View Full Version : Conavirus......
The Chinese restaurants as well as the Asian markets are struggling.
I have heard that this is the case even here. I did go to my favorite Asian supermarket today to stock up on some things I'd want in the house if we're there for a while and it was as full as I expected it to be. In fact, I was surprised at how many customers there today were not of Asian descent.
HIV - Africa - eating monkey
Ebola - Africa - eating bush meat
1918 flu - pig farms brought this to the US
Swine flu - from Mexico
SARS, Hong Kong flu, Coronavirus - Chinese meat markets
Frugal-one, what are comparable viral pandemics that originated in India?
The way I took your previous post was every illness (or most) could be contained by eating vegetarian.
ApatheticNoMore
3-2-20, 9:03am
I took it as a moral case for vegetarianism. I'm often persuaded by the case .... up to a point. But I have reactions to eggs and can't seem to take them in more than extremely moderate amounts. And though it's not as bad as eggs, I don't do well with dairy beyond a certain point either. And pretty soon I'm forced closer to veganism if I went that route. And I like legumes just fine and they are a regular part of my diet and not something I have any issue with unless my digestive system is very weak (after antibiotics), however I don't actually want to be a vegan. And that's kind of as far as that ever really goes.
I see, especially in China, massive amounts of chemicals being sprayed especially on the roadways. I'm wondering what they use and what effects that will have on one's health? Even if it's "just" 'Clorox', that could be a problem. When clorox breaks down, it becomes more toxic than when it started out (at least according to our local board of health). When the well guys chlorinated our well, and they tell me how much to use the next time, they say plus or minus 8 gallons. The health department says something like a pint, and that when it breaks down in our finger system, it's even more toxic. :(
Anyhow........it must be a real dilemma for these places.....risk from corona virus, versus risk from the chemicals being sprayed.
"The United States has reported a second death from the Coronavirus amid fears the virus has spread undetected in the Seattle suburbs for weeks."--New York Times
This is strangely comforting--that it's been lurking nearby all this time. I wonder how many people just thought they had the usual winter infections.
OK, I'll bite. At this point, what part of the US response to the coronavirus is inadequate?
https://www.abc10.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/feds-helping-evacuees-lacked-coronavirus-protection/103-8b940d3d-6773-414c-b4ec-9a0cbb9be372
ApatheticNoMore
3-2-20, 1:18pm
At this point it's just gaslighting, saying everything is going wonderful with corona virus response, making people doubt their sanity in perfectly credible news reports from credible sources. Look in this age there is a lot of misinformation floating around about everything under the sun, so one's hold on reality is easy to doubt (am i really sure? it's this just some lie someone passed on from a twitter thread or something? where did I learn this?). But come on.
Test kit folly:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/united-states-badly-bungled-coronavirus-testing-things-may-soon-improve
"But there’s widespread discontent with the way the system has worked. “The U.S. government has not appropriately prioritized diagnostic tests and supported the laboratory response network to the degree they should have been supported over the years,” says Luciana Borio, who in previous jobs had lead roles in responding to emerging threats at the National Security Council and FDA.
If a new disease emerges, CDC normally “gets the ball rolling” with diagnostics because it has the expertise and the biosafety laboratories to handle dangerous novel pathogens, says Borio, who now works for In-Q-Tel, a not-for-profit venture capital firm. Typically, there are few confirmed viral samples from patients at the outset, which researchers need to validate their tests, and CDC has the capability to grow the virus for this critical quality assurance step. Once the agency has a working test, that goes out to state labs. Then, in a third phase, commercial labs take over and either produce their own tests or scale-up the CDC one. “I would have hoped to see that third phase by now,” Borio says."
Test kit folly:
Infuriating.
At this point it's just gaslighting, saying everything is going wonderful with corona virus response
The only people I hear saying "Never mind the man behind the curtain" are the liar in the White House and his hired toadies. The career folks in government and public-health folks whose job it is to use science and evidence to understand our world are saying this already is far worse than "very very minor" and likely will get more widespread before it somehow is kept under control.
I'm one for considering the source. Some appointed suit who does not believe in science telling me "things are o-tay" is not getting a pass from me.
With the exception of a few items, we are ready for whatever we can do to flatten the curve of the spread of COVID-19. A visit to a few stores here showed pretty normal stock levels of everything, though one friend of ours posted that Costco was a madhouse on Sunday and someone posted pictures of bare shelves at a local Target that was featuring a very good sale on paper products.
The only thing I'd like to do now is maybe to buy some stock in Amazon and services like Shipt. I suspect delivery services like those going to get really busy if/when this illness breaks out big(ly).
flowerseverywhere
3-3-20, 5:52am
OK, I'll bite. At this point, what part of the US response to the coronavirus is inadequate?
from Fox News a quote from a Republican Governor in a red state
as of this weekend we had no testing kits.
https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/state-officials-florida-has-no-testing-kits-for-coronavirus
Trump declares rallies are safe. Since we have no idea what our outbreak status is large gatherings may or may not be.
https://www.localsyr.com/news/politics/trump-says-rallies-very-safe-despite-virus-anxiety/
in the real world, the Louvre has shut down. Italian soccer team played in an empty stadium to avoid crowds
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/28/football/inter-milan-coronavirus-ludogorets-football-spt-intl/index.html
we have no idea how many cases we have due to lack of test kits. Physicians had to call the CDC to obtain one and justify why they wanted to test.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/02/coronavirus-new-york-city-doctor-has-to-plead-to-test-people.html
Mike Pence, the head of the outbreak team is a lawyer, not a physician or infectious disease specialist.
We have asomething like 30 million people uninsured in the US despite ten years of republicans saying they would repeal and replace the ACA. Trump said he had a plan that would cover more people, be better and cheaper. Uninsured people are less likely to visit a physician which could lead to more spread.
Our response has been inadequate and poorly run. Trump says a vaccine is around the corner, experts Say it could be a year away.
Our number one one priority should be to determining be where we stand with number of cases. Protect our health care professionals or we are really going to be in trouble. Have daily unedited honest updates by the CDC.
Flowerseverywhere, I feel the same way. Here is another article with some info on the CDC issues: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/united-states-badly-bungled-coronavirus-testing-things-may-soon-improve?fbclid=IwAR0JUT3oRsEyti2fjm1MN379mdy49kNj4 nJqJClAWaCybzcvOF82x67ykzw
gimmethesimplelife
3-3-20, 7:40am
Supplies of astragulus tincture (an herbal immune booster) seem to be already running low though I did manage to find a 2 ounce bottle. To date, oil of oregano and echinacea with goldenseal is not hard to find. I have seen prepper buying here in Phoenix but shelves are mostly all stocked to date and I have yet to see panic buying.
I'm not sure how US border communities are faring. Rob
Flowerseverywhere may have some points, but I suspect some of the problems maybe at the CDC administrative level and would have persisted with any president. I think the basic problem is that we can expect the president to deceive the people to protect the economy, he lacks good communication skills, and he's appointed a scientific moron who has hinted at not believing in evolution to be in charge. Everything else follows.
Competent leadership could go further than deception when it comes to reducing over reactions and offering realistic expectations.
We now think there have been many cases for several weeks throughout the USA and we are only recognizing it now because most cases are not serious enough to be diagnosed. This would happen under any administration. It’s just frustrating to watch our president make up his own facts about this, but that is not a new behavior for him.
We now think there have been many cases for several weeks throughout the USA and we are only recognizing it now because most cases are not serious enough to be diagnosed. This would happen under any administration. It’s just frustrating to watch our president make up his own facts about this, but that is not a new behavior for him.
Right, it's apparent the cases have been out there. So closing schools etc. feels a lot like closing the barn door after the horse is out. But Tammy, I guess that is what my earlier question was about--how does it help to close schools etc and limit travel etc.--how does that affect the spread of disease once it's out there, and is it effective, and do you think that is what is coming--people being forced to stay at home, the way they are in China?
Supplies of astragulus tincture (an herbal immune booster) seem to be already running low though I did manage to find a 2 ounce bottle. To date, oil of oregano and echinacea with goldenseal is not hard to find. I have seen prepper buying here in Phoenix but shelves are mostly all stocked to date and I have yet to see panic buying.
I'm not sure how US border communities are faring. Rob
My remedies of choice (for any respiratory concern) are saline lavages, zinc, and vitamin C. I've added elderberry syrup. Amazon still has zinc (pills and lozenges),and nasal spray (which I've bought gallons of), and elderberry syrup--which I'm too lazy to make at this point. One of the doctors giving advice yesterday mentioned using zinc lozenges and lying down, if necessary, to let them dissolve slowly near the back of your throat. You can make your own nasal solution:
https://blogs.bcm.edu/2014/08/20/saline-irrigation-offers-natural-option-for-sinus-infection-allergy-relief/
The boiled or distilled water part is important.
ETA: Trial of saline solution against microbes--https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-37703-3#Abs1
In the intervention arm, duration of illness was lower by 1.9 days (p = 0.01), over-the-counter medications (OTCM) use by 36% (p = 0.004), transmission within household contacts by 35% (p = 0.006) and viral shedding by ≥0.5 log10/day (p = 0.04). We hence need a larger trial to confirm our findings.
Teacher Terry
3-3-20, 1:35pm
A health care worker in placerville has it which is only a few hours away. My sister in Chicago said the home show was canceled which meant that they lost the revenue from 47000 hotel rooms plus food, etc.
My company has now banned all non-essential domestic airline travel, as well.
HR in each country (we’ve got offices across the globe) has been asked to put together a plan if people are unable to make it to the office. IT has so far refused to install the bit of remote desktop software needed to access industry software on non-company owner computers. We’ve asked. So they would have to issue laptops to everyone in order for us to work from home. Currently only supervisors on up have a laptop that can be taken home.
Anecdotal reports out of Seattle indicate it's impossible to get tested unless you meet narrow, clearly outdated, criteria. There is a maze of contact numbers, each one telling you to call another. chaos rules. I've read that Vietnam has it contained, with no new cases.
A health care worker in placerville has it which is only a few hours away. My sister in Chicago said the home show was canceled which meant that they lost the revenue from 47000 hotel rooms plus food, etc.
I could walk to the nursing home in Kirkland, probably. If I could walk.:D
The fire station is even closer, a couple of miles.
We have 6 cases now in my area and for the first time I'm feeling a bit apprehensive about going to the store for some stuff I forgot. I'm also bummed because I'd found a great Mexican restaurant nearby and now I'm hesitant to eat out.
Teacher Terry
3-3-20, 3:17pm
We are going to a big event with dinner for 300 that’s already paid for plus my husband will be setting up the event with others.
The last two cases in the Chicago area are in the next town over.
We have 6 cases now in my area and for the first time I'm feeling a bit apprehensive about going to the store for some stuff I forgot. I'm also bummed because I'd found a great Mexican restaurant nearby and now I'm hesitant to eat out.
Does the Mexican place deliver?
I think I'll invest in a beekeeper's outfit. Or hazmat gear.
I'm only half-kidding.
ApatheticNoMore
3-3-20, 6:30pm
And coworkers coming in sick to work again. It's a CULTURE (everywhere I ever worked), people are sick, people come in anyway (and I've taken sick sick days but so many don't, and no I have never gotten in trouble for that but never had to take sick days when on contract though). A few pathetic measly sick days won't change it, it's a culture. On the other hand work is "urgent" and I need help from coworker so. Laptops to work at home? Nah too much $, never gonna happen. True supposedly no cases reported here, but I'm not so sure about that ... but it's not a hot spot yet ...
They'd probably be out of them, Jane....you can't buy hand sanitizer anywhere in Clark County today.
ApatheticNoMore
3-3-20, 6:47pm
Be well Jane!
gimmethesimplelife
3-3-20, 8:03pm
And coworkers coming in sick to work again. It's a CULTURE (everywhere I ever worked), people are sick, people come in anyway (and I've taken sick sick days but so many don't, and no I have never gotten in trouble for that but never had to take sick days when on contract though). A few pathetic measly sick days won't change it, it's a culture. On the other hand work is "urgent" and I need help from coworker so. Laptops to work at home? Nah too much $, never gonna happen. True supposedly no cases reported here, but I'm not so sure about that ... but it's not a hot spot yet ...I agree. America's culture of work uber alles is toxic, evil, and both soul and people destroying. One perk if the coronavirus does kick America's rear end? Potentially a reset of society including less emphasis upon work. This is one reason I love YMOYL.....the passages about work being strictly about money and the very sane advice to take no identity whatsover from what you do for money. I can't change this unacceptable culture in America surrounding work.....but I can minimize how much I participate in it/buy into it. Rob
One perk if the coronavirus does kick America's rear end? Potentially a reset of society including less emphasis upon work.
"A reset of society" will involve the deaths of lots of innocent people.
I spent the day in the Emergency Operations Center working on Stuff. One of the cheery tasks I had was developing a model for how many body bags we had to have in stock, for our coroner.
Did people work less after the Black Death? Did they value leisure more? What about after the influenza epidemic of 1918?
I’ve read that the Black Death was a big factor in the serfs gaining their autonomy.
Teacher Terry
3-4-20, 1:35am
On one of my forums someone that posted for 23 years left his password for his kids. He didn’t say he was dying but his kids have enjoyed everyone’s posts. My husband asked me to leave him where I belong, etc, with my forums but I decided I wanted it to remain private. So if I decide to leave I will tell you. If not assume the inevitable.
"A reset of society" will involve the deaths of lots of innocent people.
I spent the day in the Emergency Operations Center working on Stuff. One of the cheery tasks I had was developing a model for how many body bags we had to have in stock, for our coroner.
Yes, there are going to be those who dont go or cant get to medical facilities if they have a severe case. Triage over the phone only works well when the patient gives accurate info and what they need is available. Sigh. Going to remain calm.
Some people are idiots. NH’s first case is a hospital employee who went to an invitation only event on Friday, despite being told to self isolate at home. Now people at the event have been told to self isolate.
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coronavirus/2nd-presumed-case-coronavirus-new-hampshire/2240615/
iris lilies
3-4-20, 8:44am
On one of my forums someone that posted for 23 years left his password for his kids. He didn’t say he was dying but his kids have enjoyed everyone’s posts. My husband asked me to leave him where I belong, etc, with my forums but I decided I wanted it to remain private. So if I decide to leave I will tell you. If not assume the inevitable.
In our “Legacy” file I list contact people to notify of our death for each group: family, neighborhood, garden clubs and plant societies, this forum.
Alan is my “contact person” for this forum, so he will be spreading any bad news here for me. Sorry in advance!
You’re so organized, iris lilies.
Some people are idiots. NH’s first case is a hospital employee who went to an invitation only event on Friday, despite being told to self isolate at home. Now people at the event have been told to self isolate.
https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coronavirus/2nd-presumed-case-coronavirus-new-hampshire/2240615/
Yeah, I was wondering how sure we could be with "self isolation". It's sort of a dangerous thing.
gimmethesimplelife
3-4-20, 9:33am
In our “Legacy” file I list contact people to notify of our death for each group: family, neighborhood, garden clubs and plant societies, this forum.
Alan is my “contact person” for this forum, so he will be spreading any bad news here for me. Sorry in advance!IL....just wanted to say that as a long termer here, I really respect that you have have something in place to let the forum know should something happen to you. I just think that's cool. It shows class, at least to me. And in a digital sense, it shows community, too. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-4-20, 9:37am
"A reset of society" will involve the deaths of lots of innocent people.
I spent the day in the Emergency Operations Center working on Stuff. One of the cheery tasks I had was developing a model for how many body bags we had to have in stock, for our coroner.I don't relish the thought and I agree a reset would be traumatic.....very traumatic. I am only seeking a silver lining should things soon morph into China/Iran/Italy bad. Perhaps ecenomic restructuring might a silver lining? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-4-20, 9:38am
I don't relish the thought and I agree a reset would be traumatic.....very traumatic. I am only seeking a silver lining should things soon morph into China/Iran/Italy bad. Perhaps ecenomic restructuring might a silver lining? RobShould be economic restructuring. Rob
Maricopa county (Phoenix and outlying areas) has its second case. The first one was weeks ago and I think related to travel, and the patient has recovered. This one, I’m not sure ...
Hubby who is a big Fox news fan came in telling me last night that "oh this virus has only killed a certain amount, etc, etc."
I told him that yes and it kills those above 60 years old, those with a compromised immune system.
And reminded him that since he is 67, with COPD, he fits into those categories...………
Maybe I am stressing for no reason?
I hope so, I really hope so.
They'd probably be out of them, Jane....you can't buy hand sanitizer anywhere in Clark County today.
There's that. I hear you can make hand sanitizer--2/3 isopropyl alcohol and 1/3 aloe vera. If you can find isopropyl.
One thing this is bringing home--there are supplies one should always keep on hand.
iris lilies
3-4-20, 11:33am
I don’t get why sanitizer is better than washing your hands in hot soapy water.
It this for occasions where you cannot get to water? I say, buy a bunch of disposable gloves and wear those, like to the grocery store.
Our grocery store has been providing sanitized throwaway cloths for their shopping carts for a while now, anyway.
Hubby who is a big Fox news fan came in telling me last night that "oh this virus has only killed a certain amount, etc, etc."
I told him that yes and it kills those above 60 years old, those with a compromised immune system.
And reminded him that since he is 67, with COPD, he fits into those categories...………
Maybe I am stressing for no reason?
I hope so, I really hope so.
Both my husband and I fall into the same two categories. I think your husband's approach is probably the healthiest. I figure fear and worry will supress my immune system.
Anyway, I don't really care about what happens to me, the only fear that chills me is for my kids and grandkids.
But I talked to one in Oregon yesterday and he calmed me down, so I think that is the right approach, be sensible, wash hands, and fear not.
dado potato
3-4-20, 12:36pm
In the news today I see that:
Italy banned public events (and closed movie theaters).
Israel said residents should stop shaking hands.
Saudi Arabia suspended Umra pilgrimages (to Mecca and Medina).
Starbucks decided that this year's annual meeting of shareholders will be "virtual only".
Both my husband and I fall into the same two categories. I think your husband's approach is probably the healthiest. I figure fear and worry will supress my immune system.
Anyway, I don't really care about what happens to me, the only fear that chills me is for my kids and grandkids.
But I talked to one in Oregon yesterday and he calmed me down, so I think that is the right approach, be sensible, wash hands, and fear not.
Children appear preternaturally immune, thank goodness. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/we-simply-do-not-understand-why-coronavirus-sparing-children-puzzling-n1147951
I don’t get why sanitizer is better than washing your hands in hot soapy water.
It this for occasions where you cannot get to water? I say, buy a bunch of disposable gloves and wear those, like to the grocery store.
Our grocery store has been providing sanitized throwaway cloths for their shopping carts for a while now, anyway.
I think it's just another tool. I have hand sanitizers, or I may break out gloves. I keep antiseptic wipes in the car.
It was just announced that the third case in the Chicago area did not travel overseas. They aren’t announcing how the patient might have contracted it. Probably don’t know at this point.
I don’t get why sanitizer is better than washing your hands in hot soapy water.
I've seen a few articles saying soap and water are as good or better than hand sanitizer, especially if you hands are dirty or oily. I'm in the soap and water school but use the hand wipes entering and leaving stores. So far we've not had and positive cases in our state, but I've noticed the stores are especially low on hand sanitizer but have plenty of different soaps. The only other thing that seems in short supply is toilet paper. A short article from consumer reports article comparing soap to sanitizer that references the CDC.
https://www.consumerreports.org/flu/hand-washing-vs-hand-sanitizer-better-for-flu-protection/
Proper hand washing is far superior to any dab of sanitizer or wipes. Here is a video from Dr. John Campbell on proper technique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AGW3bbcb3Y
Soap and water and *proper* washing is the gold standard.
Hand sanitizer is helpful for places where that isn't possible or convenient. For instance, every table at our Emergency Ops Center has a hand sanitizer setup available, and at the entrance, because unfortunately the building being used doesn't have proper handwashing facilities.
And at my fire station, there are sanitizer setups (which we already had mounted and in common use) at all the entrances into the "behind the scenes" spaces, so people moving from the public space into the staff space would improve their odds of not dragging some bug inside. In the main bay though, moving from the rigs/ambulances into the staff space, there's a proper decontamination room that we use when returning from a call.
Don't stress about hand sanitizers. Indeed, seeing how untrained people commonly use them, a dab of sanitizer goo patted on your paws like a magic potion seem unlikely to me to accomplish the job - you have to actually properly use the stuff.
Teacher Terry
3-4-20, 5:25pm
I hate hand sanitizers. They dry out my skin and feel sticky.
If many people have mild symptoms that can be confused with the flu, and some are asymptomatic, I don't think anyone has any idea how far the virus has spread and quarantines are shutting the barn door after the horse left.
If many people have mild symptoms that can be confused with the flu, and some are asymptomatic, I don't think anyone has any idea how far the virus has spread and quarantines are shutting the barn door after the horse left.
Correct.
gimmethesimplelife
3-5-20, 4:24pm
We just had our first conference cancellations and more are expected.....good thing I've been saving money. Rob
OK, I'll bite. At this point, what part of the US response to the coronavirus is inadequate?
The president went on tv and told people to go to work if they have it. Inadequate is, well, inadequate to describe that. That’s pretty much the worst response possible from the government.
The president went on tv and told people to go to work if they have it. Inadequate is, well, inadequate to describe that. That’s pretty much the worst response possible from the government.
Unfortunately some people are in the situation where if they don't work, they don't get paid. And for those that DO get "sick days", I know for my state/my situation you earn 1 hour of sick pay for every 30 hours worked, up to a maximum of 40 hours sick time for a year.
I'm thinking today about cancelling a routine dental appointment and undecided so far. I'm in one of the higher risk age groups, but no health issues. One of the talking head TV guys recommended avoiding unnecessary dental visits for higher risk groups, but at this point it seems slightly like overkill.
As salaried employee we had no specific sick leave. More than two sick days required a doctor note verifying you're sick and there might have been an upper limit that I don't recall. Fact was that most people didn't even use all of their vacation and most had to be really sick to call in. There was a lot of job performance pressures and avoidance of annual lay-offs.
iris lilies
3-6-20, 10:26am
You mean cancel for a cleaning?
Apparently, the administration's plan to deal with Covid 19 is to downplay it by refusing to test for it. Even at-risk health personnel can't get tested.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/covid-19-testing/
Yes, cleaning and routine exam. There's probably no harm in postponing it a couple of months to see how things will develop, but possibly still overcautious? Colorado just had our first two positive cases, but I suspect there will be more.
Yes, cleaning and routine exam. There's probably no harm in postponing it a couple of months to see how things will develop, but possibly still overcautious? Colorado just had our first two positive cases, but I suspect there will be more.
I would definitely postpone it.
Information is filtering out vis-a-vis autopsies on coronavirus victims:
https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/06/coronavirus-like-combination-sars-aids-doctors-say-12359066/
Teacher Terry
3-6-20, 1:22pm
Reno has it’s first case from a cruise passenger.
Why would you postpone it? (I have a horrible dental phobia so of course I would, but that's neither here nor there.)
Unfortunately some people are in the situation where if they don't work, they don't get paid. And for those that DO get "sick days", I know for my state/my situation you earn 1 hour of sick pay for every 30 hours worked, up to a maximum of 40 hours sick time for a year.
While it's true that some people's boss/bank account/desire to use time off for other purposes will make them go to work when sick, those are very different from being told to go to work by the head of the government. The former are unfortunate or selfish. The latter is a gross abdication of the man's duties as president.
Why would you postpone it? (I have a horrible dental phobia so of course I would, but that's neither here nor there.)
I can only imagine the reasoning given by the talking head who recommended it. Mine would be that covid-19 is spread through the respiratory droplets which dentists have routine intimate contact with, that they may have treated someone who is asymptomatic but capable of infecting others, that their office disinfection procedures are less than perfect and that I'm in a higher risk age group than average.
I suppose dental office visits these days would screen with questions around recent travel history, any respiratory health concerns, and a quick temperature check.
I suppose dental office visits these days would screen with questions around recent travel history, any respiratory health concerns, and a quick temperature check.
From my briefings this week, as of last Friday we stopped really worrying about "recent travel history", except as a matter of statistics and contact tracing, as the virus is now in the community. Symptoms are sufficient to raise concern at this point.
Knowing that someone has no travel history may only produce a false sense of security.
My employer's national governing body has recommended we turn off all drinking fountains. This is going to be unpopular with the many choirs who perform and practice here. Oh well, they can bring in their own plastic bottles.
Knowing that someone has no travel history may only produce a false sense of security.
I suppose what they are calling community spread may be inevitable. Our first case was interesting. A young man who had recently been in Italy and flew to Colorado to a ski area. No symptoms during travel but at the ski area he showed some of the symptoms and immediately went to the area hospital and told of his travel history. The second case was an elderly lady who had been on a cruise ship recently. That might be how it all starts. I've watched too many vampire movies.
I had a click bait ad show up on my computer advertising N95 masks...$35.95 each. That's just wrong.
gimmethesimplelife
3-6-20, 3:53pm
You mean cancel for a cleaning?I'm debating not going to Mexico next month for a cleaning which may be a tad hypocritical on my part as Mexico has fewer cases than the US - both literally and on a per capita basis. Perhaps it would be wise for Mexico to bar access to Americans to prevent spread of the virus? Rob
At one time early on with this I was thinking, now here's one Trump failure that he can't blame on Hillary or Obama. I totally underestimated him. Seems to deal with the lack of test kits and some imaginary Obama rule that Trump rolled back.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-misplaced-blame-on-obama-for-coronavirus-tests/
I see that South x Southwest has been cancelled! I feel so bad for the musicians, conference goers, and the city of Austin.
I see that South x Southwest has been cancelled!
Yeah, DD just texted me. She had platinum tickets to attend through work so very disappointed. As I understand, it was a city decision and not the festival managers. They wanted to carry on but so many vendors had dropped out anyway.
He also disbanded the Pandemic Response Team created by President Obama, and hasn't replaced the many CDC staffers that quit or were fired. "Trimming the fat," don't you know...
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/
flowerseverywhere
3-6-20, 11:19pm
From my briefings this week, as of last Friday we stopped really worrying about "recent travel history", except as a matter of statistics and contact tracing, as the virus is now in the community. Symptoms are sufficient to raise concern at this point.
Knowing that someone has no travel history may only produce a false sense of security.
bae, what do you think about this CDC advice? You seem to be very informed
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/specific-groups/high-risk-complications.html
per the explanation on CNN people over 60 should stay at home as much as possible per epidemiologists they interviewed
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/06/health/coronavirus-older-people-social-distancing/index.html
Both of my hands have painful cracked skin from excessive washing. The skin was already dry and now it looks like it might bleed. I need to let up on the washing.
I like this video:
https://youtu.be/uo7HB-slsm4
I have a cruise to Alaska planned for early May. The cruise line has offered to exchange the cruise for another cruise scheduled before Dec 31/20. What would you do?
iris lilies
3-7-20, 9:08am
I have a cruise to Alaska planned for early May. The cruise line has offered to exchange the cruise for another cruise scheduled before Dec 31/20. What would you do?
Take the exchange. But realistically is there a cruise that you would take in November or December? It’s really not a very good offer.
We have land trips planned for May, but it’s entirely possible both conferences will be called off, I am not making any airfare reservations that I can’t afford to lose.
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-20, 10:21am
I now find myself with unexpected time off in what should be peak season due to corporate cancellations. I am not out of a job but the juicy overtime is fading away. At least I got some of the juicy overtime with 15% of it going towards my 401 (K). At any rate, I'm going to Mexico - Los Algodones - next week. Dental cleaning, night guards, bp meds, valerian, bee pollen, copper cuff bands and soap. And Retin A and renova. Will post as to whether the border is paranoid - on both sides. I'm wondering if reentering the US is going to be more bizarre than usual now. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-20, 10:24am
I have a cruise to Alaska planned for early May. The cruise line has offered to exchange the cruise for another cruise scheduled before Dec 31/20. What would you do?That's a hard call. Alaska is indeed incredibly beautiful. There's a but coming, though - this virus seems to like nursing homes and cruise ships, though. That said, I'm risking it and traveling to Mexico next week. Rob
I have a cruise to Alaska planned for early May. The cruise line has offered to exchange the cruise for another cruise scheduled before Dec 31/20. What would you do?
I'm a little bit of a germaphobe, but I plan on following the CDC recommendations for older people, stay at home as much as possible and avoid crowds. I enjoy outdoor activity and don't plan on holing up in my house. There are plenty of outdoor things this time of year that don't involve indoor crowds.
With a little luck this will be like the seasonal flu and there will be some relief by May, but you never know. If it were me I might see if there is a possibility of a full or partial refund and look for an alternate vacation rather than locking into a December cruise, if that's even possible?
Teacher Terry
3-7-20, 12:36pm
It’s not a good offer because Alaskan cruises are expensive and in November or December you will end up in the Caribbean which is cheap. Depending on the room you booked ask if you could stand to be quarantined in it for 2 weeks. If you have a balcony that would be better. We always book a inside cabin because we like it dark to sleep and are never in our room. Being in a high risk group you couldn’t pay me to go. I do love cruises and that one is excellent.
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-20, 12:45pm
There's a new case in Maricopa County, Arizona, said to be community spread. Good thing I'm so close to Mexico to stock up on meds! I'm thinking we may indeed encounter significant disruptions to our lives but time will tell. Rob
Though I'm the furthest thing from a germophobe, and I haven't had the flu--or even a cold that I can remember--for some 25 years, I'm taking extraordinary (for me) precautions for this outbreak.
Teacher Terry
3-7-20, 1:32pm
Part of the problem is if one person stays home and the other one goes to large events they will bring it home. How to agree to self isolate and for how long not knowing if this is only the beginning?
Though I'm the furthest thing from a germophobe, and I haven't had the flu--or even a cold that I can remember--for some 25 years, I'm taking extraordinary (for me) precautions for this outbreak.
Me too. Some fellow moderators have emailed me asking what I'm doing--refusing to travel, etc. I mentioned in another thread that for the first time I'm considering asking my client if I can do a video interview rather than an in-person interview I have scheduled in a couple of weeks.
As for TTs question about one person holing up and the other going out, that's a good question. DH and I are both looking forward to getting back to the island next week. Unless we go into Burlington, we can stay pretty much self-quarantined up there. The winter population is 500, and no one does much. We'll see what happens in the spring.
Re the Alaska Cruise: We have a trip to Italy in late Sept. ???? My husband said "how flexible are you to delays?" We are totally flexible and have no one to report to if we are stuck somewhere for another month. Even have multiple cat sitters. But others not so much.
Teacher Terry
3-7-20, 5:25pm
Part of it to if you get stuck for a month can you handle the expenses of hotel, etc if you aren’t on a ship.
My wording was not quite accurately reflecting the cruise line's offer:
"Any cancellation will receive a Future Cruise Credit (FCC) for the amount of your cancellation fee, which can be used for another cruise in 2020 or 2021.
The FCC must be booked by December 31, 2020. This applies to bookings on spring 2020 Land+Sea Journeys and cruises for all destinations.
FCCs are nonrefundable, non-transferrable and do not have to be used on the same destination that was cancelled."
IMO, it is a fair offer giving the cruise line some indication of the public's concern about that cruise. My travel partner and I are considering all the issues of the cruise including the flexibility of the flight there and back which was arranged separately. For all we know the whole cruise may be cancelled if enough travellers withdraw or the advisory re travel changes significantly.
"The FCC must be booked by December 31, 2020"
"Booked" using this credit will allow you to take any cruise that is on their schedule at the time you book, which undoubtedly will include many months into 2021.
That is my understanding, Steve.
My mind is having a hard time getting around the idea that - one person in China bought from their local market and ate a wild animal which had been infected by a bat; this decision is triggering literally many billions of losses of $$$$$$ and thousands in loss of life. Imagine the budgets of the now unemployed or under-employed, the economies affected...
My mind is having a hard time getting around the idea that - one person in China bought from their local market and ate a wild animal which had been infected by a bat; this decision is triggering literally many billions of losses of $$$$$$ and thousands in loss of life. Imagine the budgets of the now unemployed or under-employed, the economies affected...
That's the basic plot for the movie Contagion from 2011. I have to admit, when I saw the movie, I could easily see it happening in real life. I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened before.
It is also the progression of the Ebola disease in Africa that killed well over half of those infected. Someone ate or was bitten by something that was contaminated and then had the ability to transmit between humans.
The 1918 flu is somewhat famous, but I was reading about the 1957 flue epidemic where there were over a hundred thousand deaths in the US. I don't recall parents or any other ancestors talking about it or any recollections at all of it causing the same sort of social excitement. Maybe we were coming off of WWII and mass casualties were just the order of things or maybe I just missed hearing about in my younger years. It apparently favored both young and old. I wonder if calling a halt to so many things is right or wrong and really don't know, but there is a little bump up in health risk for everyone. I plan on shaking hands with old friends and hugging mother or sister like folks in my life unless things change. Other things I will do differently but I don't see it as a big issue in the quality of life. I don't know if it's over dramatic to say, stay calm, carry on, be well.
I plan on shaking hands with old friends and hugging mother or sister like folks in my life unless things change. Other things I will do differently but I don't see it as a big issue in the quality of life. I don't know if it's over dramatic to say, stay calm, carry on, be well.
I don't think it's over-dramatic. Every day we straddle that line between security and living.
One of our dance groups held a dance last night. There seemed to be the usual amount of handshaking and hugging. I am hopeful that COVID-19 will run its course in a few months. If we knew that it would, then new habits like elbow bumping instead of shaking hands (or even the dancing itself) would make more sense and be easier to do. But if COVID-19 turns out to be something like the common cold with more morbidity, would we want to give up activities we enjoy very much even if they involved human contact and you merely could get sick? We get in our cars every day and go places even though getting into an accident could injure or kill you.
Teacher Terry
3-8-20, 11:47am
We were at a big dinner last night with our Irish group who are very hands on. Probably 200 people there and had to remind a few we are now doing elbow bumps. They all laughed but complied. No one was offended.
We were at a big dinner last night with our Irish group who are very hands on. Probably 200 people there and had to remind a few we are now doing elbow bumps. They all laughed but complied. No one was offended.
Afer a few Guinnesses who cares about a little virus? :)
Teacher Terry
3-8-20, 12:21pm
They are big on whiskey tasting at these events:))
ApatheticNoMore
3-8-20, 1:00pm
It does illustrate how much plane and cruise travel is unnecessary. That represents unnecessary carbon usage etc.. That we can do without it, do the same thing with the internet as we do by flying all over the place, and life goes on (yea life is crazy in say China or South Korea but that is obviously not what I'm referring to, I mean all this travel all over the world is unnecessary to our lives).
It's like the great recession and how carbon usage went down and yet life went on. These are models of what is possible. Now all that is left is to aim for them without an epidemic, without so much economic suffering as a severe recession. Yea I know the human race is more likely to continue on a suicidal path, hey uninhabitable planet in 50 years or something, I mean most of our choices seem for annihilation, but there are hints sometimes, another option is possible. The universe is gonna keep sending them until it doesn't.
It does illustrate how much plane and cruise travel is unnecessary. That represents unnecessary carbon usage etc.. That we can do without it, do the same thing with the internet as we do by flying all over the place, and life goes on (yea life is crazy in say China or South Korea but that is obviously not what I'm referring to, I mean all this travel all over the world is unnecessary to our lives).
It's like the great recession and how carbon usage went down and yet life went on. These are models of what is possible. Now all that is left is to aim for them without an epidemic, without so much economic suffering as a severe recession. Yea I know the human race is more likely to continue on a suicidal path, hey uninhabitable planet in 50 years or something, I mean most of our choices seem for annihilation, but there are hints sometimes, another option is possible. The universe is gonna keep sending them until it doesn't.
I agree. I'll never understand the need for countless face to face meetings. You'd think now that we have the technology, we'd just teleconference. And, as we know, most business meetings are pointless anyway.
gimmethesimplelife
3-8-20, 3:29pm
I agree. I'll never understand the need for countless face to face meetings. You'd think now that we have the technology, we'd just teleconference. And, as we know, most business meetings are pointless anyway.Agreed. I remember much talk of teleconferencing and cutting business travel expenses to the bone during the Great Recession but somehow this got swept aside as the DOW started to improve. It really does seem to me that much business travel is unnecessary given the technology available today - but then I'm talking myself out of a job, too. Rarely any easy answer(s).....Rob
As someone who works in an industry that values face to face meetings I agree that some meetings are unnecessary. But the reality is that human beings are social creatures. I don’t see myself cutting the amount of times I invite people to meet for coffee or drinks or a meal together anytime soon. The goodwill and trust that is built from getting to know people one does business was with definitely results in more business being transacted.
As someone who works in an industry that values face to face meetings I agree that some meetings are unnecessary. But the reality is that human beings are social creatures. I don’t see myself cutting the amount of times I invite people to meet for coffee or drinks or a meal together anytime soon. The goodwill and trust that is built from getting to know people one does business was with definitely results in more business being transacted.
As much as I ride the technology bandwagon, I don't believe teleconferencing can suitably replace face-to-face contact. I don't even think it's a particularly good substitute for it in many cases.
The technology is highly variable, dependent on the budget and abilities of the participants; sometimes the contact is reduced to poor-quality voices on a speakerphone. Often the people hired to do the most customer-facing work are the ones who are weakest at using the technology that enables them. Teleconferencing tends to focus on the person speaking or on the Powerpoint or demo, but does not allow you to access other details around the meeting room -- seeing whether participants' overall focus is flagging, catching the look of confusion on faces. In addition, you often lose the human non-work-related connections made when chatting upon arriving at the meeting, or during the drinks or dinner after the meeting. Just as watching a sport live allows you to focus on what's going on beyond the current focus, a live meeting offers the same options. Teleconferencing just is not the same.
dado potato
3-9-20, 12:31am
Wisconsin is hoarding brandy (especially Korbel). Georgia and Texas are hoarding ammo.
To each, his own
Water was up from 50 to 75 cents per gallon at the price gouging supermarket. They also had toilet paper at regular price prominently displayed. On the good side gas prices are falling.
The thing I remember most from face-to-face meetings, was the level of control exerted and desired by certain managers. I really think a lot of that would be lost with teleconferencing, and I don't think a lot of managers would like that loss.
Wisconsin is hoarding brandy (especially Korbel). Georgia and Texas are hoarding ammo.
To each, his own
Personally, I'm trying to stock up a little extra on grains and beans. lol.
iris lilies
3-9-20, 9:26am
We have grocery delivery here, so i dont worry about stocking up.I woild have the delivery people leave sacks on the sidewalk, they wouldn't not come into our house. I mean, this assumes we are wuarentined and the rest of the world is not.
We have a freezer full of stuff, as well as a fair amount of beans and rice. But the fresh stuff we would miss after a few days.
I am glad gardening season is around the corner so we can grow some fresh stuff. Starting seeds in the windows now.
Teacher Terry
3-9-20, 11:47am
My son called last night and gave me a hard time about going to so many large events. I am skipping the parade that I was supposed to march in on Saturday but my husband is still going calling me paranoid.
A New York doctor was on CNBC making a case for urgency in this matter. This "exceptional" country is only testing a tiny fraction of what other countries are. He expects us to be swamped in no time. This is truly disgusting.
I’m going to be skipping the gym for the time being and working out at home.
I've been thinking the same Tradd. Not so much because I'm worried about getting sick but since we have contact with so many compromised elderly in our volunteer work. I would hate to think that I somehow carried something in and put somebody at risk.
Wanted to go to a gardening conference this coming weekend but now I don't know. It is in a hotel conference center with people from all over the state. I noticed it is not sold out as in years past. There is just so much uncertainty...
I've been thinking the same Tradd. Not so much because I'm worried about getting sick but since we have contact with so many compromised elderly in our volunteer work. I would hate to think that I somehow carried something in and put somebody at risk.
The gym is like a Petri dish. I’ve only been using the bike (and fewer people use the recumbent, which is what I use), but I don’t want to get sick. Found modified burpees online. The regular ones hurt my knees. I got such a good workout on the bike, but better safe than sorry.
I’m still going to church. It’s Lent, so there are more people at services, but our parish is about 175 at the most.
No hugging, etc.
I had plans to visit my favorite niece and her kids for the last few weeks but they've been sick (family of 7) so the visit keeps getting postponed. Now the CDC is advising those with compromised immune systems to take extra precautions. I fall in that category. They are finally all recovered and I'm not sick, but now I'm nervous about going. Last time I went, early February, I came down with a bad cold as soon as I got home. That cold was bad for a week and then took another week to clear up. Don't know if I'm being paranoid or practical. They'll think I'm being paranoid for sure (youthful optimism), but...
My immune system has always served me well, but it hasn't been called upon to do much for many years. I'm not interested in testing it on an unknown that may result in fibrosis or worse.
I got a message from my doctor yesterday, she wants me have some follow up bloodwork done just to make sure a few conditions are still okay from all the stuff I had last year. I really don't want to be in a hospital right now. I'm going to hold off on it as long as I can. I hope I don't regret it.
I’m still going to church. It’s Lent, so there are more people at services, but our parish is about 175 at the most.
No hugging, etc.
Same here. We were wondering if the church would be emptier, especially since traditional churches have such a high proportion of elderly parishioners (at least in the Northeast). But it was the same attendance. The priest gave us the run-down on social distancing and also best communion practices.
ApatheticNoMore
3-9-20, 2:40pm
I'm going to the gym, I credit it in part for why I never get sick pretty much as is. If I was high risk I might get grocery delivery (over 60, preexisting conditions), being I'm not, I see no reason to do so. I have a risk of getting sick, well so does the delivery person, and probably not much different than mine.
Same here. We were wondering if the church would be emptier, especially since traditional churches have such a high proportion of elderly parishioners (at least in the Northeast). But it was the same attendance. The priest gave us the run-down on social distancing and also best communion practices.
Ours was down about 60 in attendance (130 from 190)
iris lilies
3-9-20, 5:48pm
A priest in Washington DC gave communion to 500 people and has tested positive for coronavirus. So church may not be the place to go.
It's and excellent time of year for bird watching and gardening.
iris lilies
3-9-20, 8:34pm
Oh and our first diagnosed case in the St. Louis region was self quarantining, along with her family. Until they weren’t.
The daughter of the family came home from Italy after studying there. She was verified to have the coronavirus. The entire family was told to stay in. Dad and younger sister decided that they didn’t need to follow that directive And they went to a father daughter dance Saturday night in a room full of many people. So that was an excellent way to spread the thing.
I guess they are very special people to not have to pay attention to basic health directive or even common sense.
Edited to add: this family lawyered up pretty fast, not surprising because they are from the ritziest ZIP Code in St. Louis.They are claiming their local health department did not tell them to quarantine themselves,that only the college age daughter was supposed to be quarantined.
Teacher Terry
3-9-20, 11:47pm
IL, really self centered. Ugh!
IL, I saw that, too. Selfish people.
Teacher Terry
3-10-20, 12:20pm
In Italy you can get 3-6 months in jail for violating the quarantine. Trump shook hands with 2 people that now have the virus. His attitude has been very cavalier about it.
Well, I just checked with my travel insurance about my Alaska cruise in early May. Because there has been a travel advisory ban against cruises in effect until the end of April, I can now cancel the whole trip and am covered both flight and cruise by my travel insurance to the amount that I chose to purchase. It is all good and I am home in comfort.
A couple has returned from a cruise to Australia/NZ which was to continue to Hong Kong and other parts of Asia. Since the trip to Asia was concelled, they had to purchase return home tickets at a premoim price and other related expenses before they could return home. He is trying to find out how much their insurance will cover of those extra costs.
Life is interesting these days.
I just finished making the statistical model our County will use for figuring out what to do.
I used as much information on infection rates and such as was available as of Sunday evening.
Basic top-level takeaways:
- One week after an initial infection appears in your community, things really speed up. The inflection point is at about day 5/6.
- About 2 weeks after the initial infection appears, assuming things go as they did in China, infections will have reached about 90% of their peak.
- People who get the "just a cold"-level infection take about 2 weeks to be happy again.
- People who get the "super bad flu or worse" infection take 3-6 weeks to be happy again, assuming they live.
Conclusion: 2 months' supply of toilet paper, bacon, and coffee should do you just fine.
iris lilies
3-10-20, 3:18pm
Bae, good to know. Looks like I can book plane trip for early July. Late May is more sketchy.
Bae, good to know. Looks like I can book plane trip for early July. Late May is more sketchy.
I have my 35th Princeton Reunion in late May, and I'm really on the fence. Princeton basically has shut down for now - all remote classes, no meetings/gatherings/events, and so on.
Probably will keep my reservations open for hotels, but I haven't booked my travel yet. Bother.
A reporter on MSNBC mentioned that one of the recommendations was that people 60 and over stay off airplanes for the duration, but that hasn't filtered out of the containment capsule in Washington DC.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/06/health/coronavirus-older-people-social-distancing/index.html
"The CDC guidance comes as two top infectious disease experts with ties to the federal government have advised people over 60 and those with underlying health problems to strongly consider avoiding activities that involve large crowds. Dr. William Schaffner, a Vanderbilt University professor and longtime adviser to the CDC, said these two groups should consider avoiding activities such as traveling by airplane, going to movie theaters, attending family events, shopping at crowded malls, and going to religious services."
I just finished making the statistical model our County will use for figuring out what to do.
I used as much information on infection rates and such as was available as of Sunday evening.
Basic top-level takeaways:
- One week after an initial infection appears in your community, things really speed up. The inflection point is at about day 5/6.
- About 2 weeks after the initial infection appears, assuming things go as they did in China, infections will have reached about 90% of their peak.
- People who get the "just a cold"-level infection take about 2 weeks to be happy again.
- People who get the "super bad flu or worse" infection take 3-6 weeks to be happy again, assuming they live.
Conclusion: 2 months' supply of toilet paper, bacon, and coffee should do you just fine.
I've been following the "worldometer" and that seems about right just form my amateur swag, or at least I hope so, but peak infection seems dependent on containment and early detection. There's the large population sample in China and a similar trend in Japan and S Korea, but Italy and Iran who have fewer medical resources or different containment procedures have not followed suit. I suspect your take is more accurate and with better information.
dado potato
3-10-20, 5:47pm
The first state to establish a Containment Zone was New York, designating the area within a 1-mile radius of the Young Israel Synagogue in New Rochelle, NY.
According to news coverage, the rabbi and 108 members of the congregation have contracted COVID-19, and have been under voluntary quarantine since last week.
In the Containment Zone large public gatherings are banned. People are allowed to go in and out of the area. Local shops are expected to remain open. The numerous public and private schools will be closed for cleaning. The National Guard will be deployed to support the containment. Mayor Noam Bramson explained to NPR that the National Guard will not be involved in military or policing functions, but will deliver food to residents and assist with cleaning.
A priest in Washington DC gave communion to 500 people and has tested positive for coronavirus. So church may not be the place to go.
:0!>:(
ApatheticNoMore
3-10-20, 5:51pm
The thing is I've already been seeing colds last 2 weeks around here, wondering: "what is wrong with these people, why don't they get better already, whoever heard of a cold lasting more than like a week?" Might not be corona but ...
I rarely get over a cold in a week. First is the sore throat, then the congestion and runny nose, then the coughing. Three or more weeks is typical for me.
To add, I've read that the timeline from contracting the virus to showing symptoms is typically 5-6 days, in case you've been out-n-about and now wondering.
ANM: There is the cold and there is the flu. I always feel a cold lasts a week. The flu much longer at least with the cough and lack of energy. Throw in bronchitis, which is an issue I have with asthma, and three weeks or more is possible.
The other thing I’ve read, though, is that covid19 doesn’t typically present like a regular cold. The infection is deeper in the lungs so typically it’s all cough and fever, not so much a sore throat, runny nose etc. that said, enough people who’ve tested positive for the coronavirus have had nose-ish symptoms to make it uncertain what you have if you are presenting with more typical cold/flu symptoms.
Basically, the symptom/diagnostic information changes every day (or hour), so pretty much don't waste your time on the Internet for now, and just be prudent.
Speaking as my County's sorta-semi-official Epidemiologist, and consulting constantly with The Real Deal people at the state and federal levels.
(It should chill your bones that a retired statistician who specializes in high energy physics, and communications network modelling, has been drafted, btw... They handed me a textbook last week and said "have at it!". I would have expected Better Of Our Nation. This is like a bad Contagion movie.)
While I am getting depressed and scared over this whole mess, and extremely stressed about whether to cancel an upcoming flight to visit my grandson on his birthday, I am glad they picked you and very grateful, Bae.
Basically, the symptom/diagnostic information changes every day (or hour), so pretty much don't waste your time on the Internet for now, and just be prudent.
Speaking as my County's sorta-semi-official Epidemiologist, and consulting constantly with The Real Deal people at the state and federal levels.
(It should chill your bones that a retired statistician who specializes in high energy physics, and communications network modelling, has been drafted, btw... They handed me a textbook last week and said "have at it!". I would have expected Better Of Our Nation. This is like a bad Contagion movie.)
Actually, you make perfect sense as the candidate for the role - statistics, analytical, communication and familiarity with the neighbourhood's environment including access to care - all essential components of accurate reporting. The assessment and diagnosis is part of the medical community's responsibility. Sounds like your community has it all under control.
happystuff
3-11-20, 7:54am
The thing is I've already been seeing colds last 2 weeks around here, wondering: "what is wrong with these people, why don't they get better already, whoever heard of a cold lasting more than like a week?" Might not be corona but ...
I don't seem to get over things very quickly any more. I was sick for all of January and most of February slight temperature, productive cough, tired, etc. First a course of antibiotic and then steroids before I finally started feeling better. Whatever it was seemed to settle in my lungs, so I'm a bit nervous about the virus. We'll see. Hope everyone stays safe and healthy.
My company has made its preparations for us to work from home if needed. I have some customers who still work off paper original bills of lading (need to be surrendered for shipment release) and paper checks. I’ve contacted them all and told them they MUST go to electronic documents (surrender OBL at origin) and electronic payments. If we’re shut down paper docs and paper checks mean cargo release delays. All electronic stuff means no delays. A couple don’t want to do it. I told them that if there are any delays/storage on their shipments due to their refusal to comply, they’re responsible for those extra charges, not my company. We’ve given them plenty of notice. I’m making sure I have all docs printed out that I have and requesting what I don’t have. That way I could just scoop up files and work at home without issue.
Fingers crossed you get to work at home, Tradd, although it would be better if there was no need, if that makes sense.
dado potato
3-11-20, 5:27pm
The State of Washington, in the person of Governor Jay Inslee, has banned events that would include more than 250 people in 3 counties: King, Snohomish, and Pierce.
The Governor is not currently planning to call for school closures, but he is asking school districts to make contingency plans for closure lasting several weeks.
Our intrepid governor, AKA "Snake." Ah, for a return to civility...
In other news, I just placed an on-line order to pick up groceries tomorrow. I'll be wearing full hazmat--IOW nitrile gloves and a handful of disinfecting wipes.
Work also told us to make a list of our logins and passwords (we have lots of them) for various websites we use. You can easily pull this info out of the browser. One coworker who consistently shows herself to be an entitled idiot refused to do it and said she’d call me for the info. She thinks this is all a big joke. I told her absolutely not. Boss backed me up. Her stuff will be totally different from mine. She actually threw a temper tantrum. I sarcastically call her Princess to her face. I’ve posted about her before.
As far as this being a joke, a hoax, or media-inflated hype--Does anyone really believe the WHO, CDC, and countless countries around the globe would be taking unprecedented precautions and huge financial hits just for the fun of it? I can't say I understand what makes this affliction different from the annual flu strains that change and mutate and cause scientists to develop new vaccines, but I have some confidence that epidemiologists do. And they seem very, very concerned.
As far as this being a joke, a hoax, or media-inflated hype--Does anyone really believe the WHO, CDC, and countless countries around the globe would be taking unprecedented precautions and huge financial hits just for the fun of it? I can't say I understand what makes this affliction different from the annual flue strains that change and mutate and cause scientists to develop new vaccines, but I have some confidence that epidemiologists do. And they seem very, very concerned.
One of the talking head medical scientists I saw said, this just in not the flu and people need to stop the comparisons. What seems unique to me is the rate at which it spreads from just one person to a large number in short amount of time and with limited contact. For example, the synagogue in New York, or the Kirkland nursing home, or the religious sect in South Korea. I can see some panic over-reactions but some of the containment and self-isolation advice makes sense to me.
Yeah, I understand that it isn't the flu, but it doesn't--on the face of it--look a lot different. I think one of the problems with it is that we don't yet know much about it. That's why I'm not an epidemiologist.
Isn't it a variant of the flu, also a virus, transmitted the same way amongst people, but as a novel virus one that no one has developed immunity to yet, and for which no vaccine has been developed yet? I find the comparisons pretty accurate.
Simplemind
3-11-20, 7:23pm
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
Interesting article
ApatheticNoMore
3-11-20, 7:39pm
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
Interesting article
That guy has no qualifications, no expertise to speak on the topic as far as I can tell. So he cashes in on corona and pumps his media presence, this writer of random click bait articles (look at his prior articles). Always grifters (um influencers) in a crisis, seeking an opportunity to cash in.
Look he could be wrong, he could be right. But why are we taking advice from people with no qualifications to give it? There is a time for opinions, and everyone has one, and a time to take whatever real information we get (and yes this is hard in the U.S. due to the Trump administration policy of blocking information). Not of course that anyone could act on this information, these are not decisions in individuals hands. So wash your hands :laff:
Isn't it a variant of the flu, also a virus, transmitted the same way amongst people, but as a novel virus one that no one has developed immunity to yet, and for which no vaccine has been developed yet? I find the comparisons pretty accurate.
Are SARS and MERS a variant of the flu and how do they compare to Covid-19 or do they all compare to each other and the common flu?
As far as this being a joke, a hoax, or media-inflated hype--Does anyone really believe the WHO, CDC, and countless countries around the globe would be taking unprecedented precautions and huge financial hits just for the fun of it? I can't say I understand what makes this affliction different from the annual flu strains that change and mutate and cause scientists to develop new vaccines, but I have some confidence that epidemiologists do. And they seem very, very concerned.
My coworker is an idiot. She can’t be bothered to prepare for anything whether it is a snowstorm or this virus.
Simplemind
3-11-20, 9:13pm
You're right ANM, he could be right and he could be wrong. Which brings me to my favorite quote today "We don't have a lot of studies, but is panic really worse than neglect and carelessness during an epidemic of this sort?" Dr. Daniele Macchini. ICU doc in Bergamo.
I'm not feeling panic but I am also prepared to generally isolate for the health and welfare of the high risk people I do need to come in contact with. I don't believe just washing your hands and going your merry way is going to cut it. But I could be wrong...….. (We can assess in 60 days)
Work just got really interesting for tomorrow.
NBA has just suspended its season.
dado potato
3-11-20, 11:54pm
San Francisco CA has prohibited public and private events of 1.000 people or more. The ban will be in effect for 2 weeks.
I got my hair cut the shortest it has ever been. This week my governor declared a state of emergency and if this expands to salons I will be set for awhile.
Rogar, here is the first comparison article I found: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/coronavirus-diseases-comparing-covid-19-sars-mers-numbers-n1150321
happystuff
3-12-20, 8:03am
My temple has just canceled all events for March and April. It's a good thing as one of the directors does have health issues and would died if caught the virus.
I think that's prudent, happystuff. Glad you guys are trying to play it safe.
Are SARS and MERS a variant of the flu and how do they compare to Covid-19 or do they all compare to each other and the common flu?
YES. Covid-19 is the 7th variance of Coronavirus. Common flu is not related. Covid is not "just a flu" as I've seen some people say out there on FB.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html
iris lilies
3-12-20, 11:37am
YES. Covid-19 is the 7th variance of Coronavirus. Common flu is not related. Covid is not "just a flu" as I've seen some people say out there on FB.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html
Last year we had multiple respiratory infections in our house, very unusual for me but not so unusual for DH. Our dog was also coughing and hacking throughout the year. We joked that we had a zoonosis infection we were passing back and forth, likely us passing it to him. Poor old guy.
But really it was more likely his heart condition was causing his cough and inability to get ride of mucus.
I wont even voice the worry I have about our dog rescue operation during this health crises. Right now I have a smart, well behaved foster dog who unfortunately hates other dogs. I wont be able to take in any more dogs. Unless we operate from two houses, city and Hermann. Hmmmm, that was a new thought.
We have already had some small measure of civil disorder here:
- local infant-care/preschool facility was broken into this week and had its supply closet of toilet paper, paper towels, wipes, sanitizing supplies cleaned out
- parking lot in the public school complex is having cars broken into and riffled through, peoples' car supply kits getting taken
The County is poised to declare a state of emergency 9am tomorrow morning, so that should calm things down...
iris lily
3-12-20, 12:49pm
We have already had some small measure of civil disorder here:
- local infant-care/preschool facility was broken into this week and had its supply closet of toilet paper, paper towels, wipes, sanitizing supplies cleaned out
- parking lot in the public school complex is having cars broken into and riffled through, peoples' car supply kits getting taken
The County is poised to declare a state of emergency 9am tomorrow morning, so that should calm things down...
What is a “car supply kit?”
Here, they just break into cars primarily looking for guns, altho cash and high end electronics are attractive. Perhaps we have not reached the toilet paper thieving stage yet.
Really, what is this bloody obsession with toilet paper? I just don’t get it. Granted, it is easy for me to do laundry and I am constantly doing pet laundery with bodily excretions but it isnt that hard to come up with an alternative.
catherine
3-12-20, 12:51pm
We have already had some small measure of civil disorder here:
- local infant-care/preschool facility was broken into this week and had its supply closet of toilet paper, paper towels, wipes, sanitizing supplies cleaned out
- parking lot in the public school complex is having cars broken into and riffled through, peoples' car supply kits getting taken
The County is poised to declare a state of emergency 9am tomorrow morning, so that should calm things down...
I read a good article about how this thing is scary in two ways: the virus itself, but also the fear-based behavior of people who are so quick to abandon civility. We heard about the consequences of that mindset in Germany during WWII, but our relative Pax Americana has kept us from witnessing it first hand. Frankly, if I have a choice between a virus and a mob of fearful people, give me the virus.
Stealing TP and sanitizing wipes from a PRESCHOOL?? Really??
What is a “car supply kit?”
Because of our location, people here tend to carry a wee bit of stuff in their car in case they get stranded by the ferry somewhere: a bit of food, bottled water, blanket, toilet paper, wipes, a book - that sort of stuff.
Teacher Terry
3-12-20, 1:15pm
Bae, that’s really awful. Makes you really wonder about people.
My understanding--from what I saw on the news last night--is that what is different about this virus is that it's highly contagious, so unless it's contained early (which we can't gauge without tests) it will result in overwhelming the one million hospital beds we have available in this country, putting people who need them for other conditions at increased risk and completely swamping medical personnel. We can be thankful that it's not more debilitating for most.
The only thing that worries me about Covid-19, is those who are not concerned and calling it 'the flu'. Those are the people not washing their hands, coughing into their hands, touching themselves and everything around them. These things make me crazy on any day of any year! A surgical RN can retire, but she's still ever vigilant!
iris lilies
3-12-20, 1:45pm
My understanding--from what I saw on the news last night--is that what is different about this virus is that it's highly contagious, so unless it's contained early (which we can't gauge without tests) it will result in overwhelming the one million hospital beds we have available in this country, putting people who need them for other conditions at increased risk and completely swamping medical personnel. We can be thankful that it's not more debilitating for most.
It will completely swamp medical facilities.
It is just amazing to me that people who should know better do not do better. The government will not save this situation. The lack of virus test kits is a huge problem, do not think I am downplaying that. But...
...human behavior will be what it is. Who is gonna make those with symptoms take a test? Why dont they stay home from non essential activities? Even with “test kits” we all know we spread virus before symptomatic, thats Spreading Disease 101.
This looks to me like pre-Katrina stuff. Everyone knows the storm is coming. Nanny Gubmnet recommends particular action, same with every hurricane. With Katrina it is Leave. With CVoid-19 it is Stay. This isnt complicated.
With every hurricane including Katrina the humans ignore common sense and Gubmnt directives and get themselves in a situation where emergency personnel have to act. And society is shocked because the government cannot address all emergency situations, people die.
No shit.
It will completely swamp medical facilities.
It is just amazing to me that people who should know better do not do better. The government will not save this situation.
Ayup :-(
In Katrina, transportation was unavailable for those who needed it.
In COVID-19, test kits are unavailable for those who need them.
Cue the inevitable consequences.
No, government can't solve all our problems, but at least it should be able to provide information and facilitate supply distribution.
(What the hell is with classifying pertinent information, anyway? The truth will out eventually.)
In Katrina, transportation was unavailable for those who needed it. No it wasn't, New Orleans was filled with school and metro buses which went unused. The problem was local government did not take action when it should have and we still haven't learned that a large federal government is not the answer to all our problems.
I think the testing business is a bit of a red herring at this point. The disease is now so widely spread that surveillance/contact tracing resources are overwhelmed.
The only treatment at this point is supportive care, and you’d get that, tested or not, if there were resources for it.
And self quarantine/ isolation - you should do that with a cold or flu anyways, right now.
Testing is handy for some things still, but it isn’t going to solve the problem. That train has left the station.
I think the testing business is a bit of a red herring at this point. The disease is now so widely spread that surveillance/contact tracing resources are overwhelmed.
The only treatment at this point is supportive care, and you’d get that, tested or not, if there were resources for it.
And self quarantine/ isolation - you should do that with a cold or flu anyways, right now.
Testing is handy for some things still, but it isn’t going to solve the problem. That train has left the station.
Exactly.
ApatheticNoMore
3-12-20, 2:33pm
Noone stays home with colds or flus :laff: It's been a pet peeve forever.
Maybe they will with corona if they happen to be one of the people lucky enough to have paid time off, maybe.
Noone stays home with colds or flus :laff: It's been a pet peeve forever.
Maybe they will with corona if they happen to be one of the people lucky enough to have paid time off, maybe.
Well, I know we, locally, finished the final draft legal reviews of the orders that would allow *real* quarantine of infected people early this week....
And I know tomorrow morning we will likely approve a state of emergency for the County.
I don't think at present we'd have the resources here to enforce a quarantine of more than a couple of people though. My vest isn't the right color to know the answer to that question, but I see a table of people over there who are working it...
dado potato
3-12-20, 5:35pm
Colorado is one of 4 states that have set up a drive-through site for coronavirus testing. Their first day for the site in Denver was 3/11. 160 people were tested. The hours are to be 10AM to 2PM daily. They expect to test more people per day in future.
The drive-through procedure minimizes exposure to other people. In Colorado, testing is free of charge, but it requires a photo ID and a doctor's note affirming that the patient meets criteria:
- showing symptoms of coronavirus, or
- has traveled recently in a high-risk area, or
- has been in close contact with someone who has tested positive.
People are asked to get their doctor's note by email or fax, rather than visit a doctor's office. Colorado specifies that results should be determined within 72 hours. Patients should quarantine voluntarily at home until they receive results by phone. Patients who test positive may receive an isolation order at the same time.
Similar drive-through testing has been set up in CT, WA, and CA.
I gather from a newswire photo that cars wait in line for their turn. I suppose if I had to wait, I would enjoy some American auto culture with the music of Chuck Berry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aZ6v679JtQ
Colorado is one of 4 states that have set up a drive-through site for coronavirus testing. Their first day for the site in Denver was 3/11. 160 people were tested. The hours are to be 10AM to 2PM daily. They expect to test more people per day in future.
Similar drive-through testing has been set up in CT, WA, and CA.
This is brilliant! I was so happy to hear this last week! Essentially no exposure to anyone as those healthcare workers are wearing necessary protective gear!
The Metopera has suspended production til month-end or longer and Broadway has shut down for those who may be interested. Ontario's public schools are closing for two weeks after the coming week-long March break.
Hard to believe that all the major three sports - NBA, NHL and baseball are taking a break as well. The fans in all forms of entertainment will be impacted.
The fans in all forms of entertainment will be impacted. As will those working at the event venues, at restaurants nearby, taxi/rideshare drivers taking people to and from these events,.... This is going to go deep if it goes for any significant length of time. Not to disregard the effects on those who get seriously ill or die, but even those who never knowingly get COVID-19 will see a negative impact from it.
I had to laugh when I read today that Uber is advising its people to work from home "if at all possible". I realize they're talking about their internal staff, not their drivers, but it still came out funny to me. You can drive me from your kitchen, and I'll pretend I'm going somewhere other than to work in my living room.
Broadway is selling seats to some premium shows for $50 through March. I'd be so tempted to go in if I had time, but that's probably stupid. But, man, sure is tempting. I'm wondering if the lights will go out on Broadway for a while. The owner of the house I'm renting works in the costume department of a musical on Broadway, and I'm wondering if he'll come and spend time in his beach house this spring due to lack of work.
Employees at work are concerned about quarantines because of loss of wages. The COO sent out an email if you or a family member has to be quarantined let HR know and things will be handled on a case by case basis. In other words if you are high ranking or politically connected you will get salary continuation or the option to work from home, if you are not you have to use up whatever sick or vacation time you have and then go without pay.
One of our localities had a drive up test facility where people could get tested for free with a referral from a doctor. The line wrapped around for blocks and the wait time was three to four hours until they finally were over loaded and shut down. Our state has had around 50 cases and most of them can be traced to foreign travel. A significant number have been in the high country ski areas that get a lot of international visitors. Aspen has several. Most public events have been shut down and I believe the Universities have closed classrooms and gone online. Only few of the primary or secondary schools are closed. All of that could change quickly.
I'm stocked up to stay home or in our open spaces for everything for at least a couple of weeks but I did have to visit my physician yesterday. They had a sign on the entrance door to call from your car for an escort if you had a cold, fever, or recent travel. No one inside was wearing a mask. Gas was $1.87/ gal at one place. In another year I'd be tempted to take a long driving and remote camping trip, but it's not possible this year. The Utah desert is generally warm and pretty this time of year.
All of the promised government financial reliefs and restrictions have been fine OK I guess, but it would be nice to have words from the president about expanding testing facilities and products, healthcare training, and preparing for hospital over loads, should they come.
I agree that the "testing will save us" ship has probably left the port already. I was talking on the phone today with a professional contact who lives in the suburbs just south of me. His wife had just gotten a call from her hair salon informing her that they had just learned that a client the day before she was there had just informed them that she had tested positive. My work acquaintance's wife obviously didn't interact with the person, and doesn't even have the same specific hair dresser, but the virus may well have been on surfaces in the salon.
Over time more and more of us will likely have stories like this that reach closer and closer to home.
I hate crowds. I think travel is an exercise in masochism. I’ve bought staples in bulk for years to save money. I don’t like spending money on concerts or sporting events. I quit my job. I plan shopping and movies for non-peak periods. Who knew those would have survival value?
You know the cliche "freedom isn't free"? Free countries could well pay more in money and lives responding than totalitarian regimes with streamlined, heavy-handed, top-down governments. I'd still rather live in a free country.
I thought Inslee's response was great when asked the penalties for violating guidelines. Not we will fine or incarcerate you, but think of the consequences to your grandpa.
Teacher Terry
3-12-20, 9:00pm
L, just because you don’t value travel doesn’t mean it’s not valuable for others.
Self-isolation, staying close to home, and having a few extra supplies on hand rates pretty low on my list of concerns. I self-entertain well with local wonders. If I were still in the work force or had children at home life could get complicated, but then again I'd be younger and a lower health risk. I really respect the people in the health care industry for putting things on the line to help out.
L, just because you don’t value travel doesn’t mean it’s not valuable for others.
Takes all kinds. Some people like to be spanked.
The gov just closed the schools in Michigan. New Mexico also closed.
Teacher Terry
3-12-20, 11:44pm
L, not even comparable!
Here's what's going on in IL/Chicago/Cook County
https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/state-officials-announce-event-ban-more-covid-19-cases/
Chicago public schools aren't closing down yet.
From Salt Lake City, because of virus concerns; The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - has discontinued all meetings and activities in the Church - worldwide, effective immediately. Interestingly, the focus of learning the last couple of years has been "Home centered, Church supported" meaning we study as families at home and Sunday's lessons reinforce what was studied at home.
The letter from Church leadership implied this could be for months, so we will continue to learn at home as families and via modern technology.
All of the promised government financial reliefs and restrictions have been fine OK I guess, but it would be nice to have words from the president about expanding testing facilities and products, healthcare training, and preparing for hospital over loads, should they come.
The time when a president would actually be helpful for a situation like this ended a little over 3 years ago. Since republicans freely, and gleefully, admit that they are incompetent at managing anything you should assume that you're on your own with regards to surviving this.
Takes all kinds. Some people like to be spanked.
How did this suddenly become a conversation about trump's sexual quirks?
The last few days at work are filled with hour by hour updates about our hospital’s emergency response if/when covid19 comes to us.
I always wondered whether I would escape or go to work in a pandemic - now I know. I go to work. I care not only for our patients but for our staff. I’m right where I belong and I’m cool with it all. It’s been an interesting week.
ToomuchStuff
3-13-20, 2:08am
As will those working at the event venues, at restaurants nearby, taxi/rideshare drivers taking people to and from these events,.... This is going to go deep if it goes for any significant length of time. Not to disregard the effects on those who get seriously ill or die, but even those who never knowingly get COVID-19 will see a negative impact from it.
I expect this will be in the billions of dollars, total impact. Some I expect will be recovered by timeshifting. But what would the effect, if these events weren't canceled, and we had Spanish flu style reactions/number of deaths?
One friend said today, that he understood they are trying to slow the spread, but he thought all the panic, reminded him of the War of the Worlds broadcast, that so many believed was actually happening.
happystuff
3-13-20, 7:51am
The impact is really starting to show in my area. And listening to the conversations is... interesting, to say the least. Some folks are panicking while others are "poo-poo'ing" the alarmists.
I am still going to work - small office-type company with less than 8 employees - but the shut-downs are starting to be everywhere. Events being canceled right and left. Supposed to go to a family "first birthday" party on Saturday and am just not sure. And still have a bit of the chest congestion from the illness that started in January and ran thru February. I think I would fall into the "dead" category if I caught this any time soon.
Sigh...
I hate crowds. [...] Who knew those would have survival value?
As I've seen introverts post on social media several times now, "I've been preparing for this my entire life!"
Informative article (with lots of math and charts) on how well social distancing can blunt the impact of COVID-19's spread and lethality: Coronavirus: Why You Must Act Now
(https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca)
We're prepared for a couple of weeks at home if need be. DW is home today, attending via teleconferencing a meeting that (earlier this week) was scheduled as a live gathering. We have no social plans for this weekend or next. I will be out sometime today (off-peak) to pick up a few items I'd like to have in the house if we cannot get out. And I've asked the rest of the board of our dancing club to think about cancelling dances. Our next one is three weeks away; no idea where we will be by then (medically speaking). Other dance groups in the state (even outstate where no cases of COVID-19 have been reported) already have cancelled their dances (scheduled closer than ours). It just seems prudent though I know a significant component of our dancers are not of a mind to worry about it (despite being in target demographics for infection/death).
We are living in "interesting" times....
L, not even comparable!
I’ll take a vicious whipping over getting dragged to Machu Picchu any time.
I hate crowds. I think travel is an exercise in masochism. I’ve bought staples in bulk for years to save money. I don’t like spending money on concerts or sporting events. I quit my job. I plan shopping and movies for non-peak periods. Who knew those would have survival value?
Every once in awhile, the stars align and LDAHL and I agree on an issue...
I'm in the "I've been preparing for this all my life" crowd.
On the other hand, I have friends who are planning a family trip to Maui, giddy about cheap fares. Yikes.
Yesterday I had to go to CVS to pick up a scrip, and afterwards I went into the supermarket next door to continue stocking up. Despite it being mid-morning on a weekday, the store was mobbed. Looks like people in my area (lower Fairfield County, Connecticut) are starting to take this seriously.
My company closed its offices Wednesday and I've been working from home since then. This is something I do only under duress--usually in very bad weather--largely because I don't really have a home office set up in my minimalist apartment. I need a couple of good size monitors to get a lot of my work done, and trying to do things on a tiny laptop screen is a real pain in the neck--literally, since I don't have a decent office chair. But the worst thing is the isolation. I don't really have enough to do, and I'm going buggy with boredom.
Office is supposed to reopen Monday after "deep cleaning," but the way things are unfolding I doubt it will reopen or that it would be wise to go in if they do.
Even with good luck (i.e., not getting sick) this is going to be a king-size drag.
Hubster's office is preparing for work-at-home. He is not excited. He has 2 24" monitors on his desk and uses them both constantly. Working security off a 10" laptop screen is not his idea of a good time:~)
Hubster's office is preparing for work-at-home. He is not excited. He has 2 24" monitors on his desk and uses them both constantly. Working security off a 10" laptop screen is not his idea of a good time:~)
Monitors are pretty cheap now, and Amazon delivers promptly. I'd bite the bullet.
Just checked. Two Acer monitors would run about $200--probably what you'd save in transportation and coffee stops.
Monitors are pretty cheap now, and Amazon delivers promptly. I'd bite the bullet.
Just checked. Two Acer monitors would run about $200--probably what you'd save in transportation and coffee stops.
It's his call. We don't do coffee shops and we're close to work so that's low cost. Maybe if it becomes reality he'll borrow one from his work desk-he will need the cabling as well.
Every once in awhile, the stars align and LDAHL and I agree on an issue...
I'm in the "I've been preparing for this all my life" crowd.
On the other hand, I have friends who are planning a family trip to Maui, giddy about cheap fares. Yikes.
I’m waiting for the CDC to recommend whiskey, butter brickle and orange beef, and they’ll be able to feature me in PSAs.
I suppose if you’re relatively young and healthy, you could go for cheap fares, etc, as a sort of risk arbitrage exercise.
It's his call. We don't do coffee shops and we're close to work so that's low cost. Maybe if it becomes reality he'll borrow one from his work desk-he will need the cabling as well.
Probably a tax write-off, as well. I'd go for it just to get the panorama at home.
You might just need a USB hub.
I’m waiting for the CDC to recommend whiskey, butter brickle and orange beef, and they’ll be able to feature me in PSAs.
I suppose if you’re relatively young and healthy, you could go for cheap fares, etc, as a sort of risk arbitrage exercise.
I laid in a two-year minimum supply of brandy, a 750 ml bottle. And a pint of Snoqualmie bourbon ice cream. Oh, the debauchery.
Probably a tax write-off, as well. I'd go for it just to get the panorama at home.
You might just need a USB hub.
He is IT security and he'll do what he needs to do. Not my arena.
Hubster's office is preparing for work-at-home. He is not excited. He has 2 24" monitors on his desk and uses them both constantly. Working security off a 10" laptop screen is not his idea of a good time:~)
I’d have the same problem. Work will let me take one home if we have to work from home for multiple days. It’s already been discussed n
ApatheticNoMore
3-13-20, 12:13pm
There is no means to work at home, it hasn't been discussed, and I'll be going to the office, well not if I'm sick is all. Nor will my partner be able to work from home. We both do office work pretty much, but there are no such provisions. So soldier on, is all there is.
iris lilies
3-13-20, 12:22pm
Yesterday I went to Walgreens to buy a thermometer. They were completely out. The only thermometer I have in my house has been up a bulldog butt so I don’t want that in my mouth! Haha. I went to CVS and they were down to two thermometers, one in a beat up box. But I bought it anyway. I don’t like it, it’s not acting consistently and I have to read directions to use it.
But the main issue in my life at the moment is community garden strife about canceling our annual brunch and meeting on Sunday. The usual self centered voices are expressing sadness and disappointment at the very thought! They are sad because they don’t get to do what they expected to do I guess, who knows. What a bunch of dingbats.
The physician in our group recommends we cancel and she said she will not attend. I am not attending. I already told garden leaders I won’t be there. I will make the coffee I committed to make but I’m delivering it to the Park house and then I’m leaving.
The physician in our group relayed a bit of information about St. Louis in the 1918 influenza epidemic. Here, we had good social isolation practices and as a result we had many fewer cases then they had in Philadelphia, a comparable size city.
I am thinking about my maternal grandparents in the 1918 flu epidemic. They were newly married and homesteading high in the Colorado western slope area. I suppose their isolation and resourcefulness kept them safe during those times. Not even sure that they knew what was going on as news for many rural folks was hard to come by back then. I think we have too much "news" now.
There is no means to work at home, it hasn't been discussed, and I'll be going to the office, well not if I'm sick is all. Nor will my partner be able to work from home. We both do office work pretty much, but there are no such provisions. So soldier on, is all there is.
Well, that stinks!
The huge Catholic Archdiocese of Chicago has closed all schools and cancelled all church services. I’m Orthodox, so we don’t fall under their oversight, but still interesting. One coworker will have to start working at home Monday due to his daughter’s public school closing indefinitely. Next town over from where I live. His wife can’t work from home and they have no local family. Everything he does can be done from home.
A bunch of coworkers went out at lunch in search of TP for at home and for the office.
I will be out sometime today (off-peak) to pick up a few items I'd like to have in the house if we cannot get out.
I went to my food co-op and a smaller supermarket near our home. I could not find disinfecting wipes in either store (didn't expect to find such a disposable at the co-op, though). So I bought more paper towels; we have bleach in the house and can dilute it in a spray bottle. I hate the smell of bleach, but it will have to do. The places I went to had toilet paper and water in stock, though there were significant dents in the stocking level for both, even at non-sale prices. Customers seemed to be maintaining some distance from each other -- though I purposely picked places that kind of enforce it.
Now to hole up for a little while.
I'm hoping increased employees working from home will serve to make the practice more widespread. Also--without much help from an ineffective government--people are getting up to speed on how to handle community health emergencies. Trying to look at the brighter side of this.
iris lilies
3-13-20, 1:33pm
About holing up : fortunately, it is easy for our household.
I expect my gardens will be in tip top shape, my house will be clean, my digital files organized, and all flower show planning for fall 2020 and 2021 will be done by June 1. Are use this downtime to get ahead. It’s like an extension for me of January and February which are already down time months anyway.
I am so sorry for those of you who planned a big trip. I am grateful that I didn’t jump on my urge to book a tour in Europe for August.
This just in---a friend just told me he was going in to a local sporting goods store and there was a LINE of people buying guns. Ugh. What fear is driving this?? (Nobody's gonna take my TP from me, man!)
dado potato
3-13-20, 4:58pm
there was a LINE of people buying guns. Ugh. What fear is driving this??
Gun shop owners are quoted to the effect that there has been a large uptick in sales to Asian Americans … http://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article241164136.html
Made our last grocery run for a while this morning. Trader Joe's was packed and out of all frozen vegetables, rice, beans and toilet paper. The Costco next door had a line of cars out to the street so we skipped that. Hit another grocery and they were fairly well stocked and not crowded. Feeling very fortunate to have that task out of the way for a while. So weird to see people with masks on though.
I have not changed my behavior for coronavirus in terms of shopping. We are returning to VT today. I don't expect crazy long lines in our little stores. DH and I typically are the type that say, "Why is there no milk and bread in the store? Oh, yeah, we're supposedly getting a blizzard." Maybe I'm stupid, but you guys know me by now--I do not have a very large "security gland" as Dave Ramsey calls it. My operating principle is "I'll get by."
sweetana3
3-14-20, 11:36am
Two people from here are on their honeymoon in Hawaii and tested positive for the virus. So now they are being moved to an appropriate location and have to stay for at least 14 more days. They are now in contact with everyone they had at the wedding, etc. for contact tracing. They thought they just had the flu.
iris lilies
3-14-20, 12:03pm
3136
Many of you have seen this chart, but I’m putting it up because I think it is a great visual story of where we as a country could be.Red hump =bad, blue hump =manageable..
Those who continue on as usual , not tamping down their social movement, will push us into the red hump.
This is a time for individual responsibility to lead the way, and every citizen needs to act in a responsible way. I don’t need Trump, Nanny Gubmnt at local or wide level, or the CDC to tell me to wash my hands and avoid any nonessential social interaction. It is amazing to me that people are not understanding “nonessential. “
This morning our community garden meeting was canceled, after much discussion and whining.My notoriously self-centered neighbor who I’ve known for decades and who always makes a decision from the center of his selfishness is so very sad. Awwwwwww, he has to make a tiny sacrifice in his life!
Each of us has to figure out what is essential versus frivolous travel within our communities. I know that many people have an essential role to play in our society that requires they be out and about. That is not me.I hope those who do not have essential roles will not be swayed by their feelings, but will instead make thoughtful fact based decisions about moving through society for the next few weeks.
I'm taken aback by those who are just now figuring out that they might have to lay in some supplies. I started gathering wipes, alcohol, gloves, etc. a month ago--I have a pretty active "security gland," I guess. My Kindle is fairly bursting and I have plenty of food. And coffee.
ApatheticNoMore
3-14-20, 12:29pm
The chart is maybe all we are going do and it will make things better but it's already going to be really bad probably. Because the things government should do have been derailed by bad public policy (mostly the Trump admin), they can't prevent spread, they can't quarantine because no testing etc. etc., they can't even test people getting off the cruise ships that had corona - literally, there are just letting them out into the community corona or not (not that there isn't corona in the community but that's just increasing the spread). Government plus individual action (not one or the other) could have prevented the most death, but government led by the Trump administration failed, so all we may have is individual action and it won't be as successful as both.
From what I can tell--contrary to Trump's pronouncements--there are still few tests available. Health care workers are still begging for them. This is (literally) sickening. If we don't understand where the threat is greatest, and who is already affected, we're trying to respond blindly.
Teacher Terry
3-14-20, 12:55pm
Part of the problem is deciding when to self quarantine depending on how bad it is where you live. No one wants to stay home for months.
From what I can tell--contrary to Trump's pronouncements--there are still few tests available. Health care workers are still begging for them. This is (literally) sickening. If we don't understand where the threat is greatest, and who is already affected, we're trying to respond blindly.
He is the ultimate denier >:( I guess by building up supplies in Jan and Feb it would have brought Covid-19 to shore. See how his prevention strategy worked for us?
ApatheticNoMore
3-14-20, 12:56pm
The governor of CA just this week said they were sent tests without all the necessary parts. Do I believe him? Well I don't think anyone was excited about that governor election and only reluctantly voted if they did, but yes I do. And the Trump administration? I don't believe at all.
I got my state auto inspection a month early in case that is impacted. I also checked a couple dozen books out of the library.
ToomuchStuff
3-14-20, 12:59pm
This just in---a friend just told me he was going in to a local sporting goods store and there was a LINE of people buying guns. Ugh. What fear is driving this?? (Nobody's gonna take my TP from me, man!)
I would venture it isn't just one, but several.
Fear that panic is going to become more widespread, and people are going to start getting lawless (looting etc. like the Rodney King riots where you had to defend your store/property/life).
Tax refund time, where a lot of paycheck to paycheck buyers, typically buy (then sell months later when in a financial hardship).
Fear about the Democrats all saying they are going to take your guns/ammo.
Some stores getting out of selling guns, and people go looking for sales, closeouts etc. (like they did when Walmart stopped carrying ammo)
AKA the usual suspects.
dado potato
3-14-20, 12:59pm
literally, there are just letting them out into the community corona or not (not that there isn't corona in the community but that's just increasing the spread).
I don't know about US residents from other states, but the 14 cruise ship passengers that are residents of Wisconsin are being picked up and driven home by members of the WI National Guard. Governor Evers said the Guard will be driving state-owned vehicles, unarmed. All Guard members assigned to this mission are volunteers.
None of the passengers tested positive, all are asymptomatic. When they arrive in Wisconsin, they will be greeted by Department of Health Services personnel, then transported to their homes for a 14-day home quarantine.
This is a time for individual responsibility to lead the way, and every citizen needs to act in a responsible way. I don’t need Trump, Nanny Gubmnt at local or wide level, or the CDC to tell me to wash my hands and avoid any nonessential social interaction. It is amazing to me that people are not understanding “nonessential. “
Weren't you the person who posted about that family in which the quarantined husband and daughter escaped to a father-daughter dance and the wife went shopping (or something like that)?
I agree that it is time for individual responsibility to lead the way. But responsibility to the collective is not ingrained in the American psyche and it's probably been a couple of generations since most people even have had to flex that muscle. If it requires a governor or an agency, the job of which is to safeguard the country, to spell out specifically behaviors that people either cannot or will not observe for themselves, then so be it. What's the old saying about someone's rights ending where someone else's nose begins?
I don't believe bureaucracy is the natural state of things. Why should grocery stores have to limit purchases of hand sanitizer well beyond what any human could use in the space of a few weeks? Can't people regulate that for themselves? Why do not people recognize that they can infect others with COVID-19 even if they personally are not experiencing symptoms? It seems to go beyond giving people the facts. Bureaucracy forms because people either fail to use good sense or feel any sense of fairness is appropriate. Unfortunate, but there it is. jmho
iris lilies
3-14-20, 3:40pm
Weren't you the person who posted about that family in which the quarantined husband and daughter escaped to a father-daughter dance and the wife went shopping (or something like that)?
I agree that it is time for individual responsibility to lead the way. But responsibility to the collective is not ingrained in the American psyche and it's probably been a couple of generations since most people even have had to flex that muscle. If it requires a governor or an agency, the job of which is to safeguard the country, to spell out specifically behaviors that people either cannot or will not observe for themselves, then so be it. What's the old saying about someone's rights ending where someone else's nose begins?
I don't believe bureaucracy is the natural state of things. Why should grocery stores have to limit purchases of hand sanitizer well beyond what any human could use in the space of a few weeks? Can't people regulate that for themselves? Why do not people recognize that they can infect others with COVID-19 even if they personally are not experiencing symptoms? It seems to go beyond giving people the facts. Bureaucracy forms because people either fail to use good sense or feel any sense of fairness is appropriate. Unfortunate, but there it is. jmho
Yes I posted about the St. Louis man whose daughter came back from Italy, got tested for coronavirus, told to stay in, but he and other daughter and wife what about their usual business In attending a father daughter dance at a tony private school.
Here’s what’s fun about that guy: he is the perfect lightening rod for distain. He is a middle aged educated well-off white man from Ladue who is an executive at Monsanto.
Can we all see the trigger words for Identity politics? I highlighted them in case some could not. I am happy that the heat went toward him and we didn’t have to play race politics as is the usual thing in St. Louis. We are not supposed to participate in public shaming until, of course, we find the right story.Personally, I don’t see how a little pubic shaming hurts if it illustrates desirable behavior.
Steve, I absolutely agree that any attempt to ration products on the shelves in the grocery store is ridiculous. I am actually happy that people are running around today to the grocery store and the drugstore getting appropriate supplies. A friend stopped by to visit this morning and he said our grocery store has no bread no chicken on the shelves. I went to a nearby grocery store later that had everything on the shelves, so supplies depend on the store.
And I do think the government —of course!—should be suggesting appropriate behavior because so many people look to nanny G to do that. It is fine, but it is also sad.
But then I have to think about my own situation which is very very simple. I sit at home and peruse the Internet. So many people came to a realization just yesterday, people in my immediate circle, that hey this is a serious deal and We need to step up to take action. I’m glad they are getting there but they were working at their jobs taking care of their children you know living a more complicated life than I live, so the full impact of this Didnt hit them earlier.
I think most people are doing the best they can in a really disorienting situation. We were just at the grocery and all the milk was gone, in our largest grocery in town. All the toilet paper was gone yesterday and today in three stores. There were limits on items that were no longer available, anyway. All the flour was gone. So people are trying their best to think of how to feed their families for a month if all the stores close as quickly and unexpectedly as the schools and the library and my husband's doctor did.
A lot of these survival skills have been forgotten, or no longer taught, like do I buy canned milk so that I can bake? etc.
As to ammo, I'm not prepared to shoot someone over my supplies so I'm not going there. But I know my neighbors have guns and would use them on someone who came to take their supplies. They are mostly ex-military and have a "don't mess with me" attitude. To each his own.
As to people who got sick unexpectedly with a disease they had never heard of--well my heart goes out to them. What a terrible thing, and I wish we would minimize some of the inevitable scapegoating that is starting to happen. The first case in Maine was id'ed as a middle aged woman who had recently traveled abroad. Class privilege etc. comes to mind. Turns out she was a Navy reservist on Navy manuevers.
I say we stop blaming them and work on keeping as many folks safe as possible and try to remember that they are doing the best they can, even if it in hindsight is clear to us that they did something that they should not have.
And calling people stupid because they want to buy toilet paper--well, I'd rather stop judging and try to keep a helpful, positive mindset.
ApatheticNoMore
3-14-20, 4:23pm
But are the stores actually closed anywhere in the world? My understanding it is one of the few things open when they shut down Italy: grocery stores.
It smells of panic, it's true one could be home sick for awhile and not leave the house.
If one plans to hide out for a several months and not grocery shop and is stocking up NOW, it strikes me as counterproductive, as the virus is out there already, and the stores being so extra crowded is probably not going to help anything (I'm not saying don't eat, just it's crowds, it's a risk). And at this point it's the hoarding of toilet paper that is going to lead to people not being able to get toilet paper, though yes I expect that situation to resolve and more TP to be on the way eventually.
They are not closed here, but I think the feeling is that things are being closed unexpectedly and without notice, and people want a few weeks to a month of food.
That is what I think is happening, anyway.
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