View Full Version : Conavirus......
Chicken lady
1-17-21, 11:10am
Nationally about 85.9% of people wear seatbelts.
we still have traffic fatalities.
So obviously seatbelts don’t work.
Nationally about 85.9% of people wear seatbelts.
we still have traffic fatalities.
So obviously seatbelts don’t work.
I wonder if there are anti-seatbelters who poke holes in them to damage their integrity and ‘stick it to the man!’? They’d probably also get super outraged if some famous person or politician made the news because they got a seatbelt ticket for not wearing one.
flowerseverywhere
1-17-21, 1:38pm
I live in Florida and the governor announced early on you did not have to be a resident to get the vaccine. My county has a big drive through appointment only site. After taking thousands of appointments they sent texts and emails last night oopsie. The 7,500 appointments this week alone are cancelled. No vaccines came. This is a huge Republican area where Trump held two huge rallies and Pence one. Trump loyalists are all over social media that they feel betrayed and they should get preferential treatment. The benefit of living with a lot of seniors is everyone has those socialist/communist programs of Medicare and Medicaid.
I got my vaccination a few weeks ago. I went to Orlando where they were scheduling in blocks of 20,000-30,000 at a pop and the scheduling was on a difficult to get into and navigate website. Very efficient but it was only car accessible. As we were in line I did not see any people of color except those that were directing traffic or giving vaccines in true southern tradition.
We have had very low virus in our area but post Thanksgiving it started creeping up. Christmas week until after New Years was full of families and friends from up North maskless, super excited about all the restaurants, bars and theme parks being open. Now our hospitals are bulging and deaths are skyrocketing. My friends who have social distanced/masked and spent the holidays alone are not infected that we know of.
so I am meditating/praying for the safety of our medical workers and lawmakers. I just cannot grasp how anyone would not do anything they could to preserve the health and well being of everyone around them.
I posted just about one year ago about how I agreed with Bae, 0ne of the first posters on this matter about how bad this would be.
I am very sad about the discontent and hate I see all around me. About the fact that people actually thought they could overthrow the government. About the people who have suffered and died. But especially about the fact that our country has so many science deniers. Wash your hands, wear a mask, socially distance, eat right, get exercise and if you can, stay away from crowds and people. We are facing a raging pandemic, what scientists have warned us of for years.
Flowerseverywhere I think you hit the nail on the head with the link between holiday travel and surges. Mask wearing rates have been at constant rates where I am and do not explain these recent upticks. Travel does.
Biden's mask mandate will not do anything either. It only applies to Federal land. I can see a corollary to my state, where anyone in public has to wear a mask regardless (though the governor himself does not in his news conferences). So I can foresee a situation where if I am hiking by myself in the backwoods of some national park I will be required to wear a mask. It's the same old failed solutions. There is no vision for new solutions like shutting down passenger air travel (except for medical temps like traveling ICU nurses.) Biden has no vision, his whole message is a return to the past from his programs to his appointees.
I wrote the other day about the escape mutant. Its name is E484K. Here is another reference to it since I know some people do not trust CNN:
https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/e484k-mutation-might-make-covid-strain-vaccine-resistant
I saw more on TV today about how the South African mutant, now also found in Brazil, is much worse than the UK variant. Some countries are banning all travel to and from South America. Meanwhile in his first 100 days in office one thing Biden wants to do is remove travel bans.
That Biden travel ban removal has to do with Trump bans on travel from Muslim countries.
It wasn’t just the travel over thanksgiving and Christmas. It was the unmasked indoor house parties/dinners. Many many people like a friend of mine. He traveled to AZ for new years to visit his favorite aunt/uncle. Fifteen people at an indoor New Years party without masks. Guess how many came down with covid. Yep, all fifteen, all within a day or two of each other.
It turns out countries like South Korea and Japan have low covid deaths not because they are used to wearing masks but because few of their residents are obese:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-obesity-death-rates-uk-global-who-a9612626.html
I was happy to read the UK is going to try to tackle covid by addressing obesity. If we had done this from the beginning people would have had almost a year to lose weight and we could have saved a lot of lives.
ApatheticNoMore
1-17-21, 5:15pm
Japan
Confirmed Cases
324,942
Deaths
4,261
South Korea
Confirmed Cases
72,340
Deaths
1,249
U.S.
Confirmed Cases
23,758,855
Deaths
395,851
And here is just California
Confirmed Cases
2,959,863
Deaths
33,408
John Hopkins. Any questions? But go on with hating fat people. As if healthier people don't just get long covid instead of dying from it in some cases. WINNING! Although they may differ in how they classify deaths and cases, notice that there is NO CLEAR TREND in deaths per confirmed cases.
Masks: https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818
Successful counties (one of which is mine) that don’t listen to people like Yppej: https://247wallst.com/healthcare-economy/2021/01/13/covid-19-these-are-the-only-80-counties-where-no-one-had-died/
John Hopkins. Any questions? But go on with hating fat people. As if healthier people don't just get long covid instead of dying from it.
I know quite a few people who've had it, quite sadly. Obesity? 1. Most are athletic.
Wear a mask. Social Distancing. No crowds. No combining households if everyone hasn't been isolating.
It is so sad that this country cannot get these guidelines through their thick skulls. I never dreamed we'd be in crisis 10 months after this shit started. But "ma rights" come first. Sigh.........................
If everyone who came into contact with smokers got lung cancer at the same rate as the smokers then, yes, they would be hated as much as you hate fat people and masks.
ApatheticNoMore
1-17-21, 6:00pm
If a disease was spreading that disproportionately killed smokers that could be controlled (theoretically this is a failed state here I realize) through measures like masks and other public health measures, as is clearly shown by countries like South Korea, but wasn't, my first target would not be: the smokers, but the failure to control the spread of the disease. Lung cancer is directly caused by smoking not by a contagious disease that should be controlled by public health measures if public health actually has any meaning At All beyond individual health. If a miracle treatment came out for lung cancer, I wouldn't say, those smokers deserve to die, don't let them have it. But that's what I view failure to control covid as.
But then of course one steps back one step and looks at the social determinants of health, ok with death from covid it's race and poverty which also correlates with obesity but also is an independent risk factor for covid even when that's adjusted for. With smoking maybe the same, but it's clearly adverse childhood experience as well that drives smoking and drug usage, this is clear. It doesn't mean smoking doesn't cause cancer.
dado potato
1-18-21, 10:59am
Some notes on Coronavirus vaccination in Israel.
About one-fourth of the population of Israel has received at least the first of two doses. The rate of vaccination in Israel is about 8 times greater then the USA, and 50 times the world average. The government's stated goal is to vaccinate the entire population (9.3 million people) by the end of March.
One week after receiving the second dose, Israelis will be issued "green passports", which will enable them to travel abroad, participate in one-time events where they would mingle with people, go into restaurants, and avoid quarantine after exposure to a person infected by the COVID-19 virus. The immunity passport expires after 6 months, but I gather that it will be renewable. Similar immunity passports are under consideration in the UK, Estonia, Italy, and Chile.
Israel has an agreement with Pfizer, a multinational manufacturer of one of the vaccines, to share medical and statistical information about Israelis; and the CEO of Pfizer has promised to speed up deliveries to Israel in the weeks ahead. Coincidentally, Pfizer has told European countries and Canada that they will temporarily reduce deliveries of vaccine. The company said the reduction will be temporary, as their manufacturing plant in Belgium "is scaling up production".
catherine
1-18-21, 11:13am
Masks: https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818
Successful counties (one of which is mine) that don’t listen to people like Yppej: https://247wallst.com/healthcare-economy/2021/01/13/covid-19-these-are-the-only-80-counties-where-no-one-had-died/
Thank you for posting this! I also live in one of those 80 counties.
I question the accuracy of that list. My mom's hometown, Greeley County Kansas, is on the list. But reality is that they have had more than twice as many cases as it shows, with roughly 8% of their population having tested positive and probably an equal or greater number who had it but were never tested. Two people have died but for whatever reason Kansas isn't counting them.
dado potato
1-18-21, 3:13pm
Public Health authorities in various parts of the USA have been "in the news" recently, talking about shortages of either vaccine or trained staff to administer inoculation.
North Central Washington State
Ohio
Maine
Northern Michigan
Southwest Florida
Pinal County AZ
Mississippi
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Iowa
Southern California
New York City
Niagara Falls NY
Paterson NJ
Kansas City
etc.
I did a Bing Search of news articles about "vaccine shortage". Frequently, Public Health Officials are telling the press that people should be patient about waiting to hear when vaccination will be available to them. "Don't panic." "Don't call and ask. We are getting more than 200 calls a day."
ApatheticNoMore
1-18-21, 3:24pm
They don't get to talk about vaccine shortages when vaccine sits unused, if they have received a certain amount and only administered some fraction of it (less than 30% in Cali), yea nah. There may be some shortage in people to administer it. No Planning At All ...
The IL gov has said that prisoners, regardless of age or health conditions, are going to be prioritized in the next round of vaccinations. People on a mainstream local news/talk station are up in arms about this.
The IL gov has said that prisoners, regardless of age or health conditions, are going to be prioritized in the next round of vaccinations. People on a mainstream local news/talk station are up in arms about this.
Have prison staff already been vaccinated?
I tend to agree that people who are all jammed into small areas with no chance of escape--like meat packers--should be vaccinated sooner than, for exanple, I am.
I don’t know if the prison staff have already be vaccinated. Was planning on researching that tonight.
Some notes on Coronavirus vaccination in Israel.
About one-fourth of the population of Israel has received at least the first of two doses. The rate of vaccination in Israel is about 8 times greater then the USA, and 50 times the world average. The government's stated goal is to vaccinate the entire population (9.3 million people) by the end of March.
One week after receiving the second dose, Israelis will be issued "green passports", which will enable them to travel abroad, participate in one-time events where they would mingle with people, go into restaurants, and avoid quarantine after exposure to a person infected by the COVID-19 virus. The immunity passport expires after 6 months, but I gather that it will be renewable. Similar immunity passports are under consideration in the UK, Estonia, Italy, and Chile.
Israel has an agreement with Pfizer, a multinational manufacturer of one of the vaccines, to share medical and statistical information about Israelis; and the CEO of Pfizer has promised to speed up deliveries to Israel in the weeks ahead. Coincidentally, Pfizer has told European countries and Canada that they will temporarily reduce deliveries of vaccine. The company said the reduction will be temporary, as their manufacturing plant in Belgium "is scaling up production".
But they are not vaccinating any of the Palestinians in their occupied territories.
But they are not vaccinating any of the Palestinians in their occupied territories.
The trolling never ends.
Here is an article by Human Rights Watch about lack of Palestinian vaccination:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2021/01/17/israel-provide-vaccines-occupied-palestinians
No surprise, a woman flying from the UK has brought the UK variant to my state now. Here comes another uptick, but the governor made sure to mandate I wear a mask hiking by myself while doing nothing about air travel. What a loser Charlie Baker is!
ETA To get to Logan Airport you have to go through a tunnel. Close the tunnel and close the subway blue line stop, it is not difficult.
while doing nothing about air travel.
A state cannot regulate international travel.
iris lilies
1-19-21, 9:11am
The newspaper from Hermann, a small town of 2500, has a column every week listing the known exposures to coronavirus.December 7 at the village market grocery store. December 14 at Hermanoff winery. Etc etc. Small town news at its best.
Have prison staff already been vaccinated?
I tend to agree that people who are all jammed into small areas with no chance of escape--like meat packers--should be vaccinated sooner than, for exanple, I am.
As far as I can tell, corrections officers and those such as sheriff’s deputies who serve as CO in country jails have NOT been vaccinated yet, per the articles I found. It seems they might be vaccinated in the same distribution phase as the prisoners, but that’s not a given. Staff have priority over prisoners, IMO.
I saw on the news at the current rollout rate it will take 7 to 8 years to vaccinate the US population. You read that right, years not months. My octogenarian parents cannot get a vaccine. Inmates are getting them instead of people who worked hard, paid taxes, and obeyed the law their whole lives. In over 60 years of driving my father got one speeding ticket and my mother not even that.
There is one giant football stadium set up to be a vaccination center, far from where they live and very intimidating even if/when they will be able to go there. Every city and town has a senior center. The centers have freezers because they serve meals. It should be easy to give vaccines locally.
My parents may not live another 7 to 8 years. I am starting to think maybe I should visit with them indoors, hug them, etc. Think of all the people who didn't visit their parents because nursing homes forbade it and they died anyways. It gives me thought.
Yppej, if you can visit your parents safely, then that would be good.
I guess you guys are the only ones who can figure that out, what is a safe way to be in each other's pod.
My mom is eager to visit, my dad is more cautious. I will probably wait until she brings it up again and then get feedback from everyone.
I would take a day off work to take them to the stadium if they could get in, but it is only for first responders. I tried calling 211 at lunchtime but it goes to the United Way in the county where I work which is not the county they live in and the lines were busy.
Tried calling the IRS multiple times on an unrelated issue and was not even given the option to hold but a recording told me to call back. People are jamming up the lines calling about stimulus payments.
Hoping my 24+ year old furnace holds up as that is the latest item in short supply as manufacturers are short staffed with quarantining employees.
I feel like the whole world is falling to pieces, not to mention rising hunger, child brides, etc in poorer parts of the world. The economic impact is going to dwarf the loss of life. 1/10th of 1 percent of the US population has died but 100% have been impacted economically.
Yppej, if you can visit your parents safely, then that would be good.
I guess you guys are the only ones who can figure that out, what is a safe way to be in each other's pod.
I hope for her parents’ sake that she doesn’t wear a mask with holes punched in it if she does go visit them.
I hope for her parents’ sake that she doesn’t wear a mask with holes punched in it if she does go visit them.
But, wouldn't that be more comfortable?
Everybody has to do what they have to do with respect to being with family during the pandemic. Sometimes you don't have the greatest choices.
My heart goes out to you on the subject of wanting and needing to be with your parents, Yppej. Good luck with figuring out a safe way to be with your loved ones.
Thank you Tybee. Now that it's winter we have tried parking parallel to each other with the car windows rolled down and talking, but this past weekend there was a biting cold wind and after about 10 minutes my dad couldn't take it anymore. We tried cranking up the heat in the cars but then it is hard to hear each other over the wind plus he is very hard of hearing.
I have not been seeing my brothers either. Everyone in my family can stay home but me. I have to go to work five days a week. This pod idea is fine for those privileged enough to get to work from home, but not for essential workers where face time at the jobsite is mandatory.
Teacher Terry
1-20-21, 11:50am
Considering Biden’s plan to vaccinate 100 million people in 100 days your parents will most likely get the vaccine soon. Fauci said it’s a challenging task but possible.
ApatheticNoMore
1-20-21, 12:56pm
Not everyone can get the vaccine at once, oh well, sure the rollout has been somewhat incompetent, but regardless not everyone could get the vaccine at the same time anyway.
I have seen literally noone inside without a mask but bf and it hurts a lot. Other than our moms none of us are going to be vaccinated anytime soon. Wait for single dose vaccines? Well may as well, going to be waiting awhile regardless. Whether you work from home although it's partly about the job, depends in part on whether you have good bosses or not, my bf could work from home as it's basically office work, but has to go to the office (hey working for Trump supporters). Luck of the draw of whatever employers one ended up with before this all started.
I am continuing to read about England in WW2. In Churchill"s first year in office 5,626 children died from German bombs.
In the US as of mid November, the latest data I could find, 133 US children have died of covid:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/more-1-million-children-u-s-have-had-covid-19-n1247913
Keep in mind the population is larger now than then, and the US is a much bigger country.
This reinforces my point that the media stirs people up as if covid were the hugest catastrophe ever. It is not. It is an opportunistic infection that in the vast majority of cases kills the elderly and those in poor health.
The bombings also had property damage as well as death.
Covid is real and not a hoax, but the fear it generates is in striking contrast to the strong spirit of bravery the English exhibited. I wonder if many Americans alive today would have pursued peace with Hitler like Quislings.
iris lilies
1-22-21, 10:19am
I am continuing to read about England in WW2. In Churchill"s first year in office 5,626 children died from German bombs.
In the US as of mid November, the latest data I could find, 133 US children have died of covid:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/more-1-million-children-u-s-have-had-covid-19-n1247913
Keep in mind the population is larger now than then, and the US is a much bigger country.
This reinforces my point that the media stirs people up as if covid were the hugest catastrophe ever. It is not. It is an opportunistic infection that in the vast majority of cases kills the elderly and those in poor health.
The bombings also had property damage as well as death.
Covid is real and not a hoax, but the fear it generates is in striking contrast to the strong spirit of bravery the English exhibited. I wonder if many Americans alive today would have pursued peace with Hitler like Quislings.
I agree with you that our resident virus does not present nearly the horrifying limits and destruction to life that .wWII did.
I mean, even here in the U.S. there were restrictions, limiting activities, etc.
I remember some of you being very dismissive when I raised concerns about the global impact of covid - things like rising rates of starvation and people selling their daughters as child brides because they could not feed them. So you must be really angry that Biden has rejoined WHO - the organization that recently said that older people around the world should be vaccinated before younger Americans are. After all, it's all about you and yours, right?
Salad spinners. And ice cream sundaes.
ApatheticNoMore
1-22-21, 1:53pm
I remember some of you being very dismissive when I raised concerns about the global impact of covid - things like rising rates of starvation and people selling their daughters as child brides because they could not feed them. So you must be really angry that Biden has rejoined WHO - the organization that recently said that older people around the world should be vaccinated before younger Americans are. After all, it's all about you and yours, right?
That's you. Your biggest complaint early in the pandemic was you couldn't buy shoes. You didn't want to take covid seriously because you think you have had it and are thus immune. All your reactions to covid seem to have stemmed from this real or perhaps imagined immunity.
You think prisoners don't deserve to be vaccinated. I think they are human beings like anyone else and if there is a case to be made for vaccinate them based on outbreaks then go ahead. Of course if there is more case for older folks then do that. I'm trying to get those I know who are eligible vaccinated ASAP, but I'm not the one complaining about how it's unfair this or that group is going first when there are simply too few vaccines to vaccinate everyone immediately (I'll complain if vaccines are sitting in warehouses). Although prisoners are not prioritized here.
I saw on BBC News that China is telling its people the virus originated in the US, the US tells people it originated in China. Every country wants to make itself look good. I don't think this WHO thing is going to work.
frugal-one
1-22-21, 3:29pm
I remember some of you being very dismissive when I raised concerns about the global impact of covid - things like rising rates of starvation and people selling their daughters as child brides because they could not feed them. So you must be really angry that Biden has rejoined WHO - the organization that recently said that older people around the world should be vaccinated before younger Americans are. After all, it's all about you and yours, right?
troll
And Boris Johnson and the UK health officials announce their variant is more lethal. But we couldn't stop the jet set from flying and keep it out. The South African variant is bad news too - vaccines don't work as well with it. People flying around the world are our problem, not someone trying on a pair of jeans. Surfaces don't spread covid, people who travel around the world do. Our leaders are so stupid.
It is fascinating seeing the Russian troll farm at work.
Chicken lady
1-22-21, 9:19pm
Wait a minute! People here have disagreed about ice cream sundaes?!
is this a spelling issue?
I’m appalled.
rosarugosa
1-22-21, 9:43pm
Salad spinners. And ice cream sundaes.
Just don't put the sundae in the spinner. It won't go well.
iris lilies
1-22-21, 9:56pm
Just don't put the sundae in the spinner. It won't go well.
good one!
Just don't put the sundae in the spinner. It won't go well.
Great way of making smoothies though!
Chicken lady
1-22-21, 10:11pm
Might also work well for those who object to nuts....>8)
Just don't put the sundae in the spinner. It won't go well.
Might be a way to make a shake that doesn’t require a blender. Multipurposing the salad spinner and getting rid of the blender. Seems like simple living at it’s best!
Today's news included images of people indoors crowded together buying lottery tickets (and not wearing masks if that matters to you). Earlier this week big caravans of unmasked migrants heading to our border, walking shoulder to shoulder, hoping Biden will let them wait the outcome of their asylum hearings in the US. Cut to commercial break and the Florida Keys is running an ad encouraging people to come on down for vacations.
And Boris Johnson and the UK health officials announce their variant is more lethal. But we couldn't stop the jet set from flying and keep it out. The South African variant is bad news too - vaccines don't work as well with it. People flying around the world are our problem, not someone trying on a pair of jeans. Surfaces don't spread covid, people who travel around the world do. Our leaders are so stupid.
Gotta hand it to you, you're absolutely relentless.
It is fascinating seeing the Russian troll farm at work.
I wonder about trolls, knee deep on social media and mostly obvious. They must get paid, but by whom? Russia, I know, but lots of them seem to live elsewhere.
Is anyone's mind changed after reading their off-the-wall swill?
I wonder how you become a Russian troll. Seems like an easy second income stream. You can do it from home and pick your own hours. I wonder how much they make.
catherine
1-23-21, 10:43am
A couple of weeks ago I learned that a high school friend of mine died from COVID. He was my age, 68. I had on my to-do list for today to send a sympathy card to his wife. I just learned that she passed away last week.
Two people who had children and grandchildren. They are just two people out of 400,000 that have died--people who shouldn't have had to die, and were it not for a disease that has not been adequately controlled in this country, they would both be alive today.
Take a look at the NYT today. One year post-COVID, Wuhan is in full swing and back to normal, while we stutter and start into Year Two with thousands of people dying every day. Almost 4,000 just yesterday. Jay and Karen Curtis from Lexington KY were just two of them. I pray for their families, and for political leadership that cares.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/22/world/asia/wuhan-china-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
I wonder how many other problems will be found to have been ignored or made worse by the last administration, as vaccine distribution was. With government bureaus decimated, I imagine quite a few. The new crew is in for a monumental challenge.
ApatheticNoMore
1-23-21, 11:00am
And what would one give to live somewhere they had controlled it and have life back? Nearly everything.
But a lot of countries failed to one degree or another. But of course Trump made everything worse, there was a distinct upswing in people out and about after Trump started tweeting his "liberate" garbage. Even in a blue state? Yep. It's hardly that everyone is a Trumper, it's just that what was a shared effort ...
Is anyone really shocked at the coup when so many local public health officials quit out of threats to their lives, due to Trump and what he encouraged.
I wonder how you become a Russian troll. Seems like an easy second income stream. You can do it from home and pick your own hours. I wonder how much they make.
Most Russian trolls are unpaid folks who simply amplify the message unwittingly. They are called "useful idiots".
iris lilies
1-23-21, 1:19pm
I wonder how you become a Russian troll. Seems like an easy second income stream. You can do it from home and pick your own hours. I wonder how much they make.
jep, I think you’ve got some credentials that would interest the Ruskies. Send them your resume I.e. the posts on this forum.
jep, I think you’ve got some credentials that would interest the Ruskies. Send them your resume I.e. the posts on this forum.
The downside is people who engage in 21st century McCarthyism will attack me - correction, more of them will attack me than currently are. You know the type - always right, claim they are heroes in the health, emergency services or social services field, love to drop names of the famous people they have met to bolster their supposed credentials, the insufferable folks with superiority complexes, to the point where their spouses turn elsewhere for normal human interaction.
The downside is people who engage in 21st century McCarthyism will attack me - correction, more of them will attack me than currently are. You know the type - always right, claim they are heroes in the health, emergency services or social services field, love to drop names of the famous people they have met to bolster their supposed credentials, the insufferable folks with superiority complexes, to the point where their spouses turn elsewhere for normal human interaction.
Impressive. For the first time ever I’m actually considering blocking someone on this forum. Congrats on winning the ‘biggest a$$hole’ award.
The downside is people who engage in 21st century McCarthyism will attack me - correction, more of them will attack me than currently are. You know the type - always right, claim they are heroes in the health, emergency services or social services field, love to drop names of the famous people they have met to bolster their supposed credentials, the insufferable folks with superiority complexes, to the point where their spouses turn elsewhere for normal human interaction.
ROFL
rosarugosa
1-23-21, 1:41pm
Impressive. For the first time ever I’m actually considering blocking someone on this forum. Congrats on winning the ‘biggest a$$hole’ award.
Yeah, that was pretty low. I just "ignore" the old-fashioned way.
If the shoe fits sanctimonious people can wear it.
If the shoe fits sanctimonious people can wear it.
Clearly you didn't need to go out shoe shopping at the beginning of the pandemic. Your shoes fit just fine it would seem.
Two more relatives of mine got covid. Despite warnings from family members they insisted on vacationing in Florida and caught it there. They live in NC. They feel weak but at this point are not hospitalized. Both are real jetsetters. Their Christmas letters are always about all the places they went during the year. Both are over 65 but they did not let covid cramp their lifestyle.
Chicken lady
1-23-21, 3:21pm
You know the type - always right, claim they are heroes in the health, emergency services or social services field, love to drop names of the famous people they have met to bolster their supposed credentials, the insufferable folks with superiority complexes, to the point where their spouses turn elsewhere for normal human interaction.
I think that guy got blocked from social media.
iris lilies
1-23-21, 3:28pm
If the shoe fits sanctimonious people can wear it.
This is why I don’t block you because sometimes you make me laugh. This made me laugh.
It is all about me.
iris lilies
1-23-21, 4:01pm
I think that guy got blocked from social media.
also a good line!
keep ‘em coming, folks.
You know the type - always right, claim they are heroes in the health, emergency services or social services field, love to drop names of the famous people they have met to bolster their supposed credentials, the insufferable folks with superiority complexes
You seem really threatened by competence and people who have done more with their life than you have chosen to do. You realize you could always go back to school/get more credentials/try for a more interesting job/do those things you've always dreamed of doing-being-going to if you choose to. But its easier to snipe.
There has been some discussion here of Israel. I found the end of this article interesting. If you come from a hot spot and go there you have to quarantine for 14 days in a government approved motel. You cannot say, "I'm going to quarantine at home." They watch you.
https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/south-africa/2021-01-22-netherlands-and-dubai-ban-travellers-from-sa-due-to-covid-variant/
Since the US can't handle this type of monitoring (we can't even handle the testing and vaccinations) we need an international travel ban.
I heard on the radio today some doctors finally admitting that a mask does not stop covid. Their solution? Everyone should wear two masks at the same time. Nothing like doubling down on a bad solution!
If this idea gains currency I expect an increase in deaths from suffocation.
Teacher Terry
1-25-21, 10:37am
Everyone I know is now wearing double masks and we are all still alive.
frugal-one
1-25-21, 11:13am
Everyone I know is now wearing double masks and we are all still alive.
Ditto
I couldnt find anything about coffee reimbursements from the government, but I did find this article that I thought was interesting. Apparently some people are going to be hit with paying state taxes to both the state where their employer is and also the state where they have been living/working during the pandemic.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/working-home-due-covid-double-tax-hit/story?id=74864155
happystuff
1-25-21, 1:36pm
I couldnt find anything about coffee reimbursements from the government, but I did find this article that I thought was interesting. Apparently some people are going to be hit with paying state taxes to both the state where their employer is and also the state where they have been living/working during the pandemic.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/working-home-due-covid-double-tax-hit/story?id=74864155
Just gotta laugh - wouldn't you know it, that would be me.
The highly contagious Brazilian variant is now in Minnesota, brought by someone on a flight from Brazil weeks after other countries banned flights from South America.
gimmethesimplelife
1-26-21, 9:18am
It's getting worse in Arizona. I pretty much.limit myself to work and home only these days. I'm getting older and slowing down and grocery retail is enough potential exposure to the virus.
My activism has declined of late - now is not a time to.protest en masse - too many virus mutations running around. I feel bad about.this but I don't want to add to my virus risk factors giving the elderly people in.my life. Rob
Interesting watching the Chicago mayor’s press conference this afternoon. The teacher’s union has dug their heels in and are refusing to return to in person school. Don’t want to go back until all are vaccinated or some such. Some pre-K and special ed (I think) teachers have been back for about three weeks. Things have gone well. The Catholic schools have been back since the fall and no big issues.
The mayor and head of the health department are going on about high numbers of cases in black and brown communities and about inequity of those communities getting their jabs, yet the news is also saying that those communities have high numbers of people refusing to get the shot, even health care workers. That’s not just in Chicago but across the US. Biden was even asked about the Chicago teachers a day or two ago.
I heard another fanatical medical "expert" on the local news say that even if every single American got a vaccine it would not end the pandemic and everyone would still need to wear masks. Talk about a disincentive to get vaccinated. It is a hassle, painful, and has side effects for some. Why go through that for nothing?
Talk about a disincentive to get vaccinated. It is a hassle, painful, and has side effects for some. Why go through that for nothing?
I will assure you, being intubated is far more painful, with more side effects, and is more of a hassle for all.
gimmethesimplelife
1-30-21, 11:22am
🇨🇦 is now banning flights to/from Mexico and the Carribean (sp?) and is debating blocking Canadian nationals from leaving the country as Australia has done. Rob
happystuff
1-30-21, 11:35am
I heard another fanatical medical "expert" on the local news say that even if every single American got a vaccine it would not end the pandemic and everyone would still need to wear masks. Talk about a disincentive to get vaccinated. It is a hassle, painful, and has side effects for some. Why go through that for nothing?
Really - why bother putting the effort in at all to stay alive and help keep others alive? Such a hassle. And for nothing.
:(
Really - why bother putting the effort in at all to stay alive and help keep others alive? Such a hassle. And for nothing.
:(
According to several doctors, the vaccine may not keep you from getting COVID, but it's likely to keep you alive and out of the hospital. That's a pretty good deal, as far as I'm concerned.
Teacher Terry
1-30-21, 12:55pm
Totally agree Jane!!
I have been intubated after respiratory failure. I would prefer to die if it comes to that again. But everybody has to make their own decisions, and hope and pray that we can die of old age in our beds at night. I try to follow whatever seems best at any given moment to achieve that end.
I think everybody's heart is in the right place, and everybody wants to achieve a peaceful death. I wish nothing but health and happiness to everyone here.
frugal-one
1-30-21, 4:04pm
���� is now banning flights to/from Mexico and the Carribean (sp?) and is debating blocking Canadian nationals from leaving the country as Australia has done. Rob
Wrote to my Canadian friends and here is what they said:
Partly true! As of today all flights to Mexico and the Caribbean (sun destinations) FROM Canada are cancelled until April 30th. Anyone now in those places will have to return in the next week or so. This will prevent winter and spring break "tropical getaways" by Canadians. Also, tightening of entrance and quarantine restrictions are in place or coming. Anyone on international flights INTO Canada, need negative covid tests within 2-3 days before boarding the flight. Or they will not be allowed to board at all. Also, anyone arriving IN Canada, will soon require a test done upon arrival at the airport and a stay at their own expense in a "quarantine" location until they get results. If neg. they are free to go, if pos. they will be immediately placed in a designated government quarantine facility. Travel by Canadians heading out of Canada is strongly discouraged by having them face these new restrictions upon returning. (Making it more risky and complicated!) We'll see...
The new restrictions are in place to curb the new variants from coming in. We already have the UK ones here.
And one other thing, these rules will apply for FLYING. Land border crossings are still closed and restricted regarding non-essential travel. People who live/work on either side (like my niece), truckers with goods going back and forth, etc. can still cross BUT, new similar restrictions may be coming soon.
My coworker's sister is mad because she is going to Bermuda for vacation and will now need a covid test before flying home. Coworker is the one who flew with granny from Florida for the holidays then flew her back. Pandemic? What pandemic?
Just saw on the news video of the celebrations in Tampa last night. If I had to ask my magic 8 ball if there’s going to be a big surge in Tampa 2-3 weeks from now it would say ‘sources say highly likely’. Practically no one was wearing a mask, indoor bars packed, etc. The irresponsibility is stunning.
Something I was wondering about...tuned into the last few minutes of the Super Bowl and after the big win the players were hugging and slobbering all over each other. Are they all just special or immunized?
I suppose playing football you can’t really socially distance so why bother after the game. Watching football, on the other hand, can be done safely. Undoubtedly I wasn’t the only person who did so yesterday.
Most active athletes are tested every day, at the very least 3 times a week. That's why there are otherwise healthy competitors sitting out games. They're in quarantine due to contact tracing, exposure.
I have a friend (65-ish retiree) who lives in the Tampa region. She's in total denial. She's been meeting with groups of friends for cards, drinks, lunch, etc., for months. No masking, social distancing. Seems like it's just the culture down there. Pretty incredible.
Just learned my brother has COVID. He acquired it in a hospital setting, and he's staying there under their watch until his symptoms subside. So far, no serious symptoms, and his fever is going down.
If you are they praying kind, please pray for him.
Teacher Terry
2-10-21, 9:57pm
Catherine, I am so sorry. I hope he does well.
rosarugosa
2-11-21, 6:32am
I'm sorry, Catherine. I hope he is better soon.
Praying for him and in the hospital so they can monitor him, so that is positive.
happystuff
2-11-21, 11:02am
Catherine, have your brother in my prayers.
frugal-one
2-11-21, 1:17pm
So sorry to hear. In our thoughts.
ApatheticNoMore
2-11-21, 1:29pm
I hope he gets well soon
gimmethesimplelife
2-11-21, 2:55pm
Just learned my brother has COVID. He acquired it in a hospital setting, and he's staying there under their watch until his symptoms subside. So far, no serious symptoms, and his fever is going down.
If you are they praying kind, please pray for him.Prayers sent. Truly hope he gets better soon. Rob
We've learned a lot since the early days of this; He'll probably get the best care possible.
Hope he gets better and home soon.
dado potato
2-11-21, 7:20pm
Sending Healings Vibes in the direction of your brother, catherine.
3621
There are now 3 places that I am permitted to travel to without issue according to my state:
Hawaii, Puerto Rico and North Dakota
North Dakota let its mask mandate expire in January. Hmmmm.
happystuff
2-14-21, 8:59pm
catherine, how is your brother doing? I hope he is doing well.
My 26-year-old niece, a healthcare worker in Utah, just had a miscarriage and was diagnosed with COVID-19.
Fun times....
happystuff
2-14-21, 9:08pm
bae, I'm so sorry. My condolences to your niece and family.
My 26-year-old niece, a healthcare worker in Utah, just had a miscarriage and was diagnosed with COVID-19.
Fun times....
So sorry to hear.
early morning
2-14-21, 9:30pm
bae, so sorry. catherine, hope your brother is on the mend! our son was dignosed several weeks ago, as was the household he is in. He tells me he is [mostly] better. He can smell and taste some, and only has to stop once on a flight of steps. I have not seen him but he assures me all is well. I am not convinced.
Teacher Terry
2-14-21, 10:08pm
Bae, that’s so sad. I hope she does okay with the virus.
dado potato
2-15-21, 1:02am
bae, sorry to hear about your niece. Sending Healing Vibes her way.
3629
rosarugosa
2-15-21, 6:49am
I hope your niece is OK, Bae and I'm glad your son is doing better, Early.
frugal-one
2-15-21, 7:03am
So sorry to hear this news from you all. Thoughts and prayers ....
Health care workers, especially in a COVID ward, are really on the front lines. I hope she recovers fully.
I saw on the news that covid rates are the same in California, with its lockdowns and mask mandates, and Florida, which is without those restrictions. Hmmmm.
ApatheticNoMore
2-16-21, 9:39pm
1) Is the overcrowding situation similar in Florida to California? As it is widely believed that's is what drove most of it, the situation of 20 people living in a house.
2) cases are tricky because confirmed cases depends on availability of testing. CA has lower deaths per capita but that may be demographics.
3) Although I also simply do not trust Florida's numbers, probably classifying Covid as pneumonia or other respiratory illness. This is on the county basis and for deaths:
"Tens of thousands of Covid-19 deaths are going unreported in the U.S., with far more missed in counties that strongly supported former President Trump, according to new research.
The figures suggest that political leanings have helped suppress the true scale of deaths. In cases where the deceased didn’t have a Covid-19 test, a coroner or medical examiner has the freedom to interpret symptoms.
“There’s potentially latitude to make a judgement call conditional on a set of beliefs about Covid and whether it represents a serious problem or a hoax,” said Andrew Stokes, a professor of global health at Boston University School of Public Health who performed the analysis for STAT."
https://www.statnews.com/2021/01/25/undercounting-covid-19-deaths-greatest-in-pro-trump-areas-analysis-shows/
Hmmmm.
dado potato
2-18-21, 8:09pm
CDC is reporting on the incidence of variants of the COVID-19 virus in the USA.
I have been interested in the spread of the B.1.1.7 variant... which resulted in a lockdown in the UK.
It would appear the B.1.1.7 variant has been identified in several states, especially Florida.
http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/transmission/variant-cases.html
Interesting dado, because Florida is not faring worse than California. It almost makes me wonder if exposure to the virus builds immunity, and the lockdowns and other restrictions in California have made things worse. Certainly gradual exposure therapy has proved successful in treating allergens - why not viruses as well?
As the hygiene hypothesis indicates, leading too sheltered a life prevents us from developing robust immune systems.
People are breaking under the strain. A coworker went out to eat for the first time in over a year this past weekend. I have backslid into drinking coffee and eating too much again. The pandemic is becoming hopeless. We are now told by Fauci even a year after everyone who wants a vaccine gets one we are still supposed to wear masks. I personally don't see why everyone should suffer because some people don't feel like getting vaccines. Once everyone has access life should return to normal and everything be at your own risk. Enough of the depressing doom and gloom. We need hope and normalcy not scare tactics.
ETA I suppose it is different for people who have not been under strain because they have continued to travel, go out to eat, in the case of Dr Birx and Joe Biden go to family gatherings of multiple households etc. For them it has probably not been much of a strain. Ditto Ted Cruz flying internationally and blaming his kids. To the question Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader? apparently his answer is no.
ApatheticNoMore
2-22-21, 9:42pm
The strain is hard, but frankly it's the strain of the pandemic itself, projected on to whatever I guess.
I mean sure I'd LIKE to live in a country that crushed the pandemic like New Zealand ... but freedumb!!! Failing that I'd like to live somewhere vaccinating like Israel, but the U.S. performs average on the latter metric. I don't care what politicians lose their job over a pandemic handled badly because they have not done a good job at almost any level of government here. Heads should roll, the messaging was bad and hospitals were allowed to become overwhelmed. But the strain is a pandemic itself.
If someone wants to socialize inside with a bunch of people without masks, nothing is enforced, noone is really stopping that, except that there is a deadly virus that is stopping it, for those who don't want to get covid if they haven't yet. Duh.
Chicken lady
2-23-21, 7:02am
Yeppej,
I think that once everyone has access to effective vaccines life will return to normal.
my grandson is 7 months old. When do you think he will have access to vaccines?
hint - if we are lucky we can start vaccinating high school students in September. I think the clinical trial after them goes down to age 6.
also, when do you think everyone will have access to EFFECTIVE vaccines?
hint - many countries have not been able to start vaccinating yet. We keep offering the virus many opportunities to mutate by not controlling the spread with social and physical barriers.
happystuff
2-23-21, 10:47am
People are breaking under the strain. A coworker went out to eat for the first time in over a year this past weekend. I have backslid into drinking coffee and eating too much again. The pandemic is becoming hopeless. We are now told by Fauci even a year after everyone who wants a vaccine gets one we are still supposed to wear masks. I personally don't see why everyone should suffer because some people don't feel like getting vaccines. Once everyone has access life should return to normal and everything be at your own risk. Enough of the depressing doom and gloom. We need hope and normalcy not scare tactics.
ETA I suppose it is different for people who have not been under strain because they have continued to travel, go out to eat, in the case of Dr Birx and Joe Biden go to family gatherings of multiple households etc. For them it has probably not been much of a strain. Ditto Ted Cruz flying internationally and blaming his kids. To the question Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader? apparently his answer is no.
I'm sorry that you seem to be breaking under the strain and seem to feel so hopeless. Mask wearing is a reality and just like dealing with the other issues in your life (family, work, etc), you need to learn to deal with this. It has been suggested before and I will gently suggest it again... reach out - even electronically - for someone to talk to. There are many free organizations that are out there trying to help people deal with all of this. The pandemic isn't going anywhere and if you are looking for change, look to yourself.
Still wishing you the best.
Very interesting article about the timeline of Chicago/IL’s response.
https://www.chicagomag.com/chicago-magazine/march-2021/67-days-to-lockdown/
Texas is ending their mask mandate. Yay freedumb!
Texas is ending their mask mandate. Yay freedumb!
Isn't that stupid? We can finally see the light at the end of the COVID tunnel, so Abbott is going to encourage everyone to go out and spread their four new virulent variants all over the state--which hasn't even recovered from water and other infrastructure problems.
There are other places without a statewide mask mandate in which the majority of the state is under local mandates. Tennessee is one example. A state mandate is not the only way for maskers to impose their will on other people.
gimmethesimplelife
3-2-21, 6:52pm
Ay carumba. The fiance of the roofer down the street is ill with covid. I'm hoping for a wuick recovery for her. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-2-21, 6:55pm
Texas is ending their mask mandate. Yay freedumb!
I love, love, love Austin - but the majority of Texas? A very poor fit for me and how I think period - I just don't get such oblivious thinking in light of the realities of a global pandemic and 500K plus American deaths. Rob
ApatheticNoMore
3-2-21, 6:56pm
The business opening I could see, I'm not saying they should, but at least one could see some reasons, the removing mask mandates, is really just stupid for stupid's sake.
The sad thing about Texas is they aren't that red a state but Republicans have heavily gamed it to stay in power even as the state shifts purple to blue, so they have to put up with power failures and the failure of those in power. Some people may deserve as bad as government as they get in this country, but many don't, they just aren't able to exercise any power over it.
The latest idiocy of my governor - if you were born with diabetes or got it as a young child through no fault of your own (type 1) you are SOL when it comes to the vaccine but if you lead an unhealthy lifestyle and develop type 2 adult onset diabetes you can get your shot. So we have prison inmates, people who choose unhealthy behaviors like smokers, etc all at the head of the line. I bet next will be illegal immigrants "because they are more likely to live in multigenerational households" or some nonsense like that, and living your life following the rules and taking care of yourself doesn't mean anything.
Texas is ending their mask mandate. Yay freedumb!I think it joined a dozen or more other states without mask mandates, but it's Texas and a red state so somebody's bound to notice. Personally I think it's appropriate for states to leave that sort of thing for localities to decide but I understand the desire by some to make everyone subject to top down, one size fits all governance. I don't agree with it but I understand it.
If the people who are too stupid to wear masks were the only people they affected I’d agree that mask mandates are wrong. But that’s not the way the virus works.
And you’re right Alan. It’s not fair of me to single out Texas. Here’s the rest:
Alaska
Arizona
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Mississippi
Missouri
Nebraska
Oklahoma
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee.
gimmethesimplelife
3-2-21, 8:00pm
If the people who are too stupid to wear masks were the only people they affected I’d agree that mask mandates are wrong. But that’s not the way the virus works.
And you’re right Alan. It’s not fair of me to single out Texas. Here’s the rest:
Alaska
Arizona
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Mississippi
Missouri
Nebraska
Oklahoma
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee.I can't speak for every Arizonan - but I'm seeing the vast majority of people masking up in the Phoenix metro and not just in my neighborhood.
I have heard in rural Cochise County where my 1/3 acre is - a good half of the population is not wearing masks. Kind of decreases the value of the land for me. Rob
If the people who are too stupid to wear masks were the only people they affected I’d agree that mask mandates are wrong. But that’s not the way the virus works.
I think your implication that everyone is too stupid to do the right unless forced is probably off base, and there's not even evidence that a state's lack of coercion regarding masks prevents counties and municipalities from imposing their own requirements. I think that's how a free country works best, and it appears a lot of red states agree.
I can't speak for every Arizonan - but I'm seeing the vast majority of people masking up in the Phoenix metro and not just in my neighborhood.
I have heard in rural Cochise County where my 1/3 acre is - a good half of the population is not wearing masks. Kind of decreases the value of the land for me. Rob
Rob are you the owner of multiple properties? I never pictured you as a member of the propertied class.
have heard in rural Cochise County where my 1/3 acre is - a good half of the population is not wearing masks. Kind of decreases the value of the land for me. RobWhen I lived in Alaska back in the 70's, the population density of the state was less than one person per square mile, I think it's up to about 1.2 persons per square mile now. It appears that Cochise County Arizona's population density is approximately 20 people per square mile. Do you think it's appropriate for remote politicians to impose strict mandates in those places or is it better left locally?
gimmethesimplelife
3-2-21, 8:27pm
Rob are you the owner of multiple properties? I never pictured you as a member of the propertied class.I inherited a 1/3 acre lot outside Douglas, Arizona back in 2012. Cochise County assesses the value of the land at $600 and taxes run 8.50/yr.
Not exactly high end land lol but I love the climate zone this lot is located in - Sunset Western Garden Guide Zone 10. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-2-21, 8:29pm
When I lived in Alaska back in the 70's, the population density of the state was less than one person per square mile, I think it's up to about 1.2 persons per square mile now. It appears that Cochise County Arizona's population density is approximately 20 people per square mile. Do you think it's appropriate for remote politicians to impose strict mandates in those places or is it better left locally?Given the serious nature of the pandemic, I can't understand anyone not masking up regardless of where they live. Period. Rob
Trump's lazy laissez-faire non-response to COVID--and then pitting state governments against each other and the federal government) to get what little PPE was available without ramping up production to get more is exactly what got us here. And then a fillip of mocking mask-wearing and medical experts added in. We needed a strong federal response to a once in a century catastrophic event, and we didn't get it until now.
If the people who are too stupid to wear masks were the only people they affected I’d agree that mask mandates are wrong. But that’s not the way the virus works.
And you’re right Alan. It’s not fair of me to single out Texas. Here’s the rest:
Alaska
Arizona
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Mississippi
Missouri
Nebraska
Oklahoma
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee.
Read in today's paper Iowa no longer has a mask mandate either. Our good friends live there so it stuck out to me.
Given the serious nature of the pandemic, I can't understand anyone not masking up regardless of where they live. Period. Rob
What if you lived on a desert island by yourself?
What if you said your significant other who does not live with you was in a "pod" with you?
What if you really wanted to go to lunch with your friends and the restaurants were not crowded when you went?
What if you had a strong desire to see your new grandbaby?
What if you didn't want to leave the care of your elderly mother to masked caregivers?
Right here in these forums every day you can read all about people indoors around others not in their immediate household and not masking up. So if you don't understand how anyone could not mask up then you don't understand the majority of people on this forum, who all love to mandate masks for other people, just not themselves.
And what if you were the mask mandating governor and wanted to look good at your news conference and masks aren't telegenic?
What if you lived on a desert island by yourself?
What if you said your significant other who does not live with you was in a "pod" with you?
What if you really wanted to go to lunch with your friends and the restaurants were not crowded when you went?
What if you had a strong desire to see your new grandbaby?
What if you didn't want to leave the care of your elderly mother to masked caregivers?
Right here in these forums every day you can read all about people indoors around others not in their immediate household and not masking up. So if you don't understand how anyone could not mask up then you don't understand the majority of people on this forum, who all love to mandate masks for other people, just not themselves.
And what if you were the mask mandating governor and wanted to look good at your news conference and masks aren't telegenic?
Another ridiculous post Y.... You obviously are the one who does not understand!
When I lived in Alaska back in the 70's, the population density of the state was less than one person per square mile, I think it's up to about 1.2 persons per square mile now. It appears that Cochise County Arizona's population density is approximately 20 people per square mile. Do you think it's appropriate for remote politicians to impose strict mandates in those places or is it better left locally?
I have taken road trips to all the lower 48 states and observed that in rural America the most common store (in many places the only supermarket and the only department store for miles around) is Wal-Mart. Yes, that same chain with a nationwide mask mandate for both employees and customers. One might ask why individuals and businesses cannot make these decisions rather than government. Joe Biden apparently asked himself and concluded the government lacks any such authority, so his mask mandate initially applied only to Federal property, later expanded to public transit.
Trump's lazy laissez-faire non-response to COVID--and then pitting state governments against each other and the federal government) to get what little PPE was available without ramping up production to get more is exactly what got us here. And then a fillip of mocking mask-wearing and medical experts added in. We needed a strong federal response to a once in a century catastrophic event, and we didn't get it until now.
And then the Orange one secretly got the vaccine. What a difference he might have made in this country had he been public in his support of preventative covid activity.
I have written probably almost a year ago about how difficult I find it to wear masks, that I have never been one who can wear a turtleneck, can't stand things around my face, and later about a very itchy painful rash I got starting in the area under my mask that kept me up at night. I was told to suck it up.
Yesterday I saw on the news special masks developed with autistic children in mind because they too cannot stand to have anything on their face. It has a bigger pocket of air. (Guess what, you don't outgrow sensory sensitivity, adults can have it too, hence all the hypoallergenic products out there.)
Anyways, who here thinks this is unnecessary and children should just suck it up, don't complain, if they do they're being vain and don't care about others' health?
Well...you can always move to Texas. Gov is opening up everything 100% with no mask mandates.
I think your implication that everyone is too stupid to do the right unless forced is probably off base, and there's not even evidence that a state's lack of coercion regarding masks prevents counties and municipalities from imposing their own requirements. I think that's how a free country works best, and it appears a lot of red states agree.
Maybe you’re right and it’s only Super Bowl celebrators and cpac attendees that are stupid. Plenty of pictures from both showed lots of unmasked idiots.
And yeah, in some cases it IS only a state mandate that convinces municipalities. Ft worth is ending their mandate early in anticipation of Texas ending it in time for spring break.
ApatheticNoMore
3-3-21, 1:21am
I thought that swipe about a partner you don't live with was a direct attack on me. Although I don't use the term pod but just call it seeing my bf/partner.
And let's think rationally for a moment, even though the powers that be here said people who live alone should have had no human contact from March to October maybe, and insanely made no distinction between indoor and outdoor socializing even, and trust me very few people were paying them much mind, there is no ACTUAL difference in exposure to see someone you live with and don't with whatever exposures they and you have. The virus does not care about real estate, the authorities might say that because they know you have no choice to see those you live with, but again the virus doesn't care about real estate, you can get the virus from a partner you live with or one you don't (in and out of wedlock) or from a roommate, exposure is exposure and it all carries some risk and the more people you see inside unmasked the greater on average.
iris lilies
3-3-21, 1:51am
There are other places without a statewide mask mandate in which the majority of the state is under local mandates. Tennessee is one example. A state mandate is not the only way for maskers to impose their will on other people.
Exactly.
Wear a mask in populated areas when you are around other people.
Dont bother to wear a mask when you are working in your own garden or in community gardens when others are not nearby., when you are hiking in the woods, when you are bicycling through town, etc.
happystuff
3-3-21, 11:24am
I have written probably almost a year ago about how difficult I find it to wear masks, that I have never been one who can wear a turtleneck, can't stand things around my face, and later about a very itchy painful rash I got starting in the area under my mask that kept me up at night. I was told to suck it up.
Yesterday I saw on the news special masks developed with autistic children in mind because they too cannot stand to have anything on their face. It has a bigger pocket of air. (Guess what, you don't outgrow sensory sensitivity, adults can have it too, hence all the hypoallergenic products out there.)
Anyways, who here thinks this is unnecessary and children should just suck it up, don't complain, if they do they're being vain and don't care about others' health?
As you said in your own post, they have developed special masks for children and hypoallergenic products for adults. And, any parent worth their salt would be protecting their children at all costs - special needs or not. I've seen plenty of young children out with their parents WITH MASKS! And not whining about wearing them.
Edited to add: Giving it serious thought, I haven't see ANY children whining about having to wear their masks.
Teacher Terry
3-3-21, 11:50am
So I went to a singles dining group for the first time last night. It was a great mix of mostly professional people ranging in age from 55-80. Some have had their vaccines and some not. The guy started it 6 years ago after a divorce because he didn’t want to eat out alone. As this illustrates everyone’s comfort level is different as far as dining out and other activities.
The only kid I have seen whining about their mask was one who said "Mommy, my mask is wet." to which she replied "so stop licking it."
As you said in your own post, they have developed special masks for children and hypoallergenic products for adults. And, any parent worth their salt would be protecting their children at all costs - special needs or not. I've seen plenty of young children out with their parents WITH MASKS! And not whining about wearing them.
Edited to add: Giving it serious thought, I haven't see ANY children whining about having to wear their masks.
There are 8 kids in my wife's Autism unit and none of them wear masks in the classroom, they become the entire focus of the kids emotions and attention making normal classroom activities impossible. She says it's nearly impossible to keep several of them in their clothes due to sensory issues, masks are even worse.
happystuff
3-3-21, 12:21pm
There are 8 kids in my wife's Autism unit and none of them wear masks in the classroom, they become the entire focus of the kids emotions and attention making normal classroom activities impossible. She says it's nearly impossible to keep several of them in their clothes due to sensory issues, masks are even worse.
Kudos to your wife for the work she is doing. If these children are in the classroom - or for any children in the classrooms - what is being done as far as COVID protections? I see what is being done in my area, but know that different schools are doing different things.
iris lilies
3-3-21, 12:27pm
So I went to a singles dining group for the first time last night. It was a great mix of mostly professional people ranging in age from 55-80. Some have had their vaccines and some not. The guy started it 6 years ago after a divorce because he didn’t want to eat out alone. As this illustrates everyone’s comfort level is different as far as dining out and other activities.
Even with a vaccine two weeks behind me I wouldn’t be doing this. Dining out with a bunch of people in an enclosed room? Nope nope nope.
Doesn’t Fauci and Company say we need to be masking up and socially distancing for a while yet? Isn’t this “denying the science?”
Medical consensus seems to be that we need to follow established guidelines until the majority of the population is vaccinated, which sounds like it will be this summer.
ApatheticNoMore
3-3-21, 1:05pm
They are making judgement calls and assumptions, some of it really doesn't fall in the category of follow the science or not, as there are things we just don't know, like transmission in vaccinated people. Almost no vaccines for anything are totally sterilizing is my understanding, but it's likely vaccination reduces transmission.
What we have more data on it is seems is that you don't have anything close to full protection from anything in a couple of weeks after the first vaccine, you just don't. However you do eventually in more 4 weeks or so develop pretty good immunity with some of them (there have been some articles on Pfizer) from just one shot, 75% from getting it, 85% from a symptomatic case. If that was the most effective vaccine we had you bet we'd be using it, glad for it, and moving back to normal when vaccination was widespread (we aren't however at the widespread point at all). However the vaccines have been better than that. A second shot of Pfizer or Moderna will of course take you into extremely high immunity, 95%. But yes it must be plenty annoying if restaurant staff have not been vaccinated yet having to serve customers for who are like: "what pandemic?" just because they have been lucky enough to land a shot.
Teacher Terry
3-3-21, 1:09pm
The casino restaurants are following state guidelines for masking and how many people are allowed at a table. Actually they only allowed 4 at a table while guidelines said 6. Everyone wore a mask unless actively drinking or eating. I had assumed before going that most in that age group would have had at least the first vaccine. Anyway I get my second dose this morning.
They are making judgement calls and assumptions, some of it really doesn't fall in the category of follow the science or not, as there are things we just don't know, like transmission in vaccinated people. Almost no vaccines for anything are totally sterilizing is my understanding, but it's likely vaccination reduces transmission.
And this is one of the reasons I will continue to wear a mask and follow COVID behavior recommendations. My getting a vaccine helps ME, but I still don't want to be responsible for possibly passing the virus on to someone else. I really haven't seen anything about when young people and children will be vaccinated; I would hate the thought of even accidentally passing the virus on to anyone.
Teacher Terry
3-3-21, 1:17pm
The most recent studies done on vaccinated people in Israel seems to indicate that vaccinated people can’t pass the virus to others. My DIL took a year lay-off because of the virus. She is going back to work on Saturday voluntarily and is glad seniors are getting vaccinated as those are her customers because she works days as a cocktail waitress. The money is in the tips. She could have remained on unemployment but is bored to death. No one has been more paranoid than my kids but they feel safe 2 weeks after their first dose.
The most recent studies done on vaccinated people in Israel seems to indicate that vaccinated people can’t pass the virus to others. My DIL took a year lay-off because of the virus. She is going back to work on Saturday voluntarily and is glad seniors are getting vaccinated as those are her customers because she works days as a cocktail waitress. The money is in the tips. She could have remained on unemployment but is bored to death. No one has been more paranoid than my kids but they feel safe 2 weeks after their first dose.
Not definitive.... best would be to err on the side of caution. Waiting a few more weeks is the best recourse.
ApatheticNoMore
3-3-21, 1:41pm
Some public health folks would say let people do some things after they are vaccinated, if those they do them with are vaccinated, or it's a relatively low risk situation (ie let's say clothes shopping or an outdoor gym), both of which have been open for a long time of course, but I haven't yet done much because covid, just to encourage people to get vaccines (although there are now way more people who want a vaccine than can get one). Masks or not is a ridiculous obsession that some have become obsessed with, as wearing masks when out and about is easy enough and really a no brainer, so why wouldn't you?
iris lilies
3-3-21, 2:57pm
Please let me be holier than thou! I am serious when I say I won’t go indoors to dine with a bunch of people.
Conversely I would never mask up when working in my own yard or even in our community garden
Srsly is someone advocating this latter thing?is this “the science?”
ApatheticNoMore
3-3-21, 3:04pm
I don't wear masks outside except when passing a person closely and that's mostly politeness. But by outside I actually mean outside, no walls, no ceiling, the kind of semi-indoor-outdoor things like "outdoor gyms" or many "outdoor restaurants", I don't know if any study has ever been done on, except the less walls the better, they aren't truly an outdoor situation.
Is someone advocating the latter thing? YES, local public health recommendations have made no distinction much of the time between indoor and outdoor. However, it's partly because it would be somewhat complex to communicate (it may be mostly because they are incompetent, that's pretty much what I have concluded :)). There are plenty of places you can walk and easily avoid people by crossing the street etc.. But there are places too crowded for that to be a possibility and masks may make some sense (but maybe not even there, I mean outdoor transmission is supposed to be very rare).
I thought that swipe about a partner you don't live with was a direct attack on me. Although I don't use the term pod but just call it seeing my bf/partner.
The Powers That Be issued some guidelines on PPP (Proper Pod Protocols), and I have followed them with my pod-person. There is no difference in our procedures from what we would do if we were living under the same roof, and travel in-between is done in a covid-safe fashion.
It does require the pod-mates to trust each other to behave properly when out-of-sight, and report any PP (Protocol Problems), but it seems to me that would be the case even if living under the same roof.
I know plenty of married couples that have had to set up in-home quarantine situations because of a likely exposure or protocol issue, it's not a problem limited to just pods.
gimmethesimplelife
3-3-21, 8:19pm
Good news. The roofer's fiance who was ill with covid down the street? Seems to be doing better. Rob
Good news. The roofer's fiance who was ill with covid down the street? Seems to be doing better. Rob
That is good news. I always worry about those people who don't have a mild case; there are far too many of them.
ToomuchStuff
3-4-21, 10:36am
Getting really annoyed at all those who keep asking when will we open internally. When they learn the owner is on dialysis, many have made the comment, oh why doesn't he just skip a day and go to (x county, or Y store, etc) and get the vaccine, so we can open.
Friday, we are allowing a group from a former police chief friend, to come in internally, from a funeral. Max 30 people was my restriction. This is the second group attempt the other owner wanted to do (first was a charity he is associated with). I expect this will end up no better then the first, and go back to closed internally.
I think it joined a dozen or more other states without mask mandates, but it's Texas and a red state so somebody's bound to notice. Personally I think it's appropriate for states to leave that sort of thing for localities to decide but I understand the desire by some to make everyone subject to top down, one size fits all governance. I don't agree with it but I understand it.
So are you upset that asshat governor Abbott is not allowing local mask mandates?
So are you upset that asshat governor Abbott is not allowing local mask mandates?I'm not familiar with that, and it doesn't sound like something he would do or say to me. If it's true, I'd be disappointed.
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEFTlmiEYQjbBvPQRSseNGUQqFwgEKg4IACoGCAow28c3MK zqBzD-0ZsD?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
“But officials lambasted the latest order because it does not allow local leaders to enforce their own mask mandates. The latest order also removes a previous option available to local leaders: compel businesses to require that customers wear face masks.“
The order also establishes that nothing “precludes businesses or other establishments from requiring employees or customers to follow additional hygiene m[/FONT]p1;377161]https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEFTlmiEYQjbBvPQRSseNGUQqFwgEKg4IACoGCAow28c3MK zqBzD-0ZsD?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
“But officials lambasted the latest order because it does not allow local leaders to enforce their own mask mandates. The latest order also removes a previous option available to local leaders: compel businesses to require that customers wear face masks.“
The order also establishes that nothing “precludes businesses or other establishments from requiring employees or customers to follow additional hygiene measures, including the wearing of a face covering.”
So it appears the complaint is that no one can criminalize not wearing a mask in public spaces while retaining private businesses and establishments right to enforce their own mandates. That sounds like good governance to me.
I think it joined a dozen or more other states without mask mandates, but it's Texas and a red state so somebody's bound to notice. Personally I think it's appropriate for states to leave that sort of thing for localities to decide but I understand the desire by some to make everyone subject to top down, one size fits all governance. I don't agree with it but I understand it.
So you have changed your mind in the past couple of days?
GeorgeParker
3-5-21, 11:35am
The order also establishes that nothing “precludes businesses or other establishments from requiring employees or customers to follow additional hygiene measures, including the wearing of a face covering.”
So it appears the complaint is that no one can criminalize not wearing a mask in public spaces while retaining private businesses and establishments right to enforce their own mandates. That sounds like good governance to me.The mask mandate wasn't legally enforceable anyway.
A woman was arrested for keeping her business open in defiance of the Covid shutdown order, because she refused to close when the police warned her she would be arrested if she didn't. That caused such a brouhaha that the governor issued an order that no one could be arrested for violating the Covid mandates. That effectively put an end to the mandates being enforced. Everyone was expected to respect the mandates because they were the law, but all the police could do was ask you to comply. Mask enforcement thus fell to the local health departments under their power to issue citations to businesses for violations of hygiene rules. IOW there was basically no enforcement by anyone except businesses enforcing their own rules requiring masks.
The latest order by the Governor closed the loophole that let local health departments issue mask mandates for enclosed spaces, so even that small enforceability is now gone. And most businesses other than bars and restaurants are unhappy about it. With no official mask mandate, people who were only wearing a mask because of the mandate are now refusing to comply with store rules that require customers to wear masks, and that's causing a lot of conflicts between businesses trying to be safe and customers refusing to wear a mask.
So you have changed your mind in the past couple of days?No, I've always been in favor of less top down governance, preferring everything to be as local as possible, and if you can avoid any level of government it's even better.
No, I've always been in favor of less top down governance, preferring everything to be as local as possible, and if you can avoid any level of government it's even better.
Ah, so when you said leave it for the localities to decide you meant for us to define locality as each individual business. Got it. You’ll have to forgive me for not understanding it originally. Republican logic sometimes baffles me.
Republican logic sometimes baffles me.It's pretty simple actually, it's just an individual freedom sort of outlook on life. I guess it's only downside is that it's constantly under attack by those who'd rather use government force to control, restrict and demonize, but I think that may also be one of it's most endearing and noble characteristics. :cool:
ApatheticNoMore
3-5-21, 12:57pm
But if wearing masks really is tyranny (I can't go there, it's too absurd, but IF ICE REALLY WERE HOT ... do you understand how utterly absurd it is to arguing from a completely nonsensical assumption) then businesses should not be allowed to enforce it either.
But if wearing masks really is tyranny (I can't go there, it's too absurd, but IF ICE REALLY WERE HOT ... do you understand how utterly absurd it is to arguing from a completely nonsensical assumption) then businesses should not be allowed to enforce it either.
The difference between governments and businesses in this issue is that government uses force against it's citizens to enforce its edicts where the businesses simply says "We're happy to have you stop by but we do require you to follow our rules. Have a nice day!".
It's the difference between you telling guests that you don't allow shoes to be worn in your house and the local government making the wearing of shoes indoors illegal.
Teacher Terry
3-5-21, 1:13pm
When it is health related it’s reasonable for governments to be able to mandate masks.
When it is health related it’s reasonable for governments to be able to mandate masks.
Perhaps the anti-maskers prefer to do away with Public Health altogether. No more vaccines. Bring all those eradicated diseases (yes, they are out there dormant-my state has a known area where smallpox lies). I mean, why on earth would I give a shit if you get sick right? Not my problem.
The fact that 516K humans are dead in our country alone, and people are still pissing and moaning about masks and not filling every table in restaurants, having big gatherings, refusing to social distance .......this mentality is completely beyond me. I guess 39 years in science with expertise in Infection Prevention doesn't help me.
So it appears the complaint is that no one can criminalize not wearing a mask in public spaces while retaining private businesses and establishments right to enforce their own mandates. That sounds like good governance to me.
In my county, which has had notably low covid case counts given our circumstances, we've been aggressively managing the covid situation since the very beginning.
We found, early on when we tried not issuing formal regulations and relied on businesses to do their own policy/policing, that we got a lot of pushback. From the local business community, oddly. They were having trouble with angry customers, who were blaming the business. By issuing an official order, the business owner could shrug, point at the order from the County Health Officer, and say "blame him, not me". This reduced tensions considerably, and I believe produced better behaviour.
It also made it much easier to have consistent messaging at each business, when the approximately 900,000 tourists descended on our 5000-person island, as usual, during the summer season, even though we had used advertising dollars to suggest strongly that people not come here for vacation, as that was against the state regulations at the time, and we had no capacity to serve them. Now when a tourist showed up at any shop, they saw basically the same notice on the door, with the same message, logo, font, and so on. (These were not required, but the businesses snapped up the sample message we put out and ran with it.)
As a result, we had almost no infections sourced from the tourist influx, which was remarkable.
YMMV, but in this quite libertarian-leaning community, we ended up having the first mask requirements in the state. For compliance, well, since we have basically no law enforcement here, and the public health officer and emergency management folks were busy dealing with more serious issues, we relied on most people basically behaving properly, and some community social pressure. There are a few businesses here, for example, that will likely perish, as most locals will no longer support those stores because of their notably-crazy behaviour during the pandemic. Some are already belly-up.
Perhaps the anti-maskers prefer to do away with Public Health altogether. No more vaccines. Bring all those eradicated diseases...
I believe scientific term for that is 'an assumption not in evidence'.
ApatheticNoMore
3-5-21, 1:43pm
The difference between governments and businesses in this issue is that government uses force against it's citizens to enforce its edicts where the businesses simply says "We're happy to have you stop by but we do require you to follow our rules. Have a nice day!".
that's all very well for their customers, but what about their employees who have to be exposed to the virus by unmasked customers and have very little choice in the matter. I bet a lot of them breath a sigh of relief when a law is passed mandating masks (hooray I don't have to face additional (and the risk is not zero even with masks), EASILY preventable (as the mask part is the easily preventable part), risk of disease today just because my employers have been pathetic about enforcing masks). Why maybe I can even have a nice day today!
It's pretty simple actually, it's just an individual freedom sort of outlook on life. I guess it's only downside is that it's constantly under attack by those who'd rather use government force to control, restrict and demonize, but I think that may also be one of it's most endearing and noble characteristics. :cool:
That part doesn’t baffle me so much. It’s the part where you want to define Taco Bell or Safeway as a municipality.
I believe scientific term for that is 'an assumption not in evidence'.
The term, I believe, is "Assumes Facts Not in Evidence", and it is from the lofty realm of law, not science :-)
That part doesn’t baffle me so much. It’s the part where you want to define Taco Bell or Safeway as a municipality.Another example of an assumption not in evidence. I believe that my desire to set the terms for my interactions with a business must also allow the business to do the same with me. We can both then choose whether to do business with each other or not. A municipality or county or state or national government issuing edicts for how we both will interact removes both our options.
I know it makes it easier on a Safeway or Taco Bell to enforce its terms if it can be backed up by government force, and a lot of people seem to appreciate others being forced to do certain things, but I'll bet no one appreciates the threat of government force in everything. And we should all be able to agree or disagree on the scope of 'everything' without being mis-represented.
The term, I believe, is "Assumes Facts Not in Evidence", and it is from the lofty realm of law, not science :-) LOL, attributing the concept to science fit the contextual flow better. I try to be nimble like that. ;)
Another example of an assumption not in evidence. I believe that my desire to set the terms for my interactions with a business must also allow the business to do the same with me. We can both then choose whether to do business with each other or not. A municipality or county or state or national government issuing edicts for how we both will interact removes both our options.
As part of one of my day jobs, I do the required fire inspections of businesses. And note violations of the code. Which are frequent.
I think the government isn't overstepping terribly in requiring businesses to do certain things for fire safety. Many of the required items are a bit technical, the customers have no idea if the fire safety situation is up-to-snuff, and indeed the business owner may not be aware of the requirements or the need to continue to follow them on an ongoing basis.
I gather the same sort of situation applies to health inspections of restaurants.
From the customer's point of view, there's very little transparency about these sorts of issues - the casual visitor to a theater might not have the time, expertise, or interest to verify that the Exit doors in the theater aren't locked shut, for instance, and by the time they discover that, well, the opportunity to consent to doing business is well past.
Another example of an assumption not in evidence.
Except that it is in evidence.
Personally I think it's appropriate for states to leave that sort of thing for localities to decide.
Except that it is in evidence.
That part doesn’t baffle me so much. It’s the part where you want to define Taco Bell or Safeway as a municipality.
No, actually it's not. I've previously noted that I'd prefer that all government edicts be issued on as local a basis as possible rather than being derived from the top of the pyramid. I've also noted that I believe that a business should be able to set the terms of how it interacts with its customers, but neither of those noted beliefs defines a business as a government entity. I remain baffled by your bafflement.
So you didn't say "Personally I think it's appropriate for states to leave that sort of thing for localities to decide."?
So you didn't say "Personally I think it's appropriate for states to leave that sort of thing for localities to decide."?
Yes, I believe I did say that. I still don't see where you made the leap of me defining Safeway or Taco Bell as municipalities.
GeorgeParker
3-5-21, 4:31pm
I'm not familiar with that, and it doesn't sound like something he would do or say to me. If it's true, I'd be disappointed.Said it. Put it in writing. Signed it. https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/02/texas-coronavirus-mask-mandate/
In particular I call your attention to this paragraph: "But officials lambasted the latest order because it does not allow local leaders to enforce their own mask mandates. The latest order also removes a previous option available to local leaders: compel businesses to require that customers wear face masks."
Gov Abbot clearly believes in state government dominance, not local control.
Said it. Put it in writing. Signed it. https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/02/texas-coronavirus-mask-mandate/
In particular I call your attention to this paragraph: "But officials lambasted the latest order because it does not allow local leaders to enforce their own mask mandates. The latest order also removes a previous option available to local leaders: compel businesses to require that customers wear face masks."
Gov Abbot clearly believes in state government dominance, not local control.
I believe the actual executive order limits local judges from imposing fines or jail terms for not wearing a mask while other commentary within the order encourages everyone to continue masking in public. I think we can all agree that there will come a time when every politician will endorse the same, I guess it's just a matter of timing at this point. I'm sure once a Democratic Governor does the same, all will be well.
The difference is that the democratic governors will likely wait until vaccination rates and case rates make it a reasonably safe decision to do so instead of doing it as a distraction from their party’s failed energy policies that resulted in a bunch of dead people and a lot of frozen pipes.
GeorgeParker
3-5-21, 6:28pm
I believe the actual executive order limits local judges from imposing fines or jail terms for not wearing a mask while other commentary within the order encourages everyone to continue masking in public.This is the actual order: https://static.texastribune.org/media/files/44fad3726aefb30a2f1f5a586c949c9d/EO-GA-34-opening-Texas-response-to-COVID-disaster-IMAGE-03-02-2021.pdf?_ga=2.126602569.574367886.1614975952-683996267.1614975952
The language you're looking for is in page 2, section 1, part b:
3669
And in page 2, section 2, part iii:
3670
That seems pretty unambiguous. He's saying no local government can impose a mask mandate or require any business to require masks.
That seems pretty unambiguous. He's saying no local government can impose a mask mandate or require any business to require masks.
How does that play with the Kickapoo, the Tiqua, and the Alabama-Coushatta nations?
Hereabouts, some of the First Nations were quite aggressive at controlling COVID. The Tulalip and the Suquamish fared so well that they offered some of their vaccine doses to schoolteachers in surrounding districts, as neighborly gestures.
GeorgeParker
3-5-21, 7:14pm
How does that play with the Kickapoo, the Tiqua, and the Alabama-Coushatta nations?.Huh? I totally don't understand what you're talking about. Gov Abbot's decree only applies in Texas, doesn't apply in any other state, and afaik can't apply to any sovereign indigenous tribes (aka First Nations).
From today's news - among those with covid, the obese are 10 times more likely to die of it than those who are not obese. I guess no one told the virus it has to be politically correct, so these are the facts.
And still after a year there is no public health messaging that people should lose weight. I guess that's an inconvenient truth.
Teacher Terry
3-5-21, 8:20pm
That’s one of the reasons I got serious about losing weight.
there is no public health messaging that people should lose weight.
Too much money made selling crap "food". And too much money being made off the illnesses caused by being overweight.
And still after a year there is no public health messaging that people should lose weight. I guess that's an inconvenient truth.
Seems to me I've seen public health messaging on that point for the past 50+ years.
The difference between governments and businesses in this issue is that government uses force against it's citizens to enforce its edicts where the businesses simply says "We're happy to have you stop by but we do require you to follow our rules. Have a nice day!".
It's the difference between you telling guests that you don't allow shoes to be worn in your house and the local government making the wearing of shoes indoors illegal.
I went to Aldi's not too long ago and was told by the cashier they do not enforce wearing of masks because of the abundance of guns and violence. They are happy that the mask mandate is in place though because it does not put them in any position. They can say they are just following the law or the mask is required by law.
I went to Aldi's not too long ago and was told by the cashier they do not enforce wearing of masks because of the abundance of guns and violence. They are happy that the mask mandate is in place though because it does not put them in any position. They can say they are just following the law or the mask is required by law.
I think they could just as easily say they are just following CDC guidelines or perhaps their state health department guidelines and have the same effect, minus the criminal liability of a government mandate.
It is much more effective when a sign is posted on the front door that masks are required by law. I, personally, have pointed out a sign to a miscreant. There is no confrontation... only the fact of the requirement... right in front of the person. I, personally, feel this law is required to help protect me from those uncaring of the health of others. This whole mask debate IMO is unwarranted. Again, in my opinion, health of the country trumps individual inconvenience or preferences.
Some people cannot wear masks. My state has an exception with no doctor's note required. This has led to confrontations with stores telling people they have to wear masks, the patron complaining, and the store getting in trouble because they tried to get the customer to do curbside pickup.
One store I was thinking of going to for groceries mandates double masks so I decided not to.
The whole mask thing is out of control. Passing someone for a few seconds in the aisle of a supermarket is not going to give you covid. Sitting at the same table indoors eating with your friends for an hour is should any of you be infected. And at least one of the mask zealots here is all for that since she is half vaccinated. Batting .50 might be good in baseball but it's not with a pandemic and I personally think buying food is more important than socializing.
I am with the store. The customer has the option to do curbside pickup or shop elsewhere. The only way this pandemic is going to end is if people follow the required protocol. Wearing masks has nothing to do with personal rights but common sense in curtailing a PANDEMIC.
It is much more effective when a sign is posted on the front door that masks are required by law.
I think I'll have to pay closer attention to signs. I've only routinely been in 2 stores over the past several months, both grocery stores, and the only signs I've noticed have read something to the effect of 'Customers and Employees are required to wear masks at all times'. Nothing about them being required by law that I've noticed. It seems to work pretty well.
I did notice one woman in Kroger several weeks ago without a mask, she may have had valid reasons for doing so or maybe not, I don't know. I just gave her a wide berth and went on about my business although I did wonder if someone would make a scene or maybe call the police on her. I hoped not.
I regularly see signs in IL and WI that masks are required by governor’s emergency order or something along those lines.
My state has updated its list of safe states to travel to. New on the list is Missouri, which does not have a mask mandate. Hmmm.
happystuff
3-6-21, 11:41am
Rumor has it that someone was sent home from work last night with covid. Apparently they were working in the section I was also working in. Glad I was masked and gloved all night. Time will tell...
Teacher Terry
3-6-21, 12:21pm
Happy, I really hope you don’t get it. My sister has COPD so can’t wear a mask for long. Despite being vaccinated she still mostly stays home because of this.
I was pleased to hear Dr. Osterholm on Meet the Press today say that, and I'm paraphrasing here, the CDC needs to be realistic in their advice for vaccinated people and not make stupid recommendations like they need to wear masks into 2022 or they will lose all credibility with the American people.
I was pleased to hear Dr. Osterholm on Meet the Press today say that, and I'm paraphrasing here, the CDC needs to be realistic in their advice for vaccinated people and not make stupid recommendations like they need to wear masks into 2022 or they will lose all credibility with the American people.
Right, because protecting public health would be stupid. >:(
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-21, 6:50pm
I managed to finally find my Mother an appt for both covid shots way out in Laveen. So grateful. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-21, 6:54pm
On Valley Metro today an announcement played on the bus's speakers to the effect that Federal law requires wearing a mask on public transportation. But get this! The bus driver - brazenly not wearing a mask. Kind of in direct opposition to the Federal law announcement, no? Rob
On Valley Metro today an announcement played on the bus's speakers to the effect that Federal law requires wearing a mask on public transportation. But get this! The bus driver - brazenly not wearing a mask. Kind of in direct opposition to the Federal law announcement, no? Rob
That's just weird!
On Valley Metro today an announcement played on the bus's speakers to the effect that Federal law requires wearing a mask on public transportation. But get this! The bus driver - brazenly not wearing a mask. Kind of in direct opposition to the Federal law announcement, no? Rob
Was the driving area segmented by plexiglass or some other barrier?
gimmethesimplelife
3-7-21, 7:33pm
Was the driving area segmented by plexiglass or some other barrier?Surprise! Yes there was a plexiglass barrier - very small though, covering very little space and inadequate for its purpose. The driver needs to be masked up per Federal law - and what's to stop someone from photographing and sending an image of the driver's non-compliance to Valley Metro? I might have myself were the economy not so down. Rob
Apparently the mask rule is even going to apply to dive charter boats on the Great Lakes. One of the captains (owns the boat, too) is a VERY vocal non-mask, corona isn't that bad type - all over FB. Have to wonder if that's going to hurt business.
Apparently the mask rule is even going to apply to dive charter boats on the Great Lakes. One of the captains (owns the boat, too) is a VERY vocal non-mask, corona isn't that bad type - all over FB. Have to wonder if that's going to hurt business.
If there are other dive boats I suspect that people will sell segregate.
ApatheticNoMore
3-8-21, 1:30am
plexiglass is not going to do all that much for an airborne virus. Things might be slowly getting safer as vaccination spreads, still quite a ways to go though.
... what's to stop someone from photographing and sending an image of the driver's non-compliance to Valley Metro? I might have myself were the economy not so down. Rob
Good of you to think of saving his job. It seems more important than stopping covid from killing people. Well done.
Rob, what if you contacted Valley Metro and told them what you told us, that one of their drivers was observed not wearing a mask, without being specific? Do you think that might help?
gimmethesimplelife
3-8-21, 12:00pm
Rob, what if you contacted Valley Metro and told them what you told us, that one of their drivers was observed not wearing a mask, without being specific? Do you think that might help?Yes and no. That driver should be wearing a mask per new Federal law. No excuse for the non-compliance and disrespect for human life. But I'm also aware of how horrible the economy is and this bus driver is not Derek Chauvin for example - and many would fire him without thinking twice. I have problems with that in this economy when this behavior could be perhaps corrected by other means. Rob
iris lilies
3-8-21, 1:43pm
Yes and no. That driver should be wearing a mask per new Federal law. No excuse for the non-compliance and disrespect for human life. But I'm also aware of how horrible the economy is and this bus driver is not Derek Chauvin for example - and many would fire him without thinking twice. I have problems with that in this economy when this behavior could be perhaps corrected by other means. Rob
1. you are not firing him
2. you are not complicit in nor are you forcing him to do the action that is wrong (apparently, and I assume)
3. You are not knowledgeable if his action results in firing
ergo, you don’t have the power you think you have.
you have the power only to accurately report on what you, yourself, have observed as fact
GeorgeParker
3-8-21, 2:18pm
Yes and no. That driver should be wearing a mask per new Federal law. No excuse for the non-compliance and disrespect for human life. But I'm also aware of how horrible the economy is and this bus driver is not Derek Chauvin for example - and many would fire him without thinking twice. I have problems with that in this economy when this behavior could be perhaps corrected by other means. RobI, personally, would give him the benefit of the doubt once and not report it. But if I saw the same driver not wearing a mask again, I would report it.
Also, there's a good chance an upset mask advocate has already reported it. So I'd let it go once and report the driver if it happens again. YMMV
Teacher Terry
3-8-21, 2:26pm
Rob, I wouldn’t report it either for the same reasons.
Rob, I wouldn’t report it either for the same reasons.
I would photograph it with my fully-charged smartphone, and report it to the County Health Department ASAP.
Now we have people advocating not just cancel culture but snitch culture. If everyone who didn't wear a mask or wore one not covering their nose only their mouth lost their jobs there would not be enough unemployed people to pick up the slack. How do you know the person cannot wear a mask for medical reasons?
Now we have people advocating not just cancel culture but snitch culture.
Come now. When I do fire inspections, I write tickets for the violations. When I see abuse on calls, I report, as required, to the proper authorities. When I see health code violations at local restaurants, I bring it to the attention of the health department. When I see burglars trying to break into my neighbor's house, I call the Sheriff.
When I see someone violating the health orders as described in this incident, you bet I'll call it in. If you think that's snitching, well, I'll see you in the yard...
(I note that if I do not follow the PPE requirements when working, I will get reassigned/fired immediately....)
gimmethesimplelife
3-8-21, 9:10pm
Now we have people advocating not just cancel culture but snitch culture. If everyone who didn't wear a mask or wore one not covering their nose only their mouth lost their jobs there would not be enough unemployed people to pick up the slack. How do you know the person cannot wear a mask for medical reasons?Interesting take! The forum activist/radical here is advocating a bit for second chances while unnamed others seem to be OK with severe consequences here. What an interesting role - though I'm making an effort to avoid controversy here, were police issues involved we'd being doing immediate 180s. Very interesting to see this.
I still stand by.my.words and would not report this driver. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-8-21, 9:11pm
I would photograph it with my fully-charged smartphone, and report it to the County Health Department ASAP.Wow! There's a 180 if ever there was one. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-8-21, 9:11pm
Rob, I wouldn’t report it either for the same reasons.Thank You, TT. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-8-21, 9:14pm
Interesting take! The forum activist/radical here is advocating a bit for second chances while unnamed others seem to be OK with severe consequences here. What an interesting role - though I'm making an effort to avoid controversy here, were police issues involved we'd being doing immediate 180s. Very interesting to see this.
I still stand by.my.words and would not report this driver. RobShould have been what an interesting role reversal above. Rob
I still stand by.my.words and would not report this driver. Rob
Would you report him if he was running stoplights with the bus?
Or driving with excessive speed?
Or driving recklessly?
I saw on the news today there is no reason for vaccinated people to wear masks but the Feds and many state governments will not ease mandates because they do not trust people to be honest about whether they were vaccinated if mandates are modified to only apply to the unvaccinated. We could use vaccine passports but they aren't doing anything on that front. But they are at least saying no need for non vaccinated non elderly people with no comorbidities to wear masks at family gatherings where the high risk people are vaccinated. We need more of this thinking, that we don't infringe on the rights of healthy people unnecessarily.
Of course people won’t be honest. We’ve all likely read stories about known positives getting on planes and such. There was a story about gyms being super spreader places because lots of people don’t wear masks and of the limited number of situations studied where they were spreading the virus there were multiple cases where people who had either tested positive or had obvious covid symptoms had still showed up to workout.
If most people in the US actually had concern for others our infection stats would look more like countries like Australia.
I saw on the news today there is no reason for vaccinated people to wear masks ....
Well, gosh, I guess you know more than the CDC's just-released guidelines on the topic for vaccinated individuals.
It's like you only read the headlines of articles that reinforce your beliefs, and even then misrepresent things.
до свидания
My parents are scheduled to get their second shots today. In a couple weeks I will be able to hug them for the first time in over a year which the CDC says is safe even though I am not vaccinated. As I said in another thread, vaccines work, and I trust this vaccine to keep them from getting the virus or giving it to me. People who love to cower in fear and gloom need to look at the data coming out of Israel.
My mother has really declined over the year. It has been hard seeing that, being apart, and not knowing when we could be together again or know how much time we will have.
I have also felt very isolated living with and only seeing socially a mentally ill person who does not want me to get things done and can't get himself together to get them done though he thinks he can. Last night I had a meltdown and said I am going to start calling repair people today, I cannot be patient anymore. I also think with the decline in infection rates it is okay to bring a contractor in the house. The water is getting rustier and I am worried a pipe could burst.
Chicago is up in arms that the appts at the big vaccine center set up at the United Center stadium have been going mostly to whites, Asians, and suburban Cook County residents, not the older people of color who had been the intended recipients at this location. The mayor is danged near on a rampage about this.
Well, perhaps you have to enable people to make appts by phone and staff any phone lines accordingly so people can get through.
Tradd the same thing happened in NYC maybe a month ago. They set up a site in Washington heights, a largely Hispanic neighborhood that was having high infection rates at the time but appointments were only available online at an English only website and if I remember correctly they didn’t even make an effort to have sufficient Spanish speaking people on-site to help.
A friend of mine had an appointment last Saturday at the Jacob javits convention center. She got there and the line was incredibly long. With no idea where, or even if, there was a disabled line (she’s a long hauler who simply would not have been able to wait in the line for any length of time) she had to tell the Uber driver to just take her home.
My son's bil in Philadelphia is severely immuno compromised and has had two organ transplants. He made his appointment and went to get the shot and they had given his shot to someone else.
Not okay.
We’ve had an interesting time at my church with people showing up for services who’ve not signed up. We have a capacity for 40. You have to sign up ahead of time. Priest emails out a Google forms thing and you sign up that way. Even our seniors can handle that. But with it getting close to the beginning of Lent, people are showing up for services out of the blue. They’ve been very strict so they can do contact tracing if needed. There’s talk about putting up signs on the church doors in all the languages of people who might drop in (lots of local Slavs) indicating no one to attend without signup. People dropping in also puts us over our capacity of 40. We have chairs spaced out with bits of tape on the floor marking 6ft between. Really the only way they can keep people out is to lock the doors when the service has started. That might be a bit drastic.
We’ve had an interesting time at my church with people showing up for services who’ve not signed up. We have a capacity for 40. You have to sign up ahead of time. Priest emails out a Google forms thing and you sign up that way. Even our seniors can handle that. But with it getting close to the beginning of Lent, people are showing up for services out of the blue. They’ve been very strict so they can do contact tracing if needed. There’s talk about putting up signs on the church doors in all the languages of people who might drop in (lots of local Slavs) indicating no one to attend without signup. People dropping in also puts us over our capacity of 40. We have chairs spaced out with bits of tape on the floor marking 6ft between. Really the only way they can keep people out is to lock the doors when the service has started. That might be a bit drastic.
Your church is exhibiting responsible behavior and protecting its adherents. Wish they were all that careful.
iris lilies
3-20-21, 1:51pm
A week ago I had back to back rescue dog emergencies that required I spend 10 hours total in a car with someone who isn’t particularly careful with social distancing. In fact she doesn’t mask up and does not socially distance purposely because she’s had the Rona virus twice she says. She has been tested and she has antibodies. Anyway –
Not only did I ride hours in a car, one of the events required that I be with a group of people for quite a while as they dealt with a mama dog giving birth. They were all unmasked, so I,stood back as far ss I could. These events also necessitated eating out in restaurant one time.
I wasn’t happy about it but I had to do it.
So here I am five days later and I’m still healthy, so I guess I’m OK. I got lucky. And I did have Pfizer shot number one under my belt.
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