View Full Version : Conavirus......
Dado I am glad people are social distancing in stores in your area. Social distancing is much more effective than mask wearing at stopping the spread of covid. My neighbor was just telling me how only N95 masks specially fitted to your face stop the virus. But so many extroverts want to get close to other people, even strangers, the virus be damned.
iris lilies
6-14-20, 5:03pm
Jeppy wont like this, but starting last week I have been going out more and also seeing people.
Saturday we had the bulldog delivery team come to drop off our new dog and sit on our patio for two hours talking about her needs and likes. We were outside and mindful of being 6 feet from each other.Then we went out to the country to visit our friends and when we were out there we stayed outside the whole time and we’re pretty mindful of 6 feet apart.
Later that day or friend came over for Dinner and we did eat inside so that was a not good social interaction.
this morning we went to our usual coffee group but sat outside at the park with our takeout coffee‘s. Next Sunday we’re gonna have coffee in our yard.
Today DH and I went to Lowe’s but stayed only outside looking at plants. I would say more than half the people shopping had masks on and the checkout people had masks. When we left there we went to a local nursery where same thing, many masks were worn.
IL I am like you with many visits outdoors. I saw my parents and brother today in their yard about 10 feet apart. But I went to a store yesterday and the line was so long it went way beyond the tape marks, around the corner out of sight of the security guard, and people were a foot apart or so. They wore masks but that did not make me feel safe. I will not go to that store again.
"Today radiation and I went to Lowe’s but stayed only outside looking at plants. I would say more than half the people shopping had masks on and the checkout people had masks. When we left there we went to a local nursery where same thing, many masks were worn."
Is "Radiation" your invisible friend? Perhaps the one who "lights up the room?" :devil:
Teacher Terry
6-14-20, 7:10pm
We wear masks and stay back from others. Everyone working inside is masked. When my husband is working in California outside at a construction site everyone wears a mask.
happystuff
6-14-20, 7:33pm
We wear masks and stay back from others. Everyone working inside is masked. When my husband is working in California outside at a construction site everyone wears a mask.
So far as I have been out lately, people in my area have been safe and considerate to others - wearing masks and practicing social distancing.
iris lilies
6-14-20, 7:37pm
"Today radiation and I went to Lowe’s but stayed only outside looking at plants. I would say more than half the people shopping had masks on and the checkout people had masks. When we left there we went to a local nursery where same thing, many masks were worn."
Is "Radiation" your invisible friend? Perhaps the one who "lights up the room?" :devil:
My voice translator errors are really funny anymore. They make me laugh. Even though they are irritating.
My voice translator errors are really funny anymore. They make me laugh. Even though they are irritating.
I like videos with automated CC personally--near constant bloopers!
ApatheticNoMore
6-15-20, 1:15am
So far as I have been out lately, people in my area have been safe and considerate to others - wearing masks and practicing social distancing.
here too.
We just got back from vacation in Gordonsville, VA where apparently masks are optional! Not really, but even some of the workers at the Food Lion weren't wearing them. Our vacation place was very careful and we felt comfortable- lots of masks and people distancing. My husband did not play golf at a place because he felt they weren't using sensible protocols. Today we are scheduled for haircuts and I plan to keep my mask on....not sure if the owner will be wearing one....
I think this editorial on education in the covid era was spot on:
https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/06/16/open-schools-without-masks-or-social-distancing/
I think this editorial on education in the covid era was spot on:
https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/06/16/open-schools-without-masks-or-social-distancing/
What are Ehrhard's credentials? I wouldn't trust the average attorney with my health, personally.
I question his conclusions. Children, even infants, have died from this--maybe not in Massachusetts, but elsewhere, and that bit about carbon dioxide has been debunked over and over. Adults can and do suffer from COVID, often with lingering symptoms. A middle-aged friend of a friend has been incapacitated for a couple of months so far.
ApatheticNoMore
6-16-20, 3:48pm
A middle-aged friend of a friend has been incapacitated for a couple of months so far.
Everyday I watch the local stats, everyday some middle age person without pre-existing conditions dies. Anyway death isn't the only thing to fear as the odds may not be that high, disability is often the REALLY scary thing and I don't even think we know the odds there.
What are Ehrhard's credentials? I wouldn't trust the average attorney with my health, personally.
I question his conclusions. Children, even infants, have died from this--maybe not in Massachusetts, but elsewhere, and that bit about carbon dioxide has been debunked over and over. Adults can and do suffer from COVID, often with lingering symptoms. A middle-aged friend of a friend has been incapacitated for a couple of months so far.
I think medical professionals want to medicalize everything to make their profession more important. At some point you need to use common sense. Another stupid idea our state has is if a child becomes sick in a childcare center make him or her sit alone in a glass box.
I sympathize with the view that there's a tendency to overmedicalize everything, but I can't really argue with the unprecedented scope of this pandemic. And I've heard of too many middle-aged people with lingering aftereffects of COVID--with the unimaginable medical costs--to get too sanguine about it.
A picture is developing that the most efficient way to contract CV19 is inside, with no mask and no social distancing, in an environment with lots of sustained yelling, singing, coughing, and hugging. Like church, or a Trump rally. I'll surely be avoiding those venues.
A picture is developing that the most efficient way to contract CV19 is inside, with no mask and no social distancing, in an environment with lots of sustained yelling, singing, coughing, and hugging. Like church, or a Trump rally. I'll surely be avoiding those venues.
Or maybe dancing cheek to cheek on a cruise ship singing along to the lyrics.
I think medical professionals want to medicalize everything to make their profession more important. At some point you need to use common sense. Another stupid idea our state has is if a child becomes sick in a childcare center make him or her sit alone in a glass box.
Please don't ever again go to a doctor or talk to a Nurse ever again. You just use your common sense to fight illness because we'll just "medicalize" everything. Wonder why we all got extensive education, do continued education and research to stay current? Obviously, we are the stupid ones.
You are beyond belief.>:(
My husband and I will do what's legal, so will do whatever it takes to keep each other out of trouble, but both of us have agreed that we'd rather just die than go the hospital these days.
Some of us have been mistreated by medical personnel in the past, including things like patient abuse and sexual assault, so I guess people's mileage will vary.
Anyway, I hope everyone on the boards stays healthy! That would be a wonderful thing. And I hope that if they cannot stay healthy, they have medical care available if they want it. That would also be a wonderful thing.
What are Ehrhard's credentials?
He's a local Republican bankruptcy lawyer from my town who's run for state senate and lost. He has no medical credentials. But he did make sure to share with my town's Facebook page the fact that he got published.
I am also doing everything legal but chafe at the micromanagement. Businesses should be allowed to open. At risk people can stay home. No one is forcing anyone to go to a restaurant, get their nails done, or get a tattoo.
My husband and I will do what's legal, so will do whatever it takes to keep each other out of trouble, but both of us have agreed that we'd rather just die than go the hospital these days.
Some of us have been mistreated by medical personnel in the past, including things like patient abuse and sexual assault, so I guess people's mileage will vary.
Anyway, I hope everyone on the boards stays healthy! That would be a wonderful thing. And I hope that if they cannot stay healthy, they have medical care available if they want it. That would also be a wonderful thing.
There are some things worse than death, and in my mind months of intrusive medical care is one of those things. Of course, this should be entirely a personal choice.
flowerseverywhere
6-17-20, 11:17pm
I am also doing everything legal but chafe at the micromanagement. Businesses should be allowed to open. At risk people can stay home. No one is forcing anyone to go to a restaurant, get their nails done, or get a tattoo.
but people have to work at even the highest risk businesses as they will no longer get unemployment. Pregnant women, asthmatics, or maybe an elderly parent living with them. Perhaps a type one diabetic who was born insulin deficient. Maybe a cancer survivor who is susceptible. It’s either that or risk starvation, homelessness and losing health insurance.
But a lot of the at risk probably are just a burden and need to be culled. Kinda like Sarah Palin and her death panel she claimed Obamacare had. Ironic?
ApatheticNoMore
6-17-20, 11:47pm
but people have to work at even the highest risk businesses as they will no longer get unemployment.
right guaranteed-income and then let's talk about what noone is forced to do, until then it's meaningless, people have to work those nail salons. But hey many people try not to even see the working people that provide them with their services. That's why all the focus merely on their consumer choice. They don't see them. They like servants in truth.
Look we may need to go to the grocery and other things, but really noone needs anyone to do their nails or a tattoo, if you really have to you can buy a bottle of nail polish at the drug store.
Sure, boxed in as we are, the choices are bad any way you look at it, it's economic pain or viral deaths and probably BOTH in the end, because we have no safety net, and we have no economic plan, but also primarily because we have no real pandemic response, so everything is bad and going to continue to be so, in this purgatory of endless covid, because other countries actually have a real downward slope and we have a plateau at a pretty high level. So then whatever, my duty as I see it is merely not to spread it to the extent I am humanly able (yes of course I hope not to catch it).
Teacher Terry
6-18-20, 12:01am
I agree that some things are worse than death but my family doesn’t agree. My plan is to stay home and hope they don’t notice if things get to bad. My dad was a lesson in that. My kids saw that and I don’t understand why they think that.
but people have to work at even the highest risk businesses as they will no longer get unemployment. Pregnant women, asthmatics, or maybe an elderly parent living with them. Perhaps a type one diabetic who was born insulin deficient. Maybe a cancer survivor who is susceptible. It’s either that or risk starvation, homelessness and losing health insurance.
But a lot of the at risk probably are just a burden and need to be culled. Kinda like Sarah Palin and her death panel she claimed Obamacare had. Ironic?
+1000. No one is really going to miss all those brown people working at meat packing plants where the covid is infecting almost everyone... /snark
It's fascinating to see how the republicans have gone from being the party of life that was worried about death panels to the ugly "they were going to die soon so it's not a big deal" party that they have become. Of course no one expected them to so quickly abandon fiscal responsibility, but just a couple of years ago they did just that so why should we be surprised that now they have abandoned their pro-life stance. The only good thing out of all of this awfulness is that average people aren't impressed with the pathetic republican fake platitudes. Poll numbers from pretty much every poll show Biden winning by a staggering amount unless the republican efforts at voter suppression and deceit are successful.
but people have to work at even the highest risk businesses as they will no longer get unemployment. Pregnant women, asthmatics, or maybe an elderly parent living with them. Perhaps a type one diabetic who was born insulin deficient. Maybe a cancer survivor who is susceptible. It’s either that or risk starvation, homelessness and losing health insurance.
But a lot of the at risk probably are just a burden and need to be culled. Kinda like Sarah Palin and her death panel she claimed Obamacare had. Ironic?
At the reopened businesses I have frequented in two states returning to work is optional. (I have asked.) Many places have reduced hours due to reduced staff. Some states let you continue to collect unemployment if recalled to work and you cannot return. I support this.
You are making the assumption that it's okay to have a two tiered system where if you are essential you have to go to work, sucks to be you, but if you aren't you get to stay home and get paid. This is especially unfair to many poorly paid front line workers making less than they could be if they were laid off and collecting $600 plus unemployment plus whatever they make working off the books. It hits minority workers harder, as most of those allowed to work from home are more affluent and more likely to be white. Keep defending the current inequitable system and accusing people who question it of wanting death panels if it makes you feel morally superior, but you're not.
flowerseverywhere
6-18-20, 5:17am
+1000. No one is really going to miss all those brown people working at meat packing plants where the covid is infecting almost everyone... /snark
.
absolutely. One of the essential businesses per Trump to keep the factory processed cheap burgers flowing to Mickey D’s. In Minnesota one of my siblings lived and worked near some meatpacking plants. They would occasionally have raids and round up illegal immigrants. Who of course have no access to the routine health care citizens do so are higher risk individuals to start with. Stopping in a grocery store or getting gas exposes everyone else. Same in Delaware per another friend. Being low paid, they also were prone to live in multi family housing. Obviously living in a detached house with even a small yard substantially isolated you from breathing a sick persons air in your neighborhood, or touching a surface they touched. NYC is the perfect horrendous example of that. .
so it’s a gigantic mess with no real solutions now that the horse is out of the barn without any attempt to close the door. We had no early testing and contract tracing. Imagine how Tulsa feels about to be invaded by screaming hoards with no face masks packed cheek to cheek from all over. 19,000 plus all the workers. Plus all the outside people. So many no choice in the matter workers may be going to the slaughter as they police, feed, provide security and house the rally goers. Who will then return home to their families.
rosarugosa
6-18-20, 6:12am
In MA, we are following CDC guidelines with a phased re-opening as the improved metrics allow, and our numbers continue to move in the right direction. The states that re-opened everything all at once with no regard for guidelines or metrics are seeing surges in their numbers. I'm glad to be living in MA and more than happy to eat at home and do my own nails.
Rosa you may be fine not going to these businesses, but many of them would prefer to open. Some will have to permanently close, wiping out the lifetime savings people invested in them. Something like a third of restaurants may never recover. The jobs in them will not come back.
As you are retired I am assuming you are over 60 so I am glad you are being cautious. You should feel under no obligation to go to businesses, but others should be free to do so.
Small local businesses are being disproportionately hurt. A future in which most new jobs are as delivery drivers for Amazon is not rosy.
Teacher Terry
6-18-20, 11:38am
Rosa, your state is being smart.
Iceland seems to have a handle on things:
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/iceland-reopens-coronavirus/index.html
Iceland seems to have a handle on things:
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/iceland-reopens-coronavirus/index.html
They're taking it seriously, and using science.
Far, far from what is happening here.
Teacher Terry
6-18-20, 12:31pm
Now they are able to reopen and e normal. Well worth a small sacrifice.
One quarter of Texas surge hospitalizations right now are under 30. We are set to make a road trip there in a week and are wondering if they will have to shut things down again.
I’m doomed, the Italians have been laying tile now for three weeks straight, they took off last Sunday for a soccer game. There have been at least three of them in all parts of the house. And I’m getting pretty tired of the music and singing. There are 8 landscapers that have been here for a week, at least they are outside. And two plumbers for two weeks. The cabinet maker is behind, so we wil be exposed to those guys in a few weeks. And of coarse multiple delivery guys, electricians, and some I can’t remember.
But the city is not doing inspections inside, so I don’t know when I’ll get the final inspections done. The plumber is the only inspection I’ll need, he said so far they have asked him for pictures and gave approval on those.
And I made two trips to West Palm that is a hotspot in the state to buy a boat. And the wife flew to Ohio last week.
We are staying away from the grandkids till this is over.
rosarugosa
6-18-20, 4:32pm
Rosa you may be fine not going to these businesses, but many of them would prefer to open. Some will have to permanently close, wiping out the lifetime savings people invested in them. Something like a third of restaurants may never recover. The jobs in them will not come back.
As you are retired I am assuming you are over 60 so I am glad you are being cautious. You should feel under no obligation to go to businesses, but others should be free to do so.
Small local businesses are being disproportionately hurt. A future in which most new jobs are as delivery drivers for Amazon is not rosy.
I know and love some small business owners, and I think it's terrible what this pandemic is doing to businesses in general. I don't see it as anyone's fault though; it's a pandemic and of course it sucks. I cannot live in a complete bubble even though I'm retired, and a spike in Covid cases still has the potential to affect me and/or people I care about with just more illness swirling about. For example, my mother took a fall and I spent yesterday morning at the local ER with her (fortunately just a bad sprain, no fracture). So much for my efforts to avoid medical facilities. We are all interconnected to some degree.
dado potato
6-18-20, 5:07pm
Iceland seems to have a handle on things:
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/iceland-reopens-coronavirus/index.html
The article confirms what I understood about Iceland's thorough tracing/quarantining of contacts. On the island kinship is well established... as they say, "everybody knows everybody".
The leadership of the effort to counteract the spread of the virus in Iceland was out of the hands of politicians. The key roles were played by a police detective, a nurse, and a public health official. I believe they were on TV together for an hour every day... so the population was given a consistent message, not biased by an elected president or a state governor (as in the USA), and not perpetually criticized by the "loyal opposition".
I agree with JaneV2.0 that Iceland was using science, and I would add "for the public interest". COVID-19 tests were plentiful because a local company, a subsidiary of a multinational pharmaceutical company, dropped all other activities to produce testing kits for the Iceland national government.
Another factor was voluntarism. I believe the tracing effort was greatly aided by retired nurses in Iceland who heeded the call to return to service.
BZ BRAVO ZULU to Iceland
The article confirms what I understood about Iceland's thorough tracing/quarantining of contacts. On the island kinship is well established... as they say, "everybody knows everybody".
It's such a small community that they have a special dating app for Icelanders, ÍslendigaApp, which allows you to bump your phones together at a bar or whatnot to see if you have close kinship. The app slogan is “Bump the app before you bump into bed.”
I have greatly enjoyed my many visits to Iceland :-)
Daily covid deaths are now a tenth of what they used to be, yet large portions of the state remain locked down by our dictatorial governor. It's fear not facts. Very frustrating.
The blood loss from this wound is down 90% from applying direct pressure, which really hurts quite a bit!
The wound isn't bleeding much now though, let's remove the pressure!
It'll all be good!
#Things_they_don't_teach_you_in_medic_school
ApatheticNoMore
6-18-20, 7:12pm
every successful country, including only moderately successful ones who were by no means exemplary and are not entirely free of it (much of Europe including Italy), got the virus down to very low rates before reopening (they may also have traced and so on).
Of course it's possible the U.S. isn't CAPABLE of that anyway, it's a FAIL-STATE (failed state + failson) afterall, not capable of much.
Because the rate with lockdown here plateaued, it never really got low, now it's definitely on the rise here locally, everything is open, you can't get your nails painted because the your so vain song is about you, if you want, cheap often illegal immigrant labor probably not even earning minimum wage, serving you, and getting sick for it. What's not to like? But cases keep rising.
I have a lot of respect for the "abundance of caution" school of thought in this case. The West Coast is slowly reopening with masks mandatory in most counties.
Covid reminds me of Y2K, another exaggerated "disaster".
Covid reminds me of Y2K, another exaggerated "disaster".
People worked their *bleeps*off rewriting code for years before Y2K, and certifying critical systems would function properly. As a result, there was no disaster.
Covid-19, people worked their *bleeps* off as well, as a result only 118,334 people have died from it in the USA so far, as of this moment. Expect that number to continue upwards.
So yes, I suppose the two events are similar, in that action by informed and diligent people limited the impacts significantly.
Covid reminds me of Y2K, another exaggerated "disaster".
Hundreds of thousands of Americans, to say nothing of citizens of other countries, didn't die due to Y2K. And it's not over yet.
I’ve been putting in huge hours for three months to meet the needs of dozens of Covid patients. It really frustrates me that people believe none of this is happening.
The people who are dying are for the most part people who would have died anyways of the flu or some other opportunistic infection. There are the proverbial exceptions that prove the rule. This is not like the disease epidemics that wiped out whole Native American communities upon first contact. Everyone wishes covid were not around, but it is not catastrophic. People have compared it to the Black Death and the Spanish flu of 1918, events of a totally different scale. There is a lot of paranoia and exaggeration by people with a vested interest in fearmongering, as with Y2K.
You are so wrong
Correct.
There is a lot of paranoia and exaggeration by people with a vested interest in fearmongering, as with Y2K.
Ah yes. The CoronaConspiracy. Plandemic. It's so obvious!
People worked their *bleeps*off rewriting code for years before Y2K, and certifying critical systems would function properly. As a result, there was no disaster.
Y2K was how I spent most of my 1999 at work (and a good chunk of my 1998). Assessing exposures, investigating options, defining specs, getting six- and seven-figure updates approved, implementing them, testing them, and executing a test suite at the stroke of midnight on New Year's Eve 1999 because if my systems didn't work because of Y2K, no one else would be notified about theirs.
Were there lives at stake? Not for the Fortune 100 manufacturing company at which I worked. But my experience was duplicated at hospitals and medical-equipment manufacturers and emergency dispatch sites, where lives were at stake. Y2K was injurious to the company's bottom line and inconvenient for the company's operation and 1/1/2000 was going to happen anyway. So I suppose we shouldn't have done anything and just found out where the chips fell.
Ridiculous.
Programmers were definitely one group that benefited from Y2K fears. A friend of mine in that profession then told me she demanded to work from home 3 days a week and could get that and whatever else she wanted because of Y2K.
Programmers were definitely one group that benefited from Y2K fears.
"Fears". You keep using that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means.
I was in charge of Y2K compliance for one of America's most successful technology companies. Both for our own processes and infrastructure, as we didn't want to suffer business losses because of it, and for the products that we produced. Our products were used in situations where they simply couldn't ever fail, even from hardware failure events. It was essential that we could guarantee our products would not suffer from the Y2K issues, and could prove it ahead of time to our fault-intolerant customers.
As a result, I directed a sizeable engineering effort to make that happen. We didn't "benefit" from that activity, except that in doing so we were able to retain our customers. We deployed Really Smart, Highly Paid senior engineers to deal with our software, firmware, and hardware Y2K issues, and we would have produced More Profit if we'd been able to use those scarce, expensive resources for new product development instead.
Yet we, who were probably the most informed people on the planet about the issues, decided it made good sense to spend this effort, weighing the risks and costs based on data, not fear.
How much code or hardware design did *you* inspect during Y2K? How is it you are such an expert that you can classify the conclusions of real engineers and scientists as "fear"?
Waiting for deflection in....3....2.....1
And as Steve pointed out, the y2k programmers did a good job. They deserve everything they got.
This graph of the first five months of the year shows in a neat way how serious covid is.
https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/2634167/?fbclid=IwAR14ZUhxX-xd0s4U0KKmqYlwwfgGPNY9asPhQXCNkQ8ldww5uBlrJjzqGIg
ApatheticNoMore
6-18-20, 9:52pm
So what if they got a benefit, I've got benefits in my work life just for asking as well. They can say no, you can ask, if you don't even ask, well that's totally your own fault at that point.
This graph of the first five months of the year shows in a neat way how serious covid is.
https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/2634167/?fbclid=IwAR14ZUhxX-xd0s4U0KKmqYlwwfgGPNY9asPhQXCNkQ8ldww5uBlrJjzqGIg
Oh silly JP1, Y doesn't believe in science or fact. Not sure why you bother her with it.
Programmers were definitely one group that benefited from Y2K fears. A friend of mine in that profession then told me she demanded to work from home 3 days a week and could get that and whatever else she wanted because of Y2K.
Oh my, my husband's work was Y2K fallout prevention and it's all he did for 18 months. I have no idea what benefits you speak of. I mean, he was employed 40h/week and got to pay for a hotel room and meals 2 blocks from the office as he was on a 5 minute call-in for 48 hours if there were issues. And no, there was no reimbursement for those expenses.
But hey, you know much more than he, so by all means, your expertise must be recognized>:(
I don't know what planet you live on......................
Oh silly JP1, Y doesn't believe in science or fact. Not sure why you bother her with it.
She's blocked me so it's only everyone else that will benefit from that timeline.
happystuff
6-19-20, 7:28am
Ahhh... Y2K... the last part of my coding/programmer career was working on that. Suffice to say, I now ALWAYS write out the full 4-digit year on everything. LOL.
Ahhh... Y2K... the last part of my coding/programmer career was working on that.
I spent a solid 2 years in QA specifically focused on y2k testing. There were real issues to fix, and fix we did. And our software worked flawlessly when Jan 1, 2000 came along. That doesn't make it a hoax.
Most states had some version of a stay at home order. This prevented a lot of people from contracting Covid and kept infection rates (relatively) low-ish. That doesn't make it a hoax.
So many computer people on this forum! The rest of us were out partying like it was 1999.
iris lilies
6-19-20, 9:54am
So many computer people on this forum! The rest of us were out partying like it was 1999.
Hahaha!
Yet we, who were probably the most informed people on the planet about the issues, decided it made good sense to spend this effort, weighing the risks and costs based on data, not fear.
Thank you, bae. Nothing I could add to that response.
happystuff
6-19-20, 10:12am
So many computer people on this forum! The rest of us were out partying like it was 1999.
ROFLOL!
I well remember the COBOL coders’ last stand. They were indeed the best informed people on the issues. After all, it was largely their lack of foresight that created them. But in their defense, nobody thought so many poorly documented lines of code would still be in use many years in the future.
I think it’s interesting how well we are able to ignore the approach of inevitable crises until it’s almost too late, whether in software, pestilence or insolvency of retirement systems.
Teacher Terry
6-19-20, 12:16pm
California is now mandating masks. I hope other states follow suit.
I spent a solid 2 years in QA specifically focused on y2k testing. There were real issues to fix, and fix we did. And our software worked flawlessly when Jan 1, 2000 came along. That doesn't make it a hoax.
Most states had some version of a stay at home order. This prevented a lot of people from contracting Covid and kept infection rates (relatively) low-ish. That doesn't make it a hoax.
Ah.... yeah..so.....about those TPS reports.....:D
ApatheticNoMore
6-19-20, 1:04pm
California is now mandating masks.
about time (although people do wear masks). Too bad it only came after that health director in orange county had to lose their job over it etc.- not going to be any qualified people left in government at any level by the time Trump and his merry band of idiots is done with us.
Phoenix is mandating masks as of today
Office space!!!
Love/hate that movie. Lived it too many times in real life.
If I could nominate a co-worker for each of the characters in that movie, that would be greeeaaaat...
Wearing masks is so oppressive in the summer heat that due to demand by their customers this underwear company has started making masks in a more breathable fabric:
https://us.fashionnetwork.com/news/Japan-s-uniqlo-to-make-masks-using-underwear-fabric,1218608.html
I know despite my washing them the masks I have smell badly. I had a foul odor in my desk and traced it to the masks. Breathing in all that confined air is disgusting and unhygienic.
I guess that’s why we had the great ‘operating room revolt of 1992’ when all the surgeons and OR nurses across the country decided to not wear masks at work for a month.
‘Masks are uncomfortable, dr Smith, the organizer of the protest said. ‘And frankly, we don’t care if our germs infect our patients. They should have stayed home if they are scared. At worst someone working in the OR may have the flu.’
I guess that’s why we had the great ‘operating room revolt of 1992’ when all the surgeons and OR nurses across the country decided to not wear masks at work for a month.
‘Masks are uncomfortable, dr Smith, the organizer of the protest said. ‘And frankly, we don’t care if our germs infect our patients. They should have stayed home if they are scared. At worst someone working in the OR may have the flu.’
39 years of mask wearing in the OR. WHY did I succumb to someones rules that take away my freedom?
OMG I cannot believe this is still a question in anyone's mind>:(
happystuff
6-20-20, 10:19am
OMG I cannot believe this is still a question in anyone's mind>:(
I keep coming back to - because they are selfish, uncaring, and have very little or no compassionate for others.
Teacher Terry
6-20-20, 10:47am
Just when I think someone can’t get any more ridiculous they do:))
I love the contradictions:
"Masks are ineffective; they don't stop viruses." and
"Masks trap carbon dioxide and bad smells inside."
Whatever. A growing body of data seems to prove their effectiveness in stopping/slowing viral spread. Good enough for me.
I love the contradictions:
"Masks are ineffective; they don't stop viruses." and
"Masks trap carbon dioxide and bad smells inside."
Whatever. A growing body of data seems to prove their effectiveness in stopping/slowing viral spread. Good enough for me.
Covid particles are extremely small. Other stinky particles are larger. If you knew for sure that a person had covid would you spend long periods of time around them wearing any random cloth mask? I think not. Medical personnel don't. The reason is that only N95 masks specially fit to your face stop covid.
Covid particles are extremely small. Other stinky particles are larger. If you knew for sure that a person had covid would you spend long periods of time around them wearing any random cloth mask? I think not. Medical personnel don't. The reason is that only N95 masks specially fit to your face stop covid.
Covid particles travel on spit droplets, not free by themselves. The 140 people who got their hair done in Missouri by two stylists with moderate symptom covid but didn't get the disease are surely glad those stylists weren't stupid selfish idiots but instead WORE THE DAMN MASKS.
I guess that’s why we had the great ‘operating room revolt of 1992’ when all the surgeons and OR nurses across the country decided to not wear masks at work for a month.
I helped lead our Firefighter/EMT Union's strike a couple years back - carrying the 0.5 ounce masks just for patient care was too much of a burden, atop all of the 80 pounds of other gear we must wear. And the masks mess up our stylish moustaches.
ApatheticNoMore
6-20-20, 1:42pm
We should probably have better masks than we do:
https://hbr.org/2020/06/we-need-better-masks
So yes we should have better masks.
The defense production act should have been used to produce them, for healthcare workers first and then for everyone, months in now. But we live in a fail-state, so it's not happening, it should happen but it's not. If anything should cause one to go all libertarian or anarchists and then conclude "ok we have to handle this ourselves then without government" it would be the utter failures like this of our failstate - ok then we have to at least all wear masks ourselves (and this is the easy part - everything else is HARD to do without government - I mean I'd like to "go-fund-me" contract tracing at this point but ... maybe Bill Gates will help this under-developed country?).
But no instead of seizing the moment, hey government IS failing us in most ways here (mind you I approve of the mask mandates but it's hard to say government in general has been handling things so well), we have ridiculous people going on about not wearing masks for vanity reasons, only proving that they themselves are incapable of voluntary pro-social action without being forced into it. So good on Newsom for the mask mandate , even if in general Cali is also a nation-failstate with regard to covid.
Masks are getting better--with HEPA filters and nose clips and adjustable straps. Some of them are surely at the upper end of effectiveness per available charts. And again, data shows they work.
N95 masks work for airborne (aerosolized) covid. This happens with patients on ventilators, with intubation, etc.
The rest of covid is droplet spread and stopped by regular masks.
Tammy does aerosolization occur with dental procedures? My dentist has been trying to get me to come in for a cleaning but it seems a very unsafe environment to me right now. I would think dental drills release all sorts of spray from people's mouths into their offices.
Handy data visualization tool:
https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
Tammy does aerosolization occur with dental procedures?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/dental-settings.html
First time at church today since mid-March. 10 people only. Very well spaced out. We have chairs, not pews, and chairs were scattered about with something like 10ft in between. I was expected to sing through my mask. I ended that pretty quickly. Not gonna work. And then I was having one perpetual hot flash. I was sitting against the wall. I turned to the wall several times to pull my mask down to cool down. I got a talking to after the service for doing that.
I’m maybe not going back until everything is fully open and no masks required.
I don't blame you Tradd. One thing I sometimes do is pull the mask under my nose so it only covers my mouth, which makes it a little easier to breathe, but I have not tried singing.
Today I went to a couple of stores in western New Hampshire with no mask mandates. It was so liberating. I felt normal again. Everyone is going to be so happy when this is over. I wonder if there will be mask burning parties.
I don't blame you Tradd. One thing I sometimes do is pull the mask under my nose so it only covers my mouth, which makes it a little easier to breathe, but I have not tried singing.
It's supposed to cover the nose too, or it's much less effective. You know this, I suspect.
In case you don't:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-to-wear-cloth-face-coverings.html
In case you do:
Have some ice cream....
I'll hang on to my masks when this is all over. There's always a flu season.
I'll hang on to my masks when this is all over. There's always a flu season.
Or the common cold, or some new rare virus, or smog, or a nuclear power plant blows up, somethiing else to be afraid of. Or you could get sprayed by a skunk while talking and it could get in your mouth.
happystuff
6-20-20, 8:11pm
I'll hang on to my masks when this is all over. There's always a flu season.
Me, too. I have one in the front pocket of my wallet - easy access. I'm not sure when "all over" will be, but I have a feeling it will be a long time from now. I have no problem wearing a mask, whether others wear them or not.
On the news I heard there are multiple corona outbreaks in college towns and the students with the virus are largely asymptomatic. Of course the media made this out to be doom and gloom but I think, absent a vaccine, it is the best news we could have, because it means we are developing herd immunity without people getting sick, being hospitalized, or dying. And research is increasingly showing that immunity does develop, with "second" infections now believed to be old remnants of the virus, not reinfection, and more promising work with plasma treatments.
As Bae’s link shows, I think we are not sure yet on dental. I’m purring off my cleaning cause it can wait.
I was surprised that breathing treatments for asthma require airborne precautions. We switched entirely to inhalers instead of SVNs in my dept as soon as COVID started.
On the news I heard there are multiple corona outbreaks in college towns and the students with the virus are largely asymptomatic. Of course the media made this out to be doom and gloom but I think, absent a vaccine, it is the best news we could have, because it means we are developing herd immunity without people getting sick, being hospitalized, or dying. And research is increasingly showing that immunity does develop, with "second" infections now believed to be old remnants of the virus, not reinfection, and more promising work with plasma treatments.
Umm, you might want to get your information from some other source than the news. Perhaps I could recommend the actual research instead? Which is quite recent, and I would describe it as "increasingly showing"...
On Thursday in fact, pretty much the first research to characterize the immune response in asymptomatic people was published.
It suggests that they mount a weaker response to the virus than people who develop symptoms. And in < 1 month, antibody levels fall to undetectable levels in 40 percent of asymptomatic people and 13 percent of symptomatic people. Herd immunity may not be so easy to establish as your claim.
So, back to your news then... No links for you, but you are welcome to come by our EOC for the daily conference...
Teacher Terry
6-21-20, 12:17am
Y, I think you have so much on your plate that you are lashing out and not facing your real problems. You are under employed despite having a college degree and a MI son dependent on you with no end in sight to develop your own life. I have been there and therapy really helped me to break free out of my prison and have my own life.
Or the common cold, or some new rare virus, or smog, or a nuclear power plant blows up, somethiing else to be afraid of. Or you could get sprayed by a skunk while talking and it could get in your mouth.
How could I forget ash fall? I wasn't prepared for that when St. Helens blew. I'm ready now! :D
ApatheticNoMore
6-21-20, 11:30am
How could I forget ash fall? I wasn't prepared for that when St. Helens blew. I'm ready now!
How about wildfires on the west coast, oh wait like another pandemic (a prior epidemic is part of why Asia was well prepared) that's in the never ever ever could happen, you made this up category. Wildfires and brush fires, increasing with climate change, I MUST be making things up.
I mean air filters might be slightly more practical, heaven knows that's why I have an air filter, though I use it for other things too.
How about wildfires on the west coast, oh wait like another pandemic (a prior epidemic is part of why Asia was well prepared) that's in the never ever ever could happen, you made this up category. Wildfires and brush fires, increasing with climate change, I MUST be making things up.
I mean air filters might be slightly more practical, heaven knows that's why I have an air filter, though I use it for other things too.
Our wildfires are generally on the other side of the Cascades, but that's another one for the list--if they get bad enough, the smoke will drift.
Maybe we could do some genetic engineering. Take the kangaroo genes that allow them to grow a pouch and get humans to grow a flap of skin over their mouths and noses. Need to eat? Put the food down into the pouch. The world is such a dangerous place and this would keep us all safe, because human breath can be oh so toxic.
That would make it messy to eat your ice cream sundaes.
The news seems to indicate the states that are seeing record increases in cases and hospitalizations have a disproportionate number of spreaders under 35 who may be ignoring social distancing and masks. Maybe it's gen X's plan to reduce the social security burden of us seniors with underlying conditions.
Tonight's news reported that while masks may stop some forward spread of particles, the particles simply move backward or upward where the mask is loose and still get out into the air, just in a different direction. This is why I believe only N95 masks specially fitted to your face do any good.
This is why I believe only N95 masks specially fitted to your face do any good.
You could believe the Earth is flat too, but you'd be wrong on both counts.
You know this.
Tonight's news reported that while masks may stop some forward spread of particles, the particles simply move backward or upward where the mask is loose and still get out into the air, just in a different direction. This is why I believe only N95 masks specially fitted to your face do any good.
"...points to a study published in Nature Medicine (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2) in April that looked at people infected with the flu and seasonal coronaviruses. It found that even loose-fitting surgical masks blocked almost all the contagious droplets the wearers breathed out and even also some infectious aerosols — tiny particles that can linger in the air.
And a modeling study, published (https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspa.2020.0376)this month in Proceedings of the Royal Society A, concluded that if the majority of a population wore face masks in public — even just homemade ones — that this could dramatically reduce transmission of the virus and help prevent future waves of the pandemic.
As for cloth masks, the protection depends on what they're made out of and how well they fit. But with the right combination of materials, you can create a cloth mask that offers protection to the wearer in the 30% to 50% range or more (https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/22/840146830/adding-a-nylon-stocking-layer-could-boost-protection-from-cloth-masks-study-find), says May Chu, an epidemiologist at the Colorado School of Public Health who co-authored a paper (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.nanolett.0c02211?ref=pdf) published on June 2 in Nano Letters on the filtration efficiency of household mask materials. That's far from full protection, but combined with social distancing and hand-washing, she says, it's certainly better than nothing."
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/06/21/880832213/yes-wearing-masks-helps-heres-why
Shhhh. Stop with the science. You’re killing yppej’s ‘it’s only worthless old people who need to worry about this’ buzz. She doesn’t want to hear how we can reduce this to insignificance if we can just get the infection rate below one for a period of time because that would mean her having to take personal responsibility and concern for other human beings by living with a minor inconvenience.
This is why I believe only N95 masks specially fitted to your face do any good.
65% of our OR staff cannot be fitted for N95. Now what? Since you know all:confused:
65% of our OR staff cannot be fitted for N95. Now what? Since you know all:confused:
Oh, oh, Mr. Kotter!!!
dado potato
6-23-20, 3:18pm
The financial impact of COVID-19 on American hospitals ...http://www.aha.org/system/files/media/file/2020/05/aha-covid19-financial-impact-0520-FINAL.pdf
Revenue losses (cancelled elective surgeries) and extra costs (PPE, etc.).
rosarugosa
6-23-20, 4:58pm
I was happy to hear that Massachusetts now has the lowest Covid transmission rate in the US. It seems we are doing something right.
Rosa, despite the best rate around the governor is delaying moving to phase 3. I know people who want to get married outdoors but cannot have wedding guests.
Also in state news today - testing of people who went to protests - much larger gatherings than the weddings would be - showed zero impact. The covid positive rate was the same low rate as in the population at large. Of course the governor cannot admit he is wrong and is saying the protesters were okay because they were moving around. This is false. They were lying down for 9 minutes, the amount of time George Floyd had a knee on his neck. They were also sitting and/or standing still listening to speeches. They were only moving some of the time. But he is not interested in facts.
dado potato
6-23-20, 5:31pm
Wisconsin was getting better until 6/19, when the 14-day moving average number of positive tests stopped diminishing.
Now this state is getting sicker with COVID-19 by the day.
I gather that something like 25 other states are also getting sicker.
We received a wedding invitation yesterday from a WHAM-O beautiful couple. The wedding is to take place during the second week of September, in a repurposed barn, in the Northern Highlands of Wisconsin. We can imagine how cute it will be, but I believe we should regretfully decline that invitation.
I am a bit concerned about taking our road trip to TX in a few days. We will do one night at a hotel and one at an Air BnB. We will be staying at DD's house and not going anywhere once we get there. They work at home but their kids have gone back to daycare. They want to get together with some other family at the house but that makes me nervous as one works in healthcare. So there will be potential exposure here and there. Silly me - I also wonder where one finds restrooms on the road that are OK to use.
Rosa, despite the best rate around the governor is delaying moving to phase 3.
Cause, meet effect. I guess our great results are just pure ass luck, and has nothing to do with the actions our Dictoratorial (trademark) governor has done.
From what I have read (and feel free to correct me and I'm sure you will) Phase 3 has been planned to start on June 29. I could not find anything about this date being delayed from a web search. I'm not seeing any delay.
Also comparing crowds in an open air environment as opposed to inside a building is dishonest. But you know that. Keep beating your dead horse with your smelly mask. ;)
Herbgeek phase 3 is delayed until at least July 6. So much for celebrating freedom on the 4th of July.
I compared outdoor weddings to outdoor protests, not an outdoor event to an indoor event. Call me dishonest again because you have trouble with reading comprehension and you too will be added to my ignore list.
rosarugosa
6-23-20, 6:42pm
Herbgeek: "Cause, meet effect." I love it! I can't believe folks are still putting down the governor, when all indications are that he has handled this pandemic so successfully.
Jeppy: I would rather see things move more slowly, but successfully, rather than follow the path of states that have opened things too quickly and are now moving in the wrong direction.
We can certainly celebrate freedom on the Fourth, just in a manner consistent with current circumstances. I'll be happy to be alive and having a low-key celebration, rather than be dead or in an ICU room with no celebration at all.
ApatheticNoMore
6-23-20, 7:05pm
Me and my partner watched a wedding on the intertubes, it was only immediate family due to covid. So there was no invitation to decline, I mean the plan was to go, but that was long before covid changed evreyone's plans including not inviting anyone but family. So no you don't actually need to have some large wedding.
--
The odd thing is by calling prudent government dictatorship, they have made dictatorship sound so appealing, and what they call freedom (the right to infect everyone) so loathsome, that dictatorship, where do I sign up? I would totally join the Dictatorship party.
California has been a strict state and their cases are rising. Cause and effect is not as simple as some of you are assuming.
I'd be delighted to be on your ignore list! I'd love to be a member of a club that includes people that believe in science!
ApatheticNoMore
6-23-20, 7:18pm
California has been a strict state and their cases are rising. Cause and effect is not as simple as some of you are assuming.
You don't know what you are talking about.
You don't live here. Stop generalizing about a place you don't live because you really have no idea what the actual law is in California. And instead of researching it, you are just spewing stereotypes about what you imagine to be true about California (that's it's a blue state so it must be strict, or that since it closed down early it must STILL be strict etc. - the second part isn't true, it's not strict now). It is true the (San Francisco) bay area has stricter restrictions, but that doesn't help your argument as most cases in California aren't coming from there!
I actually live in California. I have an actual incentive to actually follow what is going on here, in terms of lockdown restrictions and cases. We haven't been strict in weeks and weeks. Bars and tatoo parlors and massage parlors and nail salons and gyms are open now. Malls have been open for several few weeks as have hair salons and restaurants.
You don't know what you are talking about.
I concur.
Looking at the data coming in from all over the country, it appears there is a serious problem brewing. Yppej doesn't know what they are talking about.
Spain had a rock hard lock down and a very slow considered reopening. The latest news from people there is the cases are beginning to reappear. They are trying to do targeted shutdowns. We shall see.
California has been a strict state and their cases are rising. Cause and effect is not as simple as some of you are assuming.
Bullshit! And I don't think you live there so you are clueless.
If we had a Leader who had followed Italy's advice, we would be done with this crap already! But no......we are climbing to the worst daily new cases since this fiasco was allowed to ramp up! 123k dead and counting>:(
I’m in IL. My gym opens Friday. I’m there! Oddly at their Chicago locations, you have to wear a mask inside even while exercising. Yuck. I belong to LA Fitness.
Gov announced guidelines for reopening schools in the fall.
If we had a Leader who had followed Italy's advice, we would be done with this crap already! But no......we are climbing to the worst daily new cases since this fiasco was allowed to ramp up! 123k dead and counting>:(
Given our govt system with 50 states, would the Feds have had the authority to shut the entry country down? I don’t really know. This is regardless of who the prez is.
ApatheticNoMore
6-23-20, 9:47pm
So the governor of Texas is now telling people to stay home.
"Because the spread is so rampant right now, there’s never a reason for you to have to leave your home. Unless you do need to go out, the safest place for you is at your home" - gov of Texas
So tell me how is it's effect on business any different than a lockdown? Is it different because some reckless people will still go out? Even if the governor is saying don't do it etc.. Yea sure, but you can't necessarily sustain a restaurant or a gym or etc. on some portion of the population that is reckless though, you probably need more customers than that to break even.
I cancelled my gym membership, I accepted the inevitable reality that thing isn't going away anytime soon, I don't like it one bit, but it is what it is what it is. A gym branch here has already closed as well.
Given our govt system with 50 states, would the Feds have had the authority to shut the entry country down? I don’t really know. This is regardless of who the prez is.
https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html
SteveinMN
6-23-20, 10:46pm
I just read in the local newspaper (on-line) that they are canceling this year's Twin Cities Marathon. The October Twin Cities Marathon. Well, they're holding an honor-system "run-26-miles-and-record-your-time-and-get-your-certificate-and-swag" virtual marathon. But the outside marathon is not being held this year. I'm seeing more and more events past the summer be evaluated for how realistic it is for them to occur in a pandemic.
Some of our dance groups have been discussing how we might be able to dip a dancing toe into the water in the coming months. The conversations run aground pretty quickly because it's just not the kind of dancing you can do six feet apart. There also are significant logistical issues around wearing masks and how wearing one will work with between-dance mingling and snacking. At the same time, this generally is an older crowd, with the conditions that afflict many older people, so exposure is a concern. One of our older dancers (91; bless him!) and his 75 yo partner have told me they do not plan to be dancing again any time soon because of the risk of exposure. I'm sure they're not the only ones.
I've given up on the notion of a "second wave" of coronavirus in the U.S. because I don't think the first wave will be gone any time soon. *sigh*
happystuff
6-24-20, 8:43am
I just read in the local newspaper (on-line) that they are canceling this year's Twin Cities Marathon. The October Twin Cities Marathon. Well, they're holding an honor-system "run-26-miles-and-record-your-time-and-get-your-certificate-and-swag" virtual marathon. But the outside marathon is not being held this year. I'm seeing more and more events past the summer be evaluated for how realistic it is for them to occur in a pandemic.
Some of our dance groups have been discussing how we might be able to dip a dancing toe into the water in the coming months. The conversations run aground pretty quickly because it's just not the kind of dancing you can do six feet apart. There also are significant logistical issues around wearing masks and how wearing one will work with between-dance mingling and snacking. At the same time, this generally is an older crowd, with the conditions that afflict many older people, so exposure is a concern. One of our older dancers (91; bless him!) and his 75 yo partner have told me they do not plan to be dancing again any time soon because of the risk of exposure. I'm sure they're not the only ones.
I've given up on the notion of a "second wave" of coronavirus in the U.S. because I don't think the first wave will be gone any time soon. *sigh*
The choir I belong to had, naturally, cancelled its spring concert. They are holding off any decision about the December concert. I will be disappointed, but not surprised if it, too, gets cancelled. Choir members are older and indoor, close-contact, group singing is a big no-no! (Also, singing with a mask... I don't think so. lol)
It will be nice when these types of things can be resumed - SAFELY!!! I want to be able to go back to choir and worry about hitting the right notes, not worry about getting sick or getting someone else sick.
Stay safe, everyone.
I got a link this morning from someone whose friend and co-worker is experiencing a hellish "recovery." She's featured in an article:
LOS ANGELES - Since the first reported cases of the novel coronavirus, several support groups have emerged on Facebook consisting of thousands of members calling themselves “long haul survivors,” reporting COVID-19 symptoms that they say have lasted for months.
“Today is day 93,” said Amy Watson, a preschool teacher who lives in Portland, Oregon as she shared a photograph of her thermometer that read 100.3 on June 18. She first tested positive for COVID-19 on April 11, after falling ill with flu-like symptoms in mid-March.
Watson said she has had a persistent fever for nearly three months now, along with a handful of other disconcerting symptoms.
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/today-is-day-93-people-report-experiencing-covid-19-symptoms-that-last-for-months?fbclid=IwAR1oIHK2zqawCRKkZvbcHiwPLq-0JtnsCLpUHR2KyvPUrswEQeOv_X2ZUk0
Teacher Terry
6-24-20, 11:27am
Since our phase two reopening our cases are skyrocketing. We went out to a bar last night where we know the owner. He had the bar marked off so no one was close. He said he could survive if he got half the people but he isn’t. He is worried that he won’t make it. Many of the restaurants/bars are up for sale and closed. We are not done with the economic devastation yet the human costs in lives and suffering.
sweetana3
6-24-20, 12:38pm
TT you are so right. Our downtown that took literally decades to rebuild and revitalize is dead again. What with the virus, the riots and boarded windows, panhandlers, the loss of convention business and the now danger to women of assault, we need some positive news. Our cases statewide are around 400 per day. Been pretty steady.
IL has actually had decreasing numbers for something like five weeks. The state department of public health head was actually giggling during the press conference yesterday due to the good news. Nice to see.
Still more evidence that population-wide wearing of masks helps slow the spread significantly.
https://www.fastcompany.com/90519909/countries-where-everyone-wears-masks-saw-covid-death-rates-100-times-lower-than-projected?fbclid=IwAR1EpokM1OEK3oOF7mfaqmwdC7Dli82 lSqQyl9wE7yiNHRZg2L0NTK4gVzo
Over 1/3 of cases in the USA are age 18-44.
34313 new cases yesterday.
This is FARRRRR from over!
From the same friend mentioned above comes the story of a friend's mother who arrived for a visit from Arizona. After a few days, she experienced trouble breathing and soon died from "a massive heart attack." --Which turned out to be caused by multiple blood clots, common in COVID19. I wonder how the health department will code that case.
Jane, a coworker told me today his neighbor works in a covid unit and at least half the covid deaths are bogus. He specifically mentioned someone who died of a heart attack whose death was listed as covid. He said the reason is the unit receives money from the government for each covid death, so they have a strong incentive to code everything they can get away with as covid.
Jane, a coworker told me today his neighbor works in a covid unit and at least half the covid deaths are bogus. He specifically mentioned someone who died of a heart attack whose death was listed as covid. He said the reason is the unit receives money from the government for each covid death, so they have a strong incentive to code everything they can get away with as covid.
Horseshit.
Jane, a coworker told me today his neighbor works in a covid unit and at least half the covid deaths are bogus. He specifically mentioned someone who died of a heart attack whose death was listed as covid. He said the reason is the unit receives money from the government for each covid death, so they have a strong incentive to code everything they can get away with as covid.
I imagine this woman's death will be classified as a routine heart attack. To my suspicious eye, all those blood clots look like COVID19.
Good grief now we are using third hand gossip to discuss serious topics.
I guess elitists are now dismissing the lived experiences of ordinary people that do not fit into their paradigm as gossip. This snobbery is why Trump won. People don't like condescension.
I’d be highly suspicious of anyone who says covid deaths aren’t being documented with positive test results. Any medical facility receiving Medicaid or Medicare payments is subject to audits by HHs with steep penalties for inaccurate billing codes. I’d be surprised if the same didn’t happen if there are government covid payments.
iris lilies
6-24-20, 9:30pm
Is anyone here taking an antibody test? DH took one today at his annual exam. His dr suggested he take it. No real reason other than the doc is curious who has the antibodies.
I guess elitists are now dismissing the lived experiences of ordinary people that do not fit into their paradigm as gossip. This snobbery is why Trump won. People don't like condescension.
Wow, what a line.
IL, my doctor's office is not offering antibody tests. I wish they would. Then at least the cost would apply to my deductible. I am not willing to spend $119 for it and it doesn't count towards the deductible.
Is anyone here taking an antibody test?
I'd be interested. But between the high percentages of false positives and/or false negatives on some brands/varieties (https://abcnews.go.com/US/mayo-clinic-doctors-find-covid-19-antibody-tests/story?id=70803740) of the test, I would not have confidence in the results. I don't know if whoever is administering the test could tell me ahead of time which company's test I'd be getting (to decide if it was worth it in the first place) and, given the stakes, I don't know as even the most accurate tests available now would tell me what I want to know.
It sounds like there's a window for the presence of antibodies, so I wonder how useful such testing is.
Teacher Terry
6-25-20, 12:22pm
Nevada just made masks mandatory even outside. Our cases are rapidly increasing and I applaud our governor’s decision.
Simplemind
6-25-20, 1:21pm
We have been talking about it. We still think my DH may have had covid along with the flu (tested positive for flu, no covid test at that time) in January. He was very sick for three weeks. Then about a month later he had a stroke. The Neuro says the size and place of this second stroke doesn't explain the symptoms and amount of setback DH is experiencing. I get that there is compounded stress with all that is going on, it still doesn't totally explain why both of us have been feeling overwhelming fatigue for awhile now. We exercise and eat properly. We were not like this before. Afternoon naps have become a thing where they were never even a thought before. My sister is certain (has not tested) that is what she had when she went to Arizona in January and ended up coming home early due to fever and coughing/chest pain. She is still on two inhalers 6 months later. I would really love to know.
Teacher Terry
6-25-20, 2:08pm
So sorry simple that you all are going through all of that. Many people are having lingering fatigue and issues months later.
flowerseverywhere
6-25-20, 2:54pm
I had an antibody test during my last every eight week blood donation. They are looking for antibodies which may be useful to transfuse to sick patients. It was negative. I am in a National covid study already. I Have sheltered in place and been meticulous about face masks and hand washing. Never had a symptom or came in close contact with someone positive I know of. I live next to a hotbed county. So far, we are not doing too baldly with cases in my county. However I often am the person who is one of only a few mask wearers which is why I am very careful about where I go.
anyone who believes the medical opinion a medical coder, politician, plumber, talk show host, reporter, weatherman or neighbor is nuts. Here is who to believe. The CDC, WHO, NIH, top infectious disease specialists, scientists working on a vaccine and physicians who care for covid patients every day. They may not always be 100% right but they have a astronomically better chance at getting it right than the former group. And not TV doctors who run the talk show circuit hawking products for their own gain. Remember Hydroxychlorquine? Lupus and other people that it actually worked on could not get it after some snake oil salesman hawked it. It proved not to be helpful and maybe harmful. Now we have tons of it in the federal stockpile. Gee, I wonder who owns stock in those companies Donald and friends?
I had an antibody test during my last every eight week blood donation. They are looking for antibodies which may be useful to transfuse to sick patients. It was negative. I am in a National covid study already. I Have sheltered in place and been meticulous about face masks and hand washing. Never had a symptom or came in close contact with someone positive I know of. I live next to a hotbed county. So far, we are not doing too baldly with cases in my county. However I often am the person who is one of only a few mask wearers which is why I am very careful about where I go.
anyone who believes the medical opinion a medical coder, politician, plumber, talk show host, reporter, weatherman or neighbor is nuts. Here is who to believe. The CDC, WHO, NIH, top infectious disease specialists, scientists working on a vaccine and physicians who care for covid patients every day. They may not always be 100% right but they have a astronomically better chance at getting it right than the former group. And not TV doctors who run the talk show circuit hawking products for their own gain. Remember Hydroxychlorquine? Lupus and other people that it actually worked on could not get it after some snake oil salesman hawked it. It proved not to be helpful and maybe harmful. Now we have tons of it in the federal stockpile. Gee, I wonder who owns stock in those companies Donald and friends?
Word!!
On the news I saw professional baseball and basketball players practicing right next to each other, none of them wearing masks. I don't blame them since masks make it hard to breathe. Everyone should have that same right to breathe freely, not just elite athletes.
It was announced today MLB players will not be wearing masks during games, even though they can be in close contact - for example, when tagging someone at a base or the plate.
frugal-one
6-25-20, 7:06pm
Moron trump is stopping testing.... As if that will help him look good?????
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-coronavirus-test-sites-ending-funding-5-states-2020-6
I'm getting weekly testing now. And still wearing a mask.
Moron trump is stopping testing.... As if that will help him look good?????
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-coronavirus-test-sites-ending-funding-5-states-2020-6
He is so over it! And he can tweet insults at it all night long, but it won't be intimidated by him at all. :cool:
It was announced today MLB players will not be wearing masks during games, even though they can be in close contact - for example, when tagging someone at a base or the plate.
I hope that works out better for them than the pro tennis players that all recently got it from each other...
Jane, a coworker told me today his neighbor works in a covid unit and at least half the covid deaths are bogus. He specifically mentioned someone who died of a heart attack whose death was listed as covid. He said the reason is the unit receives money from the government for each covid death, so they have a strong incentive to code everything they can get away with as covid.
Every time I think you've reached the outer limits, you outdo yourself. I call bullshit on your neighbor. You should spend some time learning about what these patients go through. Get some meaningful education. Then apply it to life!
It sounds like there's a window for the presence of antibodies, so I wonder how useful such testing is.
There are people testing positive just 14 days after being declared recovered. I wouldn't waste money on antibody testing. It's reliability is poor at present time.
Nevada just made masks mandatory even outside. Our cases are rapidly increasing and I applaud our governor’s decision.
YEA! I wish your neighbor to the North would do that!
ApatheticNoMore
6-26-20, 11:52am
YEA! I wish your neighbor to the North would do that!
Oregon or Idaho? Who really needs to do is that neighbor to the Southeast.
The neighbor of a coworker etc.., yea 3rd hand gossip and the poster here is suspect as they so often get basic things wrong.
I'd trust it more if it didn't seem to align so perfectly with right-wing propaganda. And if there was more actual proof of actual systematic (not one off) fraud. I mean if it's someone with diagnosed covid with a heart attack there is no way of knowing whether they would have had that heart attack without covid.
As for the WHO and the CDC and etc. - trust but with a grain of salt. I mean this is for our reputable sources: The Lancet publishes an invalid study they have to retract, the WHO slow on declaring a pandemic, wrong on masks, let's speculation about the lack of asymptomatic transmission blow up and misinform. The CDC invalid tests, lying about masks, wrong on human transmission, etc.. - and ultimately accountable to Trump which has to shade everything they do to some degree. There is an actual reason for there to be a crisis of trust in authorities, they have failed us in many ways, it just doesn't mean alex jones are dr mercola and Fox commentators are right instead - no they are a great deal worse than the authorities in misinformation.
Oregon or Idaho? Who really needs to do is that neighbor to the Southeast.
I'd trust it more if it didn't seem to align so perfectly with right-wing propaganda. And if there was more actual proof of actual systematic (not one off) fraud. I mean if it's someone with diagnosed covid with a heart attack there is no way of knowing whether they would have had that heart attack without covid.
Idaho! And yes, Oregon should as well.
Regarding COVID coding: There is absolute validity in billing more for a COVID patient. This patient becomes a 1:1 Nurse ratio. This patient consumes massive volumes of costly PPE for those who need to come in/out of their room. Negative Pressure environment requires attention by both clinical staff and engineering staff. This patient is consuming a great deal of laboratory resources.
ARDS carries a CPT code modifier.....an infected patient carries a CPT code modifier. COVID should absolutely have a code modifier. Just because a patient had a heart attack doesn't mean that COVID didn't have a massive effect on their cost of care.
Like you, I'm sick and tired of the Trumper lies.
Traveling through Tx right now. Only masks are on travelers. No locals wearing them; not even hotel desk clerk.
Teacher Terry
6-26-20, 12:54pm
G, thanks for explaining how it really works.
The most populous counties in Oregon have mandatory masking now, but the onus is on county governments to decide how to implement that. Reports from the Portland area are that most people are wearing masks. We have statewide masking as of today in Washington. "The rule, which will go into place Friday, will require masks in any indoor public space, as well as outdoors if social distancing can't be maintained. Any facial covering that fits over the nose and mouth will be permitted."
And in response, we have a booming business in fake medical exemption cards, and a sheriff in the SW part of the state is railing against "being a sheep"--believing health care authorities--because "...he’s not convinced masks help prevent the spread of the virus." Really? Because almost all the doctors and scientists studying this are convinced. I'd love to see his credentials and/or data.
happystuff
6-26-20, 2:19pm
Traveling through Tx right now. Only masks are on travelers. No locals wearing them; not even hotel desk clerk.
Part of me is thinking that anyone who refuses to wear a mask, then catches COVID-19, should also refuse medical treatment for the virus. But then that isn't a very kind, caring or compassionate thing to say, so I guess I'll just continue to wear a mask to protect not only myself but to also protect those who refuse to wear one.
Traveling through Tx right now. Only masks are on travelers. No locals wearing them; not even hotel desk clerk.
Which is probably why Texas is seeing a tsunami of new cases.
Went to the gym today. LA Fitness branch in suburban Chicago.
Pool area is locked. Not open. Arrows through the entire place. Every other cardio machine blocked off. Showers unavailable. Drinking fountains turned off. They told us to bring our own water. We were also told to come already dressed to workout. They made it pretty clear they didn’t want us to us locker rooms. It was wet out this morning so I was running errands in sandals with my workout shoes and socks in a plastic grocery bag. It was raining so I didn’t change at my car. Changed inside. My purse on top of bag with my sandals was sitting on floor next to bike I was using.
I was halfway through 40 min workout when one of the employees comes over and tells me I can’t have a bag due to COVID. Excuse me? Their emails, signs, etc., made no mention of that. Guy said he wanted me to put it at the front desk. I told him my purse wasn’t going out of my sight. He relented but told me no bag for the next time.
I’ll just go back to just bringing phone, keys, and water bottle, as I used to do. That was just weird.
dado potato
6-26-20, 4:33pm
Wisconsin has been getting sicker each day for a week now.
The national numbers are disconcerting.
On 6/25 Texas Governor Gregg Abbott banned elective surgeries in Dallas, Harris, Travis and Bexar Counties (home to Dallas, Houston, Austin and San Antonio).
Gov. Abbott also announced that he would pause any further phases of reopening business in Texas. This action does not reverse any of the reopening phases he has already allowed. The last thing we want to do as a state is go backwards and close down businesses.
The 7-day moving average positivity rate in TX is 10.42% ... about 1 in 10 Texans who are tested for COVID-19 test positive.
Update 6/26 ... The >10% positivity in TX moved Gov. Abbott to "roll back" some of the reopening measures he had previously approved.
At this time it is clear that the rise in cases is largely driven by certain types of activities, including Texans congregating in bars. That said, Gov. Abbott ordered the bars to close at 12:00 PM. (That is noon, right?)
And he ordered that rafting and tubing businesses must close.
And he banned outdoor gatherings of 100 or more persons, with certain exceptions.
Traveling through Tx right now. Only masks are on travelers. No locals wearing them; not even hotel desk clerk.I'm in Montana at the moment and everywhere we've been so far has required wearing of masks. They seem to be overdoing the social distancing thing a bit though, visited the Little Bighorn Battlefield Monument today and they blocked off every other parking space, I guess to protect the cars.
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/105865839_2655032724769651_3830100036893349101_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=bzmYRwxbiloAX9h4a94&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=5a09ac74748b1de6cfc98d92a61dd118&oe=5F1AEECE
Teacher Terry
6-26-20, 5:08pm
To protect people when getting in and out of cars.
frugal-one
6-26-20, 5:14pm
I'm in Montana at the moment and everywhere we've been so far has required wearing of masks. They seem to be overdoing the social distancing thing a bit though, visited the Little Bighorn Battlefield Monument today and they blocked off every other parking space, I guess to protect the cars.
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/105865839_2655032724769651_3830100036893349101_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=bzmYRwxbiloAX9h4a94&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=5a09ac74748b1de6cfc98d92a61dd118&oe=5F1AEECE
Better to err on the side of caution!
I heard on the radio today that JP Morgan Chase has developed a model that correctly predicts the location of covid outbreaks. They found where you have a high rate of dining inside restaurants 3 weeks later you have an outbreak. Where you high rates of people shopping at supermarkets you have a low rate of infection 3 weeks later. Here is a link to an article on this:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/26/this-chart-shows-the-link-between-restaurant-spending-and-new-coronavirus-cases.html
I found this interesting because despite having no risk factors I have not eaten at a restaurant since the pandemic began, though I could have crossed a nearby state line and done so indoors or out. By contrast one of my critics here, a high risk individual, has reported going out for multiple restaurant meals during the pandemic.
Things that make you go hmmm.
Things that make you go hmmm.
Hmmm.
People here wear masks in the supermarket, but I suspect dining at a table in restaurants remove the mask to eat.
Hmmmm.
Teacher Terry
6-26-20, 6:32pm
Restaurant meals outside at a odd time when you rarely encounter others is much less risky than inside dining.
We did go to a restaurant for our 40th anniversary 7d ago. They only do dinner and we took a 5PM reservation for first seating so no one had been in the restaurant for 19 hours. We were out in less than an hour not having a conversational post-dinner cocktail.
Our state has been on a rapid rise these past 4 days. No more eating out for us. We may or may not do take-out.
I'm only doing takeout, or delivery for restaurants right now.
One of the local high-end restaurants, which is on the beach, has started selling pizzas off their back patio, and you can pick up up, and go spread your blanket on the beach, and remain distanced, which works great.
I'm only doing takeout, or delivery for restaurants right now.
One of the local high-end restaurants, which is on the beach, has started selling pizzas off their back patio, and you can pick up up, and go spread your blanket on the beach, and remain distanced, which works great.
That sounds great!
That sounds great!
Yes, it's an amazing change. $20 for dinner for two, instead of $200 :-)
iris lilies
6-26-20, 9:52pm
Oh Lord this was a bad thing. We are in Hermann and the tourists are out. I went to a restaurant intending to sit outside but all the outside seating was taken except for a place where it was really hot. So we went inside, choses a corner table away from everyone else and since they only had half of the tables up anyway that seemed OK.
But then. The crowds came. And more groups. This is a tourist town so it’s not individuals who order it’s gaggles of girls, so many brides and their parties. Tons of people and there was no social distancing and I saw only one mask. I know I didn’t take my name because I forgot it, but it was in the car and I should’ve gone to get it.
And this is a small restaurant. So fortunately they serve food in cardboard containers and the second we got our food we left with it. It was hideously noisy in this restaurant as it has all hard surfaces and noise bounces. For alcohol They serve only awful sweet slushy drinks and All food is fried. Here’s why I went there – I want to give the restaurant business. It is owned by a trained chef and this is his new concept restaurant. They closeD their perfectly nice Italian restaurant and rebranded as this thing. UGG.
I'm in Montana at the moment and everywhere we've been so far has required wearing of masks. They seem to be overdoing the social distancing thing a bit though, visited the Little Bighorn Battlefield Monument today and they blocked off every other parking space, I guess to protect the cars.
Having been to local wilderness parks here I understand the thought process. I've tried to go to a couple of parks over the past months that had parking lots that were just mobbed with people. Both times I just kept driving and went hiking in less popular parks. Whether the same phenomena would happen at Little Bighorn is debatable. Most of the mobs I've seen in parking lots at state and county parks have been groups of people meeting up that had arrived in different cars. That's probably not as much of an issue at a place like Little Bighorn.
Having been to local wilderness parks here I understand the thought process. I've tried to go to a couple of parks over the past months that had parking lots that were just mobbed with people. Both times I just kept driving and went hiking in less popular parks. Whether the same phenomena would happen at Little Bighorn is debatable. Most of the mobs I've seen in parking lots at state and county parks have been groups of people meeting up that had arrived in different cars. That's probably not as much of an issue at a place like Little Bighorn.
The closest town to this monument has a population of 2. It's 30 miles to the nearest grocery store and 56 miles to the nearest ubiquitous Walmart. Mobs would seem to be anything but ordinary.
One of the local high-end restaurants, which is on the beach, has started selling pizzas off their back patio, and you can pick up up, and go spread your blanket on the beach, and remain distanced, which works great.
Sounds fantastic! I would do that every night for dinner!
I'm only doing takeout, or delivery for restaurants right now.
One of the local high-end restaurants, which is on the beach, has started selling pizzas off their back patio, and you can pick up up, and go spread your blanket on the beach, and remain distanced, which works great.
That is what our last night in Hawaii back in March was like. High end restaurant we'd eaten at on our last trip to Kauai. They were only doing takeout but letting people eat out on their lawn facing the ocean. They even brought out lawn furniture for us. It was actually more enjoyable than the last time we ate there because the food was still delicious and it was just a low key, enjoy the sunset while you eat, kind of experience. SO was trying to look disappointed but he was obviously faking his disappointment...
3292
And the view behind me.
3293
ApatheticNoMore
6-27-20, 2:59am
One restaurant here closed down in house dining due to rapidly rising covid cases (it's allowed, they just don't want to be open), went back to take out and delivery.
I don't think I've been in a restaurant since February (I don't mean take out), I think early March I got soup at a salad bar and reheated it!
rosarugosa
6-27-20, 6:45am
I heard on the radio today that JP Morgan Chase has developed a model that correctly predicts the location of covid outbreaks. They found where you have a high rate of dining inside restaurants 3 weeks later you have an outbreak. Where you high rates of people shopping at supermarkets you have a low rate of infection 3 weeks later. Here is a link to an article on this:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/26/this-chart-shows-the-link-between-restaurant-spending-and-new-coronavirus-cases.html
I found this interesting because despite having no risk factors I have not eaten at a restaurant since the pandemic began, though I could have crossed a nearby state line and done so indoors or out. By contrast one of my critics here, a high risk individual, has reported going out for multiple restaurant meals during the pandemic.
Things that make you go hmmm.
That was an interesting article, Jeppy. Thanks for posting. We've only gotten take-out 5 times and we haven't eaten in a restaurant since 3/14/20. I love to eat out, but it isn't worth the risk.
That was an interesting article, Jeppy. Thanks for posting. We've only gotten take-out 5 times and we haven't eaten in a restaurant since 3/14/20. I love to eat out, but it isn't worth the risk.
We ate out twice since all this happened and restaurants started reopening. One restaurant simplified its menu and eliminated most everything I like, so it definitely was not a great experience.
We live in a tourist area and I notice that all the locals are wearing masks and none of the tourists seem to be. It's like they have different personal behavior expectations away from home. It's kind of a weird divide.
rosarugosa
6-27-20, 9:09am
Tybee: That is lousy that tourists are being inconsiderate. Maybe they think that being on vacation means no personal responsibility.
I should have said about restaurants that it isn't worth the risk to me and DH. Everyone needs to do their own personal risk-benefit analysis, and we won't all reach the same conclusions. My first non-grocery public forays were to local garden centers for plants, very important to me but I'm sure not everyone would see it the same way.
Good point about personal risk-benefit analysis.
As far as the tourists, I get where they are coming from, I am not mask-shaming anyone, just thinking about the psychology of it all. I think part of the problem we are having with this whole experience is that not enough attention is being paid to psychology, and too much emphasis is being put on giving people directives, without them having any input or buy-in. From a psychological standpoint, that's a set-up for both stress and failure.
I am really saddened to see how people are blaming other people, instead of the disease, not that you are doing that, but I am working hard to not scapegoat other people and assume the worst about them.
And I am actually sickened when I hear people wishing that sick people who have, according to them, brought the disease upon themselves by not obeying their directives, should be forced to not seek healthcare. I think people who are making those statements, if they are in health care, need to seek another profession.
That's just my opinion, of course.
I do think restaurant behavior has to do with let's go out, not cook, enjoy a familiar happy place--for me, the restaurant we went to was no longer a happy place because of masks, anxiety, etc. etc.
ApatheticNoMore
6-27-20, 12:25pm
The cautious people are probably not thinking "hey now is a great time to take a vacation" or if they do they go to a hotel and don't go out much but just spend their time on the beach and get takeout, or they go camping (though the shared bathrooms could be a vector unless it's true backcountry), or they go to Iceland :) - if they can manage to stay safe on the plane. So yea the tourists now are going to be a sample of the reckless ones.
A stranger came up to me in the store telling me how she hates masks, they fog up her glasses, etc. She liked my idea of having a mask burning party when this is over.
A stranger came up to me in the store telling me how she hates masks, they fog up her glasses, etc. She liked my idea of having a mask burning party when this is over.
Hooray for science denialism!
ApatheticNoMore
6-27-20, 1:27pm
I hate pants, I'm tired of wearing them and not ok with shorts or skirts or dresses either. I'm ok with wearing a shirt if I have to I guess though I'd rather not, but why should I have to cover the bottom part of my body too? That's really going too far! I can't wait for the pants burning party, so my buns can breath free as the day I was born. Now that's freedom. I say if we were meant to wear clothes we would have been born with them. They are threatening to arrest me for going around without pants. What kind of dictatorship do we live in I ask you? Worse than Stalin and Hitler and Pol Pot combined. And then people shake their head and shame me for walking around nude as well. It's horrible. So tired of this totalitarianism.
rosarugosa
6-27-20, 2:11pm
Tybee: You are kinder than I am, because I do blame people when they behave irresponsibly - that is how the virus spreads.
ANM: lol
frugal-one
6-27-20, 2:14pm
What is there to get? We are in a PANDEMIC. Wear a mask to protect others and, possibly, yourself... don't be so selfish as to put others at risk!!!!
frugal-one
6-27-20, 2:14pm
Tybee: You are kinder than I am, because I do blame people when they behave irresponsibly - that is how the virus spreads.
ANM: lol
I agree. It is not rocket science.
Teacher Terry
6-27-20, 2:16pm
I am sick of people acting like selfish babies instead of reasonable adults.
early morning
6-27-20, 2:30pm
TT : +1
Pull up your grown-up undies and wear the dratted mask, people!!
Here's an extreme example: https://apple.news/AK12cFRJJSLKE-txnMyn_Jw
Infected, spreading the virus, still defiant.
Reminds me of (probably apocryphal) stories of Gaetan Dugas* gleefully infecting his lovers with AIDS.
*popularly, if mistakenly, known as "patient zero."
Driving through Fredericksburg Tx. Throngs of tourists. Very few masks and absolutely no distancing. We brought food for our trip but have made a couple of drive through restaurant stops.
rosarugosa
6-27-20, 3:31pm
I hate pants, I'm tired of wearing them and not ok with shorts or skirts or dresses either. I'm ok with wearing a shirt if I have to I guess though I'd rather not, but why should I have to cover the bottom part of my body too? That's really going too far! I can't wait for the pants burning party, so my buns can breath free as the day I was born. Now that's freedom. I say if we were meant to wear clothes we would have been born with them. They are threatening to arrest me for going around without pants. What kind of dictatorship do we live in I ask you? Worse than Stalin and Hitler and Pol Pot combined. And then people shake their head and shame me for walking around nude as well. It's horrible. So tired of this totalitarianism.
ANM: Make sure you carry your card: 3294
https://www.timesnownews.com/the-buzz/article/anti-maskers-in-florida-have-bizarre-reasons-for-not-wearing-masks-netizens-have-hilarious-comebacks/612845
"I don't wear a mask for the same reason I don't wear underwear..."
I just thought the saddest thing was that these comments came from the mouths of women. It was scary.
Jaw-dropping, I thought.
Oh well--it's their 30 seconds of fame.
They walk among us.
I guess I am not the only one who would like to burn masks:
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/trending/woman-burns-mask-opposition-north-carolina-governors-mandate/BDKUW44AY5HFFKZTL5MIJF5OYQ/
And here is an argument that mask wearing violates freedom of religion:
https://www.wlwt.com/article/ohio-legislator-voices-opposition-to-face-masks-citing-image-and-likeness-of-god/32378103
Teacher Terry
6-27-20, 6:38pm
I want to practice my god given right to kill people. Ugh!! Since many have demonstrated that they are too stupid to follow common sense we may have to have laws just like we do for seatbelts,etc. My sister always said that the average person was stupid and I always thought that was much to cynical. Looks like I was wrong.
iris lilies
6-27-20, 8:20pm
I thought of JP this morning when I was shopping in specialty shops for food for our luncheon guests. I couldn’t understand anything the service people were saying because 1) I’m old and hard of hearing and 2) they were wearing masks.
But I wear my mask when I was in these shops!
On June 18th Governor Newsom mandated masks in California but corona cases continue to spike. It is 9 days now. Let's see if in 5 more days things reverse course there, since that will be 2 weeks that masks have had the chance to work their supposed magic.
Teacher Terry
6-27-20, 10:16pm
IL, I am having the same problem:)).
On June 18th Governor Newsom mandated masks in California but corona cases continue to spike. It is 9 days now. Let's see if in 5 more days things reverse course there, since that will be 2 weeks that masks have had the chance to work their supposed magic.
Cases here are skyrocketing in southern California. We should have done like NY NJ and CT and forced people from AZ to stay home. And the southern counties should not have opened bars and restaurants. But... Freedumb!!! But by all means continue you’re stupid eff concept that masks don’t work. Thank goodness you live on the other side of the country.
ApatheticNoMore
6-28-20, 1:32am
Cases here are skyrocketing in southern California. We should have done like NY NJ and CT and forced people from AZ to stay home. And the southern counties should not have opened bars and restaurants. But... Freedumb!!! But by all means continue you’re stupid eff concept that masks don’t work. Thank goodness you live on the other side of the country.
As for cases spiking in SoCal
- in store non-essential retail shopping open June 1st
- restaurants open for dine in since June 6th as were hair salons. From a sample visited by the authorities 50% of restaurants that reopened were found not in compliance with new reopening guidelines.
- gyms reopened on June 12th
- bars opened on June 20th - and 500k people in L.A. went to bars then, 5% of the ENTIRE population. If anyone believes everyone in bars is following masks and social distancing protocols I have a bridge to sell them. Nail salons, tattoo parlors, and gambling opened then.
Cases are almost certainly understated since there was close down in testing even this week. I don't think this is a deliberate cover-up.
Masks reduce transmission. I don't know that there are many countries where mask were the ONLY policy, nor do we have all the best masks in the world. Our government does seem to want to place all the responsibility on individuals now, saying it's entirely our responsibility to prevent it, but many countries may have masks yes and it helps but also have policy. They shut down SEVERELY for AS LONG AS IT TAKES to get cases under real control. OR if they don't shut down they started early on with aggressive contract tracing (which would probably violate the FreeDUMBERS freedumb as well) and quarantine and isolating etc.. I mention this because it's the line the government is feeding us now, that coronavirus spread is all our fault, and government policies are the best they can be in the best of all possible worlds. They didn't screw up, not even in opening bars (!), rather the people have forfeited the confidence of government and they need to elect a new people.
So yea, I don't know if there are many countries where entirely leaving it up to individuals no matter how compliant (and in the U.S. there is going to be a lot of people out of compliance since it's politicized, so even if you get the big blue cities in CA, rural red areas aren't going to be even in CA). Maybe Japan is an example of masks alone being enough, I don't know. I am aware some argue masks alone could be enough, but it seems largely theoretical rather than proven in actual experience. But they usually say it only takes 70% compliance, so if you can get that and just a few dead-enders are arguing against masks (that's why yeppej alone is irrelevant and happily doesn't live here but continues to troll the forum just because) then maybe that's good enough ...
If not well, it's not going to be Sweden btw, even though that is also a failure. But much more unhealthy population in the U.S. almost certainly, less access to healthcare, paid time off etc. etc. It could get quite a bit worse.
Chicken lady
6-28-20, 6:39am
ANM,
there is a bar for you near me. ;) They have a big sign out front announcing that masks and pants are not required.
(unfortunately the health department rules still require shirts and shoes)
Had a really weird run in about masks today. I’m out at the quarry diving. Saw a friend and went over to say hello. I was about 10 ft away. A woman he was with started screaming at me to put a mask on. She’s never met me before. Neither she nor the friend were wearing masks. I just gave her my Death Stare with one raised eyebrow and walked away. There is no reasoning with some people.
Some people are math challenged and do not know what 6 feet is.
Our national response to this is cringeworthy. Do we never look at what successful countries do and follow suit? (Comprehensive contact tracing, for example.)
I lay most of the blame for this at Trump's feet, but I wonder--with so many ready to jump on far-out Russian spread conspiracy theories and anti-science bias, if we might have done nearly as badly under a competent leader.
iris lilies
6-28-20, 1:17pm
Our national response to this is cringeworthy. Do we never look at what successful countries do and follow suit? (Comprehensive contact tracing, for example.)
I lay most of the blame for this at Trump's feet, but I wonder--with so many ready to jump on far-out Russian spread conspiracy theories and anti-science bias, if we might have done nearly as badly under a competent leader.
I think you are having a hard time living in these United States because there is no legal authority for public health policies at a national level. See, we are states. United. Get it!?
I wouldnt surprised if Trump started something because he thinks he is King, but guess what—he isnt. Rational people want to keep him or his ilk or anyone from any ilk from King status.
Our national response to this is cringeworthy. Do we never look at what successful countries do and follow suit? (Comprehensive contact tracing, for example.)
I lay most of the blame for this at Trump's feet, but I wonder--with so many ready to jump on far-out Russian spread conspiracy theories and anti-science bias, if we might have done nearly as badly under a competent leader.
If nothing else a competent leader is unlikely to have politicized masks. That one thing alone would have been a tremendous help.
iris lilies
6-28-20, 1:20pm
If nothing else a competent leader is unlikely to have politicized masks. That one thing alone would have been a tremendous help.
Yeah, right, the scientists who told us first “ no masks” then now “masks” are not to blame.
That is still one of the biggest wtfs in this entire Covid game.
First only N95 masks are any good, then any cloth face covering will do. I wonder if I got a piece of permeable lace and tied it around my face if anyone would object, not here but in real life.
I think you are having a hard time living in these United States because there is no legal authority for public health policies at a national level. See, we are states. United. Get it!?
I wouldnt surprised if Trump started something because he thinks he is King, but guess what—he isnt. Rational people want to keep him or his ilk or anyone from any ilk from King status.
Like the Balkans. OK, gotcha.
ApatheticNoMore
6-28-20, 1:29pm
Yea states don't work as they are presently at least for this type of big problem. I wouldn't mind succession, separate countries could control their finances, their currency, their borders, and their policies - something like the EU might work, but boy are there a lot of difficulties doing that at this point. But actual states can't and actually aren't REALLY the one's making decisions entirely either. That's just not true. Nothing can be laid entirely at the states feet with Barr threatening legal action with any states (and cities!) that don't entirely comply with Trump's reopening etc. policies.
States have been given blame but not sufficient actual leeway. So even when states seem blameworthy and stupid and may well be, there is ALSO always an immense amount of pressure from finances to lawsuits being put on them by the Fed gov these days. The buck stops nowhere, everyone and noone is to blame. Of course most the electorate at this point seems to be blaming Trump as well they should.
Down with pants!!
Interesting comparison. With the increased popularity of oral sex has the mouth now become, like genitalia, an erogeneous zone that must be covered with a mask to make to make it more forbidden and alluring?
iris lilies
6-28-20, 2:53pm
Interesting comparison. With the increased popularity of oral sex has the mouth now become, like genitalia, an erogeneous zone that must be covered with a mask to make to make it more forbidden and alluring?
This is crazy of course but it made me laugh.
"Increasing popularity" was the part that made me laugh.
ApatheticNoMore
6-28-20, 4:02pm
"Increasing popularity" was the part that made me laugh.
this is what happens when you start giving women the vote ...
this is what happens when you start giving women the vote ...
:~)
Yeah, right, the scientists who told us first “ no masks” then now “masks” are not to blame.
That is still one of the biggest wtfs in this entire Covid game.
Those darn scientists. Getting all sciency and changing their theories as more information becomes available. How dare they! Next thing you know some damn scientist will have the nerve to proclaim that he suspects cholera is spread by contaminated drinking water.
But nonetheless, Trump's adamant refusal to model appropriate public health safety by wearing a mask and even hosting absurdly unsafe large mask-free indoor events has cleaved public belief in the importance of masks and social distancing along political lines in a way that hasn't happened elsewhere. We will suffer from this pandemic way longer than was necessary because of it.
But nonetheless, Trump's adamant refusal to model appropriate public health safety by wearing a mask and even hosting absurdly unsafe large mask-free indoor events has cleaved public belief in the importance of masks and social distancing along political lines in a way that hasn't happened elsewhere. We will suffer from this pandemic way longer than was necessary because of it.
Now now, didn't you hear Mr Pence at the WH briefing: The constitution guarantees the right to assemble. >:(
iris lilies
6-29-20, 12:02am
Those darn scientists. Getting all sciency and changing their theories as more information becomes available...it.
No.
It was the lying.
You know, tellIng the dumb public not to buy masks. Secret reason: they are needed for healthcare workers.
ApatheticNoMore
6-29-20, 12:43am
Well bars closed again by the governor. That was all of 7 days they were open.
On masks there are restaurants here (really takeout because they never were sit down to begin with, even though sit down is currently allowed) that have now had to close because customers wouldn't wear masks and were threatening employees who told them to, and the business wouldn't put up with it's workers being threatened, so just closed for now. Nice going, anti-mask lunatics.
ApatheticNoMore
6-29-20, 1:03am
No.
It was the lying.
You know, telling the dumb public not to buy masks. Secret reason: they are needed for healthcare workers.
Yea it's pretty sleazy, especially as they never even used the defense authorization act to manufacture the darn things for healthcare workers, and then everyone else who wanted them them if they had additional capacity. Completely ridiculous. But part of it was perhaps they were thinking in very narrow terms as well - like cloth masks don't provide the protection for the user of an N95 or surgical mask - and they were not necessarily even thinking in epidemiological rather than medical-worker terms. Might be a flaw for medical people to think that way anyway.
Though, I don't trust Fuci much, just not for any reason the Trumpsters have against him, because they are far worse and whoever they replaced him if they got their way is bound to be VASTLY worse, but just he shades things is all - he couldn't even find any flaws in California's reopening plan. Uh hello it's entirely blowing up. The flaws were all in the little people's behavior. But you don't get in that type of position and certainly stay in it now without playing ball and then some.
Before the mask advice changed my bf was like "i'm going to start wearing a mask to the store now" and I was like "masks aren't really effective, you should only wear them if you are sick or caring for a sick person". And he was like "they are just saying that to preserve them for healthcare workers". Well of course he was right. I'm never cynical enough like I say. Maybe I should have started getting advice from Nassim Nicholas Taleb rather than the authorities since hey my bf was. That's what it's come to I guess :)
No.
It was the lying.
You know, tellIng the dumb public not to buy masks. Secret reason: they are needed for healthcare workers.
Since you're an expert on covid that knew way back then how it was transmitted, do you have a better suggestion for what they should have done? Or do you just want to bitch about the scientists because "yeah! Scientists suck!"
ApatheticNoMore
6-29-20, 1:20am
Since you're an expert on covid that knew way back then how it was transmitted, do you have a better suggestion for what they should have done? Or do you just want to bitch about the scientists because "yeah! Scientists suck!"
Most people would say they should tell the truth as best as they understand it at the time. Like I don't think the philosophy of lying to the little people from their own good actually has that many fans, ESPECIALLY AMONG the little people! And especially if the lying is by those those supposed to represent the search for truth etc.. Way back in the days of W such beliefs of lying to the people for their own good, tended to be attributed to neocons and Leo Strauss (whether or not that was fair to Leo Strauss I wouldn't know). It was Hillary Clinton's public and private positions (though that was never particularly altruistic at all, it was about serving big donors). The thing is Fauci has straight out said it was a lie to preserve masks for medical people, but who knows if it wasn't just a misconception, the liar lying about lying because at least they don't have to admit being wrong, only he claims he lied is all.
rosarugosa
6-29-20, 6:17am
I'm probably stirring the pot here, but I thought this was hilarious:
3303
I started the day being depressed. Guess it depends on whether I think a large percentage of people are thoughtful, keep informed, and want to help their fellow man. Or whether they are a bunch of inconsiderate knuckleheads without a care for anyone, wanting only their own pleasure, or do not care about knowledge and being informed. Reading local posts and hearing from even relatives and I think it is the later.
Anyone who had a very basic knowledge of the 1918 flu, SARS #1 or MERS, or any zoonotic disease should be very worried. Our scientists were working on a NOVEL virus and knowledge has increased as more and more is known about it.
All we can hope for is either a vaccine or a mutation to a less virulent form. Nothing much will help if it mutates to a more virulent form. Good grief, I am very depressed this morning.
sweetana, I've been riding that rollercoaster for a while -- optimism that things will get better fairly soon and pessimism/depression at the idea that Americans have found a way to make something suck more than air travel. Our society finally is reaping the benefit of all that has been sown over the past 30-40 years. I'm sure some people feel really good about that. I comfort myself in the knowledge that they'll get theirs someday.
...
Before the mask advice changed my bf was like "i'm going to start wearing a mask to the store now" and I was like "masks aren't really effective, you should only wear them if you are sick or caring for a sick person". And he was like "they are just saying that to preserve them for healthcare workers". Well of course he was right. I'm never cynical enough like I say. Maybe I should have started getting advice from Nassim Nicholas Taleb rather than the authorities since hey my bf was. That's what it's come to I guess :)
In early March, when COVID loomed on the horizon, I ordered provisions from Amazon--alcohol, wipes, gloves, masks... Masks just made sense to me. The first ones I got were just a few layers of jersey, but they are a barrier.
I'm probably stirring the pot here, but I thought this was hilarious:
3303
I see variations of this every day on social media. Courtesy of Russian bots and people who believe them.
Love "they're HIPPO."
dado potato
6-29-20, 10:19am
The magazine Psychology Today said in regard to resilience, Any crisis, such as the coronavirus pandemic, can test resilience.
Looking to loved ones for help and emotional support,
increasing self-care,
and focusing on the aspects of the situation that are under your own control can help.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/resilience
My understanding is there's never been a corona vaccine. Flu vaccines exist, but they're like blindly throwing darts at a target. Maybe great medical strides will be made this time, maybe not.
I think we have to hope it goes the way of the 1918 Flu.
iris lilies
6-29-20, 10:23am
Since you're an expert on covid that knew way back then how it was transmitted, do you have a better suggestion for what they should have done? Or do you just want to bitch about the scientists because "yeah! Scientists suck!"
I would like them to tell the truth as they know it at the time. I understand a nuanced scientific world where
1) not all scientists agree on what the facts are
2) They may disagree on interpretation of facts, even if they agree on facts
3) facts and interpretation change, evolving
But anyway, it wasn’t really the scientists who lied to the public. It was the bureaucrats representing science. Bureaucrats lying!. That is shocking!
Not.
iris lilies
6-29-20, 10:25am
My understanding is there's never been a corona vaccine. Flu vaccines exist, but they're like blindly throwing darts at a target. Maybe great medical strides will be made this time, maybe not.
I think we have to hope it goes the way of the 1918 Flu.
That’s my understanding as well about no coronavirus vaccines now exist, and how many years has the scientific world and working on them? For JP1, I’m not knocking scientistS for not being able to invent the impossible. The scientific world is overall pretty small and ineffective when compared to the huge force of mother nature and the natural world. We are tiny cogs in the wheel.
There are coronavirusEs that dogs get and there is a vaccine for that, but they have a whole different lifestyle in the canine biological unit.
ApatheticNoMore
6-29-20, 11:43am
But anyway, it wasn’t really the scientists who lied to the public. It was the bureaucrats representing science.
exactly
Teacher Terry
6-29-20, 11:45am
Rosa, too funny!
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