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More evidence that vaccines work - 99.75% of the people hospitalized in Ohio this year for covid were not vaccinated:
https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/its-time-to-end-the-health-orders-ohio-to-lift-mask-mandate-on-june-2/
This is from the highly respected Cleveland Clinic.
No wonder they are lifting their mask mandate. Anti-vaxxers should not be able to block the rest of us from living normal maskless lives.
And here is a good editorial about being honest about vaccinated people and masks:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/pressure-builds-cdc-update-indoor-mask-requirements-vaccinated/story?id=77601842
See especially the second paragraph - if vaccinated not only do you not get sick, but you don't transmit the virus either. It's that simple.
My governor was on a conference call with Biden lapping up praise. He had a disastrous web rollout and tried to force everyone to go to mass vaccination sites. When he finally got out of the way and the process decentralized the people went for vaccines in droves. The people deserve the credit not the governor.
happystuff
5-13-21, 10:32am
Thank you, Gardnr and TT.
My thanks and prayers go out to the healthcare workers, first responders and all those still working for others through all of this. To be fighting no only the virus, but also the ignorance and stupidity of some people...
gimmethesimplelife
5-13-21, 10:46pm
What do you'all think regarding the latest CDC mask guidance? I'n really not sure it's appropriate. Rob
What do you'all think regarding the latest CDC mask guidance? I'n really not sure it's appropriate. Rob
I live in one of the most vaccine accepting parts of the country and there are walk in sites all over offering to shoot people. I assume vaccines are as readily available pretty much everywhere. Anyone worried about covid can make the choice between vaccinating and taking the risk of getting covid now. And since the latest studies now seem to show that vaccinated people not only protect themselves but others in most cases it seems reasonable.
All that said, areas where the disease is still happening significantly ought to continue to mask. But those are probably the same places (and the same individuals who don’t want the shot) where masks are being most strongly resisted anyway.
ApatheticNoMore
5-14-21, 2:17am
What do you'all think regarding the latest CDC mask guidance? I'n really not sure it's appropriate.
yea it's inappropriate when less than half the country is vaccinated with even one dose (I don't doubt it's narrowly true about vaccinated people just that's individual health not public health). No we maybe can not make people get vaccinated, but it's such a low bar we quit at, is that really the best we can do, oh well low standards these days.
everywhere I go, masks are still required, even in New Hampshire, which supposedly removed the mask mandate.
yea it's inappropriate when less than half the country is vaccinated with even one dose (I don't doubt it's narrowly true about vaccinated people just that's individual health not public health). No we maybe can not make people get vaccinated, but it's such a low bar we quit at, is that really the best we can do, oh well low standards these days.
Well, the antivaxxers aren't coming in. My vacc site can take 900/day or 1100 if we add 2 hours. Yesterday? 200 appts. We added 115 kids 12-15y because of the release this week!
And this is just one site. Every vacc site is experiencing the same in a very RED state. Just sayin'.
Masks were mostly to protect other people from the wearer of the mask potentially being infected. Vaccinations, on the other hand, primarily protect the person who has been vaccinated. Mandating masks when other people around them had no other way to protect themselves (other than staying home of course) made sense. Now that everyone 12 and older has a way to protect themselves readily available to them the mask mandates are no longer necessary. The only people significantly at risk from covid now are those that choose not to be vaccinated and the small percentage of the population who can't be vaccinated due to diseases like lupus or for whom vaccines simply don't work for some reason.
I am going to remain cautious. I was vaccinated in January. However, my small community on a typical year has > 1 million tourists from all over the planet wandering around among our population of 5000 people, most of them during these summer months. They are coming in record numbers, as they did last year when we were shut down to non-essential travel.
I wore an N95 mask last year, and will continue to do so this year in any non-socially-distanced settings, until I see how the situation settles out. I'm wearing the mask to protect myself, and those I live with, as I don't want to bring something home to them.
Well, the antivaxxers aren't coming in.
Same here, and this is the bluest county in a blue state. The percentage of the population not coming in is roughly the same percentage that voted for Trump in the County, which could just be a coincidence, but I also did not observe hardly any known-to-me GOP members during my 3 days at our large-scale vaccination events.
The head of our local GOP has refused to wear masks since this began, refuses to social distance, and has violated consistently the "stay out of the passenger cabin" rules for our ferry system, boldly marching up with her gaggle of unmasked friends and giving the deck crew hell.
So, good luck to them all.
Same here, and this is the bluest county in a blue state. The percentage of the population not coming in is roughly the same percentage that voted for Trump in the County, which could just be a coincidence, but I also did not observe hardly any known-to-me GOP members during my 3 days at our large-scale vaccination events.
The head of our local GOP has refused to wear masks since this began, refuses to social distance, and has violated consistently the "stay out of the passenger cabin" rules for our ferry system, boldly marching up with her gaggle of unmasked friends and giving the deck crew hell.
So, good luck to them all.
Perhaps it IS coincidence that the unvaccinated in your county equals the number of trump voters. But I had the same thought other day about my county. 14% voted for trump in 2020. 15% still have not received any shot. If the stats about republican voter hesitancy are true at 40% then I expect my county to ultimately reach 93-94% vaccinated.
ApatheticNoMore
5-14-21, 12:43pm
Supposedly only 27% of the population here voted Trump and that is of voters (Remember many don't vote, so it seems flawed to take percentage of voters as percentage of population).
And YET ... over 40% over 16 unvaccinated with even one shot. Maps are interesting, of course most vaccinated are middle to well off areas, tending to be more white and Asian. least vaccinated other than a few genuinely Trump areas, are poor black areas. Tell me again how that is about Trump? If that's vaccine hesitancy or refusal (rather than difficulty fitting vaccines into difficult lives which also seems plausible) the causes go a lot further back than Trump. Poor areas got the virus though, so there is always the fact that there may be a great deal of natural immunity. Vaccine uptake correlates with income of course, but less than virus spread inversely correlated with it. Are we sure we have done all the vaccine outreach we can to what get called under served communities before all rules are lifted. All due diligence and so on. An interesting data point is the over 80 were less vaccinated than those in their 70s. Wonder what is going on there, if anyone is still finding it hard to get a ride or something.
I think there’s another element to the mask thing. I think Walter Kirn was right when he said “As the masks go away, a lot of Americans are going to miss the ability to classify, shame and despise one another at first site.”
That being said, I do think there’s a significant correlation between being foolish enough to believe Trump and being foolish enough to refuse the vaccine.
I think there’s another element to the mask thing. I think Walter Kirn was right when he said “As the masks go away, a lot of Americans are going to miss the ability to classify, shame and despise one another at first site.”
.
You may be on to something. It seems similar to a friend who, when NY outlawed smoking in bars, commented that now it would be more difficult to figure out which of the other patrons were smokers and thus not someone he would be at all interested in potentially dating.
ApatheticNoMore
5-14-21, 3:52pm
Honestly other than outdoors which is an non-issue anyway, did anyone actually run into anyone without a mask. It seemed a total non-issue, people work masks. I suppose those working in customer facing jobs got some trouble. Of course I did get angry at jerks wearing gators rather than proper masks and then there were those not covering the nose, but gators were perfectly ok with public health as all they ever said was wear "face coverings", so fish rots from the head, as no useful information about type of "face covering" was ever given to those who weren't trying hard to figure it out for themselves.
I know of 3 people up here among my circle of liberal friends in a liberal state who are not getting their shots "yet." They are all in their 30s. I'm not sure what's that about--I think they distrust the vaccine because of its fast-track through the FDA, so they're waiting to see what happens to those of us who got them. If their parents' noses don't fall off, maybe they'll get them.
iris lilies
5-14-21, 5:34pm
I know of 3 people up here among my circle of liberal friends in a liberal state who are not getting their shots "yet." They are all in their 30s. I'm not sure what's that about--I think they distrust the vaccine because of its fast-track through the FDA, so they're waiting to see what happens to those of us who got them. If their parents' noses don't fall off, maybe they'll get them.
yes, DH has been observing me carefully to see if I am growing horns, a tail, another head, etc.He is in the “control group.”
rosarugosa
5-14-21, 5:58pm
I think it was a little too soon to declare masks off, since a lot of people are still in the process of getting vaccinated, and I think ANM makes a good point about whether we could do a little more with outreach efforts in poorer communities. For what it's worth, I am seeing no real difference in behavior in my neck of the woods. The only change in my own behavior is that I no longer put on my mask if I encounter someone while I'm out walking, but I do still try to keep my distance.
You may be on to something. It seems similar to a friend who, when NY outlawed smoking in bars, commented that now it would be more difficult to figure out which of the other patrons were smokers and thus not someone he would be at all interested in potentially dating.
I don’t suppose casually sniffing their hair for telltale aromas is tolerated anymore. And even that doesn’t detect STDs or psychological issues.
did anyone actually run into anyone without a mask
The only time I saw people unmasked was in a Home Depot or Lowe's. Almost always a male, contractor type.
I don’t suppose casually sniffing their hair for telltale aromas is tolerated anymore. And even that doesn’t detect STDs or psychological issues.
That could also work. And would probably be acceptable in most gay bars. The problem with that approach, though, is that it might be misconstrued as showing interest in the guy which would be awkward if the sniff test had in fact rendered them unsuitable for my friend as a potential date.
I don’t suppose casually sniffing their hair for telltale aromas is tolerated anymore. And even that doesn’t detect STDs or psychological issues.
Well Biden sniffed a woman's hair before kissing her on the head and he got elected president.
iris lilies
5-14-21, 7:39pm
Well Biden sniffed a woman's hair before kissing her on the head and he got elected president.
Yes I think that’s what this post is about. Obliquely about. You spoiled the subtlety by stating it openly.
Our president likes to sniff the hair of women.
Well Biden sniffed a woman's hair before kissing her on the head and he got elected president.
Perhaps if she’d been a smoker the kiss wouldn’t have happened.
Well Biden sniffed a woman's hair before kissing her on the head and he got elected president.
Well hell, at least he doesn't grab em by the pussy. >:( Or maybe you think that's far less invasive.
Well hell, at least he doesn't grab em by the pussy. >:( Or maybe you think that's far less invasive.
It’s a shame we only have one or two tepid trump supporters here at most. We won’t likely get their laughably pathetic ‘you’ve got TDS’ response.
It’s a shame we only have one or two tepid trump supporters here at most. We won’t likely get their laughably pathetic ‘you’ve got TDS’ response.
:~)
It’s a shame we only have one or two tepid trump supporters here at most. We won’t likely get their laughably pathetic ‘you’ve got TDS’ response.
Yes. So often you’ve had to make do with straw men.
It’s a shame we only have one or two tepid trump supporters here at most. We won’t likely get their laughably pathetic ‘you’ve got TDS’ response.
Perhaps Yoda will reward you by stopping in to say "The TDS is strong with you. A powerful TDS'er you have become!"
Perhaps Yoda will reward you by stopping in to say "The TDS is strong with you. A powerful TDS'er you have become!"
Speak for me you did! Prescient you are!
Some people call it TDS, others call it being horrified that he literally attempted to void the election and his party’s politicians still pretend to believe the big lie because they lack the balls to tell his supporters the truth.
Ldahl must surely be absolutely fuming that he refuses to go away quietly to be forgotten the way loser former presidents are supposed to.
iris lilies
5-16-21, 8:35am
Speak for me you did! Prescient you are!
Hilarious!
iris lilies
5-16-21, 8:37am
Some people call it TDS, others call it being horrified that he literally attempted to void the election and his party’s politicians still pretend to believe the big lie because they lack the balls to tell his supporters the truth.
Ldahl must surely be absolutely fuming that he refuses to go away quietly to be forgotten the way loser former presidents are supposed to.
JP I wonder why you see Trump everywhere? I don’t. I think life is pretty quiet these days without constant media hysteria.
JP I wonder why you see Trump everywhere? I don’t. I think life is pretty quiet these days without constant media hysteria.
He’s obviously still very much in charge of the Republican Party or Cheney would still have her leadership position.
JP I wonder why you see Trump everywhere? I don’t. I think life is pretty quiet these days without constant media hysteria.I heard recently that CNN's viewership went down nearly 50% after Biden took office. I think that the sudden media shift from 'Trump sucks' to 'Biden is great' left many people in a lurch.
ToomuchStuff
5-16-21, 9:24am
I heard recently that CNN's viewership went down nearly 50% after Biden took office. I think that the sudden media shift from 'Trump sucks' to 'Biden is great' left many people in a lurch.
People need something to complain about, AND.....
Kind of like newspapers, that take their readership into account, when charging advertising prices, right after giving away samples/free subscriptions, etc. CNN is not going to be happy with their advertising cuts.
iris lilies
5-16-21, 10:35am
I heard recently that CNN's viewership went down nearly 50% after Biden took office. I think that the sudden media shift from 'Trump sucks' to 'Biden is great' left many people in a lurch.
As a long time veteran of a snark site, I know that carping is more fun than spreading positive points. But at least we on the snark site own up to it being pure snark.
Ldahl must surely be absolutely fuming that he refuses to go away quietly to be forgotten the way loser former presidents are supposed to.
Me and Mitch McConnell.
I heard recently that CNN's viewership went down nearly 50% after Biden took office. I think that the sudden media shift from 'Trump sucks' to 'Biden is great' left many people in a lurch.
I watch less news these days because I have faith in the current administration's willingness to step up and do a good job. It's very relaxing not to have to worry about inhumanity at the southern border or the danger of the nuclear football in the hands of a madman, or whether or not we are shopping state secrets to Moscow.
Teacher Terry
5-16-21, 12:43pm
Jane, I watch the news less also now that we have a competent leader instead of a crazy guy as do my friends. Having our first nut job for president was stressful.
frugal-one
5-16-21, 3:24pm
Heard today trump is planning another rally. Would be very happy if it (and he) was not in the news at all!
Jane, I watch the news less also now that we have a competent leader instead of a crazy guy as do my friends. Having our first nut job for president was stressful.
If it was so stressful before, why did you watch it more then? I actually watch the news MORE now that we no longer have a one-trick pony in all the media outlets. I stopped watching CNN sometime in 2019. It makes me angry that so much air time was consumed on one issue. I'd rather watch our local news outlet reporting that there's a fish fry Saturday night, or so-and-so from somewhere caught a prize walleye and gave it to his housebound neighbor. Or that it's going to be sunny tomorrow. So much better than a portal into a partisan slingfest which is today's network news.
I felt I had to be vigilant and aware of the constant threats to democracy, personally.
I rarely watch local news; I keep up, sporadically, on-line.
I felt I had to be vigilant and aware of the constant threats to democracy, personally.
Does it bother you that they were selling you carefully crafted and marketed outrage? They still do but their material is much thinner now. I'll bet it's been hard for some to lose the focus of their daily fix after 5 years or so of constant hits. Cold turkey cleansing is tough.
I don't know how anyone could "package" the daily Trump-spew in a way that it wouldn't be appalling. And his "policies!" As has often been said, cruelty was the point in his administration.
Or are you trying to say he was just a misunderstood statesman? One who is still, six months after the fact, trying to whip up insurrection with his transparent lie that an election was stolen from him. Good for Liz Cheney for refusing to go along with it.
I hope he and his misguided sycophants will someday be considered just an ugly footnote to history, an aberration.
I’m not sure one needs to package the fact that 40ish% of Republican voters still don’t think the election was legitimate and that the Republican politicians are going along with that. I may be 4 or 8 years early with my concern but I have no confidence that if republicans control the house and the presidential election results aren’t in their favor that they will do the right thing and accept defeat.
Or are you trying to say he was just a misunderstood statesman? No, I thought he was an ass, one that gave the media a 4 year run of exaggeration and chest pounding. It was almost like satire, minus the wit and playfulness.
iris lilies
5-16-21, 6:07pm
No, I thought he was an ass, one that gave the media a 4 year run of exaggeration and chest pounding. It was almost like satire, minus the wit and playfulness.
Agreed!
The vigilance and constant threat I “feel” from the gubmnt is more about loss of freedoms than anything else although I am made uncomfortable by the Ruskies’ happiness seeing Americans at each others’ throats about politics these days. But this latter issue is small, the freedom thing is The Big Deal.
The federal government encroachment on our freedoms started strongly after 911 and subsequent big gubmnt actions regardless of administrations have not dialed that down. Trump, Obama, Bush, Biden—-they all like being our saviour.
And they are all wrong about that.
Teacher Terry
5-16-21, 9:54pm
Catherine, I had to watch because our democracy was threatened and I needed to know what was happening. I never felt that way about any other president.
happystuff
5-17-21, 10:52am
I think I've been at about the same level for the last 2-3 years with minor fluctuations here and there.
My state's mask mandate is sort of going away May 29th for vaccinated people - transportation, schools, daycare centers and health care settings will still require masks, and businesses can also require them.
Hooray! It is time to celebrate those of us who have survived. In these forums very few if any have lost a member of their immediate family to covid. Few report being hospitalized or having serious problems from covid.
I think of this as a war we waged, and just as we celebrated when other wars were over with ticker tape parades (despite war casualties), we should be happy. It does not mean we aren't sad some have died, but with Warp Speed vaccines it means we have won. Yes, someone could still die - think of Japanese soldiers holed up on remote islands who didn't know the war was over, and could fire on you if you approached them after hostilities ended in WW2 - but we won. We should be so happy!!!
Thank you for all your service on the front lines, Yppej.
Thank you for all your service on the front lines, Yppej.
You're welcome. Being an essential worker working on site (not remotely in my pajamas) throughout the pandemic has not always been easy for me, but I made it.
ApatheticNoMore
5-17-21, 4:10pm
Maybe the daily whining helped. Good for the heart, right.
Technically my bosses/company owners could have brought me in as an "essential worker" anytime, like my bfs "essential work" selling stuff to rich people pretty much. But my bosses took it all seriously and didn't. They didn't have to treat us well and care about our heath of course. But they did.
Catherine, I had to watch because our democracy was threatened and I needed to know what was happening. I never felt that way about any other president.
I hear you, but I just couldn't take the relentless onslaught. I have to say, I can't stand Chris Cuomo. Don Lemon, fine. Anderson Cooper Fine. Chris Cuomo is like nails on a blackboard. I'd rather read online newspapers, which I can click off of and which doesn't hammer my brain 24/7.
happystuff
5-18-21, 9:43am
My state's mask mandate is sort of going away May 29th for vaccinated people - transportation, schools, daycare centers and health care settings will still require masks, and businesses can also require them.
Hooray! It is time to celebrate those of us who have survived. In these forums very few if any have lost a member of their immediate family to covid. Few report being hospitalized or having serious problems from covid.
I think of this as a war we waged, and just as we celebrated when other wars were over with ticker tape parades (despite war casualties), we should be happy. It does not mean we aren't sad some have died, but with Warp Speed vaccines it means we have won. Yes, someone could still die - think of Japanese soldiers holed up on remote islands who didn't know the war was over, and could fire on you if you approached them after hostilities ended in WW2 - but we won. We should be so happy!!!
You can celebrate your "survivor selfishness" and twisted sense of "victory" over something that has devastated the entire planet and is NOT really over yet. I really do feel very, very sorry for you and your warped perception of the value of life.
You can celebrate your "survivor selfishness" and twisted sense of "victory" over something that has devastated the entire planet and is NOT really over yet. I really do feel very, very sorry for you and your warped perception of the value of life.
Reply in Selfish thread.
happystuff
5-18-21, 10:47am
Reply in Selfish thread.
>8)
I hear you, but I just couldn't take the relentless onslaught. I have to say, I can't stand Chris Cuomo. Don Lemon, fine. Anderson Cooper Fine. Chris Cuomo is like nails on a blackboard. I'd rather read online newspapers, which I can click off of and which doesn't hammer my brain 24/7.
I watch MSNBC. I've been a fan of Rachel Maddow since her Air America days (love her narrative historical lead-ups to current events), and enjoy all their talent, with the exception of Chuck Todd, who is no Edward R Murrow* (or Tim Russert, for that matter).
Fun fact: original name: Egbert Roscoe Murrow
Just got lunch at Subway. They have taken down the mask required sign so I didn’t wear it in. Employees all masked. Customers (about 10 in line) were about half and half. One masked woman was harassing the unmasked customers. I ignored her while I was getting my food. She started on me again as I was walking toward the door. I told her “my body, my choice” and she about lost it. She started following me and I suggested that she did not want to do that. She ended up not following me. A Subway employee was calling the cops as I left.
Tradd it's sad how some people are so stuck on masks. Masks didn't save us, vaccines did. Rates of infection often were similar between states with mask mandates and those without, but oh boy do vaccines make a difference. Rates are now really only high in anti-vax areas like Oregon.
ETA you may remember Oregon has also had measles outbreaks because they are an anti-vaxer hotspot.
Ummmm, Oregon is the 17th best state in percentage of fully vaxxed individuals.
Masks didn't save us, vaccines did. Rates of infection often were similar between states with mask mandates and those without, but oh boy do vaccines make a difference.
How hard must you look for bullshit "facts" like this? You just don't stop do you.>:(
Chicken lady
5-19-21, 7:55am
Maine - currently - one of the highest rates of vaccination. One of the highest rates of infection.
There is still plenty of covid to go around for the unmasked who would like to try breeding resistant strains in the convenience of their own bodies.
As I understand it, numerous factors enter into rates of infection and localities can do everything (at least everything controllable) right but still get worse results than areas blessed with more fortunate circumstances. The best that can be hoped for is seeking ways to decrease the probability of infection until herd immunity is reached. That’s why I think trying to view this disease through a red or blue political lens is spiteful and silly.
The vaccines are not 100% effective, so even a vaccinated person has a non-trivial chance of getting the disease from exposure to an infected person. If there’s a reasonable, however imperfect chance masks can help there then I don’t see what the problem is. But I also don’t see self-appointed enforcers or scofflaws making much difference.
Maine - currently - one of the highest rates of vaccination. One of the highest rates of infection.
There is still plenty of covid to go around for the unmasked who would like to try breeding resistant strains in the convenience of their own bodies.
I am living in Maine, in a very rural area, although I travel to the largest urban area weekly, and I can report we are also a high rate of mask-wearing, much higher than where I used to live, Michigan.
So whatever is going on in Maine, it is not because people are not wearing masks.
happystuff
5-19-21, 10:16am
Tradd it's sad how some people are so stuck on masks. Masks didn't save us, vaccines did. Rates of infection often were similar between states with mask mandates and those without, but oh boy do vaccines make a difference. Rates are now really only high in anti-vax areas like Oregon.
ETA you may remember Oregon has also had measles outbreaks because they are an anti-vaxer hotspot.
>8)
Tradd it's sad how some people are so stuck on masks. Masks didn't save us, vaccines did. Rates of infection often were similar between states with mask mandates and those without, but oh boy do vaccines make a difference. Rates are now really only high in anti-vax areas like Oregon.
ETA you may remember Oregon has also had measles outbreaks because they are an anti-vaxer hotspot.
>8)
A friend of mine works as a refrigerated truck/trailer mechanic (he works on the reefer units). He’s in a fairly large Midwestern city. He said all the restaurant supply houses have closed down. Only the grocery suppliers are left. He said the restaurants are going to hurt when they come back as they’re going to have to shop at the grocery store/Sam’s, etc. A few of the supply houses hung on until the fall, but then they closed. He said the repair business he works for has lost a ton of business. He’s very mechanically talented and has his own repair business for other things on the side.
Tradd, that is very concerning to read. Restaurants will be competing with local family shoppers for food supplies.
Tradd, that is very concerning to read. Restaurants will be competing with local family shoppers for food supplies.
Actually it was the prices the restaurants are going to be charging that he mentioned.
I would expect they would be shopping at the big warehouse stores for cheaper prices.
One of the main infectious disease docs at San Francisco General Hospital tweeted yesterday that for the first time since March 5, 2020 the hospital has zero covid patients.
The CDC is now saying unvaccinated children don't need to wear masks at social gatherings where adults are vaccinated because they are at such low risk from the disease. I wonder if this will sink in with those who continue to look for rare outliers of children sick with covid, and who deny that there is a correlation between age and getting, falling ill from, transmitting, and dying from covid. Kids should be freed of mask mandates at school too. Those who don't like that can continue homeschooling their children.
happystuff
5-27-21, 10:46am
The CDC is now saying unvaccinated children don't need to wear masks at social gatherings where adults are vaccinated because they are at such low risk from the disease. I wonder if this will sink in with those who continue to look for rare outliers of children sick with covid, and who deny that there is a correlation between age and getting, falling ill from, transmitting, and dying from covid. Kids should be freed of mask mandates at school too. Those who don't like that can continue homeschooling their children.
>8)
IL is down to something like a 2% positivity rate.
Chicago ended mandatory quarantine for anyone coming to the city from outside the state.
IL only had something like 8 deaths today.
Marin county (my county, just north of San Francisco over the Golden Gate Bridge) moved into California’s yellow tier today (the best tier in our four tier system) joining San Francisco county, Santa Clara county, San Mateo county and Santa Cruz county in the Bay Area. Average of 5 daily positives for the past seven days in a population of 250,000. Our county is also second highest in the state with 75% fully and 87% partially vaccinated.
I expect that when the state lifts all restrictions in two weeks everything will be fully open in these counties.
What was the response to a more catchy variant arising in India? Immediately stop flights from there a la post 9/11? No. It was delay and then finally stop noncitizens from flying in, but still allow citizens to travel back and forth from India. Now the Indian variant has spread throughout the country and is the dominant one in some states. The solution the government has come up with? Rename it the delta variant so people from India don't feel bad.
happystuff
6-21-21, 10:11am
Our county is also second highest in the state with 75% fully and 87% partially vaccinated.
It's nice to see that vaccinations are still rising - albeit still slowly in some areas. I just hope people understand that they can still catch and pass on the virus despite having been vaccinated. Yes, the vaccine makes you less likely to die or be sick enough to be hospitalized from COVID, but it doesn't prevent you or others from getting sick. There are getting to be quite a few variants to this virus out there, and I, personally, believe there is still a lot to be learned over the long haul.
Wishing continued safety and health to all.
What was the response to a more catchy variant arising in India? Immediately stop flights from there a la post 9/11? No. It was delay and then finally stop noncitizens from flying in, but still allow citizens to travel back and forth from India. Now the Indian variant has spread throughout the country and is the dominant one in some states. The solution the government has come up with? Rename it the delta variant so people from India don't feel bad.
It seems logical to assign neutral identifiers to variants as they arise. With luck, doing so will prevent a huge jump in violent morons assaulting people perceived to be Indian.
It seems logical to assign neutral identifiers to variants as they arise. With luck, doing so will prevent a huge jump in violent morons assaulting people perceived to be Indian.
Some folks on this forum have repeatedly made their views on people of other colors and cultures quite clear...
Good point, Jane, and by the way it swept through the nursing homes here, we're just lucky they didn't name it the "old white lady virus."
It seems logical to assign neutral identifiers to variants as they arise. With luck, doing so will prevent a huge jump in violent morons assaulting people perceived to be Indian.
Was there a huge jump in assaults on people from Britain when the UK variant was named UK variant? What about people from South Africa or Brazil when those variants came out, named after their countries of origin?
Fun fact. It is believed that the Spanish Flu epidemic a century ago did not, in fact, originate in Spain.
Was there a huge jump in assaults on people from Britain when the UK variant was named UK variant? What about people from South Africa or Brazil when those variants came out, named after their countries of origin?
So far, COVID-related assault victims have been Asian. How would one sort out British or South African citizens in a crowd? It seems prudent and easy to designate variants using Greek letters, and not get the violent morons riled up.
How would one sort out British or South African citizens in a crowd?
By their accents.
But my main point is instead of banning travel to and from India when it would have made a difference we fussed around with nomenclature instead.
ApatheticNoMore
6-21-21, 5:29pm
Banning travel to and from Indian doesn't make any sense, unless you also ban travel to and from anywhere else that allows travel to India (and any countries that allow travel from any countries that allow travel to India etc.). I mean suppose the UK allows travel from India and Canada allows travel from the UK, then you need to ban travel from Canada. Or tell me why my thinking on this is wrong?
The variant has now spread to more than 80 countries. So even if you were trying to stop the spread of Delta from a U.S. perspective, without a globally coordinated plan, it would be a rapidly escalating number of countries travel would need to be banned from and if we tried to base it on countries with detected cases that would lag the spread, many countries testing (including ours, we aren't even good keeping track of variants) wouldn't find it that quickly.
Now having testing and quarantine of a few weeks when you get into the U.S., that might be doable, except the borders are pretty porous. One could maybe say a country that has a new variant should ban travel from it. But we didn't do that, I mean the U.S. also invented whole new versions, remember that California variant? I do. We didn't stop all outgoing travel because of it.
By their accents.
But my main point is instead of banning travel to and from India when it would have made a difference we fussed around with nomenclature instead.
Once again your understanding of epidemiology is well beyond the state-of-the-art. You should definitely be in charge.
Dr. John Campbell, one of the people I've been trusting for good info throughout the pandemic posted an interesting video a few days ago. Apparently the CDC has been testing blood donations for seroprevalence of covid in blood donations and had found that roughly 49% of donors were showing covid antibodies as of March 21st. At that same point in time only about 13% of Americans had been vaccinated. Based on that he guesses that anywhere from 36-49% of people nationwide have actually been infected. (some are likely showing antibodies because of vaccination but many (most?) of the people have the antibodies because of previous infection, some of whom had also since been vaccinated making an exact number of previous infections impossible.) If this is accurate than asymptomatic, or at least minor symptomatic, cases are pretty common. And the low current case counts/hospitalizations across the country regardless of vaccination rate in any given region are a good indicator that we actually are getting close to a level of herd immunity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJpyvAv-oFQ
iris lilies
6-24-21, 12:37am
Dr. John Campbell, one of the people I've been trusting for good info throughout the pandemic posted an interesting video a few days ago. Apparently the CDC has been testing blood donations for seroprevalence of covid in blood donations and had found that roughly 49% of donors were showing covid antibodies as of March 21st. At that same point in time only about 13% of Americans had been vaccinated. Based on that he guesses that anywhere from 36-49% of people nationwide have actually been infected. (some are likely showing antibodies because of vaccination but many (most?) of the people have the antibodies because of previous infection, some of whom had also since been vaccinated making an exact number of previous infections impossible.) If this is accurate than asymptomatic, or at least minor symptomatic, cases are pretty common. And the low current case counts/hospitalizations across the country regardless of vaccination rate in any given region are a good indicator that we actually are getting close to a level of herd immunity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJpyvAv-oFQ
That is cheerful news.
https://medium.com/@dan.jeffries/coronavirus-a-tale-of-three-nations-88fa1681810c
Not trying to trigger a defence rebuttal from anyone but sharing with the hope that the experience of these countries helps longterm planning in the coming years.
I just heard horror stories about the transmissibility of the Delta variant. Supposedly it takes six seconds of passing exposure to infect. Yikes!
Teacher Terry
6-24-21, 1:16pm
Razz, it’s a interesting article.
From Razz's article "The German government reacted swiftly, with lockdowns, cutting off flights from everywhere, not just from places that were politically expedient. The US did the opposite, blocking only a few flights from China when the disease had long since spread beyond its borders, all while letting in whoever else wanted to show up with no quarantine policy."
Also from that article, Taiwan stopped travel from everywhere. Not profiled but also successful with this approach was New Zealand.
Gee, I guess maybe I'm not the only one who knows a little about epidemiology and the efficacy of travel bans. Maybe it was a stupid idea to allow unlimited travel by citizens to and from India.
Jane if the delta variant is that transmissible we will peak soon if we haven't already.
ApatheticNoMore
6-24-21, 1:56pm
Article is a bit addicted to the narrative of what each country is though. The U.S. messed up the messaging on masks, yes well so did the W.H.O.. "American entrepreneurs love to place big, risky bets", yes but that bet was of course as it mentioned government backed, it wouldn't have happened without it, it's in many ways the success of government going big on spending for the moonshot. 12 billion. Despite the poor safety net. Which of course is usually true, but was less true during covid with all the extra money in unemployment and stimulus. It wasn't $600, it was that on top of the usual unemployment payments (which do vary by state)
First time in an airport since last March. The number of maskholes is surprising. Roughly a third of the men and a sixth of the women either have their nose out or think covid is transmitted through the chin.
First time in an airport since last March. The number of maskholes is surprising. Roughly a third of the men and a sixth of the women either have their nose out or think covid is transmitted through the chin.They're probably fully vaccinated and unconcerned about catching or transmitting Covid, simply going through the motions of government's edicts. Maybe if you yelled at them and called them names someone's perspective might change.
I'd just suspect that the mask hole people and the unvaccinated could intersect significantly since both could be presumed an issue of personal freedom.
The local news for my small suburban area reported two fully vaccinated people contracted what they assume to be the delta variant since it is now the dominate strain in my state. The article didn't mention hospitalization or not. They had recently attended an outdoor country western concert with 100,000 people. The article said they'd traced several other cases to the concert gathering. I didn't see anything especially alarming since they say break though cases are expected, but still a good reminder to be careful. I don't think we know everything about the delta version yet.
Even in Vermont, which is #1 in lowest number of cases in the lower 48, and in the highest proportion of vaccinations, life seems almost "normal." Most places do not require masks but businesses will recommend masks for the unvaccinated. The hospital obviously requires masks everywhere. When I go into various businesses, I see that maybe 25-30% are wearing masks.
I feel safer and happier to be in Vermont when I know that more than three-quarters of us have been fully vaccinated. The governor has governed wisely. It's not a matter of government edicts or being maskholes--it's common sense, and a desire to work together for the common good.
I feel safer and happier to be in Vermont when I know that more than three-quarters of us have been fully vaccinated. The governor has governed wisely. It's not a matter of government edicts or being maskholes--it's common sense, and a desire to work together for the common good.
Congrats Catherine. I'm so jealous. The Trump contingency in an overwhelmingly Red state are already saying if doorknockers are on their doorstep about vaccines, they will shoot.
Vaccine rate in Red states is pathetic. 3 major health employers announced today that employees have mandated vaccines just like the flu. It's going to be interesting to hear what the attrition will be.
ApatheticNoMore
7-8-21, 7:44pm
I'm quite sure we'd be too disorganized to ever arrange to have doorknockers, that would require functional government no? Well so much for that. Oh I hear 2000 people on the state level have been employed to do this, only 40 million people in the state, this will work for sure. I really don't think there was the will to really push this one past the finish line as there should have been nationally and locally.
Hence vaccinations are pretty much topped out, though the numbers aren't actually terrible, not quite 70% here.
About 70% of people anywhere I go are still wearing masks. I'm usually not.
Congrats Catherine. I'm so jealous. The Trump contingency in an overwhelmingly Red state are already saying if doorknockers are on their doorstep about vaccines, they will shoot.
Vaccine rate in Red states is pathetic. 3 major health employers announced today that employees have mandated vaccines just like the flu. It's going to be interesting to hear what the attrition will be.Don't you think the numbers will go up once the various vaccines receive formal FDA approval rather than the emergency usage approval they currently enjoy? I wonder what's taking so long?
Don't you think the numbers will go up once the various vaccines receive formal FDA approval rather than the emergency usage approval they currently enjoy? I wonder what's taking so long?
I don't think that the majority of vaccine-hesitant people are not getting vaccinated because of issues related to FDA approval. I think it's politics and distrust of science. Most people don't know the nuances of FDA approvals.
ApatheticNoMore
7-8-21, 8:55pm
We have an Alzheimer's drug that may not even work that just got FDA approval, and meanwhile have vaccines that clearly work with very few problems reported, that don't have FDA approval.
I do wish Norovax would get the okay for U.S. emergency use. I've been vaxed (taking my chances with the virus or the vaccine was NOT a hard choice), but some might be skeptical of mRNA, maybe more than are waiting for FDA approval. And it's seems to be a very good non mRNA vaccine, might even make a good booster, although we may not need them.
It seems that any and all Alzheimer drugs--no matter how patently ineffective they are--will always be approved. They're sure moneymakers, after all.
It was a no-brainer for me to get vaccinated against COVID, though--as I told my vaccinator--I don't remember the last time I got an injection. Adolescence, probably. Weighing the effects of COVID against any possible side-effects of a vaccine made it an easy choice.
I'm skeptical of the efficacy of door-knockers myself--what rational person would risk being shot or even harassed to undertake such a task, anyway?
iris lilies
7-8-21, 9:34pm
What are “doorknockers.”
iris lilies
7-8-21, 9:38pm
First time in an airport since last March. The number of maskholes is surprising. Roughly a third of the men and a sixth of the women either have their nose out or think covid is transmitted through the chin.
hunh. And here you are, putting yourself in proximity to thousands of people in an enclosed building and then sliding yourself into a packed-like-sardines steel tube to fly through the sky.
i guess this was a life or death situation to cause this travel. Someone must be on their deathbed, so sorry to hear this.
No door-knockers here yet but DH got a letter in the mail urging him to get vaccinated. Apparently, the state health dept knows who has or hasn't been vaccinated. I no longer talk with him about it but often think about the possible consequences of his decision. He always said he would get one when it was finally approved and there may be many others who feel that way.
I’m not particularly worried about myself. I’m fully vaccinated. The thing I find sadly fascinating is that so many people seem to not understand that the latest guidance on masks in airports/planes is to protect the unvaccinated from being infected by potentially infectious but asymptomatic vaccinated (or not) people. All the maskholes at the airport today either still don’t get the main point of masks over a year into this or else they don’t care about protecting people they don’t know.
iris lilies
7-8-21, 10:18pm
Full vaccination only means you got the one vaccine that was available to you. You arent covered from break-through infections, variants, and Lord knows what else by placing yourself in the path of several thousand “mask-holes “
But by all means Please do carry on your purely-for-pleasure travel while deinigrating your fellow travelers.
No door-knockers here yet but DH got a letter in the mail urging him to get vaccinated. Apparently, the state health dept knows who has or hasn't been vaccinated. I no longer talk with him about it but often think about the possible consequences of his decision. He always said he would get one when it was finally approved and there may be many others who feel that way.
A letter would be less intrusive, certainly.
Full vaccination only means you got the one vaccine that was available to you. You arent covered from break-through infections, variants, and Lord knows what else by placing yourself in the path of several thousand “mask-holes “
But by all means Please do carry on your purely-for-pleasure travel while deinigrating your fellow travelers.
So should I be ‘cowering in fear’? That’s what all the anti vax idiots online would say I was doing if I ‘stopped living my life’. And since virtually all people in the hospital in the US with covid currently are non vaxxed I’ll take my chances.
And it’s not like I traveled to some idiot red place like Springfield Missouri where they are running out of hospital beds because of low vax rates combined with the super transmissible, but still mostly vax blocked delta variant.
And I will continue using to wear a mask, correctly, in crowded indoor places just in case I might be infected and not know it. Because that’s the kind of guy I am. One who doesn’t want to unknowingly and accidentally infect other people with a potentially deadly virus.
ApatheticNoMore
7-9-21, 12:05am
So people with enough money to travel (so definitely not someone who couldn't get vaccinated because they feared getting in trouble for missing a day off the job(s) they work). And yet they don't get a vaccine. Pretty unsympathetic. What do they even think they are doing boarding a plane without getting vaccinated.
iris lilies
7-9-21, 12:31am
So should I be ‘cowering in fear’? ….
oh gosh no! What you “should” do (remember, you asked!) is to stop with the “Idiots” “ idiot” and especially “mask-holes” terms to make your company more pleasant.
Wouldn't it be so much more pleasant to read posts that are respectful of others and their views, oh I so wish this would happen. Seeing and respect for each others humanity is the basis or foundation of any human contact. Change always begins with me.
I emailed the governor's office and state health department about mandating masks for outpatient services for vaccinated people, which I disagree with. I continue to look out of state for a place that will give me a mask free eye exam so I can actually see for the tests without my vision fogging up. I saw one place in Colorado that is mask optional but that is too far for me.
happystuff
7-9-21, 10:09am
Full vaccination only means you got the one vaccine that was available to you. You arent covered from break-through infections, variants....
I agree. A mask continues to protect one's self and others.
Also agree with razz - Seeing and respect for each others humanity is the basis or foundation of any human contact. Change always begins with me.
I just read an NBC article:
"Juarez said many of his hospitalized Covid-19 patients are "shocked" that Covid-19 truly exists and that it can make people very sick and even kill them. "A comment they make all the time is that they wish that they knew they were going to end up in the hospital this sick and they would have made a different choice and got the vaccine," he said.
Eric Frederick, chief administrative officer for Mercy Hospital Springfield, has also encountered patients who are extremely dismissive of or who flat-out deny the existence of Covid-19."
Where have these people been for the last 18 months? Were they not watching what happened in New York? Boggles my mind.
(Apparently they pay attention to the Russian trolls and anti-vaxxers I regularly encounter on Facebook.)
Denial is always an option of choice until the reality hits home. This is true of so many things in life - "it is not true so I don't have to do anything."
My parents have resumed going to church in person. My mother says if despite being vaccinated she gets covid that you have to die of something and at 80 she's already lived a decade past three score and ten.
Teacher Terry
7-10-21, 12:28pm
I assume that everyone that wants a vaccine has gotten one so am only wearing a mask if required. I keep one in my purse and one in my car. My friend said most everyone in California is wearing one inside and in Nevada they aren’t. I do feel sorry for the people that can’t get the vaccine for various health reasons.
I assume that everyone that wants a vaccine has gotten one so am only wearing a mask if required. I keep one in my purse and one in my car. My friend said most everyone in California is wearing one inside and in Nevada they aren’t. I do feel sorry for the people that can’t get the vaccine for various health reasons.
Or for access reasons. I'm still waiting (after about a month) for a response for our mobile vaccination team. Even a "we're thinking of you" would have been nice...>:(
ApatheticNoMore
7-10-21, 1:29pm
Health reasons and access reasons are the only sympathetic reasons. And access reasons is fundamentally a failure of government. And I'm tired of individuals having to "make up for" (and they can't really) failure of government, so everyone has to wear masks for 2 years although we now have vaccines, because those programs that should exist to do everything possible to get people vaccinated haven't. Bah.
Oh once in awhile I'll get motivated to put one on, usually I don't. It's true many people in CA still are wearing masks.
iris lilies
7-10-21, 1:34pm
Or for access reasons. I'm still waiting (after about a month) for a response for our mobile vaccination team. Even a "we're thinking of you" would have been nice...>:(
Wait…didn’t you get the vaccine?
I got the vaccine--but not from a mobile unit.
I Ubered to a pharmacy. Fully vaxxed since Thursday.
iris lilies
7-10-21, 4:37pm
I got the vaccine--but not from a mobile unit.
I Ubered to a pharmacy. Fully vaxxed since Thursday.
you didn’t cancel with the mobile unit?
I didn't get a chance to schedule with them, or I would have.
Does anyone think there might be another lockdown with the way the Delta variant is going?
Jane v2.0
7-14-21, 11:08pm
The situation in some places is frightening, but the governors of the worst-hit areas all seem to be Republicans, so I doubt it.
Teacher Terry
7-14-21, 11:31pm
Our rate continues to climb and 3 people have died from the Delta variant that were not vaccinated, had no other conditions and weren’t seniors.
ApatheticNoMore
7-15-21, 1:25am
No. But we are getting as many cases a day as in the 2020 spring lockdowns (and there was no vaccine then, and a population with little exposure).
I’ll be surprised if we see any more lockdowns. The areas where lockdowns need to happen are areas where politics will prevent them from happening. With the exception of LA. The case numbers there are bad. We may see lockdowns there but there will be bitter fights about it.
Virtually all the cases in the Chicago area are unvaxxed people. Same with hospitalizations and deaths. A lot of the cases are younger people.
Got an email this morning advising an employee was diagnosed with Covid. Those letter pertain to any City employee not necessarily from my workplace specifically. I wonder if the person was unvaccinated or it was a "break through" case.
dado potato
7-15-21, 9:50am
I am not worried about Delta variant at present, because DW and I both are fully vaccinated. The rare breakthrough cases have not resulted in hospitalizations, I understand. But I do worry about unvaccinated people gathering in the hot spots (Utah and SW Missouri come mind). Later on, after schools start up, it seems highly likely there will be outbreaks in specific schools. Kids infected with the Delta variant will bring the virus home after school, I imagine. So 3 and 6 months from now I fear the cases per 100,000 will be higher.
I would not be complacent about the death rates per 100,000. As of July 13, 2021 the 10 states with the highest death rates are:
NJ 298
NY 275
MA 261
RI 258
MS 250
AZ 248
AL 233
CT 232
LA 233
SD 230
For what it's worth, the party affiliations of the governors of the 10 states with the highest death rates at present are Republican (5) and Democratic (5) equally.
"For what it's worth, the party affiliations of the governors of the 10 states with the highest death rates at present are Republican (5) and Democratic (5) equally."
Are those rates cumulative? Because recently, Republican governors have actively discouraged people from taking actions that might slow COVID spread, as in Florida and Tennessee.
dado potato
7-15-21, 2:03pm
Are those rates cumulative?
Yes, I assume so.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state
I am not worried about Delta variant at present, because DW and I both are fully vaccinated. The rare breakthrough cases have not resulted in hospitalizations, I understand. But I do worry about unvaccinated people gathering in the hot spots (Utah and SW Missouri come mind). Later on, after schools start up, it seems highly likely there will be outbreaks in specific schools. Kids infected with the Delta variant will bring the virus home after school, I imagine. So 3 and 6 months from now I fear the cases per 100,000 will be higher.
I would not be complacent about the death rates per 100,000. As of July 13, 2021 the 10 states with the highest death rates are:
NJ 298
NY 275
MA 261
RI 258
MS 250
AZ 248
AL 233
CT 232
LA 233
SD 230
For what it's worth, the party affiliations of the governors of the 10 states with the highest death rates at present are Republican (5) and Democratic (5) equally.
Not on the list, despite the high number of elderly in the state, and despite the lack of mask mandates, and despite people traveling there to avoid restrictions in their own states and have a good time - Florida.
Massachusetts which is third highest had very strenuous regulations, including a mandate that you wear a mask when walking by yourself in the middle of the woods.
You think maybe masks aren't that effective?
iris lilies
7-15-21, 2:12pm
Not on the list, despite the high number of elderly in the state, and despite the lack of mask mandates, and despite people traveling there to avoid restrictions in their own states and have a good time - Florida.
Massachusetts which is third highest had very strenuous regulations, including a mandate that you wear a mask when walking by yourself in the middle of the woods.
You think maybe masks aren't that effective?
I think maybe government regulations aren’t all that effective on how and where the average Joe leads his life. The only thing the government can do is shut down places it regulates. The government can’t keep me from having a private event in my home of 20 people, for instance.
That is what we are seeing in Mass. no doubt.
Florida could be the fact that it’s warmer weather throughout most of the year and people are just outside more. We all know that being outside is a good thing for infection control.
They are actually so many variables as to infection rate and death rate that I find it odd this particular political slicing comes up again and again
ApatheticNoMore
7-15-21, 2:24pm
Yea no attempt was made to control private maskless indoor gatherings really, if people wanted to do them. If we had the kind of contract tracing to know everyone was getting it from say the supermarket or somewhere else where everyone was masked it would be one thing. We don't have that kind of contract tracing anyway and people weren't even cooperating with what limited tracing existed. Might as well leave it to somewhere that did and was successful at contract tracing.
By the way at about 25th place in deaths (and much higher in cases 17th place) Florida is very very middling, noone considers middle of the pack somewhere we should look very closely at and take lessons from. We would be better off looking at states that actually did better than average. Not, oh wow you are the median, congrats for being average, all C's on the report card, you go Florida.
SO’s flagship hotel reopened their top floor bar today. SO invited a few friends to celebrate. Walking through the tenderloin to get here from the bus I passed a pop up vaccine spot just on a random busy sidewalk. About 15 homeless and not quite homeless people waiting to get jabbed.
If Biden's plan to pay people $100 to get vaccinated goes through a lot of homeless will sign up. They won't die of covid but if they spend the money on drugs they might die of overdose. After all depending where you are heroin can be as little as $5 a bag.
happystuff
7-29-21, 9:17pm
SO’s flagship hotel reopened their top floor bar today. SO invited a few friends to celebrate. Walking through the tenderloin to get here from the bus I passed a pop up vaccine spot just on a random busy sidewalk. About 15 homeless and not quite homeless people waiting to get jabbed.
Nice! And kudos to the people manning these pop-ups!
I saw on the news today .02% of all covid deaths are among children. This reinforces what I have said all along. They should be able to return to school maskless and enjoy life instead if being told all the time to be afraid of the virus. Let them enjoy their childhoods! Let kids be kids free of adult anxiety! The virus isn't going after them and our government shouldn't either.
Apparently Lindsay graham is a breakthrough case. Apparently he was with a bipartisan group of senators on joe manchin’s boat at the time he started having symptoms. It will be interesting to see how many of them also end up with breakthrough cases. I hope they were all vaccinated.
Teacher Terry
8-3-21, 12:35am
One child’s death is too many if it’s preventable. I hope it’s safe to vaccinate small children.
One child’s death is too many if it’s preventable. I hope it’s safe to vaccinate small children.
We could prevent measles outbreaks by never letting children go to school in person, confining them to their homes, etc. We could keep them from dying in motor vehicle accidents by banning them from riding in cars. We could prevent drowning deaths by making them take sponge baths rather than use bathtubs and not allowing them to go swimming.
Oh the things we could do in the name of safety because even one death is too many.
Chicken lady
8-3-21, 9:48am
Or, we could prevent measles outbreaks (and flu outbreaks and chicken pox...) through vaccination! Risk of death or side effects being much much lower with the shot! And we could make people opt OUT of organ donation instead of opting in (most people are lazy) and we could put breathalyzers in cars (for optional use to inform the driver) and then take away people’s drivers licenses the first time they drive drunk! And we could keep tobacco products away from young people to discourage expensive, health damaging addiction, and we could offer high quality prenatal care to every woman in America....
oh the things we could do because even one easily preventable death is too many!
I think public health issues will always be a tough call. We are told about “the science”, but the “noble lie” and lab-leak taboos make unquestioning faith hard to justify. That leaves us with old-fashioned politics and governance to generate policy. It doesn’t help that so many try to politicize this virus. What balance do we strike between liberty and safety?
I think there is some space between every man for himself and a federal registry of the clean and unclean. Somewhere between being lone wolves or veal calves.
Teacher Terry
8-3-21, 1:41pm
CL, I like your solution much better than Yppej’s.
And we could keep tobacco products away from young people to discourage expensive, health damaging addiction,
How? They're already illegal. There are already sting operations to catch people selling to those underage.
iris lilies
8-3-21, 2:03pm
Or, we could prevent measles outbreaks (and flu outbreaks and chicken pox...) through vaccination! Risk of death or side effects being much much lower with the shot! And we could make people opt OUT of organ donation instead of opting in (most people are lazy) and we could put breathalyzers in cars (for optional use to inform the driver) and then take away people’s drivers licenses the first time they drive drunk! And we could keep tobacco products away from young people to discourage expensive, health damaging addiction, and we could offer high quality prenatal care to every woman in America....
oh the things we could do because even one easily preventable death is too many!
The devil is in the details of what “easily preventable” consists of.
I do not like the way you breezily say what “we” can do to others. “We” can so easily make them do X because “we” think “we” know better than they do what is best for all of us.
if you want to attach a breathalyzer to you car you are free to do that. You are free to stand on a street corner urging people you see to sign their driver’s license to give away organs.
But you want the heavy hand of government to do all of the dirty work for you, dirty work that would be ignored in my city anyway. All the laws, rules, and regulations in the world won’t cause people to drive carefully, stop at stop signs, register their cars,pay their taxes, keep their properties up to the Standards defined by city ordinances, keep their agressive dogs on a leash, etc etc.Not even talking about shooting guns on the regular for fun or business.
I haven’t forgotten your solution to have drug dogs harassing library patrons.I still find that suggestion preposterous and I see it as a jackbooted threat that horrifies even me, Law ‘N Order Iris.
iris lilies
8-3-21, 2:05pm
How? They're already illegal. There are already sting operations to catch people selling to those underage.
Wait…you mean laws don’t prevent bad behaviour? I am shocked! shocked I tell you!
iris lilies
8-3-21, 2:10pm
I will say that in my city where civil disobedience takes place on the daily and I see it, many or most? wear masks. Even outside which is too much for me. Even the guys who are caught on security cameras stealing packages, that we see nearly daily on our Nextdoor feed. Even those guys are wearing masks.
Oh… Wait…guess that serves them well.
Wait…you mean laws don’t prevent bad behaviour? I am shocked! shocked I tell you!
There is a correlation between parental smoking and child smoking, just as there is between parental obesity and child obesity, as I posted earlier. The response was a rather fatalistic it's genetic with regards to obesity.
Is smoking perhaps genetic also? People can't have any agency, can they? Then they would have to bear responsibility.
If we want to stop children from smoking, I think the example set by the people they most admire is of much more import than any law. But I guess it's not politically correct to say that.
Same with alcohol consumption. Maybe it's not a breathalyzer in the car that will work, but a parent that doesn't chug down the alcohol.
iris lilies
8-3-21, 2:31pm
There is a correlation between parental smoking and child smoking, just as there is between parental obesity and child obesity, as I posted earlier. The response was a rather fatalistic it's genetic with regards to obesity.
Is smoking perhaps genetic also? People can't have any agency, can they? Then they would have to bear responsibility.
If we want to stop children from smoking, I think the example set by the people they most admire is of much more import than any law. But I guess it's not politically correct to say that.
Same with alcohol consumption. Maybe it's not a breathalyzer in the car that will work, but a parent that doesn't chug down the alcohol.
Hilariously, a moment after I wrote the sentence above about a breathalyzer, I went off to another forum I frequent where one of the posters talks about running her breathalyzer on herself last night. I guess it never occurred to me to buy a breathalyzer but maybe I should. I don’t do much drinking anymore starting with the never ending respiratory infection I had in the year 2019 which caused red wine to taste bad to me.
Chicken lady
8-3-21, 3:15pm
Actually the only two “laws” I suggested were taking the driver’s license (I guess combined with requiring the car manufacturer to include the breathalyzer - I had a cigaret lighter in my car for years and never used it...) and making organ donation opt out - again, you have to check a box when you get your first license, or later if you change your mind - hardly a draconian restriction.
the rest is literally stuff that requires community action and funding and could be completely voluntary and in some cases free if only we cared enough.
btw, I am a one woman anti tobacco and drug, do not drink or tail when driving crusade in my classroom. (I have a personal litmus test for my actions - 1) will I get fired? 2) will it be worth it? In this case 1) probably not and 2) yes.)
still love the drug dogs. Never met a drug dog I didn’t like. Semi related, Have you ever met a bloodhound? They’re adorable!
iris lilies
8-3-21, 4:00pm
Actually the only two “laws” I suggested were taking the driver’s license (I guess combined with requiring the car manufacturer to include the breathalyzer - I had a cigaret lighter in my car for years and never used it...) and making organ donation opt out - again, you have to check a box when you get your first license, or later if you change your mind - hardly a draconian restriction.
the rest is literally stuff that requires community action and funding and could be completely voluntary and in some cases free if only we cared enough.
btw, I am a one woman anti tobacco and drug, do not drink or tail when driving crusade in my classroom. (I have a personal litmus test for my actions - 1) will I get fired? 2) will it be worth it? In this case 1) probably not and 2) yes.)
still love the drug dogs. Never met a drug dog I didn’t like. Semi related, Have you ever met a bloodhound? They’re adorable!
Having large dogs of any kind sniffing a library using population made up of a large percentage of African American men who 1) may be carrying illegal drugs and/or 2) may have outstanding warrants seems to be circa 1938 Mississippi. intimidating? Little bit.
Your whiteness is showing, and I don’t say that lightly. I am annoyed with myself for saying it but geez it had to be said.
The devil is in the details of what “easily preventable” consists of.
I do not like the way you breezily say what “we” can do to others. “We” can so easily make them do X because “we” think “we” know better than they do what is best for all of us.
if you want to attach a breathalyzer to you car you are free to do that. You are free to stand on a street corner urging people you see to sign their driver’s license to give away organs.
But you want the heavy hand of government to do all of the dirty work for you, dirty work that would be ignored in my city anyway. All the laws, rules, and regulations in the world won’t cause people to drive carefully, stop at stop signs, register their cars,pay their taxes, keep their properties up to the Standards defined by city ordinances, keep their agressive dogs on a leash, etc etc.Not even talking about shooting guns on the regular for fun or business.
I haven’t forgotten your solution to have drug dogs harassing library patrons.I still find that suggestion preposterous and I see it as a jackbooted threat that horrifies even me, Law ‘N Order Iris.
Laws will prevent many people from doing these things. I believe (probably foolishly) that most people want or try to be law abiding citizens.
Chicken lady
8-3-21, 5:42pm
Iris lilies, both my whiteness and my experience in eduction are showing.
I think you are visualizing an armed man in uniform with a German shepherd.
my school has a drug dog. It’s a small, friendly, herding breed. It belongs to a staff member. If we have concerns or a few times a year it comes in to visit. The children pet it and play with it and they don’t know it is a drug dog and now and then, somebody gets called down to the office and their backpack gets searched and their parents get called. Someone asked how to get the drugs out of the library. Clearly asking people not to bring drugs into the library won’t work. There is no non-confrontational way to get the drugs out of the library. At the very least, they have to be detected and stopped/removed.
I also wasn’t envisioning a drug dog harassing library patrons. I was envisioning a well trained dog walking quietly by in a much less obtrusive fashion than most animals I meet in pet smart.
lalso, I wanted to post signs about the drug dog so that anybody walking in who could read would have the option to leave and return NOT carrying drugs.
Now totally off topic, so I won’t try to elaborate further.
iris lilies
8-3-21, 6:24pm
Iris lilies, both my whiteness and my experience in eduction are showing.
I think you are visualizing an armed man in uniform with a German shepherd.
my school has a drug dog. It’s a small, friendly, herding breed. It belongs to a staff member. If we have concerns or a few times a year it comes in to visit. The children pet it and play with it and they don’t know it is a drug dog and now and then, somebody gets called down to the office and their backpack gets searched and their parents get called. Someone asked how to get the drugs out of the library. Clearly asking people not to bring drugs into the library won’t work. There is no non-confrontational way to get the drugs out of the library. At the very least, they have to be detected and stopped/removed.
I also wasn’t envisioning a drug dog harassing library patrons. I was envisioning a well trained dog walking quietly by in a much less obtrusive fashion than most animals I meet in pet smart.
lalso, I wanted to post signs about the drug dog so that anybody walking in who could read would have the option to leave and return NOT carrying drugs.
Now totally off topic, so I won’t try to elaborate further.
I find your thinking scary, and that is something else I don’t say lightly. “Scary” because you are so serenely convinced your proposal is no big deal. It is not true that “at the very least [drugs] must be detected and stopped/removed.” In no universe is that a goal of library service.
The public library is a different institution than your private school that serves minors.
It would be a very big deal to ID drug holders and warrant jumpers in a space that should be safe for all to enter, and haul them out of the library, presumably to lockup.
It is not appropriate to have regular patrols of law enforcement patrolling for anything other than appropriate library behavior. Whether dogs are involved or not is a secondary (but sinister) issue. Sure, holding drugs in your pocket is appropriate library behavior because it doesn’t bother other library patrons. No one cares.
sorry to get in the last word but this is a NOPE and it is somewhat tied to the concepts we touch on in this thread, government overreach.
The war on drugs failed and not for lack of militarization of policing.
Unless there are other, chargeable indicators--patron smokes meth in the restroom. patron is clearly intoxicated, patron is dealing (and those can be dealt with), I'm with IrisLily. Why is it anyone else's business if someone is in possession of small amounts of drugs? I agree the "War on Drugs" has been a disaster.
Chicken lady
8-3-21, 8:01pm
I said I would stop, and after this you may have all the words, but I wasn’t answering “should we remove drugs from the library?” I was answering “how do we get drugs out of the library.”
I’m sorry I scare you. I don’t think I’m a particularly scary person irl. I personally would be opposed to the lockup, but I think it would be ok to ask them to leave if they are violating what I assume is a library policy (again, no personal judgement on if it SHOULD be a library policy.)
If I have a home, or a car, I can stash my drugs there (speaking theoretically, I am not a user) and go to the library drug free. If I live on the streets what are my options?
I have a bloodhound. He is indeed adorable and fun. I use him for search and rescue work, and other misc. tracking. He has saved quite a few lives.
I can subtly, in a way most of you wouldn’t notice, cause him to “alert” anytime I want.
I have raised and trained scent hounds for over 25 years now. And when I was a child, my grandparents took care of me during the day, and grandpa had a pack of hunting beagles, and a pack of Black and Tan coonhounds. Scent hounds are great.
iris lilies
8-4-21, 12:38am
I have a bloodhound. He is indeed adorable and fun. I use him for search and rescue work, and other misc. tracking. He has saved quite a few lives.
I can subtly, in a way most of you wouldn’t notice, cause him to “alert” anytime I want.
I have raised and trained scent hounds for over 25 years now. And when I was a child, my grandparents took care of me during the day, and grandpa had a pack of hunting beagles, and a pack of Black and Tan coonhounds. Scent hounds are great.
Beagles and Bloodhounds are cute but I don’t want them on drug patrols in the public library. People bring in all kinds of illegal things, illegal drugs and guns being the obvious ones. i’m sure there are other illegal things I don’t know about that they bring in. But as long as their behavior is stellar, I would never advocate using Library Policy on illegal activities to boot them out let alone have the gendarmes escort them to lockup.
At any one time at Central Library downtown or the Regional branch in the North part of the city it is likely someone in the building is carrying an illegally obtained gun. That’s just the demographic we have here and yes guns as well as holding certain drugs are against Library policy.
Unlike schools, the Library where I worked did not have a “0 tolerance” policy.
It seems like a library with drug dogs might be setting themselves up for a lawsuit accusing them of violating the fourth amendment.
Teacher Terry
8-4-21, 3:25pm
I agree that libraries need to be off limits for drug dogs.
iris lilies
8-4-21, 3:55pm
I agree that libraries need to be off limits for drug dogs.But bloodhounds add that Deep South touch for harassment immersion. I didn’t have to look far on the Internet to see that they were called “Negro dogs” back in the day.
https://blackvoicenews.com/2007/10/04/slave-owners-negro-dogs/
I can see the image-gone-viral now, bloodhounds going down the aisles of central library where 3/4 of the patrons sitting at work tables are African-American men.Great visual for the outrage community.
Went to grocery store today. Sign on door says masks are required regardless of vaccinated status. Went back to car to see if I had one and I did. Got down 2 aisles before I realized half the people in there weren't wearing a mask. Mine came off real fast.
iris lilies
8-4-21, 4:03pm
Went to grocery store today. Sign on door says masks are required regardless of vaccinated status. Went back to car to see if I had one and I did. Got down 2 aisles before I realized half the people in there weren't wearing a mask. Mine came off real fast.
The few times I go shopping in a brick and mortar store I try to put a mask my neck. I have altered all of my masks so that they fit with a band around my head because the kind that go on my ears never stay on my face. So, it can hang around my neck and if I get to the store and find a mask is required that I can put it up and on.
iris lilies
8-4-21, 4:11pm
We have a 4 days flower show next month. I’ve already told the group that I am willing to set up as I’ve already made that obligation and I will of course help tear down the show. But this assumes that the group can act efficiently and not stand around and fuss about things as we all usually do.
But. But but but. I will not work during the show as “hostess “which means you sit there for three hours breathing in the fumes of hundreds of others. Our flower show is at the homebuilders Association hall and there will be 200 people through there in a three hour stint. I feel bad about this because I don’t want to be a princess who doesn’t shoulder her share of duties, but I think it’s dumb that we don’t change our expectations.
I asked the president why, exactly, we had to have someone babysit the show. Yes it is standard procedure but why can’t we relaxOur expectations during these unusual,times? She said we need to guard against theft.
That answer cemented my idea that I will not risk my health just to watch over other people’s crap. Flower show ladies need to understand that whatever they put in the flower show may walk off. It’s unlikely, but it could happen. That isn’t a big deal and I am entering my exhibit with that in mind.
But bloodhounds add that Deep South touch for harassment immersion. I didn’t have to look far on the Internet to see that they were called “Negro dogs” back in the day.
https://blackvoicenews.com/2007/10/04/slave-owners-negro-dogs/
I can see the image-gone-viral now, bloodhounds going down the aisles of central library where 3/4 of the patrons sitting at work tables are African-American men.Great visual for the outrage community.
Plenty of outrage going around these days ("Don't Fauci my Florida!" "Ban Critical Race Theory!") Some of it more justified than others.
Went to grocery store today. Sign on door says masks are required regardless of vaccinated status. Went back to car to see if I had one and I did. Got down 2 aisles before I realized half the people in there weren't wearing a mask. Mine came off real fast.
My county falls within the CDC guidelines recommending mask indoors in public places regardless of vaccination status. I did my routine weekly shopping early yesterday and did not notice any signs requiring or recommending masks. I wore one anyway but did not see many mask wearers. I still try to avoid any big shopping crowds with timely shopping and can get most of my shopping done in a couple of hours or so once a week. It doesn't seem like any big deal after wearing one for so long earlier.
Went to Costco this morning not realizing they had changed their hours and there was a waiting line around the building to get in; it was packed. Very few wore masks. I think this time around it's each man for himself.
I never stopped wearing a mask in stores - grocery, retail or whatever.
ApatheticNoMore
8-4-21, 6:23pm
I guess at this point everyone ignores the CDC no matter who is president (wearing masks when advised not to etc.). The CDC under both Trump and Biden have been pretty bad, it's just consistent static.
I acknowledge that I must be in the minority to think that the CDC and Fauci have done a fairly reasonable job. Certainly not perfect, but reasonable. The rules have changed when they've learned more or collected more data, or now with the variants, but it comes off as crying wolf. They've given the best case rules and guidelines as things have changed. It's more the people who have failed, either by expressing some form of personal freedom or subscribing to disinformation. Most of the restrictions on masks or social gatherings have been up to local authorities.
I do think it might be time for Fauci to step down. Under the theory you can't please all of the people all of the time he's pretty much disappointed everyone at some time and is starting to come off as a government figurehead. It would be good to wipe the slate clean with a new face and fresh presentations.
I heard speculation today that the timing of the increased concern about covid is teacher's unions not wanting to go back to the classroom this fall but desiring to work from home for another year.
I heard speculation today that...
... lawn gnomes are behind it all!
... lawn gnomes are behind it all!
Aha! I was wondering who was behind having me work 10 hours day to deep clean, disinfect, and otherwise prepare classrooms, bathrooms, cafeteria, etc. - with me all the while thinking it was for the return of students and teachers alike!
ApatheticNoMore
8-4-21, 8:10pm
I don't think the CDC gave people a fair chance to get vaccinated before removing mask mandates (they didn't give the 6 weeks from vaccine availability to all adults). So I wore masks a few weeks after the CDC said they were not necessary, because everyone deserves a chance to get vaccinated before being exposed to the maskless hoards.
Then I dumped masks too, figuring people have had their chance to get a vax if a vax was what they wanted (never 100% true as people will always have extraordinary circumstances, but kinda). And I LIKED IT. No more masks!
Then weeks ago masks became mandated again here. So I wore them again, annoyed but law-abiding, "oh I'm so virtuous, I obey the law", all along figuring our public health authorities were dofuses since they were neither aligned with the CDC nor state policy, but what can you do (I also think poorly of them because they had handled the pandemic very poorly before that).
But I don't really think the CDC has done well, mask messaging errors early on, screwing up testing early on, aresols errors, removing masks mandates before people had a good faith chance to get vaccinated etc..
And for weeks now it seems there have been rising stories of Delta and increased threats. Weeks before the latest from the CDC. But personally, I was sick of thinking about covid. And if I heard another invermectin pusher blabbing about Delta and vaccines not working, I would just lose it :0!. But eventually I figured maybe I should try to figure out what was going on, grumble so sick of covid, I want to panic about something else instead. Well it was none too clear what if anything was going on. But here we are.
... lawn gnomes are behind it all!
The huge jump in cases in several states, hospitals being overwhelmed, skilled nurses in short supply, the likelihood of yet more emergent variants--those elements are clearly no match for overreaching union bosses...I think Jeppy is f**king with us.
But I've long thought there was something sinister about lawn gnomes.:devil:
Vermont is the best state in the country - best vaccination percent, best adolescent vaccination percentage, lowest hospitalizations, so few cases no restrictions have been put back in place, and the only part of the state with substantial transmission is Burlington. Some parts of the state are rated low risk and most are !moderate. But instead of celebrating since the CDC is only warning about areas of substantial or high risk, this week the Vermont Department of Education recommended universal masking in schools. Who do you think is behind that? Hint: if you're following evidence and facts then it sure ain't the scientists.
Who do you think is behind that?
Lawn gnomes. Better than whatever nutball conspiracy theory you're selling.
Lawn gnomes. Better than whatever nutball conspiracy theory you're selling.
Are you saying lawn gnomes because they "work" from home? Yeah, I see how hard those working from home work. About as hard as a lawn gnome. Gnome is a good term for those who don't want to go back to the classroom but sit on their lawn with a laptop, though zoombie is pretty good too.
Are you saying lawn gnomes because they "work" from home? Yeah, I see how hard those working from home work. About as hard as a lawn gnome. Gnome is a good term for those who don't want to go back to the classroom but sit on their lawn with a laptop, though zoombie is pretty good too.
You know... I spent the last teaching year, during the pandemic, sitting next to a 4th grade teacher who was working from my home, teaching in a bilingual program. Watching the trials and tribulations of the class and the teaching staff was quite educational. None of these teachers want to "sit on the lawn with a laptop", and almost all were quite keen to return to in-person instruction ASAP (except one of the teaching staff who was immunocompromised).
I spent the last 3 weeks on a road trip with one of these teachers, and a frequent cause of concern and anxiety was getting back to in-person instruction this coming year, and how that would happen. Almost no conversation along the lines of "gee, it'd be nice to drink fruit drinks on the deck while pretending to work).
You should try facts someday, they are pretty enlightening.
Chris Hayes had a piece on the governor of Vermont, Phil Scott, a popular Republican governor in a liberal state. It's heartening that old-timey pols like him exist in today's GOP.
iris lilies
8-4-21, 9:53pm
I can’t imagine teaching a classroom of kids through a laptop. Oy. And then all the variations have to be even worse such as some are being taught long distance and some in class. I’m sure classroom teachers want to get back into the classroom. That’s why vaccines and masks are essential so that they can educate kids the most effectively.
Chicken lady
8-4-21, 10:34pm
If they try to make me teach online again I will quit.
Vermont is the best state in the country - best vaccination percent, best adolescent vaccination percentage, lowest hospitalizations, so few cases no restrictions have been put back in place, and the only part of the state with substantial transmission is Burlington. Some parts of the state are rated low risk and most are !moderate. But instead of celebrating since the CDC is only warning about areas of substantial or high risk, this week the Vermont Department of Education recommended universal masking in schools. Who do you think is behind that? Hint: if you're following evidence and facts then it sure ain't the scientists.
It's vermont. Duh. It must be ben and jerry. As long as they let me have a good chocolate ice cream and don't make me eat chunky monkey with the nasty banana flavor, I'm good.
But seriously, 18 months into this and you refuse to accept that masks matter just because you effing hate them. You should just admit that you HATE MASKS AND DONT CARE IF THEY SAVE PEOPLES LIVES.
Honesty is the best policy Jeppy. Admit that you don't care about other people's health and you will be much happier. We will all probably choose to stay far away from you but maybe you will be good with that.
Honesty is the best policy Jeppy. Admit that you don't care about other people's health and you will be much happier. We will all probably choose to stay far away from you but maybe you will be good with that.
I have observed that the sort of Jeppy-behaviour in my community has discouraged first responders and front-line medical folks from having any enthusiasm in their jobs, and has contributed to a reduction in our numbers.
I myself am also about to wash my hands of the whole thing, and just enjoy my life. This is of course a tremendously privileged position to take. I'm OK with that.
Masks don't save lives, distancing does. When my governor aka dictator ordered me to wear a mask when walking by myself in the woods how many lives did it save? None. Squirrels and other animals are smart enough to keep six feet away from people and humans could master this skill too if they wanted to. But they want to crowd together in airplanes for nonessential travel, etc. Study the size the covid particles and the porousness of masks. Then look at how people actually wear masks, under their noses or tucked under their chins. It's no surprise that by relying on masks we have recurring covid outbreaks.
It is the maskers who need to be honest and face reality, but they can't resist the urge to crowd up against other people. Employer vaccine mandates are coming into play. That and not masks should get us to the end of this.
This is why we can't have nice things.
My county falls within the CDC guidelines recommending mask indoors in public places regardless of vaccination status. I did my routine weekly shopping early yesterday and did not notice any signs requiring or recommending masks. I wore one anyway but did not see many mask wearers. I still try to avoid any big shopping crowds with timely shopping and can get most of my shopping done in a couple of hours or so once a week. It doesn't seem like any big deal after wearing one for so long earlier.
That's the thing. I only wore one for 30 minutes once a week when I went to the grocery store. Didn't wear one at work and didn't go any place that required one. I think stores will have a hard time getting people to put masks back on and they know it so they won't say anything. At least where I live. People in my County and the neighboring one weren't subjected to wearing masks very much.
I acknowledge that I must be in the minority to think that the CDC and Fauci have done a fairly reasonable job. Certainly not perfect, but reasonable. The rules have changed when they've learned more or collected more data, or now with the variants, but it comes off as crying wolf. They've given the best case rules and guidelines as things have changed. It's more the people who have failed, either by expressing some form of personal freedom or subscribing to disinformation. Most of the restrictions on masks or social gatherings have been up to local authorities.
I do think it might be time for Fauci to step down. Under the theory you can't please all of the people all of the time he's pretty much disappointed everyone at some time and is starting to come off as a government figurehead. It would be good to wipe the slate clean with a new face and fresh presentations.
I would love if Dr Ashish Jha would replace Fauci. He tells it like it is and is honest when he thinks the media/CDC/Biden/anyone is over-reacting. He is also the only one who my husband doesn't scream at through the TV so the more I can see of him, the better for me. Haha!!
ApatheticNoMore
8-5-21, 1:16pm
I would love if Dr Ashish Jha would replace Fauci. He tells it like it is and is honest when he thinks the media/CDC/Biden/anyone is over-reacting. He is also the only one who my husband doesn't scream at through the TV so the more I can see of him, the better for me. Haha!!
He seems alright. I've read his twitter from time to time among many. The role that public health authorities in an ideal world should have fulfilled was taken up by #@$# twitter. But there's no lack of trust in institutions, not at all, everything worked perfectly, the CDC was never wrong much less political etc. (Biden pushed the repeal of mask mandates, who can doubt it). And surely there will be no long term repercussions to such failures, had there been any.
Interesting article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/05/opinion/covid-delta-vaccinated-flu.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
Interesting article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/05/opinion/covid-delta-vaccinated-flu.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
"Live free and die coughing" is pretty pithy.
Teacher Terry
8-5-21, 2:47pm
With the vaccine available for anyone that wants it I think masks should be a individual decision now. Many businesses here said that they won’t enforce it because people are acting too crazy and they aren’t risking their employees lives over this.
With the vaccine available for anyone that wants it I think masks should be a individual decision now.
I agree that in most cases it should be an individual decision, but folks should also abide by the decisions of the business/organizations/etc that they wish to frequent - or simply not frequent them AND NOT complain about THEIR rules and choices!
Many businesses here said that they won’t enforce it because people are acting too crazy and they aren’t risking their employees lives over this.
This is so sad! But, then, there are so many selfish people who are turning to anger, violence, insane and far-fetched "if" scenarios to support their perpetual fallacies, etc. - all so they can feel justified and self-righteous in their uncompassionate and "all about me" behaviors - with something as simple as wearing/not wearing a mask for not only the protection of others but also for their OWN protection. And I'm not talking about fanatically wearing a mask 24/7, as some tend to exaggerate and rant fanatically against wearing ANY mask at ANY time. There IS a common sense happy medium! Some folks simply don't have or are not using any common sense.
The sad part to this whole mask/no mask conversation is summed up in those that are getting sick. Period. Vaccinated/non-vaccinated/mask/no mask - people are STILL getting sick!
I continue with my prayers to all to stay healthy AND happy! It is possible! Even when wearing a mask! :D
This article does a good job of breaking down what happened with Provincetown. And probably about as good of a "real world" scenario of actual results as we'll get. They've been doing significant contact tracing and a group of middle to upper middle class gay men are very likely to follow up this situation by getting tested since HIV has made most of us very big fans of medicine and the importance of proactively looking after one's health.
My takeaway from the data from Provincetown is actually quite good:
Almost everyone was vaccinated, both local residents and vacationers. Estimated that as low as 1% weren't. All the venues where crowded parties were happening were requiring proof of vaccination.
60,000 tourists bringing germs from all over and swapping them in close ("carnival") quarters;
1,000 total cases, almost all mild or symptomless, so Pr(+ test) = 1.7%
750 cases among vaxed, so Pr("Breakthrough") = 1.25%
250 cases estimated among unvaxxed, so roughly 50%
7 hospitalized, so Pr(serious) = 0.0117%
And most importantly ZERO DEATHS
The ultimate takeaway is that the vaccines absolutely worked, and worked quite well.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/05/provincetown-covid-outbreak/
Teacher Terry
8-5-21, 9:36pm
I am obeying all the rules without complaining. The governor is making the rules not the businesses so people are misdirecting their anger. The casinos have been vigilant about enforcing the rules. The fines can be huge. At most restaurant if you have food or drink in front of you then a mask is not required. At casinos you have to lower your mask each time you drink and can’t linger over your food because they tell you to put your mask on. I am staying out of casinos until the mandate is done. I don’t blame them but don’t enjoy socializing with masks.
iris lilies
8-5-21, 9:46pm
This article does a good job of breaking down what happened with Provincetown. And probably about as good of a "real world" scenario of actual results as we'll get. They've been doing significant contact tracing and a group of middle to upper middle class gay men are very likely to follow up this situation by getting tested since HIV has made most of us very big fans of medicine and the importance of proactively looking after one's health.
My takeaway from the data from Provincetown is actually quite good:
Almost everyone was vaccinated, both local residents and vacationers. Estimated that as low as 1% weren't. All the venues where crowded parties were happening were requiring proof of vaccination.
60,000 tourists bringing germs from all over and swapping them in close ("carnival") quarters;
1,000 total cases, almost all mild or symptomless, so Pr(+ test) = 1.7%
750 cases among vaxed, so Pr("Breakthrough") = 1.25%
250 cases estimated among unvaxxed, so roughly 50%
7 hospitalized, so Pr(serious) = 0.0117%
And most importantly ZERO DEATHS
The ultimate takeaway is that the vaccines absolutely worked, and worked quite well.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/08/05/provincetown-covid-outbreak/
I can’t read the WaPo article because I have no paid subscription.
This is the same CDC study we reviewed on another thread. WaPO Included an estimate of the total population studied not just the population with Covid. I have been wondering about that but the CDC won’t be estimating the number of tourists in one area, That’s good, that’s not their role.
I agree that If those numbers are correct and that’s a low infection rate. I don’t know if the 60,000 number is true. But I also think it’s true that there are people in that population who had Covid who were not counted among the Covid persons because They can’t be testing everyone. Again I can’t read the article so I don’t know how they segregated their 60,000 people in order to get all the statistics.There’s some guesswork going into this.
But I agree, the vaccine is useful. It may stay that way or it may become diminishing in effectiveness.
After hospitalization/intubation, I worry about long Covid effects. Tammy here on this site has long Covid and can no longer work. I’m not sure she was hospitalized, I don’t think she was. does anyone remember? The other person I know who is debilitated with long Covid was not hospitalized either.
My point is that death is not the only serious outcome of Covid to look at. But it’s a very easy one to measure.
One of the things I have noted is that anecdotally a lot of the vaccinated covid infections seem to include loss of taste/smell. I had read in pre-vax times that that was believed to be an indication that the virus got into the brain. I have no idea if that idea still holds.
I'm also curious how common long covid is happening with breakthrough infections. Hopefully not often, but time will tell. The one person I know with long covid besides Tammy, has now had it for a year. The symptoms are less, but nowhere near zero. And for her the symptoms of long covid didn't start until about a month after the initial infection had subsided. And the initial infection only presented as loss of taste/smell. No fever, cough, or any of the other symptoms.
And since my last post I just found out that two very good friends (a couple) now both have covid. Both vaccinated for 3 months with no comorbidities other than well treated HBP for one, and both only having minor symptoms including loss of taste/smell. One had to go to a conference for work and believes he caught it there and brought it home. The other one works from home and both have been among the most cautious of our friends with regard to covid. For now they are staying isolated and will hopefully make full recoveries.
I do have to say there has been at least two positives that have come about because of Covid and I hope they stick around. One being the 6 feet apart thing in stores. Nothing like standing in line with the person behind you so close you can feel their breath on your neck. Second is doctors limiting appointments so their waiting rooms don't get crowded. Son had check up yesterday and we were in and out in about 35 minutes.
Public health authorities here in IL are urging people who were at Lollapolooza last weekend to get tested. Doubt that will happen much, but it will be interesting by mid next week (10 days after event) to see what’s going to happen with cases locally.
I've been wondering how Tammy is doing; I hope she is improving.
iris lilies
8-6-21, 10:45am
I do have to say there has been at least two positives that have come about because of Covid and I hope they stick around. One being the 6 feet apart thing in stores. Nothing like standing in line with the person behind you so close you can feel their breath on your neck. Second is doctors limiting appointments so their waiting rooms don't get crowded. Son had check up yesterday and we were in and out in about 35 minutes.
There are several good outcomes of Covid. I think we had a thread on that. I will look for it and if I can’t find it I’ll start one.
Lollapalooza attendee came back, developed a cough and sore throat, got tested negative for COVID. He's fully vaccinated, but that experience shook him a bit.
I've been wondering how Tammy is doing; I hope she is improving.
I have been in touch with Tammy. She is currently on LTD. Some of her symptoms resolved when she got vaccinated, which is very cool, but others remain.
I have been in touch with Tammy. She is currently on LTD. Some of her symptoms resolved when she got vaccinated, which is very cool, but others remain.
Thanks, Rosa! Please pass on my regards and wishes for quick and complete healing!
iris lilies
8-7-21, 9:17am
I have been in touch with Tammy. She is currently on LTD. Some of her symptoms resolved when she got vaccinated, which is very cool, but others remain.
Some recovery is good to hear.
Teacher Terry
8-7-21, 11:46pm
That’s good news about Tammy. I hope she makes a full recovery.
rosarugosa
8-10-21, 7:10am
DH and I went to our local Stop & Shop on Sunday to pick up a couple of things. Some idiot with a BULLHORN driving around the parking lot started following us and was hollering "take off the masks a$$hole$!" I still can't decide if it was more disturbing or hilarious!
That would be a call to the police for me.
Thanks, Rosa! Please pass on my regards and wishes for quick and complete healing!
Give her my best wishes as well, please.
And my best wishes, as well.
gimmethesimplelife
8-10-21, 1:22pm
That’s good news about Tammy. I hope she makes a full recovery.Yes, I do too. I sure miss her posts here. Rob
happystuff
8-10-21, 6:02pm
One of my bil's (lives in CA) just got diagnosed. It is presumed to be Delta for several reasons, but no idea as to how he got it, etc. He is vaccinated. My sister tested negative so they are living in separate areas of the house until it is safe for her. Other details, but not for sharing here. Just that it really is true that the Delta variant is EASY to catch and pass on to others especially when not taking any of the easy precautions!
One of my bil's (lives in CA) just got diagnosed. It is presumed to be Delta for several reasons, but no idea as to how he got it, etc. He is vaccinated.
It's almost certainly Delta (95%-ish), it has driven out most other variants in the USA, as it spreads so aggressively.
We had a social event here a few weeks ago, all people were vaccinated, or claimed to be. One person had Delta, and was unvaccinated. About a dozen new infections resulted from the gathering, many of them in vaccinated people. The several other unvaccinated people who were at the gathering, who had fibbed about their vaccination status, also got infected. This is the largest case cluster we've had here since the pandemic began.
This new stuff spreads like chicken pox. Beware.
People are now lying and saying they weren't vaccinated so they can get another dose, choosing to give themselves boosters.
People are now lying and saying they weren't vaccinated so they can get another dose, choosing to give themselves boosters.
Karen, is that you?
Here is an article on multi-vaxxers:
https://www.businessinsider.com/mulit-vaxxers-unauthorized-booster-shots-delta-variant-2021-8
It's almost certainly Delta (95%-ish), it has driven out most other variants in the USA, as it spreads so aggressively.
We had a social event here a few weeks ago, all people were vaccinated, or claimed to be. One person had Delta, and was unvaccinated. About a dozen new infections resulted from the gathering, many of them in vaccinated people. The several other unvaccinated people who were at the gathering, who had fibbed about their vaccination status, also got infected. This is the largest case cluster we've had here since the pandemic began.
This new stuff spreads like chicken pox. Beware.
Crap.... And here is me living in Lewis County... Where most of the population still is convinced that Covid is a hoax. I went unmasked one day, to the feed store . Next day, I have gone back to masking .
ApatheticNoMore
8-10-21, 8:08pm
Is someone somewhere doing something they haven't been given permission to do?
The states ability to keep track of vaccines administered and to whom, seems not so great to begin with (this would also be a problem for vaccine passports), and if vaccines are expiring and being thrown out anyway because unvaxed people are refusing them, why not I guess, except there's not really much evidence a 3rd shot is needed with mRNA at least. But ... but ... they shold be going to other countries. Yes, but that's beyond the ability of anyone getting a first or a 3rd vaccine to influence. Anymore than eating my broccoli is going to save the starving children.
Is someone somewhere doing something they haven't been given permission to do?
The states ability to keep track of vaccines administered seems not so great (would be a problem for vaccine passports), and if vaccines are expiring and being thrown out anyway because unvaxed people are refusing them, why not I guess, except there's not really much evidence a 3rd shot is needed with mRNA at least.
On the mainland within 5-6 miles of the ferry dock last week, I observed multiple locations with walk-in, no-appointment-needed, vaccination services advertised with big banners and such.
There at least in this region appears to be a surplus of vaccines, and plenty of people who won't take them.
There were people who lied or would have if they needed to in order to get initial vaccines. (We had one here.) So it shouldn't be surprising the same will happen with boosters.
We are having a serious discussion in our infectious disease control team here about getting boosters ASAP. We were all inoculated basically the first day of availability when the vaccines rolled out, our team's median age is 58, and there is credible data that shows that immune response drops off over time from the vaccination, especially in the older folks. We've been vaccinated for long enough to experience the drop, and are in the age range of concern.
Our community is experiencing our worst outbreak of the entire pandemic starting just a few weeks ago.
An interesting article about how the opposite of vaccine liars helped alert the CDC to the Provincetown situation much quicker than they would have otherwise figured things out. And it didn’t turn into a mass spreader event.
TLDR: Decades of gay men having to take personal responsibility for their health and that of their sexual partners leading to the free sharing of personal health info resulted in a rapid collection of data about who got infected and who they had been in contact with in Provincetown.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/06/1025553638/how-a-gay-community-helped-the-cdc-spot-a-covid-outbreak-and-learn-more-about-dehttps://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/06/1025553638/how-a-gay-community-helped-the-cdc-spot-a-covid-outbreak-and-learn-more-about-de?fbclid=IwAR3cxOTM_WngG-inZb2LQLI-VtFHqJqjFLQkHs0fa-3hLhiMa9IJrfeceMo
Teacher Terry
8-10-21, 11:24pm
My sister said that they are working on a booster that specifically targets Delta but yes I have heard of people getting a third shot.
We are keeping up with Austin Covid news since we lived there for so many years. They have close to 200 ICU cases today. ER's are packed. Mask mandates are being enacted even though the governor is trying to ban them. What's different is that even though there are many cases showing up, hospital stays are shorter and there are much fewer deaths than last time. At least that is what medical staff are saying. Personally, I keep hearing about vaccinated people getting sick here and there, ie breakthrough cases, but media makes it sound like it is only a tiny amount percentage wise.
Teacher Terry
8-11-21, 12:56am
Locally our first vaccinated person died but was in his 80’s.
rosarugosa
8-11-21, 5:45am
There were people who lied or would have if they needed to in order to get initial vaccines. (We had one here.) So it shouldn't be surprising the same will happen with boosters.
I'm more concerned about people claiming they were vaccinated when they were not, and obtaining fake vaccination cards.
...
Our community is experiencing our worst outbreak of the entire pandemic starting just a few weeks ago.
Yikes! I have friends heading your way--fully vaccinated, but I'll pass that along...
gimmethesimplelife
8-11-21, 9:22am
Our tenant's girlfriend - a woman who is from Nogales, Mexico interestingly enough - just lost her 30 year old cousin to the Coronavirus - don't know if the Delta variant or not - in Ciudad Obregon, Mexico. Tragic - so young. Rob
ApatheticNoMore
8-11-21, 10:04am
My bf got the two shot Pfizer vaccine. He tried to get a vaccination passport and the state only thinks he got one shot. And he signed up through the state website for the shots.
Now one can fight the bureaucracy I guess (do we spend way too much of our lives fighting bureaucracies), because as proof there are also the cards one got at vaccination, there is maybe the record from health insurance, maybe (who wants to deal with them either). Or what the hey there is just getting a 3rd shot, though I think J&J makes more sense to mix it up in that case.
ApatheticNoMore
8-11-21, 12:49pm
There is the record from the insurance company maybe, but that may well be coded wrong as they think I owe money on MY covid shot :laff: Does anyone really know how many covid shots anyone has, does anybody really care? But people should get vaccinated nontheless.
A job I could not do - manufacturer's rep. You have to go visit and schmooze with customers and butter them up. One came in today and was sitting and agreeing with all the boss's conspiracy theories, including that viruses don't circulate naturally in the summer because all the vitamin D from the sun kills them, so they must be introduced artificially - therefore the current outbreaks of covid are due to people getting vaccinated. Never mind that there is no live virus in the vaccines.
DD just called me and three of her vaccinated friends have symptomatic Covid. One of them has a child in the same daycare so naturally she is quite alarmed.
If what public health "experts" say is true, that existing vaccines protect against the Delta variant, maybe there is another yet to be identified and/or publicized variant out there that is infecting and sickening vaccinated people.
that existing vaccines protect against the Delta varian
If the mRNA vaccines are 90-95% effective against symptomatic covid, that 5-10% of the people vaccinated that get it anyways is still a lot of people. You don't need a theory of another variant to explain this.
Teacher Terry
8-11-21, 4:44pm
PT, really hoping that they all will come through fine.
If what public health "experts" say is true,....
Why the use of "snark quotes" around the word "experts"?
What are your public health credentials? Where do you practice, and in what fields? What papers have you published, or refereed? What journals do you edit?
Google U?
From tonight's news - the average age of a vaccinated person with a breakthrough case is 82.5. The percent having an underlying medical condition is 73%. Covid is believed to weakened these folks letting opportunistic infections kill them. Covid is not the cause of death (though you better believe it will be listed as such to be politically correct - my commentary is in parentheses, the rest is from the news, ABC affiliate).
These are the types of folks the FDA will now be letting get booster shots, but watch and you will see people say they smoke or have other conditions to try to get boosters.
Meanwhile let's hope those of us not in this demographic don't once again have a bunch of our civil rights taken away when we are not at risk from covid.
#IDidn'tGetVaccinatedForNothing
gimmethesimplelife
8-11-21, 6:13pm
DD just called me and three of her vaccinated friends have symptomatic Covid. One of them has a child in the same daycare so naturally she is quite alarmed.Ay carumba this is alarming! I was so hoping that we as a nation were on the downslope of covid and that maybe some vaccines could go from the first world to the third world so as to block this virus from more mutations. Now I'm thinking we may end out repeating those strange days at the beginning of the pandemic.
Wishing your DD's friends quick recoveries. Rob
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