View Full Version : Conavirus......
gimmethesimplelife
1-27-20, 9:58am
How concerned are you about this virus? We've just had a case found here in Maricopa County (urban Phoenix area) from an ASU student just returned from Wuhan. What really scares me here is international travel is continuing AND the Chinese government has admitted that this virus can spread from person to person BEFORE an individual becomes symptomatic.
Maybe it's because one of my two favorite American works of fiction is Stephen King's The Stand - a horror novel I always found somewhat believable regarding a Superflu killing off most human beings on the planet. This virus has me spooked something fierce and I'm not alone in this. SO and family are spooked regarding the potential of this virus arriving in Mexico City which has numerous shantytowns on the outskirts.....tightly packed living conditions and less than first world sanitation standards.....whatever could go wrong there, you know?
I will be stocking up on over the counter immunity boosting herbs - it's what little I can do. Are you'all concerned? Thinking the media has overdone this? Or? Rob
I think we are always facing this possibility of this kind of epidemic, so I like your plan to keep yourself in the best health possible, use supplements, and use common sense.
This is not anything new. Watch this american Experience about the 1918 influenza outbreak:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/influenza/
Very interesting, and talks about why we seem to forget this event.
iris lilies
1-27-20, 10:32am
The news media loves scare tactics stories. They love scaring you. Notice how you are taking up their bait “ being spooked something fierce.” Your SO and his family, also ” spooked.”
None of us can predict the future so we can only speak in generalities which are: some people will die from this infection, Probably not many, probably not people we know, we all need to work to maintain our immune system, this too shall pass.
Every time a new viral disease appears there is some risk that it will be highly communicable, high mortality, and/or difficult to control. So far we've been able to control or confine the new ones. This is not feeling like the big one, but it's probably too early to tell and you never know. I lost several ancestral relatives in the 1918 flu pandemic.
The coronavirus is the latest in a long string of bugs capable of doing serious harm to populations. The biggest threat is how mobile our society is these days with a good probability that someone infected on the other side of the world can bring it with them to a different continent in the course of a single day. Back in a simpler time we (the US) dealt with that sort of thing by setting up inspection stations such as Ellis Island where anyone visiting this country could be checked for disease before being granted entry. We don't do that anymore and heaven forbid any obviously racist, nationalistic, bitter clinging republican suggest it. That's the biggest threat we face with something like this.
Back in a simpler time we (the US) dealt with that sort of thing by setting up inspection stations such as Ellis Island where anyone visiting this country could be checked for disease before being granted entry. We don't do that anymore and heaven forbid any obviously racist, nationalistic, bitter clinging republican suggest it. That's the biggest threat we face with something like this.
It's also worth mentioning Trump's budget cuts to the National Institute of Health and the CDC as a move to eliminate "government waste". Without making a study of things, they seemed large.
iris lilies
1-27-20, 12:13pm
The coronavirus is the latest in a long string of bugs capable of doing serious harm to populations. The biggest threat is how mobile our society is these days with a good probability that someone infected on the other side of the world can bring it with them to a different continent in the course of a single day. Back in a simpler time we (the US) dealt with that sort of thing by setting up inspection stations such as Ellis Island where anyone visiting this country could be checked for disease before being granted entry. We don't do that anymore and heaven forbid any obviously racist, nationalistic, bitter clinging republican suggest it. That's the biggest threat we face with something like this.
You’re such a bitter clinger. :~)
I'm on the regional infectious disease control team. We transport Ebola patients and other fun things. I keep a biohazard response kit packed and ready at all time, which includes the cool suits and so on.
We get information often a bit ahead of the media spin cycle, and it's often less-spun. The information I receive has consistently indicated the potential is much worse than most folks believe, and that the on-the-ground situation was much worse than is/was being reported. Consistently, about a day or two after each report I get, public information confirming has appeared.
We're taking all available precautions.
It is fascinating to watch the political posturing, media fluffery, anti-science mobs, and conspiracy nuts develop during the situation.
I'm planning to continue to sequester myself at home, to avoid hugging random people, and to keep an eye on developments--in other words, business as usual.
I hope this isn't really much of a threat.
Teacher Terry
1-27-20, 1:03pm
I am somewhat concerned and glad that my kids are on their way home from Thailand. People over 60 are dying the most. My other son is in Vietnam and it’s a huge crowded city and I am concerned about when it gets there.
I am somewhat concerned and glad that my kids are on their way home from Thailand. People over 60 are dying the most. My other son is in Vietnam and it’s a huge crowded city and I am concerned about when it gets there.
A problem these days is that the world is so interconnected.
You'd think my local community would be safe, being on an island 20 miles offshore. But, we are a major worldwide tourist destination, and we are right in between Vancouver, Victoria, and Seattle. Which are tourist destinations themselves.
Some days back, this little tidbit came out from our medical director:
"Team,
Many of you have probably seen the news about the new virus from Wuhan, China, that has now made it's way to Everett as well as other countries throughout Asia. The largest annual migration in human history begins Friday (Chinese New Year) and last for one week. Given the large number of travelers and the very large population of Chinese immigrants in the lower mainland of BC it would not be surprising to see cases there over the next few weeks. There is no screening at the airports in either Seattle or Vancouver. Lunar New Year is similar to our Christmas holiday with many Chinese (and other Asian countries) traveling to share the holiday with friends and family."
Oh well, I guess we need something to control the population.
Also interesting is the amount of racism and jingoism this event has shaken out of the attic....
Teacher Terry
1-27-20, 2:25pm
When any country has a virus outbreak that’s dangerous it would be prudent to close down the airports so people can’t fly until it’s under control. Of course that won’t happen because of the economic impact and violating civil rights. I would rather be inconvenienced but still alive. My mom said when she was young if you were contagious you hung a sign on your door so people were warned and you stayed home until well.
I was reading old newspapers from this area from 1918, and they quarantined our town from other towns that were only 20 miles away, and going into our town from the other town would get people arrested.
I was reading old newspapers from this area from 1918, and they quarantined our town from other towns that were only 20 miles away, and going into our town from the other town would get people arrested.
https://paw.princeton.edu/article/why-princeton-was-spared
When any country has a virus outbreak that’s dangerous it would be prudent to close down the airports so people can’t fly until it’s under control. Of course that won’t happen because of the economic impact and violating civil rights.
My understanding is that the Chinese government moved incredibly swiftly to contain this, using measures that would never happen here in the USA.
However, often by the time such a clampdown happens, the infection has escaped the containment area. And with things like this, which look like they may be contagious before symptoms present, given the interconnectedness of modern society, the infection may have gotten around the planet before anyone knows there's a real problem developing.
happystuff
1-27-20, 5:51pm
I am somewhat concerned and glad that my kids are on their way home from Thailand. People over 60 are dying the most. My other son is in Vietnam and it’s a huge crowded city and I am concerned about when it gets there.
I hope your children remain safe.
iris lilies
1-27-20, 6:10pm
My sister-in-law and her husband are in China now and are coming home next week. They, along with DH and their siblings, will all gather in the hellishly hot family farm house in Iowa for a family meeting.
Last year at this time at the same hellishly hot stuffy farm house, gathering place for 35 people including snotty nosed toddlers who spread their demon germs everywhere, DH and I caught the bug from hell that had me sick for 12 months. I will not make the Iowa trip this time. I should quarantine DH.
Actually, thought bubble: I CAN do that! He can come back to Missouri through Hermann and can stay in Hermann through the Incubation period. I am serious I think I’m going to ask him to do that, assuming they do have this family meeting. I wouldn’t be surprised if they call it off due to the China travelers.
Teacher Terry
1-27-20, 7:03pm
They should call off the meeting IL.
iris lilies
1-27-20, 8:40pm
They should call off the meeting IL.
yes, the micro climate of that house, shut up in the middle of winter with no outside ventilation, creates a petri dish.
I am guessing DH’s troublesome sister who is always sickly will cry “I can’t come due to China infection risk” and since she is pivotal in the deal making, it would render the meetup moot. That is, unless they do teleconferencing, which they might.
Rob you might like pandemic novels by Richard Preston and Michael Crichton.
flowerseverywhere
1-28-20, 6:22am
I'm on the regional infectious disease control team. We transport Ebola patients and other fun things. I keep a biohazard response kit packed and ready at all time, which includes the cool suits and so on.
We get information often a bit ahead of the media spin cycle, and it's often less-spun. The information I receive has consistently indicated the potential is much worse than most folks believe, and that the on-the-ground situation was much worse than is/was being reported. Consistently, about a day or two after each report I get, public information confirming has appeared.
We're taking all available precautions.
It is fascinating to watch the political posturing, media fluffery, anti-science mobs, and conspiracy nuts develop during the situation.
reading your posts through the years you are extremely informed, logical and non hysterical. Your info was my initial feeling when Coronavirus news starting coming out. Our medical system is already taxed in many places.
looking at the breakdown of deaths, they are largely skewed towards 60 years old and up.
The cat is out of the bag, so to speak and the known cases are multiplying at frighteningly rapid rates. It is almost everywhere in the world now, with a very high mortality rate.
Besides the obvious health implications, this could have a big effect on the world economy. With large portions of China on lockdown, exports will be strained and as we all know, it is hard to find an article of clothing or any item for that matter made in North America. Retail and other service jobs such as restaurants and truck transport are such huge parts of our economy if people stay home and transport slows down (ie.people are afraid to fly, eat out or go to stores) we could be in for a rough ride.
I was due to travel to Asia and Europe again next month but had to turn it down because of scheduling conflicts, and I have to admit, I'm relieved. I like the notion of "sequestering the healthy" that was in the article bae posted about Princeton's response to the 1918 pandemic. The more I can sequester myself, within reason, the safer I'll feel until this thing is over.
gimmethesimplelife
1-28-20, 11:22am
I managed to break away from work for 1/2 hour yesterday - it's my busy season right now. To date there have been no conference cancellations but this could change going forward. During my 1/2 hour away from work I was able to buy a few bottles of goldenseal tincture for myself and family plus I've bought more online to arrive soon. Ir's what little I can do. Also I'm eating raw onion - small amounts - before I call it a day - raw onion has been documented to kill off TB. Chewing parsley helps with breath and onions are not as breath problematic as garlic. Wondering if garlic tincture exists? It's a wonderful immune booster.
And something nice? The citrus tree in my front yard is a source of immune boosting vitamin C. I just believe now is a time to hunker down and boost immunity. And my trip to Thailand is up in the air. I believe it's best to see how this virus is going to play out before visiting SE Asia. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-28-20, 11:23am
Rob you might like pandemic novels by Richard Preston and Michael Crichton.Thank You, Yppej. I will look into these novels for post season reading. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-28-20, 11:26am
I was due to travel to Asia and Europe again next month but had to turn it down because of scheduling conflicts, and I have to admit, I'm relieved. I like the notion of "sequestering the healthy" that was in the article bae posted about Princeton's response to the 1918 pandemic. The more I can sequester myself, within reason, the safer I'll feel until this thing is over.I can completely understand your relief, Catherine. I myself am putting off travel to Thailand until such a date as there is more safety from and more overall known about this virus. Just think it's for the best. Rob
If onions and garlic are the answer, Iris Lily and I are covered. :~)
flowerseverywhere
1-28-20, 5:23pm
https://paw.princeton.edu/article/why-princeton-was-spared
interesting. I imagine subways, amusement parks, airplanes and airports, super bowl stadiums etc. would be very difficult places to avoid the virus if it continues to spread. For people in cities, this would prove to be difficult just to live.
We live 1.5 hours from disneyworld so I would not be surprised to see cases near me. All the theme parks are always packed. Even going to the grocery store when it is not crowded seems prudent. Self isolation as much as possible does not seem like a bad idea as this evolves.
by the way, rumors are spreading it is much worse in China than authorities have let on. Imagine, government officials could be lying. .
I did a major resupply trip to my Grocery Outlet today, so I'm set for a siege.
I always gauge my shopping trips to avoid traffic and excess people, as I need a nearby parking place.
Aren't they quarantining people in place? I swear I read somewhere the authorities are shooting people who try to leave. That can't be right...
gimmethesimplelife
1-28-20, 7:53pm
interesting. I imagine subways, amusement parks, airplanes and airports, super bowl stadiums etc. would be very difficult places to avoid the virus if it continues to spread. For people in cities, this would prove to be difficult just to live.
We live 1.5 hours from disneyworld so I would not be surprised to see cases near me. All the theme parks are always packed. Even going to the grocery store when it is not crowded seems prudent. Self isolation as much as possible does not seem like a bad idea as this evolves.
by the way, rumors are spreading it is much worse in China than authorities have let on. Imagine, government officials could be lying. .Though it is a bit of a gloom porn site, on The Economic Collapse, yesterday's blog entry was about just that.....things being worse in China than the Chinese government is letting on. Who knows? Rob
It just amazes me when they said Wuhan was the size of London, 10 million or so. Imagine any city of that size being quarantined in any other country. There are Youtube videos being made by westerners in Wuhan showing how it is.
Teacher Terry
1-28-20, 10:22pm
My kids got home from Thailand yesterday and said Bangkok airport was full of coughing Chinese returning home from the holidays.
My kids got home from Thailand yesterday and said Bangkok airport was full of coughing Chinese returning home from the holidays.
Yikes! It begins...:0!
My kids got home from Thailand yesterday and said Bangkok airport was full of coughing Chinese returning home from the holidays.
My daughter lives in Cambridge in the UK. It is a major tourist destination for Chinese folks. Her housing this year is in a lovely new-ish college, with a large proportion of foreign grad students, especially from the Pacific Rim.
Fingers crossed. If she sticks to her usual lifestyle of living in the sub-basement of some forgotten library reading through 1200 year old manuscripts, she'll be fine.
gimmethesimplelife
1-29-20, 3:21pm
My kids got home from Thailand yesterday and said Bangkok airport was full of coughing Chinese returning home from the holidays.TT, the latest I have read is that Thailand is up to 14 cases and with your son's experience at the Bangkok Airport, I'm all about holding off on a visit to Bangkok until we see how this virus is going to play out. Something positive for once about this virus - if this indeed can be considered positive per se - is that the mortality rate thus far is averaging 2.1% - I'm still taking goldenseal and eating onions anyway, and I'm also stocking up on oil of oregano, also an over the counter antibiotic. On the offhand chance a worst case scenario indeed arrives in North America, I'm already fully stocked up on garlic.....one of the world's best antibiotics and reputed to kill off almost anything. Under a worst case scenario, social approval matters zilch and garlic breath may very well become trendy and a sign of common sense/intelligence. I hope we don't find out if this is indeed the case but I believe in stocking up, just in case. And if not necessary, I still have garlic for cooking at home. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-29-20, 3:27pm
Yikes! It begins...:0!Scary, yes. I'm just glad Thailand has socialized medicine. There is poverty for sure in Thailand and some of the conditions which spread viruses/disease - poverty, crowding, and inadequate sanitation. But look at Hong Kong - it has cases of this virus and great sanitation and little grinding poverty - crowded living conditions seem to be enough with this virus. Very scary - think of Seattle, New York, Philadelphia, Boston - all crowded space-at-a-premium cities. At least people in Thailand can access some level of health care by virtue of being a human being with Thai citizenship, unlike in the United States. Perhaps, if this virus does blow up - America will be exposed for the extreme citizenship risk human life not being worth socialized medicine truly is. Sad that it would take many deaths for more Americans to realize this - but it is what it is. Rob
dado potato
1-29-20, 3:50pm
... Back in a simpler time we (the US) dealt with that sort of thing by setting up inspection stations such as Ellis Island where anyone visiting this country could be checked for disease before being granted entry. We don't do that anymore...
I understand that at 20 US airports, which handle 90% of deplaning passengers from China, there is medical screening (Does each passenger have a fever? do they appear to be sniffling or coughing?) Passengers also fill out a questionnaire before the plane lands.
Passengers who are suspected of being sick may be assigned to one of 20 regional quarantine stations... and I think they can be held a couple of weeks.
I'm still taking goldenseal and eating onions anyway, and I'm also stocking up on oil of oregano, also an over the counter antibiotic. On the offhand chance a worst case scenario indeed arrives in North America, I'm already fully stocked up on garlic.....one of the world's best antibiotics and reputed to kill off almost anything.
So, do you know what antibiotics do?
How well do they work on viruses?
Show your sources...
I might also recommend looking into the FEMA structure marking protocols, and make sure your neighbors understand them...
So, do you know what antibiotics do?
How well do they work on viruses?
Show your sources...
I might also recommend looking into the FEMA structure marking protocols, and make sure your neighbors understand them...
The excuse doctors use for over-prescription seems to be "You may have a concomitant bacterial infection, too--so just to be sure..."
Australian researchers have managed to clone the virus, so a vaccine is likely in the works.
I wonder if existing anti-virals work on this strain.
The excuse doctors use for over-prescription seems to be "You may have a concomitant bacterial infection, too--so just to be sure..."
Australian researchers have managed to clone the virus, so a vaccine is likely in the works.
I wonder if existing anti-virals work on this strain.
It may be an excuse, but many times people will come down with a bacterial infection on top of viral infection, so I'm not sure I would disagree with having antibiotics on hand, or if the doctor hit a questionable mystery illness with antibiotics after someone had been battling a virus less than successfully.
The bacterial is the secondary infection, obviously. My husband just had a viral bronchitis for 8 weeks and finally went to the doctor and he cleared his lungs with 5 days on an antibiotic. I don;t think he over-prescribed. But I'm not a doctor, and actually, try to stay away from doctors.
mamalatte
1-29-20, 11:21pm
Am I wrong in thinking about this as about the same level of scariness as the flu? It kind of makes me feel better to think about it that way because, even though the flu is no joke, I don't spend all day worrying about it.
Below are some stats about the flu. I copied these from a site called sharecare.com which I hadn't heard of before, but the information matched with numerous other sites where I saw the same stats.
"The flu infects millions of us -- 5 to 20 percent of the U.S. population, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). In Canada, 10 to 25 percent of the population gets the flu each year, according to Health Canada. It can leave us achy, sniffling, sneezing, coughing and generally feeling miserable for a few days or weeks.
Most think of the flu as a mild annoyance that comes around each winter, but it can be a very dangerous disease. In the United States alone, the CDC estimates that more than 200,000 people are hospitalized each year with the flu or with flu-related complications. More than 36,000 people die.
The World Health Organization has determined that the flu kills between 250,000 to 500,000 people each year."
I have seen similar flu figures that are intended to make the coronavirus seem less like some sort of pandemic. From what I can tell, we probably don't know. The numbers out of China are probably understated or incorrect, but a mortality rate of about 2%. The flu virus numbers are large in part because it is relatively common. Comparing the two, if 5% of the US 300 million population gets the corona virus with a mortality rate of 2%, the death toll might be 300,000. Rather than comparing absolute numbers, it makes more sense to talk about in terms of communicability and mortality rate. I don't think we know enough about things, yet.
We are approaching it we would any other possible epidemic at the hospital where I work. I think of it as similar to influenza, SARS, MERS, etc. The difference is we know less detail about how this virus works.
The truth is that humans are always vulnerable to pandemics and sudden death. We just forget that most of the time as we go about our lives.
The number one hint for avoiding just about any air-borne communicable disease, beyond social isolation: don't touch your face with your hands. Unless someone actually coughs or sneezes in your immediate vicinity you're most likely to pick up germs by touching things that have microscopic-droplets of mucus or saliva on them and then touching your eyes, mouth or nose.
I was talking about this last night and realized that while some people may be over reacting, some are just either too young or ... bad at math. The whole "the flu kills 20-80K people a year so this is no big deal" contingent. The 1918 pandemic killed approximately 2.5% of the people on earth. Today's 2.5% is closing in on 200 million people. Not saying this is "the big one" but that number gives some idea of what disease can do.
They’ve just confirmed that the Chicago area woman who got it from travel to China has now passed it to her husband.
I’m waiting to see how it’s going to affect my work (int’l shipping). So far all my China offices and vendors are working from home. I have stuff scheduled to sail next week and we’re wondering if there will be workers to load the ships.
Teacher Terry
1-30-20, 2:42pm
Vegas thinks they have a case but it will be 2 days before they know for sure.
Obviously not a fully valid comparison, but over a few generations something like 90 or 95 percent of the Native American populations died from diseases introduced by Europeans.
The WHO just officially declared it an international emergency.
Even here in my most progressive little corner of the world, I'm seeing this incident cause all sorts of ugly racism and stereotypes to pop up:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/30/opinions/wuhan-coronavirus-is-fueling-racism-xenophobia-yang/index.html
People never fail to disappoint me.
iris lilies
1-31-20, 2:16pm
Even here in my most progressive little corner of the world, I'm seeing this incident cause all sorts of ugly racism and stereotypes to pop up:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/30/opinions/wuhan-coronavirus-is-fueling-racism-xenophobia-yang/index.html
Of the two linked articles about Chinese scientists, the first one is unavailable. I am interested in widespread “purging” of U.S. citizen-scientists from university teaching rosters. Too bad that article is absent. Chinese undergrads and grad students are a backbone of Agriculture programs all over the country, so I find it hard to believe place like ISU AG will give up that lucrative Yen fueled tuition.
The second article, a summary type piece, gives no information about what led to Xin Zhao’s investigation and charges. Entirely race based? That is preposterous.
The rest of this CNN article is a history lesson or anecdotes.
As for contemporary narrative, my sister in law called this morning. She is recently back from
China. She said they took her temperature and that of her husband before they could board the plane home to the U.S.
Our latest state-level guidance:
https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/Coronavirus/Resources
Of note for me is the new prehospital contact/transport guidance, which basically has us implement SARS/MERS protocols, which is not quite the full Ebola suit, thank goodness:
https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/InfectionControlforPrehospitalEMS2019-nCoV.pdf
gimmethesimplelife
1-31-20, 4:14pm
People never fail to disappoint me.Same here. Rob
Chicken lady
1-31-20, 8:06pm
Jane and Rob, your expectations are clearly too high. People often surprise me pleasantly.
I'm on the regional infectious disease control team. ...
It is fascinating to watch the political posturing, media fluffery, anti-science mobs, and conspiracy nuts develop during the situation.
Thank you for taking us behind the scenes. I tend to think hard about "media fluffery" before getting overly concerned.
But last night, I heard Anthony Fauci on PBS ("I think you have to be realistic and say, it is possible that it could turn into a global pandemic"). I've begun taking this more seriously.
Here is the transcript and video of the segment with Fauci:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-sustained-transmission-of-novel-coronavirus-is-what-would-concern-u-s-officials
Jane and Rob, your expectations are clearly too high. People often surprise me pleasantly.
I fully agree, CL!
gimmethesimplelife
2-1-20, 10:08am
So, do you know what antibiotics do?
How well do they work on viruses?
Show your sources...
I might also recommend looking into the FEMA structure marking protocols, and make sure your neighbors understand them...The whole point of these herbs is to boost immunity in the first place, in an affordable way. And I'm already finding that oil of oregano gives me more energy. Rob
happystuff
2-1-20, 11:11am
It may be an excuse, but many times people will come down with a bacterial infection on top of viral infection, so I'm not sure I would disagree with having antibiotics on hand, or if the doctor hit a questionable mystery illness with antibiotics after someone had been battling a virus less than successfully.
The bacterial is the secondary infection, obviously. My husband just had a viral bronchitis for 8 weeks and finally went to the doctor and he cleared his lungs with 5 days on an antibiotic. I don;t think he over-prescribed. But I'm not a doctor, and actually, try to stay away from doctors.
Not sure how or if this applies, but I am going BACK to the dr in 45 minutes. I first went exactly 1 month ago today with congestion, a "producing" cough that wouldn't quit,- but no chest pain like when I've had bronchitis - and low grade temp. That visit got me 10 days of Amoxicillan (told dr that doesn't work on me - but what do I know about my own body?!?!?!) In the following month, "producing" cough never completely went away, but started feeling better.
Woke up this morning with increased cough and now chest pain while coughing. NOT waiting for symptoms to get worse, but am wondering what the treatment will be this time.
If I end up on more/stronger antibiotics, I do/will consider it over-prescribing simply because they didn't prescribe correctly in the first place.
Sigh... a month is too long. I'm tired of feeling like crap. (Sorry for the whining.)
In my brief searches for updates, there is an incredible amount of misinformation and conspiracy theory floating around in social media. One of my concerns, which might border line some of these, is that we seem to live in an age of disinformation. Thinking of hurricane Dorian as an example, I have a low level of trust of our current administration to be forthcoming with accurate and honest information. He's pretty much of a science moron and may want to protect wall street. So that's my conspiracy theory.
rosarugosa
2-1-20, 12:32pm
Good luck, Happystuff.
Teacher Terry
2-1-20, 1:14pm
Happy, I had a bad cold 2 months ago and a non productive cough that never went away. Now I have another cold, sore throat and cough. This is getting old.
Thanks, rosarugosa and TT.
Diagnosis is now, officially, bronchitis and meds are now 12 day course of prednisone and a pint bottle of Promethazine+ cough medicine. Have to laugh at the big bottle of cough medicine - it says don't drink alcohol while using, yet right on front says "Alcohol 7.0%". At least I may sleep a little better. ;)
TT - good luck shaking whatever you have. Don't wait too long to get to a dr, if you have to.
Teacher Terry
2-1-20, 5:49pm
I bet you will sleep better:)).
The Washington Post had an article saying the Coronavirus is less of a threat than the flu...for now. Then today the Pentagon announced they were prepared to house 1,000 quarantined people in military bases. I've watched too many zombie films, but that is sounding familiar. I'm probably still in the not enough information place, but aside from the more important issues of life and health, it's not stacking up very well for the global economy.
Thanks, rosarugosa and TT.
Diagnosis is now, officially, bronchitis and meds are now 12 day course of prednisone and a pint bottle of Promethazine+ cough medicine. Have to laugh at the big bottle of cough medicine - it says don't drink alcohol while using, yet right on front says "Alcohol 7.0%". At least I may sleep a little better. ;)
TT - good luck shaking whatever you have. Don't wait too long to get to a dr, if you have to.
You know, I was going to suggest prednisone, but since I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on the internet . . .
Prednisone has saved my life on more than one occasion.
I'm sure my eyes have suffered, and I know my weight has suffered, but I'm alive, so there is that.
My 91 year old dad is taking it now and has a new lease on life. His quality of life is infinitely better than it was a year ago.
Obviously, if you can get off it when you are done with the burst, that is better still!
iris lilies
2-2-20, 11:13am
Prednisone has been a multi-use drug for my dogs.
Prednisone is a wonder drug when used at the right time and in the right amounts. It has some really serious side effects but oh, the relief. At one time I would have seriously considered getting some from a vet when the doctor told me to just suffer.
I wonder about the draconian measures being taken to contain this virus. What do they know that they're not telling the world, exactly?
gimmethesimplelife
2-2-20, 5:16pm
I wonder about the draconian measures being taken to contain this virus. What do they know that they're not telling the world, exactly?Agreed. I have a very hard time trusting any government - yes, this includes Austria, by the way (Holocaust involvement and inability to fess up to it's involvement therein until very recently with the Sebastian Kurz government). Because of this I of course try to keep up with what the media is saying.....taken with a huge boulder of salt and a dose of herbal over the counter immune boosters. I know of a gloom porn site (if you depress easily, don't check it out), The Economic Collapse Blog, that claims that the death count and infected counts are realistically much higher. There is also leaked video of the inside of the hospital in Wuhan with scores of sick folks clogging the aisles and supposedly three deceased patients and no one to deal with the bodies. Very very creepy.
My advice? Herbal immunity boosters.....I don't know what else one can do at this point but I'd also be avoiding travel right now, too - though I still would go to Mexico (at the moment) until such a date as the virus wreaks havoc there. Ay carumba.....those who don't like everything being made in China? Perhaps in the future not as much will indeed be made there? Maybe Central America could be the low wage manufacturing hub in the future? Such might keep migrants away from the border and would serve to give this area desperately needed jobs. Rob
It's never a bad idea to bolster your immunity with foods and supplements--and keep your microbiome--the foundation of immunity--happy with fermented foods and pre-and pro-biotics.
iris lilies
2-2-20, 7:11pm
Rob,
I am disappointed if that doom and gloom website you mention doesn't implicate a deliberately engineered virus, developed from HIV, as the conovirus. Doomdayers are nothing without their conspiracy theories.
gimmethesimplelife
2-2-20, 7:32pm
Rob,
I am disappointed if that doom and gloom website you mention doesn't implicate a deliberately engineered virus, developed from HIV, as the conovirus. Doomdayers are nothing without their conspiracy theories.Sorry to disappoint, IL. No such claims have been made by this site - to date, anyway. Rob
Teacher Terry
2-3-20, 8:44pm
Made a doctor appointment for tomorrow. 2 months of coughing is getting old and I have had a bad headache all day that aspirin won’t fix and my BP is high.
flowerseverywhere
2-3-20, 10:44pm
Over 20,000 cases now despite the quarantine of millions, face masks, airport screenings, flight cancellations and so on.
I thought this was an excellent NPR article about why the coronavirus is different than the flu and why so many precautions are being taken. I thought it put some of the unknowns into a perspective that is neither panicky or passive.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/02/03/802392420/why-the-response-to-the-new-coronavirus-has-been-so-aggressive
Made a doctor appointment for tomorrow. 2 months of coughing is getting old and I have had a bad headache all day that aspirin won’t fix and my BP is high.
Hope the dr visit did some good and you are on your way to feeling better.
According to Al-Jazeera, China is speed-building hospitals to treat the afflicted. First time I've heard of that happening.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/02/china-races-build-hospitals-coronavirus-outbreak-grows-200205033913557.html
Johns Hopkins posts current total number of case, number of deaths, and number recovered, and also breaks them down by country along with an interactive map. At least so far there doesn't appear to be any big escalations outside of mainland China. Unfortunately, the chart showing number of cases by day is not leveling off.
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
There is a youtube video series you can find under "Medcram". He gives short updates with very clear explanations of the current state of information and statistics. He provides his sources. I think he is up to #10 updates.
Teacher Terry
2-6-20, 1:22pm
Thanks Happy. My doctor said my lungs were clear which is good with my asthma. She gave me something to suppress my coughing. Then after I filled it I coughed something up instead of being a dry cough. She said as long as it’s clear or cream color I could still take it. It has cut down on the coughing but today I coughed up yellow so I have to stop taking it. Ugh!
We had additional training and protocols set out today.
A prudent person would be prepared to shelter in-place for 21 days.
This is the same advice I would give you, minimum, for winter storms or earthquakes....
https://apple.news/Auot6cG0MQtCzvYFmcGubSA
This is starting to sound like a multi year worldwide difficult to manage pandemic situation. We have plans to see our son in Carson City in April and I think we might just drive from Phoenix instead of flying. It’s a 12 Hour drive but we have plenty of time because I took 10 days off work. I’m just not feeling comfortable lately with large crowds in enclosed spaces.
The recent WHO update said there is still hope of it being contained, but that window is closing quickly. My level of concern is quite a bit more than a week ago before South Korea, Italy and Iran cases. Personally I wouldn't be especially concerned about a flight from Phoenix to Carson City right now, but airports on the crowded coastal areas with more foreign travelers might be a different case. That could change by April.
And we were planning on PHX to Toronto in June to see our daughter. We’ll see how things look in May ...
And we were planning on PHX to Toronto in June to see our daughter. We’ll see how things look in May ...
Trump assures us the threat will be over by April, so we can all go back to worrying about windmill cancer.
gimmethesimplelife
2-23-20, 8:53pm
As for my travel plans.....Bangkok is now off the table. I am not comfortable flying to Asia as I'd fly EVA and Taiwan now has cases as does Thailand, as do most other Asian nations.
So - I was thinking of a return to Morocco - but that would be this summer and who knows how this virus will play out the next few months? I am especially creeped out by the new cases in Italy - a first world country with decent health care - and Iran - not so first world but isolated to some degree from China and the majority of cases. Or should I past tense that and say was isolated. Creepy.
I have a feeling that international travel may - at least for awhile until we know more about the virus/have a vaccine - become a thing of the past or at least a thing put on hold for quite some time.
For myself, I am continuing with echinacea, goldenseal, and oil of oregano, with the addition of astragulus tincture - all meant to help boost my immunity. Rob
PS About the return to Morocco? The sanest way I've found to fly directly to Rabat with the main stretch of the trip being in Premium Economy is on Air France - France also has cases of the virus and I've heard CDG can be extremely stressful to transit through. So we'll see.....
As for my travel plans.....Bangkok is now off the table. I am not comfortable flying to Asia as I'd fly EVA and Taiwan now has cases as does Thailand, as do most other Asian nations.
So - I was thinking of a return to Morocco - but that would be this summer and who knows how this virus will play out the next few months? I am especially creeped out by the new cases in Italy - a first world country with decent health care - and Iran - not so first world but isolated to some degree from China and the majority of cases. Or should I past tense that and say was isolated. Creepy.
I have a feeling that international travel may - at least for awhile until we know more about the virus/have a vaccine - become a thing of the past or at least a thing put on hold for quite some time.
For myself, I am continuing with echinacea, goldenseal, and oil of oregano, with the addition of astragulus tincture - all meant to help boost my immunity. Rob
PS About the return to Morocco? The sanest way I've found to fly directly to Rabat with the main stretch of the trip being in Premium Economy is on Air France - France also has cases of the virus and I've heard CDG can be extremely stressful to transit through. So we'll see.....
I see you're not immune to first world problems. Doesn't China know our right to international vacations is being severely impacted by their viruses?
gimmethesimplelife
2-23-20, 10:00pm
I see you're not immune to first world problems. Doesn't China know our right to international vacations is being severely impacted by their viruses?I intended no slam nor sarcasm towards China, Alan. For all we know the next virus may originate in the US. I see no reason for the shade towards China due to the virus originating there......but I'm not thrilled with the lack of transparency/cover up attempts, either. Rob
Teacher Terry
2-23-20, 10:06pm
I selfishly am worried about my August Europe trip. Our airfare is nonrefundable
Teacher Terry, we are going to Italy in October. I am resigned that if the new disease causes me to not go, we all be more concerned with things other than money and travel. We figure airfares are nonrefundable but can be changed.
I am watching the videos of two doctors who are very calm and provide their sources. They are becoming more concerned with the data coming from various countries. Iran especially. If it heads to Africa, it is a dangerous situation due to lack of medical infrastructure. Even with care, no one has the infection control space needed for infected patients in serious condition.
I am staying calm but every now and then a "what if" pops in and I have to tamp it down.
Teacher Terry
2-24-20, 12:11pm
Sweet, I am sure you are correct. I can’t remember if I mentioned it in this thread or not but a Chinese reporter who has since disappeared reported that the death rate is 10x’s the reported number. He said that they are running 50 crematoriums 24/7 and the amount of sulfur dioxide in the air supports his claim. Our airfare was a one time special deal so I think we lose it but haven’t checked because it’s so far away and really want to go with my kids.
Even with care, no one has the infection control space needed for infected patients in serious condition.
This is the dirty secret about these sorts of diseases. A handful of Ebola patients would completely absorb my relatively-well-prepared state's resources.
gimmethesimplelife
2-25-20, 9:11am
My heart is heavy. Coronavirus has arrived in the homeland - Austria has it's first two cases, with both patients being treated in Innsbruk. I pray for the best for Austria in regards to this virus. Rob
Teacher Terry
2-25-20, 11:47am
I texted my son in Vietnam but he said that they had 16 cases and all recovered.
A friend just emailed re the coronavirus/covid19. The following should be considered hearsay.
According to employees of an American company in China, they are in self-quarantine and shops and restaurants are closed. They are running out of food. In one city, there are armed guards who will shoot at you if you come out on the streets. (That's a rumor I hear some time ago.)
They are running out of baby formula. Some of the calls they've had with co-workers indicate that usually very calm, rational people are terrified. And said company just got a warning to get their employees out of Italy.
All of that has been in the overseas news. Best thing to overcome irrational fear is to get some medical understanding of what is going on. So far, as the people who caught the disease are recovering, the death rate decreases statistically. It is highest among the elderly and sick (although middle age can die too). Just like influenza. Highly contagious.
I am most interested in whether it can infect the same person over and over or if our antibodies will help protect. Very much a guessing game.
flowerseverywhere
2-26-20, 6:32am
https://www.msnbc.com/hardball/watch/despite-cdc-warnings-rush-limbaugh-dismisses-coronavirus-as-effort-to-bring-down-trump-79434821967
no worries. Rush Limbaugh has said it is all a hoax to bring down Donald Trump. Just a cold. No reason to trust the CDC or WHO. China is even in on the act, destroying their economy all in the effort to bring Trump down. He knows more than the Doctors, scientists etc. apparently. Carry on.
iris lilies
2-26-20, 12:08pm
https://www.msnbc.com/hardball/watch/despite-cdc-warnings-rush-limbaugh-dismisses-coronavirus-as-effort-to-bring-down-trump-79434821967
no worries. Rush Limbaugh has said it is all a hoax to bring down Donald Trump. Just a cold. No reason to trust the CDC or WHO. China is even in on the act, destroying their economy all in the effort to bring Trump down. He knows more than the Doctors, scientists etc. apparently. Carry on.
Sometimes Rush gets things wrong. :)
I was listening to Rush just this week and he was theorizing that the Central Democratic Party knows they’re going to lose in the Presidential election which is why they are not backing their best candidates. They just want to get through the years following the 2020 election to put forth their golden boy or golden girl in 2024.. That would explain why daddy Joe Biden is promoted by the old polls in the party.
I found that theory interesting.
Teacher Terry
2-26-20, 12:47pm
Rush’s 2 racist brain cells quit connecting decades ago:)). Cities in Italy and Hungary are quarantining tourists upon arrival for 2 weeks. I know someone going for a year trip and they are going to be affected by this. China’s death rate is 10x’s what they reported and I doubt Vietnam is telling the truth.
There is a wealth of disinformation spreading around. So far I've found the Aljazeera news and updates to stick to the facts without any hype. The most concerning areas in my view are the middle eastern countries as possible viral hotbeds.
Donald is holding press conference this evening. That should be interesting.
China’s death rate is 10x’s what they reported ...
Do you have a source for this? Your number is at odds with the daily updates my infectious disease control team gets from the CDC, so I'd love to be prepared with more science!
(Your number, by the way, would imply that pretty much anyone over the age of 80 who gets it would be 148% likely to die, using the Chinese CDC numbers... http://weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/article/id/e53946e2-c6c4-41e9-9a9b-fea8db1a8f51)
I wonder how much longer it will be before the image of disease-bearing dirty foreigners is used to justify An Even More Perfect Wall?
https://media.giphy.com/media/OcpGsvBXWfo4w/giphy.gif
Teacher Terry
2-26-20, 3:01pm
Bae, a Chinese reporter who has since disappeared reported that China has 50 crematoriums working 24/7. The amount of sulfur dioxide in the air supports this is true. I am sure you can google it as I didn’t keep the link. They looked at the air quality previously and recently using the information from the air monitors that are used.
Bae, a Chinese reporter who has since disappeared reported that China has 50 crematoriums working 24/7. The amount of sulfur dioxide in the air supports this is true. I am sure you can google it as I didn’t keep the link. They looked at the air quality previously and recently using the information from the air monitors that are used.
Probably he's joined the original whistle-blower.
Well, that certainly sounds more credible than my CDC briefings...
Simplemind
2-26-20, 3:55pm
Those 50 crematoriums must be massive because 50 doesn't seem like a lot (for their population) and they generally do run 24/7.
Our County folks just published a fairly sane article on What You Can Do.
https://orcasissues.com/a-common-sense-local-perspective-on-coronavirus-from-county-health-officials/
I do know here we are spending a lot of time preparing for the worst-case outsome, not because we expect that to happen, but because we want to be ready if it does. It's easier to prepare ahead of time than it is to react once things are running off the rails.
flowerseverywhere
2-26-20, 8:47pm
Our County folks just published a fairly sane article on What You Can Do.
https://orcasissues.com/a-common-sense-local-perspective-on-coronavirus-from-county-health-officials/
I do know here we are spending a lot of time preparing for the worst-case outsome, not because we expect that to happen, but because we want to be ready if it does. It's easier to prepare ahead of time than it is to react once things are running off the rails.
excellent list of things to get. The masks at month six might
be hard to find. Our local stores have zero on the shelves. Food wise, sensible and will keep you from starving or going out if you get hit really hard in your area.
That’s a great link Bae. Common sense approach.
Here is a really dumb question that occurred to me yesterday. I get the idea of quarantine and self quarantine, and they would perhaps close the schools, as they have in China, I guess. In China they are talking about two months with the schools closed.
So how does that work with respect to the disease process? During this quarantine period, does the disease just dry up and go away, or are you just slowing down how many people get it, and is it still there waiting for when everyone comes out quarantine?
I know it's a dumb question, but I wonder what the reasoning is-- so they shut down travel to China, for example, and then when do they restart travel to china--is it numbers of new cases, and why how does the time factor impact the disease itself?
Teacher Terry
2-27-20, 11:55am
My kids jobs with the casinos are tourist dependent so they are not sure if they want to renew their lease on their 2 bedroom apartment in June or move to a smaller one. Rob, I know that your job is also tourist dependent. I also read that the last thing you want to do is get a flu shot because it might make matters worse if you get the virus. I didn’t keep the link and there was a medical term for it so might be something to research ahead of time.
So how does that work with respect to the disease process? During this quarantine period, does the disease just dry up and go away, or are you just slowing down how many people get it, and is it still there waiting for when everyone comes out quarantine?
My simple inexpert explanation. Generally, virus cannot survive long outside a living organism. In a given population, like the lock down people in China, there will be people who aren't exposed to the virus, people who have a natural immunity and are resistant to becoming a host for the virus, people who get sick (or possibly with an asymptomatic infection) and their immune system eliminates the virus, or those that die and can no longer be a host for the virus. So eventually there is not enough viral RNA left among the human population to infect people. I can be corrected on that.
By the way, I'm sure there are corners of the population who still think adversely of the flu shot, but the CDC is doubling down on their recommendations for people to get the shot to avoid unnecessary testing for Coronavirus should they get the flu, and also to reduce the load on a possibly already overloaded medical system if Coronavirus infected people also need medical attention.
ApatheticNoMore
2-27-20, 3:28pm
I also read that the last thing you want to do is get a flu shot because it might make matters worse if you get the virus. I didn’t keep the link and there was a medical term for it so might be something to research ahead of time.
this is NOT the advice that is generally being given, the advice is to GET a flu shot (ok if you are already sick with something (cold, flu, corona virus, whatever) maybe it's not a good idea to get a flu shot WHEN you are sick). But for healthy people the advice is get a flu shot so you have less likelihood to have the flu and think you have corona.
I also read that the last thing you want to do is get a flu shot because it might make matters worse if you get the virus. I didn’t keep the link and there was a medical term for it so might be something to research ahead of time.
That is not the guidance we are receiving from the CDC and from our state health organizations. I'm sticking with their science-based approach.
Terry, everything I am seeing says get a flu shot if you have not already.
Is anyone changing their day-to-day habits because of the corona? Things are very much business as usual here, even though we get a fair amount of tourists and travelers. So far everyone seems pretty chill, including us. It doesn't feel real yet. The only place I'm feeling it is in the stock market.
But dh and I did get our flu shots in the fall. Dh is actually working on a compound they have to see if it will work on the coronavirus. He's in non-profit medical research.
i'm using those hand wipes at store entrances more often and doubling up on reminding myself to wash hands more often after being out. Also, I've been gradually picked up extra groceries for the pantry, sort of like Bae's reference recommended. I've not felt much urgency for that, but everything will get eaten regardless of any outcomes.
Is anyone changing their day-to-day habits because of the corona?
I'm working on training myself not to shake hands, and trying to get in the habit of other social distancing practices. (For instance, I'm going to the grocery store here now when I know it's basically empty.)
We get ~1 million tourists a year here in our community of ~5000 people, so I should probably be better at all this.
iris lilies
2-27-20, 9:13pm
I'm working on training myself not to shake hands, and trying to get in the habit of other social distancing practices. (For instance, I'm going to the grocery store here now when I know it's basically empty.)
We get ~1 million tourists a year here in our community of ~5000 people, so I should probably be better at all this.
Tourism will grind to a halt when this thing really hits. But you will still get people. Stragglers. Bargain hunters.
The other day I was talking with someone in our dancing group and wondered how much of a hit our monthly dance admissions will take when a bunch of older people decide they don't want to be dancing up close and personal with others. The complete opposite of social distancing....
Tourism will grind to a halt when this thing really hits. But you will still get people. Stragglers. Bargain hunters.
I'm dubious about that. People come here because it is "remote" and "unspoiled", I'm worried more may come here, viewing it as a safer place to visit.
I hope you are right though, I'd love a break from the crowds this summer!
Teacher Terry
2-27-20, 9:27pm
We haven’t changed our behavior but it’s not here yet. We will when things change.
I'm working on training myself not to shake hands, and trying to get in the habit of other social distancing practices.
Last week, DH and I went to church (we're still in NJ, and it wasn't a church we've been to before). When we did the Peace, the people in front of us turned to us and said, "Oh, we have a cold, so we're just fist-bumping".
It occurred to us later that they probably don't have a cold; that they are doing the fist-bump because of the virus.
The fist bump seems a poor compromise, you're still touching your hands together.
We do a training drill pretty frequently where we contaminate a surface or a patient with a small amount of very very fine powder that glows in UV, and then do a scenario. After it is over, and everything cleaned up, a bit later we go over with the UV, and see how far the contamination has spread outside the "clean" area. It can make it all the way from the scene to the inside of the station and the break room.
Be careful out there. Your common sense intuition of such things isn't well-tuned.
We haven’t changed our behavior but it’s not here yet. We will when things change.
I think the problem with that is that some of these sorts of diseases are transmissible before you know that it's in your community. By the time you think things have changed, they already have.
Teacher Terry
2-27-20, 10:44pm
Bae, that’s probably true but we already spend a lot of time at home so need to get out some.
Personally I wonder if, depending on how this plays out, this is the point where we realize that lack of paid sick days for low paid workers (fast food/restaurants/grocery stores, etc) is really such a good idea regardless of whether one works those jobs. Sure, I can stay home if I don't feel well. Heck, I work from home so I have the luxury of being able to lie down for a while if I don't feel well and I still get paid and don't have to take a day off. But a minimum wage employee? Not so much. Is it really realistic to ask them/expect them to stay home if they think they have something that may or may not be the coronavirus? Especially if it means they won't make rent or other bills for the month?
It would surely be better for all of us if they could, in fact, stay home when they are sick.
There are a lot of jobs where working from home isn’t an option. Or the employer doesn’t give the Average Joe access, only managers. That’s the way it is at my job. I could access email from home. Nothing more. And you need remote access to our shipping software to really be able to be productive.
ApatheticNoMore
2-28-20, 12:52am
Or the VPN at work might not be able to handle everyone working at home. That seems likely the case.
The paid time off for sick days, yes it's very needed, but haven't we all seen people come into work sick even so? So we have 3 paid sick days a year, which is the legal minimum in CA for full time non-contract work I believe (I also save up at least a couple vacation days for sickness, and I never even get sick almost, like once in the past 4 years or something, but saving up for once in a blue moon). But despite having *some* sick time people are always coming in sick even so and it's that way everywhere even where there is a more generous 5 sick days a year.
Well, a few days ago, State and local governments were moving along relatively smoothly, using protocols and such established during the Ebola outbreak, and I was fairly happy about the state of affairs.
With the Federal government stepping up with some top-notch know-nothings yesterday, and clamping down on information flow and testing/reporting protocols, I am much less happy. It's as if they took everything we learned from the Ebola situation, and all that has been developed since then to deal with these things, and thrown it out the back door.
Good luck.
I've wondered what happens to people quarantined for two weeks. Are they eligible for sick time if they even have that benefit? Short term disability if they even have it?
Just watched a documentary on Youtube about the 1918 Spanish flu. Amazing how similar except that the death rate back then was much much worse. But the handling and government mistakes are so similar.
I can’t help but think we are also seeing an element of panic here. An overpriced market looking for reasons to tank. A media in search of a juicy disaster. A political party hoping the usual Trump Teflon won’t be virus proof. Conspiracy theories about lab bred diseases,
A significant portion of the public associate this virus with the beer of the same name.
dado potato
2-28-20, 10:17am
Corona beer should be safe to drink with a wedge of lime stuck in the bottle neck. (wink)
Speaking of bottle necks... I understand that to test a patient for coronavirus, a hospital needs a specific kit, which is only available from the CDC. I heard a talking head on television say that the entire state of California has 200 kits available. (I don't know if it is a fact.) But I wonder if there might be significant numbers of people who are sick "with a bug" who are not tested, and may be infected without anyone knowing.
SteveinMN
2-28-20, 11:24am
I can’t help but think we are also seeing an element of panic here. An overpriced market looking for reasons to tank. A media in search of a juicy disaster. A political party hoping the usual Trump Teflon won’t be virus proof. Conspiracy theories about lab bred diseases
All. Of. This. I read a news article this morning about someone who had contracted H1N1 ("swine flu") years ago and remembered the crisis around that. Then I remembered the crises around H5N1 ("bird flu", which also centered prominently in China), SARS, ...
It's way too early to tell if COVID-19 is going to be worse than those or if this is just another example of a global infectious disease that lends itself well to pearl-clutching. Not saying it won't be -- it's just too early to know now.
A significant portion of the public associate this virus with the beer of the same name.
All. Of. This. I read a news article this morning about someone who had contracted H1N1 ("swine flu") years ago and remembered the crisis around that. Then I remembered the crises around H5N1 ("bird flu", which also centered prominently in China), SARS, ...
It's way too early to tell if COVID-19 is going to be worse than those or if this is just another example of a global infectious disease that lends itself well to pearl-clutching. Not saying it won't be -- it's just too early to know now.
The beauty of the Chicken Little approach, for those who stand to benefit from it, is that you really can’t lose. On the small chance you’re right (enough), you can say “I told you so”. And if you’re wrong, you can either claim your timely warning saved the day or be almost certain the whole thing will soon be forgotten.
A town nearby quarantined two people and has shut the high school down as a precaution, as one of them is on staff.
Meanwhile, I'm laying in supplies and looking forward to cocooning.
sweetana3
2-28-20, 11:39am
And this is why I concentrate on "real" news from medical sources. Our media fluctuates from ignorance to sensationalism (much like our government officials.)
ApatheticNoMore
2-28-20, 11:48am
I can’t help but think we are also seeing an element of panic here. An overpriced market looking for reasons to tank. A media in search of a juicy disaster. A political party hoping the usual Trump Teflon won’t be virus proof.
a very U.S. centric view. What the U.S. media does or Trump vs the Dems is not that much concern to the rest of the world (I mean I don't doubt much of the rest of the world may want Trump gone, but it's not their priority in life). And yet they still react to corona virus). This doesn't mean it's definitely going to be horrible but that they are taking it seriously.
gimmethesimplelife
2-28-20, 11:50am
I FINALLY have a day off! Just came back from Food City where I took a wheeled cart and started stocking up on canned goods and tp while such is still easily available. Next up are herbal immune boosters and cat food. Thanks to Mexico I have meds stockpiled and so does SO.
Frankly, I'm getting worried. Austria now has three confirmed cases now and when I spoke to my Cousin Astrid late night last night she dropped the superior air she usually uses with me as she does have better citizenship. She was very human and very concerned. And now Mexico has two confirmed cases - one in Mexico City and one in Sinaloa State.
As Teacher Terry stated above, my job - and SO's - are very dependent on tourism and therefore vulnerable. Thankfully we've been saving money and thankfully I have places I can stay in Mexico should things end out crazier here than in Mexico. That said, introvert that I am, I do embrace the idea of being quarantined/locked down. I could use a break from society, I really could. Right now any travel plans have been put on hold, though I would still go to Algodones - this could change going forward. It's amazing to me that not too far off it may be problematic to access the human rights of saner costs in Mexico - one of the fundamentals of my life. But.....should things get serious, we'll all have to give things up. At least I have no shortage of reading material at home.
Stay safe and healthy everyone, as best you can. Rob
And this is why I concentrate on "real" news from medical sources. Our media fluctuates from ignorance to sensationalism (much like our government officials.)
With the government deciding which virus news is allowable, I hope our (still free) press steps up and fills in the gap.
With the government deciding which virus news is allowable, I hope our (still free) press steps up and fills in the gap.
Well, I had found the daily data-filled reports from the government quite helpful in preparing to do my job. This seems to be drying up now that Pence The Faithful Scientist has firmly seized the reins, but at least the state-level info is still flowing. I suspect talking heads on the news won't quite fill the same role for me. I wonder if teams like mine will be a bit hesitant to fully engage if we are cut off from information from above.
Well, I had found the daily data-filled reports from the government quite helpful in preparing to do my job. This seems to be drying up now that Pence The Faithful Scientist has firmly seized the reins, but at least the state-level info is still flowing. I suspect talking heads on the news won't quite fill the same role for me. I wonder if teams like mine will be a bit hesitant to fully engage if we are cut off from information from above.
Putting Pence in charge of anything--especially anything scientific--is laughable, and he has a terrible history vis-a-vis communicable diseases.
I share your concern about the mainstream media--I suppose we'll have to dig deeper for useful epidemic information.
Teacher Terry
2-28-20, 1:20pm
Yes Pence in charge is horrible. I am glad we are retired and can just stay home. Of course if we were younger we would have a much better chance of survival if we got it. A doctor in Poland said that they are ill equipped to handle a outbreak. Not surprised as they aren’t a wealthy country.
I share your concern about the mainstream media--I suppose we'll have to dig deeper for useful epidemic information.
Perhaps I understated my concerns - I require specific, actionable data, for our regional infectious disease control team. The information flow is drying up.
It's like the early stages of a bad sci-fi viral outbreak film, when idiot government officials clamp down on info. Maybe that's handy for keeping the public happy, and the stock market working, but it's terrible for people who have to get their hands dirty.
Yes Pence in charge is horrible. I am glad we are retired and can just stay home. Of course if we were younger we would have a much better chance of survival if we got it.
If you are in good health otherwise, I wouldn't worry too much about your age being a huge factor. If you have the sorts of things that unhealthy older people have, your odds do get worse of course.
A doctor in Poland said that they are ill equipped to handle a outbreak. Not surprised as they aren’t a wealthy country.
The terrible truth is that even wealthy countries don't really have the resources to handle more than a few patients who have anything terribly infectious. The whole State of Washington only had a handful of beds at some very specific sites ready to receive Ebola patients. A dozen patients would have exceeded the capacity of the system.
Teacher Terry
2-28-20, 1:45pm
Bae, I can see why you are concerned about the ability to do your job correctly if information is being stifled. I have asthma and HBP and my husband has diabetes. Even a cold hits me hard. We exercise and keep our weight down but both the HBP and diabetes are hereditary. My asthma is induced by my allergies so it’s possible it could go away if I moved to a really cold climate but the doctor isn’t sure.
Bae, I can see why you are concerned about the ability to do your job correctly if information is being stifled. I have asthma and HBP and my husband has diabetes. Even a cold hits me hard.
Be good with your social distancing and handwashing and all that good stuff! Be well!
Bae, I find that there are two calm and in depth sources of daily update. Medcram and Dr. John Campbell on Youtube. They are gathering and summarizing many sources of data and giving easy to understand updates. I have found the US sources full of assumptions, sensationalism, and just plain bad info.
iris lilies
2-28-20, 2:12pm
I FINALLY have a day off! Just came back from Food City where I took a wheeled cart and started stocking up on canned goods and tp while such is still easily available. Next up are herbal immune boosters and cat food. Thanks to Mexico I have meds stockpiled and so does SO.
Frankly, I'm getting worried. Austria now has three confirmed cases now and when I spoke to my Cousin Astrid late night last night she dropped the superior air she usually uses with me as she does have better citizenship. She was very human and very concerned. And now Mexico has two confirmed cases - one in Mexico City and one in Sinaloa State.
As Teacher Terry stated above, my job - and SO's - are very dependent on tourism and therefore vulnerable. Thankfully we've been saving money and thankfully I have places I can stay in Mexico should things end out crazier here than in Mexico. That said, introvert that I am, I do embrace the idea of being quarantined/locked down. I could use a break from society, I really could. Right now any travel plans have been put on hold, though I would still go to Algodones - this could change going forward. It's amazing to me that not too far off it may be problematic to access the human rights of saner costs in Mexico - one of the fundamentals of my life. But.....should things get serious, we'll all have to give things up. At least I have no shortage of reading material at home.
Stay safe and healthy everyone, as best you can. Rob
Austria! Mexico!
Today DH mentioned he may flee to Cuba if he catches Coronavirus because the health care system is so good there, you know.
Bae, I find that there are two calm and in depth sources of daily update. Medcram and Dr. John Campbell on Youtube. They are gathering and summarizing many sources of data and giving easy to understand updates. I have found the US sources full of assumptions, sensationalism, and just plain bad info.
I've been following the daily Medcram updates since you first recommended it. He gets a little technical at times but it's a very good information supplement without any hype.
IL, I'd tell him to try somewhere other than Cuba. My friend watched his pregnant mother get kicked in the stomach by Castro's soldiers during the takeover. He was six.
ApatheticNoMore
2-28-20, 3:24pm
And what do you know it people are working sick here. Like I said it does some good to have paid sick time, but it really doesn't mean that people will stay home sick unless they are on deaths door. At least it might keep those who feel like they are on deaths door out of the workplace!!!
But as is people want to use all their time off including sick time for the beach or something. It's not mature or adult but hey people are idiots duh. It is EVER THUS in my experience. If there was more than sick time but also a truly generous vacation policy (4-5 weeks might do it) so that people weren't saving their sick days for extra vacation time THEN maybe peoples coming to work sick would improve, maybe ... But decades of working and I've seldom seen more than 2 weeks vacation time, have to go to another country for that.
And what do you know it people are working sick here. Like I said it does some good to have paid sick time, but it really doesn't mean that people will stay home sick unless they are on deaths door. At least it might keep those who feel like they are on deaths door out of the workplace!!!
But as is people want to use all their time off including sick time for the beach or something. It's not mature or adult but hey people are idiots duh. It is EVER THUS in my experience. If there was more than sick time but also a truly generous vacation policy (4-5 weeks might do it) so that people weren't saving their sick days for extra vacation time THEN maybe peoples coming to work sick would improve, maybe ... But decades of working and I've seldom seen more than 2 weeks vacation time, have to go to another country for that.
Before retiring I had 5 weeks of annual vacation, 6 annual personal days, 4 annual personal holidays and one week of paid time off for plant shutdown in the summer, plus 10 sick days per year. That's 8 weeks of paid time off without counting sick time. Before that I also had 5 weeks annual vacation and personal days bringing the total paid time off to 6 weeks. And before that I was in the military where I received 30 days of paid leave each year. Most everyone I know had similar, right here in the good ol' USA!
ApatheticNoMore
2-28-20, 3:44pm
I have 10 vacation days and 3 sick days a year (3 paid sick days a year are required under California law, no vacation time is required), no other personal time off, paid national holidays of course. I budget a couple of those 10 vacation days in case of sickness which could take more than 3 days afterall. It makes me livid that others come to work sick. But it happens ALL THE TIME.
gimmethesimplelife
2-28-20, 4:41pm
Austria! Mexico!
Today DH mentioned he may flee to Cuba if he catches Coronavirus because the health care system is so good there, you know.IL, as I've stated before - realistically we don't live in the same country. Please respect this. I can accept that you may find some of what I post to be out there. Granted. The kicker us that in my country, what I have posted is mundane and everyday - akin to talking about the weather. Like they say in Spanish - Asi es la vida. Rob
IL, I'd tell him to try somewhere other than Cuba. My friend watched his pregnant mother get kicked in the stomach by Castro's soldiers during the takeover. He was six.
But they have government health care, that is all that matters.
frugal-one
2-28-20, 5:48pm
Well, a few days ago, State and local governments were moving along relatively smoothly, using protocols and such established during the Ebola outbreak, and I was fairly happy about the state of affairs.
With the Federal government stepping up with some top-notch know-nothings yesterday, and clamping down on information flow and testing/reporting protocols, I am much less happy. It's as if they took everything we learned from the Ebola situation, and all that has been developed since then to deal with these things, and thrown it out the back door.
Good luck.
Yeah, tamping down on information. Disgusting... trump needs to go! He hollowed out the government so there is no one who knows what to do.
frugal-one
2-28-20, 5:52pm
I can’t help but think we are also seeing an element of panic here. An overpriced market looking for reasons to tank. A media in search of a juicy disaster. A political party hoping the usual Trump Teflon won’t be virus proof. Conspiracy theories about lab bred diseases,
A significant portion of the public associate this virus with the beer of the same name.
Talked with an Asian relative with firsthand knowledge... it is WORSE than being reported!
Talked with an Asian relative with firsthand knowledge... it is WORSE than being reported!
What details did you get?
I've been following the daily Medcram updates since you first recommended it. He gets a little technical at times but it's a very good information supplement without any hype.
yes, the biochemical details I have to gloss over but his calmness is helpful.
Anecdotal info is not very helpful. Asian? Korean, Chinese (outside Wuhan and area or inside), Japanese, Taiwan, etc. Each country faces their own issues. "Worse than being reported" exactly what does this mean? Worse for them, worse for the community, worse than what? Are they under quarantine? Or are they just afraid or mad at the change in life style due to limitations being imposed? Sounds so much like what our media is presenting as news.
frugal-one
2-28-20, 6:03pm
What details did you get?
Everyone is on lockdown. even having difficulties going out to replenish food supplies. I did not ask any more since my niece was really upset and freaked out by it all. It was enough to realize this is a MAJOR threat.
frugal-one
2-28-20, 6:06pm
Anecdotal info is not very helpful. Asian? Korean, Chinese (outside Wuhan and area or inside), Japanese, Taiwan, etc. Each country faces their own issues. "Worse than being reported" exactly what does this mean? Worse for them, worse for the community, worse than what? Are they under quarantine? Or are they just afraid or mad at the change in life style due to limitations being imposed? Sounds so much like what our media is presenting as news.
My nieces family is in China. I am not exactly sure where. Believe what you want.
DMC, I hope you are being sarcastic? When the health care workers get sick along with the patients, it does not matter what type of health care is available. In the UK, even the regular flu season causes huge problems. Add this to the existing problems of lack of personnel and beds and a disaster could be coming. No country has the ability to isolate and treat the volume of patients possible in a pandemic.
gimmethesimplelife
2-28-20, 6:21pm
I wonder what long term consequences might be? China loosing it's position as the world's #2 economy? Manufacturing moving to Mexico from China? More Americans realizing the raw deal they ate getting due to human life not automatically being worth health care? What do you'all think other long term consequences might be? Rob
Cuba controlled the spread of AIDS by locking up everyone who was HIV positive.
gimmethesimplelife
2-28-20, 6:25pm
Cuba controlled the spread of AIDS by locking up everyone who was HIV positive.True. And absolutely horrific. Worse than Reagan and his Let Them Eat Cake attitude. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
2-28-20, 6:30pm
I wonder what long term conseqiences might be? China loosing it's position as the world's #2 economy? Manafacturing moving to Mexico from China? More Americans realuzing the raw deal they ate getting due to human lifw not automatically being worth health care? What do you'all think other long term consequences might be? RobSo annoying that I can't edit on my smartphone. Should be realizing the raw deal, human life, and deal they are getting above. Rob
So annoying that I can't edit on my smartphone. Not sure why you can't. The mobile template has edit capabilities built in, the tools are there.
gimmethesimplelife
2-28-20, 6:47pm
Not sure why you can't. The mobile template has edit capabilities built in, the tools are there.Maybe it's my phone.....an Android LG Stylo 5, free from Metro PCS. When I attempt to edit, my posts get deleted. I am often posting on the fly from work and moving very fast hence the mistakes. Rob
Teacher Terry
2-28-20, 7:24pm
Frugal, it’s been all over the news that some of the Chinese are literally locked in their homes. I wondered what would happen if there was a fire. It doesn’t go well for people there that disobey orders.
iris lilies
2-28-20, 7:28pm
Everyone is on lockdown. even having difficulties going out to replenish food supplies. I did not ask any more since my niece was really upset and freaked out by it all. It was enough to realize this is a MAJOR threat.
Yes it is a major threat.
My nephew is in China teaching English. He is an hour and a half away from Wuhan. He and his girlfriend who live together have been in quarantine for weeks now. They are allowed out a couple times a week. They are continuing some of their teaching via online methods.
gimmethesimplelife
2-28-20, 7:30pm
Frugal, it’s been all over the news that some of the Chinese are literally locked in their homes. I wondered what would happen if there was a fire. It doesn’t go well for people there that disobey orders.I've seen alleged photos online of the metal bars the authorities in China are putting on people's doors to keep them from getting outside of their residences. Very scary. I hope, hope, hope this virus does not become so serious in North America that such is even on the table for consideration here. Let us hope. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
2-28-20, 7:33pm
Yes it is a major threat.
My nephew is in China teaching English. He is an hour and a half away from Wuhan. He and his girlfriend who live together have been in quarantine for weeks now. They are allowed out a couple times a week. They are continuing some of their teaching via online methods.Just curious, IL. How do they access food? They did stock up beforehand, is the government passing out basic supplies and food, or do they get what they can the couple of times a week they are allowed out into the world? Or a little of each of these? I wonder how food access works in this scenario and how food access might change based on the type of government one finds themselves living under during this outbreak (is that even the right word at this point? I'm not the most medically savvy person - I'm not sure what word applies to the coronavirus now). Rob
PS Best wishes to your nephew and his girlfriend to make it to the other side of this healthy.
gimmethesimplelife
2-28-20, 7:37pm
Continuing my stocking up this afternoon. I just left the vet where I picked up specialty cat food for my cat - one thing I will spend money on now that I can afford it. No way is my cat going to suffer in any way during this if I can help it. Next up - bottled water and more TP. Rob
After grocery shopping this morning in the vicinity of two people coughing productively too close for my comfort, I'm considering a pickup service at the store, wherein someone comes out with the groceries you've ordered and loads them into your car for a modest fee. I've been swilling nostrums and washing my hands and gargling and snorting salt water and swabbing myself with antiseptic wipes and I feel like a hypochondriacal idiot.
gimmethesimplelife
2-28-20, 7:47pm
After grocery shopping this morning in the vicinity of two people coughing productively too close for my comfort, I'm considering a pickup service at the store, wherein someone comes out with the groceries you've ordered and loads them into your car for a modest fee. I've been swilling nostrums and washing my hands and gargling and snorting salt water and swabbing myself with antiseptic wipes and I feel like a hypochondriacal idiot.Jane, I don't consider you a hypochonondriacal idiot, not at all. What's going on in China right now is deathly serious, and it's spreading around the world. My take is that you are just trying to establish a little personal power over a very unsettling situation - I totally understand, and my herbal immunity boosters I'm taking? The exact same concept - I don't even know if they are indeed effective against the coronavirus - but it's doing what little I can do, which to me is better than nothing. Rob
Teacher Terry
2-28-20, 9:04pm
Robb, I bet it’s your phone because I can edit from mine. It’s a iPhone 7.
iris lilies
2-28-20, 9:46pm
Just curious, IL. How do they access food? They did stock up beforehand, is the government passing out basic supplies and food, or do they get what they can the couple of times a week they are allowed out into the world? Or a little of each of these? I wonder how food access works in this scenario and how food access might change based on the type of government one finds themselves living under during this outbreak (is that even the right word at this point? I'm not the most medically savvy person - I'm not sure what word applies to the coronavirus now). Rob
PS Best wishes to your nephew and his girlfriend to make it to the other side of this healthy.
They buy groceries when they are allowed out.
Teacher Terry
2-28-20, 10:35pm
My son is teaching English in Vietnam but they have closed all the schools.
SteveinMN
2-28-20, 11:34pm
a very U.S. centric view.
Not that we shouldn't care about anywhere else, but the U.S. is where I live, it's where I will get medical care (if needed), and I cannot control what other countries choose to do about this epidemic. It's hard to avoid a 24-hour news cycle that sensationalizes based on conjecture and little usable information, heads of state that pay no heed to science in addressing the crisis (at any level) and consider the outbreak a personal affront to their paranoia, and countries with a long-practiced disinterest in accurately reporting negative domestic news.
This virus may well be the 21st Century equivalent of the 19th Century's Spanish Flu. But we don't know that yet and I'm just not up for hysteria until that is deemed an appropriate response. I'll just practice some better hygiene habits and prepare for maybe having to remain in place for a couple of weeks. Right now there's not enough information for me where I am now to do much differently. I've got lots of other things to worry about.
gimmethesimplelife
2-28-20, 11:50pm
My son is teaching English in Vietnam but they have closed all the schools.I bet there are more people in this situation than we'd think. Wishing your sln the best with this situation. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
2-28-20, 11:55pm
I bet there are more people in this situation than we'd think. Wishing your sln the best with this situation. Rob
Should be son, sorry for the typo.
Teacher Terry
2-29-20, 12:13am
I wish he would come home but at 40 he loves it and I am not telling him what to do.
Right now, this is not Ebola. This is not the 1918 Spanish flu which was almost worse than Ebola. So far the professionals estimate that 80% get a mild case, 18% a serious case and 2% can die. The elderly (over 80) and those with an underlying condition are most of the ones dying. Remember that only those with symptoms from specific areas or with specific situations are being tested. So the thousands that had it and got over it are not even counted and will increase the 80% having mild cases. And it has been found that the test is not perfect.
Keep in mind the death rate will fluctuate depending on the availability of medical facilities to treat the critical cases. I think that is why Iran, in particular, has a high death rate. Well that plus the lockdown on the media reporting and social factors.
I am not concerned about myself but am about my elderly parents. They bought a 50 pound bag of potatoes but other than that are taking it in stride. But both of them have made peace with their God and everyone on earth, appreciate that they got beyond fourscore and ten, and while they treasure each day (especially my mom who almost died twice) are ready to go if corona or anything else takes them.
happystuff
2-29-20, 10:06am
I am not concerned about myself but am about my elderly parents. They bought a 50 pound bag of potatoes but other than that are taking it in stride. But both of them have made peace with their God and everyone on earth, appreciate that they got beyond fourscore and ten, and while they treasure each day (especially my mom who almost died twice) are ready to go if corona or anything else takes them.
I love this! While I haven't bought a 50 pound bag of potatoes, I am trying to make my peace with everyone and everything. And, while treasuring each day is sometimes hard to do, again, I'm trying. I have seen how quickly death can come and I'm not counting on having "time" to prepare myself when it finally does come. Thanks for the reminder.
I’m like your parents I guess! We have a month or more of meds on hand, and could get by for a few weeks on food if needed. But my overall take is that we all die sometime and I’m not gonna freak out about this. I’ll just make prudent choices about travel and avoid crowds and wash my hands. Why panic? It does no good.
sweetana3
2-29-20, 10:27am
Tammy, that is exactly what we are doing.
Teacher Terry
2-29-20, 12:30pm
I am concerned but not panicking because it’s outside my circle of control. However, China lied about the death rate and it wouldn’t surprise me if we followed suit.
One of the endless parade of horrors emerging lately is that Mike Pence, notorious science denier, is in charge of our response to this medical emergency.
Also, in a country with the highest medical costs on the planet, we couldn't see our way clear to have even a tiny percentage of the respirators on hand that will be necessary should this hit pandemic status.
gimmethesimplelife
2-29-20, 2:11pm
I wonder? Could one of the consequences of coronavirus be a more equitable society, should a major reset take place? I believe it's possible, especially given the amount if anger regarding and the continual realization of more and more Americans regarding American inequality. We'll see.....Rob
gimmethesimplelife
2-29-20, 2:11pm
I wonder? Could one of the consequences of coronavirus be a more equitable society, should a major reset take place? I believe it's possible, especially given the amount if anger regarding and the continual realization of more and more Americans regarding American inequality. We'll see.....RobShould be the amount of anger above.
flowerseverywhere
2-29-20, 2:22pm
Medcram is excellent for logical information. Thank you.
Living less than than an hour from Walt Disney World, Orlando airport and lots of old people and tourists, I feel it prudent to be prepared. We have a 24 hour Walmart a few miles away. I went this morning at 5:30 when it was empty and filled in the gaps I needed to stock up. I got some fruit juices, soups and s on to supplement my well stocked fridge and freezer. I’m avoiding crowds but not being too crazy. Had a lovely walk in the sunshine and 70’s temps today. We have a pile of books and lots of hobby stuff like sewing and woodworking too. No sense in being reckless when testing is very sporadic and from what I understand not too reliable being in the higher risk group. .
gimmethesimplelife
2-29-20, 2:26pm
Medcram is excellent for logical information. Thank you.
Living less than than an hour from Walt Disney World, Orlando airport and lots of old people and tourists, I feel it prudent to be prepared. We have a 24 hour Walmart a few miles away. I went this morning at 5:30 when it was empty and filled in the gaps I needed to stock up. I got some fruit juices, soups and s on to supplement my well stocked fridge and freezer. I’m avoiding crowds but not being too crazy. Had a lovely walk in the sunshine and 70’s temps today. We have a pile of books and lots of hobby stuff like sewing and woodworking too. No sense in being reckless when testing is very sporadic and from what I understand not too reliable.YES! Part of any prepping as I see it anyway is adding domething to fill up time should we be sequestered. Reading material, dvds of favorite movies/programs, some kind if indoor crafts/hobbies, that kind of thing. Also pet food!!! So glad I remembered that - no way is my cat suffering if I can help it. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
2-29-20, 2:27pm
YES! Part of any prepping as I see it anyway is adding domething to fill up time should we be sequestered. Reading material, dvds of favorite movies/programs, some kind if indoor crafts/hobbies, that kind of thing. Also pet food!!! So glad I remembered that - no way is my cat suffering if I can help it. RobCorrections - adding something to fill up time and some kind of indoor crafts/hobbies above. Rob
The nice thing about cats and dogs is that they can eat what you eat, if you choose wisely--at least for the duration.
dado potato
2-29-20, 6:01pm
From what I have read, there now are 3 "possible instances of community spread" in OR, WA, and northern CA. Americans can expect that their customary social interactions will be subject to change.
Speaking of change, is there an effective way to sanitize money? I suppose coins could have a bath in a jar of chlorine bleach, and paper money might survive a certain time in a microwave.
On "Real Time", Bill Maher's show, last night the guests were bowing (Japanese style) rather than shaking hands or hugging.
If you are going to panic, try to be the first one to panic. (wink)
I understand that testing kits are in short supply. So I suspect that the 69 confirmed cases in the USA understates the number of cases.
In this case "We're number one!" is not a good thing. :help:
(Swathing myself in antiseptic wipes...)
Hmmm. The death of hugging might be the silver lining here.
I listened to Donald's press conference today where he basically said the risk is very low for healthy young people, so stay calm. I guess he's not concerned about older people with underlying health conditions.
Dado, I did a quick search after withdrawing a small emergency supply of cash from the bank. They say the virus can only survive a few hours on hard surfaces, although it didn't seem like a hundred percent for sure. Obviously doesn't apply if an infected person hands you some cash and then you rub your eyes or something. Otherwise, I suspect any common disinfectant, like soap and water, will kill it. You could always launder your money, so to speak.
Many scientific sites are saying that 9 days might be closer to how long the virus can live on surfaces. But they do not know for sure. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/29/asia-pacific/science-health-asia-pacific/how-long-coronavirus-surface/#.XlryUahKhPY
Went to the local ACE hardware store today to buy a mask for use while spray painting furniture. Was told that that every type of mask they normally carry from flimsy dust masks to heavy duty ones sold out within hours. I wonder if people are scooping up to resell:(
Many scientific sites are saying that 9 days might be closer to how long the virus can live on surfaces. But they do not know for sure. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/29/asia-pacific/science-health-asia-pacific/how-long-coronavirus-surface/#.XlryUahKhPY
For the record I was going by statements from the Harvard School of Medicine and the WHO, but like I said, there's some uncertainty. Your reference could also carry some decision making weight.
ETA, Speaking of which, I was thinking of reducing my cash transactions as a small measure that might help. For what ever a person would like to believe, it was mentioned that everyone in the world touches the credit card machines, and that cash was less of a risk. Made sense to me although a small item.
flowerseverywhere
2-29-20, 11:19pm
A relative flew back from Taipei, Taiwan through Tokyo to San Diego. We were wondering if he would be quarantined or subject to medical exam but he just waited in line at custom and immigration, got his passport reviewed and was waved through.
Personally I was shocked.
I guess by now so many countries have confirmed cases, most likely wildly underreported that it makes little difference.
The US has only stopped travel from China. One article is here: https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/31/21117403/trump-coronavirus-ban-travel-non-us-citizens-china
Taiwan and Japan were not included.
The US has only stopped travel from China..
Iran also.
There's an outbreak in an adult care facility near me. I hope we have enough test kits...
gimmethesimplelife
3-1-20, 10:42am
There's an outbreak in an adult care facility near me. I hope we have enough test kits...Jeepers Jane, that's right, you live in Washington State. Be careful as you can! Rob
Jeepers Jane, that's right, you live in Washington State. Be careful as you can! Rob
Fortunately, I'm a pro at sequestering at home...
We have four confirmed cases of it in my county with at least one of the infections from unknown origin. So yesterday I finally stocked up on easy to stores staples that keep well; beans, rice, flour, masa, potatoes, onions, garlic, etc. I don't have much freezer space so got things that compact well and can go far when cooked; Italian sausage, ground beef, boneless pork shoulder. And dry salame. DH loaded up on mangoes, apples, cabbage and sunflower seeds. I guess they keep well? :|(
I did a Walmart run this morning. Hadn’t shopped in several weeks so it was needed anyway. Did get extra toilet paper, toiletries, and other household itDMs. Tuna, PB, bread for the freezer. Already had pasta and frozen veggies.
For the record I was going by statements from the Harvard School of Medicine and the WHO, but like I said, there's some uncertainty. Your reference could also carry some decision making weight.
ETA, Speaking of which, I was thinking of reducing my cash transactions as a small measure that might help. For what ever a person would like to believe, it was mentioned that everyone in the world touches the credit card machines, and that cash was less of a risk. Made sense to me although a small item.
I use Apple Pay whenever possible. Just put my phone close to terminal and voila!
Also, many credit and debit cards are contactless these days.
I got 40+ cans of soup on sale for $1, toiletry items, and more gallons of water today. There is plenty of merchandise in the supermarket.
I got 40+ cans of soup on sale for $1, toiletry items, and more gallons of water today. There is plenty of merchandise in the supermarket.
The liquid hand soap and hand sanitizer were pretty much decimated at Walmart, along with sanitizing wipes. There was plenty of bar soap. I got a ton of soup myself.
I didn’t check the rubbing alcohol stock or bleach. I already have both at home.
And while I don’t usually see eye to eye with Rob on anything, I do agree with making sure you have stuff to keep you occupied if you’re stuck at home.
I have plenty to read, including diving class texts. I enjoy writing letters and notes to people, so there’s that as well. Just have to make sure I have enough pens.
Teacher Terry
3-1-20, 1:17pm
The class I teach opens tomorrow and since it’s new to me will consume a lot of time. Plus we have books, games, internet and tv.
I have tons of food in the freezer, but we're up S**t creek if the power goes. We'll have a feast over a couple of days though. haha .....although we'll have to cook everything in the fireplace. I suppose a gas outdoor grill would be a good purchase.
I have refilled my meds. We're also considering a special hand pump to install over our well. I bought a lot of dried beans, nuts, peanut butter, etc.
Don't forget to disinfect your cell phones on a regular basis. And wash your hands often and if you're out, don't touch your face.. There's so much more to think about........
If this gets really bad.......I think most of us are in for a real shock. :(
ApatheticNoMore
3-1-20, 1:43pm
Exactly what is the real life scenario people see stocking up as useful for? I'm really curious. Because I can't see how any of it would do me that much good, given the reality of my circumstances.
- If it's just wanting to avoid the supermarket, that might avoid some germs of course, but germs are all around elsewhere for many of us (I can't avoid germs at the office for instance and if people at the office still go to the supermarket ... I'm two degrees of separation). So at best it's reduction of risk to a degree. And then should I be stocking up on gas so as not to have to touch the gas pump etc.?
- If it's some kind of government order of mass quarantines of healthy people I don't see it happening ever, in South Korea yes, in the U.S. nope. They'll let us die and make us go to work I think (immune system don't fail me now!). If I'm wrong hey, but that's how I believe it would play out, maybe especially with Trump.
- If it's someone wanting to stay in because they have corona virus or think they might then THANK YOU, thank you for not infecting others to the degree you can, thank you, thank you. This is the proper social action to take (but maybe one should get medical help, and be quarantined in a hospital at that point if there is space and then the hospital will feed you). Because yea I could be "quarantined" in my apartment, but I still might infect the rest of the apartment building. Oh I might not even laundry or anything to avoid spreading germs to the laundry room etc., I can use the bathtub I guess, but still.
If the real life scenario is "an earthquake" or something, oh very well and good to have supplies, but then we are not talking corona virus anymore.
Teacher Terry
3-1-20, 1:51pm
If you have to work you can’t self quarantine. We only grocery shop once a month normally so that’s the same and we always fill our medications for 3 months because it’s cheaper. A 11lb bag of dog food lasts my 2 small dogs 3 months so really business as usual.
iris lilies
3-1-20, 1:57pm
I listened to Donald's press conference today where he basically said the risk is very low for healthy young people, so stay calm. I guess he's not concerned about older people with underlying health conditions...
What a silly thing to say.
No reasonable people will blame The Donald for coronavirus.
However—Many reasonable people will blame him for every tiny step he takes to address (or not address) every tiny issue associated with coronavirus, and the above statement a good example.
The guy in the White House is a lightning rod for this stuff, as he should be because that’s his role. Exaggerating everything about coronavirus does no one any good tho.
ANM in my case it is if I am forcibly quarantined.
[QUOTE=iris lilies;345942]What a silly thing to say.
No reasonable people will blame The Donald for coronavirus.
However—Many reasonable people will blame him for every tiny step he takes to address (or not address) every tiny issue associated with coronavirus, and the above statement a good example.
The guy in the White House is a lightning rod for this stuff, as he should be because that’s his role. Exaggerating everything about coronavirus does no one any good tho.[/QUO
The point was
Jesus H. NOBODY in their right mind blames trump for the virus. His stupid remarks are what sets people off.... as noted above. Quit watching FOX news.
Trump has decimated the CDC and other agencies we depend on to have our best interests in mind:
"It is also true that in 2018 the Trump administration fired key officials connected to the U.S. pandemic response, and they were not replaced.
Also in 2018, news reports circulated about an 80% reduction in the CDC’s program that worked in various countries to fight epidemics. That was the result of the anticipated depletion of previously allotted funding. “Countries where the CDC is planning to scale back include some of the world’s hot spots for emerging infectious disease, such as China, Pakistan, Haiti, Rwanda and Congo,” the Washington Post reported in 2018.
The fact that epidemic prevention-efforts were scaled back in China gained new significance in February 2020 as coronavirus spread globally after it was first detected in Wuhan, China, in late 2019." (from Snopes.com)
He has tried repeatedly to cut the CDC budget, stopped only by Congress, which controls the funds.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-cut-cdc-budget/
With so many of these epidemics I think if only people ate a plant based diet instead of keeping animals confined in cruel, close quarters how much safer we would be. India is densely populated like China and even warmer, and has primitive sanitation systems in many places, yet isn't the virus breeding grounds because many of its people are vegetarians.
Teacher Terry
3-1-20, 2:58pm
My son was in India on vacation and got severe diarrhea so many times he cut his 2 month trip there short. They aren’t a model for anything. The stories he told about conditions:((
dado potato
3-1-20, 3:00pm
Exactly what is the real life scenario people see stocking up as useful for? I'm really curious.
e.
If the maps of the confirmed cases show red dots within a 100 mile radius of me, I believe I would be glad not to need to go shopping for food, otc medications, & household supplies. (If the threat of coronavirus passes, without a single case existing within 100 miles, all the consumables will gradually be used up … basically I would have bought some things sooner than I normally would have). In general I would want to be able to hunker down and avoid contact with other people until those red dots representing "existing" cases are replaced with dots representing "recovered". In my thinking, all recovered within a 100 mile radius would be all clear, and I would return to normal interactions.
Shopping is just one activity to avoid when hunkering down. Depending on the person, there might also be going in to work, classes, audience events, religious services, the coin-operated laundromat, etc.
Another scenario involves a public health (government) initiated "voluntary quarantine"... From what I read, public health officials at the county level would be notified by the CDC of the name/address of persons that have possibly been exposed to the virus (such as by having recently travelled where there was an outbreak, or having contact with someone who is a confirmed case). Then the public health official looks the person up and goes over the protocol for, say, 14 days of "self-isolation". I have not seen the Frequently Asked Questions about "self isolation", so I don't know whether there is any restriction on going shopping. My hunch is the CDC wants people who have been exposed to the virus to be governed by the Fats Waller lyrics in Ain't Misbehavin. In this scenario a stash of food and household supplies would be desirable. Not to mention "a radio"! <wink>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSNPpssruFY
.
My son was in India on vacation and got severe diarrhea so many times he cut his 2 month trip there short. They aren’t a model for anything. The stories he told about conditions:((
The Vegetarian regions in India have the world's highest incidence of type 2 diabetes, I read this morning.
All those carbohydrates (but delicious, I bet. Love Indian food.)
I'm stocking up so I can easily stay home for days and/or weeks. I can visit the PO on weekends to get my mail, and otherwise stay out of public places. Clearly that only works well for people who don't have to go out to work. But stocking up can minimize public exposure for everyone.
I don't doubt that Indians suffer from old illnesses like cholera, but they are not the hotbed for new viruses that cross species. That is China and also parts of Africa where bush meat is eaten.
gimmethesimplelife
3-1-20, 3:12pm
What a silly thing to say.
No reasonable people will blame The Donald for coronavirus.
However—Many reasonable people will blame him for every tiny step he takes to address (or not address) every tiny issue associated with coronavirus, and the above statement a good example.
The guy in the White House is a lightning rod for this stuff, as he should be because that’s his role. Exaggerating everything about coronavirus does no one any good tho.With all due respect IL, the 85006 in me is rising to the surface. I'd agree with you that it's out there to blame Donald Trump per se for the coronavirus - what I would hold him accountable for is inadequate response to the virus and for decimating the CDC. This could come back to haunt him as Election 2020 keeps on keeping on. Rob
Being ready for quarantine is not a bad thing. I got stuff I will use. All of it. So I’ve got 40 rolls of tp. I’ll just go a few months without buying any.
What a silly thing to say.
No reasonable people will blame The Donald for coronavirus.
However—Many reasonable people will blame him for every tiny step he takes to address (or not address) every tiny issue associated with coronavirus, and the above statement a good example.
The guy in the White House is a lightning rod for this stuff, as he should be because that’s his role. Exaggerating everything about coronavirus does no one any good tho.
Perhaps I was in error. I will defer to Factcheck from his press conference rather than offer opinion or exaggeration. I understand he did not cause the virus, but he does have an obligation to be truthful.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/02/factchecking-trumps-coronavirus-press-conference/
With so many of these epidemics I think if only people ate a plant based diet instead of keeping animals confined in cruel, close quarters how much safer we would be. India is densely populated like China and even warmer, and has primitive sanitation systems in many places, yet isn't the virus breeding grounds because many of its people are vegetarians.
You obviously have not been to India. See people all over with various illnesses.... quite frightening actually.
With all due respect IL, the 85006 in me is rising to the surface. I'd agree with you that it's out there to blame Donald Trump per se for the coronavirus - what I would hold him accountable for is inadequate response to the virus and for decimating the CDC. This could come back to haunt him as Election 2020 keeps on keeping on. RobOK, I'll bite. At this point, what part of the US response to the coronavirus is inadequate?
Being ready for quarantine is not a bad thing. I got stuff I will use. All of it. So I’ve got 40 rolls of tp. I’ll just go a few months without buying any.
This was my big preparedness item as well, I bought another 3 months of TP, as well as making sure I had plenty of dish and laundry detergent on-hand. And chili sauce. You know- the pure essentials.
OK, I'll bite. At this point, what part of the US response to the coronavirus is inadequate?
Well, the part where behind-the-scenes information flow from the CDC to state and regional agencies was interfered with by Fearless Leader, taking a decently-working system we developed during the Ebola event and breaking it.
As I think I mentioned up-thread, as someone who does this hands-on, things were working pretty decently until just the other day.
OK, I'll bite. At this point, what part of the US response to the coronavirus is inadequate?
For one thing, test kits were slow to be issued and then determined to be defective. New York state still doesn't consider them reliable.
This was my big preparedness item as well, I bought another 3 months of TP, as well as making sure I had plenty of dish and laundry detergent on-hand. And chili sauce. You know- the pure essentials.
I generally don't have disinfectant on hand, and I was low on isopropyl alcohol. Now my first aid supply is topped up.
I could still use some stuff (hey--is that all the garlic I have?), so will probably make a couple more trips before I'm ready to lock myself away.
You obviously have not been to India. See people all over with various illnesses.... quite frightening actually.
HIV - Africa - eating monkey
Ebola - Africa - eating bush meat
1918 flu - pig farms brought this to the US
Swine flu - from Mexico
SARS, Hong Kong flu, Coronavirus - Chinese meat markets
Frugal-one, what are comparable viral pandemics that originated in India?
From the World Health Organization:
"Viruses that have caused past pandemics typically originated from animal influenza viruses."
https://www.who.int/csr/disease/swineflu/frequently_asked_questions/pandemic/en/
I was wondering........has the business at chinese restaurants gone down? We used to go to a local one occasionally, but have been going elsewhere. Maybe it's ignorant of us, but most of the chinese that work there don't speak English (although their food is great!), but how can we know who has traveled where in the recent past? And it appears that there can even be carriers of the virus. I feel bad, 'cause the people in this local restaurant are really hard workers. And the price is right.
What would you do??
Well, we just lost a whole fire station out-of-service here in WA because of it.
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/two-dozen-emergency-workers-quarantined-possible-coronavirus/JJD6ZERIZBG2FEF5HDZIULIIJM/?fbclid=IwAR3tFSlyE_GC4L9bCM6UmdsCRJgfDEY5bZe6x8ud v2bz0n2E8xdop8AlllM
I was wondering........has the business at chinese restaurants gone down?
Yes, fearful people often lapse into bigoted behaviour.
The Chinese restaurants as well as the Asian markets are struggling. When talking with a friend last week they were considering going to being open weekends only. She also admitted that it is mostly the Asian community not eating or shopping at Asian businesses. She is Vietnamese and her husband is Chinese. Her parents own a Chinese restaurant and her brother owns a Sushi shop.
Teacher Terry
3-1-20, 6:42pm
We went to PF Chang’s for lunch Saturday and not many customers but that’s not even real Chinese food and the workers aren’t Chinese. Maybe just a coincidence but it seemed odd.
flowerseverywhere
3-1-20, 7:49pm
Well, we just lost a whole fire station out-of-service here in WA because of it.
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/two-dozen-emergency-workers-quarantined-possible-coronavirus/JJD6ZERIZBG2FEF5HDZIULIIJM/?fbclid=IwAR3tFSlyE_GC4L9bCM6UmdsCRJgfDEY5bZe6x8ud v2bz0n2E8xdop8AlllM
these type of things can really be disruptive. Each firefighter has family and other contacts they may have exposed. The economy will continue to be rattled as more flights are cancelled, people don’t take cruises or go to restaurants. The Louvre even shut down.
Social distancing, good handwashing are our best defenses. Be alert and aware everyone.
these type of things can really be disruptive. Each firefighter has family and other contacts they may have exposed.
Just a handful of cases popping up can shut down a considerable portion of hospitals/emergency rooms/fire stations/clinics/dr's-offices in the state, alas. When we did the Ebola thing, the key was managing the emerging cases so nobody just randomly walked into a critical facility and caused it to have to shut down for decontamination or quarantine.
This of why I am so happy that Pence is telling us how to do things now, instead of us using the previous tested playbook.
I am unlikely to use my Ebola suit and do the patient monitoring/transport for this new threat, because, well, the system seems to be broken now. It was working OK until quite recently. #MAGA
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