View Full Version : Conavirus......
ApatheticNoMore
6-29-20, 12:03pm
It is depressing, I basically live like I did in lockdown. I don't go anywhere but groceries, I see a few limited number of people at a real distance (over 6 feet) outside with masks and noone but my boyfriend inside without a mask and of course that's not risk free either but (the masks are the least of it, they are no bother, the world seems full of "princesses" who do nothing but complain about peas under 10 mattresses as far as that goes). Granted in lockdown I turned down even some of those very limited safer activities.
But no group activities, no events, no just hanging out somewhere but in my 1 bedroom apartment, no gym etc. - lots of taking walks. And I'm tired of it, but ...the thing is cases are actually surging here by seeming leaps and bounds (as many maybe most places in the U.S.) so ... :\
iris lilies
6-29-20, 12:10pm
I'm probably stirring the pot here, but I thought this was hilarious:
3303
Ha ha yes! Think about it! If this doesn’t prove that Trump operatives own the means of manufacturing for masks, I don’t know what does.
frugal-one
6-29-20, 4:03pm
It is depressing, I basically live like I did in lockdown. I don't go anywhere but groceries, I see a few limited number of people at a real distance (over 6 feet) outside with masks and noone but my boyfriend inside without a mask and of course that's not risk free either but (the masks are the least of it, they are no bother, the world seems full of "princesses" who do nothing but complain about peas under 10 mattresses as far as that goes). Granted in lockdown I turned down even some of those very limited safer activities.
But no group activities, no events, no just hanging out somewhere but in my 1 bedroom apartment, no gym etc. - lots of taking walks. And I'm tired of it, but ...the thing is cases are actually surging here by seeming leaps and bounds (as many maybe most places in the U.S.) so ... :\
Same here. My problem is I love to plan things.. to have something to look forward to. Now... nothing.
But no group activities, no events, no just hanging out somewhere but in my 1 bedroom apartment, no gym etc. - lots of taking walks. And I'm tired of it, but ...the thing is cases are actually surging here by seeming leaps and bounds (as many maybe most places in the U.S.) so ... :\
Same here. Even though things are opening up, its not the same experience at all. Fridays, we used to buy a pitcher of beer at one of our local breweries and chat with the bartender and regulars. While you can have beer outdoors, its with a mask and social distancing and not at all the experience I enjoy. If I'm just going to be drinking with just my spouse, I might as well buy a 6 pack and do that at home (which we do).
I have nothing in the future to really look forward to, and that is depressing. My nephew is driving up for his semi annual visit this week, and while I will be happy to see him, we can't really go anywhere or do anything other than talk.
I too am a planner. I had four separate vacations all planned this year and all cancelled. Postponed two of the US trips to next year to help out the organizations but will not be traveling by air for the others. Trained when I was working that everything had to be planned in detail ahead due to leave requirements.
I am grateful that our exercise classes at the YMCA have started again so I can sweat out the depression. My favorite instructor starts July 7 and since he is 67 we are all in the same boat. I am taking the risk of a group class for my physical and mental health.
We stay away from strangers and events. Wear our masks everywhere. Hubby will be working in small discrete groups, wearing masks and trying to socially distance on his Habitat or wheelchair ramp builds. My hobbies are all at home with no need to be out and about. Grocery shopping is 90% of our reason to leave home right now.
Got to the gym for the second time today since reopening on Friday. I was diving over the weekend. Feel so much better. I just do the recumbent bike.
Tradd, we got to the gym for the second time in 3 days. Feel so much better. I think it was what I missed most since I went 6 times a week before lock down and loved it. Even had my favorite instructor.
Teacher Terry
6-29-20, 6:54pm
I am a planner to and miss having parties. We have been seeing our friends on a individual basis. We really miss traveling.
In states like mine where masks are mandated, why are there still senior hours at stores? If the masks are so great senior hours, which predated the mask mandate, should no longer be necessary.
In states like mine where masks are mandated, why are there still senior hours at stores? If the masks are so great senior hours, which predated the mask mandate, should no longer be necessary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCU36pkH7c
Teacher Terry
6-29-20, 7:10pm
:~)
In states like mine where masks are mandated, why are there still senior hours at stores? If the masks are so great senior hours, which predated the mask mandate, should no longer be necessary.
Time for you to go sit in a room with a COVID + patient for 8 hours. No PPE.
You just keep topping yourself with dumb and dumber........
ApatheticNoMore
6-29-20, 8:11pm
if cigarettes cause lung cancer why are there people who never smoked who get lung cancer? *takes another puff and inhales deeply and coughs a little* . This cigarettes cause lung cancer stuff is a bunch of nonsense ...
because masks aren't perfect, we should have the government manufacturer the best masks possible for all at this point (not doable at the start but hello we are OVER 3 MONTHS IN), but we live in a banana republic without bananas and so we don't, and they still wouldn't be perfect, and even if they were there would be the little matter of human error.
mschrisgo2
6-30-20, 1:11am
In states like mine where masks are mandated, why are there still senior hours at stores? If the masks are so great senior hours, which predated the mask mandate, should no longer be necessary.
I’m so glad you asked. That exact question was asked at Trader Joe’s when I was there today. The answer? “So the polite seniors, following the rules, who don’t move as fast and cut in front of others, don’t get mowed down. We’re maintains a safe shopping environment.”
mschrisgo2
6-30-20, 1:23am
Nothing to plan for... vacations cancelled, all festivals, fairs, sporting events cancelled. Concerts, performances, shows of all kinds, cancelled. Hair and dentist appointments cancelled. Grocery shopping is the highlight twice a month. It does make one wonder...
and I was shocked today to learn a good friend, a fabulous singer- songwriter-musician and wonderful carpenter, passed away yesterday. A couple of days ago he told his wife his purpose on earth, to make people happy with live music, was done. She told him that was kind of melodramatic. Sunday morning he was gone. Just went to sleep Saturday night and didn’t wake up.
This is the 7th time since the first of the year that I’ve heard this story- people who appear to be totally healthy, in their 60s, go to sleep and just don’t wake up. Thousands of people are checking out with the virus, and many without the virus.
I’m so glad you asked. That exact question was asked at Trader Joe’s when I was there today. The answer? “So the polite seniors, following the rules, who don’t move as fast and cut in front of others, don’t get mowed down. We’re maintains a safe shopping environment.”
If that's the way the store sees it, that should be their prerogative but I don't think it should be a government mandate. Of course it's age stereotyping if not age discrimination, but people don't have to shop there.
I also think stores can say no mask no service just like they say no shirt or no shoes no service, but again I dislike an unfunded government mandate. Paying someone to stand at the front door policing this is one reason food prices are rising.
Some high end stores already had service by appointment also and that should also be their prerogative. Cue Bobby Brown!
My mother was out doing her recreational shopping thing yesterday and a truck rear ended her and totalled my parents' only car. I offered to get her groceries this week but according to her this is their off week when they don't go to the store. This may put a very brief dent in her excursions, but my dad was immediately talking about getting a rental car. The few germs she may avoid are probably offset by any she encountered being checked out at the hospital. The doctor told her to rest at home and I hope she does since she is very sore, but I am not optimistic.
Earlier we discussed closed bathrooms on hiking trails. I saw on the news today due to closed beach bathrooms people have been relieving themselves in the yards of people who live near the beach. Things need to open up. It's like people avoiding hospitals for strokes and heart attacks. Concern for one virus cannot blind us to all the other sanitation and health issues out there.
Chicken lady
6-30-20, 8:27am
Also, if we would get rid of the open container and drinking and driving laws, people might stop throwing partially empty beer cans into my yard as they approach the Main Street with the cop on it.
and maybe the drinking age. I think a lot of them are teenagers.
and if stores stopped charging money for things that are small and lightweight, we would have less shoplifting.
or, maybe somebody could kill someone who is pooping in their yard. The death of the security guard who tried to insist on enforcing the mask policy definitely put a damper on mask policies.
The closed bathroom thing has definitely affected our comings and goings. I am starting to feel like John Howard Griffin in Black Like Me.
All of these social changes have subtle impacts that we can't even begin to measure yet.
I don't equate this at all to open container laws, as those came about over a long period of time. Look at how North by Northwest treats Cary Grant's arrest for drunk driving, for example.
All of these laws evolved over time, and were not suddenly enacted, which creates a big difference for people.
Like seatbelt laws--I remember when those came in, and how unpopular they were, and how long people took to adapt.
So I don't think it's particularly helpful to create these analogies. I remember in the 1918 Influenza video, that mask hysteria reached a point where a police officer shot someone for not wearing a mask. I personally think that the speed of these changes, with no warning and buy-in, creates stress and violence, but that's just my humble opinion.
Mask test:
https://www.boredpanda.com/no-mask-vs-mask-experiment-rich-davis/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=BPFacebook&fbclid=IwAR3QZTLf-eLnNscdOEASUMeOKo1eLMhWSD3WkulNF3cR9afVdOg6ACSfjs0
Not to mention I love the pants on the right side of the page.
ApatheticNoMore
6-30-20, 12:01pm
Things need to open up. It's like people avoiding hospitals for strokes and heart attacks.
They are fast approaching the point I suspect here (not necessarily all of Cali) where elective procedures are going to be shut down AGAIN because of overuse of hospital beds (due to elective procedures plus covid).
Now we'll see, but I do know this has ALREADY HAPPENED in at least one state (was it AZ or TX I don't know one of them). They again had to shut down elective procedures. Oh blah blah it's just overreaction we'll get, but these are states that didn't even want to shut much down again AT ALL and wanted to open up quickly (as do most really). But .... they are being driven by the virus, by necessity, reality has that little way of interfering. Then you'll see people not treated for strokes and heart attacks when the hospitals get overwhelmed.
But keep twisting that only closing things leads to unnecessarily death not overwhelming the hospital system. Just keep saying that.
As for beaches, they were opened but closed again entirely (not just the bathrooms) for the holidays. Why? Steeply rising covid cases.
I talked to my bf about just taking a long drive somewhere at one point in covid, and we determined that few places might let us use their bathrooms, nor would we feel safe using them! Short drives we take, may not be helping the planet any frankly, but covid safe.
You can get devices that allow women to pee standing up, if you're OK with finding a bush to relieve yourself behind.
Chicken lady
6-30-20, 12:33pm
Tybee,
I’m pretty sure it has been illegal to use soneone else’s yard as a toilet for a long time. The closed bathrooms are not new laws. They are just closed bathrooms.
so no, my comments weren’t equivalent. But I think equally ridiculous. The problem of people breaking the law being solved not by enforcing the law, but by creating a public health risk as incentive for the lawbreakers to stop.
perhaps a better equivalency would be that we should provide free public accommodations in resort towns to anybody who wants them to keep people from sleeping on the beach. Or free community sex workers - no prophylaxis required, to avoid illegal prostitution.
iris lilies
6-30-20, 12:46pm
Those darn scientists. Getting all sciency and changing their theories as more information becomes available. How dare they! Next thing you know some damn scientist will have the nerve to proclaim that he suspects cholera is spread by contaminated drinking water...
...Or do you just want to bitch about the scientists because "yeah! Scientists suck!"
Sadly, I’m related to a pretty famous scientist so am unable to discount science completely because they will disown me. This video and article about my uncle are going around again on Facebook in my family. I don’t know what prompted it.
But the tl;dr is my brain is probably diminished because I have lead in my system. Where as you, JP, being a good 10 years younger have the advantage of higher IQ because my uncle removed the lead from our environment.
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/94569/clair-patterson-scientist-who-determined-age-earth-and-then-saved-it
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QvHQnWFWnIg
Tybee,
I’m pretty sure it has been illegal to use soneone else’s yard as a toilet for a long time. The closed bathrooms are not new laws. They are just closed bathrooms.
so no, my comments weren’t equivalent. But I think equally ridiculous. The problem of people breaking the law being solved not by enforcing the law, but by creating a public health risk as incentive for the lawbreakers to stop.
perhaps a better equivalency would be that we should provide free public accommodations in resort towns to anybody who wants them to keep people from sleeping on the beach. Or free community sex workers - no prophylaxis required, to avoid illegal prostitution.
I really don't follow what you are saying; although I get you are exaggerating for effect. I think that is a problem, that people are not listening to others but instead going for clever put downs when they express a contradictory opinion. A few unpopular posters express what seem to be way out opinions to the majority, so the majority resorts to name calling, ridicule, and hyperbole. So be it. Even though the unpopular posters are not doing that, just expressing an unpopular opinion. So I hear your put down, and I get it. I expressed my opinion that behavioral laws are always going to be met with resistance, and it is up to those making the laws to figure out how best to get compliance, and that people don't buy in to new behaviors be being shamed and called names. That was my point, and sure, it's an easy one to ridicule.
flowerseverywhere
7-1-20, 6:49am
If that's the way the store sees it, that should be their prerogative but I don't think it should be a government mandate. Of course it's age stereotyping if not age discrimination, but people don't have to shop there.
I also think stores can say no mask no service just like they say no shirt or no shoes no service, but again I dislike an unfunded government mandate. Paying someone to stand at the front door policing this is one reason food prices are rising.
Some high end stores already had service by appointment also and that should also be their prerogative. Cue Bobby Brown!
paying one person to stand at the front of the store is a reason food prices are rising? Any proof?
if you multiply the wage plus benefits by the twelve or so hours someone is by the front door, then add up every item that was purchased during those hours I can’t imagine it would be much per item, if even a Penny. When I do my grocery pickup I see streams of people coming out with full carts non stop.
https://www.today.com/food/why-are-grocery-prices-rising-t181700
like all things in our society, prices of food are dependent on our ever complicated supply chain. Not crediting
one minuscule piece of a multi faceted problem to fit your narrative.
If we cannot make accommodations to the elderly or disabled who might take advantage of these hours we have no value as a civil society. At our stores senior hours were not every day, but certain days per week and not the same days at every store. Maybe we will be lucky and Covid-19, the great boomer remover, will cull the herd and those pesky old and disabled people will die. Maybe we can just put old and disabled people to sleep. Way less messy and expensive.
It seems grocery prices have ticked up some, probably partly to cover extra sanitizing and personnel. Seems fair to me.
happystuff
7-1-20, 11:05am
It seems grocery prices have ticked up some, probably partly to cover extra sanitizing and personnel. Seems fair to me.
I just went to the store today and I am starting to see empty shelves again. Was surprised that a lot of the canned goods shelves were empty. I'm starting to think the price increases are due to supply-and-demand, production costs down the line, etc. I don't think we've seen the end of actual food shortages and rising prices yet.
I just went to the store today and I am starting to see empty shelves again. Was surprised that a lot of the canned goods shelves were empty. I'm starting to think the price increases are due to supply-and-demand, production costs down the line, etc. I don't think we've seen the end of actual food shortages and rising prices yet.
I agree! I noticed the same thing.
Teacher Terry
7-1-20, 12:36pm
Grocery prices have been going up here for the past year. Our shelves are full. Even when I was young I was all for seniors getting discounts, etc. Senior hours to shop are no different. We don’t use it but I am glad it’s available. People are pretty nice here compared to places like City Data. There’s some real nut jobs there that start amusing conspiracy threads about the virus. It’s funny to read until it sinks in that people really believe that stuff.
Chicken lady
7-1-20, 12:41pm
It was exasperation. Sarcasm. an attempt to point out that one does not solve a problem by creating more problems. Ridicule and disbelief of the position, not aimed at the person.
But I think perhaps I should go back to salad spinners.
i was raised by someone who treated almost every action by almost any person with “I’m sure they mean well.”
it has taken 52 years, but the last eight weeks have Transformed me from an extreme introvert to an actual misanthrope.
i realized yesterday that I no longer believe that the majority of people are fundamentally good. And so perhaps I should stop engaging with them and resort to the deal I have made with raccoons - if they don’t insist on inflicting themselves on me in ways that directly impact my life in a negative way despite my attempts to cede nearly the entire planet to them and exclude them from the tiny remainder, I will leave them alone.
not clicking on threads that annoy me would be a first step. I seem easily annoyed this days, so if you need me for anything, try messages.
Teacher Terry
7-1-20, 12:48pm
CL, it sounds like your mom was positive and looking for the best in people. Better that then to be paranoid.
It was exasperation. Sarcasm. an attempt to point out that one does not solve a problem by creating more problems. Ridicule and disbelief of the position, not aimed at the person.
You addressed me by name, and I responded to you.
Anyway, I'm not trying to fight with anyone, I am trying to point out that I think shaming people and ridiculing them will not help to achieve whatever social engineering one is trying to accomplish.
On June 18th Governor Newsom mandated masks in California but corona cases continue to spike. It is 9 days now. Let's see if in 5 more days things reverse course there, since that will be 2 weeks that masks have had the chance to work their supposed magic.
Tomorrow is two weeks and today California hit another record high number of cases. Let's see if things magically improve overnight. With a two week incubation period for covid the masks, if they really work, will stop this spike in less than 24 hours.
ApatheticNoMore
7-1-20, 7:10pm
Masks were an attempt to open things up without increasing the virus to the point it overwhelms the hospital system. Whether it could work with perfect compliance who knows, some say so based on models, but you don't get perfect compliance in present reality esp in the U.S. at this point. Maybe after enough deaths and sicknesses and enough opening and reclosing again and again, maybe then you get compliance with wearing a piece of clothing.
More stuff is being locked down again, Cali going into partial lockdown again. I never thought they should have opened stuff up period, it was foolish and it was rushed, and some health officials objected and said exactly that. And they opened stuff up where masks could not POSSIBLY be worn like restaurants and bars, now they are closing. Perhaps our powers that be here do have *some* interest in keeping R at 1 or close or below, as without it you get ever increasing cases and eventually overwhelm the medical system. I was afraid they would go for that "screw the medical system, full speed ahead". But perhaps not.
BTW you don't see results from anything in a two week period, you are again making things up, NYC went into a hard lockdown after their crisis and didn't see declining cases until more like a month.
Perhaps someone will come up with a proboscis mask for the die-hard drinkers among us. :idea:
Perhaps someone will come up with a proboscis mask for the die-hard drinkers among us. :idea:
Perhaps we need to rethink the whole anti-straw thing. We could have masks with a small opening for straws. No removal required to drink! Then bars could open up somewhat safely...
My son has a respirator he bought a long time ago. He says it is much easier to breathe through it than through a mask. Respirators actually provide protection too unlike random pieces of cloth. Why are they not being promoted? Politics my friend.
My son has a respirator he bought a long time ago. He says it is much easier to breathe through it than through a mask. Respirators actually provide protection too unlike random pieces of cloth. Why are they not being promoted? Politics my friend.
It’s not politics. It’s that there are nowhere near 300 million respirators available. If everyone would wear a damn mask they would go a long way towards protecting the well from the infected people. You know that.
ApatheticNoMore
7-2-20, 4:35pm
What are we talking respirators anyway, N95 masks, or those plastic respirator things? Like this: https://www.grainger.com/product/3M-3M-Half-Mask-Respirator-5T569
I'm not sure many of the latter were ever designed for medical usage, some are, but I suspect many were designed for labor of the sort that generates lots of dust etc.. So their effectiveness, who knows. Some say much of covid is droplet transmission (the whole droplet v aerosols thing) so then ANY of it AND faceshields as well would probably work for droplets.
It's just with a respirator you are going to look like: I'm ready for World War I, bring on the mustard gas! It's a scary look … But if that what it takes to get people to cover their face … who knew.
I think I posted somewhere around here the measured respiratory effort for different sorts of masks/respirators.
Science and data often disagree with "my son said...".
Here's some N95 data:
https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/55/8/917/265317
Since we wear these respirators while doing heavy labor, we do a fair bit of training in how to manage our breathing and work output safely, and we have telemetry of some of our vitals for real-time feedback and correction.
Mask effectiveness, by type of material, off-the-presses Tuesday:
https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0016018
Mask effectiveness, by type of material, off-the-presses Tuesday:
https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0016018
Interesting and useful information. Thanks.
That meshes well with my "mask test" post. And I'm glad to see all those busy mask makers out there are doing some good.
I was thinking about Wuhan. Fireworks were invented in China, but people there did not respond to a lockdown by setting off fireworks. They stayed home until they were told they could leave home and then obediently wore masks. Americans are a different breed.
I am happy to live in the USA with what some see as the wretched refuse "yearning to breathe free".
Teacher Terry
7-3-20, 12:09pm
We bought more masks so don’t have to wash so much. The countries that are most compliant will have less deaths, disabilities and will get their lives back sooner. Unfortunately because of stupid people our country won’t be in that category.
I was thinking about Wuhan. Fireworks were invented in China, but people there did not respond to a lockdown by setting off fireworks. They stayed home until they were told they could leave home and then obediently wore masks. Americans are a different breed.
I am happy to live in the USA with what some see as the wretched refuse "yearning to be free to die and kill others with covid".
Fixed it for you.
I thought this article in the Washington Post was enlightening. It interviews Fauci and four other leading disease experts with questions about how they handle day-to-day situations like handling mail and groceries, dining out, doctor visits, meeting with friends and family, gyms, and exercise. I subscribe, but I think they are offering free access to Covid-19 articles. There are some obvious unknowns and there was not total agreement on everything, but all are very cautious.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/how-fauci-5-other-health-specialists-deal-with-covid-19-risks-in-their-everyday-lives/2020/07/02/d4665ed6-b6fb-11ea-a510-55bf26485c93_story.html
I bicycle about two hours most days on a local recreational trail. I go in the early hours when it is not busy, but will still encounter a few dozen walkers and cyclists. Very few wear a mask and as the trail is only about ten feet wide social distancing is unlikely for very short time periods where one passes another. I wear a neck gator, doubled up and pulled up over my face. It's thin enough to not restrict too much air flow and is not especially hot. I worry about the risk and wish more would wear a mask, but the risk seems low and one I'm willing to take (so far) to be outside and get some exercise. Other wise I think I am mostly inline with the experts.
Interesting article Rogar. What struck me was the elitism. Many respondents had a cleaning person. Some quotes:
"I would die if I didn't do takeout."
"I have a pool at home."
"I had a gym built into my house."
Quite a difference from the way many front line workers, a significant number of whom earn minimum wage, live.
My local LA Fitness is getting weird. First day they said they didn’t want me putting a grocery bag with my sandals and a purse on the floor. Wanted me to actually surrender my purse to them to put at front desk! Nope! Employee said next time no bag on the floor.
Yesterday I went in with a small fanny pack I use when bike riding outside. I hung it off bike hand grip. Not touching floor at all. Different employee got pissy about me having a bag. I suggested he look at the other exercisers who had large bags on the floor by their cardio machines. He slunk away and left me alone.
Why I need a bag of some sort is that you have to wipe down the machines with paper towels and a disinfectant when you’re done. It is far away from the bike. I need both hands free. I’m not leaving my keys, phone, wireless headphones, and good stainless steel water bottle on the bike for someone to steal while I’m getting the stuff to wipe the bike down.
Makes no freaking sense.
Interesting article Rogar. What struck me was the elitism. Many respondents had a cleaning person...
I suppose being a national leading disease expert pays pretty well and they can afford a few luxuries, as well as dedicating a lot of time to their work instead of house cleaning. I don't know if I'd call that elitism, but I don't think it diminishes their testimonies.
Teacher Terry
7-3-20, 2:04pm
Many middle class people have cleaners. I had one monthly as did my friends when we worked full time. Take out can be fast food so poor people get that. If I was wealthy I would have those other amenities they mentioned.
ApatheticNoMore
7-3-20, 2:17pm
Many middle class people have cleaners. I had one monthly as did my friends when we worked full time. Take out can be fast food so poor people get that. If I was wealthy I would have those other amenities they mentioned.
Of course. My coworker, who worries a lot about germs, still has a cleaner come in. In this pandemic, I wouldn't do it (no that I did otherwise - I mean there is no infinite money font, I can buy that or organic food is almost it).
I only had a cable guy come (for internet) after nearly 3 months of working from home on painfully slow internet (work got done and fairly productively as well, the downsides of that were mostly suffered by me not work, it was all about fighting my internet every day. Then after they came I left home for hours before going back home). Minimum wage though, noone confuses minimum wage with middle class. I don't have my own gym, there are times I have thought of exercise machines though, in a one bedroom but so what, might not make sense. Meantime there are hand weights etc.. Not ideal, yea well since when has anything been in this pandemic.
I thought this article in the Washington Post was enlightening. It interviews Fauci and four other leading disease experts with questions about how they handle day-to-day situations like handling mail and groceries, dining out, doctor visits, meeting with friends and family, gyms, and exercise. I subscribe, but I think they are offering free access to Covid-19 articles. There are some obvious unknowns and there was not total agreement on everything, but all are very cautious.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/how-fauci-5-other-health-specialists-deal-with-covid-19-risks-in-their-everyday-lives/2020/07/02/d4665ed6-b6fb-11ea-a510-55bf26485c93_story.html
Thanks for sharing that. It was interesting getting a number of different perspectives from people who actually know the science and facts as well as anyone can, and seeing that even the experts don't agree on every single thing. But certain things were pretty much all agreed on. No indoor restaurants. Spacing outside. Masks whenever in the presence of others. Keep away from friends that aren't being as cautious as you are.
I'm in line with all the precautions that would pertain to my life, although I no longer go out to shop.
Great article Roger. Thanks.
I’m sharing it with my family and friends who often ask me the hard questions that are addressed in this article. Basically, “how do we go about our daily lives for the long term, to mitigate risk but still do the necessary things?”
iris lilies
7-3-20, 3:48pm
Interesting article Rogar. What struck me was the elitism. Many respondents had a cleaning person. Some quotes:
"I would die if I didn't do takeout."
"I have a pool at home."
"I had a gym built into my house."
Quite a difference from the way many front line workers, a significant number of whom earn minimum wage, live.
I was relieved that none of them are hiring anyone to wipe down theIr purchases from the grocery store. A couple of them to set their purchases aside for a day without touching them. I was doing that for a while, but stopped and maybe I’ll go back to it.
I was relieved that none of them are hiring anyone to wipe down theIr purchases from the grocery store. A couple of them to set their purchases aside for a day without touching them. I was doing that for a while, but stopped and maybe I’ll go back to it.
Yeah--I'm not too concerned any more with wiping down and such, thought I wash my hands thoroughly after bringing groceries in, and observe a lag time in dealing with some deliveries.
I was relieved that none of them are hiring anyone to wipe down theIr purchases from the grocery store. A couple of them to set their purchases aside for a day without touching them. I was doing that for a while, but stopped and maybe I’ll go back to it.
I never got in the habit of that. What I’ve done all along is try to buy non-perishables far enough ahead of time that I can just put them in the cabinet when I get home and by the time we will touch them again enough time will have passed.
Good article. Thanks for posting it. I'm thinking I need to let groceries sit for a bit, I don't think I do well with those. I do have a sibling who wipes everything down and is SUPER vigilant with everything. But then, the spouse is a transplant survivor as well as dealing with various cancers currently and the past couple years - chemo, radiation, other treatments continuously! They really do live in fear of this virus, as it would be a death sentence to the spouse. I can't even imagine living with that kind of fear on a daily basis. Again, another reason to mask-up - not only for yourself, but you never know what is happening with the folks around you!!!!
Tomorrow is two weeks and today California hit another record high number of cases. Let's see if things magically improve overnight. With a two week incubation period for covid the masks, if they really work, will stop this spike in less than 24 hours.
Over two weeks now since California mandated masks and the Bay Area, strict all along, is in as bad shape as it was at its peak in April, whilst Oklahoma site of the maskless Trump rally is not featured in the news as a hot spot.
If mask advocates tell you they have all the answers, don't listen to them. The virus doesn't. It goes its own merry way, and is already mutating to ensure it can continue to spread and live.
Over two weeks now since California mandated masks and the Bay Area, strict all along, is in as bad shape as it was at its peak in April, whilst Oklahoma site of the maskless Trump rally is not featured in the news as a hot spot.
If mask advocates tell you they have all the answers, don't listen to them. The virus doesn't. It goes its own merry way, and is already mutating to ensure it can continue to spread and live.
I’m not sure you know California geography very well.
happystuff, hubby was just told a worker he worked with building a home last week at Habitat has a fever and went to get tested. Even though they took all the precautions and they were good ones, it is still very stressful waiting. We cancelled a breakfast with his mother for today just in case.
Teacher Terry
7-5-20, 11:55am
My DIL is glad she didn’t get her haircut because one of the workers there has it.
Was invited to the neighbor's for an informal birthday celebration with (mostly) people from his church. I counted 14 people (a few leaving as we arrived; some arriving after us) plus us plus the guest of honor and his wife and not one. damn. mask besides ours. Not even on the GoH and his DW, both of whom are undergoing treatment for cancer and who have other "underlying conditions". Nothing I would call "social distancing" either. We stayed long enough to pay our respects and went back home.
I realize the odds of infection are relatively low in our little corner of Minnesota. But they're not nothing, especially if people are going to pretend this virus does not exist.
*smh*
Was invited to the neighbor's for an informal birthday celebration with (mostly) people from his church. I counted 14 people (a few leaving as we arrived; some arriving after us) plus us plus the guest of honor and his wife and not one. damn. mask besides ours. Not even on the GoH and his DW, both of whom are undergoing treatment for cancer and who have other "underlying conditions". Nothing I would call "social distancing" either. We stayed long enough to pay our respects and went back home.
I realize the odds of infection are relatively low in our little corner of Minnesota. But they're not nothing, especially if people are going to pretend this virus does not exist.
*smh*
:(
So unfortunate...
Teacher Terry
7-6-20, 12:08pm
Our neighbors invited us to their daughter’s high school graduation party in their backyard. It was full of people and we didn’t go.
iris lilies
7-6-20, 12:15pm
There is an anti-mask proponents on our Nextdoor site. He claims to have years of medical experience but, hummmmmm.
I’m not sure why the anti-maskers are so invested in that.
For me, with my simple life, it is easy to wear a mask the very few times I go into a enclosed building where there are other people present. So that means I wear a mask maybe twice a week? If that. I certainly am not gonna wear one whenever I go off my property because I do that with the intention of not running into any other humans.
I will admit to being inside a restaurant three times in the past four months, Only one time of which I wore a mask. But one of those times I had not planned to be intentionally inside, in a county where there has been 4 or 6 virus cases total.But in that same restaurant it’s a big tourist site so there’s that.
I just don’t get what the big deal is about wearing a mask in situations where it is easy to wear a mask. It would not be easy for me to wear a mask when I’m gardening, if I were exercising in the gym, in hot humid days where I’m walking around the park, etc.
Teacher Terry
7-6-20, 12:26pm
Here we are supposed to wear masks even outside. I wear it around my neck and if I pass someone outside and can’t cross the street to avoid them I pull it up. We have to wear them at restaurants unless you are sitting at a table. We have some nutty anti mask people on Nextdoor too. Your real name appears with what you post and yet people still post ignorant comments.
ApatheticNoMore
7-6-20, 12:39pm
I’m not sure you know California geography very well.
nor weather. it's a fact air conditioning will be running in say office buildings year round nearly, you won't escape it in an office even if you are huddling in a ball trying not to freeze, and if not that then heat which may not be any better, not sure we know, but it's the same hvac. It's not the case it's been that hot that outdoor gatherings weren't pleasant, we're getting into hot just the last few days. August and Sept in SoCal will be the real scorchers.
As for the bay area at this point:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/seriously-ill-covid-19-imperial-valley-residents-moved-to-san-francisco-bay-area-hospitals/ar-BB16opwJ
the Mexican border it's own thing but much of CA problems if giving l.a. the variance to open when it didn't meet state criteria although it's rising everywhere.
I saw in the news today that 239 scientists published a letter criticizing the commonly held beliefs about coronavirus. They say it is not just spread by large droplets, but by very fine aerosolized spray. As such, only N95 masks specially fitted to one's face will stop it. I was happy to see this scientific support for my position. Maybe I do know something after all!
Teacher Terry
7-7-20, 2:05pm
:doh: Even if it’s true doing nothing is still worse than wearing masks, social distancing, etc. It’s the same as saying since condoms don’t work 100% let’s not use them at all.
I saw in the news today that 239 scientists published a letter criticizing the commonly held beliefs about coronavirus. They say it is not just spread by large droplets, but by very fine aerosolized spray. As such, only N95 masks specially fitted to one's face will stop it. I was happy to see this scientific support for my position. Maybe I do know something after all!
This article? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/04/health/239-experts-with-one-big-claim-the-coronavirus-is-airborne.html
I suggest you re-read it.
Quote from article:
The coronavirus is finding new victims worldwide, in bars and restaurants, offices, markets and casinos, giving rise to frightening clusters of infection that increasingly confirm what many scientists have been saying for months: The virus lingers in the air indoors, infecting those nearby.
If airborne transmission is a significant factor in the pandemic, especially in crowded spaces with poor ventilation, the consequences for containment will be significant. Masks may be needed indoors, even in socially-distant settings. Health care workers may need N95 masks that filter out even the smallest respiratory droplets as they care for coronavirus patients.
My take-away is... WEAR A MASK!
I saw in the news today that 239 scientists published a letter criticizing the commonly held beliefs about coronavirus. They say it is not just spread by large droplets, but by very fine aerosolized spray. As such, only N95 masks specially fitted to one's face will stop it. I was happy to see this scientific support for my position. Maybe I do know something after all!
You can't just read the words in a study that agree with your preconceptions, and then claim victory, Jon Snow...
ApatheticNoMore
7-9-20, 9:13pm
someone (in the U.S.!) mentioned hearing about covid being in this or that location from contract tracing and I almost fell off my chair, wait how could that exist? I mean we don't actually do contract tracing in the U.S. do we, politicians like to talk about it sure, but very little really happening as far as anyone is able to ascertain (seems darn hard to ascertain). Well yes Virginia (I don't know about in Virginia) apparently there is contract tracing going on. Most of the whole north east is entirely serious about it and doing it on everyone, but in California barely any (I knew it, the whole thing was a black hole mystery that politicians would talk about here and there, in fact I've heard people tracking data say they had little data on the extent of contract tracing >8), but I finally found some data fwiw). No, it's not a panacea for covid, it was just a mystery to me.
Here's Oregon:
https://www.covidactnow.org/us/or?s=647107
We do contact tracing in my county and have done so since Day One of this.
My aunt is a nurse and her skills could be used in this outbreak but she has taken retirement since she is worried, not about contracting the virus, but about breathing in her own carbon dioxide by wearing a mask 8 hours a day.
We do contact tracing in our community, too.
The Bay Area is also very much doing contact tracing. But we are fortunate to have fairly robust social services here. And a willingness to provide money And other assistance to people who have covid but can’t afford to lose income by quarantining, etc. Trying to set up tracing somewhere like Florida is likely to be less successful for any number of reasons.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/Bay-Area-contact-tracing-shows-early-signs-of-15372556.php
We're doing contact tracing in VT, too.
My aunt is a nurse and her skills could be used in this outbreak but she has taken retirement since she is worried, not about contracting the virus, but about breathing in her own carbon dioxide by wearing a mask 8 hours a day.
Hilarious. Tell us another!
sweetana3
7-10-20, 12:05pm
Alaska is doing contact tracing and when they hit a roadblock with bars, they simply put the names of all the bars with issues in the local paper. Got a lot of people's attention. I noticed in some areas, the places with a positive employee are named and closed until cleaned. Here in IN, they want us to not know. I found out my favorite baker and her husband had it as did one or more of her employees.
iris lilies
7-10-20, 12:17pm
My brother was a tester for one day in a meat packing facility. He said 50% tested positive.
How do you track with that kind of rate? Record keeping seems monumentous. Good employment for bureaucrats, I guess.
ApatheticNoMore
7-10-20, 12:25pm
The Bay Area is also very much doing contact tracing. But we are fortunate to have fairly robust social services here. And a willingness to provide money And other assistance to people who have covid but can’t afford to lose income by quarantining, etc. Trying to set up tracing somewhere like Florida is likely to be less successful for any number of reasons.
I'm not sure what is going on here, I don't think anything, CA was as granular data as I could get. I guess the Bay Area just does better because they have lots of rich people and way less poor people, and that's the ticket. Trust me I probably pay all the same tax rates (oh wait sales tax is more here, over 10% - true much for designated usage, but believe it we pay for good government, but when it comes time to deliver it's always lost in the mail). Local government is always continuously relentlessly bad, but could be much worse of course! I think at this point they may be deliberately suppressing testing locally. I mean look I know there are supply issues blah blah, but positivity rate is huge and they are saying cases are down … uh … shakes head. So at the least they are lying to us.
I do think Cali in general has a policy to pay people for 14 days of having to quarantine. The problem is it seems very few people KNOW about that policy and what use is a policy few use because few know about. Employers aren't telling people, who is.
Teacher Terry
7-10-20, 12:31pm
Nurses and doctors are used to wearing masks their entire shifts in surgical and other areas. Either your aunt is not a nurse or she is crazy. If it’s the latter good thing she is retired.
Teacher Terry
7-10-20, 12:32pm
Nurses and doctors are used to wearing masks their entire shifts in surgical and other areas. Either your aunt is not a nurse or she is crazy. If it’s the latter good thing she is retired.
My aunt is a nurse and her skills could be used in this outbreak but she has taken retirement since she is worried, not about contracting the virus, but about breathing in her own carbon dioxide by wearing a mask 8 hours a day.
One day this week I was in a hurry to get to the grocery store in the morning and forgot to floss and brush my teeth. My bad breath trapped in the mask sort of grossed me out.
gimmethesimplelife
7-10-20, 3:55pm
Arizona is just a mess right now with this. It's scary as the one thing this state has historically had going for it - quick access to the human rights of offshoring health and dental and optical care to Mexico - may become a thing of the past due to Covid. This would greatly decrease the competitive advantage of living in Arizona and would also increase the citizenship risk of living in Arizona to the level of states much further from the border. Not to mention the escalating numbers of deaths and also severely ill people. Arizona really is quickly losing that which it once had going for it. Rob
Teacher Terry
7-10-20, 4:31pm
My brother lives in Prescott and because they don’t have the virus they are holding all sorts of summer events. So stupid! They aren’t going anywhere of course because he has a serious lung condition that he developed at 35.
ApatheticNoMore
7-10-20, 5:13pm
I heard (news) AZ is going to triage the sick and not even try to treat everyone if it can't but only those with the best chances of making it. This is called "activating crisis care standards" (hey I'm not a medical person it's just how it's being reported)
So it's a trainwreck. No offense though, we aren't doing very well here in Southern California either. :0! Be safe out there.
I heard (news) AZ is going to triage the sick and not even try to treat everyone if it can't but only those with the best chances of making it. This is called "activating crisis care standards" (hey I'm not a medical person it's just how it's being reported)
So it's a trainwreck. No offense though, we aren't doing very well here in Southern California either. :0! Be safe out there.
Yes, if it's what I've heard of it's kind of reverse triage, where the more comorbidities you have, the less treatment you receive, the older you are, the less treatment you receive, etc.
We just lost a 34-year old man here in our community. He was days from closing on a house and making his wedding plans.
The guy [a shirttail cousin to my girls] who was to be his best man said,
“I’m supposed to be standing next him as he marries his best friend. I can’t even stand next to him to bury him. And people want to be mad about having to wear a mask.”
https://www.columbian.com/news/2020/jul/09/coronavirus-claims-34-year-old-vancouver-man/
Look at him! Look how vital he looks! And he was working from home!
Treatment for covid is changing, with medical personnel now less likely to intubate patients or put them on ventilators because of the negative side effects vs oxygen. This makes a lot of sense to me, especially if oxygen is fed in only through the nose and the mouth is free. Anything covering up your face and interfering with your breathing freely is bad news, including masks.
I guarantee even the rah rah masks people whip them off as soon as they get home, and no one says it's so comfortable it's just like another piece of clothing and I forget I have it on.
Yes, if it's what I've heard of it's kind of reverse triage, where the more comorbidities you have, the less treatment you receive, the older you are, the less treatment you receive, etc.
Sounds like those "death panels" people were talking about a few years ago. But single-payer health coverage for everyone doesn't exist so this must be happening with ... private insurance? How can that be???
Teacher Terry
7-10-20, 7:12pm
I have a full face mask with my cpap machine and it helps me breathe much better.
iris lilies
7-10-20, 7:21pm
We just lost a 34-year old man here in our community. He was days from closing on a house and making his wedding plans.
The guy [a shirttail cousin to my girls] who was to be his best man said,
“I’m supposed to be standing next him as he marries his best friend. I can’t even stand next to him to bury him. And people want to be mad about having to wear a mask.”
https://www.columbian.com/news/2020/jul/09/coronavirus-claims-34-year-old-vancouver-man/
Look at him! Look how vital he looks! And he was working from home!
That is really too bad about that young guy. This disease is so squirrely— predictable victims to a large extent but not certain victims
Anything covering up your face and interfering with your breathing freely is bad news, including masks.
People who know that they have covid shouldn't need masks since they should be quarantining.
I guarantee even the rah rah masks people whip them off as soon as they get home, and no one says it's so comfortable it's just like another piece of clothing and I forget I have it on.
Of course people take their masks off at home. There's no one around for them to potentially infect. Back when I used to have to wear a suit to work everyday I took it off as soon as I got home as well. In that case because there was no one around for whom I needed to look professional.
Chicken lady
7-10-20, 7:54pm
Tybee, I don’t think it’s reverse triage, the point if triage as I understand it is to use the resources for the people who are most likely to survive if you get to them first. Maybe that’s not the usual process. My understanding comes from my grandfather who was a WWII surgeon.
I have been doing to the gym since they reopened a couple of weeks ago. I am absolutely gobsmacked by the number of seniors that are coming in. And a large number of them are rather ill looking folks
That is pure triage. The ethical issues it raises is who do you save? The discussion in NY was when all else failed, toss a coin. This was told on a video grand rounds discussion on what happened in NY. It was by the doctor who figured out how to use a ventilator for two carefully matched patients. Never been done before and many issues were discussed. They used informed consent.
: the sorting of and allocation of treatment to patients and especially battle and disaster victims according to a system of priorities designed to maximize the number of survivors. 2 : the sorting of patients (as in an emergency room) according to the urgency of their need for care.
The issues raised are what sorting decisions are used and who decides. Age, disability, comorbidity, race, gender, income, insurance, etc.
Teacher Terry
7-10-20, 8:43pm
CL, you are right. If you cannot save everyone you save the most likely to make it. I totally agree.
Tradd, i am a senior and was happy to be back at my exercise class. We wear a mask unless we are actively doing the class (although we can wear one the whole time). We are well distanced and disinfect anything we touch before and after. I dont stay and socialize or we just talk to one another from 6 feet or more away. We are not in a state with huge hot spots and I stay away from activities that involve people with the exception of my class.
Tradd, i am a senior and was happy to be back at my exercise class. We wear a mask unless we are actively doing the class (although we can wear one the whole time). We are well distanced and disinfect anything we touch before and after. I dont stay and socialize or we just talk to one another from 6 feet or more away. We are not in a state with huge hot spots and I stay away from activities that involve people with the exception of my class.
These folks also use the bikes, like I do. Only every other machine is in use. I'm just surprised that so many really ill looking seniors are actually going to the gym.
Triage actually has a component where you don’t helo those that are certain to die. You also don’t help those that just need stitches. You help those who are in deep trouble but are probably able to be saved.
Triage actually has a component where you don’t helo those that are certain to die. You also don’t help those that just need stitches. You help those who are in deep trouble but are probably able to be saved.
Yes, I understand. I did not coin the term "reverse" but that is what it has been called. I think we all understand the point about saving those who are most likely to make it, which is certainly like battle triage, of course.
So I get it, but if you are over 60, as I am, and have co-existing conditions, as I do, it certainly changes what I a likely to encounter at an ER. I think that is what folks who called it "reverse triage" intended, but again, I understand completely what you are all saying and have no comment on whether it is right or wrong or ethical or anything else.
With simply not enough beds and ventilators to go around, our only choice is to triage. I often wonder what else people would have us do? We can’t pull ventilators out of thin air. We are doing the best with what we have. All broader discussions of ethics just becomes a moot point when you’re on the front lines.
In other news I was tested for Covid yesterday because I have a few symptoms. It feels pretty much like an upper respiratory infection that I’ve had many times before, but following our hospital guidelines I got tested and I’m home until the test results and my symptoms clear.
The one big take away from the last four months for me, is the acceptance of uncertainty and the acceptance that we all die sometime.
Arizona is now the epicenter of this thing globally, and I live in our largest city, Phoenix, and I work at our large public safety net hospital. So I’m at the center of the center. Other than I don’t work In ICUs, as I work in behavioral health. However we have two units full of Covid positive behavioral health patients and I’m the manager of one of them.
With simply not enough beds and ventilators to go around, our only choice is to triage. I often wonder what else people would have us do? We can’t pull ventilators out of thin air. We are doing the best with what we have. All broader discussions of ethics just becomes a moot point when you’re on the front lines.
As I said, I was not discussing ethics or morality, just discussing the terms and concepts that were being explored in the discussion. I do think that is a very legitimate undertaking, to understand what people are saying and to shine light on what is happening.
Hoping your test comes back fine, and that you feel better soon!
early morning
7-11-20, 11:32am
To Tammy and everyone else involved in first response, elder, medical and psychiatric care in today's world - THANK YOU, and take care of yourselves as best you can.
iris lilies
7-11-20, 12:31pm
Tammy, wishing you well.
Tybee, I see nothing wrong in talking about the harsh realities of medical care resources. I am on record for advocating for death panels in the event we go fullbore public health care.
I don’t understand people who Wring their hands and pretend that there are unlimited resources for everything. There are not. But I’m also not sure sure that human lives over the economy and the general welfare of the population is the way we should be looking at this whole deal.
But as usual I’m glad I’m not in charge of much of anything anymore. All the gubmnt officials are earning their salaries these days.
Teacher Terry
7-11-20, 12:37pm
Tammy wishing you the best. I certainly wouldn’t want to be working in health care with this virus.
catherine
7-11-20, 12:42pm
Tammy, God bless you for all you are doing, and may s/he keep you healthy and safe.
ApatheticNoMore
7-11-20, 1:09pm
The thing is it's not just some typical limitation of resources, as far as I can tell, AZ is the only state in the U.S. that has activated crisis care standards so far, or ever in U.S. history, more could of course, so it's not just "oh that's the way things are". It happened in Italy of course. Really shouldn't let the virus get so out of hand to be at this point, at that point it's not even controlled spread (which of course may not be possible anyway) but uncontrolled where you have literally overwhelmed the hospital system, ie the worst case scenario.
Healthcare workers sometimes have PPE so might be in less danger than many who don't, as the grocery store worker doesn't, the meatpacker doesn't, etc., of course healthcare workers also sometimes don't either as we know, due to chronic shortages! But if you're having to follow crisis standards about who to even try to save that can cause a whole psychological toll of it's own, never mind people suffer and die even if you have the resources to treat everyone as best as we are able, and even all the other states that have not activated "crisis care standards" it seems are running low on what somewhat effective therapeutics like Remdesevar exist. The results of this thing will be with us for a long time even if we had a perfect vaccine soon.
Whatever happened to the Defense Production Act, which was supposed to deploy factories to manufacture PPE? We should be knee-deep in masks and gowns and shields by now. Instead, medical personnel are still rationing these items. We're number one (in unnecessary deaths).
flowerseverywhere
7-11-20, 2:13pm
Sounds like those "death panels" people were talking about a few years ago. But single-payer health coverage for everyone doesn't exist so this must be happening with ... private insurance? How can that be???
https://www.delish.com/uk/cocktails-drinks/a33258696/friends-coffee-podsdeath /
my thoughts exactly. If you cannot afford to see a physician, high blood pressure and diabetes, for example, easily can be out of control. And getting covid along with these uncontrolled comorbidities would put you on the wrong side of The Who lives and who dies equation.
the poor health care workers who must make these heart wrenching decisions must be having nightmares. And I expect we will see lots of PTSD as well as soaring healthcare premiums when this is finally over. Someone has to pay for the insurance company workers, shiny fancy building, their computers, paperwork they must send out etc. and they will be bailed out of course. if anyone thinks this mess will be over a few months after a vaccine comes up, think again.
Why are we still hearing about shortages of PPE, testing, and equipment seven months in? Our government has failed us. No worries they can get tested every day and Jared will just run to “their” stockpile for whatever they need. He made it clear it’s not the states stockpile. So the hell with the taxpayers.
Sounds like those "death panels" people were talking about a few years ago. But single-payer health coverage for everyone doesn't exist so this must be happening with ... private insurance? How can that be???
https://www.delish.com/uk/cocktails-drinks/a33258696/friends-coffee-podsdeath /
Steve, did you post the friend coffee pods link? I am confused--why does it say "podsdeath"? When you click it, you get to a coffee pod thing.
flowerseverywhere
7-11-20, 2:21pm
Plus here is a good one
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/coronavirus-heroes-workers-comp
front line workers are fighting for covid workers comp. money over lives.
All the insurance systems, from health to ambulance chasers to workers comp are a disgrace. We should be ashamed.
Plus here is a good one
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/coronavirus-heroes-workers-comp
front line workers are fighting for covid workers comp. money over lives.
All the insurance systems, from health to ambulance chasers to workers comp are a disgrace. We should be ashamed.
Reason #4052 why we need a universal healthcare system like all the civilized countries of the world have.
Steve, did you post the friend coffee pods link? I am confused--why does it say "podsdeath"? When you click it, you get to a coffee pod thing.
Weird thing. I use a program on my Mac that simplifies keystrokes. So if I type teh and follow it with a space, it automatically corrects it to the . Quotation marks are part of the program, too. Cool stuff and it's probably saved me enough time over the years to knit a sweater. But at one point yesterday every time I hit the left quotation mark, it jumped to a new line and printed the quotation mark and the phrase okra cury, which was in my clipboard. I saw it when I posted and edited it out. I don't know how coffee pods ended up in there except that I was copying the URL for an article about Friends- (Central Perk-)themed coffee pods for our daughter (who is crazy about Friends ... but not about coffee >8)). Because of that and some other browser weirdnesses, I shut down the browser and started it up again and things seem to be behaving today.
So, with that mild comic relief, I return you to your regularly-scheduled forum. :) I'm going to edit out the URL.
ETA Tammy I'm sorry you are going through so much with this illness... It's hard enough to fight; people don't have to be stupid around it and make your job worse.
Weird thing. I use a program on my Mac that simplifies keystrokes. So if I type teh and follow it with a space, it automatically corrects it to the . Quotation marks are part of the program, too. Cool stuff and it's probably saved me enough time over the years to knit a sweater. But at one point yesterday every time I hit the left quotation mark, it jumped to a new line and printed the quotation mark and the phrase okra cury, which was in my clipboard. I saw it when I posted and edited it out. I don't know how coffee pods ended up in there except that I was copying the URL for an article about Friends- (Central Perk-)themed coffee pods for our daughter (who is crazy about Friends ... but not about coffee >8)). Because of that and some other browser weirdnesses, I shut down the browser and started it up again and things seem to be behaving today.
So, with that mild comic relief, I return you to your regularly-scheduled forum. :) I'm going to edit out the URL.
ETA Tammy I'm sorry you are going through so much with this illness... It's hard enough to fight; people don't have to be stupid around it and make your job worse.
Now THAT is funny. I was afraid you had been co-opted somehow.
Now THAT is funny. I was afraid you had been co-opted somehow.
Maybe he was. After all trump hasn’t seen Steve Jobs’ death certificate... 😃
I found this website listing mask requirements:
https://masks4all.co/what-countries-require-masks-in-public/
Sweden has been seen as an outlier, but Norway, Denmark and Finland also do not require masks. That is also the case in Australia and New Zealand.
I found it interesting that some countries in Asia do not force people to wear masks but people do anyways, maybe due to population density.
I found it interesting that some countries in Asia do not force people to wear masks but people do anyways, maybe due to population density.
When I went to Japan (Tokyo) pre-COVID I found that maybe 20% wear masks in public. I read that they do so in order to neither spread their germs nor get anyone else's. It's a social courtesy to them.
rosarugosa
7-12-20, 7:26am
When I went to Japan (Tokyo) pre-COVID I found that maybe 20% wear masks in public. I read that they do so in order to neither spread their germs nor get anyone else's. It's a social courtesy to them.
Social courtesy - what a delightful notion. I wish it could gain some traction in the US.
RR since germs are always with us, do you believe that like the 20% of Japanese everyone should wear masks in public even when there is not a pandemic?
I myself believe in the hygiene hypothesis, that exposure to germs helps build up the immune system.
I think that hypothesis works better in a fairly closed system, though. I remember going on a tour of a one room schoolhouse and the man saying that they drank out of a communal dipper, all of them, and they didn't get sick. But then it was a closed system, like a family.
RR since germs are always with us, do you believe that like the 20% of Japanese everyone should wear masks in public even when there is not a pandemic?
.
It’s not that 20% of the people randomly wear masks. It’s that people with symptoms of a cold or flu wear them. As a social courtesy to try and not infect other people. I realize that there is a not insignificant number of people in the US who can’t imagine doing anything to slightly inconvenience themselves for the benefit of others so we’re not likely to see similar behavior here. Hell, we often don’t even see it here in the middle of a deadly pandemic.
The right to infect others with a deadly pathogen is enshrined in the Constitution. Haven't you been following the news?
The right to infect others with a deadly pathogen is enshrined in the Constitution. Haven't you been following the news?
Not accurate. In the few places where antibody testing has been done, prevalence of the virus is often around 2%, meaning there is a 98% chance you are not infecting anyone. If you don't work in a nursing home or hot spot the chances are even less that you are contagious. If you're 2 years old there's basically a zero chance you can contract or transmit the virus, but everyone 2 or older is supposed to mask up. This is totally unrealistic for 8 hours a day in daycare or 6 hours a day in school. Some places say mask if you're 10 or older but not the big government blue states where daddy doesn't know best, the governor does.
happystuff
7-12-20, 10:15am
The right to infect others with a deadly pathogen is enshrined in the Constitution. Haven't you been following the news?
Yes, and for all these folks that say they are truly religious and follow their doctrines (i.e. "good christians"), it's okay to behave selfishly by thinking only of yourself and not your fellow man/woman by not doing something as simple as wearing a mask. After all... WWJD??
iris lilies
7-12-20, 10:35am
Weird thing. I use a program on my Mac that simplifies keystrokes. So if I type teh and follow it with a space, it automatically corrects it to the . Quotation marks are part of the program, too. Cool stuff and it's probably saved me enough time over the years to knit a sweater. But at one point yesterday every time I hit the left quotation mark, it jumped to a new line and printed the quotation mark and the phrase okra cury, which was in my clipboard. I saw it when I posted and edited it out. I don't know how coffee pods ended up in there except that I was copying the URL for an article about Friends- (Central Perk-)themed coffee pods for our daughter (who is crazy about Friends ... but not about coffee >8)). Because of that and some other browser weirdnesses, I shut down the browser and started it up again and things seem to be behaving today.
So, with that mild comic relief, I return you to your regularly-scheduled forum. :) I'm going to edit out the URL.
ETA Tammy I'm sorry you are going through so much with this illness... It's hard enough to fight; people don't have to be stupid around it and make your job worse.
That Mac on your program needs to get together with my computer translator girl who created “ fizzy attic” for me, the two of them could get together to create really weird baby phrases.
Not accurate. In the few places where antibody testing has been done, prevalence of the virus is often around 2%, meaning there is a 98% chance you are not infecting anyone. If you don't work in a nursing home or hot spot the chances are even less that you are contagious. If you're 2 years old there's basically a zero chance you can contract or transmit the virus, but everyone 2 or older is supposed to mask up. This is totally unrealistic for 8 hours a day in daycare or 6 hours a day in school. Some places say mask if you're 10 or older but not the big government blue states where daddy doesn't know best, the governor does.
So ‘only’ 1 in 50 people I come in contact with are likely to have it. (Assuming a 2% infection rate, which is probably off the charts low in a lot of places today). How many people go through a grocery cashier’s checkout line during a shift. I would bet well more than 50.
Stop your selfish whining and put on your god damn mask.
ApatheticNoMore
7-12-20, 11:09am
Even the statement that it's about blue states is wrong, yes somewhat more, but look at an actual map sometime.
https://www.axios.com/states-face-coverings-mandatory-a0e2fe35-5b7b-458e-9d28-3f6cdb1032fb.html
IMO, my west coast blue states were slow to issue blanket mask directives. When I was going out, I wore one long before they were mandated. IIRC, Washington is at about a 6% infection rate.
I'm a fan of natural immunity, but I'm not going to bet my life on it. I'd take my chances with colds and flu viruses, but not COVID. Even my blood type is supposedly out to get me with this one.
Jane in California, Washington and Massachusetts among other blue states 2 year olds must wear masks. In Texas a red state the mandate only applies to those age 10 or older.
Chicken lady
7-12-20, 12:26pm
WWJD? Matthew 4:7
Jane in California, Washington and Massachusetts among other blue states 2 year olds must wear masks. In Texas a red state the mandate only applies to those age 10 or older.
Texas is dealing with the results of doing everything wrong, IMO.
Went to Sunday church for the first time today since early March. 30 people total. Chairs well spaced apart. Everyone wearing masks. I’m told if someone showed up without one they would be told to leave.
So glad you were able to get back to church, Tradd. One of these Sundays I will have to brave it! Church of Zoom does not work for me very well, although I tried it.
happystuff
7-12-20, 1:36pm
WWJD? Matthew 4:7
Wow! A test?
Then how about Matthew 22:37-40 (esp. verse 39)
So glad you were able to get back to church, Tradd. One of these Sundays I will have to brave it! Church of Zoom does not work for me very well, although I tried it.
So was I! Communion is administered in the Orthodox Church with a spoon. The cut up pieces of the bread are in a chalice of wine that the priest spoons from. Everyone ordinarily is given Communion with the same spoon. Our priest bought a large number of stainless steel iced tea spoons (long handle). A different spoon is used for each communicant. After the service, they are rinsed in alcohol and then washed in very hot water and soap.
Added: We are allowed 30 people at a service. That includes priest, 2 altar servers, and 2 singers. The rest of us are asked NOT to sing due to possible enhanced spread of that plague that way. So, 25 people in the congregation.
My priest has instituted a Google signup document. Every two weeks its sent out for the Sunday Liturgy (Eucharist), Saturday evening Vespers (evening prayer), and any feast day services in those two weeks. Apparently, if there are no spaces available, you won't be able to sign up.
Chicken lady
7-12-20, 2:09pm
That also. And more importantly.
i was thinking of the ones who say “God will protect me.”
There was actually a woman on the news near me who said she wasn’t worried about the virus because she was washed in the blood of Christ. And my Dd asked “so, is she saying she doesn’t mind dying, or does she think that’s like a vaccine?”
Teacher Terry
7-12-20, 3:58pm
It’s ridiculous how some people think God will protect them and not others. I guess because they are special:))
What I want to know is why God would protect someone from coronavirus but wouldn't protect them from a bad guy with a gun.
What I want to know is why God would protect someone from coronavirus but wouldn't protect them from a bad guy with a gun.I doubt anyone thinks God will save them from anything, it's more likely they believe whatever happens is part of His plan for them with Heaven being their reward. At least that's how my Grandmother explained it to me.
happystuff
7-12-20, 5:33pm
I doubt anyone thinks God will save them from anything, it's more likely they believe whatever happens is part of His plan for them with Heaven being their reward. At least that's how my Grandmother explained it to me.
Whatever works for you... seriously.
I, personally, like this response when discussions regarding "religion" arise:
http://loveneverending.com/the-best-religion-a-dialog-between-dalai-lama-and-leonardo-boff/
Excerpt:
In a round table discussion about religion and freedom in which Dalai Lama and myself were participating at recess, I maliciously and also with interest, asked him: “Your holiness, what is the best religion?”
I thought he would say: “The Tibetan Buddhism” or “The oriental religions, much older than Christianity.” The Dalai Lama paused, smiled and looked me in the eyes…which surprised me because I knew of the malice contained in my question.
He answered: “The best religion is the one that gets you closest to God. It is the one that makes you a better person.”
To relieve my embarrassment with such a wise answer, I asked: “What is it that makes me better?”
He responded:
“Whatever makes you
more compassionate,
more sensible,
more detached,
more loving,
more humanitarian,
more responsible,
more ethical.
The religion that will do that for you is the best religion.”
dado potato
7-12-20, 5:48pm
In WI, the positivity rate on the tests reported on 7/12 was 10.1% I understand this to mean that for every 100 tests, about 10 Wisconsinites are positive for COVID-19.
So, it looks like Wisconsin is getting sicker.
The positivity rate used to be in the 2-4% range.
Then it was in the 4-10% range... and now we are again at the top of that range.
My 14-Day Moving Average of new cases in the state hit a low on 6/19 at 278.9 At that time I believed we could look forward to returning to normal, if the new cases kept on dropping.
Today the 14-DMA of new cases in WI is up to 600.
In addition to taking all reasonable precautions in my own family and home, I believe it is necessary to brace for bad news... people I know may be in quarantine in the near future. And bracing for the possibility of worse news that may follow.
SteveinMN
7-12-20, 10:12pm
I doubt anyone thinks God will save them from anything.
If that is what people believe, it certainly is not how many of them express it in everyday terms. And it puts a huge dent in intercessory prayer.
I’m positive.
If this were happening a year ago I would tell you that I have a cold and I feel tired. Because of our work regulations I was tested on Friday and just got the results this evening.
I’ll keep you all informed so we can learn about this together.
I’m positive.
If this were happening a year ago I would tell you that I have a cold and I feel tired. Because of our work regulations I was tested on Friday and just got the results this evening.
I’ll keep you all informed so we can learn about this together.
So sorry to hear this. Please keep us updated.
ApatheticNoMore
7-13-20, 12:06am
I’m positive.
If this were happening a year ago I would tell you that I have a cold and I feel tired. Because of our work regulations I was tested on Friday and just got the results this evening.
I’ll keep you all informed so we can learn about this together.
hope you get well soon, or as soon as is possible with this thing
Wishing you a speedy recovery and lifelong immunity Tammy.
rosarugosa
7-13-20, 6:17am
I'm sorry to hear that Tammy. I hope you feel better soon.
I am sorry this happened, and am praying for your speedy recovery.
I’m positive.
If this were happening a year ago I would tell you that I have a cold and I feel tired. Because of our work regulations I was tested on Friday and just got the results this evening.
I’ll keep you all informed so we can learn about this together.
I'm so sorry to hear. Please do keep us posted, Tammy...
We'll all be thinking about you.
happystuff
7-13-20, 8:44am
I’m positive.
If this were happening a year ago I would tell you that I have a cold and I feel tired. Because of our work regulations I was tested on Friday and just got the results this evening.
I’ll keep you all informed so we can learn about this together.
(((Tammy))) Wishing you a full and fast recovery!
So sorry, Tammy. I hope it passes quickly and without complications.
rosarugosa
7-13-20, 10:32am
It’s not that 20% of the people randomly wear masks. It’s that people with symptoms of a cold or flu wear them. As a social courtesy to try and not infect other people. I realize that there is a not insignificant number of people in the US who can’t imagine doing anything to slightly inconvenience themselves for the benefit of others so we’re not likely to see similar behavior here. Hell, we often don’t even see it here in the middle of a deadly pandemic.
My comment was not actually Covid or mask specific; I just wish we placed more value on social courtesy as a culture. However, I do like the idea of people wearing masks out in public if they have head colds.
dado potato
7-13-20, 10:59am
Tammy,
Let's hope for the best. Sending you a virtual bouquet.
3332
happystuff
7-13-20, 11:04am
My comment was not actually Covid or mask specific; I just wish we placed more value on social courtesy as a culture. However, I do like the idea of people wearing masks out in public if they have head colds.
I have the same wishes.
My comment was not actually Covid or mask specific; I just wish we placed more value on social courtesy as a culture. However, I do like the idea of people wearing masks out in public if they have head colds.
I agree. Masks aren't only effective against COVID transmission.
Tammy, I hope yours is one of the mild cases the media keep emphasizing, and that it resolves quickly and without lingering effects.
Teacher Terry
7-13-20, 12:28pm
Tammy, best wishes for a fast recovery.
Thanks all. My primary symptom is fatigue. The sore throat is gone. But wow I am tired. Sleeping all the time ...
All good thoughts toward you, Tammy. Hope you're feeling better and recuperating well.
frugal-one
7-13-20, 2:43pm
Hopefully the rest will make you feel better, Tammy!
iris lilies
7-13-20, 4:29pm
HermanN summer school is in full swing here. Students were lining up on the steps to get into the building. Later, I saw them playing on the playground. The school bus is running down our street.
There have been 15 cases of virus in Gasconade County. For the longest time, I would say about three months until mid June, they were around 4-6.
Our state is doing fine, but I don’t wanna rest on our laurels. We may get the scurge big-time, who knows.
IL still has about a 3% positivity rate.
My local grocery store (Jewel, major chain here) actually took the stickers off the floor indicating one way aisles. I was very happy with that.
ApatheticNoMore
7-13-20, 4:56pm
Positivity rate is about 6.5-16.5% about 9.5% 7 day average here, cases increasing, positivity rate is mostly used to indicate insufficient testing, so if it's over 4% or so it's insufficient says the WHO. Insufficient testing and this thing is not even kind of over here, it will probably gets worse before it gets better, if it ever gets better. I have yet to see any one way isle stickers, checkout distance stickers yes.
ApatheticNoMore
7-13-20, 5:11pm
And so Cali is in shutdown again for many counties, partial shut down for all, non-essential as well as essential retail may still be allowed and outdoor only dining, but not much else like gyms and hair salons. I literally never went out of shutdown for that stuff, ha simple living skills serving well. I socialized a bit sure, outdoors and with masks and distance etc. The fools spreading this aren't me, except that anyone might inadvertently, asymptomatically go to the grocery store with a mask and still do so or something since nothing's perfect and we have to do what we have to do.
IL had about 885 new cases the last 24 hours and only 6 deaths.
My state had 154 new cases and 5 new deaths today, and the big freedom that our governor is restoring to us since numbers have dropped precipitously? We can take reusable bags to the grocery store again.
ApatheticNoMore
7-13-20, 8:06pm
We're over 7000 cases a day in California (only maybe #12 per capita). I think they should give us all the freedom to get cases to at least 10k, 20k, more and overwhelm the hospitals, #1 per capita baby! Nah, not really.
iris lilies
7-13-20, 8:18pm
Today I did some things that were normal.
I went to the local pharmacy in Hermann and had my second shingles shot. By the way, what are you people paying for it? Each one is $170. There are two shots in the series.
My library cards have expired in both library systems, Herman and the city. Today went into the library here in Hermann and renewed my card.
Tomorrow I’m going to the Hermann Hospital to have a kidney scan. There’s nothing wrong but my doctor asked me to do this so yeah whatever OK.
Tomorrow on the way home from Hermann I plan to stop at the red cross blood donation center just off the highway we take. That’s going to be my new blood donation center and I want to check it out, see what they require for appointments and etc.
Iris, that sounds about right to me for the new two dose shingles shot.
Teacher Terry
7-13-20, 8:51pm
Some people won’t believe until it happens to someone that they know. Like the young man in his 30’s whose dying words to a nurse is I should have taken this seriously instead of thinking it was a hoax. He had went to a big event with no masks or social distancing a few weeks before.
Today I did some things that were normal.
I went to the local pharmacy in Hermann and had my second shingles shot. By the way, what are you people paying for it? Each one is $170. There are two shots in the series.
My library cards have expired in both library systems, Herman and the city. Today went into the library here in Hermann and renewed my card.
Tomorrow I’m going to the Hermann Hospital to have a kidney scan. There’s nothing wrong but my doctor asked me to do this so yeah whatever OK.
Tomorrow on the way home from Hermann I plan to stop at the red cross blood donation center just off the highway we take. That’s going to be my new blood donation center and I want to check it out, see what they require for appointments and etc.
I think my shingles shots were $160 apiece, so that sounds about right. If I recall correctly insurance was able to knock $20 or $30 off the price they paid. I only paid a copayment.
I'm jealous that you can go to the library. In SF the libraries are still closed and will be until at least the end of august. Many of the staff have been put in service dealing with covid as contact tracers and other jobs dealing with the pandemic. The last email update from the library was that they hope to reopen for curbside reserve pickup starting after Labor Day. In the meantime they have extended the due dates of all books that were checked out when they closed in mid-March until September 30th.
I didn't even pay a copay for my shingles shots (both doses).
Our library is now open for limited hours and services. Curbside pickup is now by appt only. They're asking people to keep their visits short. Computer use is only for 30 minutes.
iris lilies
7-13-20, 11:47pm
I’m pretty sure the pharmacy checked last time and Medicare doesn’t cover shingles shots. If it does cover them then I guess I’m out the money. Whatever. To me this is just stuff you pay for.
I was surprised that our insurance paid 100% of the cost of the shingles vaccine for both of us. I think it was about $200 per injection at Costco.
Now my husband has COVID symptoms. He doesn’t want to get a test because the Q-tip goes into your nose and all the way back into your sinuses beneath your eyeball. He can’t imagine going through that. My description probably didn't help. Ha!
I’m not gonna push it because it doesn’t really matter anyway. As long as he is stable at home while recovering it’ll be the same plan either way. He is isolating with me anyway because we’re in the same household.
My cold symptoms are almost gone now. But the tiredness and hot flashes continue. No fever though. Husband has more GI upset with fatigue. So far we’re both breathing fine.
Our insurance paid for the shot. But we pay a huge amount in addition to Medicare for our "super" supplemental policy. We are going to evaluate changing it during open season since we are no longer traveling overseas.
I am jealous as my library is closed. They are doing curbside pickup but limit you to 5 books at a time vs the usual 50 and I am a super-reader. My shingles shot was covered in full since I got it during my annual physical so it was coded preventive.
Medicare doesn’t cover shingles shots. If it does cover them then I guess I’m out the money. Whatever. To me this is just stuff you pay for.
Ours were covered by DW's insurance (pre-retirement).
We did get the earlier vaccine several years ago; that was out of our own pocket because we weren't old enough to get the shot for free (though we were old enough to get shingles, which, based on what I read and see, is not something anyone should want). As you said, stuff you pay for. If either one of us got shingles it would have been well worth what we paid for the vaccine to be cured of it.
DW and i are almost exclusively e-library users, so curbside/inside made no difference to us. I believe they're still curbside-only here, but I'm not aware of restrictions on the number of books, etc.
iris lilies
7-14-20, 10:40am
Ours were covered by DW's insurance (pre-retirement).
We did get the earlier vaccine several years ago; that was out of our own pocket because we weren't old enough to get the shot for free (though we were old enough to get shingles, which, based on what I read and see, is not something anyone should want). As you said, stuff you pay for. If either one of us got shingles it would have been well worth what we paid for the vaccine to be cured of it.
DW and i are almost exclusively e-library users, so curbside/inside made no difference to us. I believe they're still curbside-only here, but I'm not aware of restrictions on the number of books, etc.
It’s pretty standard in libraries to require a valid library card to use digital resources. During COVID-19 lock down when the library close my card expired card. But being the good doobies that they were, the library automatically made an extension until two days after they re-opened.
It’s pretty standard in libraries to require a valid library card to use digital resources. During COVID-19 lock down when the library close my card expired card. But being the good TV that they were, the library automatically extended extensions until two days after they re-opened.
My library was issuing digital library cards for those who didn't already have them when everything was closed.
My Seattle Library card expired because I didn't use it, but my King County card hasn't expired since I first got it over 30 years ago.
Teacher Terry
7-14-20, 12:46pm
Unfortunately I am allergic to one of the ingredients in the shingles shot. I just read that 5 states including Nevada have 20% more people without HI because they lost their jobs.
ApatheticNoMore
7-14-20, 2:27pm
It would be the wrong shot anyway, I've been confirmed via antibody tests to have never had chicken pox (which is what I told the doc anyway, but they wanted to prove it - yes, yes, doc I had asymptomatic chicken pox … >8))
It would be the wrong shot anyway, I've been confirmed via antibody tests to have never had chicken pox (which is what I told the doc anyway, but they wanted to prove it - yes, yes, doc I had asymptomatic chicken pox … >8))
Did the doc then recommend chicken pox vaccination? I got chicken pox as an adult, a couple of years after the vaccine came out. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
ApatheticNoMore
7-14-20, 3:12pm
Did the doc then recommend chicken pox vaccination? I got chicken pox as an adult, a couple of years after the vaccine came out. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
yes but as a gyno they couldn't give me one, nor a prescription for one, and so I procrastinate in a pandemic now :~)
yes but as a gyno they couldn't give me one, nor a prescription for one, and so I procrastinate in a pandemic now :~)
Well, on the plus side in the middle of a pandemic you're not likely to be exposed to chicken pox!
frugal-one
7-14-20, 4:52pm
Some people won’t believe until it happens to someone that they know. Like the young man in his 30’s whose dying words to a nurse is I should have taken this seriously instead of thinking it was a hoax. He had went to a big event with no masks or social distancing a few weeks before.
The news here said the people who attended called it a "COVID party."
flowerseverywhere
7-14-20, 7:16pm
Florida had to give the torch of being #1 in new cases for two days in a row to Texas. We are neck in neck for the trophy. My town looks like a ghost town. Barely a soul out and my county only had two new cases today. I went to the library last evening a half hour before they closed, and they told me no one but the workers had been there after 5pm. I was able to luxuriously stroll around and do a self serve checkout. I throw the books in the car and hand sanitized. When I take them out a few days later, they have been cooked in a hot garage. In the very remote chance a book was carrying the virus the garage treatment should do it. Big excitement tonight. DH has to do an errand to Lowe’s and I’m going to go and walk around the garden center, one of my favorite activities. We will go about fourty five minutes before closing, and like the grocery stores there will hardly be a person there.
on the other hand, Miami and area has a huge case and death count daily. And the Republican convention scheduled to be here next month May be held outside. However they will still have to travel, stay in hotels, eat in restaurants etc. then bring any virus back to their family, coworkers and friends. Recipe for disaster unless through some miracle the virus just disappears like we were promised. The last place I would go in Florida is any city, Disney (which is open) or the crowded beaches. In the rural areas it is fairly easy to social distance. But we have our masks on if there is any chance we will run into people.
I now know several people who are covid positive. One is quite ill but is still at home.
In the meantime i’m getting better and better at backgammon and several other games, as we play something every day.
Teacher Terry
7-14-20, 7:18pm
Vegas is not doing well with the virus so glad we don’t live there. They opened the casinos too soon. Locally our positivity rate is 8%.
I heard an interview with a school official from Orange County, CA. I was glad to hear her acknowledge that masks and social distancing harm children and neither are part of the back to school plan for this extremely low risk group.
Teacher Terry
7-14-20, 8:10pm
Parents won’t be sending their kids to school if that’s the case.
We have a number of school districts that make up Indianapolis and surrounding areas. At least two, one of which is large, are not reopening to classroom students. They will be totally virtual. Our city shcool district is confusing. Parents must apply and tell the school whether they will be in a classroom or stay home. They cannot switch back and forth. Way too complex with bus issues, space issues, mask issues, etc.
Several have not announced. Each one will be different. Woe to those parents who move during the school year.
mschrisgo2
7-14-20, 8:36pm
I heard an interview with a school official from Orange County, CA. I was glad to hear her acknowledge that masks and social distancing harm children and neither are part of the back to school plan for this extremely low risk group.
They may not be allowed to open. The governor and the teachers’ union and parents are not agreeing that this is feasible. Any one of those groups can block it, i.e. no teachers, no school; no students, no school. The governor said yesterday that he was giving them 2 days to “make the right decision for the safety of the entire community.” We shall see what he says tomorrow.
The nearby large districts, Los Angeles Unified, largest in the state, and San Diego Unified, are opening with digital programs only.
Mschrigo many parents are lobbying for a return to the classroom. I agree with those districts that offer both options.
Teacher Terry
7-14-20, 9:33pm
I really feel sorry for parents that can’t work from home and don’t have daycare for their kids. Even the ones WFH are struggling. It’s such a mess. Plus I know it’s hard on the kids.
I heard on the radio over the weekend that one woman had been fired because her boss considered the woman’s kids to be too noisy during Zoom calls.
There don't seem to be any easy answers about the schools. If states had taken this seriously during the spring we'd be like other countries who are getting back to normal including schools, but instead we're looking at the biggest still ongoing first wave of any developed country, with no sign of it abating.
I just heard a horrifying statistic on Pod Save America. 40% of the LA Unified School District kids never logged on to the remote learning even once. That does not bode well for the future of kids who either don't have the equipment and internet access at home, and/or don't have parents that can keep them focused and make sure they are doing it. When this if finally all over they will be left further behind than they likely already were. On the other hand having schools open seems likely to have a high likelihood of turning many of them into super-spreader locations that will make where we are now with covid seem completely in control by comparison.
My "friend" is an elementary school teacher, and reported that once they went to "remote learning" they immediately lost 25% or so of the class, never even logged in, even though they had been provided with Internet hotspots and laptops.
Teacher Terry
7-14-20, 10:58pm
That’s horrible Tradd. Bae, I wonder if the kids and parents knew how to use the laptops.
That’s horrible Tradd. Bae, I wonder if the kids and parents knew how to use the laptops.
As was conveyed to me, yes, they had familiarity.
The issues with the kids who didn't show up had more to do with living circumstances, as was explained to me. Small apartments with multiple children and parents either stuck at home, or recruiting the older children to babysit. That is, there was some significant correlation between home environment and showing up.
iris lilies
7-15-20, 12:21am
If Anyone thanks kids around here in the ‘ hood will bother to login to digital instruction, well, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. That was a foregone conclusion since many do not bother to come to physical school anyway much of the time.
We have a renewal of a school bond up in this next election.
Normally people pass these here with 65%+ support, unless it is a foolish one (we had one rejected a few years back by 65%).
This time, folks are asking "so, what's the actual plan for educating the kids? Do we need to renew this supplemental bond, which was specifically targeted at some in-person teaching programs?".
"Bother", said the School District.
mschrisgo2
7-15-20, 2:03am
As was conveyed to me, yes, they had familiarity.
The issues with the kids who didn't show up had more to do with living circumstances, as was explained to me. Small apartments with multiple children and parents either stuck at home, or recruiting the older children to babysit. That is, there was some significant correlation between home environment and showing up.
It doesn’t surprise me a bit that they never logged in. Schools have the same issues with actually getting those kids to school. Education is available, but many don’t participate.
I chose to teach kindergarten one year, in the lowest performing school in the district. I had 20 students. Never once in the entire year did I have all 20 of them at the same time. And the ones who did come, came late and left early. Kinder is only 2 hours And 50 minutes, but it seemed to interfere with their home lives.
I almost walked off the job the day the principal came and yelled at me because I didn’t turn in test scores for all of the kids. I told her, “you get them to school and I’ll test them. ( at that point there were 7 children I hadn’t seen at all in over 3 weeks) Hell, I’ll even teach them to read. But I can’t do it if they’re not here.” She told me I was being insubordinate.
I found out later that other teachers were turning in bogus scores for no-show students, and the attendance secretary was falsifying the records. I put in for a transfer.
flowerseverywhere
7-15-20, 11:29am
Just an example with one family I know.
three kids 6,8 and 10 with both parents at home working.
they had to buy two separate computers for them and one used the home computer.
Then they had to all use the Internet at once as school took place during the day when both parents had to work. The parents were able to work with their companies, one was allowed to start at 5am and the other at 1 pm so that eased the Internet demand. They both helped the kids when they were available. The littlest one needed More help, so the two older helped him as well.
These extreme measures are not possible for some families. No money. No flexibility. No connectivity to handle the demand. No skills to be able to help them. Life circumstances get in the way of the most well intentioned.
Chicken lady
7-15-20, 11:30am
Mschrisgo2, that situation is abhorant! And far beyond a teacher to fix.
i must have a lot of jeppy’s people enrolling their kids at our program. I have been told that I am allowed to set mask requirements for my classroom. So I told the administration they will be required. I was told “we have a lot of parents who won’t send their kids if masks are required. Will you be wearing a mask?
yes, I will be wearing a mask. I will also be wearing a shirt, which is hot and uncomfortable and I have been really happy quarantined at home gardening in my bra. The shirt is polite. The mask is a health issue. I will also be refusing to go into classrooms and offices in the building where masks are not worn. And avoiding children and coworkers who are not wearing them. My students will be set up at work stations 6 feet apart (well, some may have to be 5 facing away from each other, and if my full class stays full I’m going to make the brother and sister share a table to give everyone else more space.) and my windows will be open. Even if it rains. There is nothing on my window ledge that can’t be rained on.
I wanted to ask if we had heard from parents who won’t be sending their kids if masks are not required. Because I can list at least one. And he’s in my class. And I like him. Seriously, if you don’t want to take a basic step to keep the people around your child safe, keep them home!
they can totally fire me. I’ll get a job tutoring mask kid.
At least in Chicago, Comcast was donating internet access for low income families. The school district was handing out internet hotspots and laptops/iPads so students could get online. There are still problems with the family situation in many cases. They don’t make sure the kids logon. They can’t help with school work if needed. Or maybe the home situation is abusive or otherwise a bad place.
My wife, who works with autistic kids, had an approximately 50% participation rate in online classes among her kids at the end of the last school year and there were significant problems trying to keeping them focused. There were no known issues involving lack of hardware or broadband since the school provided each student a chromebook and our local cable provider donated free broadband access to every student household. We spent a day as volunteers delivering chromebooks to households and I was actually surprised to see how few required them since her school services a very low income base.
Latest word as of this morning is that our district will open the new school year as normal with parents given the option of keeping kids at home for online instruction, then if the need arises, adjusting to a part-time school schedule involving 2 days per week in the classroom and 3 days online. I think it's too fluid at the moment though to take that as gospel.
Your situation there, Alan, sounds pretty much the same as my grandson's school district in Indiana and my granddaughter's in Maine. In New Mexico, where my sil teaches, they have to come up with three different curricula to meet these three possible paths.
They are talking about masks for all the children in Maine in schools but not in Indiana, that I have heard. In NM, they are planning to keep all the children in one class together with no recess, eat lunch in the classroom, be socially isolated all day.
I guess if I were a parent I would homeschool but it is a terrible loss for all the children.
Teacher Terry
7-15-20, 12:33pm
CL, I totally agree with you!
The local school district has been discussing three options: school year starts "as normal"; school year starts on-line; school year starts in the building but is interrupted by the pandemic. They have to work on all three options because the decision on which of the first two are chosen likely will wait until the last minute, of necessity.
I think I relayed the situation our kids were in during stay-at-home. It just was not very sustainable for them and the kids were not doing well with the disruption to their routine, and this in a family which has the money and the room and the relative flexibility of schedules to at least try to pull it off. When the kids could go back to day care, they did, and everyone is happier for it at the moment. As pregnancy #3 gets closer and we learn more about C19, however, they may opt to pull the kids out of day care and have us provide some day care through the week. Negotiations, as they say, continue.
Its going to be a very rough, stressful, and underpaid school year for the teachers, that's for sure.
I think if one doesn't want to put up with it, then staying out of the classroom is probably a wise idea. My sil just retired and is so happy she did so.
I can't help but think this pandemic is going to represent the launch of a boatload of retirements in education and healthcare.
frugal-one
7-15-20, 5:25pm
A family here where both parents are teachers. One of their children has diabetes. They don't want to sent their child or themselves to school. Another family ... mother is a teacher and said it was horrible trying to homeschool her children, as well as, teach her students. It really is a horrible situation any way.
Sadly I imagine most high schools' yearbooks this year will likely have an "In Memoriam" page with pictures of all the students and faculty that passed away from covid during the year.
It's almost a month now since California's mask mandate and cases continue to surge there. When will people realize if it's not an N95 mask specially fitted to your face then a face covering is useless? Placebo effects can't stop this virus.
Of course blaming people for not wearing masks deflects attention from the failures in testing by the powers that be.
It's almost a month now since California's mask mandate and cases continue to surge there. When will people realize if it's not an N95 mask specially fitted to your face then a face covering is useless? Placebo effects can't stop this virus.
Of course blaming people for not wearing masks deflects attention from the failures in testing by the powers that be.
It's not an either/or proposition. You need both. Kind of like how cars don't have seat belts or airbags. Neither, or even both, will protect you perfectly in all crashes. You're safer with both.
ApatheticNoMore
7-16-20, 7:55pm
Oh I blame the powers that be for opening the economy up too soon. SHUT IT DOWN AND KEEP IT SHUT until you are actually able to open safely. I don't forgive them for placing short term economic gain over human life and opening up way too soon with no plan for containment.
But there is ever mounting evidence that masks are effective including for the wearer (not 100% effective, they don't need to be for public health). A substitute for shutting it down, that's increasingly a Trump administration propaganda line, that untested, it's purely modeling based on a very optimistic projection of human behavior at that (near 90% mask use - crazy optimistic if you ask me). We have actual tested interventions but are simply frankly utterly unable to do them, so we rely on seriously optimistic modeling of human behavior and hope, that and hoping for a vaccine.
Failures of testing is of course a misdirection at this point (it was true early on of course). But at this point we would have ENOUGH testing if we didn't have an exploding number cases. This level of explosion of cases was never planned. The failure was reopening too soon.
Arizona just announced that renters can’t be evicted this month - extended to oct 31.
frugal-one
7-16-20, 8:47pm
It's almost a month now since California's mask mandate and cases continue to surge there. When will people realize if it's not an N95 mask specially fitted to your face then a face covering is useless? Placebo effects can't stop this virus.
Of course blaming people for not wearing masks deflects attention from the failures in testing by the powers that be.
Err on the side of caution... wear a mask. If it helps great. If not, you did your best. trump now is having CDC report COVID numbers to the white house only. Nazi dictator wanna be is worried he is going to lose the election if the numbers continue to rise.
ApatheticNoMore
7-16-20, 9:05pm
Err on the side of caution... wear a mask. If it helps great. If not, you did your best.
Yea we did our best considering none of these decisions were democratic, early on I was writing state reps to expand sick time (still would be nice since most spread may be symptomatic even if asymptomatic spread seems to exist as well). I wrote the governor to listen to science not politics on opening up. I know futile but. I think I even wrote my awful county rep and I hate them, not to open up. I write Fed reps but the Fed gov is largely hopeless, so that's mostly just attempts to stop things from getting even worse generally, I don't have hope for covid response there. I fight for myself, I nag my family. I wear masks, I've worn googles at times, I may add a face shield to my mask. We will have done what we can do. We are ruled by the worst, just the worst (there are degrees Newsom is not de Santis - still there is an across the board failure here).
And now I just found out that a good friend of mine from high school (hospice nurse who has had a bunch of covid patients) is positive and fairly sick. In addition to feeling like crap physically she's beating herself up over every possible person she might have infected over the last two weeks, despite wearing a mask ALL THE TIME.
She did things right and shouldn't feel guilty. Hopefully, like the hair stylists in Missouri she didn't infect anyone. WEAR A G.D. EFFING MASK.
ApatheticNoMore
7-17-20, 1:35am
If we are running out of tests, and they are likely to ration them in CA, so yes testing is strained, why haven't we moved to pool testing? Fuaci argued for it, it seemed like it could work. And yes the main fault lies in opening too soon without a plan, testing can't cure that, but still we are running out of testing supplies. Of course maybe too much of the population here has it at this point for that to work.
I just mailed off the cancellation form for my gym membership. There was a senior citizen in the back yesterday (nowhere near me at the time) who had one heck of a dry cough that wouldn’t stop. He had to have passed the temp check. He was coughing while I was leaving so I said something to the girl at the desk.
I’ve got my bike for outside and YouTube videos for cardio, as well as weights for at home.
Teacher Terry
7-17-20, 12:03pm
Medical experts are saying if everyone would wear a mask for the next 4-6 weeks this would all be behind us.
I’ve got my bike for outside and YouTube videos for cardio, as well as weights for at home.
I've given up on the Big Gym entirely. I use my indoor and outdoor bikes, my weights, hikes in the forest, and the very small gym in my outlying fire station that only 6 of us are stationed at, and where I think I'm the only one using the equipment ever.
I've given up on the Big Gym entirely. I use my indoor and outdoor bikes, my weights, hikes in the forest, and the very small gym in my outlying fire station that only 6 of us are stationed at, and where I think I'm the only one using the equipment ever.
I wish I had room for an indoor bike. I don't. And with my knees, walking for any distance hurts. Forget about running or hiking.
Chicken lady
7-17-20, 12:58pm
Traded, my mom got a bike trainer thing that attaches to her outside bike. She pushed the couch against the wall, removed the coffee table, and set the bike up in front of the tv. You can only see the tv unobstructed while riding the bike.
not like anyone is coming over to sit in the living room....
ApatheticNoMore
7-17-20, 1:22pm
I gave up my gym membership before gyms even reopened, not safe. And they reopened for all of maybe 2-3 weeks, closed again now anyway.
Co worker was showing symptoms today so she got tested. She and I took a walk (outside) the day before she became symptomatic. My workplace requires masks unless you are at your desk.
This will be an interesting weekend.
Finally know someone personally who had the virus. Back in March, 30 yo nephew had weird symptoms - like the flu but without mucus. Painful lungs. Fever. Complete loss of taste and smell. Had the antibody test done yesterday and shows he has them. Still dealing with excess tiredness and smell/taste issues three months later. Says to take it seriously...
Lack of ability to taste is a known symptom of zinc deficiency. Also, zinc is known to support immune function.
A Google search indicates tests on zinc and COVID19 are ongoing.
I looked today for zinc and could not find any in the vitamin aisle and there was only one multivitamin, an expensive one with sugar as the leading ingredient. Maybe Trump's taking zinc has inspired his followers to buy it all up.
happystuff
7-18-20, 1:52pm
I never bothered with a gym membership. I get out and walk everyday and do whatever other exercises in front of the tv or just do them. Too big of an expense for me.
dado potato
7-18-20, 8:01pm
Bravo, Vermont!
Vermonters have gone a month without a single COVID-19 fatality.
The VT population is smaller than adjoining states. Vermonters reportedly have cut down on travel and embraced the "stay-at-home" lifestyle. Long Term Care Facilities adopted strict protocols. No visitation. Prospective new residents are tested for COVID-19 before they are admitted to LTC facilities.
Green Mountains and Burlington, known and loved. Be well!
31% percent of children in Florida tested for covid had positive results. Herd immunity is reached at 70%. So the state is almost halfway there among the younger population, probably because kids aren't as good at hygiene as adults.
Washington State "as a whole is in an explosive situation. Transmission
continues to increase or accelerate across most of Washington state and will continue to do so unless concrete steps are taken to stop the spread."
https://covid.idmod.org/data/WA_Situation_Report_9_COVID-19_transmission_across_Washington_State.pdf
Chicken lady
7-18-20, 9:09pm
Yppej, math - 31% of children TESTED. They did not test 100% of children in Florida. So the known positive percentage is 31% multiplied by the percentage of children in Florida tested (which is number tested divided by total number of children times 100.)
I’m going to guess that given the unpleasantness of the test and the uncooperative nature of children, most people don’t get their kids tested unless they are pretty sure they are sick.
Teacher Terry
7-18-20, 9:12pm
We don’t know if herd immunity exists with this virus. People may have gotten it twice. The antibodies go away quickly.
flowerseverywhere
7-19-20, 3:19am
A
31% percent of children in Florida tested for covid had positive results. Herd immunity is reached at 70%. So the state is almost halfway there among the younger population, probably because kids aren't as good at hygiene as adults.
actually there are about four million kids 18 and under in Florida
about 55,000 have been tested
I would not assume such a small sample to be indicative anything close to herd immunity as well children are unlikely to be tested in Florida. It is not easy to get a “beautiful” test here, despite claims anyone can get one. I am in a covid study as well as Continuing with my routine blood donation. They are looking for antibodies which might be helpful to treat very ill people. But they are finding antibodies rapidly decrease and other countries have reported reinfections.
Also, 70-90% of the population being immune is needed for herd immunity depending on how infectious the disease is. Since this is very contagious we need a much higher rate of community immunity if it even would exist, another unknown.
Fair points flowerseverywhere. I looked at articles by Johns Hopkins and the Mayo Clinic. One said 70% and one said 70 to 90%. I do think if no actions were taken at all to try to stop it the disease would burn itself out more quickly than it currently is, with us many months into the pandemic now.
The apparently quick decline of anti bodies in people who have been infected does not bode well for an effective vaccine either.
Rogar I saw on the news that what we need is a T-cell or cell-mediated immune vaccine which lasts longer.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-cell_vaccine
A friend occasionally recommends the "This Week in Virology" podcast. One of the most recent featured an interview with Fauci. Often the podcast is over my head, but this one is very understandable. He discusses things like herd immunity, vaccine progress, what we know about modes of transmission, etc. Highly recommended. https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-641/
Tammy, I hope you're feeling a little better!
I am going to declare a separate peace, a la John Knowles, and stop talking about Covid or going on threads that deal with Covid.
Just last post to wish Tammy a good recovery.
happystuff
7-19-20, 10:47am
Tammy, I hope you're feeling a little better!
I am going to declare a separate peace, a la John Knowles, and stop talking about Covid or going on threads that deal with Covid.
Just last post to wish Tammy a good recovery.
Have been attempting to do the same around here. Getting tire of saying "Wear a mask for yourself and others!". Those who are doing it, don't need to hear it from me any more, and those who won't... oh, well.
Tammy, again, I hope you are having a quick and easy recovery!!
Washington State "as a whole is in an explosive situation. Transmission
continues to increase or accelerate across most of Washington state and will continue to do so unless concrete steps are taken to stop the spread."
https://covid.idmod.org/data/WA_Situation_Report_9_COVID-19_transmission_across_Washington_State.pdf
I would have expected better from Washington, though I know the state has struggled to get the necessary test equipment.
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