View Full Version : Conavirus......
I transported an 80-year-old patient to the mainland the other day for essential life-saving surgery. Surgery went fine, both legs were saved, and they'll walk again, and likely live productively for years more.
When I went to return the patient to the island by ferry, post-op, I had reservations on the state ferry system for the journey, and a medical priority loading certificate.
I arrived well-ahead of the scheduled sailing at around noon. The boat was scheduled to leave at about 12:45pm. Well, some of the fine employees of the Washington State Ferry system had decided to stage a sick-out, on 9/10 and 9/11, to protest the vaccination requirement that the State has issued for this class of transport workers.
So, my patient, and about a dozen others, did not arrive home until noon. The NEXT BLOODY DAY. They waited, stuck at the ferry terminal, while the chaos unfolded, as boat after boat got cancelled as crews failed to show up, or walked out. For some of these patients, mine included, this was life threatening.
At the ferry landing on my island on the other end, hundreds of people were stranded overnight, with no food, water, shelter. Our local fire/EMS agency and several social services agencies had to respond to the ferry landing to provide support.
My patience has run out.
A lot of people's patience has run out. I talked with the guy who cut my hair today. He came to the salon because at his previous job all the employees got vaccinated but the owners refused to. Then they mandated that the employees all wear masks to protect them, so he quit. This "your vaccines don't matter you still have to mask up to protect anti-vaxxers" is exactly the policy of my city and it's not fair.
Here are the facts.
1. With school underway outbreaks are still occurring in schools with mask mandates because masks don't stop covid.
2. These outbreaks are not making children seriously ill or in many cases ill at all.
3. The outbreaks are detrimental to unvaccinated adults.
An example is the Miami-Dade public schools where an outbreak killed 13 people. None were children. All were teachers or other staff who refused to get vaccinated.
People are sick and tired of not being able to get back to normal because the government only cares about the anti-vaxxers and doesn't give a s*** about the people who followed public health guidance and got vaccinated. As a result I am hearing more and more people saying they won't get boosters. We are living in an idiotocracy.
GeorgeParker
9-12-21, 5:23pm
I understand feeling suicidal "today is a good day to die", I don't think people with suicide ideation are ridiculous fools. I think they are suffering, that is all."Today is a good day to die" isn't suicidal. It's what you say as you're going into battle. It means "I'm going to fight like hell to stay alive and kill my enemies, and if I die in the process, this is a good day to do it."
"Today is a good day to die" isn't suicidal. It's what you say as you're going into battle.
It's generally the sort of thing people who see too many movies say.
In my business, we say" Omnis Cedo Domus" though.
If people want to try to impress others with dead languages, maybe they should first get the grammar of them down:
https://www.answers.com/Q/What_does_'omnis_cedo_domus'_mean
If people want to try to impress others with dead languages, maybe they should first get the grammar of them down:
https://www.answers.com/Q/What_does_'omnis_cedo_domus'_mean
I did not come up with the translation, Yppej. It is however what is printed on the shields.... I suspect the fellow who got it put there nationwide was not a Latin scholar.
How many burning buildings do you run into each year, btw?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjOfQfxmTLQ
How many burning buildings do you run into each year, btw?
I do have a burn mark on my arm as we speak, from serving others by making popcorn. It is something I did not have to do but volunteered for at work. Everyone was so happy when they could get vaccinated and they all said covid was over. We started providing food and beverages again to those in our essential industry.
If you're vaccinated covid is medically over, but in civil liberties terms it's still not over due to tyrants who like to use pseudo emergencies to make themselves feel important. In my area we have ample hospital capacity, PPE, vaccines, and monoclonal antibody treatments. The "emergency" is fabricated.
If you're vaccinated covid is medically over, ...The "emergency" is fabricated.
Wrong.
happystuff
9-12-21, 6:28pm
bae, she will not believe anything until she actually catches covid in any of its changing forms. And even then... maybe not.
razz had the right idea with a time-out. The Simple Living forum is slowly turning into a Yppej's rant against everyone and everything forum. Most threads are not fun reads any longer. Hopefully time will change things - who knows.
Blessings to all. And, no, I'm not being "run off" - I'll be around. :)
From tonight's news - some hospitals are no longer delivering babies because so many nurses have quit rather than get vaccinated.
From tonight's news - some hospitals are no longer delivering babies because so many nurses have quit rather than get vaccinated.
They probably picked the wrong career.
They probably picked the wrong career.
I had that same thought. I know the media sometimes try to characterize the vaccine noncompliant as red state rustics, but people of color and PhDs also seem to be among the reluctant. But you would expect the medically trained to be among the least resistant.
I had that same thought. I know the media sometimes try to characterize the vaccine noncompliant as red state rustics, but people of color and PhDs also seem to be among the reluctant. But you would expect the medically trained to be among the least resistant.
Tons of people of color in the Chicago area have gotten sick/died from Covid, yet they keep mentioning they don’t want to get vaxxed due to a history of colored folks being guinea pigs for medical experiments. And a lot of them are apparently nursing home workers or home health aids.
iris lilies
9-13-21, 1:01pm
I had that same thought. I know the media sometimes try to characterize the vaccine noncompliant as red state rustics, but people of color and PhDs also seem to be among the reluctant. But you would expect the medically trained to be among the least resistant.
They probably ARE as a whole population better vaccinated, but outliers exist.
My brother who is in respiratory therapy management has had three vaccines so far. He dares to speak an occasional calm truth about media frenzied reports that are politically motivated. He was Timed-out on Facebook, shockingly, some time ago when FB made their big sweep of the politically incorrect.
This is a guy who speaks calmly and rationally, but has the Wrong point of view about many things.
iris lilies
9-13-21, 1:03pm
Tons of people of color in the Chicago area have gotten sick/died from Covid, yet they keep mentioning they don’t want to get vaxxed due to a history of colored folks being guinea pigs for medical experiments. And a lot of them are apparently nursing home workers or home health aids.
I keep seeing this marriage of MAGA hat wearers and black folks as a new episode of “Black Jeopardy, with Tom Hanks” on Saturday Night Live. It would fall into the “They be Sayin’” category for $600
I keep seeing this marriage of MAGA hat wearers and black folks as a new episode of “Black Jeopardy, with Tom Hanks” on Saturday Night Live. It would fall into the “They be Sayin’” category for $600
I LOVE that skit.. Just have to post it and rewatch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7VaXlMvAvk
iris lilies
9-13-21, 1:57pm
I LOVE that skit.. Just have to post it and rewatch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7VaXlMvAvk
I learned about it from you! It is hilarious.
haha! Oh, geez, I'm getting to be that old auntie that keeps repeating herself.
24 minus 8, is not limited?
I was called last month for Jury duty. You need to see if your notice has a call a day before showing. At least locally, they are trying to limit people's exposure and are delaying/settling, etc. All Jurors for that day were released the day before. This releases me for three years.
A doctor is required to state a valid medical reason, under oath. You might try a psychologist or psychiatrist and see if they could provide a note.
Spoke to the nurse today. They said I would need a note from a psychiatrist. Explained I had a $400 deductible and that is burdensome to me but she didn't care. Emailed the court explaining the situation and asking can I do my jury service remotely. Though my brother was telling me today some of the issues with Zoom so I would rather just be excused.
Zoom issues:
1. They want your email log-in info and can then go through your emails.
2. Big tech can compile your image for a facial recognition database that can be subpoenaed by or sold to the government and used to target any class of citizens they want to go after.
iris lilies
9-13-21, 4:19pm
haha! Oh, geez, I'm getting to be that old auntie that keeps repeating herself.
replaying “classics” is always in order.
frugal-one
9-13-21, 7:29pm
bae, she will not believe anything until she actually catches covid in any of its changing forms. And even then... maybe not.
razz had the right idea with a time-out. The Simple Living forum is slowly turning into a Yppej's rant against everyone and everything forum. Most threads are not fun reads any longer. Hopefully time will change things - who knows.
Blessings to all. And, no, I'm not being "run off" - I'll be around. :)
Sounds like a good idea. Think I will join the time-out too for the reasons listed above.
Most threads are not fun reads any longer.
Posted on the coronavirus thread. I never thought of covid as being a fun topic. To each their own.
Posted on the coronavirus thread. I never thought of covid as being a fun topic. To each their own.
Well, for some reason masks have spilled over into public policy, dailies and challenges, workplace issues and probably other categories I’m not remembering at the moment.
Well, for some reason masks have spilled over into public policy, dailies and challenges, workplace issues and probably other categories I’m not remembering at the moment.
Heck, I even got some good sewing machine advice here a year+ ago for my mask-sewing project :-)
Heck, I even got some good sewing machine advice here a year+ ago for my mask-sewing project :-)
My sister in law was on a tear of mask production for a long time. (She’s a retired hospice nurse who focused on hiv patients and also has long enjoyed sewing and quilting as hobbies so making masks for a pandemic was a natural for her). Just this morning my dentist asked if my mask was made with love or purchased, and I assured her it was the former. And since my dentist is freakin’ awesome I asked her to take a selfie with me to send to my sister in law to let her know that her mask skills had been noted and appreciated.
My sister in law was on a tear of mask production for a long time. (She’s a retired hospice nurse who focused on hiv patients and also has long enjoyed sewing and quilting as hobbies so making masks for a pandemic was a natural for her). Just this morning my dentist asked if my mask was made with love or purchased, and I assured her it was the former. And since my dentist is freakin’ awesome I asked her to take a selfie with me to send to my sister in law to let her know that her mask skills had been noted and appreciated.
Nice story! I'm sure your sister-in-law was so happy to see that pic.
ToomuchStuff
9-14-21, 3:18am
Spoke to the nurse today. They said I would need a note from a psychiatrist. Explained I had a $400 deductible and that is burdensome to me but she didn't care. Emailed the court explaining the situation and asking can I do my jury service remotely. Though my brother was telling me today some of the issues with Zoom so I would rather just be excused.
Not sure why you would think either the Doctors office (you agreed to your deductible) or the court would care (constitutional responsibility).
I do agree that Zoom has issues (I would not install their software on my computers, and since I was required to fill out the jurror form online, I used a computer that identifies itself with an OS that the are unlikely to support.
I was prepared to go to court, but followed the instructions of calling the day before. I know they are even trying to avoid capitol cases (woman was found locally, wanted in another state on a murder warrant. The other state didn't want her during covid) Murder there is no statue of limitations, where a lot of misdemeanors will get dropped.
Not sure why you would think either the Doctors office (you agreed to your deductible) or the court would care (constitutional responsibility).
My employer only offers one medical plan. I cannot get a plan on my own through my state's connector because employer based insurance is available to me.
So while it may be naive of me to think anyone would care about my financial hardship (though courts do in some cases - they even have something called a financial hardship form), it's also naive of you to say that I "agreed" to my deductible. I am mandated by my state to carry medical insurance and yet I have no choice as to what policy or deductible I have.
ToomuchStuff
9-14-21, 9:55am
My employer only offers one medical plan. I cannot get a plan on my own through my state's connector because employer based insurance is available to me.
So while it may be naive of me to think anyone would care about my financial hardship (though courts do in some cases - they even have something called a financial hardship form), it's also naive of you to say that I "agreed" to my deductible. I am mandated by my state to carry medical insurance and yet I have no choice as to what policy or deductible I have.
So you don't choose to work there, but are forced to. OK.
So you don't choose to work there, but are forced to. OK.
What world do you live in that people choose their jobs based on the medical deductible rather than the duties, opportunities to learn and grow, effectiveness of management, congeniality of coworkers, other compensation, commute, or dozens of other factors? Or hop jobs in search of lower deductibles which are not guaranteed to stay low from one year to the next?
Medical coverage has no business being tied to employment.
Medical coverage has no business being tied to employment.
+1
Medical coverage has no business being tied to employment.
That has always seemed daft to me.
Medical coverage has no business being tied to employment.
At least in the US, it started as a benefit employers offered during World War II when wages were capped by the government.
At least in the US, it started as a benefit employers offered during World War II when wages were capped by the government.
Ooooooh! Fascinating! That would explain a bit.
At least in the US, it started as a benefit employers offered during World War II when wages were capped by the government.
Proof that things like arbitrary wage caps are a really bad idea. The unintended consequences live on for a long time. Unregulated capitalism certainly has flaws (health care is a really bad fit because people will pay whatever they are asked, and can pay, to try and keep a loved one alive for example, ) but trying to force it to one’s will by means other than changing incentives is not typically successful.
trying to force it to one’s will by means other than changing incentives is not typically successful.
Ditto trying to force people to do things they don't want. There are covid spikes after every holiday because people crave human contact and you can tell them no but most everyone from Deborah Birx to Gavin Newsom will socialize with people outside their household anyways. I was one of the rare exceptions.
We'll see how forcing people to get vaccinated or lose their jobs goes.
We'll see how forcing people to get vaccinated or lose their jobs goes.
We’ll end up with a society with two types of people, those who lost their jobs and got sick, and those who didn’t?
We’ll end up with a society with two types of people, those who lost their jobs and got sick, and those who didn’t?
1. Those who lost their jobs and don't want to work. Will they be able to file for unemployment?
2. Those who lost their jobs and do want to work. There are lots of jobs out there.
3. Those who didn't lose their jobs because they conformed.
According to you we all have to keep wearing masks because vaccines don't work, so you can't tie the illness to those who lost their jobs. People in all three categories might or might not get sick in your theory. I happen to believe in vaccines.
1. Those who lost their jobs and don't want to work. Will they be able to file for unemployment?
2. Those who lost their jobs and do want to work. There are lots of jobs out there.
3. Those who didn't lose their jobs because they conformed.
According to you we all have to keep wearing masks because vaccines don't work, so you can't tie the illness to those who lost their jobs. People in all three categories might or might not get sick in your theory. I happen to believe in vaccines.
Vaccines do work. They don’t work perfectly. You really should become a Republican. Your inability to see all the shades of gray on the Pantone color wheel is remarkable. And kind of sad.
Vaccines do work. They don’t work perfectly. You really should become a Republican. Your inability to see all the shades of gray on the Pantone color wheel is remarkable. And kind of sad.
If vaccines work life should change for the better. And in some places it does. Provincetown, site of an outbreak that did little harm due to vaccination, at first overreacted by reimposing a mask mandate but later came to its senses and dropped it.
For vaccines to work enough people have to take them. Your rage about masks would be better spent figuring out how to get the unvaccinated to take a jab.
For vaccines to work enough people have to take them. Your rage about masks would be better spent figuring out how to get the unvaccinated to take a jab.
My idea is that they should be called the Trump vaccines as they were developed during his presidency at warp speed. The Donald loves anything with his name on it and would then promote the shots to his followers.
For vaccines to work enough people have to take them. Your rage about masks would be better spent figuring out how to get the unvaccinated to take a jab.
They work for those who take them, however many or few that group is. And if people don't want that protection that's on them. It's a free country (sort of).
Heard from the ACLU and they will not take my case on the city mask mandate but they said try the State Attorney General's Civil Rights Office. I will see how things play out locally but I did submit a complaint to the Civil Rights Office on my separate masking for jury duty issue.
Apparently the "death panels" republicans feared so much during the debates about the ACA have come to Idaho, not because of the ACA but because the party of personal responsibility doesn't actually expect people to act personally responsible and now that lack of responsibility is causing other people to die. Yay freedumb.
Apparently the "death panels" republicans feared so much during the debates about the ACA have come to Idaho, not because of the ACA but because the party of personal responsibility doesn't actually expect people to act personally responsible and now that lack of responsibility is causing other people to die. Yay freedumb.
You are correct. Vacc rate is under 50% and the mass gatherings continue because well, you know. Washington hospitals are mad as hell about all the transfers the last few weeks. A rural hospital with 1 ICU room, has converted their cafeteria into an ICU.....perfect place to be if you've had a stroke or a heart attack (and are vaccinated)........
IT.......IS........UGLY! I've never seen MDs cry or have to choke down tears and anger during a press conference.
ApatheticNoMore
9-17-21, 4:28pm
I believe vaccines do work to a significant degree but how much and with how much waning? I have never been more confused about the situation in the entire pandemic.
And I live like vaccines work kinda,I do a lot more, but kinda not, I don't do all I want to.
IT.......IS........UGLY!
Just wait until we're supporting them the rest of their lives because Biden said if you have long covid you qualify for SSI. I guess they join the drug addicts and others disabled by choice feeding at the public trough, or living off the SSI they get because their child(ren) are declared disabled.
The last person to work for a living please turn off the lights. And don't forget taxpayer you're the bad guy for not wanting to wear a mask because you're vaccinated. I guarantee you the covid disabled sitting at home all day won't be wearing one.
I believe vaccines do work to a significant degree but how much and with how much waning? I have never been more confused about the situation in the entire pandemic.
And I live like vaccines work kinda,I do a lot more, but kinda not, I don't do all I want to.
The big issue is the variants. We are 3 variants down the road from what the vaccine was created to destroy. Had we promptly vaccinated to the herd immunity level, as we did for Polio, Smallpox, MMR, etc) we wouldn't be passing around Mu (49 states already). Had we literally closed our borders instead of pretending we did, we would not have brought in any covid from other countries..........the errors in mitigation go on....and on......and on........and we're all living it every stinkin' day.
Crisis Standards of Care.
Rationing healthcare.
Public Health be damned.
Here we are.
Big cats are getting covid. We better put cones on them like dogs get after surgery and stretch masks across the cones.
Or as Chic sings, "Ah, freak out!"
My, admittedly not big, cats have the whole social distancing thing down pat. They avoid contact with all other living creatures that aren’t either SO and me or each other. The only exception they make are fruit flies and other bugs which they like to snack on. For everyone else who comes in our house they hide under the bed so hopefully they will be safe.
My, admittedly not big, cats have the whole social distancing thing down pat. They avoid contact with all other living creatures that aren’t either SO and me or each other. The only exception they make are fruit flies and other bugs which they like to snack on. For everyone else who comes in our house they hide under the bed so hopefully they will be safe.
Just make sure if you ever have to quarantine you board the cats. Yes, "public health" zealotry knows no bounds:
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/07/dog-cat-owners-covid-19-often-pass-it-pets
Despite there not being a single case to pet to human transmission, they still want you to disrupt the lives of your pets. I remember the one time I put a dog in a kennel because I had to go to my brother's wedding. This easygoing dog yowled all the way home when picked up to express his displeasure and chewed completely through his leash while there, the only time he ever did that. We paid extra for him to have play time with other dogs, but it wasn't the same as being with his pack.
But as with humans, psychological trauma from restrictions, including jumps in suicide attempts by teen girls, doesn't matter to these zealots.
Perhaps of relevance:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook-troll-farms-report-us-2020-election
The nerve of health scientists. Being concerned that something could potentially be a problem. Next thing you know we’ll have governors and public health officials taking steps to limit the spread of the disease. How horrifying! It’s my god given right as a ‘murican to infect as many people as I can with my germs.
Up here, in Canada, we’re experiencing a 4th wave - the Delta variant. Most of us have had the first two shots, but no boosters yet. Hubby and I are high risk, so we’re cautious. Thankfully, Nova Scotia doesn’t have many cases yet, and those they do have are either related to travel or someone else who has Covid. Still we have company coming from British Columbia in October. That’s the opposite side of the country. Her plane has to land in two high covid places before reaching us. We are a bit nervous.
The Nova Scotia government has been quick to restrict land and sea traffic into the province if they see a problem developing. Not so much air traffic. Most of our cases come from people flying in and not properly quarantining or self-isolating.
flowerseverywhere
9-18-21, 10:17am
Idaho is rationing care.
https://time.com/6095898/idaho-rationing-covid/ Could be coming to you if people continue to listen to internet and TV self appointed health experts who hawk snake oil cures and anti vaccination. Freedom has a price that unfortunately health care workers are facing along with the largely unvaccinated who are consuming enormous amounts of medical resources. Wait until next years health insurance premium pricing.
flowerseverywhere
9-18-21, 10:21am
This morning someone told me Idaho had such a problem from the dirty disease infested people pouring across the border. Last I knew the had no border with Mexico and their vaccination rate is around 40%.
This morning someone told me Idaho had such a problem from the dirty disease infested people pouring across the border. Last I knew the had no border with Mexico and their vaccination rate is around 40%.
Idaho has a border with Canada.
This morning someone told me Idaho had such a problem from the dirty disease infested people pouring across the border. Last I knew the had no border with Mexico and their vaccination rate is around 40%.
Idaho has such a problem because it's one of the least vaccinated states in the country. There are a lot of white supremacists and related malcontents there (who love to point their nicotine-stained fingers at immigrants from a country that has fewer infected people than we do.
Speaking of borders, it makes me angry that ignorant Idahoans are now breaching Washington's borders and taking up valuable beds when at least the western part of our state is between 70% and 80% vaccinated.
Idaho has a border with Canada.
Yeah, but it's a tiny border, and the idea of Canadians (or anyone, frankly) invading Idaho makes me laugh out loud.
Perhaps of relevance:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook-troll-farms-report-us-2020-election
I see the results of this every day, along with obvious cat-fishers and their fake profiles. It's a jungle out there.
Idaho has such a problem because it's one of the least vaccinated states in the country. There are a lot of white supremacists and related malcontents there (who love to point their nicotine-stained fingers at immigrants from a country that has fewer infected people than we do.
Speaking of borders, it makes me angry that ignorant Idahoans are now breaching Washington's borders and taking up valuable beds when at least the western part of our state is between 70% and 80% vaccinated.
That sounds a lot like the same sentiment someone shared with flowerseverywhere, but at least it is directed to white malcontents with nicotine stained fingers, which probably makes it ok in many circles.
Idaho has a border with Canada.
71% of Albertans have been vaccinated. I don't think those rascally Canadians swarming into Idaho are the problem.
The bad news continues:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/idaho-declares-statewide-hospital-resource-crisis-covid-surge-rcna1997
From the article: "It’s become an ethical challenge, as Washington has been aggressive in its Covid safety measures while Idaho’s state leaders have done little to address the latest surge." This makes me absolutely livid.
To quote Rochelle Walensky, I have a sense of "impending doom" and feel that I should rush out to stores and buy things while I can still do so without wearing a mask and without the stores being shut down. The last stats I heard, last week, were hospitals in my state were at 7% capacity, ICUs at 14%, but the long arms of the health departments continue to snatch back our freedoms regardless of facts. The person I spoke with got the stats from the NIH.
The second largest city in my state put in a mask mandate and the local news said it's because "college students are returning to campus even though most of them are vaccinated". Yep - there are vaccine mandates in higher ed so except for a few religious and medical exemptions they are all vaccinated. Great logic, right?
But treat us like Idaho because we all got vaccinated for nothing and facts don't matter.
I’m in the UK right now. Their Covid testing, tracking, and reporting infrastructure are far superior to what I have observed in the USA. And the general behaviour of the citizens seems generally better - distancing, hand washing, mask wearing, sanitation, and so on.
Latest CDC guidance updated 8/25/21:
"International travel poses additional risks, and even fully vaccinated travelers might be at increased risk for getting and possibly spreading some covid-19 variants."
Link: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/international-travel-during-covid19.html
This includes the UK variant which is "considerably more contagious than the original virus" and "also comes with an increased risk of severe illness and death" according to this link from the NIH:
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/03/30/infections-with-u-k-variant-b-1-1-7-have-greater-risk-of-mortality/
Thank you to everyone who has put off your international travel during the pandemic. You are the real heroes.
happystuff
9-19-21, 9:36am
Hope you are having a good trip and a great visit, bae!
iris lilies
9-19-21, 12:45pm
The bad news continues:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/idaho-declares-statewide-hospital-resource-crisis-covid-surge-rcna1997
From the article: "It’s become an ethical challenge, as Washington has been aggressive in its Covid safety measures while Idaho’s state leaders have done little to address the latest surge." This makes me absolutely livid.
Congratulations to you Jane for taking the bait of mainstream media’s “three stories of the day to rile us up.” JP will be along shortly to provide back up, no doubt.
I didn’t know we were allowed to voice concerns about scarcity in conjunction with borders. That is interesting, and is an idea I can get behind for sure!
https://www.bnd.com/news/coronavirus/article247169186.html
since patients from the liberal controlled, Obama electing, Covid lockdown land known as Illinois come over to our hospitals all the time, it’s hard for me to get upset by this exact thing at this time. I would draw my boundaries bigger than you have, and reserve my distain for persons who are not here legally receiving the scarce medical attention provided by intensive care health services.
It *IS* upsetting that hospital capacity is at serious levels across the country And our healthcare system and healthcare workers are strained. Yes I find that extremely worrisome.
"It *IS* upsetting that hospital capacity is at serious levels across the country And our healthcare system and healthcare workers are strained. Yes I find that extremely worrisome."
Exactly. And our governor (with Oregon's) has taken heat for making sure Washington is as safe and prepared as possible. It makes me angry that Idaho's leadership is so indifferent to what is clearly a crisis, and that people who need critical care may not get it because of his indifference. I'm not fabricating Idaho's hospital crisis.
Teacher Terry
9-19-21, 1:01pm
A kid locally had his appendix burst after being in the ER for 7 hours because they didn’t have the staff to operate or a bed because of Covid. It was on the nightly news. He did survive.
Apparently the pro-death President Of Brazil was forced to eat pizza on the sidewalk after NYC restaurants refused him entry because he isn’t vaccinated. Of course the UN is going to use the ‘honor system’ of vaccine requirements the same way the debate folks used the ‘honor system’ for testing last fall resulting in team trump showing up all diseased. Already one of Bolsonaro’s delegation has tested positive for the covids.
Supposedly vaccines don't protect against breakthrough infections so what does the government do with new variants developing around the globe? Lift travel restrictions on foreign nationals effective in November so they can come flooding into the country for the holidays.
So I have to wear masks because people want to jet set around the globe. This is why people hate elites and almost a year after the election I still see Trump flags, Trump bumper stickers, and Trump signs.
Supposedly vaccines don't protect against breakthrough infections so what does the government do with new variants developing around the globe? Lift travel restrictions on foreign nationals effective in November so they can come flooding into the country for the holidays.
So I have to wear masks because people want to jet set around the globe. This is why people hate elites and almost a year after the election I still see Trump flags, Trump bumper stickers, and Trump signs.
What do the trump flags and bumper stickers have to do with hating elites?
jp1;392291]What do the trump flags and bumper stickers have to do with hating elites?
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: [whispering] Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
What do the trump flags and bumper stickers have to do with hating elites?
Trump ran as a populist. Among other things he said, "I love the poorly educated."
iris lilies
9-21-21, 9:15am
Apparently the pro-death President Of Brazil was forced to eat pizza on the sidewalk after NYC restaurants refused him entry because he isn’t vaccinated. Of course the UN is going to use the ‘honor system’ of vaccine requirements the same way the debate folks used the ‘honor system’ for testing last fall resulting in team trump showing up all diseased. Already one of Bolsonaro’s delegation has tested positive for the covids.
I watch Cash Gordon’s videos on NYC real estate, and there I see that MANY restaurants have adapted to Covid by making outdoor dining areas. I doubt it was much of a sacrifice to eat outside. This sounds like made up drama.
This sounds like made up drama.
The Hidden Persuaders have well-honed their craft.
flowerseverywhere
9-21-21, 9:39am
I watch Cash Gordon’s videos on NYC real estate, and there I see that MANY restaurants have adapted to Covid by making outdoor dining areas. I doubt it was much of a sacrifice to eat outside. This sounds like made up drama.
oh well. When I am in a foreign country I respect their laws and customs. No one is entitled not to.
This disease is deadly; much more so to the foolish than the cautious.
But it is also become extremely tedious, as people insist on superimposing their cultural signifiers and tribal identifiers on it. And ridiculously hypocritical as people try using it as a distraction from various other issues.
Here in the UK, I can receive, for free, one of these 7-test kits every single day. Takes 15 minutes to do a test, reports of test results are trivially accomplished by scanning a QR code on the test if you choose to participate in the test-and-trace app, and it’s all handily linked to my NHS number if desired.
The standard protocol for the folks in my household here, and in the group I am working with, is to test before interacting with others. Every day if need be.
There is also a convenient app and QR codes everywhere that allow you to voluntarily check in when you enter a site or store, and you will get notified if you’ve been close to someone whose test comes up positive.
Meanwhile my partner in the USA has to scramble to locate test kits simply so she can more safely teach her classroom of elementary students. I may smuggle back a case of these tests when/if I return to the USA.
https://i.imgur.com/LLuD2sJ.jpg
I and others have noticed that as mask mandates come back in various towns, some businesses just aren't enforcing it. Everyone has had enough.
Bae, why do you think we don't have similar protocols and test kits available here? Everything here seems chaotic and disorganized.
Bae, why do you think we don't have similar protocols and test kits available here? Everything here seems chaotic and disorganized.
It is a great puzzlement to me, it doesn’t seem to be rocket science.
Jane v2.0
9-21-21, 12:17pm
It is a great puzzlement to me, it doesn’t seem to be rocket science.
It might be explained by the former president's oft-announced disdain for testing. But there's not much excuse for not having widespread availability now.
This disease is deadly; much more so to the foolish than the cautious.
But it is also become extremely tedious, as people insist on superimposing their cultural signifiers and tribal identifiers on it. And ridiculously hypocritical as people try using it as a distraction from various other issues.
Indeed. The Democrats should have realized the futility of having a rational discussion once the conservatives cheered for death at CPAC a few months ago.
ApatheticNoMore
9-21-21, 12:48pm
Maybe we just don't care about whatever issues you think we should care about. People focused on the pandemic because it was an immediate personal threat, much stuff isn't. Now vaccinated I feel less so, but I follow it some to see if I should feel (and act!) more so.
But there are other issues than covid? Well geez, one is perfectly well aware of that. Much of this state has been burning for months upon months, climate change might be an issue. Ok it is a much bigger issue than covid in the long term (and that's probably not very long term). But if there are immediate survival threats one deals with them first.
It is a great puzzlement to me, it doesn’t seem to be rocket science.
Because, as one pundit said, it’s less click-baity and base-engaging than vaccine mandates.
I thought the point of testing is to contain the virus. When there is widespread community spread it's like shutting the barn door after the horse has left. If you tested everyone you would have millions of cases in pretty much every state (maybe not Wyoming because it's so sparsely populated). Wouldn't the media have a field day with that? And yet we've already got the cases we just don't know it.
Apparently the pro-death President Of Brazil was forced to eat pizza on the sidewalk after NYC restaurants refused him entry because he isn’t vaccinated. Of course the UN is going to use the ‘honor system’ of vaccine requirements the same way the debate folks used the ‘honor system’ for testing last fall resulting in team trump showing up all diseased. Already one of Bolsonaro’s delegation has tested positive for the covids. It was widely reported that Bolsonaro was "forced" to eat his pizza outside due to New York's requirement that all indoor restaurant seating required vaccinations. It must have been too juicy to check to see if the restaurant in question even had indoor seating. Someone once said "If you don't read the newspaper you're un-informed. If you do read the newspaper you're mis-informed". I think this is a perfect example.
And for those who like to think they're following "the science" I think the science shows that those persons who have already had Covid (as Bolsonaro has) have natural antibodies that provide a higher, or at least equal level of protection than any current vaccines. So, why would these "science followers" continue to insist that proof of vaccine be a requirement and not allow proof of recovery be considered. It doesn't make sense.
As for the 'honor system' at the UN, well that's just another example of our world leaders holding themselves to a different standard than they insist the rest of us follow. I believe that your mayor has even told us that she "didn't need the fun police to come in and tell her what to do when she's feeling the spirit" after being caught violating her own mandate. Man, you can't make this stuff up.
iris lilies
9-21-21, 7:10pm
It might be explained by the former president's oft-announced disdain for testing. But there's not much excuse for not having widespread availability now.
so joe biden cannot make it happen? Is the puppet master Trump pulling strings to keep this from happening?
Get a GRIP people. Daddy Joe is the President and he can make things happen.
ApatheticNoMore
9-21-21, 8:14pm
And for those who like to think they're following "the science" I think the science shows that those persons who have already had Covid (as Bolsonaro has) have natural antibodies that provide a higher, or at least equal level of protection than any current vaccines.
you may think so but this is much disputed.
you may think so but this is much disputed.
Natural immunity is a wonderful thing, but I'm not willing to risk my life in hopes of getting it. And given the number of people who have lost that gamble lately, I can't imagine who would.
so joe biden cannot make it happen? Is the puppet master Trump pulling strings to keep this from happening?
Get a GRIP people. Daddy Joe is the President and he can make things happen.
The tracking and tracing train left the station 18 months ago. It only works if 1) people are willing to participate which many Americans are not, and 2) if the number of infections is low enough to make it manageable, which is obviously not the case in much of the US because ‘muh freedumb’. At this point all we can do is hope that Alan’s speculation that the diseased who don’t die actually are immune for some length of time. Between those folks and the rest of us who were smart enough to get vaccinated we will hopefully achieve herd immunity.
It was widely reported that Bolsonaro was "forced" to eat his pizza outside due to New York's requirement that all indoor restaurant seating required vaccinations. It must have been too juicy to check to see if the restaurant in question even had indoor seating. Someone once said "If you don't read the newspaper you're un-informed. If you do read the newspaper you're mis-informed". I think this is a perfect example.
.
While unlikely it’s certainly possible that bolsonaro intended to eat pizza for dinner. After all nyc has some fantastic pizza by the slice.*. But the reality is that even if he did intend to experience New York’s famed pizza, given the weather most of the by the slice places have at least a few indoor seats.
*fun nyc pizza fact: the average price of a slice in nyc has generally tracked the cost of a subway token since WWII. (Subway token obviously being a euphemism for the cost of transit in the city since tokens have not been used for a couple of decades now)
ApatheticNoMore
9-22-21, 2:00am
I don't think the point of the home test kits is to track and trace and isolate and quarantine on a mass scale and thus suppress the virus. So yes that didn't happen, maybe couldn't happen given porous borders. But it never happened in the UK either of course. I think the point is for conscientious people (they are the ones who would voluntarily) to test themselves before they interact with others, especially if they have symptoms. Thus reducing the spread of the virus. It might also help in collecting data (on breakthrough infections etc.)
Why don't we have it? Who knows. I mean the truth is most of us expect very little from the U.S. government in terms of handling the pandemic well at this point. So why don't we expect it? Too many months of nonsense. The vaccine mandates I understand because it's an out of control situation some places.
But then the UK is not generally top on anyone's list of handling the pandemic well either! But it probably is easier to implement sending out and integrating home test kits in an NHS style system (if you doubt that consider that here you had to show an insurance card before getting a vaccine even though the government paid, even though that probably discouraged at least a few people from vaccination). But even then it doesn't seem like it would be impossible here. But nothing has been handled well, and noone even expects it to be.
I did not have to show an insurance card to get either dose, each at a different place.
flowerseverywhere
9-22-21, 11:34am
A 66 year old fully vaccinated friend is in the hospital with Covid and five people who had been around her tested positive so far. ICU's still over 90℅ full around me. Our vaccination rate is now close to 55% but I never see anyone wearing a mask except in large chain stores that mandate them. However their nose is hanging out or they are on their chins.
GeorgeParker
9-22-21, 12:23pm
It was widely reported that Bolsonaro was "forced" to eat his pizza outside due to New York's requirement that all indoor restaurant seating required vaccinations.It was obviously a cynical publicity stunt and a pre-planned photo op.
https://www.google.com/search?channel=fs&client=ubuntu&q=bolsonaro+pizza+new+york
If someone like that is hungry they can have whatever they want to eat brought to them on a silver tray in their limo or their hotel room.
It was obviously a cynical publicity stunt and a pre-planned photo op.
It was actually an Instagram post by someone in the entourage labeled "Lets go for pizza and a Coca Cola", which was then picked up by media for their own purposes. It seems less like a "publicity stunt" by the group and more like a "see what happens to selfish people who want people to die when they visit a civilized city" stunt by the media, which seems to have worked as it was even presented that way on this thread.
If someone like that is hungry they can have whatever they want to eat brought to them on a silver tray in their limo or their hotel room. Of course they could, that's another reason why the "forced to eat on the sidewalk" narrative is so ridiculous.
GeorgeParker
9-22-21, 1:57pm
It was actually an Instagram post by someone in the entourage labeled "Lets go for pizza and a Coca Cola", which was then picked up by media for their own purposes.Posting it on Instagram with a we're just having fun headline and then quietly calling the media's attention to it with a whispered narrative of "this is what really happened" is called "plausible deniability". The general public is shown the publicity stunt and outraged headlines the celebrity wants, and the celebrity's staff can politely deny that they had anything to do with the photo being misrepresented.
I'm more cynical than you about this politician, and you're apparently more cynical about the media than I am. But the truth is neither of us will ever know for sure what really happened or who promoted the "forced to eat on sidewalk" narrative.
The tracking and tracing train left the station 18 months ago. It only works if 1) people are willing to participate which many Americans are not, and 2) if the number of infections is low enough to make it manageable, which is obviously not the case in much of the US because ‘muh freedumb’. At this point all we can do is hope that Alan’s speculation that the diseased who don’t die actually are immune for some length of time. Between those folks and the rest of us who were smart enough to get vaccinated we will hopefully achieve herd immunity.
Look to Idaho for the evidence. Governor Little said Idaho citizens will do the responsible thing so no restrictions while hospitals are devastated, staff are beyond exhausted and the vaccinated who arrive with significant injury wait hours and hours to be seen. >:(
the vaccinated who arrive with significant injury wait hours and hours to be seen. >:(
That's on the hospitals for prioritizing people who chose to get covid by not getting vaccinated over the vaccinated. They could change their triage standards.
ETA: They could also move overdose cases down the priority list.
I'm more cynical than you about this politician, and you're apparently more cynical about the media than I am. But the truth is neither of us will ever know for sure what really happened or who promoted the "forced to eat on sidewalk" narrative.
Pizzas and Sidewalks and Whips, Oh My!
That's on the hospitals for prioritizing people who chose to get covid by not getting vaccinated over the vaccinated. They could change their triage standards.
ETA: They could also move overdose cases down the priority list.
Would you apply the same standard to other unhealthy actors? Smokers or the obese, for instance.
A friend who attended a masked and vaccinated concert recently in Oregon just got a quick test to reassure herself. She came back from Texas a while back, where she was publicly mocked for wearing a mask. Two different worlds.
Would you apply the same standard to other unhealthy actors? Smokers or the obese, for instance.
Yep. I have been packing on the pounds - twenty since covid started - and if I have adverse health effects that's on me. I would fully expect a healthier, especially a younger and healthier person, to be triaged ahead of me.
Yep. I have been packing on the pounds - twenty since covid started - and if I have adverse health effects that's on me. I would fully expect a healthier, especially a younger and healthier person, to be triaged ahead of me.
Don’t those people have enough to think about without making moral evaluations of their patients?
ApatheticNoMore
9-22-21, 9:31pm
Don’t those people have enough to think about without making moral evaluations of their patients?
definitely, it's why you don't want hospitals to reach that overwhelm to begin with, but if they do, believe it did here in winter, it wasn't left up to individual hosptials, whole crisis care standards had been developed.
GeorgeParker
9-22-21, 9:47pm
Yep. I have been packing on the pounds - twenty since covid started - and if I have adverse health effects that's on me. I would fully expect a healthier, especially a younger and healthier person, to be triaged ahead of me.That's not triage!
Triage means you treat the people who will probably survive with treatment and die without it first. You treat the people who need treatment but won't die if treatment is delayed next. And the people who will probably die even if you give them immediate treatment last. Of course whether someone is in category one or category three is often a judgement call. And someone with a 90% chance of dying even if you give them the best possible treatment, would usually get treated ahead of someone who only has superficial scrapes and bruises.
The point is, triage treats patients based on severity of injuries and how likely it is that fast treatment will significantly improve their outcome. It has nothing to do with whether or not someone thinks the person deserves to be sick/injured.
That's not triage!
Triage means you treat the people who will probably survive with treatment and die without it first. You treat the people who need treatment but won't die if treatment is delayed next. And the people who will probably die even if you give them immediate treatment last. Of course whether someone is in category one or category three is often a judgement call. And someone with a 90% chance of dying even if you give them the best possible treatment, would usually get treated ahead of someone who only has superficial scrapes and bruises.
The point is, triage treats patients based on severity of injuries and how likely it is that fast treatment will significantly improve their outcome. It has nothing to do with whether or not someone thinks the person deserves to be sick/injured.
Obesity has a high correlation with covid-19 mortality. It's not a moral judgment, it's a fact.
A guy at work was just telling us yesterday about a couple in the area in their forties with four kids. They both just died of covid. Their only risk factor was obesity. The kids are all medically fine, in keeping with the fact that covid rarely impacts children. Neither parent was vaccinated.
Being unvaccinated also correlates to covid mortality.
happystuff
9-23-21, 9:54am
A 66 year old fully vaccinated friend is in the hospital with Covid and five people who had been around her tested positive so far. ICU's still over 90℅ full around me. Our vaccination rate is now close to 55% but I never see anyone wearing a mask except in large chain stores that mandate them. However their nose is hanging out or they are on their chins.
I hope your friend heals quickly and with no long term effects.
Kingston, MA put in a mask mandate and there were so many complaints 12 hours later they rescinded it. I wish people in my city were as concerned about the loss of personal liberties.
I have a triage kit in my response gear, training in what to do, and have had to use it in unpleasant real life situations. Not a fun time.
GeorgeParker
9-23-21, 11:27am
Obesity has a high correlation with covid-19 mortality. It's not a moral judgment, it's a fact.What is your point???? How does that have anything to do with you saying "if I have adverse health effects [because of being fat] that's on me. I would fully expect a healthier, especially a younger and healthier person, to be triaged ahead of me."?
If you getting immediate treatment will improve the odds of you living, and your risk of dying will be higher if treatment is delayed, then medically and morally you should be treated ahead of a younger healthier person who is at less risk of dying. That is the essence of triage. Deciding to delay treatment because you think the sick person "deserves" to be sick, is indeed making a judgement about their character and unethical.
What is your point???? How does that have anything to do with you saying if being fat caused you to be sick you "would fully expect a healthier, especially a younger and healthier person, to be triaged ahead of [you]"?
If your odds of living will be better if you get immediate treatment, and your risk of dying is higher if treatment is delayed, then medically and morally you should be treated ahead of a younger healthier person who is at less risk of dying. That is the essence of triage. Deciding to delay treatment because you think the sick person "deserves" to be sick, is indeed making a judgement about their character and unethical.
If it were congenital diabetes or anything else, not under my control, I would still expect the healthier, younger person to be given preference over me. They have many years of life ahead of them. I am on the downward slope. If resources are limited why expend them on me to give me X number of years of additional life if someone else can be given XX years, and they are more likely to rebound from being on a ventilator, which causes many problems?
GeorgeParker
9-23-21, 11:52am
If it were congenital diabetes or anything else, not under my control, I would still expect the healthier, younger person to be given preference over me. They have many years of life ahead of them. I am on the downward slope. If resources are limited why expend them on me to give me X number of years of additional life if someone else can be given XX years, and they are more likely to rebound from being on a ventilator, which causes many problems?That is a moral question which each person will have to decide for themself. You are totally free to refuse treatment or insist on being put at the back of the line, if you're conscious, but when you talk about triage you're asking the doctor to make a medical decision based on which person he thinks deserves to live or deserves to die. If you don't see the difference between those two situations, there is nothing I can say to you that will make you understand why I think your opinion is wrong.
That is a moral question which each person will have to decide for themself. You are totally free to refuse treatment or insist on being put at the back of the line, if you're conscious, but when you talk about triage you're asking the doctor to make a medical decision based on which person he thinks deserves to live or deserves to die. If you don't see the difference between those two situations, there is nothing I can say to you that will make you understand why I think your opinion is wrong.
So if you had a baby that could live ninety years, and a terminal patient in their nineties who could live a few more days, and each needs immediate treatment, you would view them the same? I think most people are more utilitarian than that.
So if you had a baby that could live ninety years, and a terminal patient in their nineties who could live a few more days, and each needs immediate treatment, you would view them the same?
That is pretty much the opposite of what GeorgeParker was saying.
One thing I just thought about was that my pre-pandemic monthly or door knocks from the Jehovah Witnesses have ended. I always thought they were nice people and never were imposing when unwelcome. They must feel stifled since spreading the word is one of their prime faith directives.
Rogar, one of my dive buddies is a JW. They’ve been having online services/meetings since last March and no end of that in sight. Buddy said it’s very strange going this long without the door to door.
The JW sent us a letter at work with a business card so we could contact them.
Teacher Terry
9-26-21, 2:07am
Unfortunately some religions teach that you can only go to heaven by converting others. Ugh!
ToomuchStuff
9-26-21, 6:24am
Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, and anybody else who comes to my door trying to preach their religion to me, or mails their monthly newsletter to every house within a 4 mile radius of their church in an effort to win converts, or tries to buttonhole people on the street so they can preach to them, or engages in any similar activities trying to push their specific religious viewpoint onto everyone else should all go to hell.
Don't like EULA's, like to argue/debate, I would have figured you would have welcomed them and posted this and made it worth your while at $3000 an hour:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082FQFNDM
39963995
I don’t have much of a problem with people knocking at my door…
https://i.imgur.com/dapsf3M.jpg
Looks like a few areas where Christmas caroling is definitely out.
happystuff
9-26-21, 9:59am
Definitely would deter trick-or-treaters. LOL
Here former FDA commissioner Scott Gottlieb talks about masks not being the answer to Delta:
https://www.axios.com/scott-gottlieb-cdc-guidance-delta-variant-spread-8b33b31b-6994-4e4f-99b0-234e216d7854.html
iris lilies
9-26-21, 10:59am
Definitely would deter trick-or-treaters. LOL
I would break in to kiss his smooshy face and caress his long soft ears.
The other day, on the island that is the county seat of my county, about a dozen anti-vax/anti-mask protestors boldly engaged in public protest inside the local food markets. Markets that have a strict mask-required policy. (Posted right next to the shirts/shoes require policy). The protestors even had printed up special t-shirts.
Anyways, the Sheriff showed up, escorted them off the property for trespassing, and they are now banned for life from the food markets on the island. Good planning.
The protestors are now making threatening social media postings targeting market employees.
I can see this ending well.
flowerseverywhere
9-29-21, 4:53am
The other day, on the island that is the county seat of my county, about a dozen anti-vax/anti-mask protestors boldly engaged in public protest inside the local food markets. Markets that have a strict mask-required policy. (Posted right next to the shirts/shoes require policy). The protestors even had printed up special t-shirts.
Anyways, the Sheriff showed up, escorted them off the property for trespassing, and they are now banned for life from the food markets on the island. Good planning.
The protestors are now making threatening social media postings targeting market employees.
I can see this ending well.
how ridiculous. How long does it take to grocery shop? You can’t wear a mask for the short time?
since when is it legal to threaten people?
bunch of spoiled babies.
how ridiculous. How long does it take to grocery shop? You can’t wear a mask for the short time?
...bunch of spoiled babies
Close contact for purposes of covid is within 6 feet of someone for 15 minutes or more during a 24 hour period per the CDC:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/quarantine-isolation.html
You don't get that shopping at a supermarket. You can't let someone be free because of a few seconds when they pass you in the aisle? Checkout lines are 6 feet apart.
Or better yet, get your damn vaccine you spoiled baby instead of expecting everyone else to alter their behavior.
happystuff
9-29-21, 10:33am
The other day, on the island that is the county seat of my county, about a dozen anti-vax/anti-mask protestors boldly engaged in public protest inside the local food markets. Markets that have a strict mask-required policy. (Posted right next to the shirts/shoes require policy). The protestors even had printed up special t-shirts.
Anyways, the Sheriff showed up, escorted them off the property for trespassing, and they are now banned for life from the food markets on the island. Good planning.
The protestors are now making threatening social media postings targeting market employees.
I can see this ending well.
I feel bad for the market owners, employees and other customers. With threats being made, I really hope no one gets hurt.
My understanding is that the Delta variant is more communicable in less time than the original was.
One thing that strikes me as odd is that with all the heat generated for and against vaccines and masks, we don’t see the same level of craziness surrounding hand-washing. I wonder why that is.
I heard back from a foundation that represents people for free who are suing over mask mandates and I returned an intake form they sent me. They mainly deal with schoolchildren so I don't know if they will take my case, but fingers crossed.
#IDidn'tGetVaccinatedForNothing
I agree that threats and violence are not the way to go. There are other ways to oppose the dictators.
Market Basket, a supermarket chain in my area, told employees if they got vaccinated they wouldn't have to wear masks, but now they're making them anyways. Some have quit. As if that's not bad enough yesterday I saw two managers not wearing masks while all the front line employees had to. I sent an email to their corporate office complaining among other things that the covid slogan is supposed to be, "We're all in this together" not "Do as I say, not as I do".
If covid ever goes away you’re going to have to come up with a very time consuming hobby to fill the void in your life when you no longer can spend so much time raging about masks.
If covid ever goes away you’re going to have to come up with a very time consuming hobby to fill the void in your life when you no longer can spend so much time raging about masks.
There are many things I would like to do, but won't due to mask mandates. Two years in a row my vacation plans have been ruined by overbearing officials. So there will be plenty of leisure catching up for me to do IF life ever gets back to normal.
Unfortunately we are setting ourselves up for lots of medical problems down the road by wearing masks. I was talking with my neighbor the other day and he was saying our bodies need to be exposed to germs to develop immunity. With a mask, you aren't.
I have read that one reason more kids are asthmatic today is that homes are too clean. It's called the hygiene hypothesis. Here is the article from the FDA:
https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/consumers-biologics/asthma-hygiene-hypothesis
The article discusses RSV. No surprise that pediatric wards started filling with RSV cases after children were forced to wear masks.
There are so many unintended consequences of masks life may never get back to normal, though I hope it does.
Another term for this is "the cure is worse than the disease".
700,000 Americans and another couple thousand every day would disagree with you about how bad the disease is.* And an awful lot of medical professionals that have long worn masks all day every day at work would disagree with your neighbor. But I'm sure he knows more than scientists do. After all, if there's one good thing about this pandemic, it's that it has given lots of closet virology experts the chance to really shine and share their expertise with the world.
*Admittedly quite a few of these people were older or had other health issues so they don't really count to some people.
700,000 Americans and another couple thousand every day would disagree with you about how bad the disease is.* And an awful lot of medical professionals that have long worn masks all day every day at work would disagree with your neighbor. But I'm sure he knows more than scientists do. After all, if there's one good thing about this pandemic, it's that it has given lots of closet virology experts the chance to really shine and share their expertise with the world.
*Admittedly quite a few of these people were older or had other health issues so they don't really count to some people.
The world death rate has not increased due to covid but remains stable at 7.7 per 1000 from 2016 to the present:
https://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=xx&v=26
So the people who died are so old or feeble they would have died anyways. There is no excess mortality.
Also, some deaths are being classed as covid deaths so hospitals get higher reimbursements or, as Iris Lilies has posted about, so families get free funerals.
My neighbor doesn't have any financial stake in exaggerating covid deaths. I've lived next to him over 24 years and trust him a lot more than my Board of Health officials.
Chicken lady
10-3-21, 1:43pm
The graph you are referencing covers “deaths mid year” and goes to 2020, not the present. So, worldwide, deaths per 1,000 held steady until June of 2020.
interestingly, if you pull up the graph if infant mortality on the same site, you can see that more children survived infancy, so more people who were not infants died.
JP, did the people in this article die of tuberculosis, or something else?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/canadas-residential-schools-were-a-horror/
Similarly, when someone on their last legs dies of covid, was it really covid, or was covid the straw that broke the camel's back?
interestingly, if you pull up the graph if infant mortality on the same site, you can see that more children survived infancy, so more people who were not infants died.
As you would expect with an aging population:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_ageing#:~:text=The%20aged%20population% 20is%20currently,surpassed%20700%20million%20in%20 2006.
ApatheticNoMore
10-3-21, 1:52pm
India's excess death toll during the pandemic was 3 to 4 million, official total 400k, but the excess deaths are over-counting, fake news, blah blah blah. FAKE NEWS!! The press is an enemy of the people!!!
VAST LEFT WING CONSPIRACIES:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/07/20/1018438334/indias-pandemic-death-toll-estimated-at-about-4-million-10-times-the-official-co
old disposable fogies:
Speaking at a press conference on Tuesday, health secretary Rajesh Bhushan said that 53% of the people who died due to the viral infection are aged above 60. “Also, 35% of the deaths were recorded in the age group of 45-60 years, 10% in the age group of 26-44 years and 1% each in the age group of 18-25 years and below 17 years,” Bhushan said.
happystuff
10-3-21, 2:41pm
700,000 Americans and another couple thousand every day would disagree with you about how bad the disease is.
It is easy for some folks to be callus about death - of the old or young - when the deaths don't touch you (generic you - no one in particular) personally. Until it hits close to home and is a directly related parent, sibling, or child, it's easy to minimize all the deaths. Multiply the number of deaths - either just in the U.S. or world-wide - by those directly related/affected by each of those individual deaths, and the numbers are astounding as to how bad the disease is on a personal level.
I read somewhere that the seasonal flu kills between 20 and 60 thousand people in any given year, in contrast.
Chicken lady
10-3-21, 2:50pm
Let me rephrase that.
One would expect a certain number of older people to die each year. In an aging population, that would lead to x number of deaths per 1,000.
had infant mortality stayed the same the population would have been aging faster, so x would be higher each year for the same number of actual deaths. Let’s call that x+y (y representing the shift due to the higher percentage of old people)
by improving infant mortality, we increase the size of the younger population without increasing the raw number of older people , so we get x +(y-z) z representing the adjustment due to the counter shift in percentage of older people caused by a higher number of surviving infants.
on the chart, x = x+(y-z) however, if you look at the infant mortality chart, without some cause increasing the actual number of people at each age after infancy who die. X should be greater than x+ (y-z)
net mortality rates should have been going down even with an aging population, because the population is aging due to fewer births. The raw number of deaths is being cut significantly due to improved levels of infant mortality.
It's not all about the old people who yppej thinks don't matter. Half the lost life expectancy was in the 25-64 age group.
https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/covid-19/covid-19-cost-us-9m-years-life-expectancy
"They found that the COVID-19 pandemic resulted in 9.08 million years of excess lost life through March 2021, with 4.67 million years lost by those aged 25 to 64 years."
Off the cuff prediction, all of our health insurance costs are going to soar over the coming years as covid unnecessarily becomes endemic due to the selfish behavior of the unvaxxed.
It's not all about the old people who yppej thinks don't matter. Half the lost life expectancy was in the 25-64 age group.
https://www.healthleadersmedia.com/covid-19/covid-19-cost-us-9m-years-life-expectancy
"They found that the COVID-19 pandemic resulted in 9.08 million years of excess lost life through March 2021, with 4.67 million years lost by those aged 25 to 64 years."
Off the cuff prediction, all of our health insurance costs are going to soar over the coming years as covid unnecessarily becomes endemic due to the selfish behavior of the unvaxxed.
Let's say 10 people die of covid. One is a very sick 2 year old on a breathing tube before getting covid, because that is the type of child who dies of it. Don't take my word for it, read the well respected Nature article:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01897-w
Then say the other 9 are all 75 years old. Life expectancy in the US is 78.7.
Let's round down to the nearest whole number to make the math simple.
So the researcher will say 78 - 2 = 76.
78 - 75 = 3
3 x 9 = 27
27 + 76 = 103
The researcher will then say three quarters of lost life expectancy is among those who are not seniors and it's not just a pandemic of the old.
This ignores that the 2 year old was not going to live a normal lifespan. It ignores the fact that 90% of the fatalities are septuaginarians.
Speaking of ignores, you haven't responded to the article on tuberculosis I asked you about.
ApatheticNoMore
10-3-21, 4:43pm
Maybe old people's lives are worth more in a sense, as they are generally happier than middle age people, but also happier than young people. So if we are counting number of happy years left the discrepancy may not be that great as number of years left.
Maybe old people's lives are worth more in a sense, as they are generally happier than middle age people, but also happier than young people. So if we are counting number of happy years left the discrepancy may not be that great as number of years left.
Except that final years can be plagued by painful illness, dementia, loss of autonomy. And in your reasoning wouldn't the younger and middle aged people also have those good older years if they lived?
No matter how you slice it 9 million years of lost life in just one year due to covid is a big ****ing tragedy. That’s an average of nearly 4 months for every man, woman and child in America. It’s not by a long shot just old and frail people. Trying to justify it as no big deal comes across as a remarkable lack of empathy.
happystuff
10-3-21, 5:31pm
Let's say 10 people die of covid.
And let's say one of those is your son and another is your mother and another is your father and another is your brother.
Except that final years can be plagued by painful illness, dementia, loss of autonomy. And in your reasoning wouldn't the younger and middle aged people also have those good older years if they lived?
You would still say and feel "Oh, well - their final years can be plagued by painful illness, dementia, loss of autonomy, etc.", that they would eventually die of something anyway?
Continued prayers to you and yours, and that you won't suffer the personal loss of lives that have hit so many.
Just so much wow.
Yup... Someone doesn't have much self awareness to realize that they are the other side of the same coin as the anti-vaxxers . same song, different verse !Splat!
On Fareed Zakaria today, he was talking to Sanjay Gupta about COVID, and they both brought up how other countries have done a better job of handling COVID than the US. The topic veered towards respect for the elders in ex-US countries--how in the US the elderly are disposable, not revered, as they are in many other countries. And the Big Question was: if COVID had been a disease that attacked young people, what would the response have been in the US? Would we have responded differently?
I am 69. If I died of COVID my husband would lose his source of income. My young grandchildren would lose a grandmother. I don't mind dying if that's what's on the wall. But I do mind people dismissing my continuing value to this life. I want to live.
But enough about me.
And let's say one of those is your son and another is your mother and another is your father and another is your brother.
Totally unrealistic scenario as they are all vaccinated and vaccines work. Covid-19 in the US is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated who are choosing to die. By wearing masks to give them a false sense of security people are enabling the irresponsible behavior of the anti-vaxxers. I don't give to panhandlers because I don't want to enable the opioid epidemic and I avoid masked situations because I am not codependent with anti-vaxxers.
Chicken lady
10-3-21, 7:12pm
I went to buy some essential supplies this week - curbside as always as the merchant does not require or request masks. In fact, the outside of the building has been covered with very mask hostile posters for some time and the store ignored our state mask mandate when it was in effect.
the posters were gone. The doors and windows were open for ventilation. And the proprietor told me he lost a dear friend - healthy, 42, and fully vaccinated - to covid last week.
all I could do was say I was sorry.
Thought you would enjoy the perspective from a friend who just returned from a trip to Africa out in the bush.
COVID 9/29- INDIANA population 6.7 million. 3,399 new cases, 33 deaths, 15,658 dead.
Zambia- population 19 million. 44 new cases, 0 deaths, 3,648 dead.
New cases might be undercounted. We saw lots of tests avail at airports…but you pay for them. Are deaths undercounted? Maybe. But again staff was surprised I knew people with Covid and a few who have died. But with this said every country we visited was level 4–do not travel high risk when we left. Botswana and S Africa still are. Zambia and Zimbabwe are level 2 moderate risk now—get fully vaccinated before travel.
Our temperature was taken more times in 2 weeks than in 2 years throughout Africa. Mask requirement indoors and outdoors. Social distancing is big. Hand sanitation is obnoxious. You mostly have no choice but to have this stuff put on you non-stop. Entering airport, entering security, boarding plane, exiting plane, spray in plane with all aboard, sprayed going through one sirport, camps too…too much sanitation. Welcome back to camp -sanitize. Pré-mesl sanitize..into museum sanitize. Get cart for luggage sanitize. PCA test required at every border crossing. Oh! And sanitize temp check. Always.
COVID seems to be more of an issue in big population centers. Were people compliant there? Definitely not in one area of S Africa. Should have paid more attention going through large village area in Zambia. We also saw a large # of people in line trying to get into a S Africa hospital. I have no words for this. Suspect Covid was largely responsible.
Camp #1 - do any of you even know anyone who has had Covid? Answer: 1 teacher in a village about an hour away. She recovered. In 2 years! Meanwhile I am notified of new cases of family, friends with this virus while away.
Oh…Botswana to reduce social gatherings banned alcohol use, sales, closed bars etc. Lifted on day 3 of our trip. It was in effect for about 4 months. They don’t have hospitals and staff to deal with people sick. True throughout Africa. So they approached it this way or have had restrictions on movement in the country etc.
Those we encountered in tourist areas/camps were vaccinated. Exception-camp 1. Seldom did staff approach us in a camp without a mask. At one camp we had to wear the stupid mask outdoors until at our table for a meal. Didn’t matter if no one else was around. We were covered if someone did approach. And staff did.
Masks Our option on safari. Masks sometimes on, mostly off. Sometimes I wore them as a filter for pollen and dust. Especially early am and evenings. Otherwise I cough and flip everyone out due to allergies. Not good. Don’t need to get quarantined for this. And I get a sore throat and scare myself.
Overall…given the fact we were mostly with vaccinated people, sleeping with outside air, eating in outside air and on safari driving/walking in outside air, I think risk was lower than here. More caution was exercised in Africa. Just my thoughts…for this style trip. No way were we going into villages/population centers.
Maybe we should put on masks and social distance? Maybe?
My brother was just talking about Africa the other day. He said while few are vaccinated they have far fewer covid deaths per capita than in the US because most people there are thin. By contrast 74% of Americans are overweight and 43% are obese. It is so common people don't even think about it. So if someone who looks like most Americans dies people don't say weight was a factor, but it probably was.
My brother was just talking about Africa the other day. He said while few are vaccinated they have far fewer covid deaths per capita than in the US because most people there are thin. By contrast 74% of Americans are overweight and 43% are obese. It is so common people don't even think about it. So if someone who looks like most Americans dies people don't say weight was a factor, but it probably was.
Yes, Sanjay Gupta said the "diseases of affluence" was a factor in COVID risk, but just a risk factor. The people I know who died of COVID were far from affluent and not obese--i.e., "they didn't do it to themselves." I do believe that judgement has no role in COVID policy. We are all in this together.
Yes, Sanjay Gupta said the "diseases of affluence" was a factor in COVID risk, but just a factor. The people I know who died of COVID were far from affluent.
What countries did the people you know who died of covid live in?
What countries did the people you know who died of covid live in?
The U.S.
The U.S.
In the US if you're not affluent it's harder to eat a healthy diet with fresh produce and easier to subsist on cheap processed foods. So while the people you knew who died of covid weren't affluent it doesn't necessarily follow that they escaped the effects of the sad SAD (standard American diet).
"they didn't do it to themselves." I do believe that judgement has no role in COVID policy. We are all in this together.
Possibly you could make this argument pre-vaccine. Now if you can get a vaccine and you won't you absolutely did do it to yourself, and you're not doing your part, so we're not in it together because you're bowing out.
On 9/11 just under 3,000 people died. And look at how we responded to that. Anyone who has taken off their shoes at an airport or had to show their driver’s license to enter an office building, recently knows that we’re still responding to it. Covid has killed 700,000 people and our response has been half-assed and from a lot of people a shrug of the shoulders at exponentially more harm. It’s baffling.
And you with your anti masking is just as bad as the anti vaxxers
https://youtu.be/ltjBT_TuUVA
And you with your anti masking is just as bad as the anti vaxxers
Masks won't save us, vaccines will. False equivalency.
On 9/11 just under 3,000 people died. And look at how we responded to that. Anyone who has taken off their shoes at an airport or had to show their driver’s license to enter an office building, recently knows that we’re still responding to it. Covid has killed 700,000 people and our response has been half-assed and from a lot of people a shrug of the shoulders at exponentially more harm. It’s baffling.
Flying is optional for most people, whereas covid restrictions have touched every aspect of life. George W. Bush said go shopping, don't let the terrorists win by gutting our economy, don't give in to fear. With covid the message was the opposite. People lost businesses, the right to practice their religion, the right to leave their house even to go out in their yard, etc.
Flying is optional for most people, whereas covid restrictions have touched every aspect of life. George W. Bush said go shopping, don't let the terrorists win by gutting our economy, don't give in to fear. With covid the message was the opposite. People lost businesses, the right to practice their religion, the right to leave their house even to go out in their yard, etc.
Keep up with your sad perspective. Apparently that is good for people who want to pretend that they aren’t responsible for lots of death. Yeah dead people.
If you actually cared you’d be planning a move to Florida, texas, Idaho or Alaska. Lots of dead people there. most of them must be old so **** em ‘right???’
Keep up with your sad perspective. Apparently that is good for people who want to pretend that they aren’t responsible for lots of death. Yeah dead people.
I am not responsible for anyone's death. My state does extensive contact tracing and I have not been tied to a single case.
Try facts, not hyperbole.
And beware official causes of death, as in the article about "TB deaths" I posted a link to that you never read or responded to.
I posted a link to that you never read or responded to.
I’m sorry. I didn’t realize it was a requirement that I respond to every one of your posts where you bitch and moan about a little piece of cloth.
I’m sorry. I didn’t realize it was a requirement that I respond to every one of your posts where you bitch and moan about a little piece of cloth.
The article is not about masks. It is about false medical diagnoses.
The article is not about masks. It is about false medical diagnoses.
Is that your new obsession?
Is that your new obsession?
I guess I am a little obsessed with truth, justice and freedom. Twelve of my ancestors fought in the American Revolution against British tyranny, so I come by it honestly.
ApatheticNoMore
10-4-21, 11:27am
I guess I am a little obsessed with truth, justice and freedom. Twelve of my ancestors fought in the American Revolution against British tyranny, so I come by it honestly.
Just don't drag the rest of us who live in this country down with your obsessive obsessions, we don't want to live 250 years ago, we think measures to prevent death in a pandemic are appropriate, and that has nothing to do with why any of my ancestors came here. Thank heavens, such things may exist, but not the garbage definitions usually being used. But does truth exist? As teased out a bit at a time and tentatively by science? Well sure okay. But your definition of truth is ever shifting. So the Indian data would point to it was not exclusively old frail people at the end of life dying (it wouldn't be in a country that skews young, but it clearly shows that this can affect younger people). But then it gets switched to "well maybe they were fat" or something, as if fat was some moral issue that means they deserved to die.
But why did my relatives come here etc.? Well some fled drafts, although my dad was drafted in the U.S., worked in hospitals in wartime, and all he ever got out of it, and all he ever taught us out of it, was a powerful opposition to war. Go figure. They came due to famine, due to not wanting to be drafted in wars, due to wanting to escape a rigid class system (the irony is that there is now less social movement across classes than where they fled, but once upon a time there was more economic opportunity here than where they were, and so they came for it). So economics in many cases, I suspect that is true for the vast majority of immigrants.
rosarugosa
10-4-21, 12:30pm
Jeppy: I don't know why, but you seem to have somehow gotten the idea that we are a bunch of anti-vaxxers. I think we are pretty much all vaccinated, and you are the one who is now talking about not getting a flu shot to spite the governor. I do believe in vaccines, but I also believe that vaccinated people can still get covid, so I'm happy to hedge my bets with a mask for indoor public places. I presumably wouldn't get as sick as someone who wasn't vaccinated, but I would prefer not to get sick at all.
rosarugosa
10-4-21, 12:31pm
I went to buy some essential supplies this week - curbside as always as the merchant does not require or request masks. In fact, the outside of the building has been covered with very mask hostile posters for some time and the store ignored our state mask mandate when it was in effect.
the posters were gone. The doors and windows were open for ventilation. And the proprietor told me he lost a dear friend - healthy, 42, and fully vaccinated - to covid last week.
all I could do was say I was sorry.
It's so sad that it takes this sort of situation to bring some people to their senses.
Jeppy: I don't know why, but you seem to have somehow gotten the idea that we are a bunch of anti-vaxxers. I think we are pretty much all vaccinated, and you are the one who is now talking about not getting a flu shot to spite the governor. I do believe in vaccines, but I also believe that vaccinated people can still get covid, so I'm happy to hedge my bets with a mask for indoor public places. I presumably wouldn't get as sick as someone who wasn't vaccinated, but I would prefer not to get sick at all.
And you are welcome to wear a mask. I will not ridicule you, say why do you have a diaper on your face (as was said to me when I followed the mask mandate), etc.
The CDC eventually changed its direction to reflect the fact that if a mask stops covid particles going out it also stops them coming in, which is just common sense. So if you believe masks work, wear one if you are scared of covid to protect yourself, but don't expect me to.
I have some song lyrics for this - "I'll do me and you do you".
With colder weather I know homeless people like to congregate at the library and probably don't want to wear masks for hours on end there, so I thought they would be a good group to come to the Board of Health meeting and speak on behalf of my petition to repeal the mask mandate. Emailed the local homeless shelter but the staff there were not interested. I may yet go hang out around the library on a cold, rainy day and see if I can get some of these folks on board. Just because their social workers don't care about the issue doesn't mean they don't.
Teacher Terry
10-4-21, 12:52pm
I never get the flu vaccine because I only get it about once every 10 years and it’s really hit or miss on getting it right for whatever strain is going around. Colds and viruses in general are down probably because of masks. Asian countries have been wearing them for years in order not to catch crap. Unfortunately I have developed a bad cold and can’t go to California today to visit my friend.
mschrisgo2
10-4-21, 1:09pm
With colder weather I know homeless people like to congregate at the library and probably don't want to wear masks for hours on end there, so I thought they would be a good group to come to the Board of Health meeting and speak on behalf of my petition to repeal the mask mandate. Emailed the local homeless shelter but the staff there were not interested…
Why would the “staff” want to make homeless people more of a target than they already are? You know anyone who speaks at those meetings has to give their name for the record, right?
Why would the “staff” want to make homeless people more of a target than they already are? You know anyone who speaks at those meetings has to give their name for the record, right?
Not sure what you mean by a target - targeted by the virus? There has been a struggle to get the homeless vaccinated. My suggestion was that if the policy changes so vaccinated people are allowed to come into the library without a mask it will incentivize vaccination. Right now why get vaccinated when you are treated the same as an unvaccinated person?
ApatheticNoMore
10-4-21, 1:19pm
The odd thing is except for those who have their legitimate reasons, those who have lost someone(s) they are still grieving - grief has it's own time table it takes what it takes, lost a job and still haven't found another in one's niche despite overall strong job market, closed businesses, long covid) most vaccinated people in the U.S. are kind of mentally moving on from the pandemic. With scars perhaps, but still. Whereas anti-vaxxers (still seeking an alternate medicine) and those still upset they have to wear a mask to the supermarket, stay mired in it forever.
I have also noticed many public health officials, front-line medical workers, and first responders moving on to different jobs and professions, burned out from the pandemic and now the recent public misbehaviour by a small but significant portion of our population.
Several local organizations I have data on are down nearly 40% in staff as of last week, compared to 2 years ago.
rosarugosa
10-4-21, 1:57pm
The odd thing is except for those who have their legitimate reasons, those who have lost someone(s) they are still grieving - grief has it's own time table it takes what it takes, lost a job and still haven't found another in one's niche despite overall strong job market, closed businesses, long covid) most vaccinated people in the U.S. are kind of mentally moving on from the pandemic. With scars perhaps, but still. Whereas anti-vaxxers (still seeking an alternate medicine) and those still upset they have to wear a mask to the supermarket, stay mired in it forever.
Good point. I feel like I have moved on from it mentally to a large degree.
I have also noticed many public health officials, front-line medical workers, and first responders moving on to different jobs and professions, burned out from the pandemic and now the recent public misbehaviour by a small but significant portion of our population.
Several local organizations I have data on are down nearly 40% in staff as of last week, compared to 2 years ago.
Don't worry, those who still are in the public sector will get extra pay from the American Recovery Act, which those of us in the private sector won't although we too worked through the pandemic, dealt with trying to enforce unpopular policies, etc. My former manager almost got into two fist fights trying to get customers to wear masks because the government passed it but left it up to the businesses to enforce instead of providing police or other personnel to do so. No surprise he retired.
I wish businesses could just put a sign "Enter at your own risk, curbside service available". The mandates are stupid.
And while the government is working on giving these public sector employees extra money, they aren't even getting vaccinated. Only half the police officers in my city are vaccinated, firefighters (who also run the EMS) 75%. But yeah, they are the heroes.
ETA: I never harass the front line staff charged with enforcing mandates. I am going before the Board of Health who make the stupid decisions everyone else must follow.
This is how people respond to covid in the absence of an adequate social safety net including paid leave for those working for employers of any size, or self-employed:
https://www.atholdailynews.com/an-a1-THURSDAY-AtholCovidCasesHigh-42750121
Excerpts:
I’ve had a dozen people who got the (home) test and told me themselves, ‘It’s positive. I’m going to stay home in my own bedroom but I’m not going to go through contract tracing because I don’t want my (spouse) to stay home. We can’t afford that.’
contract tracing can’t trace the kids the parents are keeping home because they did a CVS test, and they don’t want to tell anybody.”
people are refusing to talk to the contract tracers and give out any information.”
Hamlett added that some people are buying a two-step test and using it incorrectly.
“In order for that test to work, you have to take one test and three days later take the second test,” she said. “The results are conclusive after both tests.
“So, people take that one test — it’s negative, they’re fine. They never do the second test.
Half of Vermont public schools have not had a single covid case this year. After all, this is the state with the best per capita vaccination rate in the country.
What is the response of public health authorities? Celebration? Oh no. We must start testing every child every day, never mind that the school nurses don't have the time. There must be some covid somewhere. If only we could find it!
ETA Source New England Cable News
catherine
10-6-21, 10:43am
Half of Vermont public schools have not had a single covid case this year. After all, this is the state with the best per capita vaccination rate in the country.
What is the response of public health authorities? Celebration? Oh no. We must start testing every child every day, never mind that the school nurses don't have the time. There must be some covid somewhere. If only we could find it!
ETA Source New England Cable News
You could argue that the reason we have had such a great record with low COVID cases and high vaccination is because of the outstanding leadership, strategies and tactics that have been put in place over the past 2 years. Phil Scott and his advisors earned a lot of credibility. He rightfully admits it will be a staffing nightmare, but I trust that if it's going to keep COVID from gaining ground, we should do it.
My seasonal next door neighbors here are a husband and wife team in the facilities department of one of the schools that have experienced a few cases, and it turned the school upside down. They are exhausted. The virus has caused problems of its own. Testing should at least have predictable challenges to overcome.
Like covid the flu can be tested for, is spread through the respiratory system, and kills quite a few mainly elderly or feeble people every year. Imagine how much our society would have been turned upside down if we had all these years treated it like covid - all the testing, the quarantining, the shutdowns, the mask and vaccine mandates and other restrictions. But we don't. And with vaccines available covid should also be treated as an endemic and not a pandemic disease, but I am afraid it never will be. Too many people have amassed too much power and too much self-importance for that.
But if covid does ever go away, watch and the public health authorities will start doing the same with the flu. The coercive models are already in place, and "even one death is too many".
I'm afraid this will be a permanent erosion of our liberties, vs letting people make their own decisions about the health precautions they want to take.
Teacher Terry
10-6-21, 12:44pm
Flu has killed nowhere near the number of people that Covid has.
Flu has killed nowhere near the number of people that Covid has.
Multiply flu's average annual deaths by the number of years it has been around to compare the toll of each.
A Colorado-based health system says it is denying organ transplants to patients not vaccinated against the coronavirus in “almost all situations,” citing studies that show these patients are much more likely to die if they get COVID-19.
The policy illustrates the growing costs of being unvaccinated and wades into deeply controversial territory — the use of immunization status to decide who gets limited medical care. The mere idea of prioritizing the vaccinated for rationed health resources has drawn intense backlash, as overwhelmingly unvaccinated COVID-19 patients push some hospitals to adopt “crisis standards of care,” in which health systems can prioritize patients for scarce resources based largely on their likelihood of survival.
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/hospital-system-says-it-will-deny-transplants-to-the-unvaccinated-in-almost-all-situations/
Teacher Terry
10-6-21, 6:10pm
Bae, I am not surprised because there’s always been strict rules for organ transplants. I know 2 people that have received them.
flowerseverywhere
10-6-21, 8:04pm
Here in Florida our cases are continuing to go down and ICU's emptying a little. Still way too full.
Our death rate is 2,600 per million people. 56,000 dead. Of course, many more were sick or have long covid or other side effects. Our surge was not until after vaccines were readily available so many Deaths were needless.
I'm sad so many people died and so many healthcare workers were forced to work so hard. I imagine the next big story will be lack of medical professionals. Our nursing homes in particular, as well hospitals are already very short staffed.
Teacher Terry
10-6-21, 9:26pm
Medical staff is getting burned out and I can’t even imagine watching huge numbers of people die. Probably a significant amount are experiencing ptsd from the situation.
My husband had a job in 1977 that was 24/7 for 6 months with no end in sight. We ended up moving 3700 miles away to get away from it. It is not sustainable no matter the money and he was making hourly more than the mayor.
This model for healthcare is not sustainable. Employees are burning out mentally and physically.
A friend who is a highly qualified RN changed from working in a large nursing home to taking care of patients one on one at their homes, mostly children.
flowerseverywhere
10-7-21, 6:00am
Nurses and doctors are being threatened and bullied as well by anti-Vax anti mask bullies and those who demand non proven drugs. The most unfortunate victims are the children who have become ill or lost parents. But increasingly lack of respect for already born children in the name of personal freedom to ignore science, cut off access for woman’s healthcare, cut so called entitlements and allow unregulated firearms have become a pattern. This is just another form of child neglect and abuse.
But since I cannot change the downward trajectory of respect for life, I’m focusing on doing all I can to help kids in foster care and poor women. It is too overwhelming otherwise.
Flowerseverywhere: Each of us has to find something to do to help our "spot" in this world and those around us. Thank you for helping.
flowerseverywhere
10-7-21, 9:51am
Thank you Sweetana.
Evidence based on real data: Masks have helped keep some children Covid free. I'm ignoring negative comments about masks. As a nurse you protect people as much as you can through simple measures like hand washing and sterile dressings and masks for instance. Contrary to some information being spread as the truth, surgeons and other health professionals don't have brain damage or rotting teeth due to mask wearing.
https://www.wesh.com/article/commissioner-nikki-fried-to-discuss-covid-19-school-data-during-news-conference/37893802
happystuff
10-7-21, 10:12am
But since I cannot change the downward trajectory of respect for life, I’m focusing on doing all I can to help kids in foster care and poor women. It is too overwhelming otherwise.
Thanks so much for your posts, flowerseverywhere. I appreciate the reminder that it's a good thing to help where and when possible - even in small ways - instead of hinder.
flowerseverywhere
10-7-21, 2:05pm
Thanks Happy Stuff. Almost half of Florida’s abuse and neglect claims are in age 0-4. Twenty thousand kids in foster care. Now we have kids who have lost parents to Covid. I just cannot imagine how awful it is going to be when Abortion is not available. Our rape statistics are about 8500 per year and DeSantis is eager to have a law similar to Texas with no allowance for incest or rape. Texas has over 13,000 rapes/year. And those are only the women who dare to come forward. It is a very risky thing to do unless you have a lot of support. That number of sex acts will result in unwanted pregnancies. Lots of someone’s have to help these unwanted and neglected kids.
it’s the only way I can keep my sanity now that the same arguments about masking, vaccines and women’s health care go on and on. Children are suffering and many go improperly cared for. Whatever god is out there cannot have planned this state of affairs.
No worries--Governor Abbott is going to do away with rape; you can rest easy. >:(
rosarugosa
10-7-21, 5:34pm
As far as Covid goes, I found out today that I'm eligible for a booster (in addition to DH and Mom), so will be working on getting those done.
Multiply flu's average annual deaths by the number of years it has been around to compare the toll of each.
I suppose you could say the same thing about cancer and heart disease. And it would be equally pointless.
I suppose you could say the same thing about cancer and heart disease. And it would be equally pointless.
If you want deaths per year why are all of covid's lumped together - 2019, 2020 and 2021? To make it seem worse than it is, that's why. Hype makes money for the media and others benefiting financially from covid.
So it was only 352,000 covid deaths in the US last year. And already 353,000 this year and it’s only early October. Woohoo! Not bad at all. And it included a lot of worthless old people whose deaths don’t matter to you. Yay! Let’s celebrate! Smh at your pathetic rationalizations yppej.
flowerseverywhere
10-7-21, 8:41pm
No worries--Governor Abbott is going to do away with rape; you can rest easy. >:(
Maybe they should start with the over 5,000 rape kits that have yet to be tested
https://www.nycsouthpaw.com/p/texas-still-has-thousands-of-untested
So it was only 352,000 covid deaths in the US last year. And already 353,000 this year and it’s only early October. Woohoo! Not bad at all. And it included a lot of worthless old people whose deaths don’t matter to you. Yay! Let’s celebrate! Smh at your pathetic rationalizations yppej.
As my mother says, "I've got to die of something". As my father says, "I'm not worried about covid."
Take it from two folks in the highest risk age group, whose immunity fades the fastest - it's time for life to get back to normal.
Teacher Terry
10-7-21, 9:48pm
142,000 children have lost a parent or other caretaker from Covid.
flowerseverywhere
10-8-21, 4:20am
142,000 children have lost a parent or other caretaker from Covid.
plus children who now have a parent with lingering health effects. More homelessness. More poverty. The devastating effect on children. In my state because of 55% vaccination rates, no mask or any kind of mandates and just plain ignorance has contributed to the sickness and death of children as well as adults. Nationally about 500 children have died of Covid. Young lives forever gone.
ironically in Florida people over 65 are highly vaccinated. Overflowing ICU’s and deaths during our recent spike were among people younger than 65.
When you look at excess death charts there was a short spike in January 2018 because of a particularly bad flu season. The excess Covid death spike has been unnecessarily continued due to lack of following guidelines and not being vaccinated. So many people lost that could have been avoided.
If despite having an eviction moratorium and making more on unemployment than when working a person still lands up homeless that person has some real issues.
For example, if you engage in criminal activity on the premises you can still be evicted despite the moratorium.
From scientists (the NIH no less) - there are many problems with wearing masks:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33475571/
Scroll down to see related articles with other problems besides mask fatigue.
Not to mention if you try to protect your children with masks, you run the risk of setting off crackpots yelling "child abuse" at you as you pick them up from school, as we saw on the news last night. I ask myself nearly every day "What is wrong with people?"
Not to mention if you try to protect your children with masks, you run the risk of setting off crackpots yelling "child abuse" at you as you pick them up from school, as we saw on the news last night. I ask myself nearly every day "What is wrong with people?"
Well one thing that sets people off is hypocrisy, such as the father who saw 1) his daughter coming out of school having to wear a mask while 2) the teachers were sitting gabbing in the teacher's lounge not wearing masks.
That case led to an assault which I don't condone but understand.
Here is another image of covid hypocrisy my brother told me about. The elites (in this case AOC) don't have to wear masks but their attendants the peons do.
https://images.app.goo.gl/pKPWn3g1zSumfa6C7
He told me her dress was so long two (masked) people had to walk behind her to hold up the train, but I wasn't able to find an image of that.
I had an interesting conversation the other day. The person had gotten covid last October and because his wife works for one of the companies that is making monoclonal antibody treatments he was able to get treated with them as soon as he tested positive (shortly after he had started having symptoms.) The treatment worked great. His symptoms lasted less than 2 days and 3 days after that he tested negative. But then in January he got covid a second time. Apparently the success of the first treatment meant that he didn't develop any level of long term immunity. He was again treated with the monoclonal antibodies, and again the treatment quickly resolved his infection. In April, when he was eligible, he got vaccinated.
rosarugosa
10-9-21, 5:50am
I am dismayed to hear that the Pfizer vaccine efficacy diminishes sharply over time, and that at this point I might only be at 20% efficacy. I feel like I've been living in a fool's paradise, feeling like I'm vaccinated when that is barely the case. Since they are still learning about the strength and duration of the vaccines, I definitely see masks as a good supplementary effort.
I saw on the news something I read about earlier in scientific articles - treating covid as an endemic rather than a pandemic. I really hope this idea gains traction.
RR I suppose it could be worse. Moderna which I got has now been pulled off the market in Scandinavia for some groups because it causes heart problems.
I saw on the news something I read about earlier in scientific articles - treating covid as an endemic rather than a pandemic. I really hope this idea gains traction.
.
You are fine with people dying so that you don’t have to put a small piece of cloth on your face. Unbelievable.
Rosa- not sure where you are hearing the 20% number from, this presentation shows a decline in the mRNA vaccines over time, but not that drastic.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-09-22/04-COVID-Link-Gelles-508.pdf
You are fine with people dying so that you don’t have to put a small piece of cloth on your face. Unbelievable.
You have pro-mask tunnel vision.
If vaccines rapidly decline in effectiveness then the way to protect people is to frequently boost the vulnerable and let everyone else catch the virus and get the stronger, better natural immunity that results. Boosting everyone all the time is impractical - look how many people we can't even get to take initial shots.
better natural immunity that results.
Nope. Incorrect. Unvaccinated people who had covid are twice as likely to be reinfected.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html
Nope. Incorrect. Unvaccinated people who had covid are twice as likely to be reinfected.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html
Apatheticnomore, I believe you have expressed the opposite. Do you have a countervailing study?
There is an Israeli study, that has not even gone through peer review, which attracted attention with a different conclusion.
rosarugosa
10-9-21, 11:05am
Thanks, Herbgeek.
rosarugosa
10-10-21, 5:53pm
DH and I got our Pfizer boosters today. I'm relieved!
happystuff
10-10-21, 5:58pm
Nice, rr. I'm glad you got the booster and peace of mind!
Saw on the news cases are down 40% from a few weeks ago but let's not celebrate. Cue the fear, doom and gloom. Be afraid, be very afraid. The sky is falling!
happystuff
10-10-21, 6:46pm
Found out that a custodian over at our elementary school tested positive. Going to be an interesting couple of days/weeks at work.
Found out that a custodian over at our elementary school tested positive. Going to be an interesting couple of days/weeks at work.
And if the person feels fine, and could still go to work, no problem. The endemic model is so much less disruptive than the pandemic model that enriches all the test kit companies by looking for problems where none exist.
happystuff
10-10-21, 7:09pm
And if the person feels fine, and could still go to work, no problem. The endemic model is so much less disruptive than the pandemic model that enriches all the test kit companies by looking for problems where none exist.
He does NOT feel fine and there are children at the school too young for vaccinations at this point in time. Some people CARE about others and want to limit their potential risk to others. No problem for him to stay away and work on his recover without endangering anyone else. I know it's not something you think about, but what a concept!
Maybe it's time to throw COVID parties. People can get together in a confined space with someone who is positive, and have a great time.
happystuff
10-10-21, 7:17pm
Maybe it's time to throw COVID parties. People can get together in a confined space with someone who is positive, and have a great time.
Isn't that grocery shopping without a mask?? ROFLOL. But what the heck - some folks will say - "I don't mask so don't care if I catch it OR pass it on!".
Not funny, just sad.
The entire country has been in high or substantial risk of transmission for a couple months now. Covid is everywhere. Testing, contact tracing, and quarantining are all closing the barn door after the horse has left the barn. It's a huge waste of resources - like trying to control the common cold or the flu. Not gonna happen.
happystuff
10-10-21, 7:21pm
The entire country has been in high or substantial risk of transmission for a couple months now. Covid is everywhere. Testing, contact tracing, and quarantining are all closing the barn door after the horse has left the barn. It's a huge waste of resources - like trying to control the common cold or the flu. Not gonna happen.
No reason not to do what one can to help both one's self and others.
No reason not to do what one can to help both one's self and others.
The time to help was when covid was discovered in Wuhan. We should have stopped all international travel like New Zealand did and at that point testing, contact tracing and quarantining would have worked. But instead we let people jet around the world and told them if they put any random piece of cloth over their faces it would be okay.
happystuff
10-10-21, 7:27pm
The time to help was when covid was discovered in Wuhan. We should have stopped all international travel like New Zealand did and at that point testing, contact tracing and quarantining would have worked. But instead we let people jet around the world and told them if they put any random piece of cloth over their faces it would be okay.
There is ALWAYS time to be a help instead of a hindrance.
There is ALWAYS time to be a help instead of a hindrance.
Covid is like HPV now. You need a vaccine because it's so widespread if you're sexually active you're going to get it, and it can pass through the skin beyond the confines of a condom, just like covid can spread around the gaps on the sides or top of a mask (or through it - those covid particles are small - smaller than the particles that cause things like black lung disease in miners who wear masks, or asbestos related illnesses in people who wear masks while working with asbestos). Vaccine, vaccine, vaccine.
But I get that you don't want to feel powerless. You want a piece of theater to make yourself feel better - go for it. Just don't impose it on me.
happystuff
10-10-21, 7:38pm
But I get that you don't want to feel powerless. You want a piece of theater to make yourself feel better - go for it. Just don't impose it on me.
More like I get that you are angry and selfish, and to support those feelings you need to strike out at anything that even hints at stepping beyond your own little self-circle and even the slightest inconvenience to yourself, or even thinking about helping others. Again, more prayers to you.
The biggest drops in cases are in places like Florida with no mask mandates. The virus is going to run its course. Masks don't stop it.
Ultimately it will evolve because vaccines won't stop it either.
You can live the rest of your life in fear of it, or you can figure if you get it you'll develop some natural immunity to it. Either way it doesn't matter to the virus.
happystuff
10-10-21, 7:49pm
The biggest drops in cases are in places like Florida with no mask mandates. The virus is going to run its course. Masks don't stop it.
Ultimately it will evolve because vaccines won't stop it either.
You can live the rest of your life in fear of it, or you can figure if you get it you'll develop some natural immunity to it. Either way it doesn't matter to the virus.
Yes, ultimately being the key here. I don't believe NOW is "ultimately".
No fear of the virus here on my part, but you seem to have more fear of a simple little mask!
And one thing you are right about - mask or not, catch it or not, get sick or not, pass it to others or not - the virus doesn't care. Fortunately, most people DO!
Not fear, but distaste and hatred, and not just of the mask but of an overbearing government imposing it.
happystuff
10-10-21, 7:55pm
Not fear, but distaste and hatred, and not just of the mask but of an overbearing government imposing it.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - whether you believe it or not - I truly hope you can find some peace and happiness.
Human hubris = thinking you can control the virus or any other aspect of nature.
I read in the AARP magazine today that with the permafrost melting long dormant viruses buried in it are emerging and becoming active again. Nature has lots of surprises in store for us. Hold on to your seats and don't get your panties in a bunch or wet them. If you expend all your fear and loathing on covid what will you do when the big one comes and the money the government kept printing to prop up the economy during the shutdown hysteria isn't good anymore?
Well maybe you could burn the wheelbarrows full of currency to keep warm.
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