Quote Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
My experiences with the Amish are extremely limited, but one in particular stands out. My Dad (the consummate cattle rancher from Nebraska) and I had the opportunity to spend a day with an Amish farmer in Ohio many years ago. My Dad was very politically active and very environmentally conscious. His dissertation, in 1952, dealt with his concerns regarding the use of chemicals in 'modern' farming and he eventually became quite well known in agricultural politics on a national level. Anyway, during the day in Amish country I have rarely seen two men so engaged by what the other had to say. Both men were talking well above my head at the time, but it was obvious the Amish farmer had no shortage of knowledge of nematodes, microorganisms, spores or any of the myriad other things that effect livestock and crops. That gentleman was also extremely aware of the shift taking place (in the late 1960's) regarding public policy and industrial agriculture.

I have no idea how that farmer acquired his knowledge, but he had it. It may be way off base, but from that single encounter I have always assumed that it was acceptable, in the Amish culture, to gain knowledge from other parts of the world and from there it was basically a matter of filtering it down to find what aligned with their values when deciding what to put to use. If that is true I would view that as extremely enlightened rather than backwards. To those with firsthand knowledge of that culture: is that close?
You too Gregg? Show me! SHOW ME where I said they were backwards! Do it now, cause I'm getting pretty tired of being accused of saying something I didn't say. So go ahead, do it. Show me. You're supposed to be helper, well help. SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THEY WERE BACKWARDS, STUPID AND LAZY!

You know gregg, I've read lots of your posts and I didn't think you were illiterate and unable to read. To those of you who know him, is that true?

I would expect a farmer to know about farming. That's his business. Pretty much the only business along with related 'business' , fixing the farm equipment, animal husbandry, carpentry. think the girls know all that? Or maybe just 'girl' things like cooking and sewing, and milking.

You are all so anxious to present these folks as worldly and forward thinking, and hip and savvy, and connected, hell, we should all drop out of school at 13 and stay right in our own communities. Apparently we will learn all we need to know to function...in that community. How far would that have gotten you gregg? How far would that have gotten you bae? Do you think those good Amish parents are teaching their kids about geometry and algebra and computer science and computer chips and marketing and evolution and molecular biology, and physics, electrical repair and computer languages, or any foreign language besides english, or programming, or all the other bits of education you all take advantage of knowing and using.

It's a particular sort of arrogance that takes all the advantage of a modern 21st century education and experience but argues for keeping a certain segment away from this because, I don't know, we don't think they deserve it. Or we like driving into the country and buying milk from them, or quilts.

Which brings us back to my original point, which for the life of me I don't know why I'm being damned on.
I think it's sad that Amish kids have less opportunity in THIS MODERN WORLD than your kids or my kids. I may not know 'hundreds' of Amish, but I do know kids, and I'm not so arrogant as to think Amish kids are any less intelligent, curious, or excited by the world all around them. But when your family doesn't value education beyond reading, writing, and arithmetic (13) it's hard to rise above that. Sure there is continuing education, in home skills and farming skills, but that's pretty narrow, and the bigger (smaller) and faster the world grows all around them, the more these bright, curious kids will be forced to choose between home/family/church and 'the world'. I know y'all keep saying it's a choice these kids can make, but it's not a fully informed choice, is it, or there wouldn't be any backlash to not choosing it. And there would be better preparation towards making that choice. i.e. school past 8th grade. Heck, why not send them off to live with an english family for 6 months or a year. Then it would truly be an informed choice. I would certainly admire something like that.

Now how am I derisive or ignorant in saying that? How is it condescending to say I think these bright kids deserve every opportunity my kids, your kids, Appalachia kids, all kids deserve, without condemnation from their community. So, maybe they aren't 'fully shunned' (zoe's words)... How lovely.