View Full Version : Conavirus......
iris lilies
3-14-20, 4:40pm
But are the stores actually closed anywhere in the world? My understanding it is one of the few things open when they shut down Italy: grocery stores.
It smells of panic, it's true one could be home sick for awhile and not leave the house.
If one plans to hide out for a several months and not grocery shop and is stocking up NOW, it strikes me as counterproductive, as the virus is out there already, and the stores being so extra crowded is probably not going to help anything (I'm not saying don't eat, just it's crowds, it's a risk). And at this point it's the hoarding of toilet paper that is going to lead to people not being able to get toilet paper, though yes I expect that situation to resolve and more TP to be on the way eventually.
I agree that it “smells of panic” but I do not think it actually IS panic. The store rushing activity is probably a little overkill. But we don’t really know and that’s OK.
Weren't you the person who posted about that family in which the quarantined husband and daughter escaped to a father-daughter dance and the wife went shopping (or something like that)?
I agree that it is time for individual responsibility to lead the way. But responsibility to the collective is not ingrained in the American psyche and it's probably been a couple of generations since most people even have had to flex that muscle. If it requires a governor or an agency, the job of which is to safeguard the country, to spell out specifically behaviors that people either cannot or will not observe for themselves, then so be it. What's the old saying about someone's rights ending where someone else's nose begins?
I don't believe bureaucracy is the natural state of things. Why should grocery stores have to limit purchases of hand sanitizer well beyond what any human could use in the space of a few weeks? Can't people regulate that for themselves? Why do not people recognize that they can infect others with COVID-19 even if they personally are not experiencing symptoms? It seems to go beyond giving people the facts. Bureaucracy forms because people either fail to use good sense or feel any sense of fairness is appropriate. Unfortunate, but there it is. jmho
Good post Steve.
I agree with Steve. My son texted us saying that on his shopping trip today he took the last two quarts of milk. When he stepped away for a moment he caught a woman talking the milk out of his cart. He then passed a women who had taken every last box of pasta. This is the mentality that freaks me out.
Where were these people a month ago, when we first started hearing about the virus and its spread? They could just drop casually into any store and grab a modest amount of non-perishables without difficulty then. And don't people keep a reasonable amount of say, rice and beans, around--just in case?
iris lilies
3-14-20, 6:12pm
Where were these people a month ago, when we first started hearing about the virus and its spread? They could just drop casually into any store and grab a modest amount of non-perishables without difficulty then. And don't people keep a reasonable amount of say, rice and beans, around--just in case? We grow our own beans. I had been consciously using them up over the past six months because I didn’t want to move them all to Hermann along with all the other food stuff that we will inevitably have to move.However we don’t grow our own rice —yet. In our 1 acre farmette there is no water puddle big enough to act as a paddy, but knowing DH he figure out how to grow a little rice ha ha.
I think the only clear thing right now is that none of us know how this will unfold. I must admit I am having some hopefully irrational fears that I might not see my kids and grandkids for a long time. Life plans deferred...but today I planted seedlings for the window sill in hope that spring will normalize some. If you haven't read it yet, check out Maureed Dowd's column in the NY Times - Plagued by the President.
I've been buying extras for a few weeks, and I'm probably out to a month's supply of most everything. In order to keep that month buffer I'll probably have to brave the vampires for more shopping in a couple of weeks. All of my store's shelves have been thin on stock of staples, but I've not seen any totally empty except for hand sanitizer.
I must admit I am having some hopefully irrational fears that I might not see my kids and grandkids for a long time. Life plans deferred..
I am sorry you are going through this. I am, too, along with fact that my parents are in nursing home and no visitors are allowed in, no one, so I may not be able to see them again.
It is a horrible feeling.
I see a lot of places are emphasizing take out, delivery, and pick up. A local pizza chain stresses that when you pay up front, your pizza will be delivered to your porch and left there, that the tip will be included in the tab, and that the driver will wash their hands before and after delivery. An introvert's dream. I imagine grocery pickup will be more widely offered, as well. Two out of three of the stores I frequent here offer it.
The irony to me is that going to crowded places with lots of people is a bad idea. So what are all these people doing? Going to buy food and toilet paper at crowded places with lots of people.
I’m not particularly surprised by this though. Look at all the panic shopping people do every time a snowstorm is predicted, even though the likelihood of being homebound from a snowstorm for more than 48 hours is pretty unlikely unless one lives in the far boonies.
Steve, I absolutely agree that any attempt to ration products on the shelves in the grocery store is ridiculous. I am actually happy that people are running around today to the grocery store and the drugstore getting appropriate supplies. A friend stopped by to visit this morning and he said our grocery store has no bread no chicken on the shelves. I went to a nearby grocery store later that had everything on the shelves, so supplies depend on the store.
I actually agree with stores limiting the purchase of products at some reasonable quantity. They do it for "doorbusters" on Black Fridays. During regular sales, they make you buy one item at its regular price before you get the next one half-off. (Want four items? Fine, but two are regular price.) Stores can establish the terms under which customers do business with them.
So stores can limit the quantity of high-demand items purchased, letting more customers have a chance to buy them. I wish stores didn't have to limit product purchases, but apparently there are enough people out there whose better natures do not tend toward fairness that the rules get imposed (the stores also have a self-interest in keeping more customers happy, too). That's their bureaucracy.
The irony to me is that going to crowded places with lots of people is a bad idea. So what are all these people doing? Going to buy food and toilet paper at crowded places with lots of people.
DW has been involved in administering her county's plan for pandemics in her department. Among the very first rules is to not rush to the local big-box store or supermarket since so many other people will be there buying stuff, increasing their exposure to the very illness everyone is trying to avoid.
When I picked up my items on Friday, I purposely went at off-hours and avoided bigger stores, partly to improve social distance and partly because news and social-media posts documented the runs on lots of food items (and the long lines of people and carts right up next to each other). I had no problem moving around the stores and getting almost all I wanted. If I get stir-crazy in the house over the next few days, though, I can think of a couple of stores near here that might still have some. It would be an interesting bet to place (since I don't have to win it).
I would rather purchase limits than price gouging. My supermarket has kept some water in stock by increasing the price 50%.
iris lilies
3-14-20, 11:53pm
Can someone here give me insight as to why people are buying tons of bottled water?
ApatheticNoMore
3-15-20, 1:56am
There isn't a lot of reason to think tap water won't work. However maybe some just got to thinking about emergencies in general and were like "I don't have water for an earthquake! AHHH!". Even though an earthquake (hurricane, tornado) in most places is not the present crisis.
I admit I did a little panic buying Friday (and before then stocked up for a few weeks prior, but more panic on Friday - succumbing to it - empty shelves messes with one's head). I went to less crowded places including the most expensive grocery in town, but honestly since panic set in there are no "off hours" if you work. Friday late at night used to be one but it's all anyone wants to do anymore is grocery shop :~) (of course it's all one is allowed to do pretty much). Even though the virus might last awhile, I don't think the panic shopping will continue that much longer though unless it becomes completely self-reinforcing.
Now if I was just shopping for me, going forward I wouldn't shop more than once a week, to limit being out and about. But I said I'd shop for my mom so it may end up being be more (well my risk is less than hers).
flowerseverywhere
3-15-20, 3:04am
Last week a national quilter held two lectures in Ocala, Fl. An acquaintance who went said the SRO crowd of 500+ women were jammed in each day. She laughed telling me how funny the lecturer was, saying not to spit on or lick anybody. Ha ha. She accused several of us as being alarmists and repeating “fake news” because it’s just the flu.
A neighbor went to church where only about 400 of the usual 1200 people attended the 4pm Saturday service. She said the church must be losing so much money. Seriously that is what worries you.
Since China quarantined Hunan I did not understand why people didn’t realize what was coming. Disease does not respect race, political party, religion etc. it spreads and runs its course. We have too much air travel to contain it.
Here in Florida I fear the worst. Many who watch Fox News all day who dismissed any idea this could be a problem because it was a hoax to take Trump down. A state where floating Petri dish cruise ships dock in multiple ports and disembark , theme parks are packed with many thousands daily, and lots of old people with medical issues.
IL, some of us have nasty tasting tap water, or unsafe water. Think Flint, Michigan.
Hay House is offering a free viewing of the docuseries Radical Remission; I just got an email inviting me to watch it. There is a trailer here and a place to sign up, if anyone is interested:
https://www.discover.hayhouse.com/radicalremission/
I think I am going to check it out!
happystuff
3-15-20, 8:47am
I think most people are doing the best they can in a really disorienting situation. We were just at the grocery and all the milk was gone, in our largest grocery in town. All the toilet paper was gone yesterday and today in three stores. There were limits on items that were no longer available, anyway. All the flour was gone. So people are trying their best to think of how to feed their families for a month if all the stores close as quickly and unexpectedly as the schools and the library and my husband's doctor did.
A lot of these survival skills have been forgotten, or no longer taught, like do I buy canned milk so that I can bake? etc.
As to ammo, I'm not prepared to shoot someone over my supplies so I'm not going there. But I know my neighbors have guns and would use them on someone who came to take their supplies. They are mostly ex-military and have a "don't mess with me" attitude. To each his own.
As to people who got sick unexpectedly with a disease they had never heard of--well my heart goes out to them. What a terrible thing, and I wish we would minimize some of the inevitable scapegoating that is starting to happen. The first case in Maine was id'ed as a middle aged woman who had recently traveled abroad. Class privilege etc. comes to mind. Turns out she was a Navy reservist on Navy manuevers.
I say we stop blaming them and work on keeping as many folks safe as possible and try to remember that they are doing the best they can, even if it in hindsight is clear to us that they did something that they should not have.
And calling people stupid because they want to buy toilet paper--well, I'd rather stop judging and try to keep a helpful, positive mindset.
:+1:
happystuff
3-15-20, 8:53am
The irony to me is that going to crowded places with lots of people is a bad idea. So what are all these people doing? Going to buy food and toilet paper at crowded places with lots of people.
This has been my thought for the last 2-3 weeks.
Our governor announced that virtually all the major ski resorts would be shut down for at least a week. Best I can tell from the news, the hotels and other amenities that are still open would be ok, but all the ski lift operations would shut down. It's near the end of the season for many anyway, but others often stay open for as long as there is snow.
I picked up tax returns from my CPA a couple of days ago and before I knew it I was shaking the guy's hand. It's a hard habit to break.
I don't suppose I should be surprised, but in my brief forays outside during the past two days, I'm still seeing people engaged in unessential activities like eating in restaurants, attending a yoga class or getting a haircut. In one case, I walked by a kitchen cabinets store near my house and saw people inside talking to a salesman. You can't wait to install your new kitchen counters?
I absolutely get it that people want to get out of the house and do something that feels normal. I also get it that there are people whose jobs require them to be in contact with others. I'm especially sympathetic to supermarket cashiers, whose job requires them to have close contact with hundreds of people, but whose role may turn out to be as important as police or firefighters before this is all over.
On other other hand, if I were a movie theater usher, I sure wouldn't be showing up for work. It's one thing when your job involves selling people food. It's quite another be asked to risk your health and the health of those around you so someone can see Frozen 2.
It may be that movie theaters around here have closed already, I'm not sure. Most public spaces--schools, libraries, churches and gyms--have closed down within the past 2-3 days.
One thing I've been wondering about--every time I see pictures of people in groups (just now was looking at scenes from mobbed airports) half the people are wearing face masks--where the heck are they getting them? By early this past week, any kind of prophylactic or disinfectant item, such as face masks, gloves and or course hand sanitizer, had been completely stripped from the shelves. For anyone around here to have masks, they would have had to be incredibly prescient or have some kind of connection.
Teacher Terry
3-15-20, 11:25am
Luckily I go to a one person shop to have my hair cut and colored. Although, his wife works in a nursing home. I am not getting my eyebrows waxed because I don’t want anyone that close to my face. Our ski resorts shut down and usually they are open as long as possible. If we go out to eat we are going at odd times so no people. We will totally stay home once we need to but don’t want to start to early. A good friend of mine is 74 with 6 serious health conditions and she hasn’t changed anything and goes out daily. She has been in the hospital many times in the past 3 years and then her Yorkies have to move in with us. We have decreased going out to twice a week not counting going to friends homes.
ApatheticNoMore
3-15-20, 11:40am
Haircuts unessential? For some women depending on hair style sure, I don't need to get a haircut. For men, yea I don't think so (unless they are bald :)). It's about looking presentable for work etc..
Ushers don't just suddenly quit their jobs? Well they will probably be out of a job soon enough, maybe they are just trying to earn money while the sun still shines, before it all tanks. Being homeless is probably not too good for one's corona survival rates either afterall. Just sit around and collect unemployment? Haha, one would only say that if they have literally never collected it. That's a fraction of anyone's income (I'm not sure to what degree it depends on your current income, but it's about 30% of one's GROSS income). That's almost never enough to live off.
The movie theatres in our town went to a 50% (the multiplex) and 40% (the standalone) seating capacity, meaning if the theatre seats 500, they will only let 250 in.
SteveinMN
3-15-20, 12:22pm
I'm still seeing people engaged in unessential activities like eating in restaurants, attending a yoga class or getting a haircut. In one case, I walked by a kitchen cabinets store near my house and saw people inside talking to a salesman. You can't wait to install your new kitchen counters?
This week I have scheduled 1) a home visit with an elderly friend and her husband with an organization that is helping them move to assisted living next month; 2) a physical therapy appointment (the first after two weeks); 3) a standing lunch gathering with a few former co-workers; and 4) the very last session of a volunteer gig I've worked at the food bank (along with a team of about half a dozen) for more than eight years (the task is moving to facility many miles away).
The home visit is, in my mind, low-risk. I suppose I could phone in but it wouldn't be quite as helpful (the reason I'm there at all). I will sit several feet away from the other participants and try not to touch anything.
I will ask the therapist on Monday if I can postpone that appointment but, really, things aren't going to be better in another week or two, including the reason for the PT in the first place. The clinic is separate from the general-practice clinic in the building. It should be an easy in-and-out with only a little more hand washing involved.
Lunch likely will be cancelled with so many of the co-workers logging in from home. That's sorted.
The volunteer session? The food bank expects a serious increase in demand from people no longer getting the paychecks they need to live on. Everything we touch is wrapped and we don't handle it for long. We're all old and retired and I believe any one of us not feeling well will cancel. I think we can manage maintaining a reasonable distance from each other as we work. Personally, I would hate to miss this session -- this is one of the best teams I've ever worked with and, after this, we're done. :(
I believe social distancing is going to be in place for another couple of months. At some point in that time, I will need to go to the grocery store to replenish. Something in the house may require a trip to the hardware store. I'm about two-three weeks away from my monthly haircut (I like my hair short and it grows pretty fast). I do not expect to hear an "all clear" on social distancing in two or three weeks. So maybe it makes sense to get my hair cut this week so I don't need another haircut for another month, when the number of COVID-19 cases is likely to be exponentially higher than it is now.
The couple in the kitchen cabinet store may need to select cabinets because the house is scheduled to be finished and closed upon in another month and they have to decide now. Go to the movies? Attend March Madness? Maybe entertainment options are more "unnecessary". But, without context, it's hard to determine what people consider necessary, especially when we're talking about a period of several weeks. Self-care takes many forms and, right now, with an uncertain pandemic and an uncertain financial environment, self-care remains important.
I will note that the amount of traffic on our street has declined a lot in the last week. I think the number of passenger cars almost matches the number of delivery trucks now. :) People in this neighborhood seem to be getting it.
One thing I've been wondering about--every time I see pictures of people in groups (just now was looking at scenes from mobbed airports) half the people are wearing face masks--where the heck are they getting them?
A friend of mine who lives on a rural hobby farm in the south has routinely bought N95 masks by the dozens. He's hitting his stash now for himself and his family. He's far more of a prepper than most people but he does use the masks for farm chores and the like. I don't doubt there are bunches in circulation. In fact, having worked at a company that makes such masks, I probably have some still sitting in our basement. It's not like they go bad.
The movie theatres in our town went to a 50% (the multiplex) and 40% (the standalone) seating capacity, meaning if the theatre seats 500, they will only let 250 in.
I'm not sure about your geographical location. Here in a hot zone, allowing 250 people into the same space unnecessarily would be irresponsible.
Given that it looks like the feds have complete effed up an aggressive testing regime, social distancing will be the most effective means of "flattening" the curve of spread. Places that aren't already hot zones likely soon will be, and should start implementing these policies NOW.
I just returned from a brief walk around the neighborhood. A 7th-Day Adventist church nearby was holding services (though the parking lot was far from full). Another, smaller group (some kind of Christian sect of what appear to be Haitians or Dominicans, I've never been quite sure) that has taken over a dead Methodist church was also holding services.
I was very surprised to see this. I'm sure these are good Christian folks and not kooks, but this is just irresponsible, and I hope the church elders start to exercise some common sense.
I don't suppose I should be surprised, but in my brief forays outside during the past two days, I'm still seeing people engaged in unessential activities like eating in restaurants, attending a yoga class or getting a haircut. In one case, I walked by a kitchen cabinets store near my house and saw people inside talking to a salesman. You can't wait to install your new kitchen counters?....
I suspect there are still significant numbers of people who fall into the "no different than the common flu" category and consider many of the precautions a media fueled panic. Plus younger people probably don't see the risk.
I have a nearly full box of N95 masks purchased a some time ago for belt sanding some house siding and for allergies doing some sorts of yard work. I haven't decided if there would be any occasion where I might wear them.
There are a lot of occupations that are not in the service industry or people unable to work at home where work goes on in some sort of normal fashion.
Lots of people think it’s nothing. Vegas is a hotbed for that sort of thought.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/hotels/2020/03/14/coronavirus-las-vegas-tourists-partying/5050573002/
I suspect there are still significant numbers of people who fall into the "no different than the common flu" category and consider many of the precautions a media fueled panic.
That's DH. He thinks this is hubbub caused by CNN. I tell him, what about China, Iran, Italy?? Are they swayed by CNN?
Meanwhile, he's over 65, overweight, a smoker, with underlying health issues. The kids were SOOOO excited to see us out of Jersey and landed on our relatively deserted island.
And now everyone returning from Europe was forced to wait hours jammed together at the airports to be ‘health screened’. I wonder how many infections that will cause.
And now everyone returning from Europe was forced to wait hours jammed together at the airports to be ‘health screened’. I wonder how many infections that will cause.
RIght? Makes sooooo much sense!
iris lilies
3-15-20, 10:29pm
Our neighborhood grocery store is doing something cool: They are limiting their shopping hours of 7 AM to 8 AM to those who are 60 and over.
Teacher Terry
3-15-20, 10:34pm
That’s good IL. People here have gotten in fights and knocked down a pregnant woman over TP. They now are letting in only a few people at a time.
ApatheticNoMore
3-16-20, 1:44am
Stores here are just cutting back hours. >8) How is this helping? It just means more people in the store at once. Plus make off hours shopping even more impossible for anyone with a job than before.
Supposedly some of this time is needed for restocking, this last minute hoarding beyond a few weeks supplies is maybe not helping things (though yes if you are sick stay home, don't go to the store :))
Stores here are just cutting back hours. >8) How is this helping?
When my local stores restock, there are boxes and carts in most of the aisles, making it more difficult to get around. If the store is (nearly) full with shoppers, narrowing aisles doesn't help shoppers or stockers. I've also seen the statement that closing gives staff time to clean the store more deeply.
I feel for people who cannot shop during typical open hours. When I first moved to the Twin Cities 35 years ago, any supermarket big enough to be part of a chain was open around the clock. Since then, most of them have pulled back on hours so that even before COVID-19 there were few supermarkets beyond Walmart that were open 7x24. The reason most stores give is that there are not enough customers at atypical hours to compensate for keeping staff on hand and keeping the lights on; some also have difficulty finding people who want to work at those hours.
I am hopeful that people are running out of money to panic-buy and that the crowds subside. The panic is not helping anyone's state of mind.
I went grocery shopping today to help out the wife. She is watching the grandkids, 4&6. I went to Publix first, no crowds, and plenty on the shelves. I then went to Aldi’s to see what things looked like there. No crowds and pretty much everything except paper products. And the prices were Half that what I paid at Publix. We have been letting our stockpiles go down since we are planning on moving soon, but we now have enough for quite a while.
ApatheticNoMore
3-16-20, 11:38am
Long lines around the block for Trader Joe today. I did no go to Trader Joe today, I just saw them driving by.
Friends just got a notice that San Francisco will be in lockdown starting Wednesday at midnight. All non-essential businesses will be closed; only trips to pharmacies, groceries, and other necessary venues will be allowed. https://www.sfexaminer.com/
dado potato
3-16-20, 7:16pm
San Francisco will be in lockdown. https://www.sfexaminer.com/
"... ordering cessation of all non-essential travel" for three weeks. I detect a travel ban in the 5 counties around the San Francisco Bay. The Chief of Police says a violation of the order is a misdemeanor, and he would rely on voluntary compliance.
I feel that a travel ban on Americans is a "Defining Moment" in more ways than one.
Friends just got a notice that San Francisco will be in lockdown starting Wednesday at midnight. All non-essential businesses will be closed; only trips to pharmacies, groceries, and other necessary venues will be allowed. https://www.sfexaminer.com/
I wonder where they draw lines? Landscaping services, breweries, florists, construction companies? They are pretty much non-essential.
ApatheticNoMore
3-16-20, 7:48pm
The Fed gov. is in hopeless paralysis, useless, arguing about dumb stuff, I kind of wish most of them would just get corona virus.
States and some cities are acting and just outlawing everything, I'm glad they are acting at least with regards to the social distancing etc.. They are really coming through in these times. Because the Fed gov has all but abdicated and left it entirely to the states if anything is going to be done.
dado potato
3-16-20, 7:54pm
A man told me his brother's ashes were going to be interred at Arlington Cemetery. Would it be essential to go there?
Today's conservatives want to make the federal government so small they can "drown it in a bathtub" (see Grover Norquist), so they purposely starve it and administer it so heartlessly and ham-handedly that citizens will turn to their states to do what they can. I have a vision of red Ambu-bags with MAGA on them--do-it-youself ventilators.
Today's conservatives want to make the federal government so small they can "drown it in a bathtub" (see Grover Norquist), so they purposely starve it and administer it so heartlessly and ham-handedly that citizens will turn to their states to do what they can.That's how it was designed.
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
San Francisco area goes on lockdown at Midnight!
Got an email from my gym (LA Fitness) that all locations are closing, effective today, until at least 4/1.
Simplemind
3-16-20, 9:12pm
Our dentist has canceled all appointments. I believe our eye appointments will be canceled by tomorrow because those waiting rooms are huge. The gym closed as of tonight. DH made one last Costco trip and said it was insane but at least they were limiting items. He was only able to get about half of what he was looking for. We just ran out to Safeway to store up on the fresh stuff. We should be able to go about a month.
I wonder where they draw lines? Landscaping services, breweries, florists, construction companies? They are pretty much non-essential.
Boston's mayor ordered all construction stopped.
iris lilies
3-16-20, 9:48pm
Ever clear in place of rubbing alcohol.
you heard it from me!
Ever clear in place of rubbing alcohol.
you heard it from me!
What is the alcohol percent in everclear? I ask that because it may actually need to be watered down to be most effective. Apparently 70% is most effective. I was recently reading an article explaining that if the alcohol content is too high you scotch the outside wall of the virus but don’t kill the actual virus inside the wall. The lower alcohol content gives it time to break the wall and then kill the virus. (Which is why you need to use enough 60%+ sanitizer that it takes a while to completely dry on your hands)
Teacher Terry
3-17-20, 12:25am
All our restaurants, bars and casinos are closed. I am so glad!
If people aren't exposed they will never develop immunity. I question whether our draconian approach is the best one, especially where it is gutting our economy. Not that I have any say in the matter unless I want to move to England:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/03/16/why-covid-19-is-such-a-threat-to-the-60-plus-population-and-why-the-response-may-make-it-worse/
flowerseverywhere
3-17-20, 6:28am
We have instituted a daily check in among several groups. My neighbors, quilting friends and book club. It helps with the isolation and gives some comfort. Psychologically much damage is being done. Fear of death, starvation and worry about keeping a roof over your head must be taking quite a toll
i very much fear for families that struggle to make ends meet even though they are doing their best working full time. Even a small cutback in hours or tips could be disastrous. Add to that people stocking up so much shelves are bare leaves little for those who cannot afford to stock up.
Clearwater beach, in the meantime was jammed full of vacationing families. People are upset about having to cancel cruises and European trips. Perhaps this will all result in a reset about how we are living our lives and what our priorities should be.
Smaller government is good in some ways, but not if the weakest among us become homeless or starve.
Another effect could be medical insurance worries. Someone is going to have to pay for all this one way or another. Either with money due to increased taxes and premiums or their lives. I fear our legislators are so focused on the unborn they will neglect living breathing human beings who may be doing their best to survive but will be plunged into unemployment, poverty and total despair. I especially fear for the children. A child going to bed hungry while the rich worry about their huge stock portfolios shrinking doesn’t seem to me to be the sign of a successful society. Maybe some will be happy if the poor and old people will be naturally selected out of existence. One way to cut back on “entitlements” like social security, Medicare, food stamps and Medicaid.
happystuff
3-17-20, 7:50am
flowerseverywhere - I agree with a lot of what you have said. I keep hoping that compassion and caring for others will win out in all of this.
Our state just instituted a curfew - 8 pm to 5 am. Child went to look for milk yesterday and was able to get some. I'm trying to not let fear dictate a "running out for more, let's buy everything in sight" attitude. I believe we will do okay. I do need to order some more of my prescription - due for a refill anyway.
On the shipping industry
https://www.npr.org/2020/03/17/817021983/coronavirus-wreaks-havoc-on-the-global-shipping-industry
We have instituted a daily check in among several groups. My neighbors, quilting friends and book club. It helps with the isolation and gives some comfort. Psychologically much damage is being done. Fear of death, starvation and worry about keeping a roof over your head must be taking quite a toll
i very much fear for families that struggle to make ends meet even though they are doing their best working full time. Even a small cutback in hours or tips could be disastrous. Add to that people stocking up so much shelves are bare leaves little for those who cannot afford to stock up.
Clearwater beach, in the meantime was jammed full of vacationing families. People are upset about having to cancel cruises and European trips. Perhaps this will all result in a reset about how we are living our lives and what our priorities should be.
Smaller government is good in some ways, but not if the weakest among us become homeless or starve.
Another effect could be medical insurance worries. Someone is going to have to pay for all this one way or another. Either with money due to increased taxes and premiums or their lives. I fear our legislators are so focused on the unborn they will neglect living breathing human beings who may be doing their best to survive but will be plunged into unemployment, poverty and total despair. I especially fear for the children. A child going to bed hungry while the rich worry about their huge stock portfolios shrinking doesn’t seem to me to be the sign of a successful society. Maybe some will be happy if the poor and old people will be naturally selected out of existence. One way to cut back on “entitlements” like social security, Medicare, food stamps and Medicaid.
I agree with everything you said. If the government puts the right tools in place in order to help people who, through no fault of their own, are going to be in dire straits, it's going to be expensive. Our current tax structure is going to have to evaluated and adjusted, whether people like it or not.
What is the alcohol percent in everclear? I ask that because it may actually need to be watered down to be most effective. Apparently 70% is most effective.
I remember Everclear from college days (I did not imbibe often or I probably would not remember college days). Our understanding back then was that it was about 95% alcohol. But a quick Web search shows that Everclear now is available in different strengths: 120, 151, 189, and 190 U.S. proof; proof is about twice the percentage of alcohol content. The 151 would be the version closest to 70% alcohol content.
I buy cans of Nido dry whole milk to put into my coffee. If you can't find liquid milk, Amazon has it.
ApatheticNoMore
3-17-20, 10:43am
If people aren't exposed they will never develop immunity. I question whether our draconian approach is the best one, especially where it is gutting our economy. Not that I have any say in the matter unless I want to move to England
They are trying to avoid an Italy situation where hospital beds get overwhelmed, and people are just let to die. We have less hospital beds than Italy I believe. This system could get overwhelmed. Really if it was just me the best thing to do as a 40 something without per-existing conditions might be to go out and get the virus. The risk of death is not zero, I could die, however it's lower than more vulnerable populations. But even with lower risk groups this only makes sense if they have no contact with high risk groups, which is very seldom reality. And if they don't take hospital beds and ventilators from these high risk groups because they are one of the one's that gets really sick which will inevitable happen to some.
If people aren't exposed they will never develop immunity.
That worked so well for polio and smallpox! Good thinking!
I question whether our draconian approach is the best one, especially where it is gutting our economy. Not that I have any say in the matter unless I want to move to England:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/03/16/why-covid-19-is-such-a-threat-to-the-60-plus-population-and-why-the-response-may-make-it-worse/
Madness.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/15/epidemiologist-britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-19
Did you hear the news this morning? The Republicans have gone rogue.....let's give everyone $1000. Isn't that Socialism?
Have to say it made me truly laugh out loud:~)
catherine
3-17-20, 11:22am
Did you hear the news this morning? The Republicans have gone rogue.....let's give everyone $1000. Isn't that Socialism?
Have to say it made me truly laugh out loud:~)
Andrew Yang. A man before his time. :)
Andrew Yang. A man before his time. :)
Wasn't his plan 1000 a month though?
catherine
3-17-20, 11:40am
Wasn't his plan 1000 a month though?
Oh, yes. That's true. I do think that this 850B stimulus is OK, as long as it bridges the gap for people who are losing a tremendous amount of income on a month-by-month basis, whether they are employees or small business owners. My son is the former who works for the latter. Double whammy if his new boss's business goes under.
ApatheticNoMore
3-17-20, 11:55am
Maybe George W. Bush was a man before his time!
Hey I didn't like him and never voted for him, but I do remember a some $700+ stimulus check, maybe more than one, just sent to me all at once (whatever the amount I'm sure it's at least $1000 with inflation adjustment). It might be the only thing I ever liked about W., he got the giving people money thing down.
Much better than ridiculous payroll tax cuts that noone even notices as they are dribbled out a penny at a time. Did anyone notice them under Obama, I can't say I did (but you can be sure, they will be used to cut social security, because hey betting your entire retirement on the stock market is sure looking like a great idea right now).
Oh, yes. That's true. I do think that this 850B stimulus is OK, as long as it bridges the gap for people who are losing a tremendous amount of income on a month-by-month basis, whether they are employees or small business owners. My son is the former who works for the latter. Double whammy if his new boss's business goes under.
Many seniors living on interest from savings have already been hit horribly by this.
catherine
3-17-20, 12:26pm
Many seniors living on interest from savings have already been hit horribly by this.
Yes, I also think about people who were planning to retire soon off of income from savings in stocks. But I feel that eventually the stock market will rally. If businesses go under, it much harder to recoup.
Teacher Terry
3-17-20, 12:39pm
Flowers, I totally agree. Reno has closed bars, restaurants and non essential businesses. The casinos are closed voluntarily. So relieved for my DIL. It was scary being exposed to so many people daily.
Andrew Yang. A man before his time. :)
Nope. This was just today/last night. Flat $1000. I'm trying to come up with his name. He was on the White House briefing a bit ago.
Nope. This was just today/last night. Flat $1000. I'm trying to come up with his name. He was on the White House briefing a bit ago.
Steve Mnuchin
Steve Mnuchin
Are they paying in silver?
I don't give W much credit, because he doesn't deserve it, but he was the voice of calm reason when the reassured people that Muslims weren't the enemy, and that was a common theme for him, even before 9/11.
San Onofre Guy
3-17-20, 2:33pm
I read today, I think in the Wall Street Journal that we should do better than Europe due to private health care. Countries with socialized medicine lack enough ICU beds and ventilators. Many elderly already die earlier there due to lack of high grade facilities. That becomes more acute in an emergency.
note I’m not here to argue against one health care system or another, just sharing what I read. I also don’t believe in the elderly spending much of their last days on a ventilator
Our whole Bay Area has gone into a shelter-in-place order. School closings were announced last week and have already been closed since yesterday. All non-essential gatherings, traveling, and work are banned.
I'm glad I stocked up a few weeks ago so I don't have to be out there now, when everyone else is scrambling. I'm glad someone on here mentioned pet food a while back as I stocked up on that too.
Yes, I also think about people who were planning to retire soon off of income from savings in stocks. But I feel that eventually the stock market will rally. If businesses go under, it much harder to recoup.
I was thinking the same thing. I imagine people who were planning to retire in the near future and were trying to maximize income by staying in the stock market just a while longer to take advantage of the upward trend might be really stressed out right now.
I'm so glad that we didn't buy that second property we were considering just a couple of months ago. It's unbelievable how much has changed in such a short amount of time.
I'm so glad that we didn't buy that second property we were considering just a couple of months ago. It's unbelievable how much has changed in such a short amount of time.
I think that worry factor depends. It depends on how much one has and what lifestyle one requires. I retired last July. I am frugal and mindful of my spending. I am drawing a very small allowance each month-about 30% of what my take-home income was. I'll be fine. And since it looks like all our travel in the next 90 days will be cancelled, I won't even need to draw that $5k.
I haven't seen anyone retirees around here, expressing significant concern.
Teacher Terry
3-17-20, 3:13pm
G, many here have pensions or enough SS and savings that they are okay. Probably not so for people planning to retire in 5-10 years.
ApatheticNoMore
3-17-20, 3:15pm
I do find it beyond insane that they are thinking of sending out raw checks of money and yet we still can't get sick time and so must spread corona if we get sick. I hate this government so much. I will tell them where to put the check. Oh I'd cash it. And then maybe I'd wander over to a quiet place to die.
Probably not so for people planning to retire in 5-10 years.
I suspect that is very true! Current data is super scary: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/010616/whats-average-401k-balance-age.asp
Fiftysomethings (Age 50–59)Average 401(k) balance: $174,100
Median 401(k) balance: $60,900
Contribution rate (% of income): 10.1%
The jump in the contribution rate for this group suggests that many are taking advantage of the catch-up provision for 401(k)s, which allows people age 50 and over to deposit more (an extra $6,000 in 2019 and $6,500 in 2020) than the standard amount.3
Sixtysomethings (Age 60–69)Average 401(k) balance: $195,500
Median 401(k) balance: $62,000
Contribution rate (% of income): 11.2%
I think that worry factor depends. It depends on how much one has and what lifestyle one requires. I retired last July. I am frugal and mindful of my spending. I am drawing a very small allowance each month-about 30% of what my take-home income was. I'll be fine. And since it looks like all our travel in the next 90 days will be cancelled, I won't even need to draw that $5k.
I haven't seen anyone retirees around here, expressing significant concern.
Oh, I think people who are already retired totally dodged the bullet. It's the people who are not retired yet but were planning on 5 years or so and were still highly invested in stocks.
I know a couple who is retiring this month and I'm assuming that they had already moved most of their investments to more stable vehicles.
Oh, I think people who are already retired totally dodged the bullet. It's the people who are not retired yet but were planning on 5 years or so and were still highly invested in stocks.
I know a couple who is retiring this month and I'm assuming that they had already moved most of their investments to more stable vehicles.
Many people who are retired still keep 50 or 60 percent in stocks, since for years we have been in an environment where you cannot make enough on fixed income to have your money last your lifetime.
So I disagree with what you are saying here, and I know I did not dodge a bullet myself, nor did my husband.
I also want to add, Geila, that people who are retired are in deep trouble now, if they moved their money to "more stable vehicles," as we are now in a no-interest environment.
I’ve been retired now since 2007. I’ve held around 55-60% in stocks. Last I looked Im down a bit from the high, but I keep several years in cash.
i am a little concerned as I’m buying a house the beginning of April, and mine doesn’t close till a few days later. If the buyers of my house decide to bail, I’ll have two homes. At least I can keep their $15,000 down payment. Things would be a lot better if they go through with the deal.
I also want to add, Geila, that people who are retired are in deep trouble now, if they moved their money to "more stable vehicles," as we are now in a no-interest environment.
its not like we have been getting much interest before. Many will be able to refinance and get their home payments down.
Teacher Terry
3-17-20, 6:01pm
My 2 siblings took a lot of their money out of the market a few months ago and recommended we do the same. Also luckily we can pay our bills and have some money leftover from our pensions.
My 2 siblings took a lot of their money out of the market a few months ago and recommended we do the same. Also luckily we can pay our bills and have some money leftover from our pensions.
I'm glad, Terry! Great timing!
I believe that trying to time the market is foolish even in situations like this. We can live on a pension and a few minor ( more or less ) guaranteed sources and let the portfolio ride. On the 31st i plan on rebalancing back to 60/40 equities/debt. I’m in it for the long run.
I believe that trying to time the market is foolish even in situations like this. We can live on a pension and a few minor ( more or less ) guaranteed sources and let the portfolio ride. On the 31st i plan on rebalancing back to 60/40 equities/debt. I’m in it for the long run.
I think the key part is "We can live on a pension and a few minor (more or less guaranteed sources and let the portfolio ride."
I think your plan is very sensible, but what you describe is not true for everyone.
Are they paying in silver?
I didn't know they made fiat silver.
Teacher Terry
3-17-20, 7:28pm
Our deferred compensation has a choice of getting a guaranteed amount of interest and you can’t lose your money. I feel very fortunate that we can live on the amount we have coming in even if we didn’t have any savings.
I believe that trying to time the market is foolish even in situations like this. We can live on a pension and a few minor ( more or less ) guaranteed sources and let the portfolio ride. On the 31st i plan on rebalancing back to 60/40 equities/debt. I’m in it for the long run.
Pretty much our take, too. We were about 60% stocks going into the collapse. I did move most of our HSA money to an investment choice more likely to preserve it since we may need that money to pay health insurance premiums until we're Medicare age. But I'm leaving the rest be.
The rising cost of living is going to chew away at all of our savings, even with mild or almost no inflation. We have to have at least some money in stocks to be able to preserve our purchasing power. Given the volatility of the market right now, it's anyone's guess where bottom is and when it starts going up again, it's going to go fast. The push down was over-done, the ride up will be over-exuberant. You don't want to miss it.
ApatheticNoMore
3-17-20, 8:26pm
I didn't know they made fiat silver.
considering our government seems to be trying to kill us, I guess helping to pay the funeral expenses is only proper.
frugal-one
3-17-20, 8:41pm
I believe that trying to time the market is foolish even in situations like this. We can live on a pension and a few minor ( more or less ) guaranteed sources and let the portfolio ride. On the 31st i plan on rebalancing back to 60/40 equities/debt. I’m in it for the long run.
What asset allocation do you have now?
What asset allocation do you have now?
Lately it’s been oscillating all over the place; but right now it’s around 54% equities, which I intend to rebalance to 60% at the end of the quarter.
I think the key part is "We can live on a pension and a few minor (more or less guaranteed sources and let the portfolio ride."
I think your plan is very sensible, but what you describe is not true for everyone.
Prior to retiring, I was able to “buy” my military service years by transferring in part of my deferred compensation into my pension account. I also set up a small annuity and bond ladder. This and (eventually) social security provides our basic income plus a margin for error and minor disasters. The rest remains in a pretty conventional 60/40 portfolio of index funds for an inflation hedge, bigger disasters and bequests.
Not everyone has access to a pension, and some pensions strike me as very poorly funded, but I think anyone can use other tools to provide themselves a (fairly) safe income floor underneath a more volatile risk portfolio. Steve Vernon and Moshe Milevsky have written some useful books on the subject.
Pretty much our take, too. We were about 60% stocks going into the collapse. I did move most of our HSA money to an investment choice more likely to preserve it since we may need that money to pay health insurance premiums until we're Medicare age. But I'm leaving the rest be.
The rising cost of living is going to chew away at all of our savings, even with mild or almost no inflation. We have to have at least some money in stocks to be able to preserve our purchasing power. Given the volatility of the market right now, it's anyone's guess where bottom is and when it starts going up again, it's going to go fast. The push down was over-done, the ride up will be over-exuberant. You don't want to miss it.
You and I are pretty much on the same page. I have HSA and RHS accounts in stable value or short term treasury funds using the same logic you are.
From layoffs to loss of investment funds I think the economic impact of the virus will be much worse than the health one. The beneficiaries will be the medical industrial complex, the feeding frenzy media and manufacturers of goods people hoard, with pretty much everyone else suffering. Mnuchin is talking 20% unemployment. I think it will be a recession at a minimum, possibly a depression.
happystuff
3-18-20, 7:55am
From layoffs to loss of investment funds I think the economic impact of the virus will be much worse than the health one. The beneficiaries will be the medical industrial complex, the feeding frenzy media and manufacturers of goods people hoard, with pretty much everyone else suffering. Mnuchin is talking 20% unemployment. I think it will be a recession at a minimum, possibly a depression.
I think it's going to be "interesting" to see how things shake out. Will people learn from this and change their lifestyles or will mass consumerism return once the virus is contained/treatable? What will become the new "normal"? And I think the divide between the "haves" and "have nots" is going to get even wider, quicker.
SteveinMN
3-18-20, 10:14am
Will people learn from this and change their lifestyles or will mass consumerism return once the virus is contained/treatable? What will become the new "normal"? And I think the divide between the "haves" and "have nots" is going to get even wider, quicker.
Some will change their lifestyles. Many won't. How many people can resist the advertising and the media and the lure of new and shiny objects when all of those promote the idea of spending more and more? How many people do we know who grew up in poverty and have seemingly overcompensated for that part of their lives by spending and consuming lavishly?
Some, certainly, will see this as a wake-up call. Many who find themselves without paychecks (essentially without warning) may decide they really do need an emergency fund. Others may conclude that extending themselves over several credit cards was a poor choice. Some will be home for several weeks and find that that clarifies unresolved issues in their lives -- choice of job, choice of partner, etc. and there will be changes coming from that awareness.
I am hopeful that there will be the resurgence of a notion that's been beaten down for about 40 years now -- that some things can be minimized or defeated only by us banding together, regardless of personal beliefs or status. COVID-19 is not something that can be warded off by prayers to the "correct" deity or by having millions in the bank or by being LBGTQA or by living in a city or the country. Perhaps others will recognize that "when we all do better, we all do better". Since this runs counter to many powerful interests, however, I'm not holding my breath in hope.
catherine
3-18-20, 10:22am
Well said, Steve.
Simplemind
3-18-20, 12:05pm
Love that Steve.
iris lilies
3-18-20, 12:50pm
It is interesting that the UK which had been taking pretty much a “let it spread” position* has now changed abruptly.
If you haven’t been following how world governments are addressing the spread of the coronavirus, it’s pretty interesting.
*”Let it Spread” is my simplistic catch phrase, And of course the UK’s policy is far more nuanced and complex.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/new-data-new-policy-why-uks-coronavirus-strategy-has-changed
*”Let it Spread” is my simplistic catch phrase, And of course the UK’s policy is far more nuanced and complex.
I think it is more properly "Let it Spread, kill off all the old people so the NHS budget will look better moving forward".
My daughter, who lives in a fortified Roman city in the UK, is packing her bags today to move out to a fortified Roman country villa for the duration.
iris lilies
3-18-20, 1:52pm
I think it is more properly "Let it Spread, kill off all the old people so the NHS budget will look better moving forward".
My daughter, who lives in a fortified Roman city in the UK, is packing her bags today to move out to a fortified Roman country villa for the duration.
This hints at the many opportunities for black humor in this environment, but I honestly think the SL forums have too many people easily upset by anything resembling humor ( or a small number who are disproportionally vocal) about our National situation that I am restraining myself here, somewhat.
Mustn’t fuss people unnecessarily. Also the people who are literal thinkers, black and white thinkers seem to have trouble with irony.
There are some threads on the Mr. Money Mustache website picking up the humor vein, tho.That is a younger, male-dominated crowd so there’s going to be more black humor over there.
iris lilies
3-18-20, 2:09pm
Bae, I have to say You are probably right about your apprehension about outsiders fleeing to your remote island.
My favorite hate read, an Instagram queen, pulled up her family from Seattle to flee to Mount Shasta, CA, population 3000. Because Mt Shasta has so many resources, ya know? Eyeroll. So she and the family took a leisurely drive from Seattle through Portland stopped in Portland, spread epicenter Seattle germs, drove down through southern Oregon spreading germs into Northern California.
This is someone who is a stay at home mom. Her husband can work remotely. They are not in a risk group, they have small children and they themselves are in their 30s. There is no reason for them to move to the hinterlands.
Now they are sequestered in an Airbnb house in the woods. And her Instagram broadcast she actually seems a little crazy so I wonder what’s going on in her head.
We made the decision to go through with our vacation to Hawaii this week because last week that seemed a reasonable decision. And because SO’s mom, for whom this trip is her Christmas gift absolutely wanted to do it. If our plans had been a week later we would have likely cancelled. Now we sit here in our room eating breakfast because the hotel restaurant closed it’s dining room at the governor’s request. My sister asked how I would feel if we get stuck here. I have my work computer and phone with me so we could stay and there’s a lovely beach 300 feet from here but honestly I hope we can get home Saturday. And I hope my MIL and SO’s sister get home safely. I worry, probably excessively, since they have to change planes in Seattle. But MIL IS 87. She’s definitely a candidate for a serious case of it if she gets sick.
Regarding humor, there certainly is plenty of humor to be had. SO seems to have focused on the toilet paper part of it. A week ago he posted a comment on Facebook that the grocery store had a TP substitute still available, with a picture of a box of Imodium. And then Monday he took a picture of himself next to a display of cabbage on sale at Safeway and posted it with the caption ‘Safeway has stocked up on organic toilet paper.’
There are starting to be reports that though the numbers are lower, the virus may not be as benign to young people and kids as previously thought. DD is now worried about her nonprofit job. Every day brings a new worry. I am outside today planting peas hoping that staying off the internet most of the day will help with anxiety.
dado potato
3-18-20, 6:21pm
We made the decision to go through with our vacation to Hawaii.’
Did it seem to you that the count of Asian tourists was down from normal levels? It could be that you timed your Hawaii vacation extremely well, in terms of uncrowded beaches.
Be well, e maika'i
There seem to be almost no Asian tourists. Very different from previous visits.
iris lilies
3-18-20, 6:52pm
There seem to be almost no Asian tourists. Very different from previous visits.
I have an off-topic question.
If you’re an Asian tourist, why would you go all the way to Hawaii when there are lots of beaches and tropical places in your own part of the world? I mean, is it really that great. Is it marketing that gets them there?
I say this as someone who obviously has not been to Hawaii and doesn’t especially care about tropical paradises, So they all kind of blend in together to me.
Kaiser in Colorado is closing 21 of their clinics and leaving 10 others serving essential needs open. I'm not sure of the specifics. Also, I've noticed hospitals are generally postponing elective surgeries to free up supplies and bed space for some sort of expected corona patients. Our state has had a little under 200 positive cases so I'm assuming there is an expectation or anticipation of a wave of new patients.
I've been wondering how commercial TV will fare. About half of the commercials are for businesses that are closed. I guess these were part of a contract paid for in advance or a binding commitment. The pharma and lawyer ads might have to keep them afloat.
It is hard to tell what is going on. Are more people getting infected, or are we just finding out about people who have been infected already because now the tests are being done? To me the most reliable statistic is deaths, but people could have died from COVID-19 earlier and that not have been listed as the cause of death because awareness was less than. How many autopsies were done in say January on elderly nursing home residents with underlying medical issues not expected to live long?
I have an off-topic question.
If you’re an Asian tourist, why would you go all the way to Hawaii when there are lots of beaches and tropical places in your own part of the world? I mean, is it really that great. Is it marketing that gets them there?
I say this as someone who obviously has not been to Hawaii and doesn’t especially care about tropical paradises, So they all kind of blend in together to me.
To go shopping and shoot guns.
It is hard to tell what is going on. Are more people getting infected, or are we just finding out about people who have been infected already because now the tests are being done? To me the most reliable statistic is deaths, but people could have died from COVID-19 earlier and that not have been listed as the cause of death because awareness was less than. How many autopsies were done in say January on elderly nursing home residents with underlying medical issues not expected to live long?
At a press conference today, the IL governor said that there are a lot more cases now in our state due to more testing. IL was the first state that was able to do its own testing.
It is hard to tell what is going on. Are more people getting infected, or are we just finding out about people who have been infected already because now the tests are being done? To me the most reliable statistic is deaths, but people could have died from COVID-19 earlier and that not have been listed as the cause of death because awareness was less than. How many autopsies were done in say January on elderly nursing home residents with underlying medical issues not expected to live long?
Remember, this has a 14d incubation period. So every day I am around 30 people , they are all exposed to me because I don't know I am incubating.
So take that statistic out to all of those people being 14days and all they have exposed.
As an Infection Prevention practitioner (yes, did that too), I believe we are another 100 days out before we are on the downside of the hill. AND a very big AND, if people would follow the guidelines. Since people are NOT, this will go on. 100 more days is optimistic!
I'm already assuming our June 20th trip to Canada for our 40th anniversary will be a no go.
I have to admit that my life is going on much the same. I'm something of a homebody. Still going into the office. Small office and few visitors. My church and gym are closed, so I'm just back and forth to home. I'll start diving the beginning of April if the quarry 90 minutes away opens. There are few divers there until sometime in May. The water is too cold for them otherwise.
A friend of mine outside Lincoln has a very serious and aggressive cancer on her adrenal gland. Her surgery is considered elective and was cancelled this morning. I'm very concerned for her. It already has a shitty survival of 3.21 years. No estimate on when they might take that sucker out. I am so so sad.
A friend of mine outside Lincoln has a very serious and aggressive cancer on her adrenal gland. Her surgery is considered elective and was cancelled this morning. I'm very concerned for her. It already has a shitty survival of 3.21 years. No estimate on when they might take that sucker out. I am so so sad.
:(
To go shopping and shoot guns.
To clarify. Not at the same time.
There are plenty of mall shootings, just not in Hawaii (yet).
iris lilies
3-18-20, 8:51pm
To go shopping and shoot guns.
What? Shooting guns? Is this a place that has a lot of shooting ranges?
And oh yeah I suppose there are palaces of consumption, shopping malls in Hawaii, but that seems like a stupid thing to do when you’re in a tropical paradise.
I have to admit that my life is going on much the same. I'm something of a homebody. Still going into the office. Small office and few visitors. My church and gym are closed, so I'm just back and forth to home. I'll start diving the beginning of April if the quarry 90 minutes away opens. There are few divers there until sometime in May. The water is too cold for them otherwise.
For introverts like me, and probably you, this isn’t asking for such a drastic lifestyle change as it is for extroverts. Even I expect to feel the effects though. After all I’m not a total hermit. The nine months I’ve been working from home I’ve really come to look forward to our Friday nights when we usually meet friends for happy hour and dinner, the one time each week that I go out and be social.
What? Shooting guns? Is this a place that has a lot of shooting ranges?
And oh yeah I suppose there are pallets of consumption Nana shopping malls in Hawaii, but he seems like a stupid thing to do when you’re in a tropical paradise.
The first time I was in Honolulu I was baffled by all the guys with sandwich boards advertising gun ranges. Then I came across a guy in one giving his spiel in Japanese and he was surrounded by eager Japanese tourists and suddenly it made sense. They can’t do it at home.
As far as the shopping supposedly it’s a lot cheaper. I have no idea if that’s really the case.
When my company in Silicon Valley had some Japanese business partners, I was in charge of showing them around the area, due to my limited knowledge of Japanese and unlimited interest in fun.
Every single one of the visitors wanted to go to the shooting ranges and learn to shoot real firearms. Which I was happy to help with.
There are plenty of mall shootings, just not in Hawaii (yet).
True. And if/when it happens I doubt the demographic of the shooter will be Japanese tourist.
When my company in Silicon Valley had some Japanese business partners, I was in charge of showing them around the area, due to my limited knowledge of Japanese and unlimited interest in fun.
Every single one of the visitors wanted to go to the shooting ranges and learn to shoot real firearms. Which I was happy to help with.
I can understand. An insurance broker friend of mine, typical California progressive type who had never had occasion to shoot guns used to have a job that involved supporting a team of people in Cleveland. She came back from a trip there all excited to show off the video where they taught her how to shoot one. She had had a great time.
Before recent events my boss was planning a team offsite in Vegas in July. I’d convinced him that the ‘fun’ activity should be going to a gun range. Hopefully that won’t have to be put off for forever.
ToomuchStuff
3-19-20, 12:07am
I think it is more properly "Let it Spread, kill off all the old people so the NHS budget will look better moving forward".
This hints at the many opportunities for black humor in this environment, but I honestly think the SL forums have too many people easily upset by anything resembling humor ( or a small number who are disproportionally vocal) about our National situation that I am restraining myself here, somewhat.
Mustn’t fuss people unnecessarily. Also the people who are literal thinkers, black and white thinkers seem to have trouble with irony.
Here then,
https://youtu.be/Sh8mNjeuyV4
Does anyone personally know someone who has tested positive? Or died of corona? I don't.
153 deaths in the US among 327 million people is a drop in the bucket. I think people will still do things like go to crowded beaches for spring break until their social circle is impacted.
My neighbor years ago lived through the 1918 influenza epidemic and used to tell me about it. Everyone was affected. The girl he later married lost both her parents and for the rest of his life after he met her he donated to charities for orphans.
Does anyone personally know someone who has tested positive? Or died of corona? I don't.
153 deaths in the US among 327 million people is a drop in the bucket. I think people will still do things like go to crowded beaches for spring break until their social circle is impacted.
My neighbor years ago lived through the 1918 influenza epidemic and used to tell me about it. Everyone was affected. The girl he later married lost both her parents and for the rest of his life after he met her he donated to charities for orphans.
Yes, my boss just had it. (I work remotely.) She got it at the Colorado caucus. She said she was sick for a few days and in quarantine and is now fine.
For introverts like me, and probably you, this isn’t asking for such a drastic lifestyle change as it is for extroverts. Even I expect to feel the effects though. After all I’m not a total hermit. The nine months I’ve been working from home I’ve really come to look forward to our Friday nights when we usually meet friends for happy hour and dinner, the one time each week that I go out and be social.
If my diving is affected, then all bets are off. I’ve got my big diving class that I’ve been working hard for this year.
SteveinMN
3-19-20, 10:26am
I've been wondering how commercial TV will fare. About half of the commercials are for businesses that are closed.
That's part of the long tail I mentioned in one thread or another here (maybe "Boy that Dow"). There are going to be ripples from this pandemic which will be felt several levels removed from the actual medical issue and the slump in the world market indexes. People without money won't be buying goods or experiences. Expect that the cruise industry will come back minus a few brand names people recognize now. Some near-luxury branded goods won't be seen again in stores. Many restaurants and bars and hair salons will close for not having enough funds to continue paying the bills until business comes back. Many boutiques and specialty stores (cosmetics, fancy pet food, etc.) are going to take a hit, in some cases fatal. And then there will be the ancillary businesses, like ad agencies, travel consultants, and freelance video producers, that suffer for lack of money floating around.
I wrote in the Boy that Dow thread that I expect the market to come back relatively quickly. I still do; market averages are not the entire economy. But this pandemic is going to leave a sizable mark on lots of people who don't suffer more than a cough for a few days.
That's part of the long tail I mentioned in one thread or another here (maybe "Boy that Dow"). There are going to be ripples from this pandemic which will be felt several levels removed from the actual medical issue and the slump in the world market indexes. People without money won't be buying goods or experiences. Expect that the cruise industry will come back minus a few brand names people recognize now. Some near-luxury branded goods won't be seen again in stores. Many restaurants and bars and hair salons will close for not having enough funds to continue paying the bills until business comes back. Many boutiques and specialty stores (cosmetics, fancy pet food, etc.) are going to take a hit, in some cases fatal. And then there will be the ancillary businesses, like ad agencies, travel consultants, and freelance video producers, that suffer for lack of money floating around.
I wrote in the Boy that Dow thread that I expect the market to come back relatively quickly. I still do; market averages are not the entire economy. But this pandemic is going to leave a sizable mark on lots of people who don't suffer more than a cough for a few days.
I was thinking that suddenly Yang's guaranteed income makes better sense. There will be small or maybe big businesses that are not going to weather through this and will be out of business, whether it's short lived or long term closures. The governments fiscal stimulus is unlikely to affect a lot of businesses and the $1000. checks we've been promised are just a short term band aid or feel good money. I had a college friend in the financial business who was caught up in the 2007 meltdown and for a time was living out of his car and doing night time janitor work. I don't know if any predictions of unemployment are reliable right now, but people in certain previously gainful professions are going to be hitting the food banks and shelters.
I have some money in municipal bonds and have even wondered if some of these might default in places where local resources are strained are unprepared.
rosarugosa
3-19-20, 12:45pm
I did a curbside pickup at my local wild bird store yesterday. The owner is a great guy, and he's running a one-man show right now with a really good strategy for making sales with no real risks to himself or his customers. If I'm going to be spending more time at home, I can't have empty bird feeders, so I did a substantial stock-up order.
Our city has shut down access to most public buildings and mass transit. Our public library has started a curbside pickup service.
I went grocery shopping this morning just to see how things were and buy some meat for the freezer if available. Pleasantly surprised that the store had everything I needed, including lots of fresh veggies and fruit so I loaded up on those. Bought some pork for the freezer and a few other things. They still had some toilet paper and paper towels, not much, but some and they are restricting quantities. I didn't need any so left them for others. They are well stocked on eggs, milk, chicken, etc. Plenty of staples on the shelves: crackers, tortillas, rice, beans, even some bread. And they had plenty of fresh-baked bread as well as their rotisserie chicken.
Everyone was pleasant and we even exchanged a few jokes amongst our fellow shoppers and staff, who were busy stocking the shelves and produce.
Traffic was light on the street and the weirdest thing was seeing the mall parking lot completely empty.
We should be good for the next few weeks.
That's part of the long tail I mentioned in one thread or another here (maybe "Boy that Dow"). There are going to be ripples from this pandemic which will be felt several levels removed from the actual medical issue and the slump in the world market indexes. People without money won't be buying goods or experiences. Expect that the cruise industry will come back minus a few brand names people recognize now. Some near-luxury branded goods won't be seen again in stores. Many restaurants and bars and hair salons will close for not having enough funds to continue paying the bills until business comes back. Many boutiques and specialty stores (cosmetics, fancy pet food, etc.) are going to take a hit, in some cases fatal. And then there will be the ancillary businesses, like ad agencies, travel consultants, and freelance video producers, that suffer for lack of money floating around.
I wrote in the Boy that Dow thread that I expect the market to come back relatively quickly. I still do; market averages are not the entire economy. But this pandemic is going to leave a sizable mark on lots of people who don't suffer more than a cough for a few days.
I think you are right. There could be all kinds of short and longer term ramifications. Will online education increase or decrease its stigma after so many new students are exposed to it? Or will working from home or telemedicine be looked at differently? Will certain careers or investments be viewed differently after their vulnerabilities are highlighted in such an extreme way? Will the general public become more amenable to big government solutions or find a renewed respect for local and individual action?
My manager came into the office today with a story that she talked to someone last night who works for the Feds. We’re going on a 2 week lockdown beginning Monday but they’re only going to announce it Sunday night so there’s no panicked preparation. She said United Nations troops are going to enforce it. I laughed. She didn’t get it when I told her UN troops wouldn’t be involved as they come from outside the US.
Another coworker said a friend of her in the National Guard was told she’s going to be gone for around 30 days. That does make sense as the NG is already being used for various things.
Manager told our regional VP. We’re having to take all our files home with us tomorrow.
She is gullible and doesn’t pay attention to the regular news.
I went grocery shopping this morning just to see how things were and buy some meat for the freezer if available. Pleasantly surprised that the store had everything I needed, including lots of fresh veggies and fruit so I loaded up on those. Bought some pork for the freezer and a few other things. They still had some toilet paper and paper towels, not much, but some and they are restricting quantities. I didn't need any so left them for others. They are well stocked on eggs, milk, chicken, etc. Plenty of staples on the shelves: crackers, tortillas, rice, beans, even some bread. And they had plenty of fresh-baked bread as well as their rotisserie chicken.
Everyone was pleasant and we even exchanged a few jokes amongst our fellow shoppers and staff, who were busy stocking the shelves and produce.
Traffic was light on the street and the weirdest thing was seeing the mall parking lot completely empty.
We should be good for the next few weeks.
Correction: They had everything I WANTED. It's so easy to see wants as needs immediately. I had everything I needed already. Gosh, we are used to so much comfort.
I think you are right. There could be all kinds of short and longer term ramifications.
You hit on the societal changes stemming from the pandemic, another whole element of it.
If enough work can be done from homes, do companies need to build huge structures their employees commute to every day? People are social and there are many jobs which are not easy to replicate at home. But for those of us who could work with a computer to get most/all of our work done, how critical is an fixed office or cube somewhere? Maybe office buildings start to look more like those co-work places where you walk in, grab a cart of supplies, find a spot, and get to work. Make it convenient for you. Pick the place near your kids' day care or your favorite coffee shop. Does it matter that the company logo is not on the building? Smaller buildings, less to buy, less to heat/cool/repair, ... so what happens to the commercial real estate market? What happens to the old command-and-control managerial model? If the work gets done without the boss walking by the desk at regular intervals, what does the boss do instead of making bed checks?
The number of local businesses I've seen that have moved to a drive up/pay/load up/drive home/delivery model -- and the speed with which it's happened -- surprises me. The vet clinic we used to use now asks you to call when you arrive with your pet. A vet tech comes out, takes the pet, they do their thing inside, the pet is returned to you, the vet tech can take your payment, and the tech can relay what the vet said or the vet will call you later with the Dx and treatment options. You no longer wait in their building.
Someone in another thread mentioned curbside pickup at Sherwin-Williams, about the last place I would ever think would change their business model. They did it in the space of a week or two. Local bar/pizza joint is doing the same thing. What does this mean for delivery services if every company now has a process for sales outside their stores? Not that (some) people don't want to shop, but it's a new delivery model and it showed up almost literally overnight.
My favorite radio station -- non-profit, listener-supported, has moved all of its staff out of the studios. Even the on-air staff is doing their shows from home. The only people on hand are an engineer at the booth to monitor the equipment. They did this in days. If nothing else, it shows resourcefulness and that business can move a whole lot faster than many thought it could. That could be an interesting dynamic in the future, too.
Kind of fun to watch this aspect of it.
You hit on the societal changes stemming from the pandemic, another whole element of it.
If enough work can be done from homes, do companies need to build huge structures their employees commute to every day? People are social and there are many jobs which are not easy to replicate at home. But for those of us who could work with a computer to get most/all of our work done, how critical is an fixed office or cube somewhere? Maybe office buildings start to look more like those co-work places where you walk in, grab a cart of supplies, find a spot, and get to work. Make it convenient for you. Pick the place near your kids' day care or your favorite coffee shop. Does it matter that the company logo is not on the building? Smaller buildings, less to buy, less to heat/cool/repair, ... so what happens to the commercial real estate market? What happens to the old command-and-control managerial model? If the work gets done without the boss walking by the desk at regular intervals, what does the boss do instead of making bed checks?
The number of local businesses I've seen that have moved to a drive up/pay/load up/drive home/delivery model -- and the speed with which it's happened -- surprises me. The vet clinic we used to use now asks you to call when you arrive with your pet. A vet tech comes out, takes the pet, they do their thing inside, the pet is returned to you, the vet tech can take your payment, and the tech can relay what the vet said or the vet will call you later with the Dx and treatment options. You no longer wait in their building.
Someone in another thread mentioned curbside pickup at Sherwin-Williams, about the last place I would ever think would change their business model. They did it in the space of a week or two. Local bar/pizza joint is doing the same thing. What does this mean for delivery services if every company now has a process for sales outside their stores? Not that (some) people don't want to shop, but it's a new delivery model and it showed up almost literally overnight.
My favorite radio station -- non-profit, listener-supported, has moved all of its staff out of the studios. Even the on-air staff is doing their shows from home. The only people on hand are an engineer at the booth to monitor the equipment. They did this in days. If nothing else, it shows resourcefulness and that business can move a whole lot faster than many thought it could. That could be an interesting dynamic in the future, too.
Kind of fun to watch this aspect of it.
It is interesting. The thought of working from home and not being aware of your coworkers and supervisors or professors were human or artificial intelligence.
mschrisgo2
3-19-20, 4:50pm
Schools here were given less than 24 hours to identify and assemble grade level materials and assignments for students. Then the teachers stripped and cleaned their classrooms top to bottom in 2 days. It usually takes a big janitorial staff all summer to clean. As soon as they were done, the County issued Shelter at Home orders. Parents out of work are learning to homeschool. I think we are witnessing the beginning of a huge change in our K-12 education model.
not being aware of your coworkers and supervisors or professors were human or artificial intelligence.
In my IT career at several global companies, I worked on many projects -- sometimes for years -- with people I never met in person. They were on the other end of email or a chat window. Sometimes we would converse about weekend activities or vacations or the like but I would not have been able to pick them out of a police lineup if I had to. I knew that little about them. I suppose they could have been avatars using artificial intelligence and I would not have known.
And, honestly, it would not have made a difference. Because I often reported to human beings who closely modeled Dilbert's Pointy-Haired Boss. Artificial intelligence, indeed.
My manager came into the office today with a story that she talked to someone last night who works for the Feds. We’re going on a 2 week lockdown beginning Monday but they’re only going to announce it Sunday night so there’s no panicked preparation. She said United Nations troops are going to enforce it. I laughed. She didn’t get it when I told her UN troops wouldn’t be involved as they come from outside the US.
Another coworker said a friend of her in the National Guard was told she’s going to be gone for around 30 days. That does make sense as the NG is already being used for various things.
Manager told our regional VP. We’re having to take all our files home with us tomorrow.
She is gullible and doesn’t pay attention to the regular news.
I had not seen or heard about this, but apparently it IS a thing that people are fretting about. USA Today just did a story about it, concluding that you are likely correct about there not going to be a national quarantine.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEKYm1k3oMtHkENudMzfFE2cqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowjsP7Cj CSpPQCMM_b5QU?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
dado potato
3-19-20, 11:38pm
About 50 retail chains are closing all their stores. Generally not grocery, hardware or drug stores, but mainly retailers of apparel, housewares, electronics and sporting goods. Obviously the malls are going to be much quieter. Like the airlines, hotels, casinos, cinemas, and restaurants, I expect the retailers will be laying people off... and maybe making a pitch to Uncle Sam for an emergency zero-interest loan to pay the rent and the overhead for the duration of the closures.
I hope we all will be around to see them reopen. Most of the retailers are saying it will only be a few weeks. It could end up being 18 months, in my estimation. (I can't think of very many corporations that would be able to survive 18 months without revenue, so maybe Uncle Sam will become a minority owner of the more deserving ones. <wink>)
Retail was already in trouble before this happened. Win for Amazon, loss for bricks and mortar.
From densely populated China to densely populated US areas (shelters in place are in Seattle and the San Francisco area and New Rochelle NY), it seems we are exceeding the carrying capacity of the planet. Not enough room for the various life forms to live without some colonizing others, not enough food without people eating wildlife bitten by bats.
flowerseverywhere
3-20-20, 5:37am
Fortunately most posters here are creative and resilient. For instance, why all the toilet paper hysteria. Cut up an old sheet or cotton shirt and use that for liquid waste. Rinse out and throw in the laundry. Save your paper for solid waste
hand sanitizer? Use bar soap. Save sanitizer when you have to go out in public. I am sharing mine with neighbors to refill their small containers
figure out how to plant a container garden if you don’t have a suitable yard.
use more lentils and beans.
ride a bike or walk.
We are are heading towards a recession or depression. Start learning how to make do, band together with neighbors and turn the TV news off except for small doses.
I wish I had some bidets to sell ...
Our governor just ordered all barbershops/hair salons to close until the end of April. I'm going to give a try to home hair cuts before then. One comment was, now we find out people's real hair color.
ApatheticNoMore
3-20-20, 9:05am
I wish I had some bidets to sell ...
I'm not even sure how or if I could install that in a rental apartment. What needs to happen is municipalities in charge of water and sewage need to start delivering TP for everyone once a week or something. Add a TP charge to the bill, I don't even care. As it's going to be not just annoying, but a crisis for the sewage system pretty soon as people start using anything and everything. The sewage system can't necessarily handle it. All because of hoarders ruining life for everyone else. Time to implement rationing pretty soon I think.
iris lilies
3-20-20, 9:06am
Fortunately most posters here are creative and resilient. For instance, why all the toilet paper hysteria. Cut up an old sheet or cotton shirt and use that for liquid waste. Rinse out and throw in the laundry. Save your paper for solid waste
hand sanitizer? Use bar soap. Save sanitizer when you have to go out in public. I am sharing mine with neighbors to refill their small containers
figure out how to plant a container garden if you don’t have a suitable yard.
use more lentils and beans.
ride a bike or walk.
We are are heading towards a recession or depression. Start learning how to make do, band together with neighbors and turn the TV news off except for small doses.
about bar soap:we only switched to liquid soap a couple of years ago.
I laid in a small stock of liquid soap for this event, and after only a few days, switched back to bar soap. DH had just purchased a big package of Dial bar soap whoch he wanits to ise in the shower. It was horrifying how much we were using of the liquid stuff!
I've always thought of liquid soap as another source of plastic going to the landfill, unless there's some small chance of it being recycled.
I'm not even sure how or if I could install that in a rental apartment. What needs to happen is municipalities in charge of water and sewage need to start delivering TP for everyone once a week or something. Add a TP charge to the bill, I don't even care. As it's going to be not just annoying, but a crisis for the sewage system pretty soon as people start using anything and everything. The sewage system can't necessarily handle it. All because of hoarders ruining life for everyone else. Time to implement rationing pretty soon I think.
You can buy bidet attachments to retrofit an existing toilet.
In case you're interested in making your own mask, here's an overview of potential mask materials.
https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus/?fbclid=IwAR3xBkT0j_J-5ovqpoPDyYtPLjUO255-ulT6zmf2K2WrdWSE8UgbCxmH3N8
Teacher Terry
3-20-20, 11:45am
We use only liquid soap but refill our containers. Instacart delivers groceries to your home from a variety of stores. You choose the store you want. You can shop at Costco without belonging because they do. The least of my worries is a TP shortage.
My concern is not toilet paper but fresh produce. Being in the above 60 crowd, I am beginning to fear going out at all except for walks so need to try delivery I guess.
Instacart delivers groceries to your home from a variety of stores. You choose the store you want.
I'm seeing reports in on-line forums (locally and not; friends and fellow site-members) that delivery is popular enough that it could be up to a week before you find an open delivery time. Anyone considering this option might want to check their preferred service and perhaps plan ahead.
mschrisgo2
3-20-20, 2:02pm
I ordered dog food online last night. Estimated time to delivery, 7-10 days. My neighbor tell me she has been getting hers overnight, same vendor, for years.
On another hand, I just ordered my annual MacBook power adapter >8) before noon today and it will be here in two days (then add a day for the cardboard shipping box to sit outside somewhere, protected, before I bring it into the house).
I don't need groceries, but I've been adding to a list for pickup. I hope to be able to pick it up by midweek next week. We'll see.
I visited my primary care physician today for something that needed attention, but not especially critical. There was a sign at the entrance, if you have a fever, cold symptoms, or recent travel, call from your car for an escort inside. The doc explained that these people are brought in through separate entrance and the staff wore N95 masks and maybe other PPE and were treated in a separate area. He went on to describe the disinfection of the regular exam rooms, a wipe down of chair arms, door levers, and other surfaces after each patient. His said the number of patient visits was down to half of normal and had concerns about maintaining a fully staffed office and may have to reduce office hours and that some of this was because of undue contagion fears. Although I'd just as soon have stayed away, I felt fairly comfortable with their efforts to minimize risk.
It's the first time I'd been out and about for a few days and it all had sort of a eerie ghost town feeling along the shopping areas. Less traffic than normal, but some. One gas station posted a 1.78/gal gas price. Monday I plan to go to WF to restock groceries. They are opening an hour early each day for over 60 people only. WF might not be at the top of my grocery shopping preference, but I like the senior hour shopping and they keep a very clean store. Plus they are probably freshly stocked in the early morning.
I'm thinking unless things change, I'll be on a restock schedule of every couple of weeks to maintain supplies at around a month. The local recycling center has closed indefinitely so for the time being I'm sending everything to the landfill except aluminum.
Teacher Terry
3-26-20, 2:35pm
So 2 days ago my son was set to stay in Vietnam because the flights were thousands of dollars and he felt safer. The whole country is shutting down in a day so he found a flight that was 2100 and now 600 so booked it. He will be home tomorrow. His dad said he will reimburse me. I guess he took our financial talk that we had a few weeks ago seriously. He asked where the ticket was to and I said here because he has nowhere else to go. His wife won’t allow any of the kids to live with them. Told me to quarantine him for 2 weeks and I asked how I would do that.
happystuff
3-26-20, 2:50pm
Terry - wishing safe travels for your son! And best of luck to all of you with working out the quarantine issues ahead.
Terry, so glad your son will be here, and will be with you.
Terry, I am so glad here has a flight to get back home, and it will all work it okay.
The one thing to keep in mind is that we will all work through this despite the challenges we are facing. Sending hugs and good wishes to all near and far.
Terry, very glad to hear your son will be coming home.
Teacher Terry
3-26-20, 6:05pm
I had totally forgotten that my oldest son and his wife have a 2 bedroom apartment that each has its own bathroom. So they are willing to quarantine Jeffrey there for 2 weeks to protect us. Money is tight for them so I will give them money for food. Jeffrey is a big smoker so my other son is going to buy nicotine gum for him:))
My daughter has successfully escaped Cambridge University, and is now set up at her boyfriend's parents place way out in the country. They are planting a Victory Garden, and setting up chicken keeping. This morning she was convincing them that snaring rabbits was a good plan - luckily she's well educated in such things.
She's basically stuck there for the duration now.
Teacher Terry
3-26-20, 6:08pm
It sounds like she is in a safe place Bae.
I'm glad everyone's kids are safer.
Today I went to Walmart and got water. For the first time I saw people wearing masks.
flowerseverywhere
3-26-20, 8:01pm
There are cases near me but we are self quarantining. Of course our governor would not close the beaches, bars, and restaurants due to spring break. All those spring breakers got into cars and planes and flew north.
My retirement community has everything closed. A few restaurants open for takeout. One community about ten miles has its gym, pool and clubhouse open. Probably because it’s all a hoax you know.
I had totally forgotten that my oldest son and his wife have a 2 bedroom apartment that each has its own bathroom. So they are willing to quarantine Jeffrey there for 2 weeks to protect us. Money is tight for them so I will give them money for food. Jeffrey is a big smoker so my other son is going to buy nicotine gum for him:))
That is a wonderful solution! So glad they figured it out and he can stay there.
happystuff
3-28-20, 9:41am
Terry - glad things worked out for your son!
bae - glad your dd is safe.
Hope everyone else is doing well.
dado potato
3-28-20, 7:53pm
Minnesota and Wisconsin are adjacent to each other and have tested approximately the same number of residents, but Minnesota has been far more successful in "bending the curve". The number of confirmed cases of COVID-19 per million people in MN grew by more than 35% during the first 4 days after the first case was confirmed in MN. But around the time MN closed the schools, bars and restaurants, the hit rate for MN declined. As of 3/27/2020, the rate of confirmed cases per million people had dropped to .0273 in MN, compared to .0609 in WI.
Minnesota 441 positive tests in 16,129 persons tested.
Wisconsin 989/16,221
I wonder if the Minnesota residents are more willing and able to be socially distant than comparable people in Wisconsin.
I could contrast the messages of the two Governors when they each ordered the closure of bars and restaurants (effective 5 PM on St Patrick's Day, March 17).
In Minnesota, Gov Tim Walz stood behind a podium and said, "We need folks' cooperation. … We need to stop congregating." ...The bars and restaurants will be closed at 5 PM.
In Wisconsin, Gov Tony Evers sat at a desk and read out of a visible 3-ring binder: "As of 5 PM today all bars and restaurants will be closed in the state... We have cases of community spread... Stay home if you can."
Governor Evers delivered the order at 2:30 PM. The Tavern League of Wisconsin immediately emailed their members the message: That (order by Gov Evers) is not realistic as thousands of taverns and restaurants across the state have people in their establishments for St Patrick's Day celebration. To kick people out would pose serious issues.... Use your own judgment
Later the Tavern League of Wisconsin clarified that they had no intention of defying the Governor's order.
Milwaukee County is the location of 489 of Wisconsin's 989 positive tests. I see media reports that city and county officials there "are issuing reminders about safe social distancing". They warn that "state laws could allow law enforcement to issue at least a $250 fine and up to 30 days in jail". But the Sheriff's office is quoted , "what we want to do is get voluntary compliance."
Meanwhile on the lakefront trail... It has been noted that the mayor Chicago has closed their lakefront trail. The mayor of Milwaukee, Tom Barrett, says he does not think Milwaukee is at that point. "But if I see any evidence of congregating, we are going to go in there with lightening speed."
I am stuck in my state now. If I leave when I come back I have to self-quarantine for 14 days. I am closer to one adjacent state than I am to my job. It feels very strange, because I know viruses do not look at border lines on a map.
The Chicago mayor was on TV pretty much scolding everyone to get off the lakefront. I don't know if Milwaukee's lakefront is as popular as Chicago's, what with the long bike/pedestrian path Chicago has.
https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/city-of-chicago-shuts-down-lakefront-trail-amid-covid-19-outbreak/
SteveinMN
3-29-20, 10:10am
I wonder if the Minnesota residents are more willing and able to be socially distant than comparable people in Wisconsin.
I can't speak for the other 5.999999 million of us but I think we are. :)
In truth, I do believe the Milwaukee area was hit by COVID-19 before it landed in Minnesota, so Wisconsin got a head start. That would account for some of the differences in numbers.
But, sociologically, I think there's a difference between Minnesotans and (at least) western-living Wisconsonites (don't know anyone on the east side of the state). Minnesotans generally tend to be more aware of the value of compromising individual behavior (or freedoms) if it benefits the collective. Not that everyone has to like compromising; it's just reinforced through things like limits on how many fish you can catch and with whatever the state has to do to keep the Boundary Waters free of development and unspoken rules about how soon you merge into one lane when there's a road restriction ahead. And since people are not moving out of the state in droves and its economy is doing better than Wisconsin's, I suspect most folks are okay with the results, if not four-square behind how we get there.
The standing joke here is that Governor Walz could have had every Minnesotan glue himself or herself to their houses by announcing that, if we didn't, the State Fair would be canceled. That still might happen (who knows??) but us Minnesotans take our state fair very seriously. Iowa may have had a song written about theirs, but people come to ours.
iris lilies
3-29-20, 10:43am
Sorry, dude, Iowa State fair is the Great State Fair. No other compares.
I’ve been to the state fairs of Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri, Iowa, and yes, Minnesota.
I’ve been going to the Illinois State fair the last few years because it’s closer to me than Missouri state fair is. I judge flower shows at the Illinois State fair. I do like the Illinois State fair very much by the way.
Except for truly huge and obvious differences, I wonder if there is much value in trying to use political or cultural differences to explain the progress of a virus in a population. Crediting authoritarian versus more liberal regimes with more disease-fighting prowess. Or congratulating Minnesotans on their greater degree of docility in compliance with directives to account for relatively small differences in infection rates.
There are so many other factors. Demographic. Geographic. Transportation infrastructure. Sheer random chance. I don’t see this disease as ammunition for credible political or cultural claims.
SteveinMN
3-29-20, 10:46am
There are so many other factors. Demographic. Geographic. Transportation infrastructure. Sheer random chance. I don’t see this disease as ammunition for credible political or cultural claims.
That's fine. I don't mean to start a culture war here. As a non-native Minnesotan there are plenty of things to poke at here. I just posted a possibility.
Minnesota rules for a Certificate of Occupancy: house enclosed, with functional plumbing and electricity; adherence to local building code.
Wisconsin rules for a CO: does it have a roof? (that's about it; direct experience with friends of ours who built their own place and relied on a camp stove and a portapotty for months after getting their CO)
Just something to do. I'm between projects at the moment. Make it a big deal if you want to.
catherine
3-29-20, 10:51am
My neighbors in Vermont are strictly adhering to social distancing. Most of my summer neighbors here have homes in rural VT and they are in no way breaching social distancing by coming here to the island. They are taking hikes in the woods surrounding their homes, baking cupcakes with their kids, chopping wood.
I don't know if that's cultural or geographic, but there seems to be a mindset among the Vermonters to be isolated and be safe. A little bit of complaining, but they are making the most of it.
My NJ son/family seem to be similarly inclined. New Jersey is definitely on lock-down with police tape wrapped around our neighborhood playground. You probably need police tape to keep New Jersayans in place.
BTW, BIL has arrived in NJ. He wanted to drive up here to VT last week, and we had to tell him that because he flew from California, through an airport in Florida and into a NY area airport, he cannot come up to see us.
rosarugosa
3-29-20, 11:21am
Catherine, where is BIL staying? With your son?
catherine
3-29-20, 11:30am
Catherine, where is BIL staying? With your son?
Nooo.... In a Red Roof Inn. We feel very bad. He thought he'd have a golf job in NJ which was promised to him, but of course everything is now up in the air. My NJ son won't let him in to the house, of course. I don't know what's going to happen when things loosen up.
Teacher Terry
3-29-20, 11:42am
I enjoyed your perspective Steve. Catherine that’s too bad about your BIL.
ApatheticNoMore
3-29-20, 11:43am
In any large diverse population there will be people that comply and don't comply with guidelines (which are changing, now masks are recommended, but if you don't have one, you still can't get one). States that implement draconian measures will slow the spread (and still these pale compared to what China did). Places like New York were probably early in the outbreak and had a lot working against them, lots of density, and a fully functional widely used public means of transportation. Most places people just drive.
Taking a walk in the woods sounds nice, but that might only work in Vermont, in any decent population center that is actually taking measures all parks are closed. So people literally walk in the middle of the streets these days half the time to avoid people on the sidewalk (and that's places lucky enough to have sidewalks). They may be run over by a car, but Covid 19 won't get them!
That's fine. I don't mean to start a culture war here. As a non-native Minnesotan there are plenty of things to poke at here. I just posted a possibility.
Minnesota rules for a Certificate of Occupancy: house enclosed, with functional plumbing and electricity; adherence to local building code.
Wisconsin rules for a CO: does it have a roof? (that's about it; direct experience with friends of ours who built their own place and relied on a camp stove and a portapotty for months after getting their CO)
Just something to do. I'm between projects at the moment. Make it a big deal if you want to.
My recent direct experience with Wisconsin’s Uniform Dwelling Code was much different. The standard State checklist ran seventeen pages, and the local government inspectors added a few items of their own.
Not that I would use regulatory complexity as a very useful benchmark.
dado potato
3-29-20, 11:54am
I believe the success of Minnesota in "bending the curve", the graph of positive tests per day, standardized for the size of population and the number of days since the first positive test, is important. There is not much difference in the hit rates (3/27/2020) comparing
MN .0273 441/16,129
ND .0312 94/3013
SD .0255 68/2660
However, Wisconsin .0609 989/16,221 is quite a bit higher than the other three states.
I have a hunch that the communications (choice of words and staging) by Gov Walz were more effective with the Minnesota audience than the communications by Gov Evers were with the Wisconsin audience. As more time passes, the 3/17/2020 messages of those two governors will decline in significance... other developments will be more salient.
I find it interesting that Wisconsin is not planning to postpone its primary, which other states have done.
iris lilies
3-29-20, 1:17pm
I find it interesting that Wisconsin is not planning to postpone its primary, which other states have done.
If they can get poll workers.that population tends to be old.And frankly, too many are doddery.
I am talking to DH about him retiring as an election manager at the polls. He has been doing it for 18 years, most of those years foregoing income in order to do this civic duty. I think its time to let the .gen Xers and millennials step forward. Its their world, its their blue city, it is their corrupt politicians. Let them take real action.
Teacher Terry
3-29-20, 1:57pm
Our primary will be mail in. IL, the younger people have jobs which is probably why the workers are old. However, I told my husband he couldn’t work it either. A friend of ours has a counseling business and said their receptionist quit with no notice. He told them he would do it. I told him not if he expected to keep living here:))
Not that I would use regulatory complexity as a very useful benchmark.
It isn't.
I'm sure there are plenty of factors involved; much as I like the job Tim Walz is doing in Minnesota, I don't know as I'd credit his words alone with the difference. I stand by my experience in living here for 35+ years. But I won't deny that others have had different experiences.
IMO, it's past time to go to universal mail-in ballots. It gets rid of the fraud, shenanigans, machine malfunctions (purposeful or not), malicious hacking, too few polling places designed to disenfranchise, driving, standing in line, etc. etc. For the federalists among us, do it on a state by state basis. But do it.
IMO, it's past time to go to universal mail-in ballots. It gets rid of the fraud, shenanigans, machine malfunctions (purposeful or not), malicious hacking, too few polling places designed to disenfranchise, driving, standing in line, etc. etc. For the federalists among us, do it on a state by state basis. But do it.
AGREED! I've done mail in voting on and off for a number of years.
Then we will start hearing about nefarious Republican postmasters.
AGREED! I've done mail in voting on and off for a number of years.
My County cancelled our Special Election just now, because even though we are all-mail-in, little old ladies still have to sit in a room and open the ballots, and they didn't want to deal with that.
Personally, I think they could have come up with a safe protocol.
Then we will start hearing about nefarious Republican postmasters.
You make a good point. ;)
iris lilies
3-29-20, 3:56pm
Our primary will be mail in. IL, the younger people have jobs which is probably why the workers are old. However, I told my husband he couldn’t work it either. A friend of ours has a counseling business and said their receptionist quit with no notice. He told them he would do it. I told him not if he expected to keep living here:))
Many young people have jobs that pay vacation days. DH did not. He lost income for times he did his civic duty serving jury duty, giving blood, working polls.
I think it’s cute that in our neighborhood we have many eager doobie wanting to do good because they’re not working at the moment so they want to run errands for seniors. Nice of them. We have 16 volunteers lined up in our neighborhood.
We have zero takers.
I would like to see the doobies carry on their volunteerism when this virus thing is over.
Teacher Terry
3-29-20, 5:06pm
I don't see anyone using vacation days to work at the polls but because they pay I am sure they will get some people.
happystuff
3-30-20, 9:48am
I sit the polls in my area. I am supposed to have my "class" in May for this year's elections. I'm thinking I will know by then what is going on, etc.
Edited to add: I didn't get vacation for those days. I had to take off without pay. It was a long day, but I really enjoyed it. (still a newbie at it - >8))
Anyone from Oregon? I hear it's been mail-in ballot only for several years and am told the residents love it!
Anyone from Oregon? I hear it's been mail-in ballot only for several years and am told the residents love it!
Not me, but my son lives in Portland and has reported on the process very favorably over the years.
Oregon was first on the West Coast to embrace total voting by mail; Washington followed, and California has it as an option now. The process has been closely monitored and found safe and effective. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/23/17383400/vote-by-mail-home-california-alaska-nebraska
From the article:
We don’t have to imagine, though: As I said, about a quarter of all votes were cast by mail in 2016. Absentee ballots have long been available in dozens of states. Since 2000, overall, about a quarter-billion votes have been cast by mail. Thus far, there have been virtually no documented incidents of coercion or abuse. As NVHC notes in a white paper on this subject, “Oregon has mailed-out more than 100 million ballots since 2000, with about a dozen cases of proven fraud.” That’s a 0.000012 percent rate of fraud.
Meanwhile, as the New York Times Magazine detailed in a recent piece, there’s basically no such thing as a hacker-proof electronic voting machine. The ones in use in the US certainly don’t fit that bill. “In the 15 years since electronic voting machines were first adopted by many states,” reporter Kim Zetter writes, “numerous reports by computer scientists have shown nearly every make and model to be vulnerable to hacking.”
dado potato
3-30-20, 12:58pm
Governor Larry Hogan of Maryland made televised statement this morning declaring a "Stay at Home Directive" effective at 8 PM tonight. This was followed by a "wireless emergency alert" to all the mobile devices in the state of MD.
Gov Hogan said that all previous executive orders remain in effect, but:We are no longer asking or suggesting that Marylanders stay home. We are directing them to do so. (There are still the exceptions for essential purposes). The statement included the Governor's warning about enforcement: Anyone who willfully and knowingly violates this order is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not exceeding $5,000, imprisonment not exceeding one year, or both.
It isn't.
I'm sure there are plenty of factors involved; much as I like the job Tim Walz is doing in Minnesota, I don't know as I'd credit his words alone with the difference. I stand by my experience in living here for 35+ years. But I won't deny that others have had different experiences.
One might also credit Wisconsin’s proximity to the Chicago hot spot versus the relative isolation of other states as a factor more important than theories inspired by local rivalries.
theories inspired by local rivalries.
Oh, that's no theory. Minnesota clearly is better. We've got receipts. :~)
Proximity to Chicago may make a difference, but Chicago has not been the hotbed of coronavirus that the West Coast and New York City have been. That geographic point is, simply, one of many, many plausible explanations for differences in this event. I just don't believe it's entirely down to random chance or some cocktail of events and situations. But we live in a post-factual era, so whatever anybody thinks something is, well, that's what it is.
I'm very impressed with Gov. Hogan. He broadcasts at 11 and the difference between his press conferences and the White House resident's are clear. Calm, sensible, science based, data based, no wishy washy maybes, just do it. Yet, he does not come across as vengeful or dictatorial, just smart! So, we're all inside except for medical, food and essentials. He closed the Ocean City boardwalk and beach last week to prevent fools. We are close to Washington which is predicted to be another hot spot. They've set up triage tents, testing sites near the hospitals. He's paying attention and making decisions. I am a staunch Democrat but would vote for him.
Our governor, "nasty*" Jay Inslee, announced yesterday that our infections seem to be leveling off (hard to tell with little testing) and our hospitals are in no immediate danger of being overwhelmed. Good news.
*per Trump
The Army Corps of Engineers is setting up a field hospital for NON-plague patients at the huge (2 million square feet or something like that) McCormick Place convention center on the Chicago lakefront. This is to keep the hospitals clear for the plague patients.
iris lilies
3-31-20, 10:42am
Our governor, "nasty*" Jay Inslee, announced yesterday that our infection levels seem to be leveling off (hard to tell with little testing) and our hospitals are in no immediate danger of being overwhelmed. Good news.*per TrumpI have been watching the. Umbers is WA and that was my impression.
IL's stay at home order was just extended to April 30.
KnownRogue
3-31-20, 5:13pm
Just got an emergency alert on my phone calling for health care professionals to sign up with the state.
Never seen anything like that in my life.
Just got an emergency alert on my phone calling for health care professionals to sign up with the state.
Never seen anything like that in my life.
Yep, got that too (NW Chicago suburbs).
Teacher Terry
3-31-20, 7:26pm
Is it going to be voluntary to do so or some sort of punishment? I don’t think people should be forced to work.
I cancelled my May vacation. I don't know if anything will be open then. As of tomorrow only people fighting the virus or displaced by it are allowed to rent a hotel room in my state, where I had planned to go (a couple hours from home). Also who knows if I will even be employed and have money to vacation.
I cancelled my May vacation. I don't know if anything will be open then. As of tomorrow only people fighting the virus or displaced by it are allowed to rent a hotel room in my state, where I had planned to go (a couple hours from home). Also who knows if I will even be employed and have money to vacation.
My vacation to dive off Michigan’s Thumb Memorial Day weekend is still scheduled. If the dive boat cancels, I’ll get a refund. I have reservations at a little mom and pop hotel that didn’t require a deposit since I stayed with them last year. So if I doesn’t happen, I won’t be out any money.
KnownRogue
3-31-20, 7:50pm
Is it going to be voluntary to do so or some sort of punishment? I don’t think people should be forced to work.
It didn't say SHALL or Report To, so I don't think its mandatory.
Heard some talk on another forum about folks still in the inactive reserve getting called back to military service to man medical tents, but I imagine that would be corpsmen or medics as well.
iris lilies
3-31-20, 9:39pm
Yep, got that too (NW Chicago suburbs).
We got that yesterday in St. Louis.
Here is an article about it in the Trib:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-retired-doctors-nurses-illinois-20200326-es6uyvifvfdstdciyhjy3xgeei-story.html
I think it's wonderful if they are willing to do it, but yeah, mostly they are in the older more susceptible bracket.
Teacher Terry
4-2-20, 8:16pm
Just saw a article a nurse wrote saying she lost 3 virus patients in 8 hours. All were talking and okay and dead 30 minutes later.
ApatheticNoMore
4-2-20, 8:57pm
Well the hospitals around here won't even take you if you are "ok" (aka think you have corona but aren't in a real bad way - well actually they won't even test you), you have to have difficulty breathing or they won't take you.
iris lilies
4-3-20, 9:52am
Fortunately, DH is through with deforestation at our Herman place. If he was still hacking at that 75’ tall tree I would tell him to stop right now because there is no provision to go to the hospital in case of accident. He can’t step foot off of our property because it that would be taking big city germs to the small hamlet and that is a big no-no.
Teacher Terry
4-3-20, 11:18am
Obviously the patients had bad enough symptoms to be admitted but no one thought they were dying. My ex and his wife have a house in a small town where they go to fish frequently. The kids and I told them to move there until the virus passes. They decided to do that.
My ex and his wife have a house in a small town where they go to fish frequently. The kids and I told them to move there until the virus passes. They decided to do that.
We have a lot of people coming out to our remote rural area to do just that. I guess they figure a place with no ICU beds, difficulty of access to higher-level medical care, and limited logistical support is a good idea....
In Ontario, the cottage country authorities are begging people not to come their cottages as the medical facilities are ill-equipped for providing care for Covid and these cottagers will be bringing the danger to the small communities - in verification of Bae's post. Some are seeing it as family vacation time rather than needed isolation.
Teacher Terry
4-3-20, 6:22pm
They are within 15 minutes of a hospital. It’s a house in a small town and since they are 74 with health conditions they want to be in a less crowded town. They had been staying there before this happened working on the house they recently bought. They intend to stay home.
Sonora Shepherd
4-3-20, 9:43pm
I remember reading about coronavirus during January. Just looked at my phone and on Jan. 31 I texted my son that Health and Human Services had declared coronavirus a public health emergency. There is something awfully wrong that we weren't ready to deal with this then.
I remember reading about coronavirus during January. Just looked at my phone and on Jan. 31 I texted my son that Health and Human Services had declared coronavirus a public health emergency. There is something awfully wrong that we weren't ready to deal with this then.
My County Emergency Management folks have been working on this since about then. It's not an easy problem.
flowerseverywhere
4-4-20, 4:45am
We have a lot of people coming out to our remote rural area to do just that. I guess they figure a place with no ICU beds, difficulty of access to higher-level medical care, and limited logistical support is a good idea....
I live in a large retirement community in Florida. My county has 26 ICU beds and 18 are occupied. The county Orlando is in has about 65% of their beds occupied. Every day hundreds of new cases are reported.
so far we seem to be increasing at a much slower rate than the hardest hit areas but this week there is a huge influx of grandkids with NY, Michigan, CT, NJ etc. license plates. I’m sure some flew. My own grandkids always come for Easter but they are isolating up north and would not dream of going anywhere.
The average age age in my county is 66. By that time, many have high blood pressure, diabetes, there are many smokers. Looks like a perfect storm is brewing. We are continuing our isolation but we have been invited to several gatherings at peoples houses this week. Idiocy.
happystuff
4-4-20, 10:53am
I remember hearing a news story of shore towns begging those whose shore houses were their 2nd homes to stay at their primary homes. The story was at least 4 maybe 6 weeks ago.
ApatheticNoMore
4-4-20, 11:08am
The thing is I'm not sure it matters, people can stay in an urban area, but hospitals in many urban areas are becoming completely overwhelmed, yes they are better equipped to start out with, and if this was normal times and one had a health problem that might matter, but with the level of overwhelm being reached I'm not sure it does. One can go to a more rural area but hospitals there will become overwhelmed.
The thing is I'm not sure it matters, people can stay in an urban area, but hospitals in many urban areas are becoming completely overwhelmed, yes they are better equipped to start out with, and if this was normal times and one had a health problem that might matter, but with the level of overwhelm being reached I'm not sure it does. One can go to a more rural area but hospitals there will become overwhelmed.
Tough call. We live within one air mile of four (!) hospitals. One has pretty much become an add-on clinic for the homeless shelter that is adjacent to it because their overhead is so high they can't make it as a regular hospital. Another has been on the ropes for a while (we just don't need three full-line hospitals within a mile of each other and this one is smaller, part of a smaller care system, and not a designated trauma center).
But they're there. If there were a widespread emergency (tornado, explosion, pandemic, etc.), there are more treatment choices available close to each other than, say, where my friend's cabin is located (NW Wisconsin), where the only hospital (much smaller than the "failing" one here) is about 30-40 minutes away by car (maybe a little faster by ambulance unless the roads are icy). Whether that balances out the greater population/demand here I couldn't say. But it seems it would be easier to share services and equipment because they're so close to each other.
Teacher Terry
4-4-20, 11:58am
One of our hospitals is converting part of the parking garage to hospital rooms.
iris lilies
4-4-20, 12:13pm
The thing is I'm not sure it matters, people can stay in an urban area, but hospitals in many urban areas are becoming completely overwhelmed, yes they are better equipped to start out with, and if this was normal times and one had a health problem that might matter, but with the level of overwhelm being reached I'm not sure it does. One can go to a more rural area but hospitals there will become overwhelmed.
Agreed, there is no one way to do this and no matter what anyone does, resources will be overwhelmed. The government cannot fix us. The government cannot save us. The government can only do some things to mitigate it.
I see the territoriality surrounding hospitals more as a “take care of your own “issue, like the locals in Hermann hold their fundraisers for their county hospital and sure my Hermann taxes go to support it but it’s primarily there for full-time residents of Gasconade County.There’s probably only one respirator on the premises anyway, just guessing.
I need to get sick in the hospital in St. Louis because I have chosen to live in St. Louis. And if I have to compete with the brother who is in the hospital for a gunshot wound (because this pandemic is not slowing down ghetto violence) then that was my choice, to live amount the riffraff.Thems the chances I take.
We actually live within one mile of at least nine hospitals. Big ones, VA, childrens, cancer, public, etc. They took one University housing complex and made it up for hospital employees to have safe rest places close to the hospitals.
This does not include the number of other big hospitals located in every quadrant of our city.
We have one hospital in the greater area and I don't know how many ICU beds there are. WE have 91000 people in our county, with 11 cases, and two dead total. One was infected in Florida and traveled back home, and one was a community spread infection.
Teacher Terry
4-4-20, 1:35pm
The Baltimore mayor asked the gangbangers to stop shooting each other because they cannot waste the beds on them. No clue if it helped.
Odd, since shelter-at-home went into effect, we haven't had as big a problem with people shooting at each other as we usually have. *shrug* I suppose we're no different up here than anywhere else.
Two days ago there were no cases in our town. Last night's map has 1-4 people in town have it. Probably 1, maybe as many as 4. Oh joy! It isn't us, but I was feeling not safe, but not endangered, either. Fleeting feeling that was. . .
The head of the largest hospital here announced on Monday that last weekend their ER had half as many patients as normal. Apparently, in addition to keeping down the spread of covid, stay at home also prevented a bunch of car accidents and other causes of typical ER visits.
Odd, since shelter-at-home went into effect, we haven't had as big a problem with people shooting at each other as we usually have. *shrug* I suppose we're no different up here than anywhere else.
I'm guessing they just switched to domestic violence.
I'm guessing they just switched to domestic violence.
Yeah, that doesn't hit the news here unless it's done in spectacular fashion.
I think we've mentioned/discussed this in one of these threads, but it will be really interesting to see what happens to a lot of marriages once enforced togetherness has had a few weeks to work its magic.
It's heartening to see businesses looking out for vulnerable groups. Costco announced a couple of weeks ago that they have senior hours from 8-9 am, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Our grocery store nearby has senior hours from 6-9 am on Tues and Thurs and they have also announced first responder and health care worker hours (1 hour before and 1 hour after posted store hours, everyday). Badges will be required. Target also has senior hour.
And on Nextdoor, lots of people posting about sewing masks for health care workers.
Our shelter in place order has been extended through May 5. That will make it two months for those of us who have been doing our best to shelter in place since local health authorities started urging us to do so. This great big city of over a million people has felt peaceful and quiet lately.
Our county's population is probably over 2 million and we've only had 39 deaths so far. I'm really hoping the numbers continue to stay low, though health authorities have been warning us that the next two weeks might bring in some very high numbers.
Jut saw in a frugal group on FB that Crocs is giving away shoes to healthcare workers.
https://www.crocs.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-crocs_us-Site/default/Default-Start?fbclid=IwAR2RJPVQh0xnwlvuopo0MtFHeW1DqdETlOi 0bdSamgOLCKR70JtvABk3waM
We had a third death at our hospital. That is out of twelve cases.
Wow, sorry to hear that, Tybee.
dado potato
4-5-20, 7:32pm
I'm guessing they just switched to domestic violence.
Around March 18 our county sheriff let the inmates out of the county jail, except those who had a history of domestic violence. He explained that he expected them to stay at home and out of trouble. So that left 14 inmates, and considerably more space between them. If the remaining inmates feel sorry for themselves, not being allowed to go home like the rest, well ... they might consider the logical consequences of inflicting domestic violence on their homes.
On a much larger scale, I saw a news report that the Sheriff of Bexar County TX, released 500 nonviolent offenders, reducing the jail population to 3,300.
A gal I know keeps sending me links about how this virus is not as big a deal as the common flu. I told her people have been social distancing and wearing masks. I told her the pinnacle has not been reached yet and to believe what you want. This is what happens when you have the president tell you he is not going to wear a mask and says states are asking for more equipment that is actually needed.
A gal I know keeps sending me links about how this virus is not as big a deal as the common flu. I told her people have been social distancing and wearing masks. I told her the pinnacle has not been reached yet and to believe what you want. This is what happens when you have the president tell you he is not going to wear a mask and says states are asking for more equipment that is actually needed.
Yes--What is readily apparent though, is that this moves fast enough to overwhelm local hospitals, and is likely to take more lives. We have only begun to dig into the mechanics and range of COVID 19. Not taking this seriously could kill you. Does your friend have any explanation for the disastrous situation in New York?
ToomuchStuff
4-6-20, 4:17am
A gal I know keeps sending me links about how this virus is not as big a deal as the common flu. I told her people have been social distancing and wearing masks. I told her the pinnacle has not been reached yet and to believe what you want. This is what happens when you have the president tell you he is not going to wear a mask and says states are asking for more equipment that is actually needed.
I would argue this is what happens when you compare statistics of the past, with incomplete statistics. This would have to be a thing of the past for a fair comparison. Around here, I've been hearing it more compared to a famous Kansas started flu, that has another name.
flowerseverywhere
4-6-20, 6:33am
https://www.pasteur.fr/en/research-journal/news/unseen-enemy-film-about-our-vulnerability-global-epidemics
watch this movie from 2017 if you can find it. It aired on a local station and was fabulous, in a frightening way. The unseen enemy are new viruses that jump from animals to humans, and quickly spread around the world. The biggest fear is an emerging virus that no human has any antibodies for.
The underlying second unseen enemy was the spread of propaganda and fake news via twitter and Facebook and blogs. Unfounded conspiracy theories, rumors, and outright lies.
It covered Zika, Ebola, and so on. Exactly on the mark as to what is happening today. The scientists tried to warn us. Doctors tried to warn us. Bill Gates has been trying to warn us and currently is funding vaccine research for this crisis.
Did you see Boris Johnson is in hospital and China is reopened and the tourist spots are packed.
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