area where you can shop, not closing down due to brazen robberies.
Why do you think California's electoral votes are down and Texas's are up?
anyone who I ever talked to who was moving there was fairly conservative, I mostly joke about liberal Californians moving there because it's a cliche and one that people love to hate.
Crime is so amorphous and it can be hard to even quantify as minor crimes can probably differ in count by enforcement etc., but you actually think there is that much crime? There is it seems little basis for this belief.
Here is comparison of murder rates, the difference isn't much but Texas is higher.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/murder-rate-by-state
Here are violent crime rates, again similar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_violent_cri me_rate
That's why this lower crime, what are we counting if not murders and violent crimes, petty theft? And even then I have no reason to believe it's higher in California, but I think when you get down to things like that, truly minor crimes, it gets harder to compare apples to apples. Automobile theft is one I think could well be higher in CA., honestly though you insure against it. But homicide and violent crimes not seeing it.
Crime is bad enough in California a DA was recalled for being too liberal for San Francisco.
The murder rate is far far higher in red Kern County (Bakersfield) than it is in either San Francisco or LA county. But you are correct. Your car is probably far more likely to be broken into in San Francisco.
Do you simply disagree with my presentation or the actual point itself? And considering that you’re part of the party that has a senatorial candidate in Missouri (who was previously the governor) recommending the killing of rino’s like you I’d suggest that republicans have effing killed eloquence. Don’t blame me. I’m just the messenger you keep pretending isn’t making a valid point.
I think I get the point you’re trying to make. Trump made a ridiculous failed attempt to stay in office. Some idiots believed him, and behaved like they were in Portland. But it wasn’t the good kind of political violence, so Republicans should wear sackcloth and ashes and be crushed at the polls. Frustratingly enough, this doesn’t appear to be happening, so righteous vulgarity is completely understandable.
I get that, but my horse Ol’ Deplorable took offense and will probably still vote for the GOP out of sheer spite.
frugal-one
6-22-22, 4:46pm
I think I get the point you’re trying to make. Trump made a ridiculous failed attempt to stay in office. Some idiots believed him, and behaved like they were in Portland. But it wasn’t the good kind of political violence, so Republicans should wear sackcloth and ashes and be crushed at the polls. Frustratingly enough, this doesn’t appear to be happening, so righteous vulgarity is completely understandable.
I get that, but my horse Ol’ Deplorable took offense and will probably still vote for the GOP out of sheer spite.
Thought you were a republican with a small (r)?
Portland would have nothing to apologize for, if it weren't for the Proud Boys (sic) who regularly showed up to cause trouble--practicing for January 6, apparently.
Portland would have nothing to apologize for, if it weren't for the Proud Boys (sic) who regularly showed up to cause trouble--practicing for January 6, apparently.
So since they were done practicing and January 6 is in the rearview mirror it's all hunky dory there? No one moving away because of the rampant crime caused by legions of homeless people out of their skulls on meth?
So since they were done practicing and January 6 is in the rearview mirror it's all hunky dory there? No one moving away because of the rampant crime caused by legions of homeless people out of their skulls on meth?
LDAHL seemed to be referencing the BLM protests (usually paired with references to the terrorist* group Antifa.)
*Note: Antifa is not in any way a terrorist organization. I don't think it's even an organization. Maybe they have it confused with the anarchists.
I can't argue with you about the homeless problem--the scourge of the West Coast, not just Portland.
ApatheticNoMore
6-22-22, 7:14pm
Homeless yes, but them being a cause of rampant crime, where does that even come from?
Homeless yes, but them being a cause of rampant crime, where does that even come from?
I'm not sure about Seattle, but the meth heads are heavily involved with chop shops, car thefts, and petty crime almost non-stop in Portland. My friends have had several car break ins and a couple of cars stolen. The last one didn't get far because the perps couldn't get The Club off the steering wheel. :0!
I think I get the point you’re trying to make. Trump made a ridiculous failed attempt to stay in office. Some idiots believed him, and behaved like they were in Portland. But it wasn’t the good kind of political violence, so Republicans should wear sackcloth and ashes and be crushed at the polls.
I think there's quite a bit of difference between some demented folks causing trouble in Portland by occupying a few blocks while the (perhaps misguided) police tried to deal with the situation peacefully, and an (inept) plot to seize the Capitol, hang elected officials, and throw a coup, endangering our entire nation and system of government.
People who equate the two cases, well... hmmm....
(I mean, *I'd* equate them in a way - in both cases, I would have preferred such an incredible and overwhelming armed police response that it would be remembered for generations, to discourage other idiots in the future....)
Portland would have nothing to apologize for, if it weren't for the Proud Boys (sic) who regularly showed up to cause trouble--practicing for January 6, apparently.
First those crafty miscreants set up an “autonomous zone”, and then they set fire to a federal courthouse. All to mislead the public into blaming peaceful souls for their sins.
I think there's quite a bit of difference between some demented folks causing trouble in Portland by occupying a few blocks while the (perhaps misguided) police tried to deal with the situation peacefully, and an (inept) plot to seize the Capitol, hang elected officials, and throw a coup, endangering our entire nation and system of government.
People who equate the two cases, well... hmmm....
(I mean, *I'd* equate them in a way - in both cases, I would have preferred such an incredible and overwhelming armed police response that it would be remembered for generations, to discourage other idiots in the future....)
Was our constitutional order really endangered by this buffoonery? Of course Trump was spouting BS. Maybe even criminally so. But doesn’t it take a similar level of hysteria to insist that we were a hair’s breadth away from buffalo-hatted fascism?
Or are certain parties desperate for a distraction from issues in the real world?
ApatheticNoMore
6-22-22, 8:46pm
Just because a coup attempt doesn't succeed doesn't mean it wasn't a coup attempt.
I think there's a bunch of idiots on both extremes of the political spectrum and then there's the rest of us either shaking our heads at their antics or trying to blame whichever political party they hate the most. This thread is a perfect example of the latter.
The First Amendment still stands. We still have the right to protest. And, IMO, BLM had a valid grievance.
...
(I mean, *I'd* equate them in a way - in both cases, I would have preferred such an incredible and overwhelming armed police response that it would be remembered for generations, to discourage other idiots in the future....)
I hear that's how they deal with dissenters in Putin's Russia. Shame on you.
I hear that's how they deal with dissenters in Putin's Russia. Shame on you.
When you are breaking down the doors of the Capitol, yelling death threats, and going after our representatives while they are doing their job, you are a bit more than a "dissenter"....
I agree the capitol coupsters should have been met by an overwhelming response, but Trump didn't authorize any response for hours, aside from the overwhelmed Capitol Police, so people who had training in detaining unruly tourists--and not in hand-to-hand combat--were hung out to dry, with disastrous results.
"(I mean, *I'd* equate them in a way - in both cases, I would have preferred such an incredible and overwhelming armed police response that it would be remembered for generations, to discourage other idiots in the future....)"
You mean like Kent State is remembered? Again, we have a constitutional right to protest in this country. I don't want to live in a totalitarian society where you can be jailed for dissent, and we seem to be heading that way.
frugal-one
6-22-22, 10:57pm
Was our constitutional order really endangered by this buffoonery? Of course Trump was spouting BS. Maybe even criminally so. But doesn’t it take a similar level of hysteria to insist that we were a hair’s breadth away from buffalo-hatted fascism?
Or are certain parties desperate for a distraction from issues in the real world?
Of course we were a hair's breath away from hanging the VP. The republicans are the one who are trying to distract from the issues again.
frugal-one
6-22-22, 11:01pm
I think there's quite a bit of difference between some demented folks causing trouble in Portland by occupying a few blocks while the (perhaps misguided) police tried to deal with the situation peacefully, and an (inept) plot to seize the Capitol, hang elected officials, and throw a coup, endangering our entire nation and system of government.
People who equate the two cases, well... hmmm....
(I mean, *I'd* equate them in a way - in both cases, I would have preferred such an incredible and overwhelming armed police response that it would be remembered for generations, to discourage other idiots in the future....)
I agree with this at the Capitol. They should have continued to shoot and whoever kept coming got shot. That would have ended it once and for all.
frugal-one
6-22-22, 11:04pm
I think there's a bunch of idiots on both extremes of the political spectrum and then there's the rest of us either shaking our heads at their antics or trying to blame whichever political party they hate the most. This thread is a perfect example of the latter.
What about those of us who have voted both parties? IMO the republican party is no more. If there was a candidate that was in the medium of the spectrum I would consider them. These days, not so much.
I agree the capitol coupsters should have been met by an overwhelming response, but Trump didn't authorize any response for hours, aside from the overwhelmed Capitol Police, so people who had training in detaining unruly tourists--and not in hand-to-hand combat--were hung out to dry, with disastrous results.
"(I mean, *I'd* equate them in a way - in both cases, I would have preferred such an incredible and overwhelming armed police response that it would be remembered for generations, to discourage other idiots in the future....)"
You mean like Kent State is remembered? Again, we have a constitutional right to protest in this country. I don't want to live in a totalitarian society where you can be jailed for dissent, and we seem to be heading that way.
As I recall, in the Portland case, more than "dissent" occurred. Once you start delving into arson, or unlawful imprisonment, you're in a whole different ballpark. You know this.
As I recall, in the Portland case, more than "dissent" occurred. Once you start delving into arson, or unlawful imprisonment, you're in a whole different ballpark. You know this.
And those people were arrested, as they should have been.
I think I get the point you’re trying to make. Trump made a ridiculous failed attempt to stay in office. Some idiots believed him, and behaved like they were in Portland. But it wasn’t the good kind of political violence, so Republicans should wear sackcloth and ashes and be crushed at the polls. Frustratingly enough, this doesn’t appear to be happening, so righteous vulgarity is completely understandable.
I get that, but my horse Ol’ Deplorable took offense and will probably still vote for the GOP out of sheer spite.
You act like the republicans are done. Nothing could be further from the truth. I’ve pointed out many examples and will continue to do so. I imagine you’ll keep ignoring them and voting for traitors like Ron Johnson. At least pence’s staffer had the morals and ethics (so uncommon in the traitor party these days) to tell Johnson’s staffer to eff off with the fake slate of electors from your state.
You act like the republicans are done. Nothing could be further from the truth. . . At least pence’s staffer had the morals and ethics (so uncommon in the traitor party these days) to tell Johnson’s staffer to eff off with the fake slate of electors from your state.
I agree--if the Texas Republican platform is any indication, this is not done. I think the Trump party has co-opted the Republican party, and the Trump party is not done. I think people who have voted in the past for Republican candidates, as I have, should be very careful not to assume that a candidate with R in front of their name is any way representative of the Republican party as they remember it.
frugal-one
6-23-22, 7:08am
I agree--if the Texas Republican platform is any indication, this is not done. I think the Trump party has co-opted the Republican party, and the Trump party is not done. I think people who have voted in the past for Republican candidates, as I have, should be very careful not to assume that a candidate with R in front of their name is any way representative of the Republican party as they remember it.
Well said!
I agree the capitol coupsters should have been met by an overwhelming response, but Trump didn't authorize any response for hours, aside from the overwhelmed Capitol Police, so people who had training in detaining unruly tourists--and not in hand-to-hand combat--were hung out to dry, with disastrous results.
"(I mean, *I'd* equate them in a way - in both cases, I would have preferred such an incredible and overwhelming armed police response that it would be remembered for generations, to discourage other idiots in the future....)"
You mean like Kent State is remembered? Again, we have a constitutional right to protest in this country. I don't want to live in a totalitarian society where you can be jailed for dissent, and we seem to be heading that way.
The US President is not responsible for security at the US capital. Trump had no authority to “authorize a response”; which I think is a good thing that there was no Praetorian Guard to add to the mix.
Was our constitutional order really endangered by this buffoonery? Of course Trump was spouting BS. Maybe even criminally so. But doesn’t it take a similar level of hysteria to insist that we were a hair’s breadth away from buffalo-hatted fascism?
Or are certain parties desperate for a distraction from issues in the real world?
You characterize an armed mob, constructing a gallows, breaking into the capital and coming within 40 feet of the target, the vice president of the United States, with the intention to murder him, "buffoonery"? You think that the hearings are because the democratic party is desperate for a distraction?
Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?
Hitler failed at a coup attempt in 1923, and was jailed for five years. Apparently, you can't keep a bad man down, either.
The most chilling anecdote in the January 6 narrative was Mike Pence demurring "I'm not getting in that car" when the Secret Service came to collect him.
"Pence clearly knew what Trump might have had in store for him if he didn’t overturn the results of the 2020 Presidential election as Trump had demanded. “It’s anybody’s guess what could have happened — martial law, civil war. You know, the beginning of authoritarianism,” Rep. Raskin said, speculating on what might have unfolded if the plan was successful. “I want people to pay attention to what’s going on here, because that’s as close to fascism as I ever want my country to come to." (HillReporter, April 23, 2022)
iris lilies
6-23-22, 9:56am
The US President is not responsible for security at the US capital. Trump had no authority to “authorize a response”; which I think is a good thing that there was no Praetorian Guard to add to the mix.
That was my immediate thought too, that Donald Trump doesn’t run law enforcement.
I suppose he could always put pressure on whichever government official runs the local National Guard ( I don’t know how that works in Washington DC) but calling out a national guard would have… taken a while.
iris lilies
6-23-22, 9:57am
Hitler failed at a coup attempt in 1923, and was jailed for five years. Apparently, you can't keep a bad man down, either.
The most chilling anecdote in the January 6 narrative was Mike Pence demurring "I'm not getting in that car" when the Secret Service came to collect him.
"Pence clearly knew what Trump might have had in store for him if he didn’t overturn the results of the 2020 Presidential election as Trump had demanded. “It’s anybody’s guess what could have happened — martial law, civil war. You know, the beginning of authoritarianism,” Rep. Raskin said, speculating on what might have unfolded if the plan was successful. “I want people to pay attention to what’s going on here, because that’s as close to fascism as I ever want my country to come to." (HillReporter, April 23, 2022)
Pence did not want to be seen leaving. The optics of him not being there, And the actuality of him being there, are important. It is your own spin that you think he had concern about what Donald Trump had in store for him.
gimmethesimplelife
6-23-22, 10:22am
I've got to say that I really resent the Texas GOP. They are making an already polarized country more unstable. With this talk of secession - and who in their right mind would flee to Texas to become part of a new Texas nation? Human life won't likely be worth Medicare or SS there - what would be in it for you?
And I really resent the line about Abnormal lifestyle choice. I need my bills paid by anyone who would judge me just to justify being judged in.the first place.
Thankfully I have no need to add show my face in the cesspool of Texas anytime.soon if ever.
Rob
Pence did not want to be seen leaving. The optics of him not being there, And the actuality of him being there, are important. It is your own spin that you think he had concern about what Donald Trump had in store for him.
Not my spin; I wasn't there. From Only I Can Fix It (Carol Leonnig and Philip Rucker)
Speaking about the threats to Pence on Jan. 6 and the chants by rioters to hang him, Raskin said the vice president's Secret Service agents — including one who was carrying the nuclear football — ran down to an undisclosed place in the Capitol. Those agents, who Raskin said he suspects were reporting to Trump’s Secret Service agents, were trying to whisk Pence away from the Capitol. Pence then "uttered what I think are the six most chilling words of this entire thing I've seen so far: 'I'm not getting in that car,'" Raskin said. "He knew exactly what this inside coup they had planned for was going to do," Raskin said.
gimmethesimplelife
6-23-22, 10:25am
Forgot to add - I promised my family in Austria I would not enter Texas until it's safe again, if ever. My family is worried specifically about secession - they have not featured the rest of the Texas GOP's insanity in the Austrian media.
Rob
You characterize an armed mob, constructing a gallows, breaking into the capital and coming within 40 feet of the target, the vice president of the United States, with the intention to murder him, "buffoonery"? You think that the hearings are because the democratic party is desperate for a distraction?
Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?
I think some dumb people did some dumb things that day, and some bad people did some bad things. I think criminal actions merit a law enforcement response. But I don’t think the republic was at serious risk of collapse.
I wouldn’t particularly mind seeing DJT eating prison food, but I also think trying to keep fear alive is a desperation move by a party staring down an electoral catastrophe.
Isn't the logical result of Federalism that we'll have fifty states all going their own way? Like the South can reinstate Jim Crow--if not outright slavery--and the Southwest can consider joining Mexico?
Isn't the logical result of Federalism that we'll have fifty states all going their own way? Like the South can reinstate Jim Crow--if not outright slavery--and the Southwest can consider joining Mexico?
I think it means states can go their own way so long as they don’t violate the rules they agreed to when they ratified the constitution. I don’t think we require an all-powerful central government fine-tuning our lives for us as the only alternative to chaos.
I think it means states can go their own way so long as they don’t violate the rules they agreed to when they ratified the constitution.
I think that was the whole point of the US Constitution in fact.
I don’t think we require an all-powerful central government fine-tuning our lives for us as the only alternative to chaos.
There seems to be a desire by some to treat states as simply quaint lines on a map, but clearly administrative districts incapable of dealing with their own affairs.
https://www.co.lincoln.or.us/sites/default/files/imageattachments/emergencymanagement/page/16141/cre22.png
I think it means states can go their own way so long as they don’t violate the rules they agreed to when they ratified the constitution. I don’t think we require an all-powerful central government fine-tuning our lives for us as the only alternative to chaos.
Slavery was legal when the Constitution was ratified; huge cohorts of people were disenfranchised, etc.
Slavery was legal when the Constitution was ratified; huge cohorts of people were disenfranchised, etc.
And then, as time moved along, we modified the Constitution, using the provisions previously-agreed-upon.
And then, as time moved along, we modified the Constitution, using the provisions previously-agreed-upon.
I'd like to believe it is "a living document."
I'd like to believe it is "a living document."
Well, it contains within it the directions for modifying it, so, yes, of course it is.
It does not contain however any text suggesting "if you don't like what this says, you can just make up random stuff and run with it".
Slavery was legal when the Constitution was ratified; huge cohorts of people were disenfranchised, etc.
That's because the Constitution didn't address slavery as that was considered a states issue until it became an issue the Federal Government could use to punish the southern states. And even then the Emancipation Proclamation only applied to those states the Feds deemed to be "in rebellion".
I'm not sure why our Juneteenth celebrations are based upon the abolition of slavery in Texas when slavery was still legal in northern states such as New Jersey for an additional year or so afterwards. I can only surmise it's part of an ongoing effort to demean the south.
I think that was the whole point of the US Constitution in fact.
There seems to be a desire by some to treat states as simply quaint lines on a map, but clearly administrative districts incapable of dealing with their own affairs.
https://www.co.lincoln.or.us/sites/default/files/imageattachments/emergencymanagement/page/16141/cre22.png
What I like about the constitution is that it devotes so much space to what the federal government can’t do, and the various checks it puts on various players to prevent the exercise of arbitrary power.
What I like about the constitution is that it devotes so much space to what the federal government can’t do, and the various checks it puts on various players to prevent the exercise of arbitrary power.
But, at the end of the day, it's only a piece of paper, and people have to have a shared desire to live by it.
But, at the end of the day, it's only a piece of paper, and people have to have a shared desire to live by it.
I think that by and large they do. The internet and much of the media give a disproportionate voice to the crazier outliers. One might feel that there are millions seething over Roe or guns or fraudulent voters or rigged elections based on what we hear, but that’s not what I get from regular, unaugmented people.
That's because the Constitution didn't address slavery as that was considered a states issue until it became an issue the Federal Government could use to punish the southern states. ...
So should it still be a states' rights issue, in your opinion?
And the federal government only stepped in to "punish" the South? Not because the ownership of people is an abomination?
So should it still be a states' rights issue, in your opinion?
And the federal government only stepped in to "punish" the South? Not because the ownership of people is an abomination?It started as an economic issue, the south was becoming more prosperous than the north and the north was beginning to lose money from tariffs as southern ports began to take away their business. If the federal government had only had slavery in mind, the Emancipation Proclamation would have applied equally to all states rather than just the southern ones.
I guess you could say it's always been a states rights issue since the 13th Amendment required the states to ratify it. I believe New Jersey was the last state to ratify the amendment which is why slavery was only outlawed in that state in 1866, well after all the southern states were brought into line using unconstitutional means.
ApatheticNoMore
6-23-22, 1:53pm
I'm kind of okay with states having more power, but we need to somehow change the funding, but that's hard to do. Like states absolutely will never have more power, and it's silly to pretend they do, when I'm paying more than twice in federal taxes than state taxes, and the federal taxes do not directly trickle back to the states and the states don't have money issuing power really either. So financially the federal government is far more important than the states due to this, it's just a reality. And there is no easy fix, but federal government money trickling back to the states to administer might work. So anyway, I don't think it's much use to pretend states are more powerful than they are.
The states also need to be subject to democratic (small d) rule but that is another although related discussion. But if they are gerrymandered beyond all democratic accountability then they would just be little dictatorships.
Or as they have been called laboratories in autocracy: https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-the-american-states-are-now-laboratories-of-autocracy-20211105-ewemlzl6ijazfpzskzuz7mhfb4-story.html
Canada seems to do federalism right. I mean their provinces seem highly functional. The U.S. doesn't really seem to do federalism right at all. Maybe our states are just too small. Although in population size some are, some aren't.
I believe New Jersey was the last state to ratify the amendment which is why slavery was only outlawed in that state in 1866, well after all the southern states were brought into line using unconstitutional means.
)
Nope....A Southern state--Mississippi was the last. Texas ratified it 4 years after NJ: (NJ 1866; TX 1870)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitu tion
)
Nope....A Southern state--Mississippi was the last. Texas ratified it 4 years after NJ: (NJ 1866; TX 1870)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitu tionThat is technically true, although slavery was essentially outlawed by Federal force in both Texas and Mississippi by the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863. I believe the last slaves in the south were freed when federal forces gained control of Texas in 1865 while the last slaves in the north were not freed until New Jersey freed them by amending their state constitution at the same time they voted to ratify the 13th Amendment in 1866.
I did mis-speak when declaring New Jersey as the last state to ratify, I should have said it was the last state to free slaves. Thanks for pointing that out.
frugal-one
6-23-22, 9:12pm
The US President is not responsible for security at the US capital. Trump had no authority to “authorize a response”; which I think is a good thing that there was no Praetorian Guard to add to the mix.
trump galvanized the thugs to the capital so he should have stopped it.
frugal-one
6-23-22, 9:16pm
I think some dumb people did some dumb things that day, and some bad people did some bad things. I think criminal actions merit a law enforcement response. But I don’t think the republic was at serious risk of collapse.
I wouldn’t particularly mind seeing DJT eating prison food, but I also think trying to keep fear alive is a desperation move by a party staring down an electoral catastrophe.
Are you watching the hearings? You, obviously, have blinders on.
frugal-one
6-23-22, 9:20pm
I think that by and large they do. The internet and much of the media give a disproportionate voice to the crazier outliers. One might feel that there are millions seething over Roe or guns or fraudulent voters or rigged elections based on what we hear, but that’s not what I get from regular, unaugmented people.
Haven't you seen the protests all over the country? Sheesh.
Pence did not want to be seen leaving. The optics of him not being there, And the actuality of him being there, are important. It is your own spin that you think he had concern about what Donald Trump had in store for him.
Pence more than didn’t want to be seen leaving. He was well aware of the trump traitors’ plans and well aware that he had refused to participate in them. He didn’t want to leave because he knew they would not bring him back and then simply stick whoever they could get up there in front of congress to pretend to be in charge and then not accept the electoral college vote.
Trump wasn’t going to kill him. Just steamroll him into irrelevance in his absence while the traitors tossed our government aside.
But sure, keep voting Republican because your effing taxes will be lower and people can more easily get guns. Priorities!
[/B]
Haven't you seen the protests all over the country? Sheesh.
One frantic zealot gets more coverage than thousands of normals.
iris lilies
6-24-22, 11:41am
Pence more than didn’t want to be seen leaving. He was well aware of the trump traitors’ plans and well aware that he had refused to participate in them. He didn’t want to leave because he knew they would not bring him back and then simply stick whoever they could get up there in front of congress to pretend to be in charge and then not accept the electoral college vote.
Trump wasn’t going to kill him. Just steamroll him into irrelevance in his absence while the traitors tossed our government aside.
But sure, keep voting Republican because your effing taxes will be lower and people can more easily get guns. Priorities!
Perhaps, I don’t know what was in Mike Pence’s brain as you apparently do. He probably had several ideas about why he didn’t wish to leave. It’s just good that he did not leave.
gimmethesimplelife
6-24-22, 1:21pm
Voting Republican likely will lead to a brain drain for the US as talented young people take their skills and energy to better countries - for a young professional now, would not remaining in the US tarnish their brand?
Rob
Voting Republican likely will lead to a brain drain for the US as talented young people take their skills and energy to better countries - for a young professional now, would not remaining in the US tarnish their brand?
Rob
My daughter is finishing up her Ph.D. this month at Cambridge. She will almost certainly not be returning to the USA. I may go join her at some point once my elderly parents pass away. I've already "packed my two bags" in the sense that I have housing and assets secured over there.
My daughter is finishing up her Ph.D. this month at Cambridge. She will almost certainly not be returning to the USA. I may go join her at some point once my elderly parents pass away. I've already "packed my two bags" in the sense that I have housing and assets secured over there.
I counsel the young people I know to be prepared to emigrate as our rights continue to erode, but to continue to vote in the meantime.
frugal-one
6-24-22, 3:19pm
One frantic zealot gets more coverage than thousands of normals.
What planet are you from?
gimmethesimplelife
6-24-22, 4:05pm
I counsel the young people I know to be prepared to emigrate as our rights continue to erode, but to continue to vote in the meantime.Thank You, Jane. Rob
What planet are you from?
The planet that's never heard of the First Amendment, apparently.
He makes me think of the Simpson's Superintendent Chalmers' observation "Good lord, the rod up that man's butt must have a rod up its butt."
frugal-one
6-24-22, 4:39pm
Disgusting turn of events... time to protest! I have never protested in my life but the TIME HAS COME!
https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-health-government-and-politics-marriage-a0cee537c6f9f10d29fa71f6e7a4d19d
gimmethesimplelife
6-24-22, 4:49pm
Disgusting turn of events... time to protest! I have never protested in my life but the TIME HAS COME!
https://apnews.com/article/abortion-us-supreme-court-health-government-and-politics-marriage-a0cee537c6f9f10d29fa71f6e7a4d19dGood for you!!! Rob
frugal-one
6-24-22, 5:32pm
Not good for me Rob! Disgusted by these fascist republicans and lying bastards put in the supreme court by trump. Such strong language has never been uttered from my mouth. If an old biddy like me feels this way, imagine what the streets are going to be like in the days to come?
gimmethesimplelife
6-24-22, 5:59pm
Not good for me Rob! Disgusted by these fascist republicans and lying bastards put in the supreme court by trump. Such strong language has never been uttered from my mouth. If an old biddy like me feels this way, imagine what the streets are going to be like in the days to come?Fair enough. And I agree with your comment about the streets in the upcoming days. And I merely meant to say something supportive regarding your willingness to protest in regards to what's gone down here. Rob
Not good for me Rob! Disgusted by these fascist republicans and lying bastards put in the supreme court by trump. Such strong language has never been uttered from my mouth. If an old biddy like me feels this way, imagine what the streets are going to be like in the days to come?
More rabble for LDAHL to look down his nose at. Just like BLM marchers who were tired of their friends and relatives being targeted, harassed, and killed by out-of-control police officers, women have had it with being oppressed and patronized.
A woman I used to work with marched for the first time at the Woman's March in 2017, at 60-something. My protest days are over--at least in person--but I'll continue to pay attention and contribute in other ways. I hope this galvanizes a too-complacent public to act.
I'm too old and feeble to move. Chalk it up to "I regret."
I'm not sure what marching in the streets will accomplish in this case. How will this produce the desired change?
I'm not sure what marching in the streets will accomplish in this case. How will this produce the desired change?
I think it's a way to illustrate that there are thousands of people riled up, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. People angry enough to take to the streets will likely work for change in other ways. On the other hand, Republicans demanding their due can just wave their money. ;)
women have had it with being oppressed and patronized.
I saw a doctor being interviewed on the local NBC affiliate on the decision and she kept referring to birthing persons.
Women have nothing now - not our own swimming trophies, not even pregnancy as an issue.
Yes we are oppressed and patronized.
ApatheticNoMore
6-24-22, 8:10pm
I think it's a way to illustrate that there are thousands of people riled up
that's generally all protest ever does, if one knows that going in, so much the better.
Maybe it will be a push back against the court passing yet more draconian laws (I mean probably not, but possibly so)
I saw a doctor being interviewed on the local NBC affiliate on the decision and she kept referring to birthing persons.
Women have nothing now - not our own swimming trophies, not even pregnancy as an issue.
Yes we are oppressed and patronized.
I think you just inadvertently identified one of the odd , unfortunate potential consequences. A trans man who has sex with men who unintentionally ends up pregnant and is forced to carry to term. I can only imagine the emotional discord of being forced with threat of violence by the government that someone in that situation would feel.
ApatheticNoMore
6-24-22, 8:18pm
I think you just inadvertently identified one of the odd , unfortunate potential consequences. A trans man who has sex with men who unintentionally ends up pregnant and is forced to carry to term. I can only imagine the emotional discord of being forced with threat of violence by the government that someone in that situation would feel.
equivalent to that of a cis woman in the same situation right?
frugal-one
6-24-22, 8:30pm
I'm not sure what marching in the streets will accomplish in this case. How will this produce the desired change?
I used to think this way too. I have NEVER been so disgusted or inclined to act. It is a way to show MAJOR malcontent and, perhaps, show the dumbass republicans how many people will vote against them going forward.
frugal-one
6-24-22, 8:41pm
Interestingly, Warren Buffett is making a stand too!
https://link.cnbc.com/public/28176018
equivalent to that of a cis woman in the same situation right?
Absolutely. And only mentioned because I assume that most cis straight people wouldn’t even think of it. Heck, as a non straight cis person I didn’t even think of it until jeppy helpfully pointed it out.
iris lilies
6-24-22, 11:22pm
I'm not sure what marching in the streets will accomplish in this case. How will this produce the desired change?
Peaceful protests carried out legally are good for bringing attention to an issue, especially if they are enduring and if there are many many people involved. I’ve got nothing against it.
Peaceful protests carried out legally are good for bringing attention to an issue, especially if they are enduring and if there are many many people involved. I’ve got nothing against it.
The theory being that people are unaware of this issue, and this will somehow get more involved?
iris lilies
6-24-22, 11:56pm
The theory being that people are unaware of this issue, and this will somehow get more involved?
Sure, protesting brings awareness to others who may not quite know about it, or may not think it’s that important until they see people turn out in the street, driving by crowds that are protesting, etc. Also it builds resolve for protestors out on the street, and it shows politicians what is up with their constituents.
Protesting can be a fun, free, teambuilding activity.
frugal-one
6-29-22, 8:12pm
Hopefully, after yesterday's hearing, trump and "fellow" republicans will be prosecuted/held accountable for their actions. As Rob would say, "I will go out to celebrate."
gimmethesimplelife
6-29-22, 10:00pm
Hopefully, after yesterday's hearing, trump and "fellow" republicans will be prosecuted/held accountable for their actions. As Rob would say, "I will go out to celebrate."Not only would I celebrate but I have several upscale outfits to choose from now, all bought dirt cheap at the sold by weight Goodwill in Nogales, Arizona. I'm 100 percent ready apparel-wise, lol. Rob
Not only would I celebrate but I have several upscale outfits to choose from now, all bought dirt cheap at the sold by weight Goodwill in Nogales, Arizona. I'm 100 percent ready apparel-wise, lol. Rob
I'm going to wear my Antarctic expedition wear, because I think it'll be a very very cold day in Hell before they face any real consequences. Alas.
Good news is I already have all the gear. (Covid put the kabosh on my planned job at McMurdo, alas again, but I had the clothing all sorted :-) )
frugal-one
6-30-22, 6:51am
I'm going to wear my Antarctic expedition wear, because I think it'll be a very very cold day in Hell before they face any real consequences. Alas.
Good news is I already have all the gear. (Covid put the kabosh on my planned job at McMurdo, alas again, but I had the clothing all sorted :-) )
Sad if a coup attempt goes unpunished. Doesn’t bode well for our future.
Why not to vote Republican--because they have let a Mafia boss take over their party, and co-opt it for domestic terrorism.
gimmethesimplelife
6-30-22, 11:12am
Why not to vote Republican--because they have let a Mafia boss take over their party, and co-opt it for domestic terrorism.Thank You, Tybee. I could not say this any better myself.
Rob
gimmethesimplelife
6-30-22, 11:14am
Sad if a coup attempt goes unpunished. Doesn’t bode well for our future.Thank You! I could not agree more - but it will push a scattered few to start over elsewhere, so there's that as an upside.
Rob
frugal-one
6-30-22, 1:41pm
It will be nearly impossible for many to start over elsewhere based on a number of factors... cost, language and barriers to entry... to name a few. Personally, I will be checking Ecuador. There are expat enclaves, good medical care, use the US dollar and easy to travel back to the US, if needed. Need to check the eligibility requirements, as well as, how much more expensive it has gotten since the last time I checked. It may no longe be feasible.
gimmethesimplelife
6-30-22, 6:36pm
It will be nearly impossible for many to start over elsewhere based on a number of factors... cost, language and barriers to entry... to name a few. Personally, I will be checking Ecuador. There are expat enclaves, good medical care, use the US dollar and easy to travel back to the US, if needed. Need to check the eligibility requirements, as well as, how much more expensive it has gotten since the last time I checked. It may no longe be feasible.Ecuador is on our radar, too - and yes it's still cheap and health care in the cities is high quality and without cost terror as in the United States. I would live there, personally, but it is not my first choice.
Rob
If enough of the right people leave I might not have to worry about mask mandates coming back.
ApatheticNoMore
6-30-22, 10:28pm
I don't even know how I'd make a living in a whole new country. So I don't think it's happening. I mean that's pretty much as basic as it gets. It's hard enough to make a living in this country.
By the by I do idly think where I could get in, maybe Israel (right of return), maybe Denmark (partner's mom is a citizen). But is either really particularly practical?
Heard today trump is going to announce his bid for 2024. The word is this would make it harder to convict him of his crimes. I don't understand why though?
Heard today trump is going to announce his bid for 2024. The word is this would make it harder to convict him of his crimes. I don't understand why though?
Political pressure for prosecutors not to interfere in an election.
And remember, all it takes to prevent a conviction is a single Trump-reality member of the jury.
Political pressure for prosecutors not to interfere in an election.
And remember, all it takes to prevent a conviction is a single Trump-reality member of the jury.
And, we saw the lying republicans who got into the supreme court… showing how it is done!
gimmethesimplelife
7-6-22, 10:59am
If God forbd Trump does get in again - and given that we are talking of the United States here I can totally see this happening - maybe there is an upside. Trump and his henchsupporers definitely DO put more pressure on this country to split apart. I need to try and remember that - thinking in terms of the long game and an inevitable split up of the Non United States.
Maybe it's gone so beyond repair that we are better off under Trump due to his quickening the timeline for split up? Food for thought. Rob
Mother Jones published an article about the Republican manifesto outlined in a 122 page brief (erroneously?) called "Blue Print to Save America" by the Republican Study Committee. They claim that 75% of Republican House lawmakers are on this committee. It is the policies they will likely pursue if they regain the Senate and/or possibly the presidency. Everything you might guess. Reduce taxes but increase military sending. Raise the age for Social Security benefits, replace the AFCA, develop fossil fuel production and hamstring the EPA and other climate change initiatives, plus every other conservative platform you might suspect including gay rights, abortion, etc. I was able to browse through it fairly easily, but not the details.
https://banks.house.gov/uploadedfiles/fy23_budget_final_copy.pdf
gimmethesimplelife
7-7-22, 1:21pm
Mother Jones published an article about the Republican manifesto outlined in a 122 page brief (erroneously?) called "Blue Print to Save America" by the Republican Study Committee. They claim that 75% of Republican House lawmakers are on this committee. It is the policies they will likely pursue if they regain the Senate and/or possibly the presidency. Everything you might guess. Reduce taxes but increase military sending. Raise the age for Social Security benefits, replace the AFCA, develop fossil fuel production and hamstring the EPA and other climate change initiatives, plus every other conservative platform you might suspect including gay rights, abortion, etc. I was able to browse through it fairly easily, but not the details.
https://banks.house.gov/uploadedfiles/fy23_budget_final_copy.pdfI looked at this as much as I could on a work break with constant interruptions. Scary. Especially climate change denial. At least this may speed this country's split up. Rob
I looked at this as much as I could on a work break with constant interruptions. Scary. Especially climate change denial. At least this may speed this country's split up. Rob
What does "splitting up" look like to you?
ApatheticNoMore
7-7-22, 4:51pm
The problem is there are few good answers at this point. The status quo is just living under long term extremist minority rule, that maintains it's minority rule by subverting democratic accountability, no matter how completely it's agenda is opposed by public opinion. Basically democratic change is being made impossible.
I don't believe that things getting worse will make things better (accelerationism), it just generally makes things worse. But the Supreme Court is increasingly ruling the federal government is illegitimate, those who actually want to have a government (anarchists need not apply I suppose, but I doubt they really approve of this either), might look for such in regional alliances between states or whatever. Most states are just not well equipped to be a full government on their own.
The problem is there are few good answers at this point. The status quo is just living under long term extremist minority rule, that maintains it's minority rule by subverting democratic accountability, no matter how completely it's agenda is opposed by public opinion. Basically democratic change is being made impossible.
I don't believe that things getting worse will make things better (accelerationism), it just generally makes things worse. But the Supreme Court is increasingly ruling the federal government is illegitimate, those who actually want to have a government (anarchists need not apply I suppose, but I doubt they really approve of this either), might look for such in regional alliances between states or whatever. Most states are just not well equipped to be a full government on their own.
I'll be watching how these regional alliances work. It looks like the three Pacific coastal states are standing together at this point.
early morning
7-7-22, 5:02pm
I actually think of the country splitting with dread (partition of India, etc. as food for thought). We would most likely be in a quasi-to-total Gilead wanna-be, here in Ohio. We don't really have the means to move to a bluer state at present, although, honestly, we're kicking around worst-case ideas. We are in our mid-60s, with two adult children who are very underemployed, and I have 2 much older siblings (79 & 81), neither with kids/other family here, though the oldest is married. So there's that to factor in. Frankly, I'm really concerned about our future. I seem to have misplaced my pair of LDAHL's rose-colored glasses. . .
I actually think of the country splitting with dread (partition of India, etc. as food for thought). We would most likely be in a quasi-to-total Gilead wanna-be, here in Ohio. We don't really have the means to move to a bluer state at present, although, honestly, we're kicking around worst-case ideas. We are in our mid-60s, with two adult children who are very underemployed, and I have 2 much older siblings (79 & 81), neither with kids/other family here, though the oldest is married. So there's that to factor in. Frankly, I'm really concerned about our future. I seem to have misplaced my pair of LDAHL's rose-colored glasses. . .
Having recently read The Vortex I am glad Bangladesh was able to separate from Pakistan, though it's awful it took a war to get there.
gimmethesimplelife
7-8-22, 5:11pm
What does "splitting up" look like to you?Bae, as I've said before, I honestly don't know. What does Cascadia look like to you? .
Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-8-22, 5:13pm
One thing I am very grateful for - there is a somewhat affordable blue state right next door to me - New Mexico. Not everyone has this - red or blue close to them like I do. Rob
I actually think of the country splitting with dread (partition of India, etc. as food for thought). We would most likely be in a quasi-to-total Gilead wanna-be, here in Ohio. We don't really have the means to move to a bluer state at present, although, honestly, we're kicking around worst-case ideas. We are in our mid-60s, with two adult children who are very underemployed, and I have 2 much older siblings (79 & 81), neither with kids/other family here, though the oldest is married. So there's that to factor in. Frankly, I'm really concerned about our future. I seem to have misplaced my pair of LDAHL's rose-colored glasses. . .
I’m a cockeyed optimist who doesn’t see massive sentiment for the 55/45 states splitting off from the 45/55 states. Nor do I see budding fascist dictatorships or theocracies getting much traction in the real world either. Maybe I just don’t spend enough time in social media reality to see all the signs and portents.
I am not worried about the US splitting up, either, with a caveat. If Lincoln was able to hold the Union together despite wide cultural differences in the mid-1800s, we can do the same. As long as we have a leader like Lincoln.
I’m a cockeyed optimist who doesn’t see massive sentiment for the 55/45 states splitting off from the 45/55 states. Nor do I see budding fascist dictatorships or theocracies getting much traction in the real world either. Maybe I just don’t spend enough time in social media reality to see all the signs and portents.
You need to wake up ... What do you think Jan 6th was about?... fascism for sure. What about the trump supreme court justices who said they would not repeal Roe and did it anyway? Not hard to fathom that was a religious opinion for at least the handmaiden (and probably the others). Yeah, both fascist dictatorship and theocracy.
You need to wake up ... What do you think Jan 6th was about?... fascism for sure. What about the trump supreme court justices who said they would not repeal Roe and did it anyway?Why do you think Democratic Senators have been asking that question during confirmation hearings for the past 30 years? It's because they all know it didn't meet constitutional muster. What you should be asking is why the liberal justices, knowing Roe was damaged, didn't concur with the majority.
Not hard to fathom that was a religious opinion for at least the handmaiden (and probably the others). Yeah, both fascist dictatorship and theocracy. I think you should put a little more effort into your 'fathoming'.
I am not worried about the US splitting up, either, with a caveat. If Lincoln was able to hold the Union together despite wide cultural differences in the mid-1800s, we can do the same. As long as we have a leader like Lincoln.
As I recall, Lincoln did not in fact hold the Union together. The country split, there was a rather violent civil war, cities were burned, and hundreds of thousands of people died.
iris lilies
7-9-22, 5:19pm
As I recall, Lincoln did not in fact hold the Union together. The country split, there was a rather violent civil war, cities were burned, and hundreds of thousands of people died.
Why do I get the impression that Rob salivates for this kind of activity?
Czechoslovakia split into the Czech Republic and the Slovak Republic peacefully.
Czechoslovakia split into the Czech Republic and the Slovak Republic peacefully.
Our 19th Century split would have been peaceful as well if the north hadn't invaded the south.
gimmethesimplelife
7-9-22, 6:12pm
Why do I get the impression that Rob salivates for this kind of activity?Your impression us very much incorrect. I'm just a hard core realist is all. And I do believe long term the US is better served splitting up. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-9-22, 6:13pm
Should have been is very much incorrect.
Teacher Terry
7-9-22, 6:54pm
I don’t think it’s in this country’s best interest to split and don’t believe it will happen.
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