View Full Version : Conavirus......
iris lilies
12-6-21, 1:51pm
We do already mandate vaccines you know - for public school, and the military, and a lot of other careers - with varied options for exemptions. In some case none - it’s if you want this job, you take this shot.
No way was my republican state going to let my unchurched self announce that I had a sincerely held religious belief that my kids should not be vaccinated and send them to public school. I know, because they never asked for my oldest child’s records. And when they realized they didn’t have them, they told me I had to come get them and not bring them back without vaccination records. I negotiated. I gave them dates over the phone and they gave me four days to get official records.
Even kids who have religious or medical exemptions have to stay home if there is an outbreak.
So fine - your kid is an exception. Keep them home. You are an exception, welcome to the wonderful world of telecommuting, video streamed entertainment, online shopping, and curbside pick up.
There has been no forced gubmnt vaccine requirement for simply being a citizen here.
If you want to partake of certain activities in certain situations, sure, a vaccine of some kind may be required for you.
I can’t imagine that the Supreme Court would back up our President in holding down citizens and injecting foreign substances into their bodies even if he has determined, in his infinite wisdom, that it is for their own good. I am grateful our constitution prevents such egregious overstep of our governmrnt.
Chicken lady
12-6-21, 2:30pm
I seem to have missed the part where the government proposed stripping citizenship from the unvaccinated - the “vaccine mandate” seems to be for people who wish to frequent areas used by large numbers of the public (such as restaurants, stores, entertainment venues, or places of employment with many employees - because the alternative is to penalize the people who are trying to avoid illness in a way that improves public health) or engage in certain health sensitive jobs (I had to have a DPT to work in daycare 30 years ago.)
I think we simply disagree over “certain activities in certain situations.”
I imagine one could turn one’s small business into “members only” (like Sam’s club or Costco do) and set any requirements one likes for membership that don’t violate the ACDA or ACA guidelines - but again, those mandates already exist!
ApatheticNoMore
12-6-21, 3:01pm
I think there is basically an agreement that there is no requirement of vaccination for citizenship.
To work well maybe. And you may say you need work for money to live. Well yes. But so does an immuno-compromised person forced to go to a workplace (either because the nature of the job requires it and that's how it is, or if it's just office work because their employer is a bit of a jerk and that's kind of inexcusable, but either way.). And if vaccination reduces transmission some (and it does) ...
iris lilies
12-6-21, 3:13pm
I seem to have missed the part where the government proposed stripping citizenship from the unvaccinated - the “vaccine mandate” seems to be for people who wish to frequent areas used by large numbers of the public (such as restaurants, stores, entertainment venues, or places of employment with many employees - because the alternative is to penalize the people who are trying to avoid illness in a way that improves public health) or engage in certain health sensitive jobs (I had to have a DPT to work in daycare 30 years ago.)
I think we simply disagree over “certain activities in certain situations.”
I imagine one could turn one’s small business into “members only” (like Sam’s club or Costco do) and set any requirements one likes for membership that don’t violate the ACDA or ACA guidelines - but again, those mandates already exist!
I don’t know, has the whole menu of vaccine mandates by the White House been published? The U.S.Senate is as of today pushing back against the vaccine mandate for private businesses, just one mandate.
Do you know thst we have here at least one Advocate of forced vaccines upon citizens? Rob is quivering with admiration at his motherland’s threat to do just that.
You misunderstand what I said. I used the term “citizen” to mean persons dwelling in these United states. There should be no requirement allowing for the government at any level to hold down anyone whether they are citizen or not, and inject a foreign body into their person.
I am open to discussion of whether and where unvaccinated people may go, and when, and which body should be able to dictate thst.
Do you know thst we have here at least one Advocate of forced vaccines upon citizens? Rob is quivering with admiration at his motherland’s threat to do just that.
I think if someone tried to *force* me to receive a medical procedure simply to exist, I'd go all A. Solzhenitsyn on them and theirs.
I think if someone tried to *force* me to receive a medical procedure simply to exist, I'd go all A. Solzhenitsyn on them and theirs.
You’d go to Siberia?
Education...I would be real careful with that. Plays a part, maybe
Obviously, it's a stereotype but I do think Republican leaders are very glad they have a huge following among conspiracy theorists.
Obviously, it's a stereotype but I do think Republican leaders are very glad they have a huge following among conspiracy theorists.
Probably due to colluding with the Russians, as the Steele Dossier clearly showed.
You’d go to Siberia?
Well, as he pointed out:
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?… The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If…if…We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
ApatheticNoMore
12-6-21, 4:42pm
I've never been much into conspiracy theories, but conspiracy theories these days seem to have gone downhill, they have become way more inane and boring.
I went into a typical larger non-retail outlet type of private business a couple of days ago and they had official government looking signs on doors saying, proof of vaccination requried. I only had a paper copy which they photo copied for what they said were possible audits. My few minutes looking into current laws didn't turn up much and it wasn't a big issue for me. The person I met with has Parkinsons and I wondered if it was a special precaution.
Forced vaccinations can take several forms and it seems like exclusion is one of them.
frugal-one
12-6-21, 4:53pm
Sort of agree, as I do love the easy identification provided by the red MAGA hats, shirts, etc.
Yea, shows who to avoid. trump lost… get over it.
frugal-one
12-6-21, 4:56pm
There has been no forced gubmnt vaccine requirement for simply being a citizen here.
If you want to partake of certain activities in certain situations, sure, a vaccine of some kind may be required for you.
I can’t imagine that the Supreme Court would back up our President in holding down citizens and injecting foreign substances into their bodies even if he has determined, in his infinite wisdom, that it is for their own good. I am grateful our constitution prevents such egregious overstep of our governmrnt.
You should have made that case when seat belts were mandated. The only people harmed then are/were those not wearing a seatbelt. Not getting vaccinated infiltrates/violates the rights of everyone because it does not just involve them.
iris lilies
12-6-21, 5:00pm
You should have made that case when seat belts were mandated. The only people harmed then are/were those not wearing a seatbelt. Not getting vaccinated infiltrates/violates the rights of everyone because it does not just involve them.
Seat belt laws are not edicts issued from the White House. And therefore, they vary across states. States rights, ya know.
You should have made that case when seat belts were mandated. The only people harmed then are/were those not wearing a seatbelt.
As someone who with some frequency has to deal with the gore and horror of auto crashes where people didn't wear seatbelts, I can testify that it does harm the first responders as well. And uses a fair bit of taxpayer resources - fire/ems, helicopters, regional trauma centers, that sort of thing.
It is also the case that if you are wearing a seatbelt, you can better retain control of your vehicle during vigorous maneuvering, which may allow you a chance to avoid an accident in the first place.
In my state, you can drive without a seatbelt all you want, as long as you don't do it on the public roads...
Not getting vaccinated infiltrates/violates the rights of everyone because it does not just involve them.
Not getting vaccinated hurts:
1. One's self
2. Others who chose not to get vaccinated
3. People in such weak health, such as Colin Powell, that any number of viruses could have done them in
This is an insufficient basis to mandate vaccinations.
An anti-vaxxer at one of our sites now has covid. In the past he was talked into getting a flu shot for his child who had a bad reaction to it and landed up hospitalized. There are valid reasons why some people distrust vaccines.
iris lilies
12-6-21, 7:30pm
Yea, shows who to avoid. trump lost… get over it.
Praise the Lord Jesus, we agree on something.
jp1? Ya listening?
iris lilies
12-6-21, 7:34pm
As someone who with some frequency has to deal with the gore and horror of auto crashes where people didn't wear seatbelts, I can testify that it does harm the first responders as well. And uses a fair bit of taxpayer resources - fire/ems, helicopters, regional trauma centers, that sort of thing.
It is also the case that if you are wearing a seatbelt, you can better retain control of your vehicle during vigorous maneuvering, which may allow you a chance to avoid an accident in the first place.
In my state, you can drive without a seatbelt all you want, as long as you don't do it on the public roads...
For every practical real life situation you can come up with to limit someone’s rights, I can come up with even more!
In our democratic society there will always be a push-pull Between individual rights and society societal responsibilities. I think that’s fine, there’s no one right answer, but people had better be continuing to discuss it in the public Square or else we will all become little Orwellian automans subsumed in the will of Big Brother
Forced vaccinations can take several forms and it seems like exclusion is one of them.I've always felt a little excluded because of some of my choices in life, do you think we could get the government to mandate everyone enjoy cheap cigars, Mountain Dew and Chili Cheese Fritos to help me feel a little less alone and enhance my self esteem?
happystuff
12-6-21, 8:47pm
Yea, shows who to avoid. trump lost… get over it.
Wow. That reads unnecessarily nasty. I was simply responding with an example from the other side and it was meant more as a joke. Sorry you didn't get that.
I've always felt a little excluded because of some of my choices in life, do you think we could get the government to mandate everyone enjoy cheap cigars, Mountain Dew and Chili Cheese Fritos to help me feel a little less alone and enhance my self esteem?
Boy, I sort of doubt it Alan. But if it might ease the exclusion issue, you're OK in my book. I have my own personal choices that make me feel excluded, so I suspect we're on a similar boat in different seas.
Chili cheese fries at Chubbies Burger Drive In is on my bucket list, but I'm thinking of it as a one time event.
boss mare
12-6-21, 10:21pm
As someone who with some frequency has to deal with the gore and horror of auto crashes where people didn't wear seatbelts, I can testify that it does harm the first responders as well. And uses a fair bit of taxpayer resources - fire/ems, helicopters, regional trauma centers, that sort of thing.
It is also the case that if you are wearing a seatbelt, you can better retain control of your vehicle during vigorous maneuvering, which may allow you a chance to avoid an accident in the first place.
In my state, you can drive without a seatbelt all you want, as long as you don't do it on the public roads...
I was a non seat belt person from 1977 to 2001. My husband and I second date was “ ride along” . A call came in as a single car accident with two people ejected and one entrapment. It was on a road that I drove on a lot on my way to a popular horse show venue. It was shocking . I had never4108 seen a dead person, much less two and obliviously had never seen people being picked up in pieces and put into a body bag
The housing development was not there at the time , they had hit head on into a huge stand of fir trees. After that I never drove without my seat belt.
frugal-one
12-7-21, 10:48am
As someone who with some frequency has to deal with the gore and horror of auto crashes where people didn't wear seatbelts, I can testify that it does harm the first responders as well. And uses a fair bit of taxpayer resources - fire/ems, helicopters, regional trauma centers, that sort of thing.
It is also the case that if you are wearing a seatbelt, you can better retain control of your vehicle during vigorous maneuvering, which may allow you a chance to avoid an accident in the first place.
In my state, you can drive without a seatbelt all you want, ai as you don't do it on the public roads...
if you are not driving on public roads you are not mainstream…. totally different situation. Again, you missed the point though. You are the only one affected in this situation (perhaps first responders as well?). Not being vaccinated affects all of society.
frugal-one
12-7-21, 10:54am
I've always felt a little excluded because of some of my choices in life, do you think we could get the government to mandate everyone enjoy cheap cigars, Mountain Dew and Chili Cheese Fritos to help me feel a little less alone and enhance my self esteem?
Hey those choices affect only you… not the case with vaccinations.
frugal-one
12-7-21, 10:55am
As someone who with some frequency has to deal with the gore and horror of auto crashes where people didn't wear seatbelts, I can testify that it does harm the first responders as well. And uses a fair bit of taxpayer resources - fire/ems, helicopters, regional trauma centers, that sort of thing.
It is also the case that if you are wearing a seatbelt, you can better retain control of your vehicle during vigorous maneuvering, which may allow you a chance to avoid an accident in the first place.
In my state, you can drive without a seatbelt all you want, ai as you don't do it on the public roads...
if you are not driving on public roads you are not mainstream…. totally different situation. Again, you missed the point though. You are the only one affected in this situation. Not being vaccinated affects all of society.
Hey those choices affect only you… not the case with vaccinations.That post was made in jest, maybe I'll label the next one properly to avoid confusion. :moon:
That post was made in jest, maybe I'll label the next one properly to avoid confusion. :moon:
Maybe humor and not truth is the first casualty of culture war.
frugal-one
12-7-21, 4:55pm
That post was made in jest, maybe I'll label the next one properly to avoid confusion. :moon:
What is it called when someone says they were only kidding but actually not?
if you are not driving on public roads you are not mainstream…. totally different situation. Again, you missed the point though. You are the only one affected in this situation. Not being vaccinated affects all of society.
You said "The only people harmed then are/were those not wearing a seatbelt." I pointed out that first responders are. And further added that seatbelts improve your ability to avoid accidents as well. So I was responding to your mistaken assertion. On point.
Then I pointed out that one could drive in this state on private roads and avoid this issue.
I was not arguing for or against vaccines, only addressing your poor analogy.
frugal-one
12-7-21, 5:01pm
You said "The only people harmed then are/were those not wearing a seatbelt." I pointed out that first responders are. And further added that seatbelts improve your ability to avoid accidents as well. So I was responding to your mistaken assertion. On point.
Then I pointed out that one could drive in this state on private roads and avoid this issue.
I was not arguing for or against vaccines, only addressing your poor analogy.
You got the drift so why knitpick? Redundant..
You got the drift so why knitpick? Redundant..
Because people who think "this only affects me" often overlook the large impact their actions have on others who they clearly aren't considering. Looking through the woods for missing body parts after a crash sorta makes me sensitive about seatbelts. And don't get me started on suicides...
Enjoy.
What is it called when someone says they were only kidding but actually not?
I don't know, what would you call it if, despite contrary evidence, you suspected someone of doing that?
ToomuchStuff
12-7-21, 5:25pm
Maybe humor and not truth is the first casualty of culture war.
I would think a bunch of comedians would agree. (discussions about playing at colleges, political correctness, cancel culture, etc).
As for seat belts, well they are not 100% effective. When I was a kid, I could have got anything I wanted, alcohol or drug related. (older friends) A couple who found that out, wanted me to get them some, but didn't want to agree to our terms (you had to do them around us, so people made sure you sobered up, before driving, etc). They found their supplies elsewhere, and when driving impaired, wrecked. Her seatbelt broke and she went through the windshield and died. He was stopped by the steering wheel and charged with his girlfriends death. That was the start of what would eventually make me a non drinker.
ToomuchStuff
12-7-21, 5:29pm
Because people who think "this only affects me" often overlook the large impact their actions have on others who they clearly aren't considering. Looking through the woods for missing body parts after a crash sorta makes me sensitive about seatbelts. And don't get me started on suicides...
Enjoy.
And on a positive note, you can't tell how that will have an affect on others lives (their families, those left behind, etc).
My earliest memory, was my happy place for years. I was two and it was a historic event, but I was in my 20's, when it was told to me about two of the three people that died, for it to happen.
frugal-one
12-7-21, 6:32pm
Because people who think "this only affects me" often overlook the large impact their actions have on others who they clearly aren't considering. Looking through the woods for missing body parts after a crash sorta makes me sensitive about seatbelts. And don't get me started on suicides...
Enjoy.
Enjoy what?
Obviously you agree with my sentiments so why continue?
frugal-one
12-7-21, 6:33pm
I don't know, what would you call it if, despite contrary evidence, you suspected someone of doing that?
What contrary evidence?
What contrary evidence?
I'm neither lonely nor lack self esteem, and on a personal note I find the verbal flow of 'cheap cigars, Mountain Dew and Chili Cheese Fritos' amusing, despite being accurate. YMMV :+1:
I'm neither lonely nor lack self esteem, and on a personal note I find the verbal flow of 'cheap cigars, Mountain Dew and Chili Cheese Fritos' amusing, despite being accurate. YMMV :+1:
Well, I found the humor and took it as nothing else, and appreciated it. Hopefully my response was not taken otherwise.
Saw in the news today that covid-19 is stored in fat cells and affects surrounding tissues. So I was right that there are risk factors for the disease, such as age and obesity, and the paranoia about everyone potentially getting severely afflicted by it is misplaced.
early morning
12-9-21, 5:36pm
saw in the obits today that two acquaintances, younger than me and both on the side of thin, died of covid 19. They were never known to wear masks....
My assistant's two kids, ages 6 and 10, both have it. Yesterday they were sick enough that she took them to the ER. Since then their fevers have dropped and oxygen sats have gotten back up to the mid-90s but she sounded quite freaked out yesterday when I spoke with her. Thankfully she's fully vaxxed so she hasn't shown any symptoms so far.
I guess I'm an outlier but I only know one person that has had Covid. She thinks she got it after an emergency trip to the ER for a bee sting since the room was full of sick people without masks.
I know quite a few people who have had it, but only one under age 70 who has been hospitalized for it. Everyone I know, or who is related to someone I know, and has died of it was mid eighties or older.
I guess I'm an outlier but I only know one person that has had Covid. She thinks she got it after an emergency trip to the ER for a bee sting since the room was full of sick people without masks.
The friend once removed that tested positive--but was never sick--probably got it from visiting an ailing relative, also in the hospital.
https://i.imgur.com/gsaU2XR.png
It would be interesting to see Bae's chart broken down into vaccinated and unvaccinated by age. Possibly a comfort to me, being in one of the larger blue smudge categories with booster.
I know of maybe a half dozen who have had symptomatic Covid, but none have had severe symptoms. No one over seventy and just one was a breakthough infection. I know quite a few people relative to my small social group and family who have taken more risk than I would consider and not had any problems. Both before and after vaccination.
https://i.imgur.com/gsaU2XR.png
Hey, the same chart I use to argue making kids wear masks is unwarranted!
happystuff
12-10-21, 11:01am
It would be interesting to see Bae's chart broken down into vaccinated and unvaccinated by age. Possibly a comfort to me, being in one of the larger blue smudge categories with booster.
I know of maybe a half dozen who have had symptomatic Covid, but none have had severe symptoms. No one over seventy and just one was a breakthough infection. I know quite a few people relative to my small social group and family who have taken more risk than I would consider and not had any problems. Both before and after vaccination.
Well, as I've stated before, I know several people who have had it - and variants. Most survived but several did not.
What is it called when someone says they were only kidding but actually not?
Disingenuous?
Hey, the same chart I use to argue making kids wear masks is unwarranted!
It is such a good thing that children live on their own, don’t live in households with parents and grandparents, and don’t interact with the broader community…
It is such a good thing that children live on their own, don’t live in households with parents and grandparents, and don’t interact with the broader community…
Maybe kids should also be responsible for taking care of their alcoholic and drug addicted elders who refuse to take care of themselves. Because there is a way the elders can protect themselves - it's called vaccination!
rosarugosa
12-10-21, 7:36pm
Our 2 neighbors across the street have recently recovered from Covid. Husband is 58 and wife is 70. She was sicker than him and in the hospital for a few days, but they are both doing OK now. I think they are vaccinated, but I'm not sure. We like them and they like us, although we are not close, but we are careful to avoid any discussion of politics because we are not on the same page at all. I found out today that another neighbor, whom we really don't know at all, just died of Covid at age 37. He was a correctional officer and was certainly not obese, although I know nothing about his medical history.
Maybe kids should also be responsible for taking care of their alcoholic and drug addicted elders who refuse to take care of themselves. Because there is a way the elders can protect themselves - it's called vaccination!
It’s undoubtedly true that at least some kids drive their parents to drink.
I've known and read of people who have had breakthrough infections, but I've not know or heard of anyone who for sure had both shots plus the booster.
It’s undoubtedly true that at least some kids drive their parents to drink.
But the adults have to be responsible. There were definitely times I thought a drink would help, but I decided against it because I knew if I started I might not want to stop.
According to a study in Colorado vaccinated but not boosted people are 3.3 times more likely to wind up in the hospital with covid and 2.4 times less likely to test positive. And boosted people are 9.7 times less likely to test positive than completely unvaxxed people.
https://coloradosun.com/2021/12/07/covid-vaccine-booster-colorado-hospitalizations/
According to a study in Colorado vaccinated but not boosted people are 3.3 times more likely to wind up in the hospital with covid and 2.4 times less likely to test positive. And boosted people are 9.7 times less likely to test positive than completely unvaxxed people.
https://coloradosun.com/2021/12/07/covid-vaccine-booster-colorado-hospitalizations/
The bigger gap is between unvaccinated and vaccinated. But let's keep hogging the doses so variants keep cropping up around the world. Because it's not like one of those variants will evolve to evade our vaccines completely, and leave us in worse shape than if we'd shared, right? I mean we've got it all figured out, right?
Teacher Terry
12-11-21, 1:56pm
Bar, if you want to live with your parents and daughter you can do so but most people enjoy their own domain. Past generation had no choice.
rosarugosa
12-12-21, 7:35am
Since I posted, I've read that the 37 YO corrections officer was in good health, worked out regularly, had no pre-existing conditions, but was not vaccinated. His family wanted this info made known in hopes it will encourage others to get vaccinated. He leaves a 6 YO child behind.
dado potato
12-12-21, 8:20pm
In 35 states there was an increase in the 7-day average number of new cases, following Thanksgiving.
I think this was primarily due to family get-togethers for Turkey Day. Christmas festivities this year will bring more people together indoors.
I don't mind passing on Xmas and New Year's gatherings this year. Let there be more eggnog for everybody else. Maybe next year, if we are lucky.
In this neck of the woods now there is good snow cover for XC skiing or snowshoeing. Instead of sitting around waiting for the time we all sing "Auld Lang Syne", we could go out in the sparking snow and make tracks!
When I was younger, I wore a CD player with headphones and listened to Chopin Mazurkas while skiing, and I would stop on hilltops to listen to the wind sighing in the needles of red pine trees.
Now, in my riper years, maybe Morten Lauridsen!
I check the NYT daily hotspot updates sort of like the map you posted earlier dado. The NE seems to be the new hot spots and the west and south seem to be better. The hospital crunch here is better. I used to hike and bike with some form of earbuds or headphones, but any more I like the wind, birds, and silence. I'm undecided on Christmas events so far, but large gatherings with travellers from elsewhere that I don't know well are out. The shots and booster has given me a little more confidence and all of my small famiily and social circle are up to date on shots.
I'm deciding about holiday events. One is with 3 couples, all vaccinated but out and about often, the other is a family brunch, all vaccinated EXCEPT one family with 4 kids...host told them they had to have a covid test before they could come. I'm hoping they just skip it. They are lovely people, just unvaccinated so if they are there we will stay a shorter time and keep our distance.. The last event is an overnight at my sister's. All vaccinated. Not too much outside interaction that I know of. It's giving me pause, but I think I'll do all 3. I am vaccinated and boosted.
I’m going to be in north FL cave country this weekend through just after Christmas. The weather is good and appears it will stay that way. The group I’m going to be part of have always had evenings around the fire pit and that predates covid by many years. Last year they had the potluck Christmas dinner outside. I’m not particularly worried. There could be a few unvaxxed people but we’ll be outside.
iris lilies
12-13-21, 3:35pm
I’m going to be in north FL cave country this weekend through just after Christmas. The weather is good and appears it will stay that way. The group I’m going to be part of have always had evenings around the fire pit and that predates covid by many years. Last year they had the potluck Christmas dinner outside. I’m not particularly worried. There could be a few unvaxxed people but we’ll be outside.
outside is good!
Here's an article talking about changing the focus on covid-19 response rather than keeping the same approach we had pre-vaccine.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/as-omicron-hits-covid-19-case-counts-don-t-mean-what-they-used-to/ar-AARSOdZ?cvid=aa7855c0f02b4c7fdcfb68b311cfb5d4&ocid=winp1taskbar
A note I just received today from my county Public Health Officer:
Just to be clear. This is the quiet before the storm. Be wise and prudent and don't go out to eat, don't travel for the holidays, love the ones you are with now and have been with all along. January will be the hardest time in my lifetime. I am 70 now and lived through easy times from a historical perspective. My time in the 'uniformed services' was on Navajo in the Public Health Service. But these will be hard times. Two years in we think we have suffered, and many have but the coming wave will penetrate deeply into our society. The vaccinated will largely get bad colds and yet will be infectious and the disease will spread more quickly than every and get to the entire population.
If you are not vaccinated and are higher risk you could easily die. Our hospitals are already at or past maximum occupancy, locally running over 100% occupancy more than under. The critical element that is missing are not rooms, beds or supplies but rather personnel. We are short on highly trained people and that is a shortage that can not be imagined away or magically fixed with more money or changes in policy. We will hit a place where we move to 'crisis standards of care'-- which means some people will get care and others will not. Healthcare providers will have to choose between those with COVID and require intubation and those with heart attacks and need immediate surgery.
This is coming at us quickly but sort of in slow motion. Here is some advice:
Do not travel for the holidays. Spend time with those you love at home that you have already been spending time with.
Do not eat out, it seems safe but this disease will sweep through our communities quickly and the fact has not changed that people are most infectious in the 48 hours BEFORE they develop symptoms.
Be prepared to take care of yourself. Buy a pulse oximeter now, give them for Christmas presents, if you run below 94 call your doctor if you are below 90 call EMS.
Something as old fashioned as a humidifier, the old fashioned things we used when kids had coughs when they were little, will reduce the rate of pneumonia in kids and adults. In the winter when we heat our homes it dries the air out inside (yes even when it is raining outside) and the moisture in the air keep you lungs and upper airways able to mobilize and cough out the junk that otherwise clogs up your lungs. Ask an otolaryngologist if you don't believe me.
Please be kind. Especially if you are fairly sure you know the Truth and feel obligated to share your insights with others or if you are angry about not getting what you think you need or want. The healthcare folks..... they are exhausted. I see my own staff in tears fairly often these days they have been working hard, exposed to real risk to them (and their families) for 2 YEARS now, and they are literally exhausted. They are going to be a little cranky themselves at some point so be patient with them, they are still showing up and honestly they are even more 'over it' than you could even imagine.
Over the next two weeks we are going to go up a hill that will seem to go on forever. This is the beginning, not the end of the hard part. You are tired of it all, so is everyone else. We want to be over and for things to go back to normal. That is not going to happen until we get over the next 6 weeks. Stop pretending it is over. Stop the parties, the dinners out, the travel... just stop it, now.
If we don't we are going to be in a world of hurt. In San Juan we still have not had any deaths in the county, we have half the infection rates of the second lowest county in the US. We are going to have deaths and our infection rates are going to go up dramatically. It is not about the quality of the public health response this bug is really bad. Less severe perhaps for those immunized we may just get 'a bad cold' but the immune compromised and the elders and most of all the unimmunized, they will be at that time in life when life could end, yes permanently. And they are parents that may not be there to take care of their children, grand parents that may not see the next Christmas, children than may not be in class in 2022. So damn it get vaccinated, wear a mask when you are out of the house (an N95 or KN 95 as they are no longer in short supply - finally!) If you wear cloth one a paper one should be under it.
This will sound odd but Merry Christmas! Going through a pandemic is a disaster but we can get to the other side together and with our humanity and caring intact. We can learn from this what really matters (and it is each other). My mother's sign that hung in our kitchen growing up still hangs in mine. "The most important things in life.... aren't things."
happystuff
12-18-21, 2:40pm
Thank you, bae. What a poignant and necessary reminder.
I agree with ALL of it, especially "Please be kind."
Months before the government told us the initial virus from Wuhan was in the US it was already community spreading on both coasts. Similarly, omicron was here before it was detected and acknowledged, brought from the old world - some say southern Africa, but earlier cases were found in the Netherlands and it almost certainly was in the UK as well.
If you're one if those who travelled to and from the UK earlier this year despite the chance that this or another variant could hitch a ride with you, no problem. You already got your travel and family gatherings in, so now you can sit back and scold the little people who don't have your jet set lifestyle for doing the same. After all, rules are only for little people. And be sure to take your mask off at the press conferences where you scold other people so you will look better on TV.
ApatheticNoMore
12-18-21, 3:02pm
At this point, nearly 2 years in, people will do what they will do. Going to restaurants may be something you think you need, seeing people really is a need. No mention of things like home covid tests, which maybe is a good idea before small gatherings (huge parties really probably are a very bad idea), of course they are hard to get and expensive because 'Merica. Jet set, I bet a lot of people have plans to get on planes to see people over the holidays, so the jet set is a huge set. A lot but not all of the hospital overwhelm is probably the unvaccinated, I don't know how much longer one can expect people who have got all their covid vaxes, to keep making up for those deadbeats.
iris lilies
12-18-21, 3:24pm
Shade. 0 points.
I dunno, I would give her a point or two on that.
I didn’t get on a plane, didn’t rub elbows with people in an airport, didn’t attend indoor parties with friends beyond 1 time, or didnt go to a super spreader Rolling Stones concert this year. I have the funds and the time to do all of it. I didn’t know this summer and fall was our only window of opportunity, and now we have to hunker down. I didn’t get that memo.
The thing about Jeppy is that there’s a tiny grain of truth in many of her posts, while greatly exaggerated and always “out there “. But that’s how these damn conspiracy things get started.
That said, this communication from a county public health officer displays intense emotion. I’m sorry he is so beaten down by this virus. I’ve said it before here often that I do feel sorry for the healthcare workers who are working in this environment, It’s very difficult and I’m sure lives are being diminished and lost because of problems with capacity in our healthcare system.
I attended our local theater's Holiday musical presentation this week. Photo ID, proof of vaccination and masks. They had a security guard walking through the audience to make sure all the masks were on. It was a sell out crowd and I was slightly uncormfortable but wanted to see some friends at least once in person before Christmas. Until the results of Holiday crowds and any omicron risk is known I'm going back to very small gatherings of vaccinated people and extra precautions in public spaces indoors. But probably not the stay at home isolation of earlier times. Infection rates and any hospital crunches are down here for now after going through a concerning wave a few weeks ago and no outbreaks of the new variant, at least that they know of.
It's conceivable local health authorities may over emphasize risk just to get some of the laggards to take things seriously, but the news I'm seeing is saying to get ready for a new wave.
Chicken lady
12-18-21, 6:36pm
My county set a new all time record for 7 day covid death average yesterday. Yay us!
School is out. Wonder if we will really go back on the 4th? All of my students will have had time to get double vaxxed +2 weeks and many of the teens were getting boosted.
The health officer's directive sounds just like common sense to me to deal with today's situation in that geographical location wisely trying to protect and advise its residents.
Everyone who does not live in a cave will be exposed to covid. It is just a matter of time. We need to learn to live with it not cower in fear year after year. By all means take whatever measures make you feel good, just don't tell me what to do.
Teacher Terry
12-18-21, 8:59pm
I really feel sorry for the man that wrote that letter. Omicron is extremely contagious but it appears to be mild and it may even be attaching to the common cold. In a way this could be good news if it wasn’t any more deadly then a cold.
ApatheticNoMore
12-18-21, 9:40pm
I don't know that it is mild, but maybe if you are triple vaxed or equivalent, it will just be like a flu. I suppose the only good thing about it being so contagious is wave will be over soon enough though (beginning of Feb or March?)
This is the update on do it at home covid tests: local Walgreens out, CVS had, limit of one test packet per person with two tests in a packet, they cost over $26 per packet with the sales tax (oh yes there is state sales tax on covid test, fun fun. Who knows if insurance reimburses the sales tax). FWIW I don't at all think I have covid, I just say if I'm going to see older people inside maybe I should (though they are intimidating so we'll see) ... so I got one test packet, as that's all I'm allowed. Like as if there was a limit of one condom per person to prevent the spread of STDS (and a condom cost $27) :~)
boss mare
12-19-21, 2:24am
Everyone who does not live in a cave will be exposed to covid. It is just a matter of time. We need to learn to live with it not cower in fear year after year. By all means take whatever measures make you feel good, just don't tell me what to do.
I don't cower in fear. I take universal precautions. You do you. And if it makes you feel superior, please, by all means keep correcting my spelling and grammar. I find it amusing. Pro Tip: Make your corrections in red.
Teacher Terry
12-19-21, 2:36am
A doctor from South Africa was on tv and they were filming a half empty hospital. He said previously it was over capacity with Delta. Now tons of people have omicron but didn’t need medical care. That’s encouraging if it continues to be true.
sweetana3
12-19-21, 5:49am
I am always suspicious of info coming out of Africa or India. They manipulate information and have been shown to outright lie when the facts do not support their position. However, it does seem that the new variant of the virus is potentially less virulent. However, still appears as dangerous to those with underlying conditions and the unvaccinated.
ps: I have a sinus infection type cold for over a week and would not want anything else. This is bad enough.
I am always suspicious of info coming out of Africa or India. They manipulate information and have been shown to outright lie when the facts do not support their position. However, it does seem that the new variant of the virus is potentially less virulent. However, still appears as dangerous to those with underlying conditions and the unvaccinated.
ps: I have a sinus infection type cold for over a week and would not want anything else. This is bad enough.
I would be suspicious of China or Russia, but not the democracies in India or South Africa. I give major kudos to South Africa for warning the world about omicron. In response Fauci imposed travel restrictions on them which he did not lift even after it came out that omicron was discovered in the Netherlands before it was discovered in South Africa. Even with South Africa over its omicron peak the loathsome Fauci and Biden have kept those restrictions in place while Biden lifted restrictions on foreign nationals traveling to the US from hard hit European countries. It's racism pure and simple.
rosarugosa
12-19-21, 8:11am
I don't cower in fear. I take universal precautions. You do you. And if it makes you feel superior, please, by all means keep correcting my spelling and grammar. I find it amusing. Pro Tip: Make your corrections in red.
Same here. No "cowering in fear," just living my life pretty happily and taking reasonable precautions.
Discretion is the better part of valor.
ApatheticNoMore
12-19-21, 2:31pm
Living one's life happily is definitely not taking the same level of precaution as in spring 2020. But we are supposed to avoid all gatherings again etc.. Mind you that I got the booster in part because there was a gathering of 8 at a restaurant I didn't want to miss. So I'm a bad bad girl but ..
By the way though I don't necessarily buy the omicron is mild thing. Maybe it is at least for the vaccinated, but they repeatedly lie to us to preserve xmas celebrations and shopping (well really they only care about the buying things). Who? THEY. THEY. You know. Ok, ok, my actual beefs had particulars, this time last year governor Newsom, didn't shut down while the wave grew and grew because xmas shopping season I highly suspect. The wave became scary beyond all measure, they only shut things down after xmas shopping. Hospitals became overwhelmed, people died unnecessarily. But xmas shopping. So now I think that's all anyone in authority really cares about. The business of America is consumerism. And they will say it's mild until the day after xmas or so, when woops, this thing is NOT MILD. Oopsie ... (And then I had to hold my nose to keep Newsom lest complete lunatics take over the asylum, sigh, talk about someone I did not want to vote "for")
I don't know anyone who is "cowering in fear," though probably some should be.
I don't know anyone who is "cowering in fear," though probably some should be.
I see plenty "cowering in fear". They seem to be afraid that there are nanobots in vaccines, that there's a world-wide conspiracy about covid, that this is all Another Scheme By The Government to rule them with an iron first, that sort of thing.
Preserving Xmas shopping - somewhat, but it doesn't hold a candle to preserving pharma profits. Why else can't the patents created with massive taxpayer subsidies be released to the rest of the world to save lives? Why instead the push for boosters we were told just a couple months ago are not needed unless one is immunocompromised? Why the push for boosters that may not even work on omicron?
Pharma profits....
OK, how profitable is the pharma industry, compared to other common sectors? Where does this show up, in their bottom line? Is it reflected in dividends, or ...? Like, is pharma the above-everything-else investment sector of choice? If so, is capital seeking out these above-the-norm returns?
Interested people want to know...
Our governor has proposed eliminating the term booster, that it should just be a part of the three shot regime to be fully vaccinated.
Our governor has proposed eliminating the term booster, that it should just be a part of the three shot regime to be fully vaccinated.
Will all the childhood boosters for things like measles, mumps and rubella be renamed too in order to be politically correct?
You know, the 69 different doses of vaccines excluding covid that are required by the time a child reaches age 18. Or the 50 doses required by age 6.
Do you think the recent issues that led to J&J being unrecommended in the US are a fluke? Or could perhaps the skyrocketing numbers of autoimmune disorders be related to the proliferation of shots?
Don't ask the government, the universities, the scientific journals, the medical institutions, or the pharmaceutical companies if you want an objective answer. It reminds me of a joke I heard about Rhode Island - the church, the government, and the mob there are all one and the same.
Don't ask the government, the universities, the scientific journals, the medical institutions, or the pharmaceutical companies if you want an objective answer.
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91jjecFej+L._SL1500_.jpg
The critical illness of my son's father-in-law has brought this home and made me insist my husband get a booster last week.
He is back from the hospital, and the word my son used is "maimed." He is on oxygen and when he got up to go to the bathroom a couple of days, his saturation went into the 50's. My son said standing up is a great challenge.
As someone who has been through a similar life threatening illness with respiratory failure, and I was actually sicker than my son's fil, I have no idea why anyone would turn down a vaccine or a booster if offered. He may lose his job, his house, and he is not out of the wood yet as far as his life goes, either.
Their insanity continues; everything is the fault of the doctors, who "refused to treat them" and the hospital, who "kicked him out and sent him home," even though they said the hospital was doing nothing for them and asked to bring him home. They continue to put others at risk.
My husband was in the evil pharma out to make endless profit camp, and was not going to get a booster. I told him he owed it to his granddaughter, and someone had to model good behavior, and take whatever risk there might be in the booster so that she did not get exposed to the virus again, as she is too little to get the vaccine.
I don't know, I am out of patience with people saying, oh, people are too fearful--I tried to get info on omicron and the only thing I could find not behind a paywall was Fox, and they were telling people, "oh this is all about fear," and I think that is part of the problem, as my son's in-laws spent months telling us they weren't afraid, it was all exaggerated, if they got it it would be no worse than the flu, etc.
No one in the US has died from omicron. Seven people have died of it in the UK. It is not like Alpha or Delta.
boss mare
12-19-21, 5:05pm
Fun Horse Fact Of The Day: A horse's center of gravity is slightly above and
behind the elbow.
sweetana3
12-19-21, 5:07pm
And people do die from the flu even when vaccinated. It is a complex process to decide on what "varieties" to include in each yearly shot. I have asthma and can easily be thrown into an attack. The doctor has given me the "people die from asthma" lecture and I am trained to know when to seek emergency room help. Have only needed it once. I get all the shots I can as soon as possible.
Do you think the recent issues that led to J&J being unrecommended in the US are a fluke? Or could perhaps the skyrocketing numbers of autoimmune disorders be related to the proliferation of shots?
I no longer respond to people who promote, regurgitate or amplify gross Covid misinformation.
Don't ask the government, the universities, the scientific journals, the medical institutions, or the pharmaceutical companies if you want an objective answer.
So, who ya gonna call? Ghostbusters?
Independent researchers who do not receive their funding from the pharma cartel, including researchers in other countries.
Jep, I think that Kennedy book is getting to you:)
Jep, I think that Kennedy book is getting to you:)
Long before I read the Kennedy book I agreed with the World Health Organization that Americans who are not in high risk categories should not be getting boosted.
I'm hardly a Pharma booster, and I recognize that when money comes in the door, objectivity is one of its first casualties, but I'm not willing to play Russian roulette with whatever life I have left.
One thing I suspect, if you'd have left it up to the government to develop vaccines within their institutions there would still be delays. I lost track of any initiatives the Universities had to develop one, but they all must have been substandard. Profit was probably part of the incentive to develop any vaccine at all. That pretty much leaves big pharma.
Decisions are being made based not on getting everyone vaccinated so we can drive covid into endemicity and cut down on all the variants, but on pharma profits. Boosters will not change the trajectory of the disease. Initial shots will. But instead of initial shots going out to everyone first we are seeing people who already have a decent level of protection get boosted because they live in rich countries that can pay pharma's high prices.
Remember when we were told take any vaccine you can get? That included J&J at 75% efficacy. I got Moderna at 95% efficacy. Now my Moderna has maybe waned to 75%. I'm still good. People with 0% in the Third World are not.
Crazyiness.
I agree. Absolutely crazy how we let big pharma prolong this pandemic. The government funded Warp Speed and could force them to share their formulas with drug makers in poor countries but the Feds who are in bed with the industry and its PIs refuse.
Both Cory booker and Liz Warren announced today that they have breakthrough cases. Thankfully both are fully vaxxed and boosted so they are having relatively mild cases. I didn’t know that warren’s older brother died of covid back in the first wave in the spring of 2020.
Both Cory booker and Liz Warren announced today that they have breakthrough cases. Thankfully both are fully vaxxed and boosted so they are having relatively mild cases. I didn’t know that warren’s older brother died of covid back in the first wave in the spring of 2020.
I am praying for them both; these breakthrough cases are alarming.
I saw Trump toeing the thankless middle ground, talking about the benefit of vaccines and stating he got a booster. The right booed him and the left will still not give him any credit.
I’m still hoping Trump will receive the credit for his role in the insurrection.
ApatheticNoMore
12-21-21, 8:04pm
I don't mind giving Trump some credit for Warp Speed. But giving Trump some credit for coming out for boosters when the whole Trump movement is why there is so much opposition to the vaccine to begin with is what: better too little, too late, than never?
I mean the whole game of people like Trump is to play both sides, for and against the vaccine etc. (and p.s. covid was never a threat to anyone to begin with so why are we vaxxing against this non-threat again?), slippery and impossible to pin down. But sure maybe some get vaccinated because of this, some have already died due to Trump and antivax propaganda.
If Fauci suddenly disappeared, I can't see any of the messaging changing. Our local health officials are on board with the common recommendations, as are the talking heads on TV that represent various agencies and authorities. I occasionally check in on the This Week in Virology that includes respected virology experts in academics. If Fauci were suddenly replaced, there would just be a new whipping boy. He's not the only respectable authority trying to help us out of this and many are not associated with the CDC, NIH, or who ever else might be on Bill Gates payroll.
I'm trying to get past Trump, but do hope he has some karma payback coming.
Fauci is a bully who has destroyed the careers of anyone who dared cross him or question his unethical experiments including on 3 day old babies who could not give consent and who were in the foster care system so their parents could not give consent, on mothers and babies subjected to horrific experiments in Uganda, on defenseless beagles in North Africa, and the list goes on. I have a feeling that if he were removed the pall of fear would be lifted and whistleblowers would come forward just like happened in the Soviet Union after Stalin died.
For now we have to rely on information from other countries like New Zealand which reported a vaccine death in a young man who given his age probably would never have died of covid. I love my country but New Zealand sure looks good about now.
You might have had some time to reflect during their 90 day lock down, if the vaccines didn't get you first. Fauci is everywhere. Have you checked on that unusual shadow in your closet at night.
Its biggest city Auckland has been in lockdown for over 90 days, although some measures were eased recently.
"The hard truth is that Delta is here and not going away, but New Zealand is well set to tackle it because of our high vaccination rates and our latest safety measures including the traffic light system and Vaccine Pass," Ardern said in a statement.
There's no evidence Dr. Fauci had anything to do with the beagle experiments, other than his association with the NIH ;
'Research conducted on behalf of NIAID is funded in large part through annual funds allocated by Congress and the president, though direct projects may be signed off on by various leaders within NIH. However, there is no evidence that the grant was personally approved by Fauci and there is no mention of him in the FOIA documentation. All that we can definitively say is that at least some of the money came from NIH." (Snopes)
I suspect most of the anti-Fauci stuff found on line is similarly sketchy, but I'm not interested in pursuing it further.
Fauci is a ...
Yppej's amplification and promotion of misinformation and agitprop is quite helpful for the rest of us. It's hard to imagine normal people being this vile, misinformed, deliberately disruptive, or deranged, so it is a useful touchstone.
If you look at what has been happening to public health officials nationwide, well, you'd see Yppej's words for what they are. Shame, shame, shame.
boss mare
12-21-21, 11:57pm
Fauci is a bully who has destroyed the careers of anyone who dared cross him or question his unethical experiments including on 3 day old babies who could not give consent and who were in the foster care system so their parents could not give consent, on mothers and babies subjected to horrific experiments in Uganda, on defenseless beagles in North Africa, and the list goes on. I have a feeling that if he were removed the pall of fear would be lifted and whistleblowers would come forward just like happened in the Soviet Union after Stalin died.
For now we have to rely on information from other countries like New Zealand which reported a vaccine death in a young man who given his age probably would never have died of covid. I love my country but New Zealand sure looks good about now.
I have been following the American singer/ songwriter Amanda Palmer on FB where she is in New Zealand. She was on tour and got stuck there in 2020 . She describes it as very hard with their lockdowns. I don’t think you would be happy there either. Maybe follow her an FB and read what it’s like
There's no evidence Dr. Fauci had anything to do with the beagle experiments, other than his association with the NIH ;
'Research conducted on behalf of NIAID is funded in large part through annual funds allocated by Congress and the president, though direct projects may be signed off on by various leaders within NIH. However, there is no evidence that the grant was personally approved by Fauci and there is no mention of him in the FOIA documentation. All that we can definitively say is that at least some of the money came from NIH." (Snopes)
I suspect most of the anti-Fauci stuff found on line is similarly sketchy, but I'm not interested in pursuing it further.
The buck stops with the boss. What did actions did he take against the beagles researchers when he found out?
Compare that to the actions he took against those who pointed out the emperor had no clothes after he killed thousands of people with high doses of AZT, including asymptomatic people. AZT doses were so toxic chemo patients didn't receive it for more than a couple weeks. The high death counts from AIDS were inflated by healthy people dying prematurely because the cure was deadlier than the disease, but those who pointed this out were shunned and lost their grants and, unless they were tenured at a university, their jobs. The beagle torturers did not.
Now we repeat the cycle with the promotion of toxic remdesivir for covid-19 instead of safer, cheaper, non patented medications.
The jury is in on the best approach to covid:
US deaths per million - 2,418.09
Sweden deaths per million - 1,476.94
Yppej's amplification and promotion of misinformation and agitprop is quite helpful for the rest of us. It's hard to imagine normal people being this vile, misinformed, deliberately disruptive, or deranged, so it is a useful touchstone.
If you look at what has been happening to public health officials nationwide, well, you'd see Yppej's words for what they are. Shame, shame, shame.
Fauci has said that his death threats and threats of violence have increased since RFK Jr.'s book. I suspect there is an element among RFK Jr.'s subscribers and Fox that extends into, and fuels the anti science movement. And not to mention threats to other health officials.
I understand many of RFK Jr's family are distancing themselves from him due to his anti science stance. He's not just anti Fauci but also your basic overall anti-vaxxer.
The jury is in on the best approach to covid:
US deaths per million - 2,418.09
Sweden deaths per million - 1,476.94
Finland - 270
Norway - 225
I see Japan has not caught the omicron wave because it has kept its borders largely closed.
Fauci has said that his death threats and threats of violence have increased since RFK Jr.'s book. I suspect there is an element among RFK Jr.'s subscribers and Fox that extends into, and fuels the anti science movement. And not to mention threats to other health officials.
I understand many of RFK Jr's family are distancing themselves from him due to his anti science stance. He's not just anti Fauci but also your basic overall anti-vaxxer.
Fauci has been threatened. By contrast, the president of Haiti actually was assassinated by people who didn't like that he would not kowtow to the global world order. Some see a connection to his opposition to covid vaccines.
ETA: The growing disgust with Fauci could also be the result of increasing coverage of his lies about having funded the engineering of a virus that has killed millions worldwide by funding gain of function studies in a Wuhan lab that didn't have proper safety protocols to prevent the virus from spreading into the community. I know many Republicans have brought this up including physicians like Rand Paul and Dr. Oz.
The jury is in on the best approach to covid:
US deaths per million - 2,418.09
Sweden deaths per million - 1,476.94
Dr. Yppej, as usual, uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts — for support rather than illumination. I would fail them from any data analysis course I've ever taught.
But, if one wants to cherry pick, without any context or delving into sample differences, hey:
Deaths per million:
San Juan County, WA 0
Vermont 729
Hawaii 757
Maine 1088
Utah 1166
Alaska 1251
Washington 1283
Oregon 1318
New Hampshire 1347
Mississippi 3490
I know many Republicans have brought this up including physicians like Rand Paul and Dr. Oz.
Ah, the leaders in medicals fields. Rand Paul doesn't even deserve comment. He's just a politician.
A study by the British Medical Journal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Medical_Journal) in 2014 concluded that less than half the claims made on The Dr. Oz Show were backed by "some" evidence, and that fell to a third when the threshold was raised to "believable" evidence.
ETA: The growing disgust with Fauci could also be the result of increasing coverage of his lies about having funded the engineering of a virus that has killed millions worldwide by funding gain of function studies in a Wuhan lab that didn't have proper safety protocols to prevent the virus from spreading into the community. I know many Republicans have brought this up including physicians like Rand Paul and Dr. Oz.
Right out of the nutty right-wing blogosphere, brought to us by Yppej yet again.
Taking bets on how long it takes for the Mengele comparison to make it through those neurons into the keyboard...
iris lilies
12-22-21, 1:29pm
Ah, the leaders in medicals fields. Rand Paul doesn't even deserve comment. He's just a politician.
A study by the British Medical Journal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Medical_Journal) in 2014 concluded that less than half the claims made on The Dr. Oz Show were backed by "some" evidence, and that fell to a third when the threshold was raised to "believable" evidence.
Rand is the only politician I give money to. But his clear grandstanding for political points in the
whole “gain of function” debate did not endear him to me. Gain of function is a very technical concept and I accept that some scientists think it was not in play in Wuhan in the case of
covid. I don’t really care about “ gain of function” and who is right in that debate.
What that whole debate brought up to me was, the United States is actively involved in funding research in China. HUNH?
US taxpayers are funding viral research in China? WHAT?
We’re participating in that particular Wuhan lab research. HUNH?
umm, Well how about that. Like, Maybe we should reevaluate all of that.
What that whole debate brought up to me was, the United States is actively involved in funding research in China. HUNH?
US taxpayers are funding viral research in China? WHAT?
We’re participating in that particular Wuhan lab research. HUNH?
umm, Well how about that. Like, Maybe we should reevaluate all of that.
BBC's reality check.
https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
Dr. Yppej, as usual, uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts — for support rather than illumination. I would fail them from any data analysis course I've ever taught.
But, if one wants to cherry pick, without any context or delving into sample differences, hey:
Deaths per million:
San Juan County, WA 0
Vermont 729
Hawaii 757
Maine 1088
Utah 1166
Alaska 1251
Washington 1283
Oregon 1318
New Hampshire 1347
Mississippi 3490
Mississippi has the highest rate of obesity in the nation. Research shows that covid-19 stores itself in fat cells and attacks surrounding tissues. That is why obese people are disproportionately affected by it.
Advanced age also correlates to bad outcomes. Utah and Alaska have very young populations compared to the rest of the country.
There are many factors in covid deaths, but mask wearing does not correlate to deaths.
Covid death rates by state, greatest to least, N = never had a state mask mandate; Y = did at least some of the time:
Mississippi - N
Alabama - N
New Jersey - Y
Louisiana - Y
Arizona - N
Oklahoma - N
New York - Y
Arkansas - Y
Georgia - N
Florida - N
Massachusetts - Y
West Virginia - Y
Rhode Island - Y
South Carolina - N
Michigan - Y
South Dakota - N
Pennsylvania - Y
Indiana - N
Montana - N
Nevada - Y
North Dakota - N
New Mexico - Y
Tennessee - N
Kentucky - N
Wyoming - N
Texas - N
Missouri - N
Connecticut - Y
Do you see the pattern? There isn't one.
Do you see the pattern? There isn't one.
I see a very clear pattern in your method of "discussion", yes.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UDlEv9H2mfM/SbhxVW6GUsI/AAAAAAAABuU/2f72YQ8Co94/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/ink.jpeg
Do you see the pattern? There isn't one..
I suspect vaccination rates and possibly social behavior overshadow most everything else, but it's not worth my time to look it up. It's pretty much a given in the pandemic of the unvaccinated.
.
I suspect vaccination rates and possibly social behavior overshadow most everything else, but it's not worth my time to look it up. It's pretty much a given in the pandemic of the unvaccinated.
Agreed that vaccinations are the solution, not masks. The focus on masks is a distraction.
One article I read today said that wearing a cloth mask for omicron is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.
One article I read today said that wearing a cloth mask for omicron is like bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Sounds like a technical multivariant analysis.
Sounds like a technical multivariant analysis.
It is from a hospital industry magazine, and quotes officials from the World Health Organization, Ontario's Science Advisory Group, and the University of Oxford. But hey, people in the rest of the world don't know anything. Americans should just sit like sheeple and believe everything their government tells them. American exceptionalism is grand, isn't it?
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/cloth-masks-might-not-protect-against-omicron-experts-say.html
On my last few days of looking at news and I see that the internet now has people convinced that Pfizer's newly-approved antiviral is really just amped up Ivermectin.
iris lilies
12-22-21, 2:34pm
BBC's reality check.
https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699
Reality check on what I said? You mean, the sentence “…yes It did contribute some funds “
where “it “is the United States.
How does this dispute what I said?
iris lilies
12-22-21, 2:38pm
It is from a hospital industry magazine, and quotes officials from the World Health Organization, Ontario's Science Advisory Group, and the University of Oxford. But hey, people in the rest of the world don't know anything. Americans should just sit like sheeple and believe everything their government tells them. American exceptionalism is grand, isn't it?
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/cloth-masks-might-not-protect-against-omicron-experts-say.html
Hasn’t the WHO been at odds in some aspects of Covid information with the CDC? That doesn’t make them any more “right “or “wrong” or embracers or deniers of The Science. To me it just proves that the high priests of THE SCIENCE jockey for position. Fauci is one such priest.
happystuff
12-22-21, 2:39pm
Only because folks are quoting and quotes show up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU-paVv6zTk
I've seen comparisons of counties with and without mask mandates that show clear reductions in infection, and nearly every doctor I've seen/heard interviewed has emphasized the importance of proper mask wearing as part of the preventive armentarium against COVID.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm
4127
iris lilies
12-22-21, 2:44pm
I've seen comparisons of counties with and without mask mandates that show clear reductions in infection, and nearly every doctor I've seen/heard interviewed has emphasized the importance of proper mask wearing as part of the preventive Armentarium against COVID.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm
4127
” proper” being the operative word, and something all the laws in the land cannot address.
How does this dispute what I said?
Did I say it disputed what you said. I just found the details interesting. Maybe you knew all of that.
I've seen comparisons of counties with and without mask mandates that show clear reductions in infection, and nearly every doctor I've seen/heard interviewed has emphasized the importance of proper mask wearing as part of the preventive Armentarium against COVID.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e2.htm
4127
I don't see that in the state by state comparisons. Maybe there is a placebo effect though. Or maybe people who wear masks are generally cautious people who do better at social distancing and other preventive measures. I remain unconvinced that masks, especially as I see them worn in real life, are effective. You wrote "proper mask wearing". That's not letting it hang below your nose, taking it off when you talk so people can hear you more clearly, touching it all the time, using any random cloth mask, etc. I have seen some of the experiments demonstrated on TV - a mask is placed on some type of stand and particles are shot against it while it sits there properly in place and stationary. Then the mask is removed and particles are shot again and more get through. That is not a realistic model of what happens with human beings.
I almost some days that the people who know how all the various technologies work that keep our society functioning would just...step back...for a couple of months.
Let all the Internet experts shoulder the load for a while, see how that goes.
I could imagine in an alternate reality where a lot more people were vaccinated, masks might not be so important. Unfortunately we have anit-vaxxers like RFK Jr., Fox news, others around their social media circles and right to choose bunch promoting Covid disinformation around the vaccines and boosters that we all have to pay the price for. I don't know how many more of them will have to die or get ill before any of that changes, if ever.
I could imagine in an alternate reality where a lot more people were vaccinated, masks might not be so important. Unfortunately we have anit-vaxxers like RFK Jr., Fox news, others around their social media circles and right to choose bunch promoting Covid disinformation around the vaccines and boosters that we all have to pay the price for. I don't know how many more of them will have to die or get ill before any of that changes, if ever.
Enough people in my state are vaccinated. Those who choose not to get vaccinated will pay the price. The rest of us should not have to.
I could imagine in an alternate reality where a lot more people were vaccinated, masks might not be so important. Unfortunately we have anit-vaxxers like RFK Jr., Fox news, others around their social media circles and right to choose bunch promoting Covid disinformation around the vaccines and boosters that we all have to pay the price for. I don't know how many more of them will have to die or get ill before any of that changes, if ever.
I understand that RFK Jr is a true anti-vaxxer but I'm confused by the often repeated claim that Fox News is anti-vax. Are people just confusing anti-vax with anti-mandate, as some of their personalities claim to be? Whats the deal with that?
ApatheticNoMore
12-22-21, 3:05pm
It is curious why the CDC has never recommended better quality masks despite wide availability now (I had quality masks in March of 2020 but hey bf wanted protection from the awful smoke of west coast climate fires so had N95s then by coincidence). Why the CDC doesn't stress ventilation. And why what is actually a norm in many countries is to self-test yourself before all social events is kind of unheard of here. But that will never be a norm for most if test kits are near $30 and hard to find of course.
I understand that RFK Jr is a true anti-vaxxer but I'm confused by the often repeated claim that Fox News is anti-vax. Are people just confusing anti-vax with anti-mandate, as some of their personalities claim to be? Whats the deal with that?
Did I say that Fox news was anti-vaxx, or that they were the source of disinformation? Though I don't know what others might say. You can google Tucker Carlson as easy as me and believe it or not.
Did I say that Fox news was anti-vaxx, or that they were the source of disinformation? Yes, you said "Unfortunately we have anit-vaxxers like RFK Jr., Fox news, others around their social media circles...".
You can google Tucker Carlson as easy as me and believe it or not.
I've personally never paid any attention to Tucker Carlson so I'm not sure what he believes, but have watched/listened to the network's hard news segments and have never heard anything other than vaccine support. I'd never considered that people would equate one person for an entire network.
iris lilies
12-22-21, 3:17pm
Did I say it disputed what you said. I just found the details interesting. Maybe you knew all of that.
Oh, ok. Yes I knew that stuff at a summary level. Unfortunately I listened to too much of the live Fauci versus rand Paul congressional hearing. I only listened to it because it was a beautiful evening and I was driving around in my convertible.
Enough people in my state are vaccinated.
How much is enough? Enough so that the ICUs and hospitals only fill up with the unvaccinated, but don't overflow.
Oh, ok. Yes I knew that stuff at a summary level. Unfortunately I listened to too much of the live Fauci versus rand Paul congressional hearing. I only listened to it because it was a beautiful evening and I was driving around in my convertible.
My humble apologies. Some of it I didn't know and I found interesting. The term HUNH somewhat baffled me. Driving around in a convertible on a nice day sounds quite nice right now.
iris lilies
12-22-21, 3:24pm
It is curious why the CDC has never recommended better quality masks despite wide availability now (I had quality masks in March of 2020 but hey bf wanted protection from the awful smoke of west coast climate fires so had N95s then by coincidence). Why the CDC doesn't stress ventilation. And why what is actually a norm in many countries is to self-test yourself before all social events is kind of unheard of here. But that will never be a norm for most if test kits are near $30 and hard to find of course.
I listened to a prominent expert in disease transmission on the Joe Rogan show say exactly this. Yes Rogan does sometimes have real experts, they’re not all wackadoodle experts.
He pretty much said that lack of rapid result home testing today is a huge failing in our country. The rapid home tests are inexpensive and less accurate, but that’s OK if they give us more false positives than the other more accurate test, that is fine. The false positive rate is still quite low, very low.
One could look hard on this website to see all of the posts that lay this lack of test kit availability at the feet of Biden. You know, kind of like how all those billions of posts by, well, certain posters, laid at the feet of Trump lack of general testing back 15-20 months ago.
I could look hard to see those posts castigating Biden but I won’t because I’m not that kind of gal. Smile. But really it’s because – there aren’t any posts blaming Uncle Joe to find. So curious.
How much is enough? Enough so that the ICUs and hospitals only fill up with the unvaccinated, but don't overflow.
Over 80% of those eligible.
The hospitals are full because of 1) fear-mongering around covid that made everyone paranoid even if they were in a low risk group, so they didn't go for routine screenings and now there is a backlog of surgeries dealing with issues found when they did go - great job media fearmongers 2) a nurse's strike that is expected to be settled soon and has taken over 100 beds out of use 3) hundreds of hospital employees being fired because they refused to get vaccinated 4) a small percentage of the increase in hospitalization is actually due to covid. No surge hospitals have been opened nor is it anticipated any will be needed.
Yes, you said "[I]Unfortunately we have anit-vaxxers like RFK Jr., Fox news, others around their social media circles...".
I've personally never paid any attention to Tucker Carlson so I'm not sure what he believes, but have watched/listened to the network's hard news segments and have never heard anything other than vaccine support. I'd never considered that people would equate one person for an entire network.
I should be been more clear, as other than RFK Jr., Eric Clapton, and maybe Rand Paul I don't know of too many anti-vaxxers. Since I've never seen Fox news, I don't know how strongly Tucker represents the network, but I gather he is popular in some circles and suppose the network has some accountability.
iris lilies
12-22-21, 3:47pm
My humble apologies. Some of it I didn't know and I found interesting. The term HUNH somewhat baffled me. Driving around in a convertible on a nice day sounds quite nice right now.
HUNh Is my expression of disgust and wonder.
iris lilies
12-22-21, 3:50pm
Only because folks are quoting and quotes show up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU-paVv6zTk
i’m not sure what lesson we are to take away from this knife versus gun event in this film, but Coburn was great. Does it show that when you bring a knife to a gun fight the knife can win? Does it show that there are disputes in factual conflict?
???
I should be been more clear, as other than RFK Jr., Eric Clapton, and maybe Rand Paul I don't know of too many anti-vaxxers. Since I've never seen Fox news, I don't know how strongly Tucker represents the network, but I gather he is popular in some circles and suppose the network has some accountability.
No worries. I've just noticed over the past few years that most of the people who slam Fox News have never really watched/listened to it but get their opinions from others who also haven't watched/listened to it. I find it weird if not at least a little bit understandable based on our current state of tribalism and resultant desire to belittle enemy icons.
No worries. I've just noticed over the past few years that most of the people who slam Fox News have never really watched/listened to it but get their opinions from others who also haven't watched/listened to it. I find it weird if not at least a little bit understandable based on our current state of tribalism and resultant desire to belittle enemy icons.
I agree. I get much of my news from the NYT and I suspect there are conservatives who bash it without reading. At least from personal experiences, which doesn't represent the whole group anymore that your personal accounts. They do have some articles about Tucker Carlson and Fox news and I suspect Fox news people bash the NYT enemy icon.
Does it show that when you bring a knife to a gun fight the knife can win?
The knife can win, easily, in some circumstances. At a distance of ~20 feet or less, a knife-wielder has an advantage over a person with a firearm, especially if the firearm person is untrained in what to do about the problem.
Google "Tueller Drill" for analysis/videos/etc.
It's why cops tend to shoot people who "just have a knife and were 15 feet away".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill
It is curious why the CDC has never recommended better quality masks despite wide availability now (I had quality masks in March of 2020 but hey bf wanted protection from the awful smoke of west coast climate fires so had N95s then by coincidence). Why the CDC doesn't stress ventilation. And why what is actually a norm in many countries is to self-test yourself before all social events is kind of unheard of here. But that will never be a norm for most if test kits are near $30 and hard to find of course.
NPR had a feature this evening on how to stay safe over the Holidays. The recommendation wasn't from any government official, but "expert researchers recommend" They were saying based on the high level of Omicron transmissibility the cloth and surgical mask should be upgraded to KN95 or N95 masks. As usual, more to prevent the spread of the wearer rather than as personal protection.
Since the vaccine is less effective at preventing Omicron they say it's an extra layer of protection that could be needed. I don't know why government officials haven't suggested this since it makes sense to me. I think the general recommendation for the Holidays is still that you might not need a mask in small groups of people you know are vaccinated. They were also big on rapid testing, which is something the government has failed on.
happystuff
12-22-21, 8:53pm
i’m not sure what lesson we are to take away from this knife versus gun event in this film, but Coburn was great. Does it show that when you bring a knife to a gun fight the knife can win? Does it show that there are disputes in factual conflict?
???
Yes, Coburn was great! Yes, a knife can win, and what bae said. Lol
What some of you called my really bad idea is gaining traction - putting unvaccinated people at the end of the treatment line:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/doctor-suggests-unvaxxed-patients-should-be-moved-toward-the-back-of-the-treatment-line-we-need-to-talk-about-this/ar-AAS4t7V?cvid=4a6a54eaf7874670a74c83fbe7e5a858&ocid=winp1taskbar
What some of you called my really bad idea is gaining traction - putting unvaccinated people at the end of the treatment line:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/doctor-suggests-unvaxxed-patients-should-be-moved-toward-the-back-of-the-treatment-line-we-need-to-talk-about-this/ar-AAS4t7V?cvid=4a6a54eaf7874670a74c83fbe7e5a858&ocid=winp1taskbar
It's a horrid idea no matter who is proposing it.
iris lilies
12-23-21, 12:13pm
It's a horrid idea no matter who is proposing it.
Triage decisions have to be made on some criteria. What do you propose that criteria be? It makes logical sense.
Those in need of a new liver because they drank their liver away are not near the top of liver transplant list, as an example.
I’ve wondered about insurance companies wielding the power of payment. As in “if you don’t get vaccinated, if we don’t have a record of your vaccination, we won’t pay for any covid treatment or will pay reduce amount.”
If this latter thing would happen, I personally would sit on DH and stick that vaccine into his arm.
I heard in Singapore insurers won't pay if you aren't vaccinated.
iris lilies
12-23-21, 12:20pm
I heard in Singapore insurers won't pay if you aren't vaccinated.
My DH Is free to make decisions about his body and health, but when it comes to our finances, nope, stupidity is not allowed. He may not risk our assets by a long hospital stay. So I guess that’s my line in the sand.
Local news here said that in one of our rural areas ambulances type services have been so busy transferring patients to various hospitals with available beds or ICUs because of overflow that they've had to delay some emergency services calls.
Local news here said that in one of our rural areas ambulances type services have been so busy transferring patients to various hospitals with available beds or ICUs because of overflow that they've had to delay some emergency services calls.
I have always thought it stupid that once you are admitted to a hospital you can be well enough to ride to another hospital in the car of a family member but they insist you be transported via ambulance. It is a way for the medical establishment to make money.
I have always thought it stupid that once you are admitted to a hospital you can be well enough to ride to another hospital in the car of a family member but they insist you be transported via ambulance. It is a way for the medical establishment to make money.
I'm not sure how well IVs and intubation units and other life supports travel in cars. An example of how your 80% vaccination rate isn't working unlike you suggested earlier.
I'm not sure how well IVs and intubation units and other life supports travel in cars. An example of how your 80% vaccination rate isn't working unlike you suggested earlier.
The situations in which I or family members have wished to transport people were pre-covid and did not involve IVs or intubation units. I would be surprised if every covid-19 patient looking for a bed is hooked up this way.
I have always thought it stupid that once you are admitted to a hospital you can be well enough to ride to another hospital in the car of a family member but they insist you be transported via ambulance. It is a way for the medical establishment to make money.
Perhaps you should offer your expertise to the people who write the medical transport protocols. You clearly are an expert on such things.
Perhaps you should offer your expertise to the people who write the medical transport protocols. You clearly are an expert on such things.
They wouldn't listen to me because they make money off the existing paradigm.
They wouldn't listen to me because they make money off the existing paradigm.
That’s the beautiful thing about conspiracy theories. Closed loop systems.
iris lilies
12-23-21, 4:03pm
Local news here said that in one of our rural areas ambulances type services have been so busy transferring patients to various hospitals with available beds or ICUs because of overflow that they've had to delay some emergency services calls.
The City of St. louis deals with that by failing to answer 60% of 911 calls at all.
If you head off the business at the beginning, you will have less business. win/win.
rosarugosa
12-23-21, 7:03pm
It's a horrid idea no matter who is proposing it.
I don't think it's a horrid idea at all, as long as an exception is made for those who cannot be vaccinated due to a valid medical reason.
Now that omicron has been the dominant variant for a while in the US, Biden has finally decided to lift travel restrictions from southern African countries, but not immediately. He is out of touch and always trailing behind the reality on the ground.
From Israel, which has tried all the "best practices" of the establishment, an editorial finally admitting that vaccines and boosters won't stop covid. It will end when we all get infected and develop natural immunity:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/omicron-wave-will-only-end-after-masses-are-infected-analysis/ar-AASdgJF?cvid=dbb236d61ebd4fa1f5bb5abefddf9374&ocid=winp1taskbar
ApatheticNoMore
12-29-21, 1:34pm
And by then a certain % of the population will have long covid and permanent disability, plus perhaps other long term damage and dysfunction to the brain and immune system.
Nah it's worth trying to avoid, but that's trying within reason (sure wearing an N95/KN95 mask when one can do so), but most people can't *perfectly* avoid it either, and some less than others, not if one has to work etc. (and yes I often work from home, but bf hasn't been able to). At a certain point it's almost like trying to avoid pollution, yea that stuff will kill you, take 2 years off your life, but have to breath, just one doesn't go and sniff car exhaust either.
From Israel, which has tried all the "best practices" of the establishment, an editorial finally admitting that vaccines and boosters won't stop covid. It will end when we all get infected and develop natural immunity:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/omicron-wave-will-only-end-after-masses-are-infected-analysis/ar-AASdgJF?cvid=dbb236d61ebd4fa1f5bb5abefddf9374&ocid=winp1taskbar
Hmmm. I wonder if that's why they're testing a fourth shot.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/israel-tests-4th-covid-vaccine-dose-awaits-ministry-green-light-2021-12-27/
Concerned about the risk of a sudden surge in hospitalizations, a ministry expert panel last week recommended Israel become the first country to offer a fourth jab to medical workers and those over 60 or with compromised immune systems.
Hmmm. I wonder if that's why they're testing a fourth shot.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/israel-tests-4th-covid-vaccine-dose-awaits-ministry-green-light-2021-12-27/
Concerned about the risk of a sudden surge in hospitalizations, a ministry expert panel last week recommended Israel become the first country to offer a fourth jab to medical workers and those over 60 or with compromised immune systems.
As mentioned, I referred to an editorial. It is from a thought leader, not the Israeli government, but someone who has seen Israel try everything and applied a little common sense to the situation after trying more of the same vaccine based approach (boosting) has failed.
With all the scary news, I was expecting to see lots of masks when I ran errands today. Out of scores of people, I only saw a few - mostly on older people. So many disconnects with this virus saga but I can see why after a while, one decides to just move on with life. Que sera...
The message seems to be life sucks (here are all the restrictions we will slap on you) and then you die (because the restrictions will not stop covid anyways). That being the case I am thinking about parachuting when the weather gets warmer. Why not live life dangerously when it is so precarious?
I went skydiving once, 25ish years ago. It was AMAZING. I did a tandem dive with an instructor strapped to my back. Immediately afterwards I was ready to go again.* The next day I was planning to do the lessons necessary to do a solo dive. The next day I was slightly less motivated but still excited about it. And so on and so forth until about two weeks later when I realized that I had no desire ever to do it again. But I still remember it as an AMAZING experience that I am incredibly glad I did once. The place we went (just north of NYC) was highly recommended so I have no reason to think that it was unsafe in any way.
Fun fact, I probably would have enjoyed it more if I'd been wearing a face mask. As soon as we fell out of the plane I started shouting "F*** F*** F*** F*** F*** F***" nonstop until he pulled the cord for the parachute. As fast as one is falling it's actually somewhat difficult to exhale if one's mouth is open. I likely would have been less freaked out if I'd kept my mouth shut. Or if I'd been wearing a mask to slow the airflow jamming into my mouth.
*Of course it didn't hurt my opinion of skydiving that the instructor strapped to my back was a super duper cutie!
4147
F**k sky diving. I hate heights.
Now cave diving…:D
JaneV2.0
12-30-21, 11:39pm
I see two super-duper cuties in that snapshot. :D
I see two super-duper cuties in that snapshot. :D
Awww. You are so kind. The super duper cutie is wearing a purple shirt. I'm just the sort of cutie.
Awww. You are so kind. The super duper cutie is wearing a purple shirt. I'm just the sort of cutie.
I think you are way cuter than the other guy!
iris lilies
12-31-21, 9:18am
They are both cute. Now let’s move on.
haha, kidding. That was an interesting first-hand experience of sky diving JP.
happystuff
12-31-21, 10:18am
Love the sky-diving experience! Thanks so much for sharing. And, yes, to super duper cuties!
My parish has cancelled Sunday school and coffee hour for the entire month of January. We’re still streaming services. I expect some of the older folks might go back to staying home for a few weeks at least. We don’t have pews, chairs instead. So it’s quite easy to go back to seating with more space between family groups.
I'm going to wait out the coming surge, if any, before venturing out to get my booster. After all, I'm safe here in the bunker. :~)
I'm going to wait out the coming surge, if any, before venturing out to get my booster. After all, I'm safe here in the bunker. :~)
Are you still without a car?
I pretty much only go into dive shops these days or Walgreens for allergy meds. Amazon for everything including groceries.
ApatheticNoMore
12-31-21, 3:30pm
The message seems to be life sucks (here are all the restrictions we will slap on you) and then you die (because the restrictions will not stop covid anyways). That being the case I am thinking about parachuting when the weather gets warmer. Why not live life dangerously when it is so precarious?
because parachuting sounds about as appealing as being strung to a torture rack. It's like "hey why not try waterboarding if life is so precarious? wouldn't you like to know what it is like to be waterboarded before you die? Wouldn't it be a pity to die before one has experienced waterboarding?". Uh no, no, it really would not. I mean I could see getting into drugs, if one had no concern for consequences, at least that sounds like fun.
I think skydiving would be fun, just risky. Drugs are not my thing.
Today I went to the supermarket. What a mob scene! It was so packed. Covid obviously has not cut down on the population much.
iris lilies
12-31-21, 6:01pm
Here in the lower Midwest we’re having our last very nice day of balmy weather. December has been crazy nice weather.
I went all the way out to the country today to attend a bulldog meet up that was held outdoors. 15 bulldogs milling around, can’t get better than that.
With the case counts going so high we’re not going to be doing indoor dining again until things calm back down.
With the case counts going so high we’re not going to be doing indoor dining again until things calm back down.
Yep. A non-vaxxed friend had wanted to go out to dinner after I got back from my FL trip. Cook County (where Chicago is) mandated vax cards must be shown after 1/3 for indoor dining, visiting the gym, etc. I’ll have to show mine when I go back to the gym. So no dining out for her.
Are you still without a car?
I pretty much only go into dive shops these days or Walgreens for allergy meds. Amazon for everything including groceries.
Yeah, but Uber will do the trick.
I have no excuse about the car. I can't say I miss it much.
I'm working on the Amazon Fresh order I'll have delivered in a few days when the snow is gone.
My daughter and I are having dinner, indoors, with our next-door neighbors tonight. We've all been involuntarily quarantined here for about a week due to the severe weather event, and neither household has seen anyone else during this time. Nonetheless, all parties involved took Covid tests about 30 mins ago.
We'd dine outside, but it is currently 20 degrees outside, and winds should pick up to 30+ knots this evening.
Fun times.
All the caution will just prolong the time until we get past this, because eventually everyone will get it and then we'll be done. Yes, no escaping it even in quarantine:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/30/health/new-zealand-covid-facility-transmission/index.html
because parachuting sounds about as appealing as being strung to a torture rack. It's like "hey why not try waterboarding if life is so precarious? wouldn't you like to know what it is like to be waterboarded before you die? Wouldn't it be a pity to die before one has experienced waterboarding?". Uh no, no, it really would not. I mean I could see getting into drugs, if one had no concern for consequences, at least that sounds like fun.
Pretty much my take on a lot of extreme sports, and well put.
Psilocybin was fun, and having a renaissance, I understand.
All the caution will just prolong the time until we get past this, because eventually everyone will get it and then we'll be done. Yes, no escaping it even in quarantine:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/30/health/new-zealand-covid-facility-transmission/index.html
Yes, we are being bad bad antisocial people by protecting our 80+ year old neighbors and keeping them from catching Covid now, at a time when medical resources are extremely scarce here, and transport nearly impossible due to the weather.
If we cared, we'd simply put them out on an ice floe and be done with it.
My mistake.
All the caution will just prolong the time until we get past this, because eventually everyone will get it and then we'll be done. Yes, no escaping it even in quarantine:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/30/health/new-zealand-covid-facility-transmission/index.html
I sent that link to a couple of friends. I may go back to disinfecting my groceries...:help:
My daughter and I are having dinner, indoors, with our next-door neighbors tonight. We've all been involuntarily quarantined here for about a week due to the severe weather event, and neither household has seen anyone else during this time. Nonetheless, all parties involved took Covid tests about 30 mins ago.
We'd dine outside, but it is currently 20 degrees outside, and winds should pick up to 30+ knots this evening.
Fun times.
I don't doubt that elites have access to tests that ordinary people can't get (just as the First World has access to initial doses the Third World can't get - thus all the variants). Equity? What's that?
I don't doubt that elites have access to tests that ordinary people can't get (just as the First World has access to initial doses the Third World can't get - thus all the variants). Equity? What's that?
**** you.
sweetana3
12-31-21, 7:53pm
When replies devolve into cursing, it might be better to utilize the "ignore" function on this board. And I wish quotes were not used in replies because it shows me the content I am trying to avoid.
Better for me to ignore this whole topic since it is not really valid what another state is doing when I live in the uneducated Midwest.
I don't doubt that elites have access to tests that ordinary people can't get (just as the First World has access to initial doses the Third World can't get - thus all the variants). Equity? What's that?
I guess everyone with an Amazon account and a credit card qualifies as an elite then.
Yep. A non-vaxxed friend had wanted to go out to dinner after I got back from my FL trip. Cook County (where Chicago is) mandated vax cards must be shown after 1/3 for indoor dining, visiting the gym, etc. I’ll have to show mine when I go back to the gym. So no dining out for her.
I just checked and our county had 461 positives yesterday. That’s roughly one out of every 600 people who live here. In just one day. Multiply that out over a week and roughly one of every hundred residents is infected.
I just checked and our county had 461 positives yesterday. That’s roughly one out of every 600 people who live here. In just one day. Multiply that out over a week and roughly one of every hundred residents is infected.
Excellent math skills. Now here's another question - what percent of the population do you think have to get infected before restrictions go away?
Say 100% of people are positive - is there any point then to quarantining or masks? What if the positivity rate is 97%? Or 80%? Or 50%?
ETA Here is a current list of positivity rates by state and DC:
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-covid-19-test-positivity-rates-july-14.html
Depends on how full the hospitals are. Death rates needlessly go up when hospitals can't effectively treat everyone that needs treatment. Even in a highly vaxxed and boosted county like mine a 25% or 50% positivity rate would likely overwhelm the hospitals. Especially if the lower vaxxed areas of the state had anywhere near that kind of positivity rate since they would be needing exponentially more hospital space than they have and would be trying to send patients here.
Feeling so bad for our neighbor today. There was an ambulance at their home a couple of days ago which isn't a rare sight. He has been having issues for awhile and in the last year the caregiving has really started to take a toll on her. She called an ambulance for herself a month ago because he was not able to drive. All ER's were full and they advised they could take her but she would be waiting hours. It was best to wait until she could get into her doctor the next day which she did but it really shook her that had it been urgent for him he would not have the care he needed. Well..... the ambulance was for her and I just found out today that she died of Covid. They have no kids so I don't know where he is going to end up.
Had only a nodding relationship for years. Her husband (older) was kind of the grumpy old "get off my lawn" neighbor to the kids. Since the pandemic we had talked more and more at the mailbox since we had caregiving to our husbands in common. This last summer we started having end of the cul-de-sac happy hours on our lawn chairs in the street. Other neighbors began joining in, BYOB and sharing snacks. She was sooooooo wicked funny. I felt bad that so much time had gone by without realizing what a gem she was. So glad we were able to give her a break from the stress of caregiving if only for an hour or two. This hits hard.
happystuff
1-1-22, 10:03pm
I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend.
It is hard to watch that unfold in another and yet not be able to help. So sorry for all.
Teacher Terry
1-1-22, 11:34pm
Simple, so sorry for the loss of your friend. One of mine died on Xmas day and it’s definitely hard.
iris lilies
1-2-22, 11:46am
Simplemind, that must be shocking and sad. So sorry!
Here comes Big Brother - covid sniffing dogs in public schools - I kid you not.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/massachusetts-becomes-first-us-state-enlist-covid-sniffing-canines-180978236/
When bedbugs were all in the headlines a number of years ago I half seriously suggested to SO that his hotel employer get a bedbug sniffing dog to hang out in the lobby and sniff the bags of people checking in. If the dog alerted them the front desk clerk would politely inform the guest that the hotel was oversold but that they had a room reserved for them at the hotel across the street.
But seriously, if dogs could be trained to alert to covid on a large scale (doubtful) this could be quite helpful and in the long run far cheaper than massive quantities of single use rapid tests. Those could be saved for use on the people the dog alerted on.
Here comes Big Brother - covid sniffing dogs in public schools - I kid you not.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/massachusetts-becomes-first-us-state-enlist-covid-sniffing-canines-180978236/
Scent dogs are great. I’ve used them to save lives for decades. My current bloodhound has 25+ saves to his name. Everyone loves him. His name is Elvis.
Seems a reasonable use of the dogs if this is something they can reliably scent.
iris lilies
1-5-22, 12:20am
Bedbugs invaded libraries, and some people on our administrative staff thought we should test to see if our library had them.
NOOOOOOOO! Because guess what! They would have been found! And then major upheavel would result.
NO I think not.
But I no longer pull in sofas from the alley. I think fondly of two alley sofas I had over the years, One a cool old 1960s sectional that was grimy but retro-cool. The other was a very comfortable big thing. Once in a while I will see mattresses or other upholstered items in an alley with a sign that says “BEDBUGS” Which clues anyone in don’t take it into your house.
happystuff
1-5-22, 11:12am
Scent dogs are great. I’ve used them to save lives for decades. My current bloodhound has 25+ saves to his name. Everyone loves him. His name is Elvis.
Seems a reasonable use of the dogs if this is something they can reliably scent.
My best friend has done years of scent training in the various areas - live, cadaver, etc. It is amazing what a good dog/person team can do! Dog is older now and only does the scent work for "fun".
Some experts are saying we can't keep boosting people every few months, as it will bankrupt us. Ya think?
Some experts are saying we can't keep boosting people every few months, as it will bankrupt us. Ya think?
I wonder how “some experts” would compare the vaccination program to the stealth bomber program and which is more likely to bankrupt us.
EDIT: My morning news said that repeated boosters from the same manufacturer may start to lose effectiveness. Going by a six month schedule I suspect things will change by the time I might come due again.
iris lilies
1-5-22, 2:27pm
You people are just plebs to worry about gubmnt. It just creates money. I’m almost to the point of not even thinking about it anymore, it’s just such a shit show. There’s a seems to be an endless stream of gubmnt money And I plan to be dead by the time the piper must be paid.
You people are just plebs to worry about gubmnt. It just creates money. I’m almost to the point of not even thinking about it anymore, it’s just such a shit show. There’s a seems to be an endless stream of gubmnt money And I plan to be dead by the time the piper must be paid.
I'm not worried. Just discussing, assuming I am one of your shit show plebs to which you refer.
4154
Teacher Terry
1-5-22, 2:58pm
Now France has another variant that’s less contagious than omicron but they don’t know yet how deadly.
My dentist just sent out an email that all patients will have to show proof of vaccination to be admitted inside their office.
I’m sure you’ve heard of what’s going on between the Chicago Teachers Union and the Chicago Public Schools.
The head of the CTu is named Jesse Sharkey. If that’s not a perfect last name for a union president, I don’t know what is. Especially in corrupt Chicago. :D
My son works as a server in a restaurant where you are required to show proof of vaccination in order to enter. He's the vaccine bouncer, and he said he's surprised at how many people show cards with only one vaccination on it (about 30%).
Now France has another variant that’s less contagious than omicron but they don’t know yet how deadly.
It came to France from Cameroon, a country without adequate access to initial doses of the vaccine because First World countries were hogging vaccines for boosters. The World Health Organization warned about this - and was ignored. Delta came from India. They warned about it again. Omicron came from South Africa. They're still warning about it. What are the chances the have's will listen this time? I think there's a zero percent chance.
https://pix11.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/25/2015/07/good-humor-lets-you-tweet-for-ice-cream-657x360-3.png
SO’s bowling league cancelled for tonight because of the infection rate. Half the teams didn’t want to participate.
This variant is sweeping through the population quickly. It looks like the world is back to cocooning, and it's the perfect time of year for that.
I was in another town's library the other day because they don't have a mask mandate. They had a great sign up in the bathroom:
Keep calm and wash your hands
This variant is sweeping through the population quickly. It looks like the world is back to cocooning, and it's the perfect time of year for that.
It does seem that way. We did outdoor dining New Year’s Eve and a normally really busy restaurant was less than half capacity the whole time we were there and the whole area of town with lots of restaurants/bars was more like an average weeknight level busy, not like New Year’s Eve busy.
They were interviewing a doc from the ucsf medical system on pod save America yesterday and his estimate, based on positive tests in the Bay Area counties was that 1 out of every 15-20 people walking around San Francisco is probably an asymptomatic positive. If that is accurate this will burn through a large chunk of people really quickly. High vaxxed areas will get through it ok but other places are likely to see the healthcare systems overwhelmed.
A good chunk of employees in my region are out. Some are asymptomatic but others feel quite sick though not to the point of hospitalization. Vaccination and boosting has not stopped the infection or reduced its severity from what I have observed at work.
My bank sent out an email to call before you go to a branch because it might be closed due to lack of staffing.
So when we all have it I wonder how people will do things like buy food. I don't know anyone who is self-sufficient when it comes to food. Will everyone sit in quarantine and no one work?
So when we all have it I wonder how people will do things like buy food. I don't know anyone who is self-sufficient when it comes to food. Will everyone sit in quarantine and no one work?
Or operate a school. It's not just the kids who will be out, but also teachers, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, etc.
Read this article today about hospitalizations in my county. We're the highest vaxxed county in California with 90% of every single person vaxxed and many boosted and the 'hospitalization' rates for covid are now showing a doubling of covid hospitalizations in just one day. But when the health director for the county dug into it he found that almost all of the increase was from asymptomatic people who were at the hospital for non-covid reasons but were tested because everyone is tested. So yeah, being vaxxed and boosted is key to avoiding serious illness from omicron.
https://www.sfgate.com/coronavirus/article/California-COVID-hospitalizations-overcount-Marin-16748226.php
Anecdotally a friend of my sister's that works HR back office for a large hospital system in San Diego says that about 25% of staff are currently out because they have tested positive despite being asymptomatic. All are vaccinated because it's a work requirement. If that can be extrapolated to the community at large then this will indeed pass through rather quickly. And relatively painlessly for highly vaxxed communities.
The governor of NY is trying to get reporting to distinguish between hospitalized for covid and hospitalized for something else but positive for covid. Since hospitals get more money for covid patients I wish her luck.
Teacher Terry
1-6-22, 12:27am
Masks are required to enter businesses but no one is enforcing it. They are afraid of their employees getting abused. Most people are complying. Vaccine cards are not required to enter anything.
On Tuesday in downtown Portland both Starbucks and Chipotle were closed because of staffing issues. We went to three places looking for something to eat at lunchtime and none of them were open.
No problem out in the suburban towns finding restaurants open.
as of yesterday, Portland back to all stores and restaurants needing masks to enter.
People are coming back to work after a 5 day quarantine but not wearing a mask for 5 more days. And if you have a negative covid test before returning to work, why would you even be mandated to wear one? It's illogical so no wonder people are ignoring this.
The Chicago teachers are a bunch of entitled idiots. They think they can choose not to work? Then they should get fired. Health care professionals and grocery store workers don’t get to pick and choose, among many others.
happystuff
1-6-22, 11:32am
Or operate a school. It's not just the kids who will be out, but also teachers, bus drivers, cafeteria workers, etc.
We get Covid status emails from the superintendent and the rates have been climbing. Last report was 8 staff and 22 positives, and they stopped sharing the "quarantine" numbers. With two night and two day custodians per school (middle and elementary), we currently are down one custodian per school. Apparently they were also down a lunch person yesterday and there was NO ONE in the cafeteria to hand out 8th grade lunches!!! Big mess, but a custodian saw the situation, used his walkie and THREE administrators showed up. Funny how it took 3 administrators to do the work of 1 regular lunch person. LOL.
Anyway, waiting to see if we go virtual here soon or not.
Why are there so many covid hospitalizations? In part because homeless people with covid go to the hospital because they have nowhere else to quarantine. In part because dialysis patients with covid can't go to their regular dialysis centers.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/reporting-change-coming-on-covid-19-hospitalizations/ar-AASvxFc?ocid=winp1taskbar
Congratulations on 500 pages.
ApatheticNoMore
1-6-22, 6:12pm
doctors offices are not so readily letting people return to work after sick symptoms or positive tests. but what if they cleared after awhile with a negative lab test? lol, people can't get lab tests at this point, there's not enough supply. maybe should have thought of that one. I had to join a drug store rewards program just to "hoard" a total of two home tests. Yea nickle and dimed with this nonsense in a pandemic. :doh:
In Rhode Island they are bringing covid positive nurses to work in short staffed hospitals ... but covid negative nurses cannot work if they are not vaccinated. They have all been fired. It is not about safety but about forcing people to do what the government wants them to.
https://thenewdaily.com.au/life/science/2021/07/25/conspiracy-theorists-lack-critical-thinking/
frugal-one
1-6-22, 11:12pm
The Chicago teachers are a bunch of entitled idiots. They think they can choose not to work? Then they should get fired. Health care professionals and grocery store workers don’t get to pick and choose, among many others.
Don’t you work from home?
Don’t you work from home?
Nope. That was the previous job that ended in March after 8 months.
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