View Full Version : Conavirus......
Have I shared this tracking site with you all?
https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en
In a CNN article today Dr. Sanjay Gupta writes that, "A billion of them [novel viruses] could fit on the head of a pin." A cloth covering will not screen out something that small. I think anyone not living in a cave or survivalist compound going to be exposed at some point. We have to learn to live with the virus.
We have to learn to live with the virus.
Die with it would be a more accurate statement considering that it will be millions of dead people when we give up trying to fight it.
I’m also curious what article you read by Dr. Gupta. The one I read certainly didn’t encourage a deadly herd immunity approach.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/17/health/coronavirus-human-body-gupta-essay/index.html
Die with it would be a more accurate statement considering that it will be millions of dead people when we give up trying to fight it.
I’m also curious what article you read by Dr. Gupta. The one I read certainly didn’t encourage a deadly herd immunity approach.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/17/health/coronavirus-human-body-gupta-essay/index.html
Yes, you have linked to the article I quoted. He also wrote, "Of course we want it [the virus] to die. We want to kill it. Render it lifeless. But that is impossible."
If you cannot kill it you have to learn to live with it.
As I mentioned previously a WHO official said covid could be like HIV, a virus that does not go away, albeit corona does not have the fatality rate of HIV, but of the flu. HIV has been around 40 years and I can't imagine too many people want to go 40 years without a haircut. We have to learn to live with covid.
Teacher Terry
5-17-20, 11:39am
Interesting Bae that’s it basically just a few groups driving a irresponsible plan which would kill many.
Why are people rising up?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/simonchandler/2020/04/24/security-researchers-say-the-reopen-america-campaign-is-being-astroturfed
Yeah, I've read that--with Trump basically giving them cover. Don't know why the average yahoo would show up unless they're like the Proud Boys and just love the brawling, or they're being paid. If I were a Canadian, I'd clamor for the borders to be closed permanently.
Teacher Terry
5-17-20, 11:54am
We had people protesting at our capital yesterday. Guns, no masks and grouped together. Real geniuses:((. We have been in phase one for 9 days and if cases continue to go down despite more testing we will hit phase two the end of this month. Some of my Wisconsin friends wish they were opening up slowly instead of all at once.
ApatheticNoMore
5-17-20, 11:59am
ever state has it's own definition of phases though, I mean some included opening up restaurants in early phases, seems nuts to me.
I've been thinking lately that if I owned a small business such as a restaurant or hair or nail salon I'd rent space in a hardware store parking lot and place tables to serve food, or put a workstation in a liquor store for grooming purposes. Or maybe if I could swing a liquor license for my barber shop I could give a haircut with every inflated liquor purchase.
If you cannot kill it you have to learn to live with it.
False.
What is smallpox? What is rinderpest?
Teacher Terry
5-17-20, 1:05pm
Our restaurants are in phase one but at 50% capacity.
I've been thinking lately that if I owned a small business such as a restaurant or hair or nail salon I'd rent space in a hardware store parking lot and place tables to serve food, or put a workstation in a liquor store for grooming purposes. Or maybe if I could swing a liquor license for my barber shop I could give a haircut with every inflated liquor purchase.
I don't think you could get away with it. Nail and hair salons inside Walmart are closed, as are bank branches.
Yes, you have linked to the article I quoted. He also wrote, "Of course we want it [the virus] to die. We want to kill it. Render it lifeless. But that is impossible."
If you cannot kill it you have to learn to live with it.
As I mentioned previously a WHO official said covid could be like HIV, a virus that does not go away, albeit corona does not have the fatality rate of HIV, but of the flu. HIV has been around 40 years and I can't imagine too many people want to go 40 years without a haircut. We have to learn to live with covid.
I understand now why I didn't recognize it as the same article you read. Apparently you didn't read the rest of it.
That is why I'm worried about my patient right now. In this case, the United States of America. We have been infected, and we are only part way through the miserable therapy. If we stop now, however, it may not just be back to square 1. We may be worse off than we started. The metaphorical resistant bacteria may be unleashed.
Getting through this together means listening to the recommendations from health experts, understanding the rationale, being thorough about the treatment, and not giving up part way through.
ApatheticNoMore
5-17-20, 2:42pm
No country on earth is even close to herd immunity or even infecting more than a tiny portion of the population, even those with massive deaths per capita, nor NYC for that matter, even if that was possible (and it could easily overwhelm the hospital system before then, certainly would it cases peaked that high before 2021). So yea ...
If we stop now, however, it may not just be back to square 1. We may be worse off than we started
obviously we might be worse off than we started since there is more coronavirus out there than say mid-March when lockdowns started, so cases start from a higher point and grow from there seems to me.
I understand now why I didn't recognize it as the same article you read. Apparently you didn't read the rest of it.
That is why I'm worried about my patient right now. In this case, the United States of America. We have been infected, and we are only part way through the miserable therapy. If we stop now, however, it may not just be back to square 1. We may be worse off than we started. The metaphorical resistant bacteria may be unleashed.
Getting through this together means listening to the recommendations from health experts, understanding the rationale, being thorough about the treatment, and not giving up part way through.
Same data, different conclusions.
Teacher Terry
5-17-20, 8:48pm
Even if everything opened tomorrow it doesn’t mean the economy will go back to normal. Many people won’t go out regardless and spend money. I know you are scared to lose your job but opening up isn’t going to guarantee your business will be immune from layoffs. Things have changed for quite awhile. No easy or quick answer.
I've been thinking lately that if I owned a small business such as a restaurant or hair or nail salon I'd rent space in a hardware store parking lot and place tables to serve food, or put a workstation in a liquor store for grooming purposes. Or maybe if I could swing a liquor license for my barber shop I could give a haircut with every inflated liquor purchase.
I'd think an open air barber shop would be a good venture in good weather. I'd go for it over some of the cramped incubators some of the barber shops have. Maybe car hops and in-car dining could be popular.
Interesting Bae that’s it basically just a few groups driving a irresponsible plan which would kill many.
I'm curious TT, if you think it is irresponsible to reopen the economy why are you going out to eat and to get your hair done?
Same data, different conclusions.
I’ll stick to listening to the experts.
How trustworthy is the data? I’ve seen some claims that deaths are being underreported due to insufficient testing. I’ve read that Dr Deborah Birx has said the CDC is over reposting deaths by about a quarter due to including people who die with the disease along with people who die of the disease. Cases have been reported of people dying of drug overdoses or slip and fall injuries being reported as Covid 19 deaths because they tested positive for the virus at the time of death.
iris lilies
5-18-20, 9:53am
How trustworthy is the data? I’ve seen some claims that deaths are being underreported due to insufficient testing. I’ve read that Dr Deborah Birx has said the CDC is over reposting deaths by about a quarter due to including people who die with the disease along with people who die of the disease. Cases have been reported of people dying of drug overdoses or slip and fall injuries being reported as Covid 19 deaths because they tested positive for the virus at the time of death.
And we are going to see the number of COVID-19 cases increase because testing is going to be increased. More testing, more positive ID.
As for deaths, we humans are complex biological machines. I don’t know what my mother died of as far as what the death certificate said, but her organs gave out as a result of extreme Alzheimer’s disease. So yeah Alzheimer’s killed her but her heart stopped. That’s ultimately what kills all of us, our heart stops.
My brother in law died in February, he had been sick for a week or so with pneumoina like symptoms but he died of a drug overdose, combination of heroin and fentanyl. I suspect if he had died this month he would have been counted as a Covid-19 fatality.
happystuff
5-18-20, 11:14am
My brother in law died in February, he had been sick for a week or so with pneumoina like symptoms but he died of a drug overdose, combination of heroin and fentanyl. I suspect if he had died this month he would have been counted as a Covid-19 fatality.
My condolences to family and friends on the loss of your brother-in-law.
And we are going to see the number of COVID-19 cases increase because testing is going to be increased. More testing, more positive ID.
As for deaths, we humans are complex biological machines. I don’t know what my mother died of as far as what the death certificate said, but her organs gave out as a result of extreme Alzheimer’s disease. So yeah Alzheimer’s killed her but her heart stopped. That’s ultimately what kills all of us, our heart stops.
Dad died of lung cancer at age 70. Listed cause of death? Natural causes. Um, OK. Smoking for 50 years had nothing to do with it?
My brother in law died in February, he had been sick for a week or so with pneumoina like symptoms but he died of a drug overdose, combination of heroin and fentanyl. I suspect if he had died this month he would have been counted as a Covid-19 fatality.
I'm so sorry Alan.
Teacher Terry
5-18-20, 12:22pm
I am so sorry Alan. Y, some states aren’t acting responsibly like Wisconsin. Nevada is opening slowly and our numbers meet the government guidelines. My hairdresser is a one person shop. We have eaten outside a few times. If I lived in Chicago I wouldn’t be going anywhere. My husband goes back to work Wednesday in San Jose so I will be getting more exposure regardless.
I was up in WI diving this weekend, near Black River Falls. About a 3.5 hour drive from where I live in the NW suburbs of Chicago. Class with 3 other students and instructor. Other friends from the Chicago area were up as well. We cooked out Saturday evening. We mostly social distanced. Back up there this coming weekend to dive with a friend.
How trustworthy is the data? I’ve seen some claims that deaths are being underreported due to insufficient testing. I’ve read that Dr Deborah Birx has said the CDC is over reposting deaths by about a quarter due to including people who die with the disease along with people who die of the disease. Cases have been reported of people dying of drug overdoses or slip and fall injuries being reported as Covid 19 deaths because they tested positive for the virus at the time of death.
I'm not sure that reducing 90,000 reported deaths by a fourth would really make a difference in the big scheme of things. I can imagine there are cases where a person with underlying conditions challenges their immune system with CV-19 and the exact cause of death may be complicated.
I am so sorry Alan. Y, some states aren’t acting responsibly like Wisconsin. Nevada is opening slowly and our numbers meet the government guidelines. My hairdresser is a one person shop. We have eaten outside a few times. If I lived in Chicago I wouldn’t be going anywhere. My husband goes back to work Wednesday in San Jose so I will be getting more exposure regardless.
For all the talk of “irresponsible” Wisconsin, we compare favorably with our neighbors in deaths per 100,000 population (per statists.com). So far, Wisconsin has experienced 8 per 100,000, Iowa 11, Minnesota 13, Illinois 33 and Michigan 49.
For all the talk of “irresponsible” Wisconsin, we compare favorably with our neighbors in deaths per 100,000 population (per statists.com). So far, Wisconsin has experienced 8 per 100,000, Iowa 11, Minnesota 13, Illinois 33 and Michigan 49.
502 new cases on May 16 alone. Yup, celebration time for sure!:( Please point us to the 14 consecutive days of dropping new cases in order to open up safely.
https://www.google.com/search?q=wisconsin+coronavirus+map&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS867US868&oq=wisconsin+co&aqs=chrome.7.0j69i57j0l6.10006j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
dado potato
5-18-20, 2:32pm
For all the talk of “irresponsible” Wisconsin, we compare favorably with our neighbors in deaths per 100,000 population (per statists.com). So far, Wisconsin has experienced 8 per 100,000, Iowa 11, Minnesota 13, Illinois 33 and Michigan 49.
@ LDAHL,
As of May 18, the death rate due to COVID-19 was as you say in those 5 states.
The lowest death rate (in 3 states) was 1 per 100,000.
The highest death rates were:
NY 145
NJ 117
CT 96
MA 84
As of May 13, an international comparison:
USA 27.9
Canada 15.76
Sweden 36.31
South Korea .51
Australia .40
Iceland .21
Source: http://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi19-death-rates-us-by-state
ApatheticNoMore
5-18-20, 2:38pm
Talk about driving while looking in the rear view mirror. No death total from reopening could possible be known until at least a month afterward (and more if their are delays in reporting etc.), because two weeks to hospitalization, another 2 to death.
And that's assuming you went out to a bar that day and caught deadly covid that day or something, which is probably less than the people affected through community spread because the thing is spreading and growing in the community, and so people are getting it even without being completely reckless and crazy, and that probably takes even longer for those cases to show up. That's why we have experts giving advice and not people looking in the rear view mirror for long term effects of policies only now being enacted. There's lots of variables of course, and there may be unknowns as well of course.
https://scontent.fboi1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s403x403/98830017_10163570466110324_8651846549866807296_n.j pg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=L2ThJOKpzmYAX_9lK-a&_nc_ht=scontent.fboi1-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=a2a38e3d1f1b725ca8be4ea0eebda7fa&oe=5EE97B15
https://scontent.fboi1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s403x403/98830017_10163570466110324_8651846549866807296_n.j pg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=L2ThJOKpzmYAX_9lK-a&_nc_ht=scontent.fboi1-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=a2a38e3d1f1b725ca8be4ea0eebda7fa&oe=5EE97B15
“Dangerous” is relative. Just ask an expert. For all the politically motivated pearl-clutching over Wisconsin political battles the last couple of months, Wisconsin has been relatively safer than it’s neighbors. It’s even been safer than Canada. It’s possible that could change in the future as different states accept different levels of risk (which they all must), but that doesn’t make them ignorant yahoos.
For all the talk of “irresponsible” Wisconsin, we compare favorably with our neighbors in deaths per 100,000 population (per statists.com). So far, Wisconsin has experienced 8 per 100,000, Iowa 11, Minnesota 13, Illinois 33 and Michigan 49.But Wisconsin has a Republican majority legislature, you'd almost certainly have 0 per 100,000 if those Republicans didn't like killing people so much.
It’s possible that could change in the future as different states accept different levels of risk (which they all must), but that doesn’t make them ignorant yahoos.
I believe the preferred term is "rednecks" as in "all those uneducable rednecks refusing to listen to me".
I am so sorry Alan. Y, some states aren’t acting responsibly like Wisconsin. Nevada is opening slowly and our numbers meet the government guidelines. My hairdresser is a one person shop. We have eaten outside a few times. If I lived in Chicago I wouldn’t be going anywhere. My husband goes back to work Wednesday in San Jose so I will be getting more exposure regardless.
My philosophy is also I am exposed anyways through my job, so why should I be restricted? Let high risk people stay home, pay them to stay home with tax dollars, deliver things to them, so long as they are willing to stay home. But don't curtail my freedoms because 1) you think you're protecting me when I'm already at risk and 2) vulnerable people who could stay home don't have the self-discipline to do so.
frugal-one
5-18-20, 6:12pm
“Dangerous” is relative. Just ask an expert. For all the politically motivated pearl-clutching over Wisconsin political battles the last couple of months, Wisconsin has been relatively safer than it’s neighbors. It’s even been safer than Canada. It’s possible that could change in the future as different states accept different levels of risk (which they all must), but that doesn’t make them ignorant yahoos.
The reason WI was safer is because of being shutdown. Watch and see what happens now.
frugal-one
5-18-20, 6:16pm
But Wisconsin has a Republican majority legislature, you'd almost certainly have 0 per 100,000 if those Republicans didn't like killing people so much.
Could be... do as trump does, don't wear a mask and tell everyone to open up those sports arenas. Hey, we need to get everyone out there! Unlike trump, we are not all tested daily. My hope is he gets the virus so he has some perspective of what is really going on. I would bet he would change his tune. Look at Boris Johnson... I read today that he thinks it may be a long time (if ever) that a vaccine will be available. Unlike trump, who is saying the vaccine will be available by year end. Although trump also said the virus would be gone by April.
frugal-one
5-18-20, 6:17pm
My philosophy is also I am exposed anyways through my job, so why should I be restricted? Let high risk people stay home, pay them to stay home with tax dollars, deliver things to them, so long as they are willing to stay home. But don't curtail my freedoms because 1) you think you're protecting me when I'm already at risk and 2) vulnerable people who could stay home don't have the self-discipline to do so,
We KNOW what you think. You keep yapping about it daily.
frugal-one
5-18-20, 6:21pm
Associated Press article today...
GREECE: Churches throughout the country opened up their doors to the faithful after two months. They limited the number of congregates and dispenses disinfectant outside, but Holy Communion was given using the same spoon.
We KNOW what you think. You keep yapping about it daily.
Thank you for quoting my post in yours. I love to see my common sense ideas get greater exposure.
Associated Press article today...
GREECE: Churches throughout the country opened up their doors to the faithful after two months. They limited the number of congregates and dispenses disinfectant outside, but Holy Communion was given using the same spoon.
Maybe they've been listening to Kelly Clarkson. "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger..." It's true - you develop protective antibodies.
frugal-one
5-18-20, 6:35pm
Thank you for quoting my post in yours. I love to see my common sense ideas get greater exposure.
No one said it was common sense.
Teacher Terry
5-18-20, 6:41pm
This thread is really getting ridiculous! We have no clue if a herd immunity will be developed.
ApatheticNoMore
5-18-20, 6:44pm
do we know for sure people develop protective antibodies? No we don't know yet. Do we know even if they did how long the antibodies would last, afterall it could just be a few months? No we don't know yet. Do we know that it might not make you WEAKER and more vulnerable should you catch it again or get something else because it's damaged organs which might set them up for vulnerability later? No we don't know. But yea an awful (covers ears begging for mercy) pop song derivative Nietzsche sure is where I want to get my covid news. I know people want to hope for this and that, oh very well take what hope you must, but just let's not pretend this isn't hope beyond what we actually know.
ApatheticNoMore
5-18-20, 6:46pm
This thread is really getting ridiculous! We have no clue if a herd immunity will be developed.
+1000
I'm not sure that reducing 90,000 reported deaths by a fourth would really make a difference in the big scheme of things. I can imagine there are cases where a person with underlying conditions challenges their immune system with CV-19 and the exact cause of death may be complicated.
Also complicating is that people are dying of non-covid causes because they are scared to go to the hospital and possibly catch covid. If their death is due to fear of covid, does that count as a covid death?
do we know for sure people develop protective antibodies? No we don't know yet. Do we know even if they did how long the antibodies would last, afterall it could just be a few months? No we don't know yet. Do we know that it might not make you WEAKER and more vulnerable should you catch it again or get something else because it's damaged organs which might set them up for vulnerability later? No we don't know. But yea an awful (covers ears begging for mercy) pop song derivative Nietzsche sure is where I want to get my covid news. I know people want to hope for this and that, but this is hope beyond what we actually know.
Do people develop antibodies? Yes. That is why plasma donation works and has saved lives.
Do we know long the antibodies last? No, the virus is too new for us to know.
iris lilies
5-18-20, 7:14pm
Also complicating is that people are dying of non-covid causes because they are scared to go to the hospital and possibly catch covid. If their death is due to fear of covid, does that count as a covid death?
Hmmm, judges? Can we have a ruling on that?
The whole reason researchers are trying to develop a vaccine is because vaccines generate antibodies to the virus. Antibodies are key, and I wish there were more antibody testing and research.
dado potato
5-18-20, 7:29pm
@Tradd,
I hope your visits to Wisconsin are all pleasurable. Also, I hope that wherever you go, residents treat you well during your visit.
Be safe!
I’ll stick to listening to the experts.
Maybe the difference between us is you are more interested in the herd mentality of the medical and media establishment and I am more interested in herd immunity.
If I heard you right.
The reason WI was safer is because of being shutdown. Watch and see what happens now.
Was it shut down more effectively than all the bordering states? Even during the notorious primary election? Are it’s people more law-abiding and better educated than Minnesota? Is it’s medical establishment more efficient than Illinois? I doubt it. There are many variables at play here. Every location will need to make the decision of when and how to reopen. An economy is not optional. I don’t see that those choosing somewhat sooner are ignorant monsters any more than those choosing somewhat later are enlightened and compassionate.
Is nobody studying countries that have seen much better responses than this one? (e.g. South Korea)
I know it's too much to ask of the current federal government, but still...
gimmethesimplelife
5-18-20, 8:34pm
Well said, JP, and this is certainly how I feel.Me too. Rob
Is nobody studying countries that have seen much better responses than this one? (e.g. South Korea)
I know it's too much to ask of the current federal government, but still...
Much better response?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52702075
ApatheticNoMore
5-18-20, 8:41pm
we have 90k deaths but at least we also get upset about sex dolls, at least that has to count for something. >8)
Much better response?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52702075
Hahaha! Sex dolls with masks! Well done, Korea.
@Tradd,
I hope your visits to Wisconsin are all pleasurable. Also, I hope that wherever you go, residents treat you well during your visit.
Be safe!
Someone started to give me some of the FIB nonsense when they saw my license plate, but I told them I'm a Michigander in exile in the People's Republic of IL. They went away laughing.
Teacher Terry
5-18-20, 9:08pm
The medical experts suggest opening slowly in stages to keep the virus slowed down. The number of deaths is really sad.
Much better response?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52702075
For those of us who consider a country's response effectiveness to mainly be derived by the death toll, yeah, they've done much better. 263 deaths in a country with roughly 1/6 our population. If we had done as well we'd have 1500 deaths currently instead of roughly 90,000. But hey, most of those 88,500 additional dead people were going to die in the next few years anyway so they don't really count. Amiright?
I'm cautiously optimistic that immunity will happen. A dear friend who is working on his MS degree with a focus on viruses regularly posts articles on facebook related to this topic. Since he's got a relevant science background I trust that he's able to tell what is legitimate research and not posting fluff that is just magical thinking. This is the latest article he posted.
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/sars-cov-2fighting-t-cells-found-in-recovered-patients-67540?utm_content=129603914&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&hss_channel=fbp-212009668822281&fbclid=IwAR3--JK20bQDQwo_zCLVKZR7BtZyJY-3XskBqTc_tgyOHBnXMlSB-5qnt48
Although it doesn’t provide a conclusive answer, a study published yesterday (May 14) in Cell appears to be good news on the immunity front. Researchers at the La Jolla Institute for Immunology in California took blood from 20 adults who’d recovered from COVID-19 and exposed the samples to proteins from the SARS-CoV-2 virus. All of the patients had CD4+ helper T cells that recognized the virus’s spike protein, and 70 percent of them had CD8+ killer T cells that responded to the same protein. “Our data show that the virus induces what you would expect from a typical, successful antiviral response,” says coauthor Shane Crotty in an institute press release.
I'm still going to practice social distancing and other steps to try and prevent getting infected because, as others have pointed out, we just don't know the long-term effects of this virus. If possible I'd rather not learn the hard way that Covid causes damage to the body over time, or that it lies dormant for a period of time and then lashes out as a completely different illness the way the chickenpox virus does.
rosarugosa
5-19-20, 6:14am
The medical experts suggest opening slowly in stages to keep the virus slowed down. The number of deaths is really sad.
That's what the plan is for Massachusetts, and I can't believe how many in my state are enraged at the governor for not opening everything completely and immediately. I find it reassuring that we are proceeding cautiously.
That's what the plan is for Massachusetts, and I can't believe how many in my state are enraged at the governor for not opening everything completely and immediately. I find it reassuring that we are proceeding cautiously.
They are also upset at the randomness of the plan. In Phase 1 you can get a haircut where you can't distance, but you can't have one customer at a time in a retail store by appointment. An example given was you can't go to a jeweller to buy a wedding ring, but you can buy a ring at Walmart.
frugal-one
5-19-20, 9:20am
Was it shut down more effectively than all the bordering states? Even during the notorious primary election? Are it’s people more law-abiding and better educated than Minnesota? Is it’s medical establishment more efficient than Illinois? I doubt it. There are many variables at play here. Every location will need to make the decision of when and how to reopen. An economy is not optional. I don’t see that those choosing somewhat sooner are ignorant monsters any more than those choosing somewhat later are enlightened and compassionate.
You can thank the Republicans of the state for the election taking place during a pandemic. You can thank the Republicans for opening the state willy nilly. You can thank trump for not being a leader and guiding states on how to open up in a safer fashion. When the numbers go up I hope the people of WI and the nation take notice.
I'm cautiously optimistic that immunity will happen. A dear friend who is working on his MS degree with a focus on viruses regularly posts articles on facebook related to this topic. Since he's got a relevant science background I trust that he's able to tell what is legitimate research and not posting fluff that is just magical thinking. This is the latest article he posted.
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/sars-cov-2fighting-t-cells-found-in-recovered-patients-67540?utm_content=129603914&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&hss_channel=fbp-212009668822281&fbclid=IwAR3--JK20bQDQwo_zCLVKZR7BtZyJY-3XskBqTc_tgyOHBnXMlSB-5qnt48
Although it doesn’t provide a conclusive answer, a study published yesterday (May 14) in Cell appears to be good news on the immunity front. Researchers at the La Jolla Institute for Immunology in California took blood from 20 adults who’d recovered from COVID-19 and exposed the samples to proteins from the SARS-CoV-2 virus. All of the patients had CD4+ helper T cells that recognized the virus’s spike protein, and 70 percent of them had CD8+ killer T cells that responded to the same protein. “Our data show that the virus induces what you would expect from a typical, successful antiviral response,” says coauthor Shane Crotty in an institute press release.
I'm still going to practice social distancing and other steps to try and prevent getting infected because, as others have pointed out, we just don't know the long-term effects of this virus. If possible I'd rather not learn the hard way that Covid causes damage to the body over time, or that it lies dormant for a period of time and then lashes out as a completely different illness the way the chickenpox virus does.
A friend of a friend is still struggling with COVID19 after two months--fever, weakness, trouble breathing, etc. At this point, no one knows why some people are hit so hard by it, or what its after-effects may be.
You can thank the Republicans of the state for the election taking place during a pandemic. You can thank the Republicans for opening the state willy nilly. You can thank trump for not being a leader and guiding states on how to open up in a safer fashion. When the numbers go up I hope the people of WI and the nation take notice.
I thank the Republicans for not pretending there’s a fear of virus clause in the State constitution that grants the executive arbitrary powers.
I think our leaders have a duty to listen to specialists but not defer to them. I think too many people of all political stripes are trying to twist this situation into just another red versus blue thing. I’ve seen no evidence that this virus has a political affiliation.
frugal-one
5-19-20, 11:06am
I thank the Republicans for not pretending there’s a fear of virus clause in the State constitution that grants the executive arbitrary powers.
I think our leaders have a duty to listen to specialists but not defer to them. I think too many people of all political stripes are trying to twist this situation into just another red versus blue thing. I’ve seen no evidence that this virus has a political affiliation.
The political affiliation is VERY evident in WI. The Republicans are trying to strip any power of the current governor.... things that the previous Republican governor had. I am not going to go look everything up to justify. There are many documented instances. I think it IS duty of our leaders to listen to experts (ie specialists) and take their recommendations. Not like trump now taking hydroxychloroquine based on what he hears from others and not listening to experts. One of the side effects, I hear, is losing your hair. Wouldn't that be poetic justice?
I don't believe Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine. I don't believe anything he says without checking reliable sources. It's incredibly irresponsible that he's pushing an untested and likely dangerous drug to a gullible public.
ApatheticNoMore
5-19-20, 11:52am
I don't believe Trump is taking hydroxychloroquine. I don't believe anything he says without checking reliable sources. It's incredibly irresponsible that he's pushing an unknown and likely dangerous drug to a gullible public.
He's probably taking something but who knows what, probably amphetamines, circumstantial evidence for that. I mean even hydroxychloroquine could in certain circumstances cause psychosis, but my guess would be it's amphetamines with the dual diagnosis of a personality disorder that is causing his psychosis.
As for hydroxychloroquine I'll leave that to scientists and medical professionals to study.
The political affiliation is VERY evident in WI. The Republicans are trying to strip any power of the current governor.... things that the previous Republican governor had. I am not going to go look everything up to justify. There are many documented instances. I think it IS duty of our leaders to listen to experts (ie specialists) and take their recommendations. Not like trump now taking hydroxychloroquine based on what he hears from others and not listening to experts. One of the side effects, I hear, is losing your hair. Wouldn't that be poetic justice?
The authoritarian elements of our society have always viewed times when large numbers of people are afraid as an opportunity to advance their agenda. No matter what schedule states choose (and they must choose) to begin relaxing restrictions, they will strive to smear whatever blood they can on their ideological enemies.
Teacher Terry
5-19-20, 12:47pm
Our state is allowing voting in person on one day but a month ago sent all registered voters a mail in ballot for a election in June. They want people to not have to come in person. Wisconsin could have done that.
Our state is allowing voting in person on one day but a month ago sent all registered voters a mail in ballot for a election in June. They want people to not have to come in person. Wisconsin could have done that.
Republicans live in fear of mail in balloting. And yes, WI could have done that but they feared losing. Jokes on them! They lost:D
Comedian Noel Casler (with corroboration by others), who worked with Trump for years on The Apprentice, says he's on an Adderall/benzodiazapene combo, and has been for a long, long time.
Republicans live in fear of mail in balloting. And yes, WI could have done that but they feared losing. Jokes on them! They lost:D
We did all mail in ballots in Ohio for the March primary election due to the Covid-19 crisis (with the election timeline changed to April) and had lots of problems. Lots of households receiving too many or too few ballots and an issue with the USPS not delivering completed ballots back to various boards of election in time to be counted. Lots of opportunity for abuse, I'd think that would be more of a non-partisan issue but I guess not.
We did all mail in ballots in Ohio for the March primary election due to the Covid-19 crisis (with the election timeline changed to April) and had lots of problems. .
My State has been doing entirely vote-by-mail for years and years now, and it seems to work just fine.
frugal-one
5-19-20, 2:25pm
Our state is allowing voting in person on one day but a month ago sent all registered voters a mail in ballot for a election in June. They want people to not have to come in person. Wisconsin could have done that.
The current governor wanted that.... the Republicans said no. However, Evers should have requested sooner.
My State has been doing entirely vote-by-mail for years and years now, and it seems to work just fine.
I'm not surprised that a hastily conceived and executed vote-by-mail program would have problems, but Oregon and Washington have had theirs in place for years with few problems and wide acceptance.
gimmethesimplelife
5-19-20, 4:45pm
My brother in law died in February, he had been sick for a week or so with pneumoina like symptoms but he died of a drug overdose, combination of heroin and fentanyl. I suspect if he had died this month he would have been counted as a Covid-19 fatality.I just saw your post here and wanted to say I'm sorry. What a horrible way to go. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-19-20, 4:58pm
Sunday night I met a friend of mine from college in Scottsdale on the Scottsdale Waterfront. It is a ritzy part of town inhabited by folks living in another America - one of which I'd normally only visit in my best thrift shop clothes to pose as upper middle class for snobby but well paying high end retail mystery shops.
Point? I walked by a very expensive restaurant that was open for sit down dining (now OK in Arizona) and was really disillusioned and disgusted with the upper end clientele that were visible. Though the servers were all wearing masks, the clientele were not, nor was social distancing being practiced. AND THIS FROM PEOPLE WHO CAN AFFORD TO DINE ON THE SCOTTSDALE WATERFRONT!!!!!
This last in all caps as you'd think such folks would be educated enough to know better. I am just floored and felt as if I WERE SLUMMING IN REVERSE (all caps due to what a concept). Where I live, most of us - though not 100 percent to be honest - are wearing masks. I'd say 75 to 80 percent in my neighborhood. Utterly amazing, I would not have believed it unless I saw it for myself. Rob
I just saw your post here and wanted to say I'm sorry. What a horrible way to go. RobThanks Rob, oddly enough I think he went exactly as he wanted.
I walked by a very expensive restaurant that was open for sit down dining (now OK in Arizona) and was really disillusioned and disgusted with the upper end clientele that were visible. Though the servers were all wearing masks, the clientele were not, nor was social distancing being practiced. AND THIS FROM PEOPLE WHO CAN AFFORD TO DINE ON THE SCOTTSDALE WATERFRONT!!!!!
I haven't tried eating a meal while wearing a mask yet, is it difficult?
gimmethesimplelife
5-19-20, 5:12pm
I haven't tried eating a meal while wearing a mask yet, is it difficult?Fair point, Alan. Let me be clear - the majority of diners I observed were seemingly waiting on meals. I understand you can't eat with a mask on - maybe a topic for another thread regarding reopening? Rob
My State has been doing entirely vote-by-mail for years and years now, and it seems to work just fine.
Oregon has been mail only since 1997 and those I know there, love it!
ApatheticNoMore
5-19-20, 5:18pm
I discovered you can't eat with a mask, brought my mom breakfast for mothers day, already served myself in my own bowl so no shared utensils, left serving bowl on the chair outside while mom was inside so no close contact, she didn't get the serving bowl until I had moved well away, scattered some 30 feet away or something, in the yard, tried to eat with a cloth mask, oh yea I can't eat with a mask! Took off the mask, ate, I'm like 30 feet away outdoors. Put the mask back on when I was done. This is mothers day brunch eaten "together".
ToomuchStuff
5-19-20, 6:23pm
Fair point, Alan. Let me be clear - the majority of diners I observed were seemingly waiting on meals. I understand you can't eat with a mask on - maybe a topic for another thread regarding reopening? Rob
Awaiting at tables with glasses in front of them?
Hmmm, judges? Can we have a ruling on that?
Tonight's NBC Nightly News had parents saying Covid-related stay at home orders led to their daughter being killed in a domestic violence case. Judges here's something else you can weigh in on. Covid death or not?
Teacher Terry
5-19-20, 7:06pm
Domestic violence is way up. Stuck together for long periods of time and money troubles often contribute. She should have left.
dado potato
5-19-20, 7:09pm
I was out on a bicycle ride a few days ago, and I passed by the deck of a tavern in a nearby town. I saw and overheard a young couple being seated by a (masked) waitress. I thought those two good people were about to enjoy brats and beer, while they take in the view of the river and the rapids.
Now, I wouldn't go into any tavern before I was vaccinated, and I would require the new cases of COVID-19 in my state to be in decline. But I am an Old Croc. I look at the risk of infection with Old Croc eyes.
My choice.
But I believe those two sweethearts at the tavern ought to have their choice too. I remember how divine it can be to bite into a brat in a good bun, on a sunny day, beside a river.
ToomuchStuff
5-19-20, 7:29pm
According to LEO's I have talked to, yes, domestic violence is up. We expect both a boom of divorces as well as a baby boom.
I have a friend, who is awaiting the courts to open, as they need a court order to get rid of a garage/basement full of a soon to be ex b-i-l's stuff (inherited from three people). Thankfully they were living apart, before the lockdown. The house and barn need to be emptied so it can be sold, neither can afford to keep the house and they are not wanting to communicate.
ApatheticNoMore
5-19-20, 7:51pm
Meanwhile the waitress is immuno-compromised but you can't see it, and has to work because unemployment will be cut otherwise leaving little choice. Maybe.
frugal-one
5-19-20, 8:12pm
The authoritarian elements of our society have always viewed times when large numbers of people are afraid as an opportunity to advance their agenda. No matter what schedule states choose (and they must choose) to begin relaxing restrictions, they will strive to smear whatever blood they can on their ideological enemies.
Yeah, Gov Walker did that with the pensions in the UW system, also police and firefighters in WI. If you remember, WI was in the news then too. The Republicans continue to override what the majority of the public wants to the detriment of the state.
frugal-one
5-19-20, 8:23pm
I was out on a bicycle ride a few days ago, and I passed by the deck of a tavern in a nearby town. I saw and overheard a young couple being seated by a (masked) waitress. I thought those two good people were about to enjoy brats and beer, while they take in the view of the river and the rapids.
Now, I wouldn't go into any tavern before I was vaccinated, and I would require the new cases of COVID-19 in my state to be in decline. But I am an Old Croc. I look at the risk of infection with Old Croc eyes.
My choice.
But I believe those two sweethearts at the tavern ought to have their choice too. I remember how divine it can be to bite into a brat in a good bun, on a sunny day, beside a river.
You definitely are from WI! I wonder if everyone knows what you are talking about?
Yeah, Gov Walker did that with the pensions in the UW system, also police and firefighters in WI. If you remember, WI was in the news then too. The Republicans continue to override what the majority of the public wants to the detriment of the state.
Police and firefighters were not affected by Act 10. I don’t recall that the public was all that outraged by UW employees paying for half their pension contribution.
frugal-one
5-20-20, 2:41am
Police and firefighters were not affected by Act 10. I don’t recall that the public was all that outraged by UW employees paying for half their pension contribution.
Act 10 in WI: The legislation primarily affected the following areas: collective bargaining, compensation, retirement, health insurance, and sick leave of public sector employees. In response, unions and other groups organized protests inside and around the state capitol.
The public sector employs teachers, police officers, firefighters and numerous critical jobs designed to maintain a safe, productive community.
Act 10 in WI: The legislation primarily affected the following areas: collective bargaining, compensation, retirement, health insurance, and sick leave of public sector employees. In response, unions and other groups organized protests inside and around the state capitol.
The public sector employs teachers, police officers, firefighters and numerous critical jobs designed to maintain a safe, productive community.
The Act specifically exempted public safety employees such as police and firefighters.
The unions did indeed make all the noise they could. They especially detested the provision that employers would no longer deduct union dues from paychecks, effectively making membership voluntary. The county government I worked for went from seven collective bargaining units to one (sheriff’s deputies). Somehow the world didn’t end.
iris lilies
5-20-20, 3:05pm
Sunday night I met a friend of mine from college in Scottsdale on the Scottsdale Waterfront. It is a ritzy part of town inhabited by folks living in another America - one of which I'd normally only visit in my best thrift shop clothes to pose as upper middle class for snobby but well paying high end retail mystery shops.
Point? I walked by a very expensive restaurant that was open for sit down dining (now OK in Arizona) and was really disillusioned and disgusted with the upper end clientele that were visible. Though the servers were all wearing masks, the clientele were not, nor was social distancing being practiced. AND THIS FROM PEOPLE WHO CAN AFFORD TO DINE ON THE SCOTTSDALE WATERFRONT!!!!!
This last in all caps as you'd think such folks would be educated enough to know better. I am just floored and felt as if I WERE SLUMMING IN REVERSE (all caps due to what a concept). Where I live, most of us - though not 100 percent to be honest - are wearing masks. I'd say 75 to 80 percent in my neighborhood. Utterly amazing, I would not have believed it unless I saw it for myself. Rob
Rob,
We could play the game called “but what about “where I could counter two instances of a different socioeconomic group failing to social distance for every instance you put forth. Believe me honey, I can do it, I could post pictures of the activities in my neighborhood.
But there’s no point in it. You have your preconceived notion and will provide content to support your favorite narratives..
I wasn’t gonna say anything even though there’s lots of crap going on in my neighborhood right now. Because we are cool —urban – close to everything—we have very large groups* of people gathering in Airbnb‘s around here. The shtshw I just read about 10 minutes ago (which prompted me to respond to you) was a block from me where 23 people stayed in one large house. The neighbors counted how many people were getting out of the party bus to go into the house. Last weekend I observed a different party going on with a bunch of people piling out of cars with their suitcases, standing around outside, smoking, loud music, helium balloons. NO SOCIAL DISTANCING. (Note my capital letters here because you like using those)
So here’s my bottom line – some people observe some social distancing activity some of the time. If you’d like to tie it to one socioeconomic group then I think you’re are quite limited in your view of the world.
*edited to add: these groups would, by any measure of keyboard warriors, be considered “of diverse makeup” as signaled by, ummm, skullcaps, pants-fallin’-down and etc. The latest incident included gunplay between them and next door neighbor. Real sweetheartS. Not what I would consider regular proponents of fine dining.
If you’d like to tie it to one socioeconomic group then I think you’re are quite limited in your view of the world.Duh!
ApatheticNoMore
5-20-20, 3:17pm
to the extent there is something to it, it's probably more like those who have done work for tips are said to be better tippers, those who have worked/do work in such a public facing position might be more considerate in wearing masks for those working there. But broader generalizations than that probably not.
frugal-one
5-20-20, 3:29pm
The Act specifically exempted public safety employees such as police and firefighters.
The unions did indeed make all the noise they could. They especially detested the provision that employers would no longer deduct union dues from paychecks, effectively making membership voluntary. The county government I worked for went from seven collective bargaining units to one (sheriff’s deputies). Somehow the world didn’t end.
Got the info from Wikipedia..... Glad Walker is gone. Am sick of all the drama. Now can't wait for trump to be gone. The drama is constant with him!
Rob,
We could play the game called “but what about “where I could counter two instances of a different socioeconomic group failing to social distance for every instance you put forth. Believe me honey, I can do it, I could post pictures of the activities in my neighborhood.
But there’s no point in it. You have your preconceived notion and will provide content to support your favorite narratives..
I wasn’t gonna say anything even though there’s lots of crap going on in my neighborhood right now. Because we are cool —urban – close to everything—we have very large groups* of people gathering in Airbnb‘s around here. The shtshw I just read about 10 minutes ago (which prompted me to respond to you) was a block from me where 23 people stayed in one large house. The neighbors counted how many people were getting out of the party bus to go into the house. Last weekend I observed a different party going on with a bunch of people piling out of cars with their suitcases, standing around outside, smoking, loud music, helium balloons. NO SOCIAL DISTANCING. (Note my capital letters here because you like using those)
So here’s my bottom line – some people observe some social distancing activity some of the time. If you’d like to tie it to one socioeconomic group then I think you’re are quite limited in your view of the world.
*edited to add: these groups would, by any measure of keyboard warriors, be considered “of diverse makeup” as signaled by, ummm, skullcaps, pants-fallin’-down and etc. The latest incident included gunplay between them and next door neighbor. Real sweetheartS. Not what I would consider regular proponents of fine dining.
A block of only 23 people? Check out this one:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/20/florida-block-party-drew-3000-people-social-distancing-coronavirus/5226723002/
Oregon breaks down COVID19 infection by ZIP code and at first glance, the highest concentration seems to be in poorer neighborhoods where people have to go out to work, and may live closer together. In my old hood, where friends live currently, there's a surprisingly low incidence. But Oregon has the lowest infection rate overall on the West Coast. I hope it stays that way.
iris lilies
5-20-20, 6:52pm
A block of only 23 people? Check out this one:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/20/florida-block-party-drew-3000-people-social-distancing-coronavirus/5226723002/
No, the party bus held 23 people who all went into the Air bnb house.
iris lilies
5-20-20, 6:54pm
Oregon breaks down COVID19 infection by ZIP code and at first glance, the highest concentration seems to be in poorer neighborhoods where people have to go out to work, and may live closer together. In my old hood, where friends live currently, there's a surprisingly low incidence. But Oregon has the lowest infection rate overall on the West Coast. I hope it stays that way.
Yes our region’s zip code map shows highest infection rateS In the poor neighborhoods.
Our state has many poor people in rural counties that are poor, so I don’t know how the infection rate is among that group, but because they don’t congregate in concentrated areas of population or in, for instance, public transportation (because there is none!) the infection rate probably is not as bad—yet. I have not checked tho, so I don’t really know
iris lilies
5-20-20, 8:39pm
Duh!
sigh, I know.
gimmethesimplelife
5-21-20, 1:38pm
Rob,
We could play the game called “but what about “where I could counter two instances of a different socioeconomic group failing to social distance for every instance you put forth. Believe me honey, I can do it, I could post pictures of the activities in my neighborhood.
But there’s no point in it. You have your preconceived notion and will provide content to support your favorite narratives..
I wasn’t gonna say anything even though there’s lots of crap going on in my neighborhood right now. Because we are cool —urban – close to everything—we have very large groups* of people gathering in Airbnb‘s around here. The shtshw I just read about 10 minutes ago (which prompted me to respond to you) was a block from me where 23 people stayed in one large house. The neighbors counted how many people were getting out of the party bus to go into the house. Last weekend I observed a different party going on with a bunch of people piling out of cars with their suitcases, standing around outside, smoking, loud music, helium balloons. NO SOCIAL DISTANCING. (Note my capital letters here because you like using those)
So here’s my bottom line – some people observe some social distancing activity some of the time. If you’d like to tie it to one socioeconomic group then I think you’re are quite limited in your view of the world.
*edited to add: these groups would, by any measure of keyboard warriors, be considered “of diverse makeup” as signaled by, ummm, skullcaps, pants-fallin’-down and etc. The latest incident included gunplay between them and next door neighbor. Real sweetheartS. Not what I would consider regular proponents of fine dining.Much like the police, I hold the well to do to a higher standard. That's why I find it so upsetting that these people on the Scottsdale Waterfront cared so little for other people as to not wear masks.....if these people immune to the truth if America they could at least express gratitude for this via wearing a mask. But I guess in America that's asking for too much. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-21-20, 1:43pm
Much like the police, I hold the well to do to a higher standard. That's why I find it so upsetting that these people on the Scottsdale Waterfront cared so little for other people as to not wear masks.....if these people immune to the truth if America they could at least express gratitude for this via wearing a mask. But I guess in America that's asking for too much. RobShould be if these people are immune to the truth of America above. Rob
Should be if these people are immune to the truth of America above. Rob
What truth is that?
iris lilies
5-21-20, 2:29pm
Much like the police, I hold the well to do to a higher standard. That's why I find it so upsetting that these people on the Scottsdale Waterfront cared so little for other people as to not wear masks.....if these people immune to the truth if America they could at least express gratitude for this via wearing a mask. But I guess in America that's asking for too much. Rob
You do love getting into a self righteous tizzy about nothing!
I hope you are taking your blood pressure medicine ha ha
gimmethesimplelife
5-21-20, 3:54pm
What truth is that?Money often mattering more than human life. Rob
dado potato
5-21-20, 6:25pm
In Wisconsin, the number of new cases (based on the count of positive tests) continues to increase. The 14-day moving average number of new cases per day in the state is now 333.57, the highest value ever. In my opinion, the availability of testing has improved, so we are getting a more accurate idea the spread of COVID-19 in this state.
16% if the positive test results is associated with a hospitalization. The death rate (all ages) as of 5/19/20 is 4%.
Thus, on any given day, about 333 people in WI are diagnosed with COVID-19, of which 53 are admitted to hospital.
The prognosis is better for younger patients.
Of those cases >90 years old, 31% die.
80-89 ... 19% die.
70-79 ... 15% die.
60-69 ... 5% die.
50-59 ... 2% die.
40-49 ... 1% die.
The numbers may be slightly different in other states or countries. But these are the facts for the state where I live. Being in the 70-79 age group, I intend to take all reasonable precautions...
I have trilliums in a shady part of my front yard. They grow where it is cold in winter. They are resilient!
"to life".
3220
rosarugosa
5-22-20, 6:19am
Dado: Your trilliums are gorgeous!
Money often mattering more than human life. Rob
In the case of your complaint, wouldn’t it be dining out often mattering more than human life?
gimmethesimplelife
5-23-20, 10:30am
In the case of your complaint, wouldn’t it be dining out often mattering more than human life?As I see it, that restaurant being open was a clear case of money mattering more than human life.....it's just too risky. As to the diners, they really should have known better.....there is no excuse for their lack of concern for their fellow human beings. Though I will flip the script and admit I'm just as annoyed at lower incone bus riders not wearing a mask - they have no excuse, either, but for different reasons. Rob
Teacher Terry
5-23-20, 12:57pm
Our governor must be caving to pressure. Casinos were supposed to open during phases 3 or 4. Now they are opening phase two June 4. We are going to call the governor’s office to complain. We don’t need a bunch of tourists coming.
rosarugosa
5-23-20, 4:29pm
NH and Maine get a lot of tourist revenue from MA. It will be interesting to see how they balance the dueling messages of "Massholes stay home with your Covid germs" and "Come spend you vacation dollars here!"
iris lilies
5-23-20, 5:30pm
The dog and I came to Hermann today and as I drove through our little touristy downtown is quite crowded and I don’t see people wearing masks. Now that doesn’t mean that they’re standing in enclosed spaces with no masks. It just means that’s what I observed in the outdoors as they mill around between winery to winery. DH who has been here a couple of days reports the wine trolleys have been going past our house regularly, so that means a pretty big crowd in town.
I did notice that at least the big new brewery/restaurant has not reopened yet. I hope they are not dead in the water. But given my incredibly narrow personal focus ( old buildings) I’m so happy they renovated that building from top to bottom, saving the building and preserving it for some time.
dado potato
5-23-20, 7:13pm
Now they are more open...3229
dado potato
5-23-20, 7:27pm
Massholes "Come spend you vacation dollars here!"
In tourist season in WI, I sometimes hear about "Illinoyances" driving north on US 51, US 53, or US 45 (or WI 13). The flipside of that condescension is genuine hospitality. Fresh air to share. (But please don't feed the bear.)
Georgia's reopening did not lead to any uptick in new cases, hospitalizations or deaths, not that this will stop those who want to prognosticate doom. I wonder if the fact that it is very hot and humid there this time of year is a factor. You can see as Brazil enters its cooler season cases are spiking.
My parents' church is reopening but they will not be attending. I am proud of them.
Can you imagine any form of contact tracing for anyone except for those who pretty much stay in their own area? Crazy. I am retired so my husband and I are still going to stay home and see how this plays out.
Can you imagine any form of contact tracing for anyone except for those who pretty much stay in their own area? Crazy. I am retired so my husband and I are still going to stay home and see how this plays out.
Some tracers only look at people you have been within 6 feet of for 15 uninterrupted minutes or more on the theory that you need exposure to a certain amount of viral load.
happystuff
5-24-20, 9:05am
It's sad that - for some people - the only way to prove their ideas, beliefs and theories about this virus right or wrong - is for them to get the virus.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I will take as many precautions as possible because I would hate for my actions (or in-actions) to be the cause of or add to the causes of someone else getting sick and/or dying.
It seems a little early to call Brazil or certain US states successes. Brazil’s death toll keeps steadily going up. Montgomery Alabama’s hospitals are at max capacity. Time will tell, but I’d personally rather not have society play Russian roulette with this virus.
And speaking of Russia, the start of this video shows the current situations in St Petersburg. https://youtu.be/XJMlcKbFOEI
My point was that as Brazil moves into their cooler season cases are rising not that Brazil is a success.
dado potato
5-24-20, 10:38am
Georgia's reopening did not lead to any uptick in new cases, hospitalizations or deaths,
There have been some questions raised about the accuracy and consistency of data reported by the Georgia public health department.
The presence or absence of cases based on antibody testing may have exaggerated the 7-day moving average of new cases, which reportedly peaked at 771 on April 22. Georgia is moving toward counting cases based on viral tests that are positive, disregarding positive antibody tests.
Reportedly some of the cases previously counted in error have been corrected, but department staff are busy keeping up with daily reporting, and they have not gotten around to correcting all the errors.
Source: http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2020/may/22/kind-quirrelly-georgia-counts-covid-19-tests/523645
True, the website of the department of public health shows that since May 1, the number of new cases per day (and particularly the 7-day moving average) are declining.
In the Georgia counties with the highest population density, the number of deaths per 100,000 are:
12.9 DeKalb
18 Cobb
12.6 Gwinnett
17.8 Fulton
In certain rural counties, notably those with outbreaks in prisons and nursing homes, the deaths per 100,000 are much higher.
My point was that as Brazil moves into their cooler season cases are rising not that Brazil is a success.
I guess a high of 72 counts as "cool season" to the people of Rio.
Sweden's proved the wisdom of sheltering in place. Its infection rate is by far the highest of the Nordic countries.
If this had the symptoms, infection rate, or mortality of the flu, playing around with herd immunity might be worthwhile, but all indications are that it's much more virulent than the flu. Russian roulette is a good metaphor.
I guess a high of 72 counts as "cool season" to the people of Rio.
I have read that the US cannot expect cases to slow until July and August because June temperatures, averaging in the 70's in many of the densely populated parts of the country, are not hot enough to slow the spread. We are also expected to have a second wave in the fall when temperatures fall again. Let's see what season the second wave hits and then we will see if the public health experts are right on this.
Sweden's proved the wisdom of sheltering in place. Its infection rate is by far the highest of the Nordic countries.
If this had the symptoms, infection rate, or mortality of the flu, playing around with herd immunity might be worthwhile, but all indications are that it's much more virulent than the flu. Russian roulette is a good metaphor.
Symptoms - agree covid is more serious for those who have symptoms
Infection rate - agree this is more contagious
Mortality - disagree. It only looks high because we are not testing widely and missing many asymptomatic people
What Sweden is doing is getting it over more quickly with a sharper curve rather than spreading it out over a flatter curve.
I think we just don't know.
What the US did here in my community and many other places was dismantle healthcare in preparation for dealing with Covid, thus endangering people with many other conditions.
Symptoms - agree covid is more serious for those who have symptoms
Infection rate - agree this is more contagious
Mortality - disagree. It only looks high because we are not testing widely and missing many asymptomatic people
What Sweden is doing is getting it over more quickly with a sharper curve rather than spreading it out over a flatter curve.
It may be a long time until we know the true mortality rate--given the deliberate lack of testing--but if comparisons to the yearly flu are any indication, it doesn't look good.
dado potato
5-25-20, 2:38pm
Memorial Day Weekend
People congregated at their favorite spots.
News media noticed the absence of social distancing and masks among the crowds at
Lake of the Ozarks MO
Ocean City MD
Daytona Beach FL
Carolina Beach NC
Myrtle Beach SC
Venice Beach CA
Galveston Island TX.
It got tense when 5 people were shot at Daytona Beach FL.
John Olivarri Mayor of Osage Beach MO expressed his sense of futility, I don't know how you would shut down Lake of the Ozarks. There's no way to control that. Source: http://nypost.com/2020/05/25/no-way-to-control-crowding-at-parties-in-lake-of-ozarks-mayor
Although I do not like my state's mask law I am obeying it, but many other people are not outdoors. I went on a walk yesterday and only one jogger lifted a mask over her face when she approached me. If I saw people I went off the path or if I could not because there was a fence in the way put my mask on. I felt very stupid. What am I going to all this hassle for when most people don't care? Who knows, maybe the jogger only did it because it is the law too.
happystuff
5-25-20, 2:55pm
What am I going to all this hassle for when most people don't care? Who knows, maybe the jogger only did it because it is the law too.
Do YOU care?
I wear a mask because *I* care. I care about myself and I care about others. Other people will choose to do what they will do. I choose a mask because I care - it's really that simple a choice for me.
I feel like the nerdy teacher's pet, the goody goody.
Teacher Terry
5-25-20, 4:44pm
Same for me Happy. I want everyone to survive.
Same for me Happy. I want everyone to survive.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I think everyone here wants everyone to survive. Everyone here cares or they would not be trying to figure out how to best manage the situation, protect each other, and not endanger our own health. I liked what Tammy said somewhere, that two things can be true at the same time. I am attributing good motives to everyone here and hope that we can speak peaceably and respectfully to each other. This board has been a font of wisdom and support over the years; I hope we can keep it that way. Wishing you all good health and peace.
frugal-one
5-25-20, 5:23pm
Went for a hike today and people would not move over on the trail. Mentioned social distancing and they laughed. It is getting discerning.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I think everyone here wants everyone to survive. Everyone here cares or they would not be trying to figure out how to best manage the situation, protect each other, and not endanger our own health. I liked what Tammy said somewhere, that two things can be true at the same time. I am attributing good motives to everyone here and hope that we can speak peaceably and respectfully to each other. This board has been a font of wisdom and support over the years; I hope we can keep it that way. Wishing you all good health and peace.
Amen, Tybee
ApatheticNoMore
5-25-20, 5:52pm
Went for a hike today and people would not move over on the trail. Mentioned social distancing and they laughed. It is getting discerning.
yes I don't hike trails, I don't think full social distancing can be maintained on trails here, judging by the parking situation, they are super crowded (because there is nothing else to do - it's ok as many of those other things to do, such as things indoors, would likely be more risky than hiking which is maybe one reason hiking is open and those aren't).
I saw Dr. Birx on TV today saying although houses of worship are now open if you are in a high risk group you should not attend services. I think this is a good approach. Let people keep their constitutional rights, but urge them to use common sense. You could even post signs by the door for congregants "Enter at your own risk".
Walk on a trail at your own risk, get a haircut at your own risk, etc. No one is forcing you to do these things.
iris lilies
5-25-20, 6:51pm
I feel like the nerdy teacher's pet, the goody goody.
Jep, you may feel like that in you real life sitch, but here on this forum you are kind of a brat. I guess your school psychologist might say your “ goody two shoes” persona is uncomfortable for you so you act out during recess ( forum time.)
How’dya like THAT analysis? :~)
Pretty good IL. I also periodically run for the (state) border for brief excursions so I can live free or die.
happystuff
5-25-20, 7:16pm
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I think everyone here wants everyone to survive. Everyone here cares or they would not be trying to figure out how to best manage the situation, protect each other, and not endanger our own health. I liked what Tammy said somewhere, that two things can be true at the same time. I am attributing good motives to everyone here and hope that we can speak peaceably and respectfully to each other. This board has been a font of wisdom and support over the years; I hope we can keep it that way. Wishing you all good health and peace.
+1
frugal-one
5-25-20, 7:27pm
[QUOTE=Yppej;353602]I saw Dr. Birx on TV today saying although houses of worship are now open if you are in a high risk group you should not attend services. I think this is a good approach. Let people keep their constitutional rights, but urge them to use common sense. You could even post signs by the door for congregants "Enter at your own risk".
Walk on a trail at your own risk, get a haircut at your own risk, etc. No one is forcing you to do these things.[/Q
There is adequate room on the bike trails I traverse if the idiots stay in their lane.... easily an 8 foot girth.
I've been out hiking a number of times now. I pick where to go based on my pre-covid knowledge of which parks/trails are more popular, which ones are super narrow, etc.
I'm not super concerned because I understand that getting infected is very much a result of the equation: exposure level * time exposed. If I'm outside, a breeze is blowing, the other person is several feet away from me, hopefully wearing a mask, and I'm literally in their air space for one or two seconds, the risk is acceptable to me.
iris lilies
5-25-20, 10:41pm
This is huge:
I just got off the phone with my friend, a fairly close friend. She paid $99 for an antibody test and the results came in today: yeah she tested positive for COVID-19.
She had a test because she was sick last February with an unusual dry cough chills and a fever of 2 to 3°. I remember that she came to visit us practically the day she got out of bed and she sat in our living room couch, talking about the pneumonia test she just had because she wanted to know what was going on with her lungs.
So yeah, we had a Covid19 patient sitting on our couch, in our living room, for quite a while on an afternoon in February.
She is 65 years old, diabetic, with a severely depressed immune system due to many recent issues, and she’s obese.
I told her this was extremely cheerful news because I’ve been worried about her specifically, in fact I’d even been a little irritated with her in mid March because she was planning on a trip that I thought was unnecessary. Just goes to show what do I know.
She is sure she got this COVID-19 virus at the hairdresser. Her Hairdresser has among her clients a large number of women who travel internationally for business. The hairdresser herself was sick around that time but nothing serious, mostly a cough.
Beware the false positive rates on many of the antibody tests currently in use.
Beware the false positive rates on many of the antibody tests currently in use.
Not to mention that it is unknown if antibody load will prevent re-infection. Assume nothing people.
iris lilies
5-25-20, 10:56pm
Beware the false positive rates on many of the antibody tests currently in use.
So what *is* the rate of false positives?
I’m sure my friend will research that. She’s currently excited about current Research using RNA controls with coronaviruses. She is a layman but has much interest in health matters, especially those of animal husbandry. Let’s just say I hear about Cornell as often from her as we hear about Princeton from you.:~)
iris lilies
5-25-20, 11:00pm
Not to mention that it is unknown if antibody load will prevent re-infection. Assume nothing people.
The coronaviruses mutate all the time, don’t they? Permanent immunity doesn’t seem realistic, at least I don’t think it is for SARS and we certainly don’t have a vaccine for SARS and how long has that thing been around?
My friend is probably good for the year, at least for this COVID19 season.Maybe not in the fall.
Not to mention that it is unknown if antibody load will prevent re-infection. Assume nothing people.
The latest evidence is that while some people do contract the virus a second time they do not get sick and they do not transmit it to others. I am still trying to get a free antibody test from a research hospital and have gotten as far as filling out their survey. I don't know if or when I will hear from them next but I trust their test will be legit.
Here is more info than probably needed about antibody tests and issues with them. I hope Scientific American is "good" enough. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-covid-19-antibody-tests-can-and-cannot-tell-us/
Sweetana the article is dated May 5th and new information has come out since then, especially on tests on monkeys.
iris lilies
5-26-20, 8:26am
Here is more info than probably needed about antibody tests and issues with them. I hope Scientific American is "good" enough. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-covid-19-antibody-tests-can-and-cannot-tell-us/
I read that, or skimmed it should
I say, before you posted.
If this had the symptoms, infection rate, or mortality of the flu, playing around with herd immunity might be worthwhile, but all indications are that it's much more virulent than the flu. Russian roulette is a good metaphor.
I saw on the news today that 80% of people with covid are asymptomatic. That doesn't strike me as especially virulent. By comparison, 27.1% of Ebola patients are asymptomatic. Or compare this with HIV which if untreated has a mortality rate of over 90%.
I saw on the news today that 80% of people with covid are asymptomatic. That doesn't strike me as especially virulent. By comparison, 27.1% of Ebola patients are asymptomatic. Or compare this with HIV which if untreated has a mortality rate of over 90%.
100,000 dead in 3-4 months in this country is virulent enough for me. And both Ebola and HIV/AIDS are much harder to contract than airborne COVID. At any rate, there is much we don't know--like what is the trigger for some people's circulatory systems to turn to blackberry jam while others shake the virus off without much trouble.
Teacher Terry
5-28-20, 12:54pm
Also of concern is the serious syndrome that kids are getting from the virus.
ApatheticNoMore
5-28-20, 1:13pm
In latin America the latest seems a be a lot of 20-40 year olds are dying.
Yea too much is unknown, it's not actually known, pushing a study here or there out of all context to prove this or that (or if you are a website for the clicks because I saw that clickbait article too, and it is what info it is. But in my opinion doesn't jibe with much else that we also seem to have data on, like antibody tests not showing much infection compared to death numbers in many countries.), is again just the fundamentally intellectually dishonest arguments all the time.
More unintended consequences - there is an uptick in murders on Boston. People feel with the courts closed nothing will happen to them, and some prisoners are being released early to try to avoid outbreaks in correctional facilities. I wonder too if people don't have other things to do so they get into fights.
Washington just announced that 50% of new cases are in people under 40.
Teacher Terry
5-28-20, 6:30pm
Jane, I guess that will dispel it’s a old person’s disease myth.
Jane, I guess that will dispel it’s a old person’s disease myth.
The really old are just more likely to die. I'm still mystified by the dichotomy of outcomes of infection.
dado potato
5-30-20, 1:09am
Waupon Correctional Facility has been testing their 1,181 inmates and 319 staff. The results summarized for about half the tests have been reported in the news. 217 positive, (close to 30% positive)... mostly asymptomatic.
I have a hunch that other correctional facilities must be testing, but I don't recall seeing results, except for Waupon.
I keep hearing more stories of the negative effects of shutdowns from increases in child abuse to greater self-reported substance abuse among college students. I continue to think isolating high risk groups makes more sense than making everyone stay home. It's not just an economic gut punch.
I have been thinking that it is unnatural for people to stay in a state of hypervigilance, am I touching my face? Is that person 5 not 6 feet from me? Is my cough a dry cough or a wet cough? People need the opportunity to relax and enjoy life. The flight part of fight or flight - flight from others, social situations, or even one's own face - is a stress response and is not sustainable.
The thing I am confused about is we read that cases are increasing here or there. Does that mean people are actually getting sick or does it mean they just did more tests on asymptomatic people? I went to a local nursery yesterday with mostly older customers milling about. No one was wearing a mask. I felt silly wearing one...
Generally!! it means that people are getting some kind of symptoms that prompts them to get tested or they go into hospital where it is required.
The thing I am confused about is we read that cases are increasing here or there. Does that mean people are actually getting sick or does it mean they just did more tests on asymptomatic people? I went to a local nursery yesterday with mostly older customers milling about. No one was wearing a mask. I felt silly wearing one...
IL has now opened up testing free to anyone in the state, with or without symptoms, no doctor’s order required. We’re still seeing a lot of cases, but it’s because so many people are getting tested. State test positivity rate is about 5% as of yesterday.
Teacher Terry
6-7-20, 5:13pm
Most people here are wearing masks in stores and many require it. Our infection rate is so low we are comfortable going out to eat since waiters are all masked and we see them washing tables and chairs between guests. We prefer to eat outside but that’s always been true. Asians are used to it because of the air quality. Somehow they have adjusted to wearing masks with no issues in countries that are very hot and humid.
Chicken lady
6-8-20, 9:41am
Yppej, I agree that the behaviors we are being asked to apply to avoid the spread of illness are unnatural. What us natural is for a new pathogen to emerge, kill off the portion of the population that is insufficiently resistant and persist in the portion that has enough resistance to survive long enough to spread it while maintaining an adequate population to provide hosts.
that is why we invented medicine. From an individual viewpoint, nature sucks.
I was watching TV news at four a.m. (don't ask...:~)) featuring a physician named Leana Wen (currently a visiting professor at George Washington University) , who asserted that if everyone wore masks, the incidence of COVID transmission could be cut by 50 to 90 percent. I've noted lots of similar reports lately.
iris lilies
6-8-20, 10:52am
I caved yesterday to social un- isolation and had a breakfast party on my patio for five friends. We made an effort to stay 6 feet apart, but we did not mask. They serve themselvesfood in my house and then sat outside it was a beautiful morning.Later in the day I paid $250 to visit the latest Frank Loyd Wright houseUp for renovation. It was a fundraiser. Everyone was required to wear masks sitting inside so we did, and there was a fair amount of social distancing involved, but it was a group of about a dozen people and yeah we ended up passing close by in those narrow Wright hallways that were less than 3 feet wide.
Our county where Herman is located has had four total diagnosed cases of COVID-19. Four. Zero deaths. They Have a good testing facilities although apparently few people are taking advantage of them and they’ve already moved the testing from the clinic location to the local hospital.
I’m planning Overnight trip today to Galena, Illinois where the county has 33 reported cases of COVID-19. That is higher than my Hermann County ( Gasconade.) But still not bad.
Teacher Terry
6-8-20, 11:03am
Galena is a great little town. I love frank Wright Lloyd homes.
We seem to have about 250 new diagnosed cases a day, here. Mostly in the county where I live.
Well that's because Galena is second home territory for chicago, Iris. Great town, by the way!
Well that's because Galena is second home territory for chicago, Iris. Great town, by the way!
Actually, I think NW Indiana and SW Michigan are more secondary territory for Chicago area folks.
I was diving off a charter boat yesterday that goes out of the Hammond, IN marina. Just across the border from Chicago. The marina was jammed. Not an empty slip in sight. Chicago's marinas are still closed and you can't even launch a boat for day use out of a Chicago boat ramp. So people from Chicago/IL are coming to Indiana. The boat captain said the Hammond marina has a massive waiting list. I saw more IL license plates in the parking lot than I did IN. Usually it's more IN plates.
DW and I had an excellent time visiting Galena. I'd go again if there weren't so many other towns we've yet to visit.
Ithe incidence of COVID transmission could be cut by 50 to 90 percent. I've noted lots of similar reports lately.
Or if sick people stayed home that would do it perthis WHO news:
https://thehill.com/homenews/coronavirus-report/501696-who-official-asymptomatic-spread-of-coronavirus-very-rare
I would agree to a mask mandate in doctor's offices, hospitals, and other places where people are sick.
ApatheticNoMore
6-8-20, 6:15pm
We are likely to have a vaccine before we have decent sick leave policy in this country, yes even if vaccine takes 2 years or more, ha even if it takes 10 with the existing cast of useless people from both parties in office (I can't believe how badly they failed to get this).
So wear a mask already. We don't have universal sick leave, so even if we were certain there was no asymptomatic transmission, we need universal mask wearing.
Hopefully people won't throw their masks away just yet. From the article:
However, Ashish Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, expressed some skepticism of the WHO’s claim and said he thinks asymptomatic transmission is, in fact, an important source of spread and that some modeling shows as much as 40 to 60 percent of transmission is from people without symptoms.
Jha said it’s possible the WHO is making a distinction between asymptomatic spread and presymptomatic spread, when someone eventually develops symptoms but spreads the virus before they do.
There's so much no one knows about this virus--like whether or not it lingers and causes more troublesome sequelae down the line. Possible outcomes apparently include neurological impairment as well as renal failure, clotting problems and Kawasaki-like syndrome.
The dictator of my state wants to spend $374 million to increase testing capacity, but demand for testing has been falling and we have more capacity than we need. People don't want the tests, and they can't get the antibody tests they do want covered by insurance. The law only mandates free - aka no out of pocket cost - conventional tests. He is so out of touch and is wasting taxpayer money.
So you’re In favor of the government testing for antibodies? Or you’re in favor of people jamming their heads in a hole in the ground? Arizona is having an exploding level of cases. You previously said that brazil had increases because of the cold weather. I guess AZ is entering cold weather season. Either that or you are a stupid idiot.
My point was that as Brazil moves into their cooler season cases are rising not that Brazil is a success.
Apparently Arizona must be heading into cooler season too since their cases are rising pretty dramatically. I suppose it could also be a case of "this disease doesn't give a **** what the weather is. It only cares who doesn't bother to wear a damn mask."
ApatheticNoMore
6-11-20, 1:50am
So you’re In favor of the government testing for antibodies? Or you’re in favor of people jamming their heads in a hole in the ground? Arizona is having an exploding level of cases. You previously said that brazil had increases because of the cold weather. I guess AZ is entering cold weather season.
Truthfully a lot of places might be headed for ICU overload, but very little is hitting the national news I suspect. AZ yes, but here in So Cal we may be 2-4 weeks away from ICUs maybe becoming overloaded as well, or so the health authorities say. Maybe if happens, maybe not, I mean noone has a crystal ball. But they are telling us it might happen. Yes a lot is open, no I'm not putting myself out there to go the mall (to buy things I don't need, to impress people I don't like), or eat at a restaurant etc., cases are increasing.
The hot weather thing, no, I mean maybe there is some effect of UV etc. but outdoors doesn't seem a huge source of transmission anyway. Maybe it slows transmission some, but clearly it was unlikely to ever be a major much less sufficient factor as places with plenty of hot weather were getting hit hard all along.
So you’re In favor of the government testing for antibodies? Or you’re in favor of people jamming their heads in a hole in the ground? Arizona is having an exploding level of cases. You previously said that brazil had increases because of the cold weather. I guess AZ is entering cold weather season. Either that or you are a stupid idiot.
I am in favor of the mandate that insurers cover testing be expanded to include antibody testing. Many people I know would like this test. The latest research indicates antibodies are protective against the disease. You can then 1) locate more plasma donors and 2) know who to focus conventional testing efforts on, rather than repeatedly testing people not at risk.
Previously you apologized for your tone but I see that was insincere as you are now calling me a stupid idiot. The moderators here are not doing there job of enforcing forum etiquette so I am adding you to my ignore list and this is the last post of yours I will respond to.
My parents, 79 and 81, are now scheduled for haircuts. Their hairdresser is even older than them. But hey they'll be wearing masks....
Meanwhile I am planning a contactless Father's Day with my dad in an outdoor arboretum. I hope it is not the last one I celebrate with him. We will go in separate cars and stay 6+ feet apart although communication is difficult at that distance since he is hard of hearing despite double hearing aids.
iris lilies
6-11-20, 7:22am
So you’re In favor of the government testing for antibodies? Or you’re in favor of people jamming their heads in a hole in the ground? Arizona is having an exploding level of cases. You previously said that brazil had increases because of the cold weather. I guess AZ is entering cold weather season. Either that or you are a stupid idiot.
jp, really. “ stupid idiot.”
tsk tsk tsk.
happystuff
6-11-20, 7:43am
Regardless of any rules imposed anywhere by anyone, for me, it comes down to a simple choice - since I care about myself AND others, I wear a mask; if I didn't care about myself or others, I wouldn't wear a mask.
For me, it's NOT a difficult choice to make - I wear a mask.
ApatheticNoMore
6-11-20, 10:04am
Noone should cover antibody tests at all until they can get ones that are largely reliable, there have been so many problems with antibody tests, that while reliable antibody tests are possible, it's not like it's a problem that's science and regulation CAN'T solve, if they don't first work out the reliability issue they are next to garbage and should not be covered by anyone. Why should insurers or the government waste their money on bad tests? Anymore than condoms with holes should be covered, or bleach should be free so people can drink it. Then there is the issue that noone really knows what follows from antibodies.
Then when the antibody tests are reliable they will probably find out most places 2% or 3% of the population actually has antibodies (since that's what the research seems to show). More in NYC. And one might one wonder why catering to this 2% should be a funding priority (tests should be reliable and available, but best use of public money, I don't know about that. Live coronavirus tests are available specifically with a public health goal: to limit spread).
This is an outstanding article on masks and computer models: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/masks-covid-19-infections-would-plummet-new-study-says?fbclid=IwAR38nwlWsNHlKXdBfRvW_z6I6ETIkM72z4OB BeLvJGno7jvK9HyLAV4ZjtE
"On the screen-share, De Kai first ran a simulation that shows what happens when COVID-19 strikes a population in which no one wears a mask. The orange and red dots proliferate at a frightening speed; “susceptibles” becoming “exposed/infected,” then recovered or dead. “This is what you don’t want,” said De Kai. He changed the setting to simulate what would happen if 100% of the make-believe population wore masks; almost all of the dots would stay blue—with each of them surrounded by a white square, representing someone wearing a mask."
Teacher Terry
6-11-20, 1:50pm
It’s a easy choice to wear a mask. As a society we each have a responsibility to protect others because everyone benefits.
This is an outstanding article on masks and computer models: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/masks-covid-19-infections-would-plummet-new-study-says?fbclid=IwAR38nwlWsNHlKXdBfRvW_z6I6ETIkM72z4OB BeLvJGno7jvK9HyLAV4ZjtE
"On the screen-share, De Kai first ran a simulation that shows what happens when COVID-19 strikes a population in which no one wears a mask. The orange and red dots proliferate at a frightening speed; “susceptibles” becoming “exposed/infected,” then recovered or dead. “This is what you don’t want,” said De Kai. He changed the setting to simulate what would happen if 100% of the make-believe population wore masks; almost all of the dots would stay blue—with each of them surrounded by a white square, representing someone wearing a mask."
So why aren't we opening everything, full steam ahead, just put on a mask and hop on a fully loaded airplane, no capacity limits at Disney, fill the sports stadiums and concert halls. Yippee!
Just curious if anyone here personally knows someone who has had or has the virus? The closest I have come is a neighbor who had to quarantine after her boss came down with some mild symptoms and tested positive. I remain very confused by all the varying reports but find it interesting that the day after George Floyd is buried, the headlines go right back to reporting scary virus surges.
Teacher Terry
6-11-20, 4:00pm
Luckily I don’t know anyone.
ApatheticNoMore
6-11-20, 4:03pm
No the closest I come is a college classmate of my bf died, in his early 40s.
frugal-one
6-11-20, 4:04pm
My son in Minneapolis says he personally knows 5 people, one of which is still on a ventilator. He left his home because of the protests and has now returned ... he always wears a mask BTW. As they say, err on the side of caution.
Just curious if anyone here personally knows someone who has had or has the virus?
Yes.
happystuff
6-11-20, 4:24pm
Just curious if anyone here personally knows someone who has had or has the virus? The closest I have come is a neighbor who had to quarantine after her boss came down with some mild symptoms and tested positive. I remain very confused by all the varying reports but find it interesting that the day after George Floyd is buried, the headlines go right back to reporting scary virus surges.
My bil's father died from it. Not sure of the status of his mother yet.
My mil's best friend and her son caught it, both ended up in hospital on ventilators. Son recovered, his mother died.
The former pastor's sil died from it.
So why aren't we opening everything, full steam ahead, just put on a mask and hop on a fully loaded airplane, no capacity limits at Disney, fill the sports stadiums and concert halls. Yippee!
Masks are among the tools we can use--along with testing/reporting, self-quarantining, border shutdowns, social distancing, etc.--to combat this thing. Taiwan is among the countries that got it right, and issuing millions of masks early was part of that. Last figure I saw for them was single-digit deaths.
happystuff
6-11-20, 4:26pm
Deleted.
Reminder to self: Be nice whenever possible. It's always possible. - Dalai Lama
rosarugosa
6-11-20, 6:39pm
My MIL tested as positive in the nursing home, but she is doing OK.
I know 4 people personally who had it. Three were sick sick sick for weeks but did t need hospitalization and all are recovered. The fourth only lost her sense of taste and smell for a couple of weeks and is now feeling fine.
And apparently wearing masks to preventing spreading the virus if one has covid may actually be quite effective.
https://www.today.com/health/missouri-great-clips-hairstylists-coronavirus-did-not-infect-140-clients-t183982?cid=sm_npd_td_fb_ma
I am in favor of the mandate that insurers cover testing be expanded to include antibody testing. Many people I know would like this test. The latest research indicates antibodies are protective against the disease. You can then 1) locate more plasma donors and 2) know who to focus conventional testing efforts on, rather than repeatedly testing people not at risk.
Previously you apologized for your tone but I see that was insincere as you are now calling me a stupid idiot. The moderators here are not doing there job of enforcing forum etiquette so I am adding you to my ignore list and this is the last post of yours I will respond to.
Not that you’ll see it but I apologize again. This is quite an emotional time For everyone but that’s not an excuse for me being a jerk.
Teacher Terry
6-11-20, 7:32pm
Between the virus, economy and what’s happening with the police and the BLM movement people are super stressed.
Between the virus, economy and what’s happening with the police and the BLM movement people are super stressed.Tell me about it, after 70 or so years of wabbit hunting they're taking away Elmer Fudd's rifle and cancelling the TV shows Paw Patrol, Live PD and Cops for the crime of showing police officers in a good light. The combination of white guilt and intense virtue signaling creates odd responses in just about everyone.
iris lilies
6-11-20, 8:09pm
Tell me about it, after 70 or so years of wabbit hunting they're taking away Elmer Fudd's rifle and cancelling the TV shows Paw Patrol, Live PD and Cops for the crime of showing police officers in a good light. The combination of white guilt and intense virtue signaling creates odd responses in just about everyone.
next, they will be re-making The Shield only with the Vic Mackey character with 0 redeeming qualities. It won’t be enough that he’s a dirty cop. In the new version he won’t be able to catch pedophiles, pimps who beat up their women, etc.
Chicken lady
6-11-20, 8:12pm
Just curious if anyone here personally knows someone who has had or has the virus?
yes. Only one dead so far.
ApatheticNoMore
6-11-20, 8:33pm
Between the virus, economy and what’s happening with the police and the BLM movement people are super stressed.
between virus and economy alone I don't have the capacity to care about much else is the truth, I mean I have realized I really have nothing left, just trying to survive, really just trying to survive (riots in my bfs neighborhood and curfews that hit as soon as work ended and it was beyond ridiculous, it was like woah I thought things were bad before ...)
Simplemind
6-11-20, 9:53pm
Between the virus, economy and what’s happening with the police and the BLM movement people are super stressed.
3262
Teacher Terry
6-11-20, 10:33pm
SM, too funny!!
We also skipped the bit about the government confirming UFO’s...
ApatheticNoMore
6-12-20, 12:48am
I vaguely heard of the murder hornets but that is all, I spent no time worrying about them, like I said I have no extra psychic capacity to. Just as well.
Teacher Terry
6-12-20, 1:06am
ANM, your posts are sad as it seems like you are barely getting by.
This is an outstanding article on masks and computer models: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/masks-covid-19-infections-would-plummet-new-study-says?fbclid=IwAR38nwlWsNHlKXdBfRvW_z6I6ETIkM72z4OB BeLvJGno7jvK9HyLAV4ZjtE
"On the screen-share, De Kai first ran a simulation that shows what happens when COVID-19 strikes a population in which no one wears a mask. The orange and red dots proliferate at a frightening speed; “susceptibles” becoming “exposed/infected,” then recovered or dead. “This is what you don’t want,” said De Kai. He changed the setting to simulate what would happen if 100% of the make-believe population wore masks; almost all of the dots would stay blue—with each of them surrounded by a white square, representing someone wearing a mask."
I had time to sit down and read the entire article this morning. The point does seem to be the one I made, that it is a panacea to allow people to crowd together. The author's example was the subway system in Japan.
This was a computer simulation. It was not a test with actual covid particles, because those are too small to be seen on camera - or to be stopped by a non-surgical mask. Some of the author's conjectures are based on other illnesses with larger particles. I am very fearful this mask mania will extend to 9 months out of the year forever to stop the flu even after covid is long gone. After all as our population ages flu seasons will be more deadly even if the flu virus is not.
Our rights are being eroded for what, for covid, is a panacea. The reason Japan has fewer cases could be something entirely unrelated, such as that they wear gloves on the subway or, given that they have an even older population than the US, they take care of their elderly at home instead of putting them in nursing homes . Now there's something that really would stop most of the covid outbreaks, but good luck with that.
Just curious if anyone here personally knows someone who has had or has the virus? The closest I have come is a neighbor who had to quarantine after her boss came down with some mild symptoms and tested positive. I remain very confused by all the varying reports but find it interesting that the day after George Floyd is buried, the headlines go right back to reporting scary virus surges.
I know two people whose elderly parents, nursing home residents with underlying conditions, died of it. I also know one person whose father did not die of it, but because he was in a nursing home the state forced the medical examiner to change the cause of death to covid. The statistics are inflated.
All these people accepted their parents' deaths after a long life as somewhat natural, because they were so infirm they were likely to die of some opportunistic infection. There are other people though (stereotypical boomers?) who feel entitled to live forever no matter their state of health and the lifestyle that may have contributed to it.
I know 2 people in their 60's who recovered. They were on oxygen but not ventilators.
Someone’s channeling their inner Dan Patrick again.
I vaguely heard of the murder hornets but that is all, I spent no time worrying about them, like I said I have no extra psychic capacity to. Just as well.
Easy for you to be cavalier--the murder hornets made their debut up here in Washington, similar to COVID19. I'm rethinking some life choices...:0!
ApatheticNoMore
6-12-20, 12:28pm
Every day I check the local deaths, there is breakdown by age, and preexisting conditions by age, every day someone in the 41-65 group without preexisting conditions dies of it. I mean maybe they have type A blood and that is why, I'm glad I don't. A local manager at a supermarket makes the news of dying from it, I mean of course, position that interacts with a lot of people, it's bound to happen. I know doubt probably saw that manager at one point (not during the pandemic but before all that).
Teacher Terry
6-12-20, 12:38pm
Y, people don’t take care of their parents at homes because they have jobs and kids. Are you going to take care of your parents? Stereotypical boomers -ugh!!! Sorry I unblocked you.
iris lilies
6-12-20, 2:38pm
I think the idea of taking care of elderly at home is a valid point. I’m not saying it should be done, I’m not saying people are slacking for not doing it, I’m saying none of those things.
I’m just saying that Japan may not have the ghettos of elderly that we have here and that societal difference might have a measurable impact on the Covid19 death rate.
https://www.scripps.edu/news-and-events/press-room/2020/20200611-choe-farzan-sars-cov-2-spike-protein.html
Good luck out there.
Teacher Terry
6-12-20, 4:40pm
It’s usually the women baring the brunt of caring for elderly parents even if it’s not their parents.
frugal-one
6-12-20, 5:14pm
https://www.scripps.edu/news-and-events/press-room/2020/20200611-choe-farzan-sars-cov-2-spike-protein.html
Good luck out there.
Too technical for me.
frugal-one
6-12-20, 5:18pm
I think the idea of taking care of elderly at home is a valid point. I’m not saying it should be done, I’m not saying people are slacking for not doing it, I’m saying none of those things.
I’m just saying that Japan may not have the ghettos of elderly that we have here and that societal difference might have a measurable impact on the Covid19 death rate.
It is really difficult to be on call 24/7 for an elderly person that cannot do daily cares. I did this for a few weeks for my MIL and told my husband to find a place for her. I am not giving up my life for her. That is what needs to be done. You can never get away from it. Thankfully, we have a 2 story house and she could not do stairs and I am a small person and was difficult for me to help her bath or shower. She was too heavy for me.
Teacher Terry
6-12-20, 5:29pm
I don’t ever expect to live with my kids. It ruins lives. Either you tough it out yourself, hire help or go to a facility. My MIL couldn’t be alone all the time after having a major surgery so she lived with us for 2 weeks. We still went to work and she took care of herself. After 2 weeks her strength was back and she went home. Then 2 years later it happened again but she needed help with everything and couldn’t be alone. I told my husband to either take leave from work and do it or she would have to go to a rehab facility. Unfortunately they managed to kill her at 67.
I think in some other time families had to care for elders as there were very few other options. Also, elders weren't held in what seems like perpetuity with drugs as they are now. When it was time to go, they died. My grandmother lived with us a short while until she broke her hip and went to the "home." My MIL is...pardon the expression...rotting in a Brookdale home. She has been on lockdown now for two months so is stuck in a bleak room with drugs delivered twice a day. Her daughter had been caring for her but could no longer take the stress of caring for her along with a full time job. If it was quick and not painful, it would be a blessing for her to die of the virus.
rosarugosa
6-12-20, 6:18pm
Here's yet another article on the value of mask wearing:
https://www.wcvb.com/article/study-says-100-percent-face-mask-use-could-crush-second-third-covid-19-wave/32843976
https://www.wcvb.com/article/study-says-100-percent-face-mask-use-could-crush-second-third-covid-19-wave/32843976
The modeling is based on 100% face mask usage. That is not going to happen in a free society. I see lower and lower compliance at work among both employees and customers. I think it is a combination of hot weather and mask fatigue. Even those who mandate masks allow for medical exceptions, so you will never get to 100%, and any model that depends on 100% to prove its point just disproved it.
I've read similar articles noting decreased incidence with 80% of us wearing masks, but I've completely lost faith in the citizens of this country and their ability to do the right thing, so let the infections begin, I guess.
I decided to recheck statistics today on Sweden, a country that, other than banning large gatherings, let people decide for themselves if and how they wanted to respond to the virus. It has the 7th most deaths per 100,000 population after San Marino, Belgium, Andorra, the UK, Spain and Italy. Their strategy has been to get this over with in one wave, rather than multiple waves. Their deaths and ICU hospitalizations are trending downwards. So far they are doing better than some more restrictive countries. It will be interesting to see how by the end of the pandemic this all works out, when deaths from all waves are totalled up.
Data source is Johns Hopkins University
ApatheticNoMore
6-13-20, 11:49am
Of course the U.S. has MORE cases per capita than Sweden so if cases were to be believed we HAVE MORE immunity than Sweden (they may be testing less in Sweden than here, that's the hard part). Still estimates are like 3% or people maybe have had it here.
Not yet more deaths per capita than Sweden in the U.S., maybe give it time. Of course every country is counting deaths somewhat differently as well.
It's possible most just socially distanced voluntarily in Sweden, at any rate their economy seems to have taken a hit as big as surrounding countries that did a lockdown did, whether from voluntary social distancing or just the economic hit of the virus itself.
source: the coronavirus graph on weather.com whose source it the World Health Organization.
The trend in this country, especially in the South, is to not test and/or hide statistics pertaining to incidence of or death due to COVID19. IIRC, the FEMA website lists one case and no deaths at the Kirkland nursing home that had something like 35 fatalities early in the pandemic.
During the interview, Anders Tegnell said, "If we were to run into the same disease, knowing exactly what we know about it today, I think we would end up doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done," according to a Reuters translation. (Newsweek)
Sweden's death rate is very close to ten percent, but they do have a functioning health care system that doesn't gouge its citizens. Small comfort to the families of those who died.
Teacher Terry
6-13-20, 12:34pm
We also have no idea if people get a herd immunity with this virus.
Sweden - the guy in charge of their response plan says he did it wrong:
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/man-behind-sweden-s-controversial-coronavirus-strategy-admits-mistakes-20200603-p54z99.html
On the news I saw professional baseball and basketball players practicing right next to each other, none of them wearing masks. I don't blame them since masks make it hard to breathe. Everyone should have that same right to breathe freely, not just elite athletes.
happystuff
6-14-20, 7:57am
On the news I saw professional baseball and basketball players practicing right next to each other, none of them wearing masks. I don't blame them since masks make it hard to breathe. Everyone should have that same right to breathe freely, not just elite athletes.
So go outside - away from others - and breathe freely. Have your right to breathe freely, but don't violate my right not to get sick from you in the process.
So go outside - away from others - and breathe freely. Have your right to breathe freely, but don't violate my right not to get sick from you in the process.
Or you could stay 6 feet away from me if you think I am sick, which I am not. It is very rare for an asymptomatic person to transmit the virus to anyone else. I stay away from other people and I wish they would reciprocate.
happystuff
6-14-20, 8:41am
Or you could stay 6 feet away from me if you think I am sick, which I am not. It is very rare for an asymptomatic person to transmit the virus to anyone else. I stay away from other people and I wish they would reciprocate.
And that is the point - you can only control yourself! Don't put the onus on others but step up and do what you can do to keep YOURSELF - AND OTHERS - safe! I WILL keep away from you but, regardless of my actions, that should NOT stop you from also keeping away from me!
I am not particularly worried about getting the virus. If others are they should stay 6 feet away from me rather than expecting me to alter my life because they don't have the self-control to maintain social distance. I am not a doctor or dental hygienist or hairdresser or anything else that would require someone to get up close and personal with me.
ETA I just saw James Lankford interviewed about about Trump"s rally in Oklahoma. He was asked about holding this in the covid era. He said if you are in a high risk group don't go to the rally. Take some personal responsibility.
happystuff
6-14-20, 9:40am
If others are they should stay 6 feet away from me rather than expecting me to alter my life because they don't have the self-control to maintain social distance.
Okay, I have been giving you the benefit of the doubt, but thanks for the confirmation of your characteristics/personality traits as displayed here - selfish, uncaring, no compassion for others.
I wish you a HEALTHY life, regardless. Bye.
I am keeping my distance, so I am not selfish. People who are lazy and expect me to protect them because they do not want to bother to protect themselves are the selfish ones. Get out of my space if you don't want my perceived germs.
frugal-one
6-14-20, 2:40pm
And that is the point - you can only control yourself! Don't put the onus on others but step up and do what you can do to keep YOURSELF - AND OTHERS - safe! I WILL keep away from you but, regardless of my actions, that should NOT stop you from also keeping away from me!
Too bad we can't stay away from her here too. Always spouting the SAME garbage. Enough even.
On the news I saw professional baseball and basketball players practicing right next to each other, none of them wearing masks.
Did you happen to read the detailed protocols they are using for resuming operations...?
Hint: a photo on "the news" doesn't cover what's going on...
dado potato
6-14-20, 4:16pm
In the state I live in (WI) the percentage of tests that are positive each day has been in the 2% to 4% range since 5/26/2020.
The county I live in (Price) has tested 712 persons in total... 2 tested positive.
The local community is more relaxed... more businesses are open. Yesterday I went to the hardware store. Of 20 customers I saw in the store, just one was wearing a mask. None of the employees were. There was social distancing (6 foot radius) in the check out line.
The Farmers Market is operating 1 day per week. Campgrounds are open. I see quite a few camper trailers being pulled hither and yon on the highway. Taverns and restaurants are open. Everything is open except the banks and credit unions... and customers can call for an appointment if they need anything in a branch.
I am still taking precautions.
I think the backyard bonfires and garage parties are premature. For COVID-19 there still is no vaccine.
Maybe it was a "denial" exercise, but back when WI had 2,267 cases, President Trump said he could see the "light at the end of the tunnel". Now the count of cases is 22,758 (including 692 deaths) in the state.
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